July 6, 2024 • 23 mins
The first part of today’s episode has us talking about the anti-Muslim violence being endured by our sisters from the Islamic faith. Hijabs are being torn off by police in protests around the country, and we take a moment to explain how degrading and hurtful this action is, and why you should help protect these individuals.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I am
your host, Rams's job.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He is Ramsey's job. I am q Ward. You are
tuned into Civic siden, Yes you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Are, and we got some stuff to talk about today,
so please stick around. Today. We are going to stand
in solidarity with our Muslim sisters, in particular because, as
it turns out, Muslim women are having their hit jobs
torn off by police all over America, and this is
(00:35):
something that we wanted to talk about and we really
wanted to have a Muslim woman on the show, but
it just hasn't timed out, and we wanted to make
sure that we got to the conversation while it was
still more or less in the news, so that you
could you find the articles and do whatever research you
wanted to do to supplement that. Also, we're going to
spend some time talking about Donald Trump, Joe Biden, their debate,
(01:02):
and the Supreme Court. So some housekeeping, some maintenance, some
catching up that we've had to do because we haven't
really been able to spend anytime in the past few
episodes discussing the goings on that are central to politics
in this country and exactly what is at stake, And
so we are going to again spend some time discussing.
(01:27):
Really we have to talk about the Supreme Court because
we are kind of in some unprecedented scary times. But
also we need to, you know, speak to the concerns
surrounding the two candidates and help each other because we're
still processing it as well, but help each other reconcile
what a path forward looks like. There will be a
(01:47):
path forward. We do have to make a decision as
a country, and we need to make sure that it's
the right one. So that and so much more to
stick around for here on Civic Cipher. But before we
get there, like we always do it, this time, let's
start off with excellence, shall we? I think you shall.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
This week's Ebony Excellence ironically sponsored by Actively black. There
is greatness in our DNA visit actively black dot com.
So I wanted to highlight actively black and their founder
Lannie Smith and congratulate them for providing the apparel and
uniforms for the Nigerian Olympic team. As the Olympics are
(02:26):
in a few weeks now. That's a really really big deal.
So Actively Black is a black owned entity created by
former professional basketball player, and that's NBA player Lannie Smith.
We saw avoidant representation, ownership, and investment back into our
communities from existing brands that have profited billions by utilizing
black talent, black culture, and black consumerism. This is a
(02:50):
brand designed by us for us the mission to uplift
and reinvest back into black into the Black community, and
to improve the mental health and physical fitness of our people.
We are not building an apparel brand. The clothes are
just the uniform for the movement. I love that everybody
is welcome to purchase where and support Actively Black, regardless
(03:11):
of race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. As long as
you know and support the purpose and the mission to
uplift the Black community, you are welcome into our tribe.
And a quote from founder Lannie Smith, We're not asking
for a seat at the table anymore. We are building
our own table. I've had the opportunity to meet and
(03:35):
spend time with brother Lannie, and he's an incredible brother.
The brand is incredible. Please check out actively black dot
com and look for actively Black on the Nigerian national
team at this year's Olympics.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Real quick, I want to add something before we move
on that a lot of times non black people will
look at black stuff like it's not for them. Yes,
and that's rarely is that true? And I think actively
black is putting that on full display. So I love that. Okay.
So again, we wanted to cover this story a little
(04:14):
bit sooner because we had heard about these instances of
Muslim women at the protest on the college campuses in
support of Palestine being attacked on the campuses and specifically
having their hit jobs removed, and that is something that
(04:39):
was always very sensitive. It's a sensitive topic, you know.
To Q into me, we know people who are Muslim,
and then women in particular, we know how much discrimination
and fear comes with wearing that out in public, because
(05:01):
there are people who are looking for the easily identifiable
others in this country, as Q would say, and you know,
there's kind of like a wheel that keeps turning. For
a while. It'll be Black people for a while, It'll
be you know, Mexican people for a while. It'll be
Asian people for a while, It'll be folks from the
(05:23):
Middle East, Muslim people, et cetera. But you know, we
all noticed something around here in two thousand and one
because we were alive back then, but we noticed that,
you know, there was a shift in the country in
the way that the country approached Muslim people, and the
(05:47):
way the news covered Muslim people, and the way that
the jokes went back and forth on stage about Muslim people.
