Brain Pain discussion
Brain Pain Poetry
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Suggestions for "Brain Pain Poetry"
![Karen Witzler (kewitzler)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1427207218p1/2125591.jpg)
Poems of Fernando Pessoa , Spring Essence by Ho Xuan Huong translated by John Balaban
I am always re-reading H.D. and particularly this year Helen in Egypt which is a dual psychoanalysis of herself and Helen by Freud.
All of these deal in duality and multiple shifting personae. (I have only recently joined your group- apologies if these suggestions are not in line with your discussion.)
Karen wrote: "Some poetry on my TBR list for this year :
Poems of Fernando Pessoa , Spring Essence by Ho Xuan Huong translated by John Balaban
I..."
Thanks Karen! Pessoa is an excellent suggestion. I recently read his Antinous. H.D. also looks good. The Helen in Egypt is especially interesting to me since in my recent reading of the Histories of Herodotus, he mentions the story of Paris and Helen first landing in Egypt, but they would not let him depart with Helen.
Will also check out the Ho Xuan Huong poem.
Poems of Fernando Pessoa , Spring Essence by Ho Xuan Huong translated by John Balaban
I..."
Thanks Karen! Pessoa is an excellent suggestion. I recently read his Antinous. H.D. also looks good. The Helen in Egypt is especially interesting to me since in my recent reading of the Histories of Herodotus, he mentions the story of Paris and Helen first landing in Egypt, but they would not let him depart with Helen.
Will also check out the Ho Xuan Huong poem.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
William Butler Yeats, the later poetry. I'm particularly interested in reading "A Vision", which I haven't done, and then having it mind when approaching his late poems.
T. S. Eliot, The Four Quartets, Ash Wednesday
![Lily (joy1) | 350 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1299622105p1/3761150.jpg)
Among the "schools" (J.R./P.J. would probably cringe at that appellation) with representation are 1) The Vienna Group, 2) The Tammuzi Poets, 3) Cobra, 4) Concrete Poetry, 5) Some "Beat" Poets, 6) Some Oral Poets, 7) Postwar Japanese Poetry -- The Arechi & After (I especially enjoyed these last two sections.), 8) Neo-Avanguardi, 9) Some "Language" Poets, 10) The Misty Poets, and 11) Toward a Cyperpoetics. (I have probably missed one or more and there are other poets not specifically categorized.)
It is a fun volume to pull and read from alone or with a few friends or to a group (have done all three). Wiki entries can be found for a number of the "schools" listed. Certainly here are multitudes of experimentation with language and form. Poetry is not an area of literature to which I am attracted, but I do enjoy an hour or two here from time to time.
![Lily (joy1) | 350 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1299622105p1/3761150.jpg)
May be of interest: http://www.scribd.com/doc/30092661/A-...
Not very readable, from my screen, at least without some work, which I haven't tried yet. Will look for something in book form or more straightforward first.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
Poetry is not an area of literature to which I am attracted, but I do enjoy an hour or two here from time to time.
If you think about it, almost of literature is poetry or verse drama -- and far and away the dominant form until the mid-19th century. Prose fiction is the upstart, the fad, what the kids are reading, the current fashion. We can only hope the fashion will soon change and poetry magazines will outsell People and the lines in front of movie theaters disappear. At least, a boy can dream. :-)
![Lily (joy1) | 350 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1299622105p1/3761150.jpg)
One factor -- much easier to transmit in oral form with its inherent aids for memorization. After all, the printing press did not appear in Europe until almost the mid-1400's, less than 600 years ago.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
![Lily (joy1) | 350 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1299622105p1/3761150.jpg)
True enough!
(Now what do we know about story-telling before Linear A, circa 2000BCE, just to ponder the patterns a few seconds longer?) :-D
Hi all,
I've been thinking about how to approach poetry discussions here on BP.
