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The Prince of Nothing #2
The Warrior Prophet
"Book Two of The Prince of Nothing" finds the Holy War continuing its inexorable march southward. But the suspicion begins to dawn that the real threat comes not from the infidel but from within...Steering souls through the subtleties of word and expression, Kellhus strives to extend his dominion over the Men of the Tusk. The sorcerer Achamian and his lover, Esmenet, submit entirely, only to have their faith - and their love - tested in unimaginable ways. Meanwhile, the warrior Cnaiur falls ever deeper into madness. Convinced that Kellhus will betray their pact to murder his father, Cnaiur turns to the agents of the Second Apocalypse and strikes an infernal bargain. The Holy War stands on a knife edge. If all is not to be lost, the great powers of the world will have to choose between their most desperate desires and the end of the world. Between hatred and hope. Between Anasurimbor Kellhus and the second apocalypse.
738 pages, Mass Market Paperback
First published June 18, 2004
About the author
R. Scott Bakker
40 books2,034 followersRichard Scott Bakker, who writes as R. Scott Bakker and as Scott Bakker, is a novelist whose work is dominated by a large series informally known as the The Second Apocalypse which Bakker began developing whilst at college in the 1980s.
The series was originally planned to be a trilogy, with the first two books entitled The Prince of Nothing and The Aspect-Emperor. However, when Bakker began writing the series in the early 2000s, he found it necessary to split each of the three novels into its own sub-series to incorporate all of the characters, themes and ideas he wished to explore. Bakker originally conceived of seven books: a trilogy and two duologies. This later shifted to two trilogies, with the acknowledgement that the third series may yet also expand to a trilogy.
The Prince of Nothing trilogy was published between 2003 and 2006. It depicts the story of the Holy War launched by the Inrithi kingdoms against the heathen Fanim of the south to recover the holy city of Shimeh for the faithful. During the war, a man named Ansurimbor Kellhus emerges from obscurity to become an exceptionally powerful and influential figure, and it is discovered that the Consult, an alliance of forces united in their worship of the legendary No-God, a nihilistic force of destruction, are manipulating events to pave the way for the No-God's return to the mortal world.
The sequel series, The Aspect-Emperor trilogy, picks up the story twenty years later with Kellhus leading the Inrithi kingdoms in directly seeking out and confronting the Consult. The first novel in this new series is due for publication in 2009.
Whilst working on the Prince of Nothing series, Bakker was given a challenge by his wife to write a thriller. To answer this, he produced a science fiction thriller based around a serial killer who can control and influence the human mind. This book, Neuropath, was eventually published in 2008. Inspired, he wrote a second thriller titled The Disciple of the Dog in 2009.
The series was originally planned to be a trilogy, with the first two books entitled The Prince of Nothing and The Aspect-Emperor. However, when Bakker began writing the series in the early 2000s, he found it necessary to split each of the three novels into its own sub-series to incorporate all of the characters, themes and ideas he wished to explore. Bakker originally conceived of seven books: a trilogy and two duologies. This later shifted to two trilogies, with the acknowledgement that the third series may yet also expand to a trilogy.
The Prince of Nothing trilogy was published between 2003 and 2006. It depicts the story of the Holy War launched by the Inrithi kingdoms against the heathen Fanim of the south to recover the holy city of Shimeh for the faithful. During the war, a man named Ansurimbor Kellhus emerges from obscurity to become an exceptionally powerful and influential figure, and it is discovered that the Consult, an alliance of forces united in their worship of the legendary No-God, a nihilistic force of destruction, are manipulating events to pave the way for the No-God's return to the mortal world.
The sequel series, The Aspect-Emperor trilogy, picks up the story twenty years later with Kellhus leading the Inrithi kingdoms in directly seeking out and confronting the Consult. The first novel in this new series is due for publication in 2009.
Whilst working on the Prince of Nothing series, Bakker was given a challenge by his wife to write a thriller. To answer this, he produced a science fiction thriller based around a serial killer who can control and influence the human mind. This book, Neuropath, was eventually published in 2008. Inspired, he wrote a second thriller titled The Disciple of the Dog in 2009.
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May 24, 2024
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Books have no right being this spectacular. Amazing in literally every way.
Books have no right being this spectacular. Amazing in literally every way.
April 16, 2018
Here we see philosophy brought to what is, in fact, a precarious position, which should be made fast even though it is supported by nothing in either heaven or earth. Here philosophy must show its purity as the absolute sustainer of its laws, and not as a herald of laws which implanted sense or who knows what tutelary nature whispers to it.
—IMMANUEL KANT, FOUNDATIONS OF THE METAPHYSICS OF MORALS
There you go, a quote from one of Immanuel Kant's essays at the very beginning of the book. And that's not even from one of the three "Critiques" ("Critique of Pure Reason", "Critique of Practical Reason" & "Critique of Judgement") but from one of the minor offerings by the German philosopher who's (widely) known for attacking, like no other before him, metaphysics as a science. I remember studying the three "Critiques" at university; I actually had to read them all and, trust me on this one, it wasn't a walk in the park, but that's another story. My point is: finding such a quote at the very beginning of a fantasy novel is really something. It sort of gives you a rough idea of what you're about to venture into.
The second installment in the "Prince of Nothing" series is even better than The Darkness That Comes Before, I think. I loved the story, loved the characters, loved the plot, loved the general mood of the book (extremely dark, in case you're wondering) and the style. I find Bakker's prose to be nothing short of stunning; the bloke really has a way with words, he writes the same way Steve Vai plays but, as I implicitly suggested, it's not going to be an easy book. And some chapters read like a history textbook... in the best possible way, I mean.
“It means that young bulls sometimes make good cows …”
More gales of laughter, but Achamian could manage no more than a smile. Why was he so angry? “No,” he called out. “What do you think it really means?”
Kellhus paused, clasped Serwë’s right hand and looked from face to shining face. Achamian glanced at Serwë, only to look away. She was watching him—intently.
“It means,” Kellhus said in a solemn and strangely touching voice, “that there are many kinds of courage, and many degrees of honour.” He had a way of speaking that seemed to hush all else, even the surrounding Holy War. “It means that these things—courage, honour, even love—are problems, not absolutes. Questions.”
Iryssas shook his head vigorously. He was one of those dull-witted men who continually confused ardour with insight. Watching him argue with Kellhus had become something of a sport.
“Courage, honour, love—these are problems? Then what are the solutions? Cowardice and depravity?”
"The Warrior Prophet" - just like "The Darkness That Comes Before" - requires all your attention and, sometimes, a dictionary close at hand (do you peeps know what a barbican is? Ha! I do. Now, that is). One thing for sure: you can't read this series absent-mindedly, if you do, you'll find yourself wondering what's happeneing and how in the holiest of holy fucks you got there, and that's going to piss you off and, possibly, have you burning the book.
That being said, a little bit of ranting from old Twerks: some people think Bakker is a misogynist asshole because female characters don't have enough screen time, and they're all there to satisfy men's needs only. All sorts of men's needs. Tell you what? It's a humongous load of bullcrap. Whenever someone's after misogyny, rest assured they'll find it everywhere. Fuck them. I, for one, think "The Warrior Prophet" wouldn't be such a great, amazing, riveting, astonishing, uncanny book without Serwë and Esmenet. They are the actual soul of the book, they're the only really likeable characters among a bunch of lawless, mindless, heartless, ruthless bastards. And they're prostitures. What does that tell you when, of all people, - warriors, sorcerors, kings, princes, you name it - you care mainly for two women who happen to be whores? Misogynism my hairy arse. Shy, naive and beautiful, Serwë is one of the most tragic figures you'll ever find in a fantasy novel and, without going into spoiler-mode, let me just say her story is heart-breaking. Esmenet goes through just about everything in her quest for love. So, again, misogyny my arse.
The Warrior Prophet is amazing. Five magnificent stars.
—IMMANUEL KANT, FOUNDATIONS OF THE METAPHYSICS OF MORALS
There you go, a quote from one of Immanuel Kant's essays at the very beginning of the book. And that's not even from one of the three "Critiques" ("Critique of Pure Reason", "Critique of Practical Reason" & "Critique of Judgement") but from one of the minor offerings by the German philosopher who's (widely) known for attacking, like no other before him, metaphysics as a science. I remember studying the three "Critiques" at university; I actually had to read them all and, trust me on this one, it wasn't a walk in the park, but that's another story. My point is: finding such a quote at the very beginning of a fantasy novel is really something. It sort of gives you a rough idea of what you're about to venture into.
The second installment in the "Prince of Nothing" series is even better than The Darkness That Comes Before, I think. I loved the story, loved the characters, loved the plot, loved the general mood of the book (extremely dark, in case you're wondering) and the style. I find Bakker's prose to be nothing short of stunning; the bloke really has a way with words, he writes the same way Steve Vai plays but, as I implicitly suggested, it's not going to be an easy book. And some chapters read like a history textbook... in the best possible way, I mean.
“It means that young bulls sometimes make good cows …”
More gales of laughter, but Achamian could manage no more than a smile. Why was he so angry? “No,” he called out. “What do you think it really means?”
Kellhus paused, clasped Serwë’s right hand and looked from face to shining face. Achamian glanced at Serwë, only to look away. She was watching him—intently.
“It means,” Kellhus said in a solemn and strangely touching voice, “that there are many kinds of courage, and many degrees of honour.” He had a way of speaking that seemed to hush all else, even the surrounding Holy War. “It means that these things—courage, honour, even love—are problems, not absolutes. Questions.”
Iryssas shook his head vigorously. He was one of those dull-witted men who continually confused ardour with insight. Watching him argue with Kellhus had become something of a sport.
“Courage, honour, love—these are problems? Then what are the solutions? Cowardice and depravity?”
"The Warrior Prophet" - just like "The Darkness That Comes Before" - requires all your attention and, sometimes, a dictionary close at hand (do you peeps know what a barbican is? Ha! I do. Now, that is). One thing for sure: you can't read this series absent-mindedly, if you do, you'll find yourself wondering what's happeneing and how in the holiest of holy fucks you got there, and that's going to piss you off and, possibly, have you burning the book.
That being said, a little bit of ranting from old Twerks: some people think Bakker is a misogynist asshole because female characters don't have enough screen time, and they're all there to satisfy men's needs only. All sorts of men's needs. Tell you what? It's a humongous load of bullcrap. Whenever someone's after misogyny, rest assured they'll find it everywhere. Fuck them. I, for one, think "The Warrior Prophet" wouldn't be such a great, amazing, riveting, astonishing, uncanny book without Serwë and Esmenet. They are the actual soul of the book, they're the only really likeable characters among a bunch of lawless, mindless, heartless, ruthless bastards. And they're prostitures. What does that tell you when, of all people, - warriors, sorcerors, kings, princes, you name it - you care mainly for two women who happen to be whores? Misogynism my hairy arse. Shy, naive and beautiful, Serwë is one of the most tragic figures you'll ever find in a fantasy novel and, without going into spoiler-mode, let me just say her story is heart-breaking. Esmenet goes through just about everything in her quest for love. So, again, misogyny my arse.
The Warrior Prophet is amazing. Five magnificent stars.