And somehow the faith known as Islam became associated with
terrorism and suicide bombings and all of these things that
(06:09):
that is not what the faith is about. Just a
little bit of background on me. I grew up Christian.
My father was a Christian minister, but my father had
his doctorate in theology, meaning that he had to study
all of the religions, not just Christianity. And one of
(06:30):
the things that I've said many times throughout my life
is that where education exists, prejudice cannot. And often enough,
that's the truth. Education and prejudice are like natural enemies
to each other. My father was not a prejudiced man
when it came to other faiths, certainly not Abrahamic religions
(06:53):
like Islam, like Judaism, because they are all born from
the same sort of root system and as a result
of that, we were not raised me, my brothers, my sisters.
We were not raised to regard Christianity as something that
is greater than or lesser than any other faith. Right.
(07:17):
And so once nine to eleven took place and people
who subscribed to Islam for their faith became under attack
and under this intense scrutiny, my heart was broken for them, right,
(07:39):
and I did my best to you know, stand in solidarity.
But you know, I was a kid at the time,
and you know, you just do what you can on
your college campus or whatever. You know, not certainly weren't
at a level we're at now, right. But I remember
talking to people who lived through that time, and you know,
again we have friends who lived through that time, and
(07:59):
they have told us how scary that was and how
they had to hide a piece of themselves and had
to you know, for safety and for fear. Right. And
I discovered how important he jobs are. It's not unlike
you know, for Jewish folks who wear yamakas or keep
us right. And there are Jewish women who cover their
(08:20):
hair as well. They're Catholic women, you know, Nuns cover
their hair. You know what I mean. This is not
something that's exclusive to one faith. But for some reason
in this country after nine to eleven, in particular, that
his job started to be associated with terrorism and anti
(08:42):
americanism and so forth and so on, and so the
folks that felt like this is America would see that
as a symbol of anti American hate, right, and so
it became a target. And we've heard over the years
people wearing hit jobs being attacked, their hard jobs being
snatched off at schools and places like this. And I
(09:05):
will say this out loud, and I know you feel
the same way. If I was ever to witness someone's
a job being torn off, like in my peripheral, that
is the sort of thing that would make me like
I might lose my life on a day like that,
because it's just I realized the amount of I realize
(09:26):
what goes into that, you know what I mean. That's
not a commitment to a culture as much as it
is a commitment to God. And I believe that the
bond between a human being and their faith is sacred.
I've been all over the world seen faith expressed through
every type of human being that they make. I've hiked
mountains to see people pray to statues of Buddha. I've
(09:46):
been in Muslim countries. I've been to the Grand Mosque
in Abu Dhabi. I've been to synagogues, I've been to temples.
I've been allowed to pray with seek people. You name
it again, My dad did right by us. You made
sure that we weren't afraid or prejudice.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
But I believe in attack on someone's faith, it's attack
on their hope, it's attack on their dreams and so forth. Right,
So this story stood out to me, and again we
really wanted to do it right. But enough time has
passed and enough of these stories have come about that
today is the right time. Now, I've said a lot
(10:27):
be gaming the picture. I feel like you got to
jump in here.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So you said that education and prejudice don't often share
the same space, and I want to push back a
little bit and say that intelligence and enlightenment. There we go,
I've been prejudiced don't often share the same spaces. We
see very highly educated people go to the Supreme Court
to shut down affirmative action, to shut down diversity, equity
(10:54):
and inclusion, and to shut down things like the Fearless Fund.