First thought - alternating between contemporary poetry and older work. Let's call contemporary after 1960 for now. We're reading The Waste Land in March and early April, so looking for something newer, maybe by a living poet, for mid-April. Looking for suggestions and a volunteer to lead a discussion. Then, I'd like to go to something by Wallace Stevens after that. And so on.
Second thought - how to choose poems that are meaty enough to generate a good two week or more discussion. One possible way to do this is to choose a specific set of poems. For example, Rilke's Duino Elegies, which would give us a nice long read and plenty to discuss. I'm not actually proposing Rilke, just using him as an example.
Third thought - Is the Second thought worth thinking? What if there is a shorter poem that is really good, but might only yield a week or two of discussion? Is that an okay option?
Fourth thought - I officially recuse myself from leading any of the poetry discussions because I've never given them enough study to do a good job. Therefore, if there's a poet or poems you want to talk about, please raise your hand!
Okay, please share your ideas about how we can proceed with poetry discussions here...
PS. Would any of you be interested in Whitman's Leaves of Grass? Or in Emily Dickinson?
I've been thinking about how to approach poetry discussions here on BP.
First thought - alternating between contemporary poetry and older work. Let's call contemporary after 1960 for now. We're reading The Waste Land in March and early April, so looking for something newer, maybe by a living poet, for mid-April. Looking for suggestions and a volunteer to lead a discussion. Then, I'd like to go to something by Wallace Stevens after that. And so on.
Second thought - how to choose poems that are meaty enough to generate a good two week or more discussion. One possible way to do this is to choose a specific set of poems. For example, Rilke's Duino Elegies, which would give us a nice long read and plenty to discuss. I'm not actually proposing Rilke, just using him as an example.
Third thought - Is the Second thought worth thinking? What if there is a shorter poem that is really good, but might only yield a week or two of discussion? Is that an okay option?
Fourth thought - I officially recuse myself from leading any of the poetry discussions because I've never given them enough study to do a good job. Therefore, if there's a poet or poems you want to talk about, please raise your hand!
Okay, please share your ideas about how we can proceed with poetry discussions here...
PS. Would any of you be interested in Whitman's Leaves of Grass? Or in Emily Dickinson?
![Filipe Russo (russo) | 94 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442655258p1/1593250.jpg)
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
Ha! I don't think we know anything about story telling during the time of Linear A.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
Le bateau ivre (The Drunken Boat) by Arthur Rimbaud
Mallarmé but I'm not sure what
Rilke is an excellent idea -- Duino elegies or other
______
For more recent poetry I have the problem that what I know and like since 1950-60 isn't painful to the brain.
I for example love Kenneth Koch's "Fresh Air" but I can't imagine what would require elucidation. Or L. E. Sissman's, "A Death Place" which is one of my favorite poems, ever. But again, the chill and the wit are pretty front and center. As is the extraordinary power of the last two words.
![William Mego (willmego) | 119 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1623174627p1/7101513.jpg)
They Had Torn Off My Face at the Office
They had torn off my face at the office.
The night that I finally noticed
that it was not growing back, I decided
to slit my wrists. Nothing ran out;
I was empty. Both of my hands fell off
shortly thereafter. Now at my job
they allow me to type with the stumps.
It pleases them to have helped me,
and I gain in speed and confidence.
Ted Kooser
Flying at Night: Poems 1965-1985
University of Pittsburgh Press
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
Personally, I'm happy to discuss anything from Chaucer on up.
![William Mego (willmego) | 119 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1623174627p1/7101513.jpg)
I understand there will be the inevitable rounds of Elliot, Wallace Stevens, and E.E. Cummings (yes, capitals deliberate, he did it himself) and I'm more than prepared to reread them all. But there are so many good poets without such provenances whose work has layers and complexity and lots of room for interpretation and discussion.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
As I've said, my interest is in Eliot, Stevens and Yeats. Yes, and down the road I wouldn't mind giving Ashbury a try.
As for contemporary poets, the ones I like -- not that I'm all that widely read in contemporary poetry these days -- tend not to begin with difficult. They're far more straight forward than that.
Who are the three poets you'd like to see discussed?
