July 5, 2024 • 44 mins
Join Captain Ron this week as he discusses all things UFO with guest Michael Schratt.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal
podcast network. I'll get ready for another episode of Beyond
Contact with Captain Wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The thoughts and opinions expressed by the host our thoughts
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Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,
we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest from the
newest cases as we.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Talked with the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I
am Captain Ron, and today I'll be speaking with Michael Schrapp.
Michael's a military aerospace historian and a private pilot himself.
He's been investigating UFO cases for over twenty five years,
including meticulously reviewing a minimum of fifty thousand cases that
(01:23):
were preserved at the Center of UFO Studies in Chicago.
That's the group that was founded by the late Jay
Allen Heinek. What he also does is he takes these
old cases, takes their descriptions, even some line drawings, original
line drawings, and then he commissions new color drawings and
illustrations to bring these cases to life. It makes it
much easier to understand, and he refreshes them and it's
(01:44):
really fantastic. He does as much research in this area
as anyone I know. Hi, Michael, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
You've been looking at this UFO subject for a long time,
and after all that time, do you feel that some
of these are actually craft from off planet, other civilizations
(02:05):
of some kind et craft.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Well, looking at this for a little while now, personally,
I'm convinced that ninety five percent of what people are
reporting as extraterrestrial UFOs are in point of effect, are
on Deep Black programs. The remaining five percent represents the
core of reality of this phenomenon. Some of the new understanding,
and this kind of goes back to Roswell, is that
(02:29):
these crafts were not et in nature, but they were
extra teenchoral from our future. So that's kind of been
some of the latest understanding.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Yeah, that is. That is one of the talks, even
the interdimensional travel. Even Mark D'Antonio and some of these
other guys are saying that they think that these craft
actually somehow are able to transfer between dimensions.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah, because these UFOs, these usos, these UAP they have
been seen as tricksters. They can materialize and demterialize as
they need. They've been seen going into the side of
the mountains with no impact. They seem to have no
problem going from one medium to the next. They can
go from air to water and air back again. So
(03:12):
it doesn't look like we're dealing with metallic shit. You know,
in many cases we're dealing with something else here.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Do you think that any of those things could be
actually secret military aircraft or perhaps another government spy program
that just has better technology than we're aware.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Well, just looking at the documents, looking at the newspaper clippings,
and tracking the Black budget for decades, you can clearly
see that they have been throwing billions of dollars into
black programs, and some of these programs they were born black,
they died black. Will never hear anything about it. There's
no public scrutiny, there's no accountability these things are off
(03:53):
the rails. If there's a failure, we're never going to
hear about it. We're never going to hear about In fact,
during the Clinton industry, we were spending one hundred million
dollars per day programs.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Incredible. I mean, if that's what we're spending that kind
of budget, then you can imagine one hundred million a day,
and that you know, was years and years and years ago.
Maybe by now we've developed something like this, So maybe
it isn't another civilization? Is it possible that these are
all earthly creations from humans?
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Looking at the newspaper clippings from the mid nineteen fifties,
it's very clear and this is all born out in
the newspaper clippings that probably October fifty four, doctor Greer
talks about this. I tracked those dates and they're consistent
with what the newspaper clippings are showing us, is that
defense contractors, universities were desperately trying to correct the gravity
(04:46):
barrier like it was an all out desperate attempt. This
is something on the level of the atomic bomb program,
and they were absolutely desperate to do this. And then
looking at the witness testimony, it's clear they've made the breakthrough.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
They've done it.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
They have absolutely done it.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
So then there may in fact not be anything to
the UFO alien thing as people claim.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Well here's the other thing too, though, because these sidings
date back to the ancient Romans. They date back to
the ancient Egyptians. We know Christopher Columbus had a sighting.
We've got USO cases all around the world prior to
nineteen forty. To say that everything is man made is
just not consistent with the historical record. In fact, I've
(05:29):
got cases from eighteen sixty five in Wajaco, Mexico. This
is long before the Wright Brothers flew on December seventeen,
nineteen oh three. This is Wahaco, Mexico, eighteen sixty five.
Hundreds of times people saw a yellow colored trumpet hovering
over the city for six hours back in eighteen sixty five,
a literal trumpet.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
So these cases.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Go back a lot earlier. I've even heard of things
like going way way back, even like Samerian texts they
find on some tablets they saw a silver ball in
the sky and things like that. Obviously that's not our military,
so maybe there is something there You've been looking at
this for so long, and lately your attention seems to
have moved on to crash retrieval cases, specifically. A couple
(06:13):
of weeks ago we had Ryan Wood on and in
his revised book he chronicles details of one hundred and
four crash retrieval cases, and he mentions that there may
be even a few more new ones that haven't made
his book yet. You've been looking at the accumulated case
studies of Leonard Stringfield, and I think you mentioned he
had what one hundred nineteen cases.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Very well done, Yeah, nineteen, plus an additional over one
hundred from Ryan Wood in his new book, Magic Guy's
and only following him two. Now he's got over one
hundred there. Now, there are some overlaps in there, but
when you look at this conservatively, at least one hundred
and twenty four total between the two books, all we
need is one of these to be authentic, and this
(06:55):
whole case of UFO crash retrieval non reality completely falls apart.
We only one case, that's it. So the numbers are
in our favor.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yes, I always like to point that out. The more
you look at this, keeping in mind that you only
need one of them. And if we have at least
one twenty four cases that are considered credible crash retrieval cases,
if one of those made anything, that's it exactly.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
We've got people working at rich Petters and air Fook
Space who were cataloging a thousand components that came in
from a crash retrieval. I don't think these people are lying.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
To us personally.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
I think it's the crash retrievals that are going to
be the vehicle for disclosure, because it has the bodies,
the debris, and the craft rolled up all into this thing.
And we've been doing this for eighty years now as
a collective united coalition and researchers, and if we don't
do something drastic, we'robably going to be here another eighty
years and we're still not going to know because we
(07:51):
have tried the democratic process through Congress, and I feel
they've failed us. They've just failed us, and so now
it's incumbent upon us track down these remaining legacy witnesses
that can get us to their bosses and supervisors, that
can bring us to the bodies. You know, for example,
Marion Black, Matt Madruder, he was a ACE pilot in
(08:12):
World War Two. He was sent over to England to
learn about night fighting. He came back here April nineteen
forty eight. He was at Montgomery, Alabama, and he was
pulled with a group of his test pilots to go
view the survivor and the ailien corpses that were left
over from Broswell. This is April nineteen forty eight, and
we have his testimony. He's a incredible witness.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Wow. I think that people disregard too much of this
witness testimony, and I think it's it's a shame really.
And Michael, you were talking about these cases of crash
retrievals and you had looked at the Leonard Stringfield stuff.
Why don't you tell us who Leonard Stringfield was and
what do we know about him.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Leonard Stringfield was a former military personnel. He died in
nineteen ninety four. He worked in Cincinnati in a chemical
plan for a number of years. Over the years, he
wrote two books. He also published multiple status reports that
highlighted his investigation into UFO crash retrievals. Those status reports
(09:12):
have been compiled into a rather thick document that can
get on Amazon. UFO Crash Retrievals by Leonard Stringfield. It's
about one hundred dollars book. It's well worth it. But
the problem is a couple things. Leonard would not release
the names of his witnesses. That's the agreement that he
had with them. So the other problem is there's no drawings,
there's no illustrations, there's no sketches, there's really no visual
(09:35):
aids to go with, so you're left with your imagination
to try to picture what these things look like. And
you know, that's not always a bad thing because we
want to use our imagination, we want to make it real.
But personally, I like to see what these cases look
like based on their actual testimony. So over the last
three years, I've made it my crusade to commission professional
artists to do a pencil sketch full rendering and then
(09:58):
do a three D full color rendering to make these
cases come alive. So that's what I've been doing the
last three years.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, it's really cool and it really does bring life
to that to each of those cases, and it makes
us feel part of it. It's wonderful. I've seen some
of your drawings. Okay, you're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 4 (12:40):
Welcome back to Beyond Contact with Captain Ron. I'm talking
to Michael Schratt And the thing about Leonard, it's great
that he got these stories and it's wonderful how they
can add to the data. But you know, in today's world,
it's really difficult. When we don't have the names. That
makes it less credible. People are ready to jump on
it and discredit it, of course, But let's talk for
(13:02):
a minute about these people that he interviewed. These were
not farmers or people out in the woods. These were
all military people. In fact, a lot of high ranking
military people, right.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
These were first hand military sources. Now, we do have
the names on some of these, actually quite a few.