And those people are highly educated in law degree things
in that and our self. With enlightenment, empathy and intelligence,
prejudice typically ceases to exist. Education doesn't seem to mean
much with regards to that, because these leaders have attended
Harvard Law and gotten scholarly mentions and degrees and put
(11:18):
on all of robes and capes and all of these things,
and they still are blatantly prejudiced and racist and bigoted
and homophobic and xenophobic, and the list goes on and on. Yeah, no,
I definitely go with that empathy. The thing that is
(11:44):
done so effectively by those who very intentionally other people
is the removal of empathy because I'm not the one
being attacked, so that they really don't have nothing to
do with me. And they've done such a masterful job
(12:05):
of splintering us into people, I mean into pieces rather
not into people, so that we do not approach things
as members of the human race. We approach things as
black people, as tribes, we approach things as members of
the LGBTQ plus community. We approach things as women, we
(12:31):
approach things as Christian, we approach things as Muslim, separately
broken into these tribes. Because if we ever looked next
to one another and realized that we were all fighting
for the same thing. We would fight together, and we
would storm the streets of this country, probably daily, but
(12:51):
we'll storm it, you and I and our small group,
and all the other groups will look in, you know,
support from a distance or you know, obstruct us, but
definitely not join in because that's not their fight. Yeah,
And what we're seeing happen in this country, even today,
right now as we record this is everyone watching everyone
(13:13):
go through their own plight and just kind of watching
it happen. And you know, thoughts and prayers and wish
you the best. But this should be the most of
it should be one of the most offensive stories and
headlines in the news. But there's a mixture of so
(13:35):
many awful things happening and so many people kind of
not caring because it doesn't apply to them. You know,
people that would be grossly offended if someone removed their
yamaka from their head are not moved at all by
(13:56):
this story. They should be enraged. They should be enraged
because they know how they'd feel where the shoe. On
the other foot, it's not like they're not enlightened enough
to know, or not educated enough or not to know,
or not mature enough to know, they know exactly how
they'd feel if placed in that same position. So when
(14:19):
we don't storm the streets for one another, when we
don't stand up for one another, when we do not
platform one another, it's very, very discouraging because we should
be just as angry. I should be just as angry
by a Muslim woman having to deal with this as
I was when my son was kicked and called the
(14:40):
N word at school. I should be just as angry.
And if you find a way to make me just
not care enough right here, you got your own problems
to worry about, can't worry about those people's problems too.
You effectively isolated those people and remove the power of
empathy and solidarity with our fellow human beings. There are
(15:04):
so many ways that they masterfully divide us and force
us to not be there for one another. I told
a young lady yesterday who started a business recently, and
through conversation she ended up asking me what can we
do for each other? And she didn't mean me and her,
she meant people, And I said, continue to show up
for one another. That's the most It's not the money,
(15:28):
it's actually caring and showing up. You know, Ramsey and
I are working on something really important with regards to
allyship right now, and I hear people that don't like
the word allyship or the idea of it, and it's like,
there's something that you're missing. We cannot do this alone.
Whatever this is for whoever's listening, whatever that mission is
(15:48):
that you have, whatever that plight is that you're trying
to get over or get through, you cannot do it
by yourself. We cannot do it by ourselves. So stories
like this should inferior us. You should not have to
be a Muslim woman for this to I almost use
the bad way for this to make you upset. You
(16:09):
should just have to think about how you would feel
if your self determination was being torn off of you. Yes,
if your sense of self, if your sense of pride,
if your sense of love, if your sense of joy,
if your deity was being snatched away from you, how
would you feel? And if you are a person that's atheist,
(16:30):
you care about something, you care about someone. If you don't,
I'm not talking to you just to make that simple,
to make that plan. If you don't care about anything
or anyone, the message is not for you, but for
most of us that do care about something or someone.
Imagine that thing or that person being snatched away from you,
(16:50):
and imagine how that would make you feel. And that's
how you should feel. Every time you read a headline,
every time you hear or see a story where someone's
dignity and self determination and self worth and love and
heart is being torn away from them and they're being
denied their most basic rights, you should be infuriated, even
(17:11):
if it does not knock on your door.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I want to follow that up with the actual article
that we chose to base today's conversation on, but I
don't know how much it's going to add because I
think you said everything that we needed to hear. You
well said. This comes from the nation. The title is
Muslim women are having their hit jobs turn off by
police Oliver America. The influx of arrests of Muslim women
(17:40):
at pro Palestine protests highlights a critical flaw in the
criminal justice system. The hijob is an expression of a
Muslim woman's faith, symbolizing modesty, privacy, and agency over one's body,
and depriving a woman of that coverage can be humiliating
and traumatizing. That's one of the things I want everybody
listening to know. Some women have a clear First Amendment
(18:01):
right to keep their heads covered for religious purposes, including
in spaces where others might have to remove head coverings.