But you're arguing with the wrong person on this. I didn't start the group. My own preference is for poetry that's not obscure -- but in the case of the truly great, I'll make an exception.
Will wrote: "One debate possibly worth having (I'm a passionate lover of poetry) is whether or not poems must be those that are notorious for their lack of clarity. Poetry by itself can be challenging to read d..."
Regarding this debate, reading poetry is a challenge for me, and probably for other members as well. The written word is somewhat easier in prose because, in general, prose follows the basic rules of grammar, punctuation, and tends to tell a story in a structured, unified way. Poetry, when written on the page, looks and acts different than prose. You most know "How" to read poetry - syllable stress, line breaks, unconventional punctuation, and so on.
I am reading a book by Phil Roberts called How Poetry Works and already, I'm finding it easier to read poetry just from the simple technique of finding the syllable stresses. World of difference for me!
Of course, we hear poetry all the time when we listen to songs. The singer hits the stresses, the instruments support the voice and voila! Poetry is marvelous! When Jim Morrison sings "End of the Night" we're listening to William Blake interpreted in the context of 1960's psychedelic music and it works just fine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB1gtP...
But it's written poetry that many find to be a challenge. With a bit of education about "How" to read poetry, many more people would enjoy it.
All that being said, I see no reason to seek out the most difficult poetry out there, but instead, find works that are challenging in terms of making us think and ponder about the nature of existence and what not.
There are a few suggestions that interest me, one being Helen in Egypt, a book-length poem related to an alternative imagining of The Iliad (thank you Karen!)
Rachel suggested a few contemporary poets and one which caught my attention is Alice Fulton. Two possibilities are Sensual Math and Cascade Experiment: Selected Poems.
Will, please share your suggestions for contemporary poetry that might work well in terms of meaty, thought-provoking discussions.
Regarding this debate, reading poetry is a challenge for me, and probably for other members as well. The written word is somewhat easier in prose because, in general, prose follows the basic rules of grammar, punctuation, and tends to tell a story in a structured, unified way. Poetry, when written on the page, looks and acts different than prose. You most know "How" to read poetry - syllable stress, line breaks, unconventional punctuation, and so on.
I am reading a book by Phil Roberts called How Poetry Works and already, I'm finding it easier to read poetry just from the simple technique of finding the syllable stresses. World of difference for me!
Of course, we hear poetry all the time when we listen to songs. The singer hits the stresses, the instruments support the voice and voila! Poetry is marvelous! When Jim Morrison sings "End of the Night" we're listening to William Blake interpreted in the context of 1960's psychedelic music and it works just fine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB1gtP...
But it's written poetry that many find to be a challenge. With a bit of education about "How" to read poetry, many more people would enjoy it.
All that being said, I see no reason to seek out the most difficult poetry out there, but instead, find works that are challenging in terms of making us think and ponder about the nature of existence and what not.
There are a few suggestions that interest me, one being Helen in Egypt, a book-length poem related to an alternative imagining of The Iliad (thank you Karen!)
Rachel suggested a few contemporary poets and one which caught my attention is Alice Fulton. Two possibilities are Sensual Math and Cascade Experiment: Selected Poems.
Will, please share your suggestions for contemporary poetry that might work well in terms of meaty, thought-provoking discussions.
![William Mego (willmego) | 119 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1623174627p1/7101513.jpg)
![The Poetry Home Repair Manual Practical Advice for Beginning Poets by Ted Kooser](https://s3.amazonaws.com/photo.goodreads.com/books/1173026023s/239231.jpg)
I'll be annoying one more time about this, then I promise I'll shut up and keep my heretical thoughts on poetry to myself:
In the Nursing Home
She is like a horse grazing
a hill pasture that someone makes
smaller by coming every night
to pull the fences in and in.
She has stopped running wide loops,
stopped even the tight circles.
She drops her head to feed; grass
is dust, and the creekbed’s dry.
Master, come with your light
halter. Come and bring her in.
