Talk:Titanic

An event in this article is a April 14 selected anniversary (may be in HTML comment)

Please note that the coordinates in this article need fixing as:

• nmhnmn

n,

Not much of an objection. Given value is properly cited and very close to this source: [1]. Removing geodata-check tag. Gregbaker (talk) 07:59, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

hi == Please edit ==

Would some one with an account please correct the continous mispellings of the word artifact in the section about the rediscovery of the wreck. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.217.3.220 (talk) 23:53, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Artefacts is the correct spelling in British English, see WP:ENGVAR. Benea (talk) 00:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

As well as colour and harbour. Shinerunner (talk) 00:35, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

And continuous :) WhaleyTim (talk) 17:42, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, then let's change it to proper American English.  :) Bill the Cat 7 (talk) 07:43, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

These links, Wikipedia:Perennial proposals#Enforce American or British spelling, Wikipedia:Manual of Style#National varieties of English and Wikipedia:Standardize spellings/Archive, might help answer your question. Personally, I live on the border with Canada and seeing British spelling in an article doesn't faze me. Shinerunner (talk) 10:15, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Artefact & artifact are both correct alternative orthographies ( spellings ) used throughout the world. It has nothing to do with specific countries. I hope you're not afraid of ketchup versus catsup ! ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.209.62.159 (talk) 13:43, 13 September 2009 (GMT)

Contradiction?

I was reading this article with great interest. The detail of this article is brilliant. I was so engrosed in reading this that I managed to spot a slight contradiction. In the section Maiden Voyage, it says that there were 2,240 souls aboard whereas in the table in the section Survivors, victims and statistics it says there were 2,223. I'm assuming the second figure is correct but as my knowledge of the Titanic is limited I thought i would mention it on here instead yettie0711 (talk) 15:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

The figure of 2,223 comes from the U.S board of enquiry, compiled from the crew muster and passenger lists. The British enquiry, using the same information, arrived at a total of 2,201. 2,240 isn't strongly referenced and does seem wrong. Could definitely do with a bit of work. --Old Moonraker (talk) 16:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

A previous, archived discussion here. --Old Moonraker (talk) 10:58, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

National flag

The flag icon has been missing from the infobox for a while, but has just been reinstated. At the time of the maiden voyage the Blue Ensign was flown, and not as now shown. AFAIK it was the only version ever used. Earlier discussion now archived, here. --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Changed, with ref. --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:46, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

That's fine, I just thought it looked odd with the flag of the company showing and no national flag. Happens I picked the wrong one. Mjroots (talk) 07:54, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for reinstating it in the first place.--Old Moonraker (talk) 11:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Why can't I edit some the RMS Titanic article?

It doesn't show the edit button. How come? I wanna add some infos. Even though I log in I can't edit the RMS Titanic article. here. --Japee (talk) 06:29, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Reply on user's talk page. --Old Moonraker (talk) 11:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

please change "adverse weather conditions" under causes section.

Under the heading "adverse weather conditions" you have "The weather conditions for the Atlantic at the time of the collision were unusual because there was a flat calm sea, without wind or swell. In addition, it was a moonless night. Under normal sea conditions in the area of the collision, waves would have broken over the base of an iceberg, assisting in the location of icebergs even on a moonless night.", which makes it clear that the conditions were only adverse in the sense of being too calm. Please change the section title to "adverse (overly calm) weather conditions" or something similiar. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/adverse+weather —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.234.207.120 (talk) 11:41, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

The use of the term "adverse weather conditions" is questionable because it is somewhat misleading. According to the evidence given during the British Inquiry, those responsible for the navigation of the ship were well aware of the calm conditions, for several hours before the collision. They also knew they were approaching an area in which ice had been reported. (Second officer Lightoller's testimony at the British Inquiry.) In other words, there were reasons to proceed with caution. Their failure to proceed with caution is one of the Titanic mysteries which has never been adequately explained.

During the Inquiry, there were several witnesses who attempted to justify the practice of full speed navigation in ice conditions by claiming that dangerous icebergs could always be identified, in darkness, at distances of about one to two miles. However, there was hardly any cross examination of those witnesses with regard to specific details of the iceberg sizes or shapes - nor of the techniques they used to measure the actual distances of the icebergs they claimed to have sighted at night. (How did they estimate their distance off, in darkness, when they couldn't know the size of the berg they were observing?). During the Inquiry, Captain Rostron of the Carpathia was one of those who claimed to be able to see icebergs at night. However, while in the rescue area, he stated that he was unable to see one of the larger bergs, (only about a quarter of a mile away), until morning twilight had begun. He could offer no explanation for that and the Inquiry did not question him further on the subject. Norloch (talk) 10:02, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Incorrect Engine specification?