Reflecting this, the Bureau of Prisons allows for incarcerated Muslims
to keep their jobs on in federal prisons, and at
least seventeen states, including New York, specifically allow for religious
headcoverings to be worn throughout a prison. Yet there are
(18:21):
no federal laws that explicitly protect a woman's right to
keep on her job while being arrested in police custody
or in a temporary holding facility, either for a mugshot
or otherwise. The difficulty that Muslim women have experienced is
also reflective in the general vitual that Muslim women have
been facing in activism spaces. Even even before pro Palestine
(18:43):
solidarity encampment spread across American universities, many Muslim activists had
already been experiencing violations of their religious liberties. I'm going
to share this story because it's really important, and I
think it helps paint the picture and gives you some
human insight and to what this is like and for
those that are not Muslim, for those that don't have
(19:03):
these cultural elements that are so dear to you. Suffice
it to say that the belief in this is worth
dying for, and people have died for it. So it's
perhaps among the most significant of beliefs that a human
(19:26):
being can have. It's that important. I don't care how
much hatred you have. A human being deserves dignity. I
guess hatred and dignity, and how much you don't like somebody,
a human being deserves dignity, So I'll share. Jannan, a
twenty seven year old engineer from Maryland who requested to
keep her last name anonymous, was arrested in March while
protesting in front of the Israeli Nbascy in Washington, DC.
(19:48):
While in custody, Janan said she was ordered to take
off her job for a mugshot. Confused and uncomfortable, she
asked countless questions like who would be seeing the photos?
I don't even need to go on who asked that question?
Think about it? Who would ask a question like that?
(20:08):
Who's going to see these photos? Say for a person
where it's that important to them that their hair is covered.
Other questions do people normally resist here? In other words,
I'm not resisting. You have me, I'm in your custody.
I don't need to deny my God in this moment.
(20:30):
But Jannan eventually complied and took off her head covering
fearful that her resistance in the jail would impact the
outcome of her charges. Quote. I felt awful. I felt violated, confused, stunned, naked.
I felt the most important thing to me was taken away.
I'm worried about other women. There needs to be a
system in place if a Hijabi woman or if a
(20:53):
Muslim gets arrested, where do they pray? And again, for
those aren't who are intimately familiar with this faith, this
next question, this is a mouthful yeah, yes, yes, And
that's why I put it there. So you put these
women at an intersection of do you comply with God
(21:15):
or do you comply with the police? And if you don't,
if you don't know anything about the Muslim faith, you
do know something about faith in general. And there are people,
countless people, millions, maybe billions of people who have chosen
God throughout the existence of human beings over whatever else.
(21:37):
Faith is that strong belief in a better tomorrow for
yourself and your posterity. Is that strong A higher power,
a purpose is that strong. It's that powerful of a motivator.
Once upon a time, we had a Muslim man coming
here just to tag onto that where do they pray thing?
He came and prayed in our studio. He did his
(21:59):
episode with his name Resistance is Beautiful. Please look him
up on social media. Is a real one. Love that guy.
He had to take a moment to pray. For those
who don't know, Muslim people will pray five times a day.
And this studio never felt more blessed than that moment.
And we're not overly you know, religious folks here, that's
(22:19):
not what we are. But there's something very special and
very sacred about a person following their faith. And here
on this show, we wanted to bring your attention to
the fact that this is a thing that's happening to
our Muslim sisters, that they deserve your protection, they deserve
your voice, they deserve your support. And when and if
legislation makes its way to protect Hijabi women in the
(22:42):
same way that the Crown Act was passed and so
forth and so on, we need to show up for them,
because they deserve that, and anyone who chooses to exercise
their religious freedoms however they however, it's consistent with their faith,
so food for thought, bearing in mind,
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship empathy and understanding. I am
your host, Rams's job.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He is Ramsey's job. I am q Ward. You are
tuned into Civic siden, Yes you.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Are, and we got some stuff to talk about today,
so please stick around. Today. We are going to stand
in solidarity with our Muslim sisters, in particular because, as
it turns out, Muslim women are having their hit jobs
torn off by police all over America, and this is
(00:35):
something that we wanted to talk about and we really
wanted to have a Muslim woman on the show, but
it just hasn't timed out, and we wanted to make
sure that we got to the conversation while it was
still more or less in the news, so that you
could you find the articles and do whatever research you
wanted to do to supplement that. Also, we're going to
spend some time talking about Donald Trump, Joe Biden, their debate,
(01:02):
and the Supreme Court. So some housekeeping, some maintenance, some
catching up that we've had to do because we haven't
really been able to spend anytime in the past few
episodes discussing the goings on that are central to politics
in this country and exactly what is at stake, And
so we are going to again spend some time discussing.