(Kenyon, Jane. New and Selected Poems. St. Paul, Minnesota: Graywolf. 1996.)
Take the last two lines, where the brake of the sentence can be taken to mean both "Master, come with your light halter", continuing the general horse theme, or "Master, come with your light" to imply the divine. Even a simple or 'accessible' poem of only a few lines can contain so much.
![Ellie (elliearcher)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1399799985p1/2908629.jpg)
From the 50s, a favorite of mine is Charles Olson's The Maximus Poems. That would be an exciting read, I think. Maybe even in combination with Moby-Dick.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
![Ellie (elliearcher)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1399799985p1/2908629.jpg)
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
Then we hit the 20th century and we have Joyce and Virginia Woolf, Eliot, Stevens and Yeats. I personally think Yeats is THE major writer in the 20th century -- although Joyce is front and center. Woolf might as well be a poet.
Then suddenly we're at around 1965 and it's prose, prose, prose, prose, prose. Until the 1960s poetry also dominated what was studied in English departments. The dominant critical approach was the New Criticism with its microscopic close readings. You can write a 30 page essay on a three page poem. You can't write 16,000 pages on four novels of 400 pages each.
So the question is approach, here.
I wouldn't mind doing Helen in Egypt, since I'm reading the Iliad at the moment -- and just wrote some detailed paragraphs on Helen. :-)
I'd be happy to do Philip Larkin -- certainly one of the top ten poets of the last 50 years.
I'd love to John Berryman's The Dream Songs.
I'd be happy to do L. E. Sissman's Night Music
I'd be happy to do Elizabeth Bishop.
I'd happy to do The Maximums Poems. I'm close to finishing Moby-Dick which I love but it's too rich and complex and strange and -- I could go on. It will draw the focus. It's a glorious monster -- rather like the whale.
I'd be happy to go through Best Americans Poems 2011.
I'd be happy to do Chaucer and Paradise Lost.
I'd be happy to Elizabeth Bishop
I'd be happy Le bateau ivre
I'd be happy to do Fleurs du Mal
I'd be happy if we each collected our favorite ten poems of the past fifty years -- but we need enough people for that.
As well as all the other poets I've mentioned before both here and elsewhere. :-)
Poetry, my dear friends, is da bomb.
![Jeanne (jeanne_voelker)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442508828p1/1839857.jpg)
![William Mego (willmego) | 119 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1623174627p1/7101513.jpg)
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
Jim was talking about doing some major modernist poems -- e.g., "The Waste Land," discussion starting March -- and alternating the major poems with other more contemporary poems. And I'd throw in some older poems -- like Donne, who can be difficult -- but worth it.
OR -- what do people think of this: After "The Waste Land" we could have some of Helen in Egypt, some of Ted Kooser, some of The Maximus Poems, some L. E. Sissman's Night Songs, some of Jane Kenyon's poems.
That's five poets. If we did, say, four poems each, that's twenty poems. No onerous because these are, I think relatively short poems not necessarily obscure.
Or we could each pick a few favorite poems published after 1960 by different poets.
Whatcha think?
Just remember when it comes to poetic obscurity this extremely famous poem called, "I Know a Man" by Robert Creeley.
As I sd to my
friend, because I am
always talking, – John, I
sd, which was not his
name, the darkness sur-
rounds us, what
can we do against
it, or else, shall we &
why not, buy a goddamn big car,
drive, he sd, for
christ’s sake, look
out where yr going.
![Jeanne (jeanne_voelker)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1442508828p1/1839857.jpg)
I like the Robert Creely poem too. Much is implied, but I wouldn't call it obscure.
![Nancy Lewis (nancylewis) | 31 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1416698499p1/1610514.jpg)
Jane Kenyon wrote:
Master, come with your light
halter. Come and bring her in.
Will wrote: Take the last two lines, where the brake of the sentence can be taken to mean both "Master, come with your light halter", continuing the general horse theme, or "Master, come with your light" to imply the divine. Even a simple or 'accessible' poem of only a few lines can contain so much.
