June 22, 2024 • 23 mins
The first part of today’s episode has us talking with Denise Resnik, the founder and president/CEO of First Place…an enterprise dedicated to helping those with autism transition into a routine-based adult life. As a result of her experience in this field, she is able to have an in-depth conversation about not just the effects of autism on families, communities, and society, but also to give insight into the particular pitfalls and problems that result from the intersection of life as a minority and as a person with autism.
www.civiccipher.com
Follow us: @CivicCipher @iamqward @ramsesja
Consideration for today's show was provided by:
Major Threads menswear www.MajorThreads.com
Hip Hop Weekly Magazine www.hiphopweekly.com
The Black Information Network Daily Podcast www.binnews.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
Ramses job.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He is Ramsy's job. I am qboard and you are
tuned into Civic Scipher.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And we have a very special guest in the studio
with us today. She goes by the name of Denise
d Resnik. She is the founder and president slash CEO
of First Place a Z, co founder of the Southwest
Autism Research and Resource Center, and founder and CEO of
DRA Collective, a marketing slash communications firm that serves clients
in a variety of fields including real estate, economic development, healthcare, education,
(00:37):
and hospitality. Today, we are using her decades of experience
with autism to discuss neurodivergence in bipop communities and what
happens at that intersection. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, thank you and thank you for allowing me to
be here. And actually the most important part of my
title is being a mom. I'm the mother of two
amazing children. Our thirty three year old son has autism,
profound autism, and that's what brings me to this work.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, fantastic. Well, we are going to be having a
conversation about, you know, what happens again at that intersection
of neurodivergence and being a person of color, and you know,
maybe some of the cracks in society that neurodivergent people
(01:29):
might fall into, and how that could be even more
problematic for people of color, you know, and we're talking
about how individuals might get in trouble at school or
have to interact with police, or you know, have problems
you know, getting housing and things like this, and again
(01:52):
how much more problematic that is if you're a person
of color versus if you're a white person. So that
and so much more. But before we get there, we
are going to, as always, start things off with some Ebony.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Excellence, shall we?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I think we shall.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
This week's Ebny excellence brought to you by Actively Black,
which I am actually wearing today. There is greatness in
our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. This story is
from Black Information Network. Maryland Governor Wes Moore is pardoning
one hundred and seventy five thousand low level marijuana convictions.
In an interview with The Washington Posts, Moore announced that
(02:27):
he was making the mass pardon on Monday, June seventeenth,
ahead of Juneteenth. The pardons will affect, I'm sorry, roughly
one hundred thousand people charged with the low level marijuana possession.
More described the mass pardon as and a quote far
reaching and aggressive end quote executive action amid the growing
legalization of marijuana. According to the American Civil Liberties Union,
(02:49):
black Americans are three times more likely to be arrested
on marijuana charges than their white counterparts. More said criminal
records from marijuana charges have been used to deny housing, employment,
and education to people even after their sentences have been served.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I'm aesthetic that we have a real opportunity with what
I'm signing to write a lot of historical wrongs. More said,
if you want to be able to create inclusive economic growth,
it means you have to start removing these barriers that
continue to disproportionately sit on communities of color and quote.
Maryland Attorney General Anthony Brown said in the statement that
pardons were and I quote certainly long overdue as a
(03:28):
nation and a racial equity issue. It's pretty powerful, man,
and probably long overdue in a lot of other places,
not just in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And Wesmore really shows kind of the importance of voting
in local elections. It shows the importance of letting, you know,
the people closest to the problem, you know, explain the solutions,
because you know, as they say, the people closest the
problem are often closest to the solutions. And you know,
(03:59):
to see what he's doing with his leadership role is amazing.
So all right, so first things first, I need to
paint a little bit of a picture here. I have
a cousin. My cousin's name is Asher, and Asher was
(04:22):
this bright little baby boy. I'm a lot older than Asher,
and you know, he was so much fun when he
was little. And you know, Asher, it ended up we
ended up finding out later that he had autism. And
(04:43):
you know, my uncle and my aunt they fortunately they
had some resources they were able to to deal with that.