(01:27):
Really we have to talk about the Supreme Court because
we are kind of in some unprecedented scary times. But
also we need to, you know, speak to the concerns
surrounding the two candidates and help each other because we're
still processing it as well, but help each other reconcile
what a path forward looks like. There will be a
(01:47):
path forward. We do have to make a decision as
a country, and we need to make sure that it's
the right one. So that and so much more to
stick around for here on Civic Cipher. But before we
get there, like we always do it, this time, let's
start off with excellence, shall we? I think you shall.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
This week's Ebony Excellence ironically sponsored by Actively black. There
is greatness in our DNA visit actively black dot com.
So I wanted to highlight actively black and their founder
Lannie Smith and congratulate them for providing the apparel and
uniforms for the Nigerian Olympic team. As the Olympics are
(02:26):
in a few weeks now. That's a really really big deal.
So Actively Black is a black owned entity created by
former professional basketball player, and that's NBA player Lannie Smith.
We saw avoidant representation, ownership, and investment back into our
communities from existing brands that have profited billions by utilizing
black talent, black culture, and black consumerism. This is a
(02:50):
brand designed by us for us the mission to uplift
and reinvest back into black into the Black community, and
to improve the mental health and physical fitness of our people.
We are not building an apparel brand. The clothes are
just the uniform for the movement. I love that everybody
is welcome to purchase where and support Actively Black, regardless
(03:11):
of race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion. As long as
you know and support the purpose and the mission to
uplift the Black community, you are welcome into our tribe.
And a quote from founder Lannie Smith, We're not asking
for a seat at the table anymore. We are building
our own table. I've had the opportunity to meet and
(03:35):
spend time with brother Lannie, and he's an incredible brother.
The brand is incredible. Please check out actively black dot
com and look for actively Black on the Nigerian national
team at this year's Olympics.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Real quick, I want to add something before we move
on that a lot of times non black people will
look at black stuff like it's not for them. Yes,
and that's rarely is that true? And I think actively
black is putting that on full display. So I love that. Okay.
So again, we wanted to cover this story a little
(04:14):
bit sooner because we had heard about these instances of
Muslim women at the protest on the college campuses in
support of Palestine being attacked on the campuses and specifically
having their hit jobs removed, and that is something that
(04:39):
was always very sensitive. It's a sensitive topic, you know.
To Q into me, we know people who are Muslim,
and then women in particular, we know how much discrimination
and fear comes with wearing that out in public, because
(05:01):
there are people who are looking for the easily identifiable
others in this country, as Q would say, and you know,
there's kind of like a wheel that keeps turning. For
a while. It'll be Black people for a while, It'll
be you know, Mexican people for a while. It'll be
Asian people for a while, It'll be folks from the
(05:23):
Middle East, Muslim people, et cetera. But you know, we
all noticed something around here in two thousand and one
because we were alive back then, but we noticed that,
you know, there was a shift in the country in
the way that the country approached Muslim people, and the
(05:47):
way the news covered Muslim people, and the way that
the jokes went back and forth on stage about Muslim people.
And somehow the faith known as Islam became associated with
terrorism and suicide bombings and all of these things that
(06:09):
that is not what the faith is about. Just a
little bit of background on me. I grew up Christian.
My father was a Christian minister, but my father had
his doctorate in theology, meaning that he had to study
all of the religions, not just Christianity. And one of
(06:30):
the things that I've said many times throughout my life
is that where education exists, prejudice cannot. And often enough,
that's the truth. Education and prejudice are like natural enemies
to each other. My father was not a prejudiced man
when it came to other faiths, certainly not Abrahamic religions
(06:53):
like Islam, like Judaism, because they are all born from
the same sort of root system and as a result
of that, we were not raised me, my brothers, my sisters.
We were not raised to regard Christianity as something that
is greater than or lesser than any other faith. Right.
(07:17):
And so once nine to eleven took place and people
who subscribed to Islam for their faith became under attack
and under this intense scrutiny, my heart was broken for them, right,
(07:39):
and I did my best to you know, stand in solidarity.