September 26, 2021
*I will not add something of my own for my second reread. I will just quote a friend and fellow Bakker fan in regards on Bakker's writing:
"I feel this is arguably the greatest fantasy trilogy ever written.
It is an absolutely gorgeous and sprawling work of deliriously beautiful prose, rich vivid characters and a dark quasi-nihilistic world. It does take some patience before certain key plot points are revealed but it is so worth the time invested.
I don't feel the writing is slow so much as it is deliberate and intentional.
I honestly feel if even a single word was excised the whole work would suffer. It is a complex machine with many cogs and wheels.
IMO Bakker is the Kurosawa of fantasy offering a story with a glorious and sweeping scope that utterly transports you to another world.
I have never experienced such immersion in a story as I did with TPoN."
I dont think I can adequately describe this epic saga of ordeal, madness and desperation. Eveything that Bakker introduced in the first book is here. Incredible depths in characterisation. Beautiful prose. Terrific sense of setting a scene. Like watching a movie of incredible cinematography. Immense worldbuilding with an always growing dark scope of impending doom. So detailed and vivid that Eärwa feels a real existing past. It almost feels like reading some holy scriptures.
I only want to make special mention to two chapters of the story. The desert march of the holy army and the siege of Caraskand. Bakker is extremely good at describing stories of doom and disaster. The ordeal in the desert and the doomed siege are an ode to what follows desperation. A spiralling descend to madness, hatred, savagery, survival, fanaticism, dark philosophy, tortures, famine, plagues but also feats of courage, determination, willpower, self sacrifice and self transendance. Terrific, riveting stuff.
In the end, my only worry is that this is too good. The plot and the scope are so grim and promising that I cant see how all these will be fulfilled in the end. But even if this wont fully happen these first two books were phenomenal and forced me to invest myself 100%. All day my thought is to Eärwa!
"I feel this is arguably the greatest fantasy trilogy ever written.
It is an absolutely gorgeous and sprawling work of deliriously beautiful prose, rich vivid characters and a dark quasi-nihilistic world. It does take some patience before certain key plot points are revealed but it is so worth the time invested.
I don't feel the writing is slow so much as it is deliberate and intentional.
I honestly feel if even a single word was excised the whole work would suffer. It is a complex machine with many cogs and wheels.
IMO Bakker is the Kurosawa of fantasy offering a story with a glorious and sweeping scope that utterly transports you to another world.
I have never experienced such immersion in a story as I did with TPoN."
I dont think I can adequately describe this epic saga of ordeal, madness and desperation. Eveything that Bakker introduced in the first book is here. Incredible depths in characterisation. Beautiful prose. Terrific sense of setting a scene. Like watching a movie of incredible cinematography. Immense worldbuilding with an always growing dark scope of impending doom. So detailed and vivid that Eärwa feels a real existing past. It almost feels like reading some holy scriptures.
I only want to make special mention to two chapters of the story. The desert march of the holy army and the siege of Caraskand. Bakker is extremely good at describing stories of doom and disaster. The ordeal in the desert and the doomed siege are an ode to what follows desperation. A spiralling descend to madness, hatred, savagery, survival, fanaticism, dark philosophy, tortures, famine, plagues but also feats of courage, determination, willpower, self sacrifice and self transendance. Terrific, riveting stuff.
In the end, my only worry is that this is too good. The plot and the scope are so grim and promising that I cant see how all these will be fulfilled in the end. But even if this wont fully happen these first two books were phenomenal and forced me to invest myself 100%. All day my thought is to Eärwa!
July 26, 2018
This second instalment in Bakker's compelling dark fantasy trilogy, The Prince of Nothing, is just as good as its predecessor. It is dark fantasy done correctly! We get memorable characters, a world with plenty of depth, a plot full of intrigue and engaging happenings, and all told in an engaging narration style that makes the dark content easy to read without ever making it seem too horrific or bleak. It shows Bakker's talent as a writer as this series can get pretty dark at times.
The story is just a continuation of what we got in the first book. The Holy War, and its mass of scheming participants, is finally ready to take the war to the heathens! It made for exciting and engaging reading as all the series best characters were back trying to manipulate things to suit their own self-interests.
This book does have a few flaws. I could do with there being a lot less misogyny present within the story. I understand the misogyny that is part of the world building and have no issue with it but it goes beyond that when it seeps into the story set-up, the characters who have no cultural reasons to be misogynistic, and even into bits of the omnipotent narration!
My Prince of Nothing read-along-buddy braved through some spoilers to glean this reply (after having to listen to me do a fair bit of moaning lol) by Bakker into the issue of the abundant misogyny within the series.
The Prince of Nothing is as much about epic fantasy as it is an epic fantasy, which is why I take - or try to anyway - the whole notion of a prescientific world very seriously. Prescientific worlds give us many things the modern world seems to have stripped from us - most importantly, I think, the illusion that something human inheres in the external world. Our ancestors didn't simply stamp their hopes on the world about them, they imposed their bigotries and fears as well. In Tolkien, for instance, the external world is racist, through and through. It is an objective fact in Middle-earth that some races are more valuable than others. In Earwa, the external world is sexist, not simply in the minds of the characters who dwell in it, but to the pith - much the same way Biblical Israel or any number of scriptural worlds are likewise sexist. The Prince of Nothing self-consciously explores this as a problem, and as such, I would hope that it's something women would want to read. The problem is that so many people confuse depiction for endorsement.
Bakker claims it was intentional. I'm a little sceptical myself as I'm not sure what point he was trying to make unless it was to put the boot into the level of misogyny present within most sacred religious texts? If so he could have been doing with being a bit less subtle in the way he made his point.
The other flaws that stood out for me were the occasional dues ex machina moments and what I felt was the overuse of a specific trope. The trope itself was not an issue but the overuse of it across multiple characters gave the story a lazy feel.
It sounds like I've done nothing but moan about this books flaws but I did actually enjoy reading it a lot and think The Prince of Nothing series is addictive reading and 5 star quality! The misogyny and the other darker aspects of the story do not hurt it too much as Bakker employs a fairly detached narration style that mitigates a lot of the darker stuff in the story and makes it tolerable. He also does not try to sell any of his characters as people the reader should like or admire. They are all flawed and most are quite villainous. Despite that fact the characters are a fascinating bunch and I'm glued to their various story arcs!
All in all I loved this one. Bakker's world has plenty of depth and he is a fantastic storyteller.
Rating: 5 stars.
Audio Note: David De Vries does a good job with the audio. His character voices are good and his voice acting seems decent as well.
The story is just a continuation of what we got in the first book. The Holy War, and its mass of scheming participants, is finally ready to take the war to the heathens! It made for exciting and engaging reading as all the series best characters were back trying to manipulate things to suit their own self-interests.
This book does have a few flaws. I could do with there being a lot less misogyny present within the story. I understand the misogyny that is part of the world building and have no issue with it but it goes beyond that when it seeps into the story set-up, the characters who have no cultural reasons to be misogynistic, and even into bits of the omnipotent narration!
My Prince of Nothing read-along-buddy braved through some spoilers to glean this reply (after having to listen to me do a fair bit of moaning lol) by Bakker into the issue of the abundant misogyny within the series.
The Prince of Nothing is as much about epic fantasy as it is an epic fantasy, which is why I take - or try to anyway - the whole notion of a prescientific world very seriously. Prescientific worlds give us many things the modern world seems to have stripped from us - most importantly, I think, the illusion that something human inheres in the external world. Our ancestors didn't simply stamp their hopes on the world about them, they imposed their bigotries and fears as well. In Tolkien, for instance, the external world is racist, through and through. It is an objective fact in Middle-earth that some races are more valuable than others. In Earwa, the external world is sexist, not simply in the minds of the characters who dwell in it, but to the pith - much the same way Biblical Israel or any number of scriptural worlds are likewise sexist. The Prince of Nothing self-consciously explores this as a problem, and as such, I would hope that it's something women would want to read. The problem is that so many people confuse depiction for endorsement.
Bakker claims it was intentional. I'm a little sceptical myself as I'm not sure what point he was trying to make unless it was to put the boot into the level of misogyny present within most sacred religious texts? If so he could have been doing with being a bit less subtle in the way he made his point.
The other flaws that stood out for me were the occasional dues ex machina moments and what I felt was the overuse of a specific trope. The trope itself was not an issue but the overuse of it across multiple characters gave the story a lazy feel.
It sounds like I've done nothing but moan about this books flaws but I did actually enjoy reading it a lot and think The Prince of Nothing series is addictive reading and 5 star quality! The misogyny and the other darker aspects of the story do not hurt it too much as Bakker employs a fairly detached narration style that mitigates a lot of the darker stuff in the story and makes it tolerable. He also does not try to sell any of his characters as people the reader should like or admire. They are all flawed and most are quite villainous. Despite that fact the characters are a fascinating bunch and I'm glued to their various story arcs!
All in all I loved this one. Bakker's world has plenty of depth and he is a fantastic storyteller.
Rating: 5 stars.
Audio Note: David De Vries does a good job with the audio. His character voices are good and his voice acting seems decent as well.
October 30, 2013
This second volume of the "Prince of Nothing" trilogy is weaker than the first under every aspect.
First of all, the plot fails to build upon the excellent foundations set in "The Darkness that comes before" resulting unmemorable and entirely predictable.
If you've read the first volume then you already know everything that's going to happen here.
Second, the atmosphere.
Remember that awesome feel of brooding darkness with unseen demonic threats in the first book? GOOD! Hold tight to that memory because you'll find nothing of that here.
The dark feel is now SO dark and SO lacking depth as to be almost comical and the Consult and its agents are reduced to cartoon villains with a penchant for raping anything with a hole in it (because they're evil).
The narration entirely focuses on the Holy war, which after all the talk of demons and omens and Apocalypse feels horribly mundane.
And then the characters.
Oh, the characters.
The characters in this book almost make me cry at the wasted potential.
The Darkness that comes before introduced some very interesting characters: realistic, flawed and deep.
In "The warrior prophet" Bakker took and turned them in a bunch of weeping cardboard cutouts flatter than Serwe's EEG.
I'm assuming it was intentional because I just can't see how could someone so thoroughly ruin great characters such as Cnaiur an Kellhus by accident.
In the first book Kellhus was an awesome protagonist/villain. He was subtle, smart, devious as fuck and I loved his Pov chapters because of the insights on his complex lines of reasoning.
Now he's an obnoxious Gary Stu with multiple layers of plot armor that just steamrolls every opposition without breaking a sweat.
His manipulative skills get ridiculously overpowered beyond any logic, to the point of being able to cause mass allucinations and rewrite people's memory just by talking.
He's dying? That was his plan all along! *YAWN*
About half of the paragraphs are there only to allow various pov characters to remind you how awesome Kellhus is, how everybody loves Kellhus, how Kellhus is great at manipulating people and on and on and on.
At some point he actually abandons any pretence of subtlety and announces himself as the son of god or something.
Needless to say, all this gets old fast.
Really, really fast.
Cnaiur keeps spitting and weeping and... not much else really.
Esmenet gradually becomes another Kellhus-loving freak losing any hint of personality she had.
