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GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Gog the Mild (talk · contribs) 16:08, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria

Good Article Status - Review Criteria

Further information: WP:WIAGA

A good article is—

Well-written:

(a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and

(b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.^[1]

Verifiable with no original research:

(a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

(b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);^[2]

(c) it contains no original research; and

(d) it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.

Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;^[3] and

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

^[4]

Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

^[5]

(a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and

(b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.^[6]

Review

Well-written:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (prose)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(b) (MoS)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Verifiable with no original research:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (references)	A formidably solid set of sources.	Pass
(b) (citations to reliable sources)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(c) (original research)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Pass
(d) (copyvio and plagiarism)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Pass

Broad in its coverage:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (major aspects)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined
(b) (focused)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Undetermined

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.

Notes	Result
The reviewer has no notes here.	Pass

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

Notes	Result
The reviewer has no notes here.	Pass

Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:

Criteria	Notes	Result
(a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales)	The reviewer has no notes here.	Pass
(b) (appropriate use with suitable captions)	Good use of images. Very good use of maps.	Pass

Result

Result	Notes
Undetermined	The reviewer has no notes here.

Discussion

References.

A lot of references do not have a publisher location. For information only at B class.
- During FA source review of Winter War, I got the following comment: "General: There is inconsistency in showing publisher locations in the book sources. Either show all, or none." So based on that I could remove all of them, but since it's still "only" a GAN, I didn't do anything about them.
For references 17 and 84 do you have page numbers?
- For 17, nope. But it's quite an uncontroversial claim only about the name of the war in Russian (which a Russian user also confirmed and sounds very plausible). 84 is already a short chapter in the book, so kinda like a page range (and a link to the chapter).
Ref 73 should be pp., not p..
- Fixed.
In the section "Finnish advance in Karelia" two paragraphs do not end in a reference. Referencing is very dense in this section, but if you could cite them directly it would let me give them an easy tick.
- Ah, apparently just mistakes in para breaks. I united the paragraphs appropriately again.

Captions.

Whilst better editors than I may disagree, in the reindeer image, is it relevant that he is at an armoury? More pertinently "along the snow" is odd; how about "in snow conditions" or similar?

Gog the Mild (talk) 17:29, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

- Agree, fixed.

Prose.

"or cut the Kirov (Murmansk) Railway, a way point for lend-lease equipment to the USSR." A railway cannot be a "way point", by definition it has to be a point; ie a place. Possibly replace way point with "transit route"?
- Very true, amended.
"The Baltic governments acquiesced to these demands and signed respective agreements in September and October." Whilst grammatically correct, this reads oddly. Do you have objections to deleting the "respective"?
- No objections at all. :-) Deleted.
"numbered around 450,000 soldiers in 18 divisions and 40 separate battalions in the Finnish region." Instead of "separate", it should be "independent".
- Amended.
"During the Interim Peace, Soviet military had relaid operational plans to conquer Finland". Should be "...the Soviet Military..."
- Amended.
"Although it outnumbered the Kriegsmarine, the fleet lost all but one of its naval bases and was mostly inactive for the remainder of the war." This doesn't really work as a sentence. Probably because rather than stick to the OoB you include operational details. I would suggest moving the latter to a later section.
After the Finnish OoB you write a bit about Finnish plans and intelligence, mixed in with the German OoB. It may be better to pull those out as a separate short section.
"Initial operations" seems to go into undue detail, eg down to the name of the ship observing the exact timing of a raid by seven aircraft, whilst elsewhere corps size offensive operations receive half a sentence or less.
"23 Soviet bombers were lost in this strike while the Finnish forces lost none." I am not sure what the Finnish forces (the Finnish airforce?) lost none of: bombers? Fighters? Aircraft?
"By 16 July, VI Corps had reached the northern shore of Lake Ladoga, dividing the Soviet 7th Army which had been tasked with defending it." What does the "it" at the end of this sentence refer to?