I don't have all of them, and I don't think
anybody does, but we do have a number of those,
and those names could be run to ground. We could
check those, we could verify those. I don't have the resources.
I don't have the private investigating capability to track these
(13:33):
people down. And we're talking forties and fifties. A lot
of these people are gone. But we do have a
number of the names. So if we had the firepower,
we could track these people down and they could possibly
lead us to where their supervisors were, and that could
lead us to where this hardware is. Because this whole
thing boils down to the actual physical evidence. Anything less
(13:56):
than that and we're completely wasting our time. There's an
a bum fundance of evidence in the form of CE
ones and C two's, and we don't need another CE
one case. You can go on nicap dot org until
the cows come home. Well, what we need is the
physical hardware to move this whole feel forward. That's what
we're lacking.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
That is one hundred percent on the nose. I think
even if we had that, there's still be a lot
of people that would challenge it and not believe it
in today's climate, so even with that we would be struggling.
And without it, it makes it much more difficult for
a lot of folks to come on board with this,
you know. I also feel, Michael, that a lot of
people don't realize the volume of credible military witnesses who
(14:39):
have claimed to have some sort of interaction directly with
these kind of craft. We hear about David Groush, We've
heard Bob Blazaar, there's a few other famous ones. But
I think most people don't understand the sheer volume of
actual military government officials who have come forward about this
and shared their story. I think someone needs to compile that.
(15:00):
Another thing we could put some people on. Let them
compile that list of all of these people that have
come forward direct first person accounts of their direct contact
with a craft, which is so much stronger than a
light in the sky. Yeah, this is an important part
of the whole thing. The sum total of all of
these cases together, in a sense, is more than just
(15:21):
the facts of any one of its cases on its own.
What are your thoughts on the number of military people
who have had such accounts and do you think there'll
be more coming out with testimonials.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Well, we've seen the David Grush thing last year. You
know what we need here is not a onesie and
a twosye. We need a united coalition of engineers, test pilots,
people who worked on these programs, people who loaded craft
up and put them on eighteen wheeler tractor trailer low
boys and ship them to write Patterson Air Force Face.
We need like twelve or twenty four of these people
(15:52):
coming together with one united voice, with hard physical evidence,
and it's going to be a lot harder for the
book groups to keep this under wraps. That's what we
really need, and the time is ticking and it's really
the final curtain call on getting these crash retrieval witnesses
to come forward. This is literally the final curtain call
because they're going to age out. You mean they're going
(16:13):
to age out. Yeah, that's what's already happened in Rossow.
You can see behind me here. This is basically the
morning of the eighth July eighth, nineteen forty seven. All
of the original five or ninth bomb group members that
had anything to do with this case, they're all gone.
It's a show in the eyes of the government. It's
cover up complete, and they're just waiting out the clock
for the rest of these crash retrievals that are catching
(16:33):
up really quick now. And these people are just dying
away and no one's tracking these people down, and they're
passing away, and there's an important part of our national
history is slipping right out of our hands.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
No doubt about it, no doubt about it. You know,
Don Schmidt and those guys that did these interviews about
the Roswell case and that they said their biggest problem
was that they were racing against time to catch these
guys before they aged out. And it's a shame we've.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Lost so many year though, because as you know, the
civilians got to the crack site before the military did
the debris field and the crash site. Civilians got there first.
So you know for a fact, and so does Don Schmidt,
and so does Tom Carey. We know one hundred percent
that there are people in Roswell this very hour, this
(17:20):
very second that have pieces of the debris and handed
it down through the family in Roswell right now, talking
about the memory metal, talking about the tingfoil like debris
that could not be cut, could not be burned, could
not be dented with a sixteen pound sledgehammer. And then
the ie beams that is in Roswell right now in
(17:41):
somebody's trunk up on the attic. Who it is, I
don't know, but it's there.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Once you think by now that someone would have come
forward with that. Don't you think that it feel safe
enough with today's climate?
Speaker 5 (17:51):
They have. It has happened a couple times where Don
and Tom got a call and they got a lead
on someone who has debris, and it always never pans
out right, it always fails. So this evidence is always
two steps ahead of us, but for sure they have it.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
They have it.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
There are families now that handed the debris down through
generations that keep it. Don't ask me why, But you
know they know how valuable it is because the way
this game is played, the way it was explained to
me that you know, literally this is a game. It's
us against them. The way this game is played is
they don't care what you know. They care what you
can prove. So you're welcome to go all over the world.
(18:32):
You can talk all the witnesses and secondhand dead Man testimony,
you can go all university, do whatever you want. Until
you have physical evidence. It's a non issue to them.
You get physical evidence, now you're on the radar screen.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Okay, Let's say they turn in the piece. Somebody calls
tomorrow and says, hey, I found this medal in my garage.
It's roswell metal from a craft, and they get a
tested or whatever. Don't you think that we would then
say that while we've got technology now to do that.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
It would have to be absolutely verified. There has to
be a lineage of how it got there. The grandfather
was at the fob O on ninth or something. There'd have
to be paperwork, documentation, verification. Maybe it'd have to be
sent to Betel Memorial Institute where it was originally sent.
They probably still have some there. Now, if you send
it there, it's probably not going to come back and
(19:21):
it'll be the last time we ever see of it.
So that's a problem too, is getting it verified. It
has to be independently verified by a coalition of engineers
who are involved in metallurgy. They're going to test the
tensile strength of this. I mean, you could literally take
a sixteen pound sledgehammer and nail this thing and it
wouldn't make a dent in it. That's kind of what
we're looking at here. So it's a risky move. They
(19:43):
know how valuable this stuff. Back in forty seven, they
used to go into barns and they would pull up
floorboards and they'd rip open seedbags, and they would threaten
witnesses with death, and this whole thing just way got
out of hand.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I have to admit, Michael, that the sheer volume of
these reports, as well as the many similarities of these accounts,
does point to there being something to these cases, and
our government must have recovered something. Do you find that
these cases have similarities, like you've found different witnesses claim
that the craft was in the middle of a warehouse
and they're scaffolding around it. The more people that have
(20:18):
had the same experience. I feel like that adds to
the credibility of these testimonies. What do you think.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I don't think I could say it much better, but yes,
you're absolutely correct. What I'm finding after looking at these
cases and even in Ryan Woods book there's similarity too.
Is that when you find a common denominator or feature
described by the military witness, and then you find the
exact same thing by another person, separated by time and space,
now you know you've got a real case. For example,
(20:45):
there's a case within the Stringfield collection that has to
do with the United States Marine. This is December nineteen
sixty three. He was flown on a plane with blackedout
windows from Cherry Point, North Carolina. This is December nineteen
sixty three. Now, this is about a three hour flight
to an undisclosed location that he didn't know what it was.
When he got off the plane, they brought him to
(21:05):
a hangar. They opened up the hangar doors and there
was a forty foot diameter dish shaped craft propped up
on scaffolding about five feet off the floor. There were
multiple teams of white lab coat technicians that were around
this craft. They were examining the craft, and he said
that they were using diamond tip drill bits to try
to breach the whole of this craft and they couldn't
(21:27):
do it. And I got another case from forty six
at Rightfield, Dayton, Ohio, where they were also using diamond
tip drill bits. And I know these two cases are separated.
These witnesses did not know each other, and this is
something that I've seen multiple times in these Stringfield cases.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
We're going to have to stop right there, Michael. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 4 (23:35):
We are back on Beyond Contact with Captain Ron. I'm
talking with Michael Schrad here. You brought up this nineteen
sixty three case that this marine was testifying to. Seeing this,
it's almost sort of like a clamshow where it's got
the big portals around the side on the edges. Is
that correct?