Serwe... well Serwe was already completely braindead in the first book and nothing changed on that part.
Achamian is the only one that's still vaguely interesting, except when he's fawning over Kellhus's awesome awesomeness (which is pretty much all the time).
The battles are a borefest, little more than endless lists of irrelevant names. I actually had to force myself thrugh a couple of them and still I kept getting distracted by more interesting things such as the grain of the paper and the shadows on the wall.
The one in TDTCB was nice so I'm not sure why he changed style so radically.
Even the philosophy, which I found enganging and interesting in the previous volume, here consist of just a couple basic ideas repeated ad nauseam.
Last but not least, this book holds hands-down the highest number of gratuitous sexual images in the history of literature.
In every chapter there's mention of at least 4-5 phalluses and a number of rapes varying from 3 to a gazillion, 99% of which add absolutely nothing to the story.
Sentences like "He took his sword, and felt his phallus harden against his breeches" are perfectly normal in the Warrior Prophet.
This kind of shit is not only incredibly common, but at times gets so graphic and weird you'll really start wondering what the fuck was going on in Bakker's mind.
Everything with a hole in it will eventually get raped.
EVERYTHING. Men, women, children, demons, corpses, the ground (not kidding), wounds (not kidding, sadly), amputated body parts and so on.
I still like the setting and most of the writing, although at times things got so abstract I had troubles understanding what the fuck was going on.
3 stars feels about right, but I can't guarantee I'm not being influenced by the good impression I had of the first book.
Actually, the more I think about it, the worse it seems.
On to the third volume, but without much hope.
First of all, the plot fails to build upon the excellent foundations set in "The Darkness that comes before" resulting unmemorable and entirely predictable.
If you've read the first volume then you already know everything that's going to happen here.
Second, the atmosphere.
Remember that awesome feel of brooding darkness with unseen demonic threats in the first book? GOOD! Hold tight to that memory because you'll find nothing of that here.
The dark feel is now SO dark and SO lacking depth as to be almost comical and the Consult and its agents are reduced to cartoon villains with a penchant for raping anything with a hole in it (because they're evil).
The narration entirely focuses on the Holy war, which after all the talk of demons and omens and Apocalypse feels horribly mundane.
And then the characters.
Oh, the characters.
The characters in this book almost make me cry at the wasted potential.
The Darkness that comes before introduced some very interesting characters: realistic, flawed and deep.
In "The warrior prophet" Bakker took and turned them in a bunch of weeping cardboard cutouts flatter than Serwe's EEG.
I'm assuming it was intentional because I just can't see how could someone so thoroughly ruin great characters such as Cnaiur an Kellhus by accident.
In the first book Kellhus was an awesome protagonist/villain. He was subtle, smart, devious as fuck and I loved his Pov chapters because of the insights on his complex lines of reasoning.
Now he's an obnoxious Gary Stu with multiple layers of plot armor that just steamrolls every opposition without breaking a sweat.
His manipulative skills get ridiculously overpowered beyond any logic, to the point of being able to cause mass allucinations and rewrite people's memory just by talking.
He's dying? That was his plan all along! *YAWN*
About half of the paragraphs are there only to allow various pov characters to remind you how awesome Kellhus is, how everybody loves Kellhus, how Kellhus is great at manipulating people and on and on and on.
At some point he actually abandons any pretence of subtlety and announces himself as the son of god or something.
Needless to say, all this gets old fast.
Really, really fast.
Cnaiur keeps spitting and weeping and... not much else really.
Esmenet gradually becomes another Kellhus-loving freak losing any hint of personality she had.
Serwe... well Serwe was already completely braindead in the first book and nothing changed on that part.
Achamian is the only one that's still vaguely interesting, except when he's fawning over Kellhus's awesome awesomeness (which is pretty much all the time).
The battles are a borefest, little more than endless lists of irrelevant names. I actually had to force myself thrugh a couple of them and still I kept getting distracted by more interesting things such as the grain of the paper and the shadows on the wall.
The one in TDTCB was nice so I'm not sure why he changed style so radically.
Even the philosophy, which I found enganging and interesting in the previous volume, here consist of just a couple basic ideas repeated ad nauseam.
Last but not least, this book holds hands-down the highest number of gratuitous sexual images in the history of literature.
In every chapter there's mention of at least 4-5 phalluses and a number of rapes varying from 3 to a gazillion, 99% of which add absolutely nothing to the story.
Sentences like "He took his sword, and felt his phallus harden against his breeches" are perfectly normal in the Warrior Prophet.
This kind of shit is not only incredibly common, but at times gets so graphic and weird you'll really start wondering what the fuck was going on in Bakker's mind.
Everything with a hole in it will eventually get raped.
EVERYTHING. Men, women, children, demons, corpses, the ground (not kidding), wounds (not kidding, sadly), amputated body parts and so on.
I still like the setting and most of the writing, although at times things got so abstract I had troubles understanding what the fuck was going on.
3 stars feels about right, but I can't guarantee I'm not being influenced by the good impression I had of the first book.
Actually, the more I think about it, the worse it seems.
On to the third volume, but without much hope.
August 8, 2018
The scale of these books is immense, and I mean like huge. So much going on, so many different everythings. (I know that's not a word) The first book was way more political and personal and this one takes off right where it left off and we really get to see how Mr. Bakker handles the large scale fighting and battles. I gotta say I was impressed. I could follow everything that was going on, I felt connected enough to the characters to really care about what was happening, and in terms of ferocity this delivers brutality in spades. The structure of this was also somewhat unique IMO in that there was no single climactic act but a bunch of equally urgent events, none more important than the other. I have begun to trust R. Scott as an author after these two books to entertain me, to enlighten me with ways of thinking I had not explored before, and to deliver a multi-layered tapestry of emotion and great story telling. I was worried after I read the introduction where he explains how the first book took like fifteen years or so and this was written in under one and I said to myself it sounded like he was giving himself an out if it sucked, but by fifteen pages in all worries went out the window and I was happily hooked. Like my favorite series of all time that rhymes with Schmalazan, I "saw" what was going on in this book with crisp clarity and the scenes unfolded in my head in 4K Ultra HD. As soon as I would pick this up to read, my real world fell away and I was there with the dirt and the grit and the sweat and the blood, feeling what was going on and experiencing it like I was really there. Bravo Mr. Bakker and thank goodness for two-day shipping because I got book three right here next to me, begging me to begin.
November 11, 2023
Update: Even better on reread. This series has one of the most expansive realistic immersive worlds I have read about in fantasy. I think people can be put off by all the names, factions, and places but to me that is what makes it feel so big and fleshed out. Unlike other fantasy stories that have a bunch of places on a map that the book never deals with this series either takes you there or has characters from there with their own distinct cultures. Also the story and characters are just incredibly compelling. Absolutely one of my all time favorite series and this is one of the best books in it.
Seeing as this is book 2 of the Prince of Nothing series I will likely keep this review short as to avoid spoilers while also capturing some of my thoughts that I can look back on after I have finished the series.
Right away I think my immediate impression after finishing the book is that I enjoyed it more than book 1 but only slightly more. The two books were quite different. Book 1 was more a book of political intrigue where there is a lot of maneuvering between various factions as they each try to sabotage and backstab the other in order to get what they want from the upcoming Holy War.
This lead to a lot of page time with characters I thought were terrible people, but really interesting such as Conphas and Emperor Xerius. Book 2 moves in a different direction as the Holy War has started in truth and that makes the book less politics focused in favor of war and battle. While I missed the political gamesman ship the battle scenes, especially when magic was used, was really engrossing. This is full throated grimdark, and when it comes to death and destruction in war we are spared no detailed description. The prose is so good though you only want more description of the horrors of the world so it never feels bogged down. This is particularly true in part 3 of the book where a siege occurs. I got sucked right in and could not stop reading until the end. And then the last chapter, which functions as somewhat of a long epilogue, really turns some of the horror elements of the series up to 11 and whetted my appetite for book 3.
The parts where I struggled with the book, and what keeps it from being a 5 star read for me, is so much of the time we spend with Kellhus. His rise to prominence really isn't written in a way that is really very believable. Everything about him and his actions feel very convenient, and the way the other characters react to him doesn't really make a lot of sense based on what we see him do. I told some people on discord that Kellhus basically spouts some Psych 101 bullshit and people fall all over themselves. It's pretty clear that Kellhus is supposed to be manipulating circumstances to win favor, but I don't think it comes off quite the way the author intended.
In any case this is still a very good book and series that has me completely invested when originally I hadn't planned to read it this year at all. I highly recommend it to all grimdark fans.
One last thing...I originally was down on the audiobook based on the audible sample, but I decided to go ahead and give it a shot for immersive reading. I was 100 percent wrong. The narrator (whose name I can't recall) does an absolutely fantastic job, and it was nice to hear a fantasy book narrator with an American accent for a change.
Seeing as this is book 2 of the Prince of Nothing series I will likely keep this review short as to avoid spoilers while also capturing some of my thoughts that I can look back on after I have finished the series.
Right away I think my immediate impression after finishing the book is that I enjoyed it more than book 1 but only slightly more. The two books were quite different. Book 1 was more a book of political intrigue where there is a lot of maneuvering between various factions as they each try to sabotage and backstab the other in order to get what they want from the upcoming Holy War.
This lead to a lot of page time with characters I thought were terrible people, but really interesting such as Conphas and Emperor Xerius. Book 2 moves in a different direction as the Holy War has started in truth and that makes the book less politics focused in favor of war and battle. While I missed the political gamesman ship the battle scenes, especially when magic was used, was really engrossing. This is full throated grimdark, and when it comes to death and destruction in war we are spared no detailed description. The prose is so good though you only want more description of the horrors of the world so it never feels bogged down. This is particularly true in part 3 of the book where a siege occurs. I got sucked right in and could not stop reading until the end. And then the last chapter, which functions as somewhat of a long epilogue, really turns some of the horror elements of the series up to 11 and whetted my appetite for book 3.
The parts where I struggled with the book, and what keeps it from being a 5 star read for me, is so much of the time we spend with Kellhus. His rise to prominence really isn't written in a way that is really very believable. Everything about him and his actions feel very convenient, and the way the other characters react to him doesn't really make a lot of sense based on what we see him do. I told some people on discord that Kellhus basically spouts some Psych 101 bullshit and people fall all over themselves. It's pretty clear that Kellhus is supposed to be manipulating circumstances to win favor, but I don't think it comes off quite the way the author intended.
In any case this is still a very good book and series that has me completely invested when originally I hadn't planned to read it this year at all. I highly recommend it to all grimdark fans.
One last thing...I originally was down on the audiobook based on the audible sample, but I decided to go ahead and give it a shot for immersive reading. I was 100 percent wrong. The narrator (whose name I can't recall) does an absolutely fantastic job, and it was nice to hear a fantasy book narrator with an American accent for a change.
September 2, 2021
August 2021 update: Sometimes you just need to re-read an old favorite. Glad I did, it has been a while since I last dipped my toe into this series and I will likely finish all of them by the end of the year. The below review still holds up.