I know this was just for fun, Will, but I'd like to take a stab here. When I read the last line, instead of halter, I read falter. Could that have been her intention?
I know that in world languages, F and H are often interchangeable. For example, fava beans are sometimes called hava beans. Ferro and hierro both refer to iron... Just thinking out loud, really.
I spoke with the committee and here's their recommendation:
After The Waste Land, let's read Helen in Egypt. I recently read Homer, Sophocles, Aeschylus, and Herodotus and would very much be interested in reading this book-length poem. Herodotus tells the story that Helen never made it to Troy, and I'd like to read H.D.'s book to see what she does with that idea. Karen, since you proposed the poet, would you like to lead that discussion? Send me a message and we can discuss. Discussion could be scheduled for 4 or 5 weeks, since the book is listed as 300 pages.
After that, let's jump to the living (or nearly living). How about Jane Kenyon? Will, can you recommend a particular volume (still in print and generally available) by Kenyon? Ditto, would you be interested in leading the discussion? Again, 3 or 4 weeks, or more, depending on the length of the volume chosen.
Following that, I'd propose Wallace Stevens as he is someone I've heard much about, but not read. That would put us back in Modernist poetry for a few weeks.
Then back to contemporary, then maybe Donne, contemporary, Yeats, contemporary, The Maximus Poems, contemporary, etc...
The specific order after Wallace isn't particularly important to me, but I do think it would be a good idea to alternately look at our times and the past to keep the discussions fresh and diverse.
So, summary of the idea is:
1. Helen in Egypt
2. Jane Kenyon (or similar)
3. Wallace Stevens
Then do the back and forth between past and contemporary.
Please share your thoughts, for and against.
I usually don't support polls because it's a disappointment when your candidate doesn't win. Instead, I'd like us to discuss ideas and then maybe pass the decision stick to a member to select a volume by a given poet, then pass on the next selection to another member, and so on.
After The Waste Land, let's read Helen in Egypt. I recently read Homer, Sophocles, Aeschylus, and Herodotus and would very much be interested in reading this book-length poem. Herodotus tells the story that Helen never made it to Troy, and I'd like to read H.D.'s book to see what she does with that idea. Karen, since you proposed the poet, would you like to lead that discussion? Send me a message and we can discuss. Discussion could be scheduled for 4 or 5 weeks, since the book is listed as 300 pages.
After that, let's jump to the living (or nearly living). How about Jane Kenyon? Will, can you recommend a particular volume (still in print and generally available) by Kenyon? Ditto, would you be interested in leading the discussion? Again, 3 or 4 weeks, or more, depending on the length of the volume chosen.
Following that, I'd propose Wallace Stevens as he is someone I've heard much about, but not read. That would put us back in Modernist poetry for a few weeks.
Then back to contemporary, then maybe Donne, contemporary, Yeats, contemporary, The Maximus Poems, contemporary, etc...
The specific order after Wallace isn't particularly important to me, but I do think it would be a good idea to alternately look at our times and the past to keep the discussions fresh and diverse.
So, summary of the idea is:
1. Helen in Egypt
2. Jane Kenyon (or similar)
3. Wallace Stevens
Then do the back and forth between past and contemporary.
Please share your thoughts, for and against.
I usually don't support polls because it's a disappointment when your candidate doesn't win. Instead, I'd like us to discuss ideas and then maybe pass the decision stick to a member to select a volume by a given poet, then pass on the next selection to another member, and so on.
![Karen Witzler (kewitzler)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1427207218p1/2125591.jpg)
Karen wrote: "That sounds like a fine approach to me. I'd be happy to initiate and respond to discussion on Helen in Egypt and H.D.."
Great! Let's wait to hear from a few others for concurrence, then we'll discuss via message if it's a go...
Great! Let's wait to hear from a few others for concurrence, then we'll discuss via message if it's a go...