Speaker 5 (23:50):
Well well done? Well done?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
So he walks in and he notices that there are
other guards there as well. His job was to guard
this thing for two weeks. There were men with lab
coat technicians, white lab coats. All these people had color
coded badges on. So if you had a yellow badge,
you could go here. If you had a green badge,
you could go here. If you had a red badge,
you had access to the entire facility. They had a
(24:14):
catwalk wrapped around this thing. It was about forty feet
in diameter. It had nine opaque, elliptically shaped windows wrapped
around the outer circumference. This thing was highly polish reflective exterior.
There were no visible means of propulsion, no rivets, no welds,
no socketthead capstrews, no he's head capscrews. He said that
(24:35):
there was the absolute finest outline of an entryway hatch
on the bottom of the craft. You could not put
a razor blade into that hatch. It was like a
liquid metal hatchway that was embedded into the craft, just
like the granite and limestone blocks of the Giza Plateau
where you could not put a razor blade between those either.
That's what he mentioned that personally, so he's guarding this craft.
(24:58):
He also said that there was a one inch lip
between the outer skin of the craft itself and the
outer portion of these windows. There was definitely a little
lip that you could feel with your thumb. Now, there
was one time where he was left alone by himself
with this craft. He brought in a small Minx camera
and he took a photograph of this thing. That photograph
(25:18):
was lost in a flood back in nineteen eighty three.
We were this close of getting this photograph of this craft.
It would have been a huge thing. And on the
very last day he was there, he saw them lifting
the craft off of its scaffolding. It was being put
on an eighteen wheeler tractor trailer, lowboy truck. They were
covering it with tarps and moving it to the next location.
(25:40):
So what they've done for decades here is they compartmentalize
the information and they moved the assets from one resource
area to the next, and that's how they keep it
under wrapped. So in a nutshell, that is the nineteen
sixty three US Marine case.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, and that one had the scaffolding around the ship.
It wasn't it true that they would have people there
that had orders to shoot to kill if you were
within a certain distance from the craft.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Right, he was given those orders directly.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Wow, there was a white circle painted on the floor
and his job was to shoot anyone who breached that circle.
So it was absolutely his job. And you know, I've
got an original sketch from this marine. This is not
a copy. This is like an original sketch. And what
he describes in the sketch is overhead lighting on either side,
shining down at a forty five degree angle. The whole
(26:29):
place was excruciatingly well lit. That's talked about in many
other retrieval cases. He's got the pads below the craft.
He's got the portion where they're using a diamond tip drill.
Bit in the notes he talks about a laser incident
where after the acetylene torches failed, they brought in a laser.
They shine this laser on the craft. It reflected, bounced
off and damaged a ceiling tile that was talked about
(26:51):
in there. So we have about five pages of original
notes from this guy that Leonard had talked to him.
And then a man named Michael Johnstone why I got
to do about a two hour videotape interview. He described
meeting with this gentleman as well. So we've got some
pretty good paperwork to back this up.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
That's awesome. And like you said, you know, when you
tell someone you have ordered shoot to kill if you
get near this thing, it must be something of importance, right.
Also like there were these newspaper reports in that era,
or maybe it's a little later sixty seventies, where we
had servicemen who said they were instructed to shoot them down,
shoot down UFOs. And of course this is interesting because
(27:31):
once again, if there's nothing there and UFOs don't exist
according to our government, then what are these guys supposed
to be ordered to shoot down? Right?
Speaker 5 (27:38):
Yeah, that order was given in the early nineteen fifties
fifty one, fifty two to fifty three timeframe, and absolutely
correct newspaper clippings, literally dozens and dozens of those clippings
where they were ordered to shoot these things down. And
then we've got a report from a US military officer
who's mentioned in the book, where he was at a
(27:59):
CLII five materials library. He had the correct security clearance
to get to be there. He opened up a file cabinet,
opened up one of these Manila folders, looked inside, and
there was a report on crash retrievals, and they used
the term crashes more than one. They also talked about bodies,
and they talked about a craft that came down very
near Farmington, New Mexico, that was thirty six feet in diameter,
(28:23):
had a low rise dome, it had porthole windows wrapped
around the outer circumference of the upper dome, and then
said that there was a quarter size hull that they
were able to get access to some of the interior,
and they were also using additional diamond tip drill bits
to get into that one as well. So here's we
got three cases now these diamond tip drill bits being used.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
It's interesting to me how you had said earlier that
you felt that these crafts, some of these craft were
not ours. Let's say that right. It's interesting that we
have these craft, we have these stories of this craft,
and then we also do have some military documentation of
people who have worked on these craft and saw these
craft and the fact that it kind of sinks up
(29:05):
does strengthen the case.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Oh, absolutely absolutely. When you look at the common denominator,
when you look at the repeating patterns, and this goes
for not only crash re triebles, but the historical UFO
cases as well. Give you a couple examples. So we've
got nineteen eighty nine nineteen ninety, which is the Belgium triangle,
where we've got about five thousand eyewitnesses that reported a
(29:27):
massive triangular, black shaped craft bought the size of a
football field, having one light at each corner, one amber
light in the center, and then tubes, pipes and cylinders
on the bottom of the craft. Now we go back
in time to nineteen eighty two to nineteen eighty nine
with the Hudson Valley boomerang, but also got reports of tubes,
(29:49):
pipes and cylinders on that. And then we go to
two thousand January fifth, two thousand with the Southern Illinois
Triangle case, where we've got at least five police officers
describing what look like mechanical structure and stacked legos on
the bottom of these craft. And these these are separated
by decades here, and they're describing similar understructure on the
(30:11):
bottom of these vehicles.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Michael, we've been talking about these cases. Let's move on
for a minute here to some of this black program
stuff that you're also involved in. I know you have
worked with different people in different areas of classified black programs,
including Air Force pilots, retired Navy personnel, aerospace engineers. These
guys have maintained a top secret clearance. What is your
(30:34):
takeaway with your interaction with these guys.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
All I would have to say is that you know,
these are American heroes. We want to respect their privacy,
We want to respect things that are still within line
of their NDA. So I don't want to push the
envelope with them. But if you look at the Bill
Scott collection, who is the former head of Rocky Mountain,
editor of Aviation Week Space Technology, who was probably closer
(30:58):
to the Black World than any Bill Scott got closer
than anyone because he had developed relationships with people who
worked in the defense contractor industry, people who worked at
Air Force Plant forty two, or who worked on the
final assembly line of the B two stealth bomber at
the Northrop facility at Air Force Plant forty two. These
are the kind of people that he was dealing with.
(31:19):
Well over this sixteen year period. He kept getting these
reports of this two staged orbit space plane system. It's
always been rumored that there's something out there, something that
would replace the Blackbird, something that would be a two
staged to orbit space plane system that could be anywhere
in the world in less than two hours. It's always
(31:40):
been rumored. But then when you start looking at the
eyewitness testimony, there's newspaper clippings about people who've seen this
thing flying over. It all boiled down to a man
named James Petty who was living in Utah at the time,
Salt Lake City. He's the only witness that saw both
the mothership and the parasitic air prep at the same time.
(32:01):
And when Bill Scott got that testimony from him, he said,
you know what, We're going to go to press and
they went with that story. That was essentially Bill's final
article for Aviation Weeks based Technology before he retired. And
what they described is and this is a multitude of witnesses,
is something that looked like the sixties XB seventy, this
(32:22):
absolutely massive mothership.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
We're going to have to take a break there. When
we come back, we're going to talk more about this
with Michael. He also does a lot of work with
the black programs and how that whole thing works within
our government. We'll talk about that and more with Michael
Schreudt when we return to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 4 (34:44):
We are back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and
we're discussing the possibility of these UFO craft being real
and being of alien origin. That's very compelling as well.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Oh yeah, there was a design behind it. It has
canards up front. It has a pilot, copilot and launch
control officer, and that's the liaison between the mothership and
the parasitic aircraft. It's got sixteen foot tall winglets at
the end of the delta wings. It's got very similar
air intake to the XB seventy. It's got six pack
(35:15):
YJ ninety three engines in the back because I've got witnesses.
