Fantasy Aficionados discussion
Off Topic
>
Is there a correlation between religion and education?
You'd be surprised, man.
Something atheists from places other than America don't seem to get or realize is that religion is a pretty big deal here in the states. I'm not overstating this either. Our politicians, even though there is no religious test for office, almost have to claim some religion or another. Hell, we have states with laws on the books that bar any atheist from holding office.
It's a pretty big deal here, bud. Don't believe me, check out www.reddit.com/r/atheism sometime. You'll learn a lot about the state of things here in the US, as far as religion and atheism go.
So yeah, discussions like these will invariably end up in flames and locked, especially when you open up the floor with terms as volatile as the ones you used.
Something atheists from places other than America don't seem to get or realize is that religion is a pretty big deal here in the states. I'm not overstating this either. Our politicians, even though there is no religious test for office, almost have to claim some religion or another. Hell, we have states with laws on the books that bar any atheist from holding office.
It's a pretty big deal here, bud. Don't believe me, check out www.reddit.com/r/atheism sometime. You'll learn a lot about the state of things here in the US, as far as religion and atheism go.
So yeah, discussions like these will invariably end up in flames and locked, especially when you open up the floor with terms as volatile as the ones you used.
![carol. | 2616 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1307934801p1/3978225.jpg)
But Brandt, you did not open up a discussion meant to inspire debate. The phrase "I simply can’t understand why anyone, with a minimum of intelligence and independent thought, could be religious" borders on hate speech and inspires divisiveness, not thoughtful dialogue.
Actually, if you replace "religious" with other group of choice, it's clearly hate speech. Why don't you either edit your post or remove it?
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
And if Brandt can't imagine why anyone with a minimum of intelligence and independent thought could be religious, I'd suggest that he seek out some religious people and talk with them...respectfully.
![Traci](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1356372450p1/5024825.jpg)
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
Traci wrote: "I don't respect close minded people of any belief. And althiest are just as guilty of this than any religious person can be."
Better to say that close-minded people are everywhere and leave it at that.
@Brandt Starting a discussion by labeling the people you want to talk to "weak and stupid" is the wrong way to go.
I mean, seriously, if there was a guy I wanted to discuss something with I wouldn't walk up to him and start off saying, "You're an asshole and you smell funny, so let's talk about so-and-so".
This shouldn't be difficult to understand.
Better to say that close-minded people are everywhere and leave it at that.
@Brandt Starting a discussion by labeling the people you want to talk to "weak and stupid" is the wrong way to go.
I mean, seriously, if there was a guy I wanted to discuss something with I wouldn't walk up to him and start off saying, "You're an asshole and you smell funny, so let's talk about so-and-so".
This shouldn't be difficult to understand.
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
![Mach | 572 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1320180369p1/4656912.jpg)
There are people that don't think Obama should be president because they think he is muslim. I don't think i have ever heard our Primeminister or any other politician say anything about god, i am not sure if he is Christian to be honest.
Politicians in the US almost always end speeches with god bless america, there are even someplaces they don't teach evolution! i am not critisizing the US i am just saying the facts and i hope you guys don't shut this thread down.
We have threads for all kinds of topics why can't we discuss religion? it is in the off topic folder is it not?
![Traci](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1356372450p1/5024825.jpg)
No worries, Traci. :)
Mach wrote: "Everytime a debate starts the moderators have recently gone all Gestapo and shut them down."
Comparing people to Nazi's is just bad form, not to mention really, really insulting. Not to the person you're comparing, but to the people who died at the hands of actual Nazis.
Mach wrote: "Everytime a debate starts the moderators have recently gone all Gestapo and shut them down."
Comparing people to Nazi's is just bad form, not to mention really, really insulting. Not to the person you're comparing, but to the people who died at the hands of actual Nazis.
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
![Danielle The Book Huntress (gatadelafuente)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1709321655p1/1570669.jpg)
To answer your question, you can be a highly educated person and hold religious beliefs. I don't do research on these kinds of statistics, because it's not really relevant to me. However, there are significant people of post-graduate education who are religious. Not that they need to prove their credentials to hold an opinion on belief at any rate.
If you decide not to believe or to believe in something, you should take comfort in that and not feel the need to tear down other people's belief systems just because you disagree with them. It's called tolerance. Tolerance goes both ways, between believers and non-believers, and everyone in between.
Faith isn't a matter of intelligence. It's a matter of the choice to believe. Believing doesn't make you stupid. Not believing doesn't make you more intelligent.