But you know, I was a kid at the time,
and you know, you just do what you can on
your college campus or whatever. You know, not certainly weren't
at a level we're at now, right. But I remember
talking to people who lived through that time, and you know,
again we have friends who lived through that time, and
(07:59):
they have told us how scary that was and how
they had to hide a piece of themselves and had
to you know, for safety and for fear. Right. And
I discovered how important he jobs are. It's not unlike
you know, for Jewish folks who wear yamakas or keep
us right. And there are Jewish women who cover their
(08:20):
hair as well. They're Catholic women, you know, Nuns cover
their hair. You know what I mean. This is not
something that's exclusive to one faith. But for some reason
in this country after nine to eleven, in particular, that
his job started to be associated with terrorism and anti
(08:42):
americanism and so forth and so on, and so the
folks that felt like this is America would see that
as a symbol of anti American hate, right, and so
it became a target. And we've heard over the years
people wearing hit jobs being attacked, their hard jobs being
snatched off at schools and places like this. And I
(09:05):
will say this out loud, and I know you feel
the same way. If I was ever to witness someone's
a job being torn off, like in my peripheral, that
is the sort of thing that would make me like
I might lose my life on a day like that,
because it's just I realized the amount of I realize
(09:26):
what goes into that, you know what I mean. That's
not a commitment to a culture as much as it
is a commitment to God. And I believe that the
bond between a human being and their faith is sacred.
I've been all over the world seen faith expressed through
every type of human being that they make. I've hiked
mountains to see people pray to statues of Buddha. I've
(09:46):
been in Muslim countries. I've been to the Grand Mosque
in Abu Dhabi. I've been to synagogues, I've been to temples.
I've been allowed to pray with seek people. You name
it again, My dad did right by us. You made
sure that we weren't afraid or prejudice.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
But I believe in attack on someone's faith, it's attack
on their hope, it's attack on their dreams and so forth. Right,
So this story stood out to me, and again we
really wanted to do it right. But enough time has
passed and enough of these stories have come about that
today is the right time. Now, I've said a lot
(10:27):
be gaming the picture. I feel like you got to
jump in here.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
So you said that education and prejudice don't often share
the same space, and I want to push back a
little bit and say that intelligence and enlightenment. There we go,
I've been prejudiced don't often share the same spaces. We
see very highly educated people go to the Supreme Court
to shut down affirmative action, to shut down diversity, equity
(10:54):
and inclusion, and to shut down things like the Fearless Fund.
And those people are highly educated in law degree things
in that and our self. With enlightenment, empathy and intelligence,
prejudice typically ceases to exist. Education doesn't seem to mean
much with regards to that, because these leaders have attended
Harvard Law and gotten scholarly mentions and degrees and put
(11:18):
on all of robes and capes and all of these things,
and they still are blatantly prejudiced and racist and bigoted
and homophobic and xenophobic, and the list goes on and on. Yeah, no,
I definitely go with that empathy. The thing that is
(11:44):
done so effectively by those who very intentionally other people
is the removal of empathy because I'm not the one
being attacked, so that they really don't have nothing to
do with me. And they've done such a masterful job
(12:05):
of splintering us into people, I mean into pieces rather
not into people, so that we do not approach things
as members of the human race. We approach things as
black people, as tribes, we approach things as members of
the LGBTQ plus community. We approach things as women, we
(12:31):
approach things as Christian, we approach things as Muslim, separately
broken into these tribes. Because if we ever looked next
to one another and realized that we were all fighting
for the same thing. We would fight together, and we
would storm the streets of this country, probably daily, but
(12:51):
we'll storm it, you and I and our small group,
and all the other groups will look in, you know,
support from a distance or you know, obstruct us, but
definitely not join in because that's not their fight. Yeah,
And what we're seeing happen in this country, even today,
right now as we record this is everyone watching everyone
(13:13):
go through their own plight and just kind of watching
it happen. And you know, thoughts and prayers and wish
you the best. But this should be the most of
it should be one of the most offensive stories and
headlines in the news. But there's a mixture of so
(13:35):
many awful things happening and so many people kind of
not caring because it doesn't apply to them. You know,
people that would be grossly offended if someone removed their
yamaka from their head are not moved at all by
(13:56):
this story. They should be enraged. They should be enraged
because they know how they'd feel where the shoe. On
the other foot, it's not like they're not enlightened enough
to know, or not educated enough or not to know,
or not mature enough to know, they know exactly how
they'd feel if placed in that same position. So when
(14:19):
we don't storm the streets for one another, when we
don't stand up for one another, when we do not
platform one another, it's very, very discouraging because we should
be just as angry. I should be just as angry
by a Muslim woman having to deal with this as
I was when my son was kicked and called the
(14:40):
N word at school. I should be just as angry.