I spoke to three people personally who have seen this
with their own eyes, and what they describe is on
the bottom of the mother ship, it looks like someone
took an ice cream scooper and just started scooping out
the entire bottom of the aircraft, leaving this cavity, this
empty cavity. So at Area fifty one, you'd have this
(35:37):
parasitic aircraft that tucks up inside this cavity. And let's
say that there's something going on in the Middle East,
so you'd have one of our top pilots get into
the parasitic aircraft. They'd take off from Area fifty one.
They'd fly over Alaska, they make a left hand turn.
Now they're heading toward the Soviet Union, and then they
would drop from the mothership at maybe thirty thousand feet
(35:58):
at Mock one point two, and then they'd pour the
coals to this thing I'm talking about Mocked twelve, and
they'd be screaming over the Soviet Union to make a
left hand turn. Now they're going south toward the Middle East,
and this could be a nuclear radiation proliferation monitoring craft.
They make a left hand turn now they're heading toward Hawaii.
They make about a forty five degree turn back to
(36:19):
Hawaii and all done in less than two hours. This
is called the black Star system. This is a real program.
It did not work as well as they liked it too,
so they shelved it and somewhere out there I can't
tell you where, probably at Area fifty one, there is
this massive mothership and this parasitic aircraft. It's still out there.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
It sounds like an airship carrier. Is pretty for one aircraft, Yes, yeah,
I call it that. Yeah, pretty amazing. And it just
shows you if we're able to build something like that,
you would think would be able to have a lot
more than people are aware of.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Oh, there's no doubt. At the very minimum, there are
six man classified programs still left over from the Reagan
administration that has not even seen the light of day.
They are in dark storage. They are deep storage right now,
dead storage, probably at the test site. They probably have
some things at Edwards North based complex underground. We're not
going to see them. We may never see them. That's
(37:13):
the tragedy.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Well, I have heard this. You're the guy to ask
this question and maybe you'll you'll dispel this for me.
I had heard at one point that by the time
we see a craft, it's obsolete. So like when we
saw the stealth bomber and we thought, oh wow, they've
already had that for twenty years and it's obsolete to them,
so they don't mind showing us.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
I would agree with that, because what we're dealing with
here are three tiers of technology. Tier one is your common, ordinary,
garden variety, vanilla flavored aircraft, like your F fifteen's, your
F sixteen's, and your F fourteen's, which are retired. That's
that's tier number one.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
It wouldn't be a black budget program, it would be correct.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Yeah, these are things that you'd see at your local
air show. That's tier number one. Now Tier number two
is the previously black programs that have been declassified and
put into the white world. These are your F one
seventeen stealth Fighters, your B two stealth bombers, Boeing Fantomworks,
Bird of Prey, all in the museum now, I mean,
you can go see these things.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
They're there.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
So these are previously black programs that went into the
white world. Now that's tier two. Tier three are the
craft that bypass the accepted laws of physics. They don't
have anything to do with Newtonian physics. So we have
to start throwing out Newtonian physics and start thinking more
along the lines of another type of physics, quantum physics,
(38:32):
things that almost defy reality.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Here.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
These are your Black triangles, Belgium triangles. These are your
Hudson Valley boomerangs, these are your Southern Illinois triangle January
fifty two thousand. All the other craft that have been
reverse engineered from recovered technology that falls into the category,
those are the things that I like to focus on.
It's the level three, the Tier three aircraft.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Well, if you think a lot of these crash retrievals
from UFOs have been captured by us, do you think
many of these that you're referring to now this tier
could be backward engineered from off world craft.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
Absolutely, And not only that is because you know, this
story is a lot more sinister than I like to
go down. I'm really about the hardware. I don't really
focus in all the inner workings of political aspects and
dealing with people in government and everything and the sinister
intelligence community. I mean, it's all part of this big story.
(39:31):
But it's very clear at this point that what has
been going on is that there's a roague group within
the military industrial complex slash intelligence community that are targeting, tracking,
and shooting these vehicles down to exploit two things. Number one,
their free energy propulsion systems.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
That's one.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Number two is their weapons advanced technology. And they will
stop at nothing to get those two things figured out.
At nothing, So they're piggybacking on pre existing radar systems,
using scaler weapons directed energy weapons to target, track, and
shoot these things down.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
So you're not saying these are necessarily crashes, they are
in fact being shut down.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
This is purposely done. Yes, purposely done.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Let's talk about the ones that are crashing. You know,
the skeptics will say, how come they can make it
all the way across light years of space and then
they get here and they crash in roswell because it's
raining outside.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
There's no way you're going to have an advanced civilization
that might be one hundred million light years away and
they're going to come through gravity wells. They're going to
come through quirks, they're going to come through quasars, they're
going to come from different black holes and then they
finally get here and crash. It absolutely doesn't make sense whatsoever.
I think the numbers are showing that a vast majority
of these things are actually shut down a little bit
(40:48):
harder to prove, but I think we could have some
of those instances as well, where they're hand me downs.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
You know what's interesting is we often hear about sightings,
and we often hear about crashes, even crash retrievals, but
I don't I call hearing hardly at all about eyewitness
accounts of a UFO being shot down. You would think
that would be pretty dramatic and people would see it.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
These things can materialize and de materialize at will, and
the second they de materialize into this dimension, they're already
hit with one of these directed energy weapons, so it's instantaneous.
You look at all the witnesses within Night Siege that
was written, all of them describe nighttime sightings like ninety
(41:29):
nine percent of them and above. So why weren't they
seen during the day? Because someone is flying these things
at night for a certain agenda.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Your other book, you talked about different ways people could
tell the difference between a man made UFO and a
non man made UFO, and what are those.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
Tested on Thursday nights? So that's number one. Why Thursday,
because Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is pre flight, Thursday is the
test flight, Friday's debrief, Saturday Sunday. There's nobody at the
base now that held up between the early nineteen eighties
up till around nineteen ninety five time frame. After that,
they test these things on Saturdays, and they test these
(42:07):
things on holidays. If you see tubes, pipes and cylinders,
that could be one of ours. If you see socket
head capscrews, if you see weld marks, if you see
the falling leaf phenomenon, it could be one of ours.
Because a lot of these times, when you have a
man made craft and it's in a localized gravity field,
they need time to spool up and get stabilized first.
(42:30):
Until that happens, you've got this falling leaf phenomenon. If
you hear a high pitched drilling noise prior to takeoff
or on approach to landing, it could be one of ours.
If you see lights flashing in sequence, like reds go off,
yellows go off, greens go off in sequenced and then
in a repeating pattern, it's most likely one of ours,
and even nobody less than Stanton Friedman. He talked about quote,
(42:52):
wings on an extraterrestrial spacecraft could only be for decoration.
So if you see a flying wing out there, why
do you need wings in a vacuum? It doesn't make
any sense. So even Stanton Freeman knew that we're dealing
with a man made technology here.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
Thank you, brother. That was really good stuff.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
Man, great, great to be with you.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
I really appreciate all the hard research you do. I
think you're a very valuable member of our community and
we really really appreciate your work. You guys should go
to Michael's YouTube page and check out all of his videos.
He's got a lot of in detail accounts of different
historic crash retrieval cases and it's fascinating. Thank you for
listening to Beyond Contact. We'll be back next week with
an all new episode. You can follow me Captain Ron
(43:32):
on Twitter and Instagram at CD underscore Captain Ron. Stay
connected by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay open
minded and rational as we explore the unknown right here
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
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Speaker 5 (44:07):
Mm hmm
Welcome to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM paranormal
podcast network. I'll get ready for another episode of Beyond
Contact with Captain Wrong.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
The thoughts and opinions expressed by the host our thoughts
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Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week on Beyond Contact,
we'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss some of
the classic cases, and bring you the latest from the
newest cases as we.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
Talked with the top experts. Welcome to Beyond Contact. I
am Captain Ron, and today I'll be speaking with Michael Schrapp.
Michael's a military aerospace historian and a private pilot himself.
He's been investigating UFO cases for over twenty five years,
including meticulously reviewing a minimum of fifty thousand cases that
(01:23):
were preserved at the Center of UFO Studies in Chicago.