They were able to take the time and to invest
and to get you know, early involvement from professionals and
so forth and so on. And we realized that that story,
(05:08):
for especially for a black family, a family of color,
is more the exception than the rule. And you know,
one of the things that sort of brought me to you, Denise,
is how involved his parents were and indeed how involved
(05:28):
our family is with kind of taking care of each other,
we learned. So let me back up a bit. My
grandmother she ended up having a stroke before she passed away,
and she was committed to a place where I think
where they just commit people that have they're like recovering
(05:51):
from these like really traumatic whatever. In her case, it
was a stroke, and so there was a lot of
older people in the place, and it just kind of
looked like an old folks home. And I know that
it wasn't that, but that's how it looked. Now, my
grandmother had six kids and all, and there were five
girls and one boy, and all those kids had kids,
(06:16):
So my grandmother had a lot of grandkids, and she
changed everybody's diapers, right, So when the time came for
her to need to be changed, far be it from
us to just simply ship her off to a place
and let some strangers deal with it. Especially because she
had that stroke, she could no longer speak. There was
(06:39):
an air bubble on the language centers of her brain.
So we decided, you know what, she changed all of us,
we can change her, right, and we and to be fair,
We let the professionals do what they did, but my grandmother.
The point is, my grandmother was never left in that
facility alone by herself, and as a result, we were
(07:02):
on a schedule to make sure that she was cared
for and whatever family members were always there twenty four
to seven, and that was just to keep a watchful
eye over her. But what I found when I visited
First Place was that a lot of the pressure was off.
It seemed like a great place. So talk to us
a little bit about First.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Place, sure, And I think I'll start, if it's okay,
with talking a little bit more about autism, because there
may be some listeners who may be questioning some of
the behaviors of their children, and awareness is very important.
When our son was diagnosed thirty one years ago, the
instance of autism was one in twenty five hundred. Today
(07:41):
one and thirty six children across the country are being
diagnosed with autism. Well, and we know that our white
families are often getting diagnosed before they enter school. We
know that our families and individuals of color are too
often getting diagnosed at school where they see the behaviors.
And so it's really important that we have greater awareness
(08:04):
about what is autism. Autism is a neuro biological disorder
in our son's case, is making him making it very
difficult for him to communicate, both expressively as well as receptively.
Early on, we saw the eye contact, but then he
lost that eye contact and we didn't understand why. We
(08:25):
thought perhaps he was going deaf, and he had a
lot of gi issues and sensitivity issues where he would
put his little hands over his ears because the music
was too loud even though we were playing it softly,
or different pitches were bothersome to him. He continues to
wear those headphones because he is hyper sensitive, or some
(08:47):
individuals could be hypo sensitive, so not as sensitive to
pain or to sensory issues. And so it's really important
to understand those signs. And we've done a really good
job the past few decades of helping those pediatricians get
it right, helping them understand those early warning signs along
with our school teachers to make sure that kids can
(09:09):
be diagnosed early. And what is happening now is there's
an unprecedented rate of children with autism transitioning to adulthood,
some who had early intervention, some who did not, some
who have been you know, we've been investing in in
their schools or families. You know, this early intervention, this
insurance that covers some of the early intervention too. And
(09:32):
once the school bus stops coming, there's a cliff, and
these kids slide backwards at a far greater rate than
other disability groups. And if someone's not making you, requiring
you to talk in full sentences, or you don't have
the same structure of a day, you might see more
behavioral issues. And we can't forget puberty. Puberty also is
(09:54):
at play here and often misunderstood in terms of how
autism and a diagnosis of autism might mask other things
going on. So a physician or somebody a professional might
see the autism but not recognize that maybe it's diabetes,
maybe it's you know, puberty, maybe it's these other things.