Mach, if this was truly a Gestapo state, we wouldn't even have threads in which you could post your opinions, so your comment simply doesn't apply.
![Mach | 572 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1320180369p1/4656912.jpg)
Mach wrote: "Everytime a debate starts the moderators have recently gone all Gestapo and shut them down."
Comparing people to Nazi's is just bad form, not to mention really, really insulting. Not to the person you're comparing, but to the people who died at the hands of actual Nazis. "
I was not trying to insult anyone, i was trying to make a comparison even though it was kind of extreme. Free speech is something i believe in and i hate how this group has recently gone from being a place for any kind of talk, to being a place where we have to watch out for what we say.
![Traci](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1356372450p1/5024825.jpg)
![whimsicalmeerkat | 0 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1694383494p1/4763195.jpg)
People hold the beliefs and opinions they do for a variety of reasons. Simple answer to the question you didn't actually ask. As with everything else in life, we all have a different story.
There is a distinct irony to the fact that you accused people of believing something because of a lack of education when you so clearly are ignorant of the subject of which you spoke.
![Anne | 54 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1537060507p1/5148783.jpg)
Using a study like the one above would probably have been a better way to start this discussion. It points out that secular nations outscore religious nations in virtually all measures of well-being. There is also plenty of evidence that non-religious people have higher average IQs and are better educated than their religious peers. The college educated people who do remain religious are far less likely to belong to the fundamentalist/evangelical sects of any religion and are far more tolerant towards different beliefs(lots of studies show this, but I didn't track one down this morning).
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
There is a meme out there to the effect that religious people are close-minded and ignorant. This belief is held by people who are not religious. Humans appear to have an innate need to believe in something.
As for moderators shutting down debates, I've seen it happen twice. This is not a completely public forum, and I recognize that they have the right to do so, but it does appear unseemly at times.
![Patricia (pg4003)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1291248297p1/3252519.jpg)
I'm a practicing Catholic and I believe very much in my religion and my God and that there is something better waiting for us after this life. And even though I don't agree with atheists and don't understand how they can believe the way they do, I respect their right to believe it.
But I don't think atheists are any more educated than I am just because they believe differently than I do. Likewise, you shouldn't think that I'm uneducated just because I believe in God and practice my religion...I spent 12 years being educated in the Catholic faith. I believe in it and frankly I don't care if other people do or not, it's my choice.
![whimsicalmeerkat | 0 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1694383494p1/4763195.jpg)
And based on the s..."
Neither of those are a synonym for stupid.
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
![Mach | 572 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1320180369p1/4656912.jpg)
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
'In the beginning, there was nothing, which exploded.'
Which prompts me to wonder what caused something to come from nothing. Every religion has some sort of Creation myth. I find it interesting that the scientific one so closely resembles a line from the Old Testament: 'And God said, 'Let there be light', and there was light.'
![Patricia (pg4003)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1291248297p1/3252519.jpg)
![Laurel](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1315615381p1/1079533.jpg)
My issue is with the comment that those who were persecuted are now all dead, so they won't care. I hope that you'll remember the way you rattled off those words, and ponder them as you go forward in life. It is my dear hope that you one day realize that people still, and hopefully, always will care. Please re-think the use of that term to describe others, and reflect upon your casual use of it. I mean it with my deepest sincerity.
![whimsicalmeerkat | 0 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1694383494p1/4763195.jpg)
Brandt - no one here has tried to censor you or this discussion. People have said that the way in which you raised the topic was offensive and have suggested that there may be better forums, but no one has told you you can't discuss it. People have asked for respect.
The things people believe the most strongly do tend to provoke controversy when trampled or attacked because those are the things they believe. Is that truly a difficult concept? You don't seem like you're just trolling. You are most definitely attacking an entire group of people. There's no reason to do that.
![Laurel](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1315615381p1/1079533.jpg)
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
Even mentioning the N***s provokes strong reactions in some people, so let me offer as a negative example in their place: Communism as practiced by Josef Stalin, Mao Tse-Tung, and Pol Pot. Officially, none of those men believed in a god of any kind. They caused multitudes of their countrymen to cease caring about anything by rendering them dead, in pursuit of the scientific principles of Marxism.
![MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 7282 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1475772748p1/4702933.jpg)
1. All people's beliefs will be respected in this group. Both religious and not. Keep the conversation respectful. There has been a lot of requests for respect in this thread, I suggest the requests are heeded.