![Catherine (catjackson)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1389112838p1/4708718.jpg)
After The Waste Land, let's read Helen in Egypt. I recently read Homer, Sophocles, Aeschylus, and Herodotus and would very much be inter..."
Jim, this sounds like a very good plan. I've not read Helen in Egypt (in fact, I hadn't even heard of Helen in Egypt!) and am looking forward to reading the poem. That's one of the reasons I really like this group; I'm being introduced to some new-to-me very interesting, very rewarding reading.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
The Creeley poem is the opposite of obscure, it's a satire of obscurity. That's why I put it in.
![William Mego (willmego) | 119 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1623174627p1/7101513.jpg)
![Collected Poems by Jane Kenyon](https://s3.amazonaws.com/photo.goodreads.com/books/1316637392s/435058.jpg)
Regarding the halter question, I'd think she intended halter, since as a fellow Midwesterner, she shares our straightforward linguistic natures. Plus, the halter draws the specific imagery of bringing the horse in from pasture, the halter being used to attach the lead rope, suggesting she's hoping God will lead her Mother away from the fading, shrinking pasture. I think the brilliance of that line break is when you mentally consider the other options. Imagine the line complete and you still get the intention, the analogy of the grazing horse, but the line break adds so much by giving us that breath point (like the point in the score where a singer knows to inhale) that forces us to consider the divine for just a beat. Blows me away.
![Ellie (elliearcher)](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1399799985p1/2908629.jpg)
Ellie wrote: "If we choose a single volume of Kenyon's poems, I think The Boat of Quiet Hours is particularly lovely (and I happen to own it)"
According to the description for Kenyon's 'Collected Poems', it contains all of her published poetry, which would naturally include The Boat of Quiet Hours.
The question now is, Do we want to read her entire body of work? Or choose one volume?
Also, Will, in 'Collected Poems' are the poems organized to match the separate volumes? Or are they organized some other way?
According to the description for Kenyon's 'Collected Poems', it contains all of her published poetry, which would naturally include The Boat of Quiet Hours.
The question now is, Do we want to read her entire body of work? Or choose one volume?
Also, Will, in 'Collected Poems' are the poems organized to match the separate volumes? Or are they organized some other way?
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
Poetry is more compressed and intense You read fewer words, but you reread often, and bring your intelligence and imagination and empathy to them.
I say if we're not talking a very famous author who's written difficult poems, pick 15-20 poems and let the discussion leader make the selection.
I'm happy to purchase Kenyon's Collected Poems -- and then let the narrator make a pick. I read others as I choose or not choose.
I ordered both that and Helen in Egypt.
Bill wrote: "Yanno, people don't typically choose a volume of poems and read through. These aren't novels.
Poetry is more compressed and intense You read fewer words, but you reread often, and bring your inte..."
Oui, bien sûr!
For Kenyon, I don't know her work and so I don't know if there's any advantage to looking at poems that were originally grouped together as a single volume, of if it would be just as good to do a vertical tasting from throughout her career. TBD...
Looking forward in the schedule to Wallace Stevens, his The Collected Poems seems like a logical choice. As you suggest, we would leave it to the discussion leader to choose a set of poems to read.
Bill, I wouldn't want to impose on you a second time to lead a discussion, but if you're interested, I'll give you first dibs on Stevens. My guess is that we would get to him around July, maybe a little later.
Poetry is more compressed and intense You read fewer words, but you reread often, and bring your inte..."
Oui, bien sûr!
For Kenyon, I don't know her work and so I don't know if there's any advantage to looking at poems that were originally grouped together as a single volume, of if it would be just as good to do a vertical tasting from throughout her career. TBD...
Looking forward in the schedule to Wallace Stevens, his The Collected Poems seems like a logical choice. As you suggest, we would leave it to the discussion leader to choose a set of poems to read.
Bill, I wouldn't want to impose on you a second time to lead a discussion, but if you're interested, I'll give you first dibs on Stevens. My guess is that we would get to him around July, maybe a little later.