And as a white woman, I can only imagine what
(10:16):
it might be like for a person of color to
experience that in the greater community, because I know for
our family that experiences are really important. Practicing is really important,
and we don't always get it right. As a matter
of fact, communities inclusive communities are perfectly imperfect. We get
it wrong, but it's what we do after we get
(10:38):
it wrong. That matters that practicing, So believe me, I
got plenty of stink guys in the shopping you know,
in the grocery store just down the street here as
a matter of fact, of people looking at my kid
and thinking that he was misbehaving, not understanding that it
was autism. So I wanted to make sure that for
all of your listeners that at one in thirty six
they likely know or will meet some a child or
(11:01):
an adult or somebody in their life that is on
the autism spectrum disorder. And how we approach that with understanding,
with grace, with inclusivity is really important, and we need
that in all different spectrums, in all different spheres. So
I really appreciate this chance to be able to join
you and learn from you, and to be able to
(11:23):
live my authentic self because my background is community and
real estate development. And when I was receiving that diagnosis
of autism and told in nineteen ninety three that I
should love, accept and plan to institutionalize my child, I
went to institutions and homes not far from where we're
sitting right now, and I have to tell you I
(11:44):
freaked out there was no way that I was going
to place my son in one of those places. So
I have been committed for decades to finding a better way,
and as a charitable nonprofit, which is First Place, we
can't do it alone. We need all the sectors working
with us. So we work with public sector, with private sector,
with charitable nonprofit sector. And so for your listeners and
(12:07):
their community, taking what they have, and you have your talent,
you have your voice, you have your platform. I have
some different expertise. Taking what we have to make sure
that we can do the best job possible in our
local communities where our families, our loved ones live and
practice it and make sure that we get it right.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Okay, So I was fortunate enough to go on a
tour of First Place, and I had a chance to
meet a lot of the people that work there and
to really do a deep dive into the nature of
the work and really why a place like this is
(12:49):
really important. And I'll share a bit about what I learned,
because the truth of the matter is that this was
a big blind spot for me as well. Despite having
a cousin who was autistic, you know, there was so
much that I just didn't really think about in terms
(13:09):
of the ways that affects the condition affects individuals themselves,
the ways that it affects people around them, the ways
that it could create frustrations for all parties involved. And
then there's a whole other facet of it too, which is,
you know, how do these people make a life for
themselves outside of you know, when you think of autism.
(13:34):
You know, at least for me, when I think of autism,
I think of something that is, you know, that kids
deal with, and so to reconceive of the concept of
autism around an adult and what comes with adulthood, everything
that comes with adulthood, not just you know, jobs and
(13:57):
and you know, responsibilities and routine and all that sort
of stuff, but you know, paying bills and commuting and
all these other things that are just part and parcel
to that experience. You know, first Place kind of steps
in and fills in those gaps. So I know that
we can't call it a facility.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Right for me, it's the f word if it's not
used for first or forever, because it's not a facility,
and we never wanted to create a facility.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
We live in homes, and you know, people don't live
in four walls. They live in their community. So it's
not just where you sleep at night or make your meal,
it's what do you do all day. It's about that
purposeful living. And no matter where your cousin is and
where our sun is, people deserve those opportunities to learn,
(14:46):
to grow, to volunteer, to contribute to their communities in
some way and in many ways. They can bring out
kindness in our community. That we have someone who's a
bit more vulnerable among us, how we protect ourselves protect them.
And I love this definition of community about the people
in our lives. We don't pay to care about us.
(15:07):
And you think about your grandmother and the people who
no doubt we're checking on her, who aren't related to
her either, but who cared about her. And so community
is a really important part. And at first place, we
have positioned that property, that building, that apartment community in
what is known as the most autism friendly city in
the world, and that's according to PBS News Hour. And
(15:31):
that series was produced back in twenty sixteen at the
time of our groundbreaking.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And you could say the name of this film.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
It's the series called A Place in the World, and
it was produced by PBS News Hour and it's twenty sixteen,
and basically we had given then the journalists who produced
that series a tour on the light rail here, showing
them all the different places, all the doors that we've
opened for healthcare, for employment, for volunteerism, for helping these organizations,
(16:07):
these for prophecies, nonprofitcies, recreational spaces, to learn how to
work with people with autism, how to accept them, how
to include them, and building an inclusive community takes a
lot of practice. And I love diverse communities. I'm a
woman who's Jewish and bringing our brothers and sisters and
(16:27):
people of all faiths in what it does to enrich
our lives and enrich our communities. So First Place is
an eighty one thousand square foot property designed not just
for people with autism, but for people who need supportive housing.
And it's for people who might present with autism or
down syndrome, or intellectual and developmental disabilities. Because my sitting
(16:48):
here and being a senior doesn't tell either of you
what I need or want in my housing. Need to
somebody's diagnosis. And that's work that we're doing not only
here in Greater Phoenix, but across the country. Helping them,
those local leaders, those local stakeholders, understand how to use
the same language and expressing need and actually producing housing
(17:08):
market data so that they can go to their policy officials.