2. There has been several complaints about lack of moderation in this group. As well as a request for more stringent moderation. If this thread gets out of hand or offensive, it will be shut down.
![whimsicalmeerkat | 0 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1694383494p1/4763195.jpg)
![whimsicalmeerkat | 0 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1694383494p1/4763195.jpg)
And i don't think you have understood a word of what i have said.."
She disagreed with you and was offended by what you said. That has nothing to do with a lack of understanding.
![MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 7282 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1475772748p1/4702933.jpg)
And i don't think you have understood a word of what i have said.."
And we're done. You don't follow directions very well, do you?
Once more before I shut down this thread:
1. All people's beliefs will be respected in this group. Both religious and not. Keep the conversation respectful. There has been a lot of requests for respect in this thread, I suggest the requests are heeded.
2. There has been several complaints about lack of moderation in this group. As well as a request for more stringent moderation. If this thread gets out of hand or offensive, it will be shut down.
![MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 7282 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1475772748p1/4702933.jpg)
And i don't think you have understood a word of what i have said.."
You know what, this is not ok here. You are not allowed to speak to anyone here like that.
![Patricia (pg4003)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1291248297p1/3252519.jpg)
![MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 7282 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1475772748p1/4702933.jpg)
And I don't really care what you're tired of. You are barely active within this group but you want to "start a discussion" which is much more like a long insulting rant. You don't spend enough time in this group to understand it's dynamics, so let me explain it to you so that you can understand:
1. You are being very insulting.
2. We don't like insulting.
3. You need to take better care when choosing your words or I will shut down this thread.
![whimsicalmeerkat | 0 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1694383494p1/4763195.jpg)
You not only started the conversation wrong, you are continuing to be derisive and you have ignored multiple requests that you change the title of the thread.
I am not interested in getting into a discussion with you of my personal beliefs. I can assure you, however, that I am intelligent enough, well-read enough, and have put enough thought into these matters to accurately classify my beliefs.
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
I would not like to see this thread shut down, because I think it could promote some interesting discussions. Will some be offended by those discussions? Probably. Would that be a reason to shut it down? I don't know. I'm not clear as to what constitutes grounds for termination.
![MrsJoseph *grouchy* (mrsjoseph) | 7282 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1475772748p1/4702933.jpg)
Not respecting others beliefs and insulting people will shut this thread down quicker than a hot knife through butter.
There are more ways to contact moderators than just in-thread comments. We get PMs about these thread and this is a large group. Controversial is fine, insulting is not.
You and Denae and - when avoiding calling moderators Nazis - Mach are managing fine. Brandt needs to work a little harder to not be a jackass.
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
![whimsicalmeerkat | 0 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1694383494p1/4763195.jpg)
Ahahaha...you're just tilting at windmills with that. *sigh*
![S.J. Lewis (sjlewis) | 469 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442483709p1/3998303.jpg)
![The Pirate Ghost (Formerly known as the Curmudgeon) (pirateghost)](https://s.gr-assets.com/assets/nophoto/user/m_25x33-8a3530ed95c3dbef8bf215b080559b09.png)
Perhaps the difference is between Spirituality, and Religion. Not all spiritual people are religious, and not all religious people are spiritual.
but. Dead thread. Yep... I move on.
![Mike (the Paladin) (thepaladin) | 5387 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1528431476p1/2187043.jpg)
Just thought I'd let you all know we're out here reading.
![Mike (the Paladin) (thepaladin) | 5387 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1528431476p1/2187043.jpg)
Maybe we could discuss how intelligence and education effect the proclivity to read fantasy???? :)
Books mentioned in this topic
Death by Black Hole: And Other Cosmic Quandaries (other topics)Death by Black Hole: And Other Cosmic Quandaries (other topics)
Death by Black Hole: And Other Cosmic Quandaries (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Neil deGrasse Tyson (other topics)Neil deGrasse Tyson (other topics)
Neil deGrasse Tyson (other topics)
Don't do this, man. Especially not with such outright hostile terminology.
If you want a discussion, at least be respectful. Not of the religion, but of the people here who follow it that you're attempting to have the discussion with.
"Weak and stupid" is just flame bait, man...
EDITED TO ADD CONTEXT:
This post of mine was in reply to someone else who started this thread but decided to delete his post.
His post was, all things considered, a really shitty way to try and open up a discussion.
So, yeah.