Observational aside: I will rarely reread books. Once I finish a book it is usually off to the next one, with few exceptions. In this case the sixth book in the series, The Great Ordeal, is coming out soon, a book I have waited nearly five years for, and I wanted to give myself a refresher on the entire series before it was released. I don't recall the first time I read "The Prince of Nothing" trilogy but Goodreads assures me it was before I joined this website. Since then I have read literally hundreds of books and grown as a reader thanks to those books as well as thinking through those books when I write reviews. Over that time my sensibilities and critical eye has changed as well (I'd like to think for the better) so it was a rather enlightening exercise this return to a time in my reading life from before Goodreads (BGR?). With that rambling out of the way on to the review.
The Darkness That Comes Before review
The Prince of Nothing trilogy is probably better understood as one story that happens to be broken up into three sections with each book fulfilling a part of the traditional three act structure. The Darkness That Comes Before introduced us to the main characters and their various relationships as well as set the historical and cultural stage they would play their stories out in.
For a series that is based on The First Crusade there was remarkably little crusading in the first book. It was mostly about the political maneuverings to secure various parties' interests to ensure the Holy War could even happen. After all, it is no small thing to coordinate and supply a 150,000 strong medieval army plus provide for all the camp followers. It is serious business and Bakker does not shy away from showing just how difficult such an undertaking is. There is near constant squabbling between the different "Great Names" much as there was during the historic First Crusade.
This book certainly delivers in terms of battles, deftly describing the ebb and flow and chaos of these sorts of encounters. They are often not one unified battle but dozens of small pitched battles along a great front that the military leaders have difficulty coordinating in the midst of the chaos. As I previous wrote, Bakker will occasionally transition into a omniscient view to give the reader a better grasp on major events. In this book he effectively uses it to describe these large pitched battles. It is very much a top down view for the most part and conveys the flow of action and its savagery without being tied to one individual point of view. It is efficient and effective, making the battles cinematic instead of constrained to a handful of POVs.
These battles are between the Holy War taking on the role of the Christian Crusaders (their faith is Inrithi) and the Islamic analogue, the Fanim. As much as the Inrithi would cloak their war in the raiment of holiness and justice in God's name there is rarely quarter given and atrocities against the Fanim population is common practice.
This book also brings us several magic battles (much to the chagrin of the sorcerers' immediate surroundings). It is pretty damn impressive to see just what Aka is capable of when provoked to rage (hint: do not provoke Aka to rage):
This book was certainly more action packed than the first (as is expected in the second act) but it wasn't action for action's sake. The narrative and character development proceeded nicely and the great ancient evil continues to play its games, only slowly coming to the realization that this Khellus chap is a threat of unknown quantity and quality. Meanwhile there is plenty of political maneuvering to subvert the Holy War to others' ends and the Fanim continue to present a significant threat to the whole operation (not that I can blame them, after all, they are GETTING INVADED BY A BUNCH OF RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS!!!!!). All in all a great read even if the shortcomings of the first book have yet to be mitigated.
And, as always, some choice quotes:
Always Be Closing: Glory doesn't vouchsafe glory. The unthinkable can always come to pass.
I feel like St. Anselm would agree with this sentiment: All men are greater than dead men. -Ainoni Proverb.
They maybe be zealots, but they are zealots on a budget: "If blasphemers kill blasphemers, then we're saved oil and wood."
I mean, I guess there is a distinction there: Heathens, Uranyanka would latter tell Chepheramunni, he could tolerate, but treacherous heathen he could not forbear. [In this case not being able to forbear them means slaughtering them to the man.]
Why the separation of Church and state also protects the church side of the equation: Dead prophets were useful, because one could rule in their name. But live prophets?
Thus far the reread project is going smashingly, this was energetic and engaging. I am definitely appreciating the more subtle themes Bakker is laying out and can appreciate just what he is trying to accomplish with his characters' plot arcs, something I don't think I fully grasped the first time through.
Observational aside: I will rarely reread books. Once I finish a book it is usually off to the next one, with few exceptions. In this case the sixth book in the series, The Great Ordeal, is coming out soon, a book I have waited nearly five years for, and I wanted to give myself a refresher on the entire series before it was released. I don't recall the first time I read "The Prince of Nothing" trilogy but Goodreads assures me it was before I joined this website. Since then I have read literally hundreds of books and grown as a reader thanks to those books as well as thinking through those books when I write reviews. Over that time my sensibilities and critical eye has changed as well (I'd like to think for the better) so it was a rather enlightening exercise this return to a time in my reading life from before Goodreads (BGR?). With that rambling out of the way on to the review.
The Darkness That Comes Before review
The Prince of Nothing trilogy is probably better understood as one story that happens to be broken up into three sections with each book fulfilling a part of the traditional three act structure. The Darkness That Comes Before introduced us to the main characters and their various relationships as well as set the historical and cultural stage they would play their stories out in.
For a series that is based on The First Crusade there was remarkably little crusading in the first book. It was mostly about the political maneuverings to secure various parties' interests to ensure the Holy War could even happen. After all, it is no small thing to coordinate and supply a 150,000 strong medieval army plus provide for all the camp followers. It is serious business and Bakker does not shy away from showing just how difficult such an undertaking is. There is near constant squabbling between the different "Great Names" much as there was during the historic First Crusade.
This book certainly delivers in terms of battles, deftly describing the ebb and flow and chaos of these sorts of encounters. They are often not one unified battle but dozens of small pitched battles along a great front that the military leaders have difficulty coordinating in the midst of the chaos. As I previous wrote, Bakker will occasionally transition into a omniscient view to give the reader a better grasp on major events. In this book he effectively uses it to describe these large pitched battles. It is very much a top down view for the most part and conveys the flow of action and its savagery without being tied to one individual point of view. It is efficient and effective, making the battles cinematic instead of constrained to a handful of POVs.
These battles are between the Holy War taking on the role of the Christian Crusaders (their faith is Inrithi) and the Islamic analogue, the Fanim. As much as the Inrithi would cloak their war in the raiment of holiness and justice in God's name there is rarely quarter given and atrocities against the Fanim population is common practice.
No matter what the fanaticism, Inrithi, Consult, or even Mandate, the consequences are the same: men die or suffer.But the war and battles serve merely as a backdrop for the path of our four major characters: Khellus, Aka, Esmenet, and Cnaiür. To me the most fascinating was Khellus, who continues his quest to find his father. He has decided the only way to get to his father, who resides in the Holy City that is the target of the Holy War, is to subvert the Holy War to his own ends. Yes, his plan is basically to hijack a 150,000+ man army and an entire school of sorcery from the most powerful nobles and sorcerers in the land. Talk about a ballsy move. But he has a plan and the abilities to pull it off because he understands what moves men's souls. He sees how the history and culture of the people of the Three Seas can be manipulated by him to further his influence over everyone from slave to Great Name alike. It is a sight to behold and, frankly, sort of terrifying. Keep in mind I described him in my review of the first book as a sociopath and what we learn about his upbringing as a Dûnyain only reinforces how alien these humans have become. More on the Dûnyain and their philosophy in my review of the last book in the series because there is a lot to dig in to.
This book also brings us several magic battles (much to the chagrin of the sorcerers' immediate surroundings). It is pretty damn impressive to see just what Aka is capable of when provoked to rage (hint: do not provoke Aka to rage):
Vengeance roamed the halls of the compound - like a God. And he sang his song with a beast's blind fury, parting wall from foundation, blowing ceiling into sky, as though the works of man were things of sand.What the sorcery of this world lacks in subtlety it more than makes up for in shear pants crapping power.
This book was certainly more action packed than the first (as is expected in the second act) but it wasn't action for action's sake. The narrative and character development proceeded nicely and the great ancient evil continues to play its games, only slowly coming to the realization that this Khellus chap is a threat of unknown quantity and quality. Meanwhile there is plenty of political maneuvering to subvert the Holy War to others' ends and the Fanim continue to present a significant threat to the whole operation (not that I can blame them, after all, they are GETTING INVADED BY A BUNCH OF RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS!!!!!). All in all a great read even if the shortcomings of the first book have yet to be mitigated.
And, as always, some choice quotes:
Always Be Closing: Glory doesn't vouchsafe glory. The unthinkable can always come to pass.
I feel like St. Anselm would agree with this sentiment: All men are greater than dead men. -Ainoni Proverb.
They maybe be zealots, but they are zealots on a budget: "If blasphemers kill blasphemers, then we're saved oil and wood."
I mean, I guess there is a distinction there: Heathens, Uranyanka would latter tell Chepheramunni, he could tolerate, but treacherous heathen he could not forbear. [In this case not being able to forbear them means slaughtering them to the man.]
Why the separation of Church and state also protects the church side of the equation: Dead prophets were useful, because one could rule in their name. But live prophets?
Thus far the reread project is going smashingly, this was energetic and engaging. I am definitely appreciating the more subtle themes Bakker is laying out and can appreciate just what he is trying to accomplish with his characters' plot arcs, something I don't think I fully grasped the first time through.
July 15, 2024
4.0 Stars
Another solid installment in this post apocalyptic military fantasy series.
Another solid installment in this post apocalyptic military fantasy series.
July 7, 2009
I should probably make a shelf named "Abandoned" because thats what this book is ending up as. I made it about half way and just cant bring myself to pick it up anymore.
To call this a painful read is an understatement! I would give it negative stars if I could. Every single character in the story has been reduced to completely despicable stereotypes, leaving not a single likable thing about the story untouched.
As the rest of the storyline is about the atrocities of marching an army from point a to point b there isn't anything worth reading this book left.
Boo on you Mr Bakker for taking an interesting idea and grinding it to a pulpy mass of horse shit (and if I were quoting him, I would add something about evisceration and cum).
To call this a painful read is an understatement! I would give it negative stars if I could. Every single character in the story has been reduced to completely despicable stereotypes, leaving not a single likable thing about the story untouched.
As the rest of the storyline is about the atrocities of marching an army from point a to point b there isn't anything worth reading this book left.
Boo on you Mr Bakker for taking an interesting idea and grinding it to a pulpy mass of horse shit (and if I were quoting him, I would add something about evisceration and cum).
June 16, 2024
Scott Bakker is officially one of my favorite authors.
This book was awesome from the start and only got better. The characters have been introduced in the first book, we know their back story, we know them...and now they're all together. One thing I love about this book is how characters CHANGE due to their circumstances. Characters who've felt betrayal so strong they just die inside, characters that literally go mad.
I'm not a fast reader but I read the first one in 7 days and this in 10. The tale is captivating, the world alluring, and the characters...Achamian, Kellhus, Cnauir, Esmenet, Conphas, Proyas, Xinemus so many more intriguing characters. Grey characters, all with motives you can reasonably understand.
It was fun to see Kellhus manipulate the Holy War. Achamians wrath when moved to anger. And Cnauir, the most violent of all men, breaker of men and horses, stare down scores of enemies and scream "who? who will murder me!"
This book had so many epic moments. A tension packed, nail biting encounter between Kellhus and Cnauir at the Meneanor sea a stand out scene.
Deserves nothing less than 5 stars and its On to the next one!
This book was awesome from the start and only got better. The characters have been introduced in the first book, we know their back story, we know them...and now they're all together. One thing I love about this book is how characters CHANGE due to their circumstances. Characters who've felt betrayal so strong they just die inside, characters that literally go mad.