Because we have a housing crisis. We know that that's
no secret. It's important for us to make sure we're
not only at the table with our hearts, but at
the table with data demonstrating what we want and need
and making sure that that's part of the equation.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You know, you need to be in front of a
microphone far more often than you are. I don't know
how often you are now, but you need to do
it more well because I'm sitting here listening to you,
and I'm not just being educated, but just the way
that you speak, Because anybody could deliver the information, the
way that you deliver the information makes it very easy
to receive. It's very clear for someone who's not as
(17:47):
familiar with spectrum or autism or the raising of children
and loved ones and even strangers in that space. So
please find more opportunities you have. You can come here
whenever you want, as often as you want, but need
to not just hear this information, but hear it from
you because the way that you deliver. It is really incredible.
It's really welcoming. It's not just informative, but it's I
(18:09):
don't even know the right word, like, I'm listening to
it and I care about it. I'm not just learning.
It's now something that means something to me. And we've
only been here for a few minutes. So as many
opportunities as you have to have a microphone in front
of you having this conversation, please do it more because
it's necessary. You spoke before about the likelihood of diagnosis,
(18:32):
especially with regard to the difference in those who grow
up in white communities and those that are people of color.
We know that the information, the awareness is important not
just with the people who care about us, but with
society at large. The way that law enforcement responds to us,
the way that educators respond to us when they know
(18:55):
that there's someone on the spectrum that's in their presence.
How do people in gree or I guess a better
way to put it is, how are people more likely
to be diagnosed or have access to being diagnosed so
that their journey growing up and experiencing the world is
better than if not? Because we've seen how when those
(19:15):
behaviors are mistaken, like you said, at the grocery store,
and people think, oh, your son is just misbehaving, having
no idea how to interpret what they see. How do
we increase the likelihood of that?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, and I want to add to that just a
little bit. So a while back, we had a woman
up on this show. Her name is Janelle Wood, and
she came and spoke to us about what's called the
school to prison pipeline. Basically, there was the criminalization of
(19:49):
juvenile delinquency or whatever that really shaped outcomes for children
of color. You know, they're more likely to be disciplined
and arrested at every single gra level, regardless of the infraction.
There was a criminal element associated with these children. And
you know, you mentioned that white families often get access
(20:10):
to diagnoses and that oftentimes black and brown families don't
have access to these same diagnoses. So do SI favor
and kind of speak on that a little bit and
how that might shape outcomes.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
There are a number of sources that people can turn to.
There's certainly the Autism Society of America Autism Speaks and
here at the organization that I co founded called the
Southwest Autism Research and resource center. They're able to diagnose
children remotely to cut the waiting list, to cut the cost.
And it is called NODA Natural Observation Diagnostic Assessment, and
(20:47):
it prescribes for that family member different video to upload
so that the professionals can view that and can also
render a diagnosis. The earlier that somebody can get diagnosed,
the earlier the benefits can start, specifically insurance, whether that's
public or private insurance. And that early intervention is key,
but it's not the only time people can learn. People
(21:09):
can learn throughout their lifetimes. And so I appreciate what
you were saying to you in terms of the passion
that I have for this. It is complex, It is complicated.
You want to get to kids early, you want to
make sure that the ecosystem, the community is also prepared,
(21:29):
and that does take time. And so most recently I
was with former Sheriff Great Markopa County Sheriff Paul Penzone,
and he has recognized that there are people in his
prison system who don't belong there, but they are there
because of their autism or an intellectual and developmental disability,
and they need to be treated differently than those other
(21:51):
people in prison. And so recognizing what it is and
how we can also train law enforcement to better understand
the sign so that they are they don't escalate a situation.
And so we were just at an international training conference
for law enforcement officers, and there are training programs across
(22:12):
the country that local communities can access. One of them
is called be Safe. We also offer something here at
the Southwest Autism Research and Resource Center.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Do me a favorite. Let's let's send folks to a
website and then take a break, but sure shop a
website where folks can get at least some of.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Those emport first place and spell out first first place,
global dot org.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
First place, global dot org. All right, so when we
come back, I want to have a conversation about exactly
what happens or could happen at the intersection of autism
and the criminal justice system, because you know, we obviously
talk about a lot of that sort of stuff here
on this show, and I want to spend some time
(22:55):
also talking about sort of the economic opportunities that exist
for folks with autism.
