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== NPOV: Is Venezuela actually functioning as a republic? ==

Some editors are arguing that it is superfluous information to state Venezuela is an authoritarian state in the infobox. I disagree because the sources directly tell us it is not a functioning republic and there are no free and fair elections. One of the sources which remains in place in the infobox even calls Venezuela an autocracy. So stating uncritically that it’s a federal republic is going against what the sources say. Nobody so far has challenged or removed these references, so it seems to me we are simply overriding them with editor analysis. If there are references out there that can attest to Venezuela holding fair elections, please provide them and let’s have that discussion. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 19:31, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
:It's related to the endless debate regarding the difference between ''de facto'' and ''de iure''. Venezuela in theory and paper is a federal nation, along with Mexico, Argentina or even the United States, but has historically always been centralized. The article's infobox should reflect its current political system, which doubtlessly affects the country, an authoritarian system that devolved from a competitive autocracy, as political scientists would say, which is something that has already been agreed upon in the past: [[Talk:Venezuela/Archive 5#Government]]. --[[User:NoonIcarus|NoonIcarus]] ([[User talk:NoonIcarus|talk]]) 22:36, 2 June 2023 (UTC)
::Agreed. For me following what political scientists say is a no-brainer. They are the topic experts. I don’t understand the desire to discard what political scientists say in favor of the pronouncements of governments. Those aren’t reliable sources and we shouldn’t be repeating their positions uncritically, especially when they are directly contradicted by political scientists. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 00:11, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
:In my view, this is a matter of placement not content. Concerns about political scientists' viewpoints being "discarded" are not germane. Viewpoints should be reflected in the body of the article, not the infobox. The government field in country infoboxes should reflect the form and structures of government without characterization - i.e., is the government unitary or federal? Is it a parliamentary system? How many legislative houses? And so forth. The country infobox should contain the hard facts. Characterizations ought to be described in the body where there is more room for explanation, attribution, etc [[User:JArthur1984|JArthur1984]] ([[User talk:JArthur1984|talk]]) 13:47, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
::Should be covered in the same manner as others.... in the lead in the info box and the body of the article.. [[Russia]], [[Belarus]] etc. Our purpose is to educate and lead our readers to sources that contain academic information. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 15:10, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
:::Ditto, and I'll drop also the example of [[Cuba]] in the meantime. Saying that a nation has a one-party system, for instance, or other characteristics, doesn't mean you can't explain if the government is based in a republic or a parliamentary system, and so on, as they aren't mutually exclusive. --[[User:NoonIcarus|NoonIcarus]] ([[User talk:NoonIcarus|talk]]) 16:03, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
::Again, why is it a “characterization” and a “viewpoint” to call it authoritarian but a “hard fact” to call it a federal republic? It is absolutely a fact that Venezuela has an authoritarian system of government and the denialism of this being a fact is puzzling. What you seem to not be getting is that authoritarianism ''is'' a “form and structure” of government as far as political scientists are concerned. We can’t just call it a federal presidential republic because that would be a false “form and structure” when the elections are in fact a sham process as there is no real federalism. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 21:11, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
:::I will quote and repeat my comment in the last discussion, because I think it cannot be stressed enough: {{tq|The United Nations, the International Fact Finding Mission in Venezuela, the Organization of American States, the Inter-American Court of Human Rights and the Inter-American Commission of Human Rights have repeatedly and for several years documented the lack of human rights, civil liberties, separation of powers and judiciary independence in Venezuela. We can change the sources if the community wishes to do so, but this can't be just swept under the rug.}} --[[User:NoonIcarus|NoonIcarus]] ([[User talk:NoonIcarus|talk]]) 21:31, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
::::Yes. Thank you. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 21:34, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