In the article under the section "Construction" one can read the following: - "She was equipped with two reciprocating four-cylinder, triple-expansion, inverted steam engines "

My first reaction to this was, can they really have been inverted? After some research on the internet I have found no source saying that and from the look on pictures it is clear that the engines were not inverted in any sence of the word. So in what way do editors of this Wiki-article mean that the engines were inverted? Please explain or edit the text for me.
http://titanic-model.com/articles/tech/TechFeatureFeb2006.htm
JasonCW 21:45, 1 September 2009 (CET)

No, I can't see any justification for this. As a confirmed user, be WP:BOLD! --Old Moonraker (talk) 20:36, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

For some reason I got the impression that I could not edit the article... I was wrong! JasonCW 23:12, 1 September 2009 (CET)

A ship is not a female

This article refers to the Titanic as a 'she'. I may not be a native English speaker, but I know objects cannot be referred to as males or females, and Wikipedia isn't supposed to be written from a sea farer's point of view, no matter how much they see their ship as a female. # Ido50 (talk to me), at 11:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

There is a long tradition, and not just among seafarers, of referring to ships as "she." Never "he" and rarely "it". It shouldn't be a problem. Rumiton (talk) 10:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not a problem, it just looks ridiculous. # Ido50 (talk to me), at 11:30, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Ships always have been referred to as she. The Titanic was a famous ship. She struck an iceberg during her maiden voyage ( note the use of maiden ! ). We all know what happened to her next : she sank & most of her crew & passengers drowned. She is still famous. Her tragedy still haunts us. Countries are also often personified. And cars ( Come on, Bessy ! ) --  :) 76.209.227.99 (talk)

Both "She" and "It" may be used, but their usage should be consistent per WP:SHE4SHIPS. In the case of Titanic, "She" is used. I've heard that "He" is used in Russia, but I can't back that up. --WillMcC (talk) 00:06, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Protection for this article?

OMG administrators shall semi-protect the RMS Titanic article because there were too many vandalisms committed by IP addresses/anonymous users. (Japee (talk) 10:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

New Titanic?

Shortly after the film "Titanic", there were at least a dozen people who claimed they were going to build a new replica of the Titanic. A few said they would be ready for the 100th anniversary of the sinking (2012). Are any of these people still pursuing it? If so, please add a URL. If not, maybe a word or two about how these efforts failed. 74.100.48.167 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:15, 14 September 2009 (UTC).

The Titanic was built with fairly basic accomodation and facilities for the majority of the passengers and crew. The 'luxurious' aspects of the ship were only available to a relatively small number of first class passengers. It would be extremely difficult to build an exact replica which complied with modern construction standards and modern passenger expectations. I think that a replica would just be a sort of 'pastiche' cruise ship - pretending to be the Titanic - but not very convincingly! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.232.146 (talk) 10:23, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

From what I've read there are currently no active plans to build a replacement. One main reason stated is the design of the original Titanic wouldn't pass current safety guidelines. There would have to be considerable modifications so that a replacement ship would look different. Another reason is a cruise line is in the business to make money and with the exception of some diehard enthusiasts there probably wouldn't be enough interest to make it a financially viable pursuit. Shinerunner (talk) 11:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

There are companies that offer cruises on replicas of 19th century schooners. People pay big money for not much in the way of amenities. I think the same would be true for a Titanic replica, even with the necessary safety changes. What's stopping someone from building a replica for use as a museum? It would be docked permanently (like the Queen Mary in Long Beach, California). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.100.45.171 (talk) 17:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

The Location of Belfast

The boatyard that built the Titanic was in Belfast, Northern Ireland, please note that this is a separate country to Ireland/Eire as quoted and linked to in this article. Can someone correct that? 136.8.152.13 (talk) 07:37, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

 Done Pedro :  Chat  09:31, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

The shipyard was not in Northern Ireland at the time. That country did not exist until 1927. Belfast, Ireland is correct. Mjroots (talk) 06:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

What time zone?

It is written under "Explanatory Notes" the following: Times given are in ship time, the local time for Titanic's position in the Atlantic. On the night of the sinking, this was approximately one and half hours ahead of EST and two hours behind GMT.
But the difference between GMT and EST is five hours. So what time zone is used for the times written in the article? --BIL (talk) 08:59, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

mistaken reference.