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I'm your host,
Ramses job.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He is Ramsy's job. I am qboard and you are
tuned into Civic Scipher.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And we have a very special guest in the studio
with us today. She goes by the name of Denise
d Resnik. She is the founder and president slash CEO
of First Place a Z, co founder of the Southwest
Autism Research and Resource Center, and founder and CEO of
DRA Collective, a marketing slash communications firm that serves clients
in a variety of fields including real estate, economic development, healthcare, education,
(00:37):
and hospitality. Today, we are using her decades of experience
with autism to discuss neurodivergence in bipop communities and what
happens at that intersection. So welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Well, thank you and thank you for allowing me to
be here. And actually the most important part of my
title is being a mom. I'm the mother of two
amazing children. Our thirty three year old son has autism,
profound autism, and that's what brings me to this work.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, fantastic. Well, we are going to be having a
conversation about, you know, what happens again at that intersection
of neurodivergence and being a person of color, and you know,
maybe some of the cracks in society that neurodivergent people
(01:29):
might fall into, and how that could be even more
problematic for people of color, you know, and we're talking
about how individuals might get in trouble at school or
have to interact with police, or you know, have problems
you know, getting housing and things like this, and again
(01:52):
how much more problematic that is if you're a person
of color versus if you're a white person. So that
and so much more. But before we get there, we
are going to, as always, start things off with some Ebony.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Excellence, shall we?
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I think we shall.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
This week's Ebny excellence brought to you by Actively Black,
which I am actually wearing today. There is greatness in
our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. This story is
from Black Information Network. Maryland Governor Wes Moore is pardoning
one hundred and seventy five thousand low level marijuana convictions.
In an interview with The Washington Posts, Moore announced that
(02:27):
he was making the mass pardon on Monday, June seventeenth,
ahead of Juneteenth. The pardons will affect, I'm sorry, roughly
one hundred thousand people charged with the low level marijuana possession.
More described the mass pardon as and a quote far
reaching and aggressive end quote executive action amid the growing
legalization of marijuana. According to the American Civil Liberties Union,
(02:49):
black Americans are three times more likely to be arrested
on marijuana charges than their white counterparts. More said criminal
records from marijuana charges have been used to deny housing, employment,
and education to people even after their sentences have been served.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Quote.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I'm aesthetic that we have a real opportunity with what
I'm signing to write a lot of historical wrongs. More said,
if you want to be able to create inclusive economic growth,
it means you have to start removing these barriers that
continue to disproportionately sit on communities of color and quote.
Maryland Attorney General Anthony Brown said in the statement that
pardons were and I quote certainly long overdue as a
(03:28):
nation and a racial equity issue. It's pretty powerful, man,
and probably long overdue in a lot of other places,
not just in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
And Wesmore really shows kind of the importance of voting
in local elections. It shows the importance of letting, you know,
the people closest to the problem, you know, explain the solutions,
because you know, as they say, the people closest the
problem are often closest to the solutions. And you know,
(03:59):
to see what he's doing with his leadership role is amazing.
So all right, so first things first, I need to
paint a little bit of a picture here. I have
a cousin. My cousin's name is Asher, and Asher was
(04:22):
this bright little baby boy. I'm a lot older than Asher,
and you know, he was so much fun when he
was little. And you know, Asher, it ended up we
ended up finding out later that he had autism. And
(04:43):
you know, my uncle and my aunt they fortunately they
had some resources they were able to to deal with that.
