Talk:Justice Society of America

Division of history

I think it would be a good idea to divide the history up into Golden Age, Silver Age, Modern Pre-Crisis and Modern Post-Crisis sections, and list the new members in each era as a subsection in each section. The JSA actually divides up fairly well this way (particularly since their post-Crisis history is such a mess). It would also facilitate expanding on some individual members at the appropriate points. Comments? —mhr 06:41, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

It sounds like a good idea to me. —Paul A 06:46, 12 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Done! Sadly, Wikipedia decided to log me out between when I started editing and when I committed my changes, so my name doesn't appear in the log. sigh

—mhr 03:43, 17 Sep 2003 (UTC)

should Ma Hunkel and Jesse Quick be members too? {{Brian Boru is awesome

No because they weren't. —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 21:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

What about the new Crimson Avenger? She was a member during the "Stealing Thunder" storyline and had been presumably working with them for weeks. Granted, this was an ad hoc JSA lineup and might not count as the "real" JSA but it's worth considering at least. -- Rajah1 (talk|contribs) 04:33, July 1 2006

Hmm. Since no one ever responded to that question, I'm guessing everyone considers that an unofficial membership? As far as I'm concerned, during those months of the Ultra-Humanite's rule, that WAS the JSA and the Crimson was a member. But I guess I'm alone in my principles there. ;) Rajah1 (talk|contribs) 01:38, November 19, 2006

All-Star Western

"The team was popular throughout the 1940s, but after superheroes fell out of favor, its series All-Star Comics became All-Star Western in 1951, ceasing the team’s adventures."

Would anyone object to changing "All-Star Western" to "All-Star Western" or is there a reason why we're linking to a generic western genre wikipedia page when we could be linking to a stub that describes the actual comic book after the JSA strip was abandoned?

ZachsMind 13:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

When it comes to such changes, you don't have to ask or warn about it. Make the edit, write a summary and this is it. Regards —Lesfer ^(talk/@) 14:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Collected Addition 10 -- "Black Vengeance"?

I think "Black Vengeance" is the tenth collected addition, and not "Mixed Signals." I changed it accordinlgy, someone correct me if i'm wrong though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.1.139 (talk • contribs)

Wonder Woman

The text states that Wonder Woman was not a member of the JSA in the post-Crisis golden age, yet the picture has her in it. Anyone care to offer an explanation? --- Rogsheng 16:56, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Diana was not. The same cannot be stated about Hippolyta -- at least until DC's official word. —Lesfer ^(t/c/@) 19:53, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Notable Appearances

The two sections with this in the header need to be changed to a NPOV format. Ideas? CovenantD 06:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Some clean-up

I understand if someone complains about any of my recent editing, but I would like objections to be raised here first before reverting the page. The abundancy of images was unnecessary, and showed nothing actually important, besides being pretty pictures. I added the much needed titleboxes and removed the members section because all of that info is in the members article, and that's exactly what we have it for. Kusonaga 11:05, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Am I doing this right? ;) - Mistakenly forgot to sign in the other day when editing the "other appearances" section - and someone deleted my edit. My edit concerned "Sandman Mystery Theatre" which I had denoted as not strictly being DCU continuity - certainly a few aspects of it have been incorporated, but still, most notably, Sandy Hawkins is just "fictional" within that universe, among other things that preclude it being anything other than "Vertigo" continuity, so I really do feel my brief addendum should stay. Thanks. JohnM.

Vertigo and DC share the same continuity. How does Sandman Mystery Theatre not fit? --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 19:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

They don't quite share the same continuity. They reference each other from time to time, but both are perfectly able to furrow their own paths. Vertigo editorial is very protective of the characters under its remit and usually are not concerned with syncing up with the DCU. In the case of SMT, it retcons away Sandy and Sandman's Kirby jumpsuit. However I think other aspects of the series have been referenced in main DCU titles like Starman. WesleyDodds 01:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's true. Superboy may have punched 1940s New York in the face, though. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 09:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the thing I hate most about Infinite Crisis is I have to use the phrase "So Superboy-Prime punched time . . ." in casual conversation with my friends about comic books. God, I hate you, Judd Winick. Anyways, like The Golden Age SMT introduced concepts that later writers picked up on and that made their way into canon. But unless it's mentioned in the pages of JSA or Starman or the like we probably shouldn't hold to it. WesleyDodds 10:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Fine by me. I always take Golden Age to be continuity anyway. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 14:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Justice League Adventures #20

I felt it noteworthy to list this, because it is in animated continuity. Would other versions be more appropriate to title it as?.