Reference 87 is not correct. It's an article about traffic flow, nothing about the Titanic.Srotor (talk) 17:59, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Drydock photo

It's been debated in the past about which ship it is in the Drydock photo. I've always said it was Olympic and it should be stated so. It's not harmful to the Titanic article since both ships were of the same dimensions give or take a few inches. But the proof is in the picture itself. In this photo the ship's waterline has not finished being painted yet and reveals still remaining grey paint(from her launch) that hasn't been covered over by the red anti-fouling paint which evens out the waterline. The grey paint in b/w photo shows up white. Titanic was never painted grey as she was given a black luster for her launch. Well anyway, should is it safe to state Olympic on this particular photo? Koplimek (talk) 02:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

We would need an independent source that says just this, and AFAICR this was one of the problems when this last came up. As user:Koplimek says, the caption is OK in its context. --Old Moonraker (talk) 05:09, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

The Dates

Why don't we put April 14, 1912 or April 15, 1912 instead of 14 April 1912 or 15 April 1912? I think it would be better. Japee (talk)

It's the British style. See MOS:DATE#Full date formatting for more. --Old Moonraker (talk) 12:48, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

ah ok. I didn't know that. Japee (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC).

Contradiction in article

These two paragraphs contradict one another:

Yet another factor in the high death toll that related to the lifeboats was the reluctance of the passengers to board them. They were, after all, on a ship deemed to be "unsinkable". Because of this, some lifeboats were launched with far less than capacity, the most notable being Lifeboat #1, with a capacity of 40, launched with only 12 people aboard.

Contrary to popular mythology, the Titanic was never described as "unsinkable", without qualification, until after she sank.[6][98] There are three trade publications (one of which was probably never published) that describe the Titanic as unsinkable, prior to her sinking, but there is no evidence that the notion of the Titanic's unsinkability had entered public consciousness until after the sinking.

70.138.107.74 (talk) 03:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Good point. The second statement is sourced, but the first isn't. A {{citation needed}} tag added, to see if we can find where this information came from, otherwise it's original research and liable to deletion. --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Number of Passengers

I am re adding this to the Talk Page due to the fact that it went unanswered.

As per RMS Titanic the passenger total was

Category	Number aboard	Number of survivors	Percentage survived	Number lost	Percentage lost
First class	329	199	60.5 %	130	39.5 %
Second class	285	119	41.7 %	166	58.3 %
Third class	710	174	24.5 %	536	75.5 %
Crew	899	214	23.8 %	685	76.2 %
Total	2,223	706	31.8 %	1,517	68.2 %

but as per Timeline of the sinking of the RMS Titanic they are

Category	Number Aboard	Number of Survivors	Percentage That Survived	Number Lost	Percentage That Were Lost
First Class	324	199	60.5 %	130	39.5 %
Second Class	285	119	43.8 %	153	56.2 %
Third Class	708	174	24.5 %	536	75.5 %
Crew	905	212	23.6 %	685	76.4 %
Total	2,222	705	31.9 %	1,517	68.1 %

Which is correct? Originally Posted--Bkopicz3 (talk) 15:20, 24 May 2009 (UTC) Reposted --Bkopicz3 (talk) 22:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yet another way those on the Titanic could have been saved

Charles Pelligrino in his book, Her Name, Titanic, mentions something I've never heard anywhere else. He says that if someone would have thought to open the water-tight doors that were closed upon hitting the iceberg, the ship would have settled evenly into the water. This, according to Pelligrino, would have allowed the ship to stay above water until the Carpathia arrived. As it is, going bow first, the water was allowed to burst through the openings in the anchor chains, the windows in the staterooms, etc. Makes sense to me. Of course, everyone was in shock, especially the engineer/builder (can't remember his name just now) who would probably have been the first to think about it. As Pelligrino points out though, ordering those doors open would have been one tall order for a sinking ship, no matter how logical the reasons. Goes to show how thinking outside the box can come in handy.

68.229.129.32 (talk) 03:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

This point might be worth considering but, to prove it, would require some very detailed calculations by someone who had access to the Titanic's plans and hydrostatic/stability tables. Allowing all the watertight compartments to flood concurrently would surely have created a considerable "free surface effect". ( "free surface effect" could be described, very roughly, as the loss of ship stability caused by large areas of water slopping around inside the ship. The ferry "Herald of Free Enterprise" is a notable example of a passenger ship which lost stability, due free surface flooding, and then capsized very quickly.) Other factors to consider would be the consequences of red hot furnaces, in the boiler rooms, being being subjected to low temperature sea water. It's hard to say if that would have caused catastrophic damage, but it would have made the engine compartments untenable.Norloch (talk) 11:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Other Lifeboats - Lifeboat Number 12

I beleive there were more than two lifeboats that went back to pick up survivors.

According to Encyclopedia-titanica.org: John Thomas Poingdestre (Poindexter), an "Able Bodied Seaman" was in charge of lifeboat number twelve. When the Titanic sank, this lifeboat was no-where near capacity, but Poingdestre went back and gathered survivors. Lifeboat # 12 had 70 people aboard when it was picked up by Carpathia.