They were able to take the time and to invest
and to get you know, early involvement from professionals and
so forth and so on. And we realized that that story,
(05:08):
for especially for a black family, a family of color,
is more the exception than the rule. And you know,
one of the things that sort of brought me to you, Denise,
is how involved his parents were and indeed how involved
(05:28):
our family is with kind of taking care of each other,
we learned. So let me back up a bit. My
grandmother she ended up having a stroke before she passed away,
and she was committed to a place where I think
where they just commit people that have they're like recovering
(05:51):
from these like really traumatic whatever. In her case, it
was a stroke, and so there was a lot of
older people in the place, and it just kind of
looked like an old folks home. And I know that
it wasn't that, but that's how it looked. Now, my
grandmother had six kids and all, and there were five
girls and one boy, and all those kids had kids,
(06:16):
So my grandmother had a lot of grandkids, and she
changed everybody's diapers, right, So when the time came for
her to need to be changed, far be it from
us to just simply ship her off to a place
and let some strangers deal with it. Especially because she
had that stroke, she could no longer speak. There was
(06:39):
an air bubble on the language centers of her brain.
So we decided, you know what, she changed all of us,
we can change her, right, and we and to be fair,
We let the professionals do what they did, but my grandmother.
The point is, my grandmother was never left in that
facility alone by herself, and as a result, we were
(07:02):
on a schedule to make sure that she was cared
for and whatever family members were always there twenty four
to seven, and that was just to keep a watchful
eye over her. But what I found when I visited
First Place was that a lot of the pressure was off.
It seemed like a great place. So talk to us
a little bit about First.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Place, sure, And I think I'll start, if it's okay,
with talking a little bit more about autism, because there
may be some listeners who may be questioning some of
the behaviors of their children, and awareness is very important.
When our son was diagnosed thirty one years ago, the
instance of autism was one in twenty five hundred. Today
(07:41):
one and thirty six children across the country are being
diagnosed with autism. Well, and we know that our white
families are often getting diagnosed before they enter school. We
know that our families and individuals of color are too
often getting diagnosed at school where they see the behaviors.
And so it's really important that we have greater awareness
(08:04):
about what is autism. Autism is a neuro biological disorder
in our son's case, is making him making it very
difficult for him to communicate, both expressively as well as receptively.
Early on, we saw the eye contact, but then he
lost that eye contact and we didn't understand why. We
(08:25):
thought perhaps he was going deaf, and he had a
lot of gi issues and sensitivity issues where he would
put his little hands over his ears because the music
was too loud even though we were playing it softly,
or different pitches were bothersome to him. He continues to
wear those headphones because he is hyper sensitive, or some
(08:47):
individuals could be hypo sensitive, so not as sensitive to
pain or to sensory issues. And so it's really important
to understand those signs. And we've done a really good
job the past few decades of helping those pediatricians get
it right, helping them understand those early warning signs along
with our school teachers to make sure that kids can
(09:09):
be diagnosed early. And what is happening now is there's
an unprecedented rate of children with autism transitioning to adulthood,
some who had early intervention, some who did not, some
who have been you know, we've been investing in in
their schools or families. You know, this early intervention, this
insurance that covers some of the early intervention too. And
(09:32):
once the school bus stops coming, there's a cliff, and
these kids slide backwards at a far greater rate than
other disability groups. And if someone's not making you, requiring
you to talk in full sentences, or you don't have
the same structure of a day, you might see more
behavioral issues. And we can't forget puberty. Puberty also is
(09:54):
at play here and often misunderstood in terms of how
autism and a diagnosis of autism might mask other things
going on. So a physician or somebody a professional might
see the autism but not recognize that maybe it's diabetes,
maybe it's you know, puberty, maybe it's these other things.