I'm not a fast reader but I read the first one in 7 days and this in 10. The tale is captivating, the world alluring, and the characters...Achamian, Kellhus, Cnauir, Esmenet, Conphas, Proyas, Xinemus so many more intriguing characters. Grey characters, all with motives you can reasonably understand.
It was fun to see Kellhus manipulate the Holy War. Achamians wrath when moved to anger. And Cnauir, the most violent of all men, breaker of men and horses, stare down scores of enemies and scream "who? who will murder me!"
This book had so many epic moments. A tension packed, nail biting encounter between Kellhus and Cnauir at the Meneanor sea a stand out scene.
Deserves nothing less than 5 stars and its On to the next one!
December 16, 2023
It's a curse with reviews for this series. Once again I wrote it, was very happy and then my Browser decided to not save any of the text - all gone. I hate my life...
But what I don't hate at all is: *drumroll*
This book! Bakker as an author! Prince of Nothing as a series! Suprising revelation, isn't it?
But seriously, 'The Warrior Prophet' hit me as its predecessor did - in both the same ways as well as new ones. The book felt vastly different than book 1, as many a thing is adapted to fit the focus of this book. It's different yet recognizable, obviously. Improving some parts, leaving out others, making it in general about as good as 'The darkness that comes before'.
And short reminder: I consider that one a masterpiece and one of the best books I have ever read.
This one just cemented R. Scott Bakker as one of the greatest living/working authors for me. I adore this guy and it is so inspiring for me and my own writing - even if he is simply on a different level on intellect and literary understanding. But this is what I love about reading and about writing. Stories like this, books like this, characters like this.
I'll continue with talking a bit more about what I found was different here when compared to book 1, because that's the main debate going on in my head regarding this series.
Kind of reminds me of something like Sun-Eater in it's difference, where every book has a different focus on the thematic/narrative level and also how it deals with setting etc.
Because where 'The darkness that comes before' was mainly about introducing the characters in a bit of an Abercrombi'an way, mixing it with exciting intrigue and philosophical debate - setting the stage and the chess-pieces so-to-say; this one is way more focused on covering one specific aspect on the larger scheme; and that is war.
Where book 1 never showed the Holy War and basically ends with the Holy War beginning its march, this one covers the path it takes towards its goal and the eventual confrontation we are all waiting for.
We therefore get battle scenes/sequences that are among the best I have ever read on a pure literary standpoint. Because as you should be aware of, Bakker doesn't simply write battles. He writes *about* battles. *About* the terror and trauma and consequences to culture and human psyche. He weaves all this into his text on such a small pagecount, that I was beyond floored on multiple occasions. How he narrates these events that are larger than one single POV or viewpoint could comprehend was fascinating and - once again - inspiring.
But even more than war, the central element getting explored is the role of Kellhus.
And here's where my struggles with the book started - where I'd say it is a step beneath book 1.
I love Kellhus. Both as a character and a concept, as well as as a stylistic device and a pure flex by the author to pull somebody like him off.
But everything that makes out and defines his character has already been set up enough in book 1 - at least I felt so.
Never once did I question any of his validation as the prophet he is proclaimed by now. That was the point of how he was written in book 1, right? To see from his perspective, that he is something special and in some ways superior... That he has power over others.
But now, most of the book deals with how side-characters react to him, how they see him and figure out what is the deal with him. How his validation increases over time, what his actions cause for the unnamed individuals involved in the Holy War.
And every time somebody was questioning or exploring his validity - due to how he was already written to be seen by the reader - I couldn't help but simply think: duh.
I get why this has to be the focus. I also really dig where it is heading toward the ending of the book; can't doubt how heavy a finale it makes for. But still, the middle-section especially really dragged every time we got to someone directly involved with the position of Kellhus.
But about the rest I can't say anything but that it stays on the phenomenal level it already was. The characters and their arcs are so incredibly well written, conveived and presented.
Kellhus - despite of how redundant it felt for me - is always just a presence in the text as no one else.
Achamian goes through so much heartbreaking stuff; so many fascinating elements that flesh him out and transcend him/advance his arc forward. What happens in the later half especially was simply... Damn...
Esmenet - obviously connected to him in many ways - plays a big role in that.
Serwe continues to stunn me with how much balls it takes for an author to go as far as Bakker does with her. I'll pick this thought up later, but for now know, that how she views the world and especially how she sees and values herself was gut-clenching at times and really really heavy to read.
And now to Cnaiür; because he kind of seems like the black sheep in this book, as he has not nearly as much to do as in book 1 - barely anything to be perfectly honest. He participates in some battle-scenes, but apart from that there was no real journey for him, nothing pulling me through his parts in the book. Nothing terrible, he was always cool to read, but also never reaching much urgency or anything like that across multiple chapters - it was always a in-the-moment thing with him in this part of the story.
And finally I'd like to agree with the overall consensus on this series about it not being for everybody. Because it's dark.
Still not on a level that I'd find extreme, but then again, I'm maybe no measure for that... Still there are scenes and aspects of the series, that go in places, that I've never seen done by other authors. And especially not in this crude, literary perfection. I loved it, but I've heard people putting down books for lesser things.
The things that are considered normal in this world and how Bakker makes you totally immersed in even the most disturbing aspects is beyond fascinating to read, but gets really tough to read at times. I'll not go into deatil, but there is a certain scene with a character "talking" to his mother, with a kind of child-harem present... That one really made my jaw drop to the floor because holy shit was that sick (and NOT in the 'cool' way.)
Also what I previously mentioned about the character of Serwe and how she reflects on herself/sees herself might get too dark and painful for some. But again, personally I love stuff like this when it is pulled off by a master like Bakker.
Trauma, depression, nihilism, extentialism, madness, etc. bring it on I can take some more.
Beyond excited for book 3 - which I expect to be the big conclusion to this arc and finally the confrontation I thirst for for so long!
I'll repeat my statement from book 1 and demand you to read it. Malazan meets Dune, while being completely it's own thing.
But what I don't hate at all is: *drumroll*
This book! Bakker as an author! Prince of Nothing as a series! Suprising revelation, isn't it?
But seriously, 'The Warrior Prophet' hit me as its predecessor did - in both the same ways as well as new ones. The book felt vastly different than book 1, as many a thing is adapted to fit the focus of this book. It's different yet recognizable, obviously. Improving some parts, leaving out others, making it in general about as good as 'The darkness that comes before'.
And short reminder: I consider that one a masterpiece and one of the best books I have ever read.
This one just cemented R. Scott Bakker as one of the greatest living/working authors for me. I adore this guy and it is so inspiring for me and my own writing - even if he is simply on a different level on intellect and literary understanding. But this is what I love about reading and about writing. Stories like this, books like this, characters like this.
I'll continue with talking a bit more about what I found was different here when compared to book 1, because that's the main debate going on in my head regarding this series.
Kind of reminds me of something like Sun-Eater in it's difference, where every book has a different focus on the thematic/narrative level and also how it deals with setting etc.
Because where 'The darkness that comes before' was mainly about introducing the characters in a bit of an Abercrombi'an way, mixing it with exciting intrigue and philosophical debate - setting the stage and the chess-pieces so-to-say; this one is way more focused on covering one specific aspect on the larger scheme; and that is war.
Where book 1 never showed the Holy War and basically ends with the Holy War beginning its march, this one covers the path it takes towards its goal and the eventual confrontation we are all waiting for.
We therefore get battle scenes/sequences that are among the best I have ever read on a pure literary standpoint. Because as you should be aware of, Bakker doesn't simply write battles. He writes *about* battles. *About* the terror and trauma and consequences to culture and human psyche. He weaves all this into his text on such a small pagecount, that I was beyond floored on multiple occasions. How he narrates these events that are larger than one single POV or viewpoint could comprehend was fascinating and - once again - inspiring.
But even more than war, the central element getting explored is the role of Kellhus.
And here's where my struggles with the book started - where I'd say it is a step beneath book 1.
I love Kellhus. Both as a character and a concept, as well as as a stylistic device and a pure flex by the author to pull somebody like him off.
But everything that makes out and defines his character has already been set up enough in book 1 - at least I felt so.
Never once did I question any of his validation as the prophet he is proclaimed by now. That was the point of how he was written in book 1, right? To see from his perspective, that he is something special and in some ways superior... That he has power over others.
But now, most of the book deals with how side-characters react to him, how they see him and figure out what is the deal with him. How his validation increases over time, what his actions cause for the unnamed individuals involved in the Holy War.
And every time somebody was questioning or exploring his validity - due to how he was already written to be seen by the reader - I couldn't help but simply think: duh.
I get why this has to be the focus. I also really dig where it is heading toward the ending of the book; can't doubt how heavy a finale it makes for. But still, the middle-section especially really dragged every time we got to someone directly involved with the position of Kellhus.
But about the rest I can't say anything but that it stays on the phenomenal level it already was. The characters and their arcs are so incredibly well written, conveived and presented.
Kellhus - despite of how redundant it felt for me - is always just a presence in the text as no one else.
Achamian goes through so much heartbreaking stuff; so many fascinating elements that flesh him out and transcend him/advance his arc forward. What happens in the later half especially was simply... Damn...
Esmenet - obviously connected to him in many ways - plays a big role in that.
Serwe continues to stunn me with how much balls it takes for an author to go as far as Bakker does with her. I'll pick this thought up later, but for now know, that how she views the world and especially how she sees and values herself was gut-clenching at times and really really heavy to read.
And now to Cnaiür; because he kind of seems like the black sheep in this book, as he has not nearly as much to do as in book 1 - barely anything to be perfectly honest. He participates in some battle-scenes, but apart from that there was no real journey for him, nothing pulling me through his parts in the book. Nothing terrible, he was always cool to read, but also never reaching much urgency or anything like that across multiple chapters - it was always a in-the-moment thing with him in this part of the story.
And finally I'd like to agree with the overall consensus on this series about it not being for everybody. Because it's dark.
Still not on a level that I'd find extreme, but then again, I'm maybe no measure for that... Still there are scenes and aspects of the series, that go in places, that I've never seen done by other authors. And especially not in this crude, literary perfection. I loved it, but I've heard people putting down books for lesser things.
The things that are considered normal in this world and how Bakker makes you totally immersed in even the most disturbing aspects is beyond fascinating to read, but gets really tough to read at times. I'll not go into deatil, but there is a certain scene with a character "talking" to his mother, with a kind of child-harem present... That one really made my jaw drop to the floor because holy shit was that sick (and NOT in the 'cool' way.)
Also what I previously mentioned about the character of Serwe and how she reflects on herself/sees herself might get too dark and painful for some. But again, personally I love stuff like this when it is pulled off by a master like Bakker.
Trauma, depression, nihilism, extentialism, madness, etc. bring it on I can take some more.
Beyond excited for book 3 - which I expect to be the big conclusion to this arc and finally the confrontation I thirst for for so long!
I'll repeat my statement from book 1 and demand you to read it. Malazan meets Dune, while being completely it's own thing.