That's the group that was founded by the late Jay
Allen Heinek. What he also does is he takes these
old cases, takes their descriptions, even some line drawings, original
line drawings, and then he commissions new color drawings and
illustrations to bring these cases to life. It makes it
much easier to understand, and he refreshes them and it's
(01:44):
really fantastic. He does as much research in this area
as anyone I know. Hi, Michael, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
You've been looking at this UFO subject for a long time,
and after all that time, do you feel that some
of these are actually craft from off planet, other civilizations
(02:05):
of some kind et craft.
Speaker 5 (02:08):
Well, looking at this for a little while now, personally,
I'm convinced that ninety five percent of what people are
reporting as extraterrestrial UFOs are in point of effect, are
on Deep Black programs. The remaining five percent represents the
core of reality of this phenomenon. Some of the new understanding,
and this kind of goes back to Roswell, is that
(02:29):
these crafts were not et in nature, but they were
extra teenchoral from our future. So that's kind of been
some of the latest understanding.
Speaker 4 (02:39):
Yeah, that is. That is one of the talks, even
the interdimensional travel. Even Mark D'Antonio and some of these
other guys are saying that they think that these craft
actually somehow are able to transfer between dimensions.
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah, because these UFOs, these usos, these UAP they have
been seen as tricksters. They can materialize and demterialize as
they need. They've been seen going into the side of
the mountains with no impact. They seem to have no
problem going from one medium to the next. They can
go from air to water and air back again. So
(03:12):
it doesn't look like we're dealing with metallic shit. You know,
in many cases we're dealing with something else here.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Do you think that any of those things could be
actually secret military aircraft or perhaps another government spy program
that just has better technology than we're aware.
Speaker 5 (03:30):
Well, just looking at the documents, looking at the newspaper clippings,
and tracking the Black budget for decades, you can clearly
see that they have been throwing billions of dollars into
black programs, and some of these programs they were born black,
they died black. Will never hear anything about it. There's
no public scrutiny, there's no accountability these things are off
(03:53):
the rails. If there's a failure, we're never going to
hear about it. We're never going to hear about In fact,
during the Clinton industry, we were spending one hundred million
dollars per day programs.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Incredible. I mean, if that's what we're spending that kind
of budget, then you can imagine one hundred million a day,
and that you know, was years and years and years ago.
Maybe by now we've developed something like this, So maybe
it isn't another civilization? Is it possible that these are
all earthly creations from humans?
Speaker 5 (04:23):
Looking at the newspaper clippings from the mid nineteen fifties,
it's very clear and this is all born out in
the newspaper clippings that probably October fifty four, doctor Greer
talks about this. I tracked those dates and they're consistent
with what the newspaper clippings are showing us, is that
defense contractors, universities were desperately trying to correct the gravity
(04:46):
barrier like it was an all out desperate attempt. This
is something on the level of the atomic bomb program,
and they were absolutely desperate to do this. And then
looking at the witness testimony, it's clear they've made the breakthrough.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
They've done it.
Speaker 5 (05:00):
They have absolutely done it.
Speaker 4 (05:01):
So then there may in fact not be anything to
the UFO alien thing as people claim.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Well here's the other thing too, though, because these sidings
date back to the ancient Romans. They date back to
the ancient Egyptians. We know Christopher Columbus had a sighting.
We've got USO cases all around the world prior to
nineteen forty. To say that everything is man made is
just not consistent with the historical record. In fact, I've
(05:29):
got cases from eighteen sixty five in Wajaco, Mexico. This
is long before the Wright Brothers flew on December seventeen,
nineteen oh three. This is Wahaco, Mexico, eighteen sixty five.
Hundreds of times people saw a yellow colored trumpet hovering
over the city for six hours back in eighteen sixty five,
a literal trumpet.
Speaker 6 (05:49):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (05:49):
So these cases.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
Go back a lot earlier. I've even heard of things
like going way way back, even like Samerian texts they
find on some tablets they saw a silver ball in
the sky and things like that. Obviously that's not our military,
so maybe there is something there You've been looking at
this for so long, and lately your attention seems to
have moved on to crash retrieval cases, specifically. A couple
(06:13):
of weeks ago we had Ryan Wood on and in
his revised book he chronicles details of one hundred and
four crash retrieval cases, and he mentions that there may
be even a few more new ones that haven't made
his book yet. You've been looking at the accumulated case
studies of Leonard Stringfield, and I think you mentioned he
had what one hundred nineteen cases.
Speaker 5 (06:33):
Very well done, Yeah, nineteen, plus an additional over one
hundred from Ryan Wood in his new book, Magic Guy's
and only following him two. Now he's got over one
hundred there. Now, there are some overlaps in there, but
when you look at this conservatively, at least one hundred
and twenty four total between the two books, all we
need is one of these to be authentic, and this
(06:55):
whole case of UFO crash retrieval non reality completely falls apart.
We only one case, that's it. So the numbers are
in our favor.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yes, I always like to point that out. The more
you look at this, keeping in mind that you only
need one of them. And if we have at least
one twenty four cases that are considered credible crash retrieval cases,
if one of those made anything, that's it exactly.
Speaker 5 (07:19):
We've got people working at rich Petters and air Fook
Space who were cataloging a thousand components that came in
from a crash retrieval. I don't think these people are lying.
Speaker 4 (07:29):
To us personally.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
I think it's the crash retrievals that are going to
be the vehicle for disclosure, because it has the bodies,
the debris, and the craft rolled up all into this thing.
And we've been doing this for eighty years now as
a collective united coalition and researchers, and if we don't
do something drastic, we'robably going to be here another eighty
years and we're still not going to know because we
(07:51):
have tried the democratic process through Congress, and I feel
they've failed us. They've just failed us, and so now
it's incumbent upon us track down these remaining legacy witnesses
that can get us to their bosses and supervisors, that
can bring us to the bodies. You know, for example,
Marion Black, Matt Madruder, he was a ACE pilot in
(08:12):
World War Two. He was sent over to England to
learn about night fighting. He came back here April nineteen
forty eight. He was at Montgomery, Alabama, and he was
pulled with a group of his test pilots to go
view the survivor and the ailien corpses that were left
over from Broswell. This is April nineteen forty eight, and
we have his testimony. He's a incredible witness.
Speaker 4 (08:34):
Wow. I think that people disregard too much of this
witness testimony, and I think it's it's a shame really.
And Michael, you were talking about these cases of crash
retrievals and you had looked at the Leonard Stringfield stuff.
Why don't you tell us who Leonard Stringfield was and
what do we know about him.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
Leonard Stringfield was a former military personnel. He died in
nineteen ninety four. He worked in Cincinnati in a chemical
plan for a number of years. Over the years, he
wrote two books. He also published multiple status reports that
highlighted his investigation into UFO crash retrievals. Those status reports
(09:12):
have been compiled into a rather thick document that can
get on Amazon. UFO Crash Retrievals by Leonard Stringfield. It's
about one hundred dollars book. It's well worth it. But
the problem is a couple things. Leonard would not release
the names of his witnesses. That's the agreement that he
had with them. So the other problem is there's no drawings,
there's no illustrations, there's no sketches, there's really no visual
(09:35):
aids to go with, so you're left with your imagination
to try to picture what these things look like. And
you know, that's not always a bad thing because we
want to use our imagination, we want to make it real.
But personally, I like to see what these cases look
like based on their actual testimony. So over the last
three years, I've made it my crusade to commission professional
artists to do a pencil sketch full rendering and then
(09:58):
do a three D full color rendering to make these
cases come alive. So that's what I've been doing the
last three years.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah, it's really cool and it really does bring life
to that to each of those cases, and it makes
us feel part of it. It's wonderful. I've seen some
of your drawings. Okay, you're listening to Beyond Contact on
the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 4 (12:07):
You are not alone.
Speaker 6 (12:11):
Hey, it's the Wizard of Weird Joshua P.
Speaker 7 (12:14):
Warren.