And as a white woman, I can only imagine what
(10:16):
it might be like for a person of color to
experience that in the greater community, because I know for
our family that experiences are really important. Practicing is really important,
and we don't always get it right. As a matter
of fact, communities inclusive communities are perfectly imperfect. We get
it wrong, but it's what we do after we get
(10:38):
it wrong. That matters that practicing, So believe me, I
got plenty of stink guys in the shopping you know,
in the grocery store just down the street here as
a matter of fact, of people looking at my kid
and thinking that he was misbehaving, not understanding that it
was autism. So I wanted to make sure that for
all of your listeners that at one in thirty six
they likely know or will meet some a child or
(11:01):
an adult or somebody in their life that is on
the autism spectrum disorder. And how we approach that with understanding,
with grace, with inclusivity is really important, and we need
that in all different spectrums, in all different spheres. So
I really appreciate this chance to be able to join
you and learn from you, and to be able to
(11:23):
live my authentic self because my background is community and
real estate development. And when I was receiving that diagnosis
of autism and told in nineteen ninety three that I
should love, accept and plan to institutionalize my child, I
went to institutions and homes not far from where we're
sitting right now, and I have to tell you I
(11:44):
freaked out there was no way that I was going
to place my son in one of those places. So
I have been committed for decades to finding a better way,
and as a charitable nonprofit, which is First Place, we
can't do it alone. We need all the sectors working
with us. So we work with public sector, with private sector,
with charitable nonprofit sector. And so for your listeners and
(12:07):
their community, taking what they have, and you have your talent,
you have your voice, you have your platform. I have
some different expertise. Taking what we have to make sure
that we can do the best job possible in our
local communities where our families, our loved ones live and
practice it and make sure that we get it right.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
Okay, So I was fortunate enough to go on a
tour of First Place, and I had a chance to
meet a lot of the people that work there and
to really do a deep dive into the nature of
the work and really why a place like this is
(12:49):
really important. And I'll share a bit about what I learned,
because the truth of the matter is that this was
a big blind spot for me as well. Despite having
a cousin who was autistic, you know, there was so
much that I just didn't really think about in terms
(13:09):
of the ways that affects the condition affects individuals themselves,
the ways that it affects people around them, the ways
that it could create frustrations for all parties involved. And
then there's a whole other facet of it too, which is,
you know, how do these people make a life for
themselves outside of you know, when you think of autism.
(13:34):
You know, at least for me, when I think of autism,
I think of something that is, you know, that kids
deal with, and so to reconceive of the concept of
autism around an adult and what comes with adulthood, everything
that comes with adulthood, not just you know, jobs and
(13:57):
and you know, responsibilities and routine and all that sort
of stuff, but you know, paying bills and commuting and
all these other things that are just part and parcel
to that experience. You know, first Place kind of steps
in and fills in those gaps. So I know that
we can't call it a facility.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Right for me, it's the f word if it's not
used for first or forever, because it's not a facility,
and we never wanted to create a facility.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
We live in homes, and you know, people don't live
in four walls. They live in their community. So it's
not just where you sleep at night or make your meal,
it's what do you do all day. It's about that
purposeful living. And no matter where your cousin is and
where our sun is, people deserve those opportunities to learn,
(14:46):
to grow, to volunteer, to contribute to their communities in
some way and in many ways. They can bring out
kindness in our community. That we have someone who's a
bit more vulnerable among us, how we protect ourselves protect them.
And I love this definition of community about the people
in our lives. We don't pay to care about us.
(15:07):
And you think about your grandmother and the people who
no doubt we're checking on her, who aren't related to
her either, but who cared about her. And so community
is a really important part. And at first place, we
have positioned that property, that building, that apartment community in
what is known as the most autism friendly city in
the world, and that's according to PBS News Hour. And
(15:31):
that series was produced back in twenty sixteen at the
time of our groundbreaking.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And you could say the name of this film.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
It's the series called A Place in the World, and
it was produced by PBS News Hour and it's twenty sixteen,
and basically we had given then the journalists who produced
that series a tour on the light rail here, showing
them all the different places, all the doors that we've
opened for healthcare, for employment, for volunteerism, for helping these organizations,
(16:07):
these for prophecies, nonprofitcies, recreational spaces, to learn how to
work with people with autism, how to accept them, how
to include them, and building an inclusive community takes a
lot of practice. And I love diverse communities. I'm a
woman who's Jewish and bringing our brothers and sisters and
(16:27):
people of all faiths in what it does to enrich
our lives and enrich our communities. So First Place is
an eighty one thousand square foot property designed not just
for people with autism, but for people who need supportive housing.
And it's for people who might present with autism or
down syndrome, or intellectual and developmental disabilities. Because my sitting
(16:48):
here and being a senior doesn't tell either of you
what I need or want in my housing. Need to
somebody's diagnosis. And that's work that we're doing not only
here in Greater Phoenix, but across the country. Helping them,
those local leaders, those local stakeholders, understand how to use
the same language and expressing need and actually producing housing
(17:08):
market data so that they can go to their policy officials.