October 1, 2019
The Holy War continues its long march toward Shimeh to reclaim it back from the Heathens. Book 1 saw the insanely enormous gathering of soldiers, whores and slaves with only one battle being fought, which was disastrous for the Men of the Tusk. Book 2 progresses the story at a pretty decent pace with the violence and battle level turned all the way up to 11!
It’s a bit of a weird review to consider because at times The Warrior-Prophet annoyed me to the point of giving up (it was probably an empty threat) but at others i was in awe of the story the author was weaving. My biggest irritation is the number of factions and their intricate names. During some of the major battles i couldn’t figure out which side had the upper hand because keeping track of the factions and the side they’re fighting for is harder than it should be. That goes for the individual names also. I stopped trying to pronounce some of them and shortened them down to the first three letters!
Name length aside the Warrior-Prophet continues in the same excellent fashion as The Darkness That Comes Before. The political maneuvering and scheming, which i love to read in fantasy books, continues on its intriguing course with even more complexity and backstabbing than Book 1. I’m not a fan of long paragraphs of battles in books because rarely are they written well (Steven Erikson is the exception) . They’re usually clumsy, unoriginal, repetitive and predictable. Recently i read the The Empire in Black and Gold and the fight scenes were so boring to the point of sleep inducing and in fact put me off reading the rest of the series. For me, the less fighting the better. Thankfully Warrior-Prophet doesn’t go for the formulaic fight scenes and instead gives a descriptive overview of what’s happening on the battlefield. I particularly enjoyed the parts where Cnaiur urs Skiotha is watching the battle unfold before his eyes.
It’s a slow burn and took me a while to read as there are parts that lull and hang around too long but as with book 1 patience is required and the ultimate pay-off is worth the wait. The ending, although pretty dark and horrific, is brilliantly done and sets up book 3 superbly.
It’s a bit of a weird review to consider because at times The Warrior-Prophet annoyed me to the point of giving up (it was probably an empty threat) but at others i was in awe of the story the author was weaving. My biggest irritation is the number of factions and their intricate names. During some of the major battles i couldn’t figure out which side had the upper hand because keeping track of the factions and the side they’re fighting for is harder than it should be. That goes for the individual names also. I stopped trying to pronounce some of them and shortened them down to the first three letters!
Name length aside the Warrior-Prophet continues in the same excellent fashion as The Darkness That Comes Before. The political maneuvering and scheming, which i love to read in fantasy books, continues on its intriguing course with even more complexity and backstabbing than Book 1. I’m not a fan of long paragraphs of battles in books because rarely are they written well (Steven Erikson is the exception) . They’re usually clumsy, unoriginal, repetitive and predictable. Recently i read the The Empire in Black and Gold and the fight scenes were so boring to the point of sleep inducing and in fact put me off reading the rest of the series. For me, the less fighting the better. Thankfully Warrior-Prophet doesn’t go for the formulaic fight scenes and instead gives a descriptive overview of what’s happening on the battlefield. I particularly enjoyed the parts where Cnaiur urs Skiotha is watching the battle unfold before his eyes.
It’s a slow burn and took me a while to read as there are parts that lull and hang around too long but as with book 1 patience is required and the ultimate pay-off is worth the wait. The ending, although pretty dark and horrific, is brilliantly done and sets up book 3 superbly.
August 10, 2021
“Fate was but one more world-born subterfuge, another lie men used to give meaning to their abject helplessness.”
The Warrior Prophet picks up where the previous book left off, chronicling the events of the Holy War where the Inrithi march to reclaim their holy land of Shimeh from the heathens. I liked this book quite a bit more than the first one as it immediately felt more driven and progressed the story a lot further, with the first book detailing the complicated politics before the Holy War actually set off.
Bakker's prose is gorgeous, the sentences are very well constructed, especially in the way he describes broad, sweeping emotions and his usage of metaphors. The action and battle scenes are tense and great to read as well. The only issue I had with the large battles was keeping track of the various complicated names and factions on both sides. The pacing is quite slow, with there being a march, then a battle, then a march, and so on as the Holy War progresses. Each battle mostly feels distinct and separate from the others and so does each march, having its own hardships and ordeals to survive, meaning this didn't feel as repetitive as the structure indicates. The battles and sieges are usually never from the perspective of a common soldier or a fight, but from a sweeping vantage point describing large swathes of the armies clashing. Though it isn't usually my favourite way of describing battles, this perspective combined with the great writing made them very evocative and striking.
“No decision is so fine as to not bind us to its consequences. No consequence is so unexpected as to absolve us of our decisions. Not even death.”
The characters gain further depth in this book as well, I really enjoyed the Esmenet and Achamian PoVs, their characters were fleshed out more and their ordeals were also interesting to read. Their inner dialogue and motivations were really well done, so the character decisions they made felt realistic and not just for the sake of driving the story forward. Kelhus, while not being very deep, was fascinating to read about due to his specific skill-set and his careful manipulation of people, crowds, and events to project a certain image of himself to everyone. I do have some minor concerns over Kelhus seemingly being a perfect person, since in a few instances in this book his actions came off as a tad too unbelievable, but I will reserve judgement as those choices seem to be deliberately building his character in a certain direction.
The book also delves into some of the lore and history of the world and its various races, focusing on the events of the first Apocalypse and its repercussions. These were some of my favourite parts since ancient history is something I love and always look for in epic fantasy worlds, as it helps my immersion in the story and adds a layer of intrigue and mystery over the main story. It also deals with themes of religion, belief, and interweaves philosophy with the story very well. Some of my favourite quotes were the pre-chapter epigraphs that were either excerpts from in-world philosophical texts or religious documents.
“Doubt set men free. Doubt, not truth! Beliefs were the foundation of actions. Those who believed without doubting acted without thinking. And those who acted without thinking were enslaved.”
The political machinations continue as well, with most of the prominent leaders and generals of the army having their own agendas and motivations. This internal conflict helped maintain tension throughout the story, with people falling in and out of favour among the armies, helped along by manipulation of scripture and interpretations of their hardships as either punishments, blessings, or tests set by their God. The Consult and their minions also play a role in the background, with the various skin-spies and their influences in the War's politics. The book also briefly touches upon a few of the non-human races and other eldritch horrors in the end, and I'm very interested to see where that goes. Overall, a fantastic follow-up to the first book, and I'm quite intrigued to see how this arc will be wrapped up in The Thousandfold Thought. Truth shines!
April 3, 2013
This book delivered what The Darkness that Comes Before promised. Outlandish names for the various characters/sects/regions make more sense here and, as a result, the story feels more refined and seamless. In this second installment of the Prince of Nothing series, Bakker offers the reader fantastic scenes of action and depravity while continuing to weave plots through his interesting characters.
Many of the hardships which the army faces remind me of similar situations during Steven Erikson’s Malazan Book of the Fallen. For me personally it felt like Erikson went into too much detail when describing these situations and Bakker seemed to just skim the surface. In Erikson’s case I wanted the story to move on to something different because I was getting tired of being inundated with the same thing over and over. Bakker did a good job of making certain circumstances feel extreme and depressing, but I feel like he just didn’t go deep enough which ultimately made those scenes feel a little hasty for me.
I really enjoyed this book overall and can’t wait to see what happens in the third and final book in the Prince of Nothing series. The Warrior Prophet did a great job of building on what was established in the previous book, but at the same time adding enough intrigue to lure the reader on for the finale.
I’ll give this book a solid 4.5 stars rounded up to a 5.
Many of the hardships which the army faces remind me of similar situations during Steven Erikson’s Malazan Book of the Fallen. For me personally it felt like Erikson went into too much detail when describing these situations and Bakker seemed to just skim the surface. In Erikson’s case I wanted the story to move on to something different because I was getting tired of being inundated with the same thing over and over. Bakker did a good job of making certain circumstances feel extreme and depressing, but I feel like he just didn’t go deep enough which ultimately made those scenes feel a little hasty for me.
I really enjoyed this book overall and can’t wait to see what happens in the third and final book in the Prince of Nothing series. The Warrior Prophet did a great job of building on what was established in the previous book, but at the same time adding enough intrigue to lure the reader on for the finale.
I’ll give this book a solid 4.5 stars rounded up to a 5.
March 23, 2022
When I placed the interlibrary loan request for this book, I had no idea how difficult it would be to keep myself interested in it. It is definitely a book about a brutal war. The description of the sacking of Caraskand alone was horrible. The killing of children, the raping of women, and the senseless destruction of the city—they all turned my stomach. And when I turned from fiction and switched on the news, all I got was the bombardment of Ukraine by Russian forces. There was no escape.
What if Jesus hadn't proclaimed that the meek would inherit the earth? If he had never urged us to love our neighbours as we love ourselves? The titular warrior-prophet, Kellhus, assumes a very Christ-like role in this second book of Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. However, you cannot call him the Prince of Peace. He travels with the armies of the Holy War, holding court around his campfire each evening, talking with his “apostles" and gathering larger and larger audiences. He even has the two women, Esmi and Serwe, as his Mary and Martha. He communes with someone he addresses as Father.
I had intended to read the final book of this trilogy this year, but I now question whether I can stand to. If this book tells me anything, it's that war is abominable and I already know that. These days, I need more lightness and joy in my life and these epic fantasy war epics drag me down. It remains to be seen if I ever finish this series.
Book Number 447 of my Science Fiction and Fantasy Reading Project
What if Jesus hadn't proclaimed that the meek would inherit the earth? If he had never urged us to love our neighbours as we love ourselves? The titular warrior-prophet, Kellhus, assumes a very Christ-like role in this second book of Bakker's Prince of Nothing series. However, you cannot call him the Prince of Peace. He travels with the armies of the Holy War, holding court around his campfire each evening, talking with his “apostles" and gathering larger and larger audiences. He even has the two women, Esmi and Serwe, as his Mary and Martha. He communes with someone he addresses as Father.
I had intended to read the final book of this trilogy this year, but I now question whether I can stand to. If this book tells me anything, it's that war is abominable and I already know that. These days, I need more lightness and joy in my life and these epic fantasy war epics drag me down. It remains to be seen if I ever finish this series.
Book Number 447 of my Science Fiction and Fantasy Reading Project
March 28, 2024
So you finish The Darkness that Comes Before and you are thinking….
Man, that was really dark.
It can’t get possibly get darker than that.
Yet it most certainly does.
It’s uncomfortable as so many of these characters are horrid. The men are incredibly terrible in this world.
For all the flack The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant gets…this series is equally cringy. You look for the good to hopefully outshine the bad.
Hey even Jaime Lannister gets people behind him.
Saying all that…this is an absolutely mesmerizing epic. It’s lore, its land, its people and their beliefs.
The battles are absolutely insane. The depictions of the long marches and suffering along the way heartbreaking.
The otherworldly demons terrify. Magics at once frightening and dazzling.
Cnaiur. Simply an amazing and badass character.
I am beyond hooked now and cannot wait to tear into the finale!
Man, that was really dark.
It can’t get possibly get darker than that.
Yet it most certainly does.
It’s uncomfortable as so many of these characters are horrid. The men are incredibly terrible in this world.
For all the flack The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant gets…this series is equally cringy. You look for the good to hopefully outshine the bad.
Hey even Jaime Lannister gets people behind him.