Speaker 11 (12:15):
Don't forget to check out my show Strange Things each
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Speaker 4 (12:40):
Welcome back to Beyond Contact with Captain Ron. I'm talking
to Michael Schratt And the thing about Leonard, it's great
that he got these stories and it's wonderful how they
can add to the data. But you know, in today's world,
it's really difficult. When we don't have the names. That
makes it less credible. People are ready to jump on
it and discredit it, of course, But let's talk for
(13:02):
a minute about these people that he interviewed. These were
not farmers or people out in the woods. These were
all military people. In fact, a lot of high ranking
military people, right.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
These were first hand military sources. Now, we do have
the names on some of these, actually quite a few.
I don't have all of them, and I don't think
anybody does, but we do have a number of those,
and those names could be run to ground. We could
check those, we could verify those. I don't have the resources.
I don't have the private investigating capability to track these
(13:33):
people down. And we're talking forties and fifties. A lot
of these people are gone. But we do have a
number of the names. So if we had the firepower,
we could track these people down and they could possibly
lead us to where their supervisors were, and that could
lead us to where this hardware is. Because this whole
thing boils down to the actual physical evidence. Anything less
(13:56):
than that and we're completely wasting our time. There's an
a bum fundance of evidence in the form of CE
ones and C two's, and we don't need another CE
one case. You can go on nicap dot org until
the cows come home. Well, what we need is the
physical hardware to move this whole feel forward. That's what
we're lacking.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
That is one hundred percent on the nose. I think
even if we had that, there's still be a lot
of people that would challenge it and not believe it
in today's climate, so even with that we would be struggling.
And without it, it makes it much more difficult for
a lot of folks to come on board with this,
you know. I also feel, Michael, that a lot of
people don't realize the volume of credible military witnesses who
(14:39):
have claimed to have some sort of interaction directly with
these kind of craft. We hear about David Groush, We've
heard Bob Blazaar, there's a few other famous ones. But
I think most people don't understand the sheer volume of
actual military government officials who have come forward about this
and shared their story. I think someone needs to compile that.
(15:00):
Another thing we could put some people on. Let them
compile that list of all of these people that have
come forward direct first person accounts of their direct contact
with a craft, which is so much stronger than a
light in the sky. Yeah, this is an important part
of the whole thing. The sum total of all of
these cases together, in a sense, is more than just
(15:21):
the facts of any one of its cases on its own.
What are your thoughts on the number of military people
who have had such accounts and do you think there'll
be more coming out with testimonials.
Speaker 5 (15:30):
Well, we've seen the David Grush thing last year. You
know what we need here is not a onesie and
a twosye. We need a united coalition of engineers, test pilots,
people who worked on these programs, people who loaded craft
up and put them on eighteen wheeler tractor trailer low
boys and ship them to write Patterson Air Force Face.
We need like twelve or twenty four of these people
(15:52):
coming together with one united voice, with hard physical evidence,
and it's going to be a lot harder for the
book groups to keep this under wraps. That's what we
really need, and the time is ticking and it's really
the final curtain call on getting these crash retrieval witnesses
to come forward. This is literally the final curtain call
because they're going to age out. You mean they're going
(16:13):
to age out. Yeah, that's what's already happened in Rossow.
You can see behind me here. This is basically the
morning of the eighth July eighth, nineteen forty seven. All
of the original five or ninth bomb group members that
had anything to do with this case, they're all gone.
It's a show in the eyes of the government. It's
cover up complete, and they're just waiting out the clock
for the rest of these crash retrievals that are catching
(16:33):
up really quick now. And these people are just dying
away and no one's tracking these people down, and they're
passing away, and there's an important part of our national
history is slipping right out of our hands.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
No doubt about it, no doubt about it. You know,
Don Schmidt and those guys that did these interviews about
the Roswell case and that they said their biggest problem
was that they were racing against time to catch these
guys before they aged out. And it's a shame we've.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Lost so many year though, because as you know, the
civilians got to the crack site before the military did
the debris field and the crash site. Civilians got there first.
So you know for a fact, and so does Don Schmidt,
and so does Tom Carey. We know one hundred percent
that there are people in Roswell this very hour, this
(17:20):
very second that have pieces of the debris and handed
it down through the family in Roswell right now, talking
about the memory metal, talking about the tingfoil like debris
that could not be cut, could not be burned, could
not be dented with a sixteen pound sledgehammer. And then
the ie beams that is in Roswell right now in
(17:41):
somebody's trunk up on the attic. Who it is, I
don't know, but it's there.
Speaker 4 (17:45):
Once you think by now that someone would have come
forward with that. Don't you think that it feel safe
enough with today's climate?
Speaker 5 (17:51):
They have. It has happened a couple times where Don
and Tom got a call and they got a lead
on someone who has debris, and it always never pans
out right, it always fails. So this evidence is always
two steps ahead of us, but for sure they have it.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
They have it.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
There are families now that handed the debris down through
generations that keep it. Don't ask me why, But you
know they know how valuable it is because the way
this game is played, the way it was explained to
me that you know, literally this is a game. It's
us against them. The way this game is played is
they don't care what you know. They care what you
can prove. So you're welcome to go all over the world.
(18:32):
You can talk all the witnesses and secondhand dead Man testimony,
you can go all university, do whatever you want. Until
you have physical evidence. It's a non issue to them.
You get physical evidence, now you're on the radar screen.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Okay, Let's say they turn in the piece. Somebody calls
tomorrow and says, hey, I found this medal in my garage.
It's roswell metal from a craft, and they get a
tested or whatever. Don't you think that we would then
say that while we've got technology now to do that.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
It would have to be absolutely verified. There has to
be a lineage of how it got there. The grandfather
was at the fob O on ninth or something. There'd have
to be paperwork, documentation, verification. Maybe it'd have to be
sent to Betel Memorial Institute where it was originally sent.
They probably still have some there. Now, if you send
it there, it's probably not going to come back and
(19:21):
it'll be the last time we ever see of it.
So that's a problem too, is getting it verified. It
has to be independently verified by a coalition of engineers
who are involved in metallurgy. They're going to test the
tensile strength of this. I mean, you could literally take
a sixteen pound sledgehammer and nail this thing and it
wouldn't make a dent in it. That's kind of what
we're looking at here. So it's a risky move. They
(19:43):
know how valuable this stuff. Back in forty seven, they
used to go into barns and they would pull up
floorboards and they'd rip open seedbags, and they would threaten
witnesses with death, and this whole thing just way got
out of hand.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I have to admit, Michael, that the sheer volume of
these reports, as well as the many similarities of these accounts,
does point to there being something to these cases, and
our government must have recovered something. Do you find that
these cases have similarities, like you've found different witnesses claim
that the craft was in the middle of a warehouse
and they're scaffolding around it. The more people that have
(20:18):
had the same experience. I feel like that adds to
the credibility of these testimonies. What do you think.
Speaker 5 (20:23):
I don't think I could say it much better, but yes,
you're absolutely correct. What I'm finding after looking at these
cases and even in Ryan Woods book there's similarity too.
Is that when you find a common denominator or feature
described by the military witness, and then you find the
exact same thing by another person, separated by time and space,
now you know you've got a real case. For example,
(20:45):
there's a case within the Stringfield collection that has to
do with the United States Marine. This is December nineteen
sixty three. He was flown on a plane with blackedout
windows from Cherry Point, North Carolina. This is December nineteen
sixty three. Now, this is about a three hour flight
to an undisclosed location that he didn't know what it was.
When he got off the plane, they brought him to
(21:05):
a hangar. They opened up the hangar doors and there
was a forty foot diameter dish shaped craft propped up
on scaffolding about five feet off the floor. There were
multiple teams of white lab coat technicians that were around
this craft. They were examining the craft, and he said
that they were using diamond tip drill bits to try
to breach the whole of this craft and they couldn't
(21:27):
do it. And I got another case from forty six
at Rightfield, Dayton, Ohio, where they were also using diamond
tip drill bits. And I know these two cases are separated.
These witnesses did not know each other, and this is
something that I've seen multiple times in these Stringfield cases.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
We're going to have to stop right there, Michael. You're
listening to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to
Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 4 (23:35):
We are back on Beyond Contact with Captain Ron. I'm
talking with Michael Schrad here. You brought up this nineteen
sixty three case that this marine was testifying to. Seeing this,
it's almost sort of like a clamshow where it's got
the big portals around the side on the edges. Is
that correct?