:"Republic" is rather a loose word; strictly, it just means a country without a monarch. It doesn't mean the country has elections, nor that they are free and fair. It certainly doesn't mean that the country isn't authoritarian, or a dictatorship. And having free and fair elections doesn't stop a country being authoritarian.
:[[User:MrDemeanour|MrDemeanour]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanour|talk]]) 11:42, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
::[[File:Democracy claims.svg|thumb|upright=1.4|Democracy's ''[[de jure]]'' status in the world as of 2022; only [[Saudi Arabia]], [[Oman]], the [[United Arab Emirates|UAE]], [[Qatar]], [[Brunei]], [[Afghanistan]], and the [[Vatican City|Vatican]] do not claim to be a democracy.]]
::A republic is a type of [[Western democracy]]....still think best we say what type of so called democracy they claim to be....as "most countries" claim they are a democracy. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 17:50, 4 June 2023 (UTC){{-}}
::A [[republic]] is a state where power is held by the people. That can come in many forms such as a representative system or a direct democracy, but is incompatible with a dictatorial state where the people have no say. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 20:44, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
:::[[illiberal democracy]]. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>-[[File:Maple Leaf (Pantone).svg|15px|link=User talk:Moxy]] 23:48, 4 June 2023 (UTC)
::::Sure, that is one term that describes a failed/failing nominally democratic state such as a republic. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 02:34, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
:::I don't agree. The Democratic Republic of North Korea is a republic. East Germany (the DDR) was a republic. Africa contains many authoritarian republics.
:::"Representation in a republic may or may not be freely elected by the general citizenry." [[Republic]]
:::The lede statement in that article, that "power is held by the public", is trite and unhelpful. It doesn't define "the public", and goes on to say that "representatives" might not be elected.
:::The only thing you can truly say about republics is that they don't have monarchs. That's true of all republics. That's the only reason the USA counts as a republic.
:::[[User:MrDemeanour|MrDemeanour]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanour|talk]]) 11:08, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
::::{{tq|North Korea is a republic}}. No, it really isn’t, it’s certainly not how academics talk about North Korea, and I don’t see how you expect to be taken seriously making such a statement. It is ''supposed to be'' a republic, and academics will say that, but they’ll also say it is in fact a hereditary dictatorship/absolute monarchy, which is a different system of government. You’d have us leave in one part of the academic information but omit this other, key, context. That is an NPOV issue. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 20:21, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
:::::As I said above, the only undisputed definition of a republic is a state that isn't a monarchy. Some peopler (especially those from USA?) conflate being a republic with being a democracy. Some more thoughtful americans concede that the USA isn't a democracy, instead it's a republic.
:::::I agree that the USA isn't a democracy, and that it is a republic. But that doesn't mean that other republics have to appear the same as the USA; that's incorrect.
:::::[[User:MrDemeanour|MrDemeanour]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanour|talk]]) 17:18, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
::::::I never said the USA isn’t a democracy, so please don’t “agree” with something I’ve never said. The USA has not even come up in this discussion until now. But the USA is a democracy, according to all actual academic research on the subject. Your opining about North Korea being a republic and America being an undemocratic nation has little basis in academic research and is not helpful to this discussion about Venezuela. [[User:25stargeneral|25stargeneral]] ([[User talk:25stargeneral|talk]]) 18:06, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:25stargeneral:|25stargeneral:]]
:::::::> so please don’t “agree” with something I’ve never said
:::::::I didn't agree with you; I was agreeing with "some more thoughtful americans".
:::::::It's arguable that North Korea is a really a monarchy (an institution that Wikipeda doesn't define very clearly), in which case it definitely isn't a republic. But if te country is in fact a monarchy, then presumably they have some legal or constitutional provision that makes that clear, e.g. that the monarchy is heritable. I am not aware of any such provision; as far as I'm aware, the Glorious Leader is supposed to be chosen by a committee.
:::::::Anyway, this article is about Venzuela; that's definitely not a monarchy, so it's a republic. [[User:MrDemeanour|MrDemeanour]] ([[User talk:MrDemeanour|talk]]) 10:50, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