Saying all that…this is an absolutely mesmerizing epic. It’s lore, its land, its people and their beliefs.
The battles are absolutely insane. The depictions of the long marches and suffering along the way heartbreaking.
The otherworldly demons terrify. Magics at once frightening and dazzling.
Cnaiur. Simply an amazing and badass character.
I am beyond hooked now and cannot wait to tear into the finale!
July 18, 2022
My review on YouTube: https://youtu.be/XDYkWwCu2yk
Wow. The character work in this book is excellent. All I’m going to say is that I think Cnaiur is one of the most well-written characters of the series so far (and a new favourite). So many layers packed into one person. I also enjoyed the pacing of this one more as there is, naturally, more happening compared to book one.
I’ll be doing a full review soon but man, am I excited to pick up book three in April.
Wow. The character work in this book is excellent. All I’m going to say is that I think Cnaiur is one of the most well-written characters of the series so far (and a new favourite). So many layers packed into one person. I also enjoyed the pacing of this one more as there is, naturally, more happening compared to book one.
I’ll be doing a full review soon but man, am I excited to pick up book three in April.
August 29, 2024
5 stars.
Book 1 was already great, but Book 2 was so much better.
I still however cant recommend this book to anyone in good conscience without hundreds of "just fyi - you should know this before getting into it".
Lots of commentary around religious idealism, idols, prophet-worshipping, controlling masses, manipulation. Lots of amazing action as well. Lots of personal moments as well that make you grieve for the characters. Lots of sadness all around.
Overall, this book was an amazing read. Very very insightful and thoughtful.
Book 1 was already great, but Book 2 was so much better.
I still however cant recommend this book to anyone in good conscience without hundreds of "just fyi - you should know this before getting into it".
Lots of commentary around religious idealism, idols, prophet-worshipping, controlling masses, manipulation. Lots of amazing action as well. Lots of personal moments as well that make you grieve for the characters. Lots of sadness all around.
Overall, this book was an amazing read. Very very insightful and thoughtful.
February 29, 2024
It certainly still feels like a book that would have been one large one, but also a middle book, since it also, much like the first, has slow world building and plot, and ends on a cliffhanger situation. The unease about the world ramps up as well, as The Consort moves from being unmasked, to being much more present.
Plus, the return of Aka! Hard won. I’m not sure anyone really bought he was killed last book but it’s still quite fun to have him back. Especially since he’s the closest thing to a hero, or sympathetic character, other than the women. But that’s kind of the point, and why it moves from a kind of tropey “evil”, into a much more comprehensive faction, or force. And it’s reinforced by the world building.
Because it’s dark fantasy, you can bet there’s mostly critiques of culture and society, and limitations of humanity, such as a very short memory. On the one hand you have Kellus, who has no real embodiment and whose powers come from philosophy and intellect, but is described as actually purging his personhood and any embodiment he once had in order to obtain it. On the other hand, The Consort is able to strive because they understand humanity in its animal form and outlast the memory of the generations that dealt with the primordial destruction of the larger evil force, possibly now tasked with rebuilding that ancient evil.
The narrative itself is written by Aka though. Itself a question, since the quotes in the book, and possibly the entire book, ostensibly, is the written record of an apocalypse. A second one. Bakker doesn’t really show what the answer to the philosophical questions are. He is more interested in showing the ways why there is no peace and why only terrible things happen with how culture, memory, and values are passed on. The nature of power interacting with those aspects are the “real” evil. Because otherwise humanity would be far more equipped to deal with these issues. Had they people like Nayoor, who learned of the Dunyain and grew from it, or people heeded the generational knowledge of the Consort, or paid attention to the philosophical aspects that Kellus was reared into, the Consort would be identified and much more easily dealt with.
But when either goes to an extreme, grow in power, they become monstrous rather than the tools people need to have some autonomy in the world.
Plot wise, more happens, but not so much as you’d expect in most books. Bakker is a slow burn kind of author. I already know from reading them all where it’s going, so I have a large sense of anticipation this time around. For first timers, I suspect, much like me, the strength of the prose and how novel the book is, probably will carry the reader through (or not).
Plus, the return of Aka! Hard won. I’m not sure anyone really bought he was killed last book but it’s still quite fun to have him back. Especially since he’s the closest thing to a hero, or sympathetic character, other than the women. But that’s kind of the point, and why it moves from a kind of tropey “evil”, into a much more comprehensive faction, or force. And it’s reinforced by the world building.
Because it’s dark fantasy, you can bet there’s mostly critiques of culture and society, and limitations of humanity, such as a very short memory. On the one hand you have Kellus, who has no real embodiment and whose powers come from philosophy and intellect, but is described as actually purging his personhood and any embodiment he once had in order to obtain it. On the other hand, The Consort is able to strive because they understand humanity in its animal form and outlast the memory of the generations that dealt with the primordial destruction of the larger evil force, possibly now tasked with rebuilding that ancient evil.
The narrative itself is written by Aka though. Itself a question, since the quotes in the book, and possibly the entire book, ostensibly, is the written record of an apocalypse. A second one. Bakker doesn’t really show what the answer to the philosophical questions are. He is more interested in showing the ways why there is no peace and why only terrible things happen with how culture, memory, and values are passed on. The nature of power interacting with those aspects are the “real” evil. Because otherwise humanity would be far more equipped to deal with these issues. Had they people like Nayoor, who learned of the Dunyain and grew from it, or people heeded the generational knowledge of the Consort, or paid attention to the philosophical aspects that Kellus was reared into, the Consort would be identified and much more easily dealt with.
But when either goes to an extreme, grow in power, they become monstrous rather than the tools people need to have some autonomy in the world.
Plot wise, more happens, but not so much as you’d expect in most books. Bakker is a slow burn kind of author. I already know from reading them all where it’s going, so I have a large sense of anticipation this time around. For first timers, I suspect, much like me, the strength of the prose and how novel the book is, probably will carry the reader through (or not).
June 21, 2022
Two books in and I can already say for sure, that this series is something special.
It feels like Malazan mixed with Dune, Iliad and a lot of nihilistic phylosophy. I love all of those things and Bakker managed to combine them and add some elements that this series has to offer on its own and it really is a masterpiece.
I even find it hard to review this, because it is just so different than anything I have ever read. I mean, there is amazing worldbuilding, mysterious lore, maybe the most poetic prose I have ever seen in a fantasy book, great story with plot twist, epic battles, well balenced pacing.. but somehow all of that feels like it is just secondary to the sheer weight of phylosophy, themes and subtext of the book.
And that's why I do not mind the extremely dark and nihilistic tone of the series. I think it would not work in almost any other fantasy, because it is just too hopeless and depressing, but because of all the layers of Bakker's writing, it is almost imposible not to be devoured by this.
It was not the most enjoyable read.. it can be very slow sometimes, it is super heavy and characters feel very "mythical" and non-relatable. But despite of that, it hits very very hard and it know I got lot more from it than I would get from some more enjoyable read.
I can not wait to read the third book. Even though I can already guess it is not gonna be happy expirience. 9/10.
It feels like Malazan mixed with Dune, Iliad and a lot of nihilistic phylosophy. I love all of those things and Bakker managed to combine them and add some elements that this series has to offer on its own and it really is a masterpiece.
I even find it hard to review this, because it is just so different than anything I have ever read. I mean, there is amazing worldbuilding, mysterious lore, maybe the most poetic prose I have ever seen in a fantasy book, great story with plot twist, epic battles, well balenced pacing.. but somehow all of that feels like it is just secondary to the sheer weight of phylosophy, themes and subtext of the book.
And that's why I do not mind the extremely dark and nihilistic tone of the series. I think it would not work in almost any other fantasy, because it is just too hopeless and depressing, but because of all the layers of Bakker's writing, it is almost imposible not to be devoured by this.
It was not the most enjoyable read.. it can be very slow sometimes, it is super heavy and characters feel very "mythical" and non-relatable. But despite of that, it hits very very hard and it know I got lot more from it than I would get from some more enjoyable read.
I can not wait to read the third book. Even though I can already guess it is not gonna be happy expirience. 9/10.
September 1, 2013
I hope the "bad guys" win because this world needs to end. Of the major Characters only Achamian has any real redeeming qualities. Basically I hope that GRRM writes the third book and kills everybody off.
July 8, 2022
Wow, don't know what to say really. This is really unique, can't say I've read anything like it. This fantasy series is not for everyone, that's for sure. Anyway, I have no idea what's going to happen, and I love it
February 6, 2017
If I were to describe this book with one word, it would be EPIC.
September 21, 2023
I haven't lost sleep over a book in a long time, but I simply cannot put this series down. I have no doubt it's going to be my favorite trilogy of all time. I don't love everything about it - I am not a fan of big battle scenes, or MASSIVE amounts of factions and characters - so yes, there are long stretches I will skim, because I just can't handle some of the long chapters of the dozens of near incomprehensible fantasy names and kingdoms playing war, but I am impressed by everything nonetheless, and I wouldn't remove the parts that I gloss over because I know they are crucial to the story: the series really feels like an ancient history book, a holy book (honestly, so much of it reminds of the bible lol), a philosophy book, and an epic fantasy book. It's nuts that the author achieved so much. It's so much more than an enjoyable fantasy series: in each book the amount of wisdom contained could rival a whole shelf of philosophical texts. And yet it's still that: an enjoyable fantasy series. The payoffs are incredible. The consistency is incredible.
The vulgar think the God by analogy to man and so worship Him in the form of the Gods. The learned think the God by analogy to principles and so worship Him in the form of Love or Truth. But the wise think the God not at all. They know that thought, which is finite, can only do violence to the God, who is infinite. It is enough, they say, that the God thinks them.
-MEMGOWA, THE BOOK OF DIVINE ACTS
The vulgar think the God by analogy to man and so worship Him in the form of the Gods. The learned think the God by analogy to principles and so worship Him in the form of Love or Truth. But the wise think the God not at all. They know that thought, which is finite, can only do violence to the God, who is infinite. It is enough, they say, that the God thinks them.
-MEMGOWA, THE BOOK OF DIVINE ACTS
April 1, 2015
Second time through, and as an audiobook, I enjoyed more than the first time.
I think it's better than the first book too. However, like Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars, or even the first two Hunger Games movies, the second can only be better due to building on the first. Building on the story and characters.
Kellhus is fucking terrifying. Probably one of the best villains in any fantasy book I've read. Also, weirdly, one of the best heroes.
Full review on my podcast, SFBRP episode #269.
I think it's better than the first book too. However, like Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars, or even the first two Hunger Games movies, the second can only be better due to building on the first. Building on the story and characters.
Kellhus is fucking terrifying. Probably one of the best villains in any fantasy book I've read. Also, weirdly, one of the best heroes.
Full review on my podcast, SFBRP episode #269.
Read
December 23, 2023Why I read this:
The Darkness that Comes Before blew me away and I dove straight into The Warrior-Prophet.
My Impression:
Kellhus, the so-called ‘Warrior Prophet’ is an interesting character. He is Dunyain, which means he has ‘Bene Gesserit style’ powers of intuition that see him become a formidable force in the midst of the Holy War.