Speaker 5 (23:50):
Well well done? Well done?
Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
So he walks in and he notices that there are
other guards there as well. His job was to guard
this thing for two weeks. There were men with lab
coat technicians, white lab coats. All these people had color
coded badges on. So if you had a yellow badge,
you could go here. If you had a green badge,
you could go here. If you had a red badge,
you had access to the entire facility. They had a
(24:14):
catwalk wrapped around this thing. It was about forty feet
in diameter. It had nine opaque, elliptically shaped windows wrapped
around the outer circumference. This thing was highly polish reflective exterior.
There were no visible means of propulsion, no rivets, no welds,
no socketthead capstrews, no he's head capscrews. He said that
(24:35):
there was the absolute finest outline of an entryway hatch
on the bottom of the craft. You could not put
a razor blade into that hatch. It was like a
liquid metal hatchway that was embedded into the craft, just
like the granite and limestone blocks of the Giza Plateau
where you could not put a razor blade between those either.
That's what he mentioned that personally, so he's guarding this craft.
(24:58):
He also said that there was a one inch lip
between the outer skin of the craft itself and the
outer portion of these windows. There was definitely a little
lip that you could feel with your thumb. Now, there
was one time where he was left alone by himself
with this craft. He brought in a small Minx camera
and he took a photograph of this thing. That photograph
(25:18):
was lost in a flood back in nineteen eighty three.
We were this close of getting this photograph of this craft.
It would have been a huge thing. And on the
very last day he was there, he saw them lifting
the craft off of its scaffolding. It was being put
on an eighteen wheeler tractor trailer, lowboy truck. They were
covering it with tarps and moving it to the next location.
(25:40):
So what they've done for decades here is they compartmentalize
the information and they moved the assets from one resource
area to the next, and that's how they keep it
under wrapped. So in a nutshell, that is the nineteen
sixty three US Marine case.
Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, and that one had the scaffolding around the ship.
It wasn't it true that they would have people there
that had orders to shoot to kill if you were
within a certain distance from the craft.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
Right, he was given those orders directly.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Yes.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
Wow, there was a white circle painted on the floor
and his job was to shoot anyone who breached that circle.
So it was absolutely his job. And you know, I've
got an original sketch from this marine. This is not
a copy. This is like an original sketch. And what
he describes in the sketch is overhead lighting on either side,
shining down at a forty five degree angle. The whole
(26:29):
place was excruciatingly well lit. That's talked about in many
other retrieval cases. He's got the pads below the craft.
He's got the portion where they're using a diamond tip drill.
Bit in the notes he talks about a laser incident
where after the acetylene torches failed, they brought in a laser.
They shine this laser on the craft. It reflected, bounced
off and damaged a ceiling tile that was talked about
(26:51):
in there. So we have about five pages of original
notes from this guy that Leonard had talked to him.
And then a man named Michael Johnstone why I got
to do about a two hour videotape interview. He described
meeting with this gentleman as well. So we've got some
pretty good paperwork to back this up.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
That's awesome. And like you said, you know, when you
tell someone you have ordered shoot to kill if you
get near this thing, it must be something of importance, right.
Also like there were these newspaper reports in that era,
or maybe it's a little later sixty seventies, where we
had servicemen who said they were instructed to shoot them down,
shoot down UFOs. And of course this is interesting because
(27:31):
once again, if there's nothing there and UFOs don't exist
according to our government, then what are these guys supposed
to be ordered to shoot down? Right?
Speaker 5 (27:38):
Yeah, that order was given in the early nineteen fifties
fifty one, fifty two to fifty three timeframe, and absolutely
correct newspaper clippings, literally dozens and dozens of those clippings
where they were ordered to shoot these things down. And
then we've got a report from a US military officer
who's mentioned in the book, where he was at a
(27:59):
CLII five materials library. He had the correct security clearance
to get to be there. He opened up a file cabinet,
opened up one of these Manila folders, looked inside, and
there was a report on crash retrievals, and they used
the term crashes more than one. They also talked about bodies,
and they talked about a craft that came down very
near Farmington, New Mexico, that was thirty six feet in diameter,
(28:23):
had a low rise dome, it had porthole windows wrapped
around the outer circumference of the upper dome, and then
said that there was a quarter size hull that they
were able to get access to some of the interior,
and they were also using additional diamond tip drill bits
to get into that one as well. So here's we
got three cases now these diamond tip drill bits being used.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
It's interesting to me how you had said earlier that
you felt that these crafts, some of these craft were
not ours. Let's say that right. It's interesting that we
have these craft, we have these stories of this craft,
and then we also do have some military documentation of
people who have worked on these craft and saw these
craft and the fact that it kind of sinks up
(29:05):
does strengthen the case.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Oh, absolutely absolutely. When you look at the common denominator,
when you look at the repeating patterns, and this goes
for not only crash re triebles, but the historical UFO
cases as well. Give you a couple examples. So we've
got nineteen eighty nine nineteen ninety, which is the Belgium triangle,
where we've got about five thousand eyewitnesses that reported a
(29:27):
massive triangular, black shaped craft bought the size of a
football field, having one light at each corner, one amber
light in the center, and then tubes, pipes and cylinders
on the bottom of the craft. Now we go back
in time to nineteen eighty two to nineteen eighty nine
with the Hudson Valley boomerang, but also got reports of tubes,
(29:49):
pipes and cylinders on that. And then we go to
two thousand January fifth, two thousand with the Southern Illinois
Triangle case, where we've got at least five police officers
describing what look like mechanical structure and stacked legos on
the bottom of these craft. And these these are separated
by decades here, and they're describing similar understructure on the
(30:11):
bottom of these vehicles.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
Michael, we've been talking about these cases. Let's move on
for a minute here to some of this black program
stuff that you're also involved in. I know you have
worked with different people in different areas of classified black programs,
including Air Force pilots, retired Navy personnel, aerospace engineers. These
guys have maintained a top secret clearance. What is your
(30:34):
takeaway with your interaction with these guys.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
All I would have to say is that you know,
these are American heroes. We want to respect their privacy,
We want to respect things that are still within line
of their NDA. So I don't want to push the
envelope with them. But if you look at the Bill
Scott collection, who is the former head of Rocky Mountain,
editor of Aviation Week Space Technology, who was probably closer
(30:58):
to the Black World than any Bill Scott got closer
than anyone because he had developed relationships with people who
worked in the defense contractor industry, people who worked at
Air Force Plant forty two, or who worked on the
final assembly line of the B two stealth bomber at
the Northrop facility at Air Force Plant forty two. These
are the kind of people that he was dealing with.
(31:19):
Well over this sixteen year period. He kept getting these
reports of this two staged orbit space plane system. It's
always been rumored that there's something out there, something that
would replace the Blackbird, something that would be a two
staged to orbit space plane system that could be anywhere
in the world in less than two hours. It's always
(31:40):
been rumored. But then when you start looking at the
eyewitness testimony, there's newspaper clippings about people who've seen this
thing flying over. It all boiled down to a man
named James Petty who was living in Utah at the time,
Salt Lake City. He's the only witness that saw both
the mothership and the parasitic air prep at the same time.
(32:01):
And when Bill Scott got that testimony from him, he said,
you know what, We're going to go to press and
they went with that story. That was essentially Bill's final
article for Aviation Weeks based Technology before he retired. And
what they described is and this is a multitude of witnesses,
is something that looked like the sixties XB seventy, this
(32:22):
absolutely massive mothership.
Speaker 4 (32:26):
We're going to have to take a break there. When
we come back, we're going to talk more about this
with Michael. He also does a lot of work with
the black programs and how that whole thing works within
our government. We'll talk about that and more with Michael
Schreudt when we return to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio
and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network.
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Speaker 4 (34:44):
We are back on Beyond Contact. I'm Captain Ron, and
we're discussing the possibility of these UFO craft being real
and being of alien origin. That's very compelling as well.