== Request for Comment ==

Please see the following [[WP:RfC|Request for Comment]] at [[President of Venezuela]]:
* [[Talk:President of Venezuela#RfC: Is the presidency of Maduro currently disputed?|Is the presidency of Maduro ''currently'' disputed?]]
--[[User:David Tornheim|David Tornheim]] ([[User talk:David Tornheim|talk]]) 12:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)


== Discrepancy between infobox and religion section ==
== Discrepancy between infobox and religion section ==
Line 105: Line 65:
Flag: [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Bolivarian_Navy_of_Venezuela.svg]
Flag: [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Bolivarian_Navy_of_Venezuela.svg]
Source: [https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=845476480939408&set=pb.100064311924731.-2207520000] [[User:Felipe Fidelis Tobias|Felipe Fidelis Tobias]] ([[User talk:Felipe Fidelis Tobias|talk]]) 20:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Source: [https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=845476480939408&set=pb.100064311924731.-2207520000] [[User:Felipe Fidelis Tobias|Felipe Fidelis Tobias]] ([[User talk:Felipe Fidelis Tobias|talk]]) 20:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2024 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Venezuela|answered=yes}}
THe president of this country is Edmundo Gonzalez Urritia y la vice president is Maria Corina Machado [[User:Leonardoviverosm7|Leonardoviverosm7]] ([[User talk:Leonardoviverosm7|talk]]) 00:41, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[WP:RS|Reliable sources are needed]] to make this edit. Thus far, both Maduro and the opposition have declared election victory, and we will not call the election here on WIkipedia. <span style="font-family: Gill Sans MT, Arial, Helvetica; font-weight:140;">[[User:General Ization|<span style="color: #006633;">General <i>Ization</i></span>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:General Ization|<i style="color: #000666;">Talk </i>]] </sup> 00:50, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
::Currently Edmundo Gonzalez Urritia is listed as President on the Article. Please fix that, because no matter who the election winner is, the inauguration takes place on the 10th January of 2025 which makes Maduro the President of Venezuela until that date.
::[[2024 Venezuelan presidential election#:~:text=Presidential elections were held in Venezuela on 28 July 2024 to choose a president for a six-year term beginning on 10 January 2025.]] [[User:Rick Lock History|Rick Lock History]] ([[User talk:Rick Lock History|talk]]) 20:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

== Including 2024 election info in lede ==

@[[User:Dustfreeworld|Dustfreeworld]]

Per [[WP:LEDE]],

{{tq|As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs}}

Furthermore, {{tq|The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article}} - the 2024 election, while independently notable and sufficiently covered in its own article, does not belong in the lede. It should belong under the section on President Maduro. I don't believe that [[WP:PRESERVE]] is sufficient justification for keeping the election info in the lede as you have done. [[User:That Coptic Guy| — '''<span style="color:black">That</span> <span style="color:red">Coptic</span> <span style="color:black">Guy</span>'''<sup>ping me!</sup>]] ([[User talk:That Coptic Guy|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/That Coptic Guy|contribs]]) 13:07, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

:@User:That Coptic Guy
:Thank you for the ping. I’ve edited the lead section per your advice. It’s four paragraphs now.
:I agree with you that “The lead section should briefly <b>summarize the most important points</b> covered in an article”, and that’s why the election is now mentioned in the lead. I’ve also mentioned that in my previous edit summary (per [[WP:SS]] [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Summary_style#Lead_section]). And I agree with your addition of content to the Maduro section. Thanks. --[[User:Dustfreeworld|<span style="color: navy">'''Dustfreeworld'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Dustfreeworld|talk]]) 14:37, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2024 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Venezuela|answered=yes}}
Hi. The ‘president of Venezuela’ needs to be amended to show ‘Edmundo Gonzalez’. Sources can be found online and he has been recognised globally as the new president. Thank you! [[Special:Contributions/2.97.11.214|2.97.11.214]] ([[User talk:2.97.11.214|talk]]) 07:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> hasn't taken office yet [[User:Cannolis|Cannolis]] ([[User talk:Cannolis|talk]]) 16:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)

== Orphaned references in [[:Venezuela]] ==

I check pages listed in [[:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting]] to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for [[User:AnomieBOT/docs/OrphanReferenceFixer|orphaned references]] in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of [[:Venezuela]]'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for ''this'' article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

<b>Reference named "reuters29jul":</b><ul>
<li>From [[2024 Venezuelan presidential election]]: {{cite web |title=Leaders across Americas react to Venezuela election results |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/latin-american-leaders-react-venezuela-election-results-2024-07-29/ |website=Reuters |access-date=29 July 2024}}</li>
<li>From [[International reactions to the 2024 Venezuelan presidential election]]: {{cite web |date=29 July 2024 |title=Leaders across Americas react to Venezuela election results |url=https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/latin-american-leaders-react-venezuela-election-results-2024-07-29/ |access-date=29 July 2024 |website=Reuters}}</li>
</ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. <small>Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs.</small> [[User:AnomieBOT|AnomieBOT]][[User talk:AnomieBOT|<span style="color:#880">⚡</span>]] 17:01, 11 August 2024 (UTC)