I disagree that an extension of the animated continuity is noteworthy enough to be included, especially in such detail. What makes it more noteworthy than the years of appearances in Justice League of America, which are only superficially covered (and actually reflected some major changes for the team)? Recent does not equal notable. CovenantD 01:56, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

If you've read other comic pages, you'll see that many characters/teams have Other Versions listed, so why is my edit any different? Also, why erase the TPB lists? Last time I checked, TPBs are allowed.

The notablity you're asking for, this page simply pays homage to various aspects of the DC Comics (Mainstream or Alternate) 71.115.231.16 05:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It's different than some of the others (not all of which are appropriate either) because of the 65+ year history of the JSA. The larger the topic, the more of an overview the article becomes and the fewer details it can accomodate. A single cameo appearance that has no profound impact on the team should not be given six lines in the article. At that rate, the Silver Age/Justice League section would be over five times the size it is now, and I won't even calculate what length the section on the regular series would be - ridiculous sums it up adequately. It's all about perspective, the same issue with the Kid Lantern edit to Wally West (yes, I recognize the IP now), another single-story edit that was given undue space. It could be argued that giving so much space to single stories that had no profound effect is biased and caters to fans rather than being encyclopedic. Same thing with the TPB list - they are all basically reprints for the fanbase and not notable in their own right. If it were a best-selling version or has some relevance besides the collectors aspects then that would be noteworthy, but a list simply is not. (Another editor has recently been adding TPB lists to many different articles, which is why it's on my radar now. I'll probably be bringing it up on the Comics Project talk page since I don't recall any overall discussion about them in articles.) Don't get me wrong, I'm an avid comic book reader myself and have been for over 30 years - I simply think the articles need to be balanced in terms of their overall impact and importance, and neither of these contributions do that. CovenantD 05:53, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Should there be a Trade Paperback section by now? With the follwoing info:

• The issues collected.
• Any features (interviews, sketches).
• Whether it's out of print or is going back into print (like the recent Armor Wars storyline).

It seems Wikipedia is long overdue for one now. 71.115.231.16 06:03, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

That just seems like a catalog listing. Wikipedia is not that. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 10:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect footers(?)

At the end of the article, the boxes (such as Members and Villians) link to Justice League information, not Justice Society. Vlouie01 17:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

It's meant that way, since it's a box about the League, not the Society. Kusonaga 18:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Comic series infobox

I apologize if I get any terminology wrong here. I am confused by the box that appears top right of the article and outlines various monthly series the JSA has had. First off the dates and # of issues don't match up. I do understand that problem: one list is overlooking the mini-series and one list is considering JSA to be "Volume 2". I didn't correct it myself; I leave it to people more involved with this page. Ok the recent comics are:

• Justice Society of America (volume 1) 8 issues (miniseries)
• Justice Society of America (volume 2) 10 issues (ongoing) <--- this was the one that was cancelled
• JSA 87 issues (ongoing) <--- cancelled in order to reboot & retitle
• Justice Society of America (volume 3) 2+ issues (ongoing)

Here's the problem I see: why include the 8-issue mini but not the 4-issue "America vs. the Justice Society," the "Last Days of the Justice Society" one-shot, or the ongoing 21+ issues of "JSA Classified"? Furthermore it seems somewhat misleading to list books that were titled "Justice Society" but exclude "All-Star Comics" which is historically much more significant. STFmaryville 09:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Only the series that bear the exact title "Justice Society of America" are being counted in the infobox. If we were to include "America vs. the Justice Society," "Last Days," and every other spinoff miniseries or ongoing, the box would get very unwieldly. However, I agree with you about All Star Comics being significant and about the revert war that seems to be going on between people who are listing "JSA" separately and those who consider it Vol. 2 (or 3). What if we were to include a disclaimer of "Other Series: " before the issues and dates of publication for All Star and JSA in the box? As past ongoing titles for the team, they seem like they should be listed and it would avoid further confusion. Rajah1 08:02, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The team's various headquarters through the years

Perhaps there should be a subsection devoted to their headquarters from New York City to Civic City (is it really in Pennsylvania, as I recall reading?) to the brief satellite HQ they had in 1951 to Gotham City again and then New York City. If I'm recalling correctly, in Justice Society of America vol. 2, their NYC headquarters was the former townhouse of Wesley Dodds, which was then destroyed in the Virtue and Vice graphic novel. That townhouse was said to be in Morningside Heights (the area in Manhattan around Columbia University) and the rebuilt headquarters was built with funds from then-President Lex Luthor on the same site.
However, in Justice Society of America (vol. 3) #2, their headquarters is now in Battery Park, at the southern tip of Manhattan (and about six miles south of Morningside Heights). When was it moved? RahadyanS 03:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

New infobox?