Because we have a housing crisis. We know that that's
no secret. It's important for us to make sure we're
not only at the table with our hearts, but at
the table with data demonstrating what we want and need
and making sure that that's part of the equation.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You know, you need to be in front of a
microphone far more often than you are. I don't know
how often you are now, but you need to do
it more well because I'm sitting here listening to you,
and I'm not just being educated, but just the way
that you speak, Because anybody could deliver the information, the
way that you deliver the information makes it very easy
to receive. It's very clear for someone who's not as
(17:47):
familiar with spectrum or autism or the raising of children
and loved ones and even strangers in that space. So
please find more opportunities you have. You can come here
whenever you want, as often as you want, but need
to not just hear this information, but hear it from
you because the way that you deliver. It is really incredible.
It's really welcoming. It's not just informative, but it's I
(18:09):
don't even know the right word, like, I'm listening to
it and I care about it. I'm not just learning.
It's now something that means something to me. And we've
only been here for a few minutes. So as many
opportunities as you have to have a microphone in front
of you having this conversation, please do it more because
it's necessary. You spoke before about the likelihood of diagnosis,
(18:32):
especially with regard to the difference in those who grow
up in white communities and those that are people of color.
We know that the information, the awareness is important not
just with the people who care about us, but with
society at large. The way that law enforcement responds to us,
the way that educators respond to us when they know
(18:55):
that there's someone on the spectrum that's in their presence.
How do people in gree or I guess a better
way to put it is, how are people more likely
to be diagnosed or have access to being diagnosed so
that their journey growing up and experiencing the world is
better than if not? Because we've seen how when those
(19:15):
behaviors are mistaken, like you said, at the grocery store,
and people think, oh, your son is just misbehaving, having
no idea how to interpret what they see. How do
we increase the likelihood of that?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, and I want to add to that just a
little bit. So a while back, we had a woman
up on this show. Her name is Janelle Wood, and
she came and spoke to us about what's called the
school to prison pipeline. Basically, there was the criminalization of
(19:49):
juvenile delinquency or whatever that really shaped outcomes for children
of color. You know, they're more likely to be disciplined
and arrested at every single gra level, regardless of the infraction.
There was a criminal element associated with these children. And
you know, you mentioned that white families often get access
(20:10):
to diagnoses and that oftentimes black and brown families don't
have access to these same diagnoses. So do SI favor
and kind of speak on that a little bit and
how that might shape outcomes.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
There are a number of sources that people can turn to.
There's certainly the Autism Society of America Autism Speaks and
here at the organization that I co founded called the
Southwest Autism Research and resource center. They're able to diagnose
children remotely to cut the waiting list, to cut the cost.
And it is called NODA Natural Observation Diagnostic Assessment, and
(20:47):
it prescribes for that family member different video to upload
so that the professionals can view that and can also
render a diagnosis. The earlier that somebody can get diagnosed,
the earlier the benefits can start, specifically insurance, whether that's
public or private insurance. And that early intervention is key,
but it's not the only time people can learn. People
(21:09):
can learn throughout their lifetimes. And so I appreciate what
you were saying to you in terms of the passion
that I have for this. It is complex, It is complicated.
You want to get to kids early, you want to
make sure that the ecosystem, the community is also prepared,
(21:29):
and that does take time. And so most recently I
was with former Sheriff Great Markopa County Sheriff Paul Penzone,
and he has recognized that there are people in his
prison system who don't belong there, but they are there
because of their autism or an intellectual and developmental disability,
and they need to be treated differently than those other
(21:51):
people in prison. And so recognizing what it is and
how we can also train law enforcement to better understand
the sign so that they are they don't escalate a situation.
And so we were just at an international training conference
for law enforcement officers, and there are training programs across
(22:12):
the country that local communities can access. One of them
is called be Safe. We also offer something here at
the Southwest Autism Research and Resource Center.
Speaker 1 (22:22):
Do me a favorite. Let's let's send folks to a
website and then take a break, but sure shop a
website where folks can get at least some of.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Those emport first place and spell out first first place,
global dot org.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
First place, global dot org. All right, so when we
come back, I want to have a conversation about exactly
what happens or could happen at the intersection of autism
and the criminal justice system, because you know, we obviously
talk about a lot of that sort of stuff here
on this show, and I want to spend some time
(22:55):
also talking about sort of the economic opportunities that exist
for folks with autism.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Missed in History Class
Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.