I found it fascinating the way Bakker draws on the early Christian era¬–a period of Gnostic sects and babbling tongues–where (in this world) Kellhus becomes a clear note sounding in the din. For the reader, allusions to Jesus as a charismatic figure are complicated by the fact that Kellhus rouses the hearts of others in order to achieve his own ends. He moves people in ways that feel genuine to them but, for Kellhus, emotion is a calculable science. Like the mysterious and godlike father that he journeys to see, Kellhus’ motivations are (at present) inhuman and unknowable. And like the truly terrifying demonic forces at play, Kellhus moves through people, revealing hidden truths and desires.
Craft-related notes:
-I am in awe of Bakker. There were moments toward the end of this book where I literally had shivers running down my spine. The detail, the descriptions, the epic brutality of this world he has created…it is unlike anything I have ever read before. Though, if I had to compare it to something, it would certainly be Dune. Both books achieve moments of intense psychological intimacy (suspicion, subterfuge, insight) in character interactions, but beneath it all there are epic forces at work and a sense of philosophical/spiritual urgency that is less about saving the world than unlocking the essential mystery of existence.
The Darkness that Comes Before blew me away and I dove straight into The Warrior-Prophet.
My Impression:
Kellhus, the so-called ‘Warrior Prophet’ is an interesting character. He is Dunyain, which means he has ‘Bene Gesserit style’ powers of intuition that see him become a formidable force in the midst of the Holy War.
I found it fascinating the way Bakker draws on the early Christian era¬–a period of Gnostic sects and babbling tongues–where (in this world) Kellhus becomes a clear note sounding in the din. For the reader, allusions to Jesus as a charismatic figure are complicated by the fact that Kellhus rouses the hearts of others in order to achieve his own ends. He moves people in ways that feel genuine to them but, for Kellhus, emotion is a calculable science. Like the mysterious and godlike father that he journeys to see, Kellhus’ motivations are (at present) inhuman and unknowable. And like the truly terrifying demonic forces at play, Kellhus moves through people, revealing hidden truths and desires.
Craft-related notes:
-I am in awe of Bakker. There were moments toward the end of this book where I literally had shivers running down my spine. The detail, the descriptions, the epic brutality of this world he has created…it is unlike anything I have ever read before. Though, if I had to compare it to something, it would certainly be Dune. Both books achieve moments of intense psychological intimacy (suspicion, subterfuge, insight) in character interactions, but beneath it all there are epic forces at work and a sense of philosophical/spiritual urgency that is less about saving the world than unlocking the essential mystery of existence.
January 10, 2022
another 5-star book for me from r Scott Bakker. again I can't really find anything about this book I did not absolutely love I read somewhere he said he had 20yrs to write the first book the made a deal to write the second book in one year but as far as I could tell the warrior prophet was just as good in every way and even felt more seamless I guess with most of the povs happening in close proximity and at the same time I got a deeper view of this world with the march south and some much-appreciated backstory of the places and battles fought and some of the best character writing iv come across yet. i can see how r scott bakker is mentioned in the same way as steven erikson and g r r marten as this is truly a GRIMDARK series I am almost sure this will end up being on of those series I look back on and say... damn I wish I could experience that whole series again for the first time. also the prose is some of the best that iv ever read that I find myself reading sentences two or even three time just to get a taste of what is being said/shown/lived it is really a treat its books like this that make me grateful to be a fantasy reader for me there is no mediem id rather experience just phenomenal
June 5, 2012
Many threads of the previous entry to the series were brought together at its conclusion, and this volume continues this rather original story with a more unified and committed spirit. It may be exactly because it was more straightforward and linear that I found The Warrior Prophet somewhat simplistic compared to The Darkness that Comes Before. Certainly other problems in the volume were compounded by the approach and came across too keenly.
The battles are up to par and I continue to enjoy the way Bakker intersperses sweeping third person omniscient accounts between character viewpoints during such events. However I felt the courtly intrigues lacked a certain subtlety and depth thought assured for the series based on the previous installment. There were not enough changes of scenery, true enough, but this would not have been a worry had not previously promising characters also appeared flat and unremarkable (in even the Holy War scenes).
Another objection I have is that what seems to be the author's own voice comes through with increasing strength through the book, pervading even the otherwise excellent character portraits and slanting them a certain way, almost compromising the diversity set up in the previous volume. Herbert and Tolkien, authors Bakker professes to be inspired by, were masters at tracelessly subsuming their own voice into a narrative, and it is here that Bakker falls short in this volume. It may be, given how the first did not suffer from this problem, that this installment was too rushed and the author didn't have time to refine some of the viewpoints.
Bakker is at times preoccupied with the word (and perhaps the associated idea) 'intellect' (in a similar way that Goodkind is preoccupied with the naive Randian ideology that positively drips from his Sword of Truth series, though the present book is not nearly as bad as that). He doesn't seem to find it particularly necessary to be nuanced or clever about hinting at it either and this too compromises the diversity in some of the characterisations from the first novel. Nowhere is this more apparent than with Kellhus and the admiring eyes of those around him. An author should have some compassion towards his protagonist, but to seemingly worship him and what he represents in every perspective in much the same way is a sure path to disaster. It is overdone on the whole, but sometimes what Bakker is trying to convey comes through- particularly in Kellhus's own viewpoint sections, exactly because it is only in these that the universal admiration of him for this one thing is lifted. This is also where the truth of what this man Kellhus is comes through, perhaps even better than through the Scylvendi's perpetually suspicious eyes (who is also in a kind of stasis here, no matter that he tends to be more noticeably waxing and waning in his moods than other characters). These too-rare shifts can serve as reminders to the reader that the story need not spiral into utter predictability (doubts on which I think the success of the series hangs), though at times patience wears thin, not because things are going the protagonist's way, but because the character voices become muddled and colourless, valuing the same things in much the same way.
The 'magic system' however, continues to intrigue, though I would be disappointed indeed if the mechanics of it haven't actually been thought out beyond vague epistemological references. Seeming great progress is made with Achamian's character, though it remains to be seen whether he degenerates to his former pathetic self on reuniting with the Holy War and the surprises in store for him there. Perhaps opinion will vary regarding Esmenet, but I felt she was made to yield to the shallow longings in her that she might yet have overcome just for the sake of turning her loyalties for plot purposes (confirming her former occupational epithet in a more fundamental way for as much as The Darkness that Comes Before seemed to try to distance her character from it and make her seem more). Not much that is notable was achieved with the Scylvendi, Ikurei Conphas or Serwe, though some side characters like Proyas and Xinemus are tested (but again there's a sense of faltering execution).
While I felt this was a bit of an unimaginative stretch for the story, the first book well established that the potential for more is definitely here, and for all these faults The Warrior Prophet is still a worthwhile read if only in order to follow the series (not even counting the excellent prose of the narrative, still well-delivered here), which is thus far better than most popular generic fantasy titles available today. I only hope that Bakker continues to avoid the pitfall Martin now nests comfortably in, that of forcing circumstances a certain way (sometimes even nonsensically) just to keep things 'edgier' than ever. This series is certainly bleak in many ways, but it's the idea of what's happening, the inevitable rise of the eponymous character who is deceit embodied, unsuspected by those he is in the midst of and the illusions and conceits at work with these men and women that makes it so, more than a few sensational happenings in the backdrop of a familiar setting occupied by insufferably morally ambiguous or just whiny characters about whom a reader is hard pressed sometimes to bring themselves to care.
The battles are up to par and I continue to enjoy the way Bakker intersperses sweeping third person omniscient accounts between character viewpoints during such events. However I felt the courtly intrigues lacked a certain subtlety and depth thought assured for the series based on the previous installment. There were not enough changes of scenery, true enough, but this would not have been a worry had not previously promising characters also appeared flat and unremarkable (in even the Holy War scenes).
Another objection I have is that what seems to be the author's own voice comes through with increasing strength through the book, pervading even the otherwise excellent character portraits and slanting them a certain way, almost compromising the diversity set up in the previous volume. Herbert and Tolkien, authors Bakker professes to be inspired by, were masters at tracelessly subsuming their own voice into a narrative, and it is here that Bakker falls short in this volume. It may be, given how the first did not suffer from this problem, that this installment was too rushed and the author didn't have time to refine some of the viewpoints.
Bakker is at times preoccupied with the word (and perhaps the associated idea) 'intellect' (in a similar way that Goodkind is preoccupied with the naive Randian ideology that positively drips from his Sword of Truth series, though the present book is not nearly as bad as that). He doesn't seem to find it particularly necessary to be nuanced or clever about hinting at it either and this too compromises the diversity in some of the characterisations from the first novel. Nowhere is this more apparent than with Kellhus and the admiring eyes of those around him. An author should have some compassion towards his protagonist, but to seemingly worship him and what he represents in every perspective in much the same way is a sure path to disaster. It is overdone on the whole, but sometimes what Bakker is trying to convey comes through- particularly in Kellhus's own viewpoint sections, exactly because it is only in these that the universal admiration of him for this one thing is lifted. This is also where the truth of what this man Kellhus is comes through, perhaps even better than through the Scylvendi's perpetually suspicious eyes (who is also in a kind of stasis here, no matter that he tends to be more noticeably waxing and waning in his moods than other characters). These too-rare shifts can serve as reminders to the reader that the story need not spiral into utter predictability (doubts on which I think the success of the series hangs), though at times patience wears thin, not because things are going the protagonist's way, but because the character voices become muddled and colourless, valuing the same things in much the same way.
The 'magic system' however, continues to intrigue, though I would be disappointed indeed if the mechanics of it haven't actually been thought out beyond vague epistemological references. Seeming great progress is made with Achamian's character, though it remains to be seen whether he degenerates to his former pathetic self on reuniting with the Holy War and the surprises in store for him there. Perhaps opinion will vary regarding Esmenet, but I felt she was made to yield to the shallow longings in her that she might yet have overcome just for the sake of turning her loyalties for plot purposes (confirming her former occupational epithet in a more fundamental way for as much as The Darkness that Comes Before seemed to try to distance her character from it and make her seem more). Not much that is notable was achieved with the Scylvendi, Ikurei Conphas or Serwe, though some side characters like Proyas and Xinemus are tested (but again there's a sense of faltering execution).
While I felt this was a bit of an unimaginative stretch for the story, the first book well established that the potential for more is definitely here, and for all these faults The Warrior Prophet is still a worthwhile read if only in order to follow the series (not even counting the excellent prose of the narrative, still well-delivered here), which is thus far better than most popular generic fantasy titles available today. I only hope that Bakker continues to avoid the pitfall Martin now nests comfortably in, that of forcing circumstances a certain way (sometimes even nonsensically) just to keep things 'edgier' than ever. This series is certainly bleak in many ways, but it's the idea of what's happening, the inevitable rise of the eponymous character who is deceit embodied, unsuspected by those he is in the midst of and the illusions and conceits at work with these men and women that makes it so, more than a few sensational happenings in the backdrop of a familiar setting occupied by insufferably morally ambiguous or just whiny characters about whom a reader is hard pressed sometimes to bring themselves to care.
October 3, 2022
5 stars
I'm just numb at this point shielding me from the emotional damage
I'm just numb at this point shielding me from the emotional damage
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