Speaker 5 (34:55):
Oh yeah, there was a design behind it. It has
canards up front. It has a pilot, copilot and launch
control officer, and that's the liaison between the mothership and
the parasitic aircraft. It's got sixteen foot tall winglets at
the end of the delta wings. It's got very similar
air intake to the XB seventy. It's got six pack
(35:15):
YJ ninety three engines in the back because I've got witnesses.
I spoke to three people personally who have seen this
with their own eyes, and what they describe is on
the bottom of the mother ship, it looks like someone
took an ice cream scooper and just started scooping out
the entire bottom of the aircraft, leaving this cavity, this
empty cavity. So at Area fifty one, you'd have this
(35:37):
parasitic aircraft that tucks up inside this cavity. And let's
say that there's something going on in the Middle East,
so you'd have one of our top pilots get into
the parasitic aircraft. They'd take off from Area fifty one.
They'd fly over Alaska, they make a left hand turn.
Now they're heading toward the Soviet Union, and then they
would drop from the mothership at maybe thirty thousand feet
(35:58):
at Mock one point two, and then they'd pour the
coals to this thing I'm talking about Mocked twelve, and
they'd be screaming over the Soviet Union to make a
left hand turn. Now they're going south toward the Middle East,
and this could be a nuclear radiation proliferation monitoring craft.
They make a left hand turn now they're heading toward Hawaii.
They make about a forty five degree turn back to
(36:19):
Hawaii and all done in less than two hours. This
is called the black Star system. This is a real program.
It did not work as well as they liked it too,
so they shelved it and somewhere out there I can't
tell you where, probably at Area fifty one, there is
this massive mothership and this parasitic aircraft. It's still out there.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
It sounds like an airship carrier. Is pretty for one aircraft, Yes, yeah,
I call it that. Yeah, pretty amazing. And it just
shows you if we're able to build something like that,
you would think would be able to have a lot
more than people are aware of.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
Oh, there's no doubt. At the very minimum, there are
six man classified programs still left over from the Reagan
administration that has not even seen the light of day.
They are in dark storage. They are deep storage right now,
dead storage, probably at the test site. They probably have
some things at Edwards North based complex underground. We're not
going to see them. We may never see them. That's
(37:13):
the tragedy.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Well, I have heard this. You're the guy to ask
this question and maybe you'll you'll dispel this for me.
I had heard at one point that by the time
we see a craft, it's obsolete. So like when we
saw the stealth bomber and we thought, oh wow, they've
already had that for twenty years and it's obsolete to them,
so they don't mind showing us.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
I would agree with that, because what we're dealing with
here are three tiers of technology. Tier one is your common, ordinary,
garden variety, vanilla flavored aircraft, like your F fifteen's, your
F sixteen's, and your F fourteen's, which are retired. That's
that's tier number one.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
It wouldn't be a black budget program, it would be correct.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Yeah, these are things that you'd see at your local
air show. That's tier number one. Now Tier number two
is the previously black programs that have been declassified and
put into the white world. These are your F one
seventeen stealth Fighters, your B two stealth bombers, Boeing Fantomworks,
Bird of Prey, all in the museum now, I mean,
you can go see these things.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
They're there.
Speaker 5 (38:09):
So these are previously black programs that went into the
white world. Now that's tier two. Tier three are the
craft that bypass the accepted laws of physics. They don't
have anything to do with Newtonian physics. So we have
to start throwing out Newtonian physics and start thinking more
along the lines of another type of physics, quantum physics,
(38:32):
things that almost defy reality.
Speaker 4 (38:35):
Here.
Speaker 5 (38:35):
These are your Black triangles, Belgium triangles. These are your
Hudson Valley boomerangs, these are your Southern Illinois triangle January
fifty two thousand. All the other craft that have been
reverse engineered from recovered technology that falls into the category,
those are the things that I like to focus on.
It's the level three, the Tier three aircraft.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Well, if you think a lot of these crash retrievals
from UFOs have been captured by us, do you think
many of these that you're referring to now this tier
could be backward engineered from off world craft.
Speaker 5 (39:09):
Absolutely, And not only that is because you know, this
story is a lot more sinister than I like to
go down. I'm really about the hardware. I don't really
focus in all the inner workings of political aspects and
dealing with people in government and everything and the sinister
intelligence community. I mean, it's all part of this big story.
(39:31):
But it's very clear at this point that what has
been going on is that there's a roague group within
the military industrial complex slash intelligence community that are targeting, tracking,
and shooting these vehicles down to exploit two things. Number one,
their free energy propulsion systems.
Speaker 4 (39:48):
That's one.
Speaker 5 (39:49):
Number two is their weapons advanced technology. And they will
stop at nothing to get those two things figured out.
At nothing, So they're piggybacking on pre existing radar systems,
using scaler weapons directed energy weapons to target, track, and
shoot these things down.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
So you're not saying these are necessarily crashes, they are
in fact being shut down.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
This is purposely done. Yes, purposely done.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
Let's talk about the ones that are crashing. You know,
the skeptics will say, how come they can make it
all the way across light years of space and then
they get here and they crash in roswell because it's
raining outside.
Speaker 5 (40:25):
There's no way you're going to have an advanced civilization
that might be one hundred million light years away and
they're going to come through gravity wells. They're going to
come through quirks, they're going to come through quasars, they're
going to come from different black holes and then they
finally get here and crash. It absolutely doesn't make sense whatsoever.
I think the numbers are showing that a vast majority
of these things are actually shut down a little bit
(40:48):
harder to prove, but I think we could have some
of those instances as well, where they're hand me downs.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
You know what's interesting is we often hear about sightings,
and we often hear about crashes, even crash retrievals, but
I don't I call hearing hardly at all about eyewitness
accounts of a UFO being shot down. You would think
that would be pretty dramatic and people would see it.
Speaker 5 (41:08):
These things can materialize and de materialize at will, and
the second they de materialize into this dimension, they're already
hit with one of these directed energy weapons, so it's instantaneous.
You look at all the witnesses within Night Siege that
was written, all of them describe nighttime sightings like ninety
(41:29):
nine percent of them and above. So why weren't they
seen during the day? Because someone is flying these things
at night for a certain agenda.
Speaker 4 (41:37):
Your other book, you talked about different ways people could
tell the difference between a man made UFO and a
non man made UFO, and what are those.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
Tested on Thursday nights? So that's number one. Why Thursday,
because Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday is pre flight, Thursday is the
test flight, Friday's debrief, Saturday Sunday. There's nobody at the
base now that held up between the early nineteen eighties
up till around nineteen ninety five time frame. After that,
they test these things on Saturdays, and they test these
(42:07):
things on holidays. If you see tubes, pipes and cylinders,
that could be one of ours. If you see socket
head capscrews, if you see weld marks, if you see
the falling leaf phenomenon, it could be one of ours.
Because a lot of these times, when you have a
man made craft and it's in a localized gravity field,
they need time to spool up and get stabilized first.
(42:30):
Until that happens, you've got this falling leaf phenomenon. If
you hear a high pitched drilling noise prior to takeoff
or on approach to landing, it could be one of ours.
If you see lights flashing in sequence, like reds go off,
yellows go off, greens go off in sequenced and then
in a repeating pattern, it's most likely one of ours,
and even nobody less than Stanton Friedman. He talked about quote,
(42:52):
wings on an extraterrestrial spacecraft could only be for decoration.
So if you see a flying wing out there, why
do you need wings in a vacuum? It doesn't make
any sense. So even Stanton Freeman knew that we're dealing
with a man made technology here.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
Thank you, brother. That was really good stuff.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
Man, great, great to be with you.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
I really appreciate all the hard research you do. I
think you're a very valuable member of our community and
we really really appreciate your work. You guys should go
to Michael's YouTube page and check out all of his videos.
He's got a lot of in detail accounts of different
historic crash retrieval cases and it's fascinating. Thank you for
listening to Beyond Contact. We'll be back next week with
an all new episode. You can follow me Captain Ron
(43:32):
on Twitter and Instagram at CD underscore Captain Ron. Stay
connected by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay open
minded and rational as we explore the unknown right here
on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost
Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out
all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going
to iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 5 (44:07):
Mm hmm
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