Focus

All three "Background" sections seem overlong to me. For example, in what way are the Rapid Settlement Act or the "divisive White Guard tradition" relevant to the Continuation War? Does the long Trotter quote add anything to the excellent prose summary? (If it doesn't, why say it again?) Gog the Mild (talk) 19:13, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication.

WW2 is duplicated within the lead.
Petsamo is dup-linked. Ditto: Murmansk and Porkkala Peninsula.
There is no need to keep linking Russian. Ditto for Finnish.

Infobox.

Really good infobox, but I struggle to understand what "(e.g. partisan attacks)" means. Does this relate to the "Not including civilian casualties" immediately above? If so does it mean casualties among the partisans, they being counted as partisans, or civilian deaths caused by partisans, in which case why single these out?
Personally I would delete "(e.g. Seige of Leningrad)" as I think that would improve clarity. But feel free to leave it in, it is not a fail issue. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:39, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Coverage

I would have expected a little more detail on how important the Kirov Railway was under "Operation Silver Fox in Lapland". There is information you could use under Lend-Lease. Eg, relating to US aid: "Some 3,964,000 tons of goods were shipped by the Arctic route; 7% was lost, while 93% arrived safely. This constituted some 23% of the total aid to the USSR during the war." There is separate information on British lend lease. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:55, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Additional notes

^ Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage or subpages of the guides listed, is not required for good articles.
^ Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.
^ This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.
^ Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of unconstructive editing should be placed on hold.
^ Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.
^ The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.

Gog the Mild (talk) 16:16, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Gog the Mild: Thx a lot for the review! I'll start fixing the article on Tuesday when I get back from travels. Manelolo (talk) 09:46, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Manelolo. Longer articles can sometimes sit in the GAN queue for a while. Especially if they are on off-beat topics and have a fair bit of work needed. And I thought that I would find it rewarding assessing this topic.

In case you are getting your hopes up, the comments above just my first, more or less random, observations. I am sure that there will me many more - sorry - as I work through the article. That said, of the 12 ticks needed the article already has 6. Picking up 2b should be easy - see my notes on referencing above; and I will tick stable as soon as I am sure that the fuss from Winter War being on the main page has died away. Gog the Mild (talk) 12:25, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have now done a fairly detailed review down to the end of Initial operations. I think that this gives you a fair bit to come back at me over, so I will pause there for now. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:57, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage or subpages of the guides listed, is not required for good articles.

[2] Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.

[3] This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.

[4] Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of unconstructive editing should be placed on hold.

[5] Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.

[6] The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

@@ Line 125: / Line 125: @@
 Prose.
 *"or cut the Kirov (Murmansk) Railway, a way point for [[Lend-Lease|lend-lease]] equipment to the USSR." A railway cannot be a "way point", by definition it has to be a point; ie a place. Possibly replace way point with "transit route"?
+** Very true, amended.
 *"The Baltic governments [[Background of the occupation and annexation of the Baltic states|acquiesced to these demands]] and signed respective agreements in September and October." Whilst grammatically correct, this reads oddly. Do you have objections to deleting the "respective"?
+** No objections at all. :-) Deleted.
 *"numbered around 450,000 soldiers in 18 divisions and 40 separate battalions in the Finnish region." Instead of "separate", it should be "independent".
+** Amended.
 *"During the Interim Peace, Soviet military had relaid operational plans to conquer Finland". Should be "...the Soviet Military..."
+** Amended.
 *"Although it outnumbered the ''[[Kriegsmarine]]'', the fleet lost all but one of its naval bases and was mostly inactive for the remainder of the war." This doesn't really work as a sentence. Probably because rather than stick to the OoB you include operational details. I would suggest moving the latter to a later section.
 *After the Finnish OoB you write a bit about Finnish plans and intelligence, mixed in with the German OoB. It may be better to pull those out as a separate short section.