== Cambio en denominación del tipo de gobierno ==

Venezuela es una república parlamentaria y no una dictadura autoritaria. Por mucho que desde fuera y parte de la oposición digan que es otra cosa lo cierto es que es un país con sus leyes y su constitución. Y es por esas normas por las que se rige. No se puede permitir semejante injerencia. [[Special:Contributions/41.111.219.82|41.111.219.82]] ([[User talk:41.111.219.82|talk]]) 09:53, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Revision as of 09:53, 2 September 2024

Former good article nomineeVenezuela was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
March 19, 2007Peer reviewReviewed
October 31, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on July 5, 2004, July 5, 2005, July 5, 2006, July 5, 2007, July 5, 2008, July 5, 2009, July 5, 2010, July 5, 2011, July 5, 2012, July 5, 2013, July 5, 2014, and July 5, 2016.
Current status: Former good article nominee

Discrepancy between infobox and religion section

The infobox provides percentages for religion that are as recent as 2020, whereas the section in the article on religion cites a source from 2011. There is a significant difference in the numbers (e.g. 92% Christian in 2020 vs 88% Christian in 2011) and the article should be updated to reflect that. BrilliantMinnow (talk) 16:08, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Country data advice

Please, need your advice at Template talk:Country data Venezuela#V. Thank you in advance! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. put'er there 05:21, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Change {Navy|Venezuela} and {Army|Venezuela}

Well, the editors said that this was a controversial edits, so how it's necessary a consensus to make this edit and i came here to show it. [1]

The first one is the Army flag: i made a svg based in an article in the army site talking about the flag: Flag: [2] Source: [3]

The second one is the Navy flag: i think is a good idea we change the {Navy|Venezuela} template because it uses the naval ensing and not the navy flag. Flag: [4] Source: [5] Felipe Fidelis Tobias (talk) 20:14, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 31 July 2024

THe president of this country is Edmundo Gonzalez Urritia y la vice president is Maria Corina Machado Leonardoviverosm7 (talk) 00:41, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Reliable sources are needed to make this edit. Thus far, both Maduro and the opposition have declared election victory, and we will not call the election here on WIkipedia. General Ization Talk 00:50, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Currently Edmundo Gonzalez Urritia is listed as President on the Article. Please fix that, because no matter who the election winner is, the inauguration takes place on the 10th January of 2025 which makes Maduro the President of Venezuela until that date.
2024 Venezuelan presidential election#:~:text=Presidential elections were held in Venezuela on 28 July 2024 to choose a president for a six-year term beginning on 10 January 2025. Rick Lock History (talk) 20:26, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Including 2024 election info in lede

@Dustfreeworld

Per WP:LEDE,

As a general rule of thumb, a lead section should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs

Furthermore, The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article - the 2024 election, while independently notable and sufficiently covered in its own article, does not belong in the lede. It should belong under the section on President Maduro. I don't believe that WP:PRESERVE is sufficient justification for keeping the election info in the lede as you have done. — That Coptic Guyping me! (talk) (contribs) 13:07, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@User:That Coptic Guy
Thank you for the ping. I’ve edited the lead section per your advice. It’s four paragraphs now.
I agree with you that “The lead section should briefly summarize the most important points covered in an article”, and that’s why the election is now mentioned in the lead. I’ve also mentioned that in my previous edit summary (per WP:SS [6]). And I agree with your addition of content to the Maduro section. Thanks. --Dustfreeworld (talk) 14:37, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 8 August 2024

Hi. The ‘president of Venezuela’ needs to be amended to show ‘Edmundo Gonzalez’. Sources can be found online and he has been recognised globally as the new president. Thank you! 2.97.11.214 (talk) 07:24, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: hasn't taken office yet Cannolis (talk) 16:54, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Venezuela

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Venezuela's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "reuters29jul":

  • From 2024 Venezuelan presidential election: "Leaders across Americas react to Venezuela election results". Reuters. Retrieved 29 July 2024.
  • From International reactions to the 2024 Venezuelan presidential election: "Leaders across Americas react to Venezuela election results". Reuters. 29 July 2024. Retrieved 29 July 2024.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. Feel free to remove this comment after fixing the refs. AnomieBOT⚡ 17:01, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cambio en denominación del tipo de gobierno

Venezuela es una república parlamentaria y no una dictadura autoritaria. Por mucho que desde fuera y parte de la oposición digan que es otra cosa lo cierto es que es un país con sus leyes y su constitución. Y es por esas normas por las que se rige. No se puede permitir semejante injerencia. 41.111.219.82 (talk) 09:53, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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