In "Comic series infobox" above, I proposed a version of the infobox that would include All Star Comics and JSA, so as to avoid confusion and include all the team's ongoings. The box would look something like this [Edited: Box removed so as not to clutter the talk page]. What does everyone think? Rajah1 08:16, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Since I've gotten no response, I'm guessing no one supports the change of infobox idea? I thought it might clear up the confusion of the various Justice Society volumes vs. JSA. But if no one likes it, I'll remove it from the talk page (as I realize that I takes up a lot of room). If anyone does support the idea however, please let me know. Rajah1 00:11, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

JSA and Marvel Family

Not related. For all the reasons I've already explained: The team is not related to Mary, Marvel Jr., Hoppy or the Lieutenants Marvel. If we follow this line of action, we would end up adding the Amazons in there due to Wonder Woman's membership. Nonsense. 201.53.30.159 13:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Template:Justice Society of America

Should we add the info from the template on other articles like All-Satr Squadron?? Brian Boru is awesome 20:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Why does Wildcat (Tom Bronson) keep getting deleted from the team's roster?

On the last page of Justice League of America #8, there is a large list of everyone currently in the Justice Society. Everyone on that list is on the roster on this page except for Wildcat (Tom Bronson), Power Girl (who is pictured right next to the list), and Starman (who is listed above as being part of the Legion of Superheroes). I know there was no official initiation/introduction ceremony for Bronson in the pages of Justice Society of America, but there weren't official ceremonies for Cyclone, Starman (who we know is on the team because Mister Terrific refers to him as "our newest member"), or Citizen Steel, either. That roster on the last page seems to be as official as it could be with the large "Justice Society of America" slogan above it. 67.128.230.34 03:51, 21 April 2007 (UTC)Luke

2¢... more or less.

At this point I'd argue that the role call list from Justice League of America #8 is solid enough for the character to be included. The end of Justice Society of America #4 though wasn't. That left the point very gray, with it not being clear if Ted's actions were "bringing the kid to visit" or "Welcome to the club kid."

It maybe that some editors are waiting for one of the characters to specifically address the point. Whether the information is presented in what amounts to story narration or not.

(Side note: The only thing at this point that puts Citizen Steel in the member's list would be statements from Johns. That's also a gray area since planed story elements can change from the point where it's presented to the press, and when the book actually hits the shelf.)

- J Greb 06:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

That's a pretty good point. So Johns would talk about Citizen Steel and not even mention a new Wildcat? I could also cite the cover to JSoA vol. 2 #1. The roster was presented one by one by Johns in newsarama and other websites. —Lesfer ^(t/c/@) 13:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

That's looking at three different things:

1. Interviews that discus future story elements and intended developments. As per the various "Crystal ball" point in the general and Project guidelines, this is something that can change. At the point where Johns' interview referenced Wildcat (Tom) and Haywood (Citizen Steel), an argument can be made for the inclusion of that information, properly tagged, in the article. But not in the infobox, or the "List of members" article.
2. Covers. They can be apocryphal. IIUC that's one of the general, unwritten guidelines that cropped up with the "Initiative" cover appearance block that went into scores of articles a few weeks back. The inference was that the text was a "cover appearance=member" statement, which was decried as jumping to conclusions. The cover, while it may be notable for stub characters (ie "Dog Boy sees use on a cover 20 years after his only appearance in a three issue arc.") it isn't guaranteed to reflect the contents of the book.
3. Elements used in the actual story. This covers a lot, everything from multi-panel induction ceremonies to character comments to elements of the narration. The roster lists fall into the last type of element. Just like the dialogue of the chairpersons' call to arms fits the second. The dialogue is a bit open, "Bring everyone" could mean "... on the team." or "...in the building." The rosters are less open. They are inclusive and separated by team. They also lack anything identifying characters as "guest of" or "provisional member", just "here are the teams".

The last makes a strong argument for the inclusion of the new Wildcat as a JSA member, both here and in the "List", as well as Geo-Force as a JLA member. - J Greb 16:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, then. If you guys think so, go ahead and add them both. I won't remove it anymore. Regards —Lesfer ^(t/c/@) 22:25, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Wow! Consensus. Well done! Are you sure you don't wan't to edit war over this endlessly? But seriously, it's nice to see this happen once in a while. Cheers, GentlemanGhost 08:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

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