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
I'll be happy to take Stevens. As I've said, for moment, I'm a permanent volunteer for Eliot, Stevens and Yeats. Those are the major poets of the 20th century, at least in English, and they are difficult and modernist.
For Stevens, I'd recommend The Palm at the End of the Mind -- which is a selection and includes some things the Collected Poems don't (and vice versa). But I think either would have everything we'd want to look at out.
Bill wrote: "Here's where I think having a moderator/discussion leader helps. I don't know Kenyon either, but we have Kenyonistas here.
I'll be happy to take Stevens. As I've said, for moment, I'm a permanent..."
Thanks Bill! We'll revisit the Collected Poems vs. The Palm at the End of the Mind question in a few months time. Either is fine with me.
I'll be happy to take Stevens. As I've said, for moment, I'm a permanent..."
Thanks Bill! We'll revisit the Collected Poems vs. The Palm at the End of the Mind question in a few months time. Either is fine with me.
![Rachel | 81 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1488568165p1/6050722.jpg)
I'm a total sucker for the Moderns and the Language poets. I would jump at the chance to get into H.D., Yeats, Stevens, Eliot, Stein, Moore, Pound, and Williams as well as any of the current poets I brought up earlier, someplace, including Fulton, Mullen,and Philip. As Ellie mentioned, Susan Howe is fantastic, and if ever a poet fit this year's theme of literature that is challenging in its form, it is she.
I'm with Will, though: just because a poem isn't deliberately opaque does not mean that a quick read will uncover all its secrets. Interpreting poems that seem transparent at the outset can still be enriched from sharing multiple perspectives in a group discussion. So really, I'd be interested in reading any poet you guys feel fits the aims of this group.
Major cop-out alert: due to various baby-and-kid-related life complexities, I don't think I can reliably lead a discussion this year. But...bring it, 2013!!
Rachel wrote: "Major cop-out alert: due to various baby-and-kid-related life complexities, I don't think I can reliably lead a discussion this year. But...bring it, 2013!!.."
What!!?!?? You're letting real life interfere with your reading time!?? Horrors!
Okay, Alice Fulton in '13...
New baby on the way? Don't forget the Southern writer naming idea a la Amanda's twins, Atticus and Rhett...
What!!?!?? You're letting real life interfere with your reading time!?? Horrors!
Okay, Alice Fulton in '13...
New baby on the way? Don't forget the Southern writer naming idea a la Amanda's twins, Atticus and Rhett...
![Jt | 24 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1216963892p1/881195.jpg)
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12...
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18...
Both fairly accessible and readable. I'd say that both gave me a deeper emotional connection to The Iliad itself.
Reading poetry for me is an emotional experience, and a little like looking at an Impressionist painting - it's a word picture, and even if I don't understand the literal words or meanings, if I'm able to relax my brain enough to let the words flow over & through me, I'm left with an emotional response.
Jt wrote: "I recently read two books of Iliad-inspired (for lack of a better phrase) poetry:
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12...
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18...
Both fa..."
The Alice Oswald poem created a bit of a stir recently. What did you think of it?
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12...
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18...
Both fa..."
The Alice Oswald poem created a bit of a stir recently. What did you think of it?
![Bill (BillGNYC) | 443 comments](https://images.gr-assets.com/users/1318109455p1/6582436.jpg)
In a way, it attempts to turn The Iliad into a war memorial and I don't see the point.
Books mentioned in this topic
The Collected Poems (other topics)New Selected Poems and Translations (other topics)
The Collected Poems (other topics)
The Boat of Quiet Hours: Poems (other topics)
The Boat of Quiet Hours: Poems (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Jalal ad-Din Muhammad ar-Rumi (other topics)Ezra Pound (other topics)
Alfred Tennyson (other topics)
Arthur Rimbaud (other topics)
Charles Baudelaire (other topics)
More...
As a general guideline, suggest poems which in one way or another, present a challenge in theme and/or form and which are likely to generate interesting discussions. As always, please let us know why you're suggesting the poem and how it fits into the scheme of things here in Brain Pain.