And if you find a way to make me just
not care enough right here, you got your own problems
to worry about, can't worry about those people's problems too.
You effectively isolated those people and remove the power of
empathy and solidarity with our fellow human beings. There are
(15:04):
so many ways that they masterfully divide us and force
us to not be there for one another. I told
a young lady yesterday who started a business recently, and
through conversation she ended up asking me what can we
do for each other? And she didn't mean me and her,
she meant people, And I said, continue to show up
for one another. That's the most It's not the money,
(15:28):
it's actually caring and showing up. You know, Ramsey and
I are working on something really important with regards to
allyship right now, and I hear people that don't like
the word allyship or the idea of it, and it's like,
there's something that you're missing. We cannot do this alone.
Whatever this is for whoever's listening, whatever that mission is
(15:48):
that you have, whatever that plight is that you're trying
to get over or get through, you cannot do it
by yourself. We cannot do it by ourselves. So stories
like this should inferior us. You should not have to
be a Muslim woman for this to I almost use
the bad way for this to make you upset. You
(16:09):
should just have to think about how you would feel
if your self determination was being torn off of you. Yes,
if your sense of self, if your sense of pride,
if your sense of love, if your sense of joy,
if your deity was being snatched away from you, how
would you feel? And if you are a person that's atheist,
(16:30):
you care about something, you care about someone. If you don't,
I'm not talking to you just to make that simple,
to make that plan. If you don't care about anything
or anyone, the message is not for you, but for
most of us that do care about something or someone.
Imagine that thing or that person being snatched away from you,
(16:50):
and imagine how that would make you feel. And that's
how you should feel. Every time you read a headline,
every time you hear or see a story where someone's
dignity and self determination and self worth and love and
heart is being torn away from them and they're being
denied their most basic rights, you should be infuriated, even
(17:11):
if it does not knock on your door.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I want to follow that up with the actual article
that we chose to base today's conversation on, but I
don't know how much it's going to add because I
think you said everything that we needed to hear. You
well said. This comes from the nation. The title is
Muslim women are having their hit jobs turn off by
police Oliver America. The influx of arrests of Muslim women
(17:40):
at pro Palestine protests highlights a critical flaw in the
criminal justice system. The hijob is an expression of a
Muslim woman's faith, symbolizing modesty, privacy, and agency over one's body,
and depriving a woman of that coverage can be humiliating
and traumatizing. That's one of the things I want everybody
listening to know. Some women have a clear First Amendment
(18:01):
right to keep their heads covered for religious purposes, including
in spaces where others might have to remove head coverings.
Reflecting this, the Bureau of Prisons allows for incarcerated Muslims
to keep their jobs on in federal prisons, and at
least seventeen states, including New York, specifically allow for religious
headcoverings to be worn throughout a prison. Yet there are
(18:21):
no federal laws that explicitly protect a woman's right to
keep on her job while being arrested in police custody
or in a temporary holding facility, either for a mugshot
or otherwise. The difficulty that Muslim women have experienced is
also reflective in the general vitual that Muslim women have
been facing in activism spaces. Even even before pro Palestine
(18:43):
solidarity encampment spread across American universities, many Muslim activists had
already been experiencing violations of their religious liberties. I'm going
to share this story because it's really important, and I
think it helps paint the picture and gives you some
human insight and to what this is like and for
those that are not Muslim, for those that don't have
(19:03):
these cultural elements that are so dear to you. Suffice
it to say that the belief in this is worth
dying for, and people have died for it. So it's
perhaps among the most significant of beliefs that a human
(19:26):
being can have. It's that important. I don't care how
much hatred you have. A human being deserves dignity. I
guess hatred and dignity, and how much you don't like somebody,
a human being deserves dignity, So I'll share. Jannan, a
twenty seven year old engineer from Maryland who requested to
keep her last name anonymous, was arrested in March while
protesting in front of the Israeli Nbascy in Washington, DC.
(19:48):
While in custody, Janan said she was ordered to take
off her job for a mugshot. Confused and uncomfortable, she
asked countless questions like who would be seeing the photos?
I don't even need to go on who asked that question?
Think about it? Who would ask a question like that?
(20:08):
Who's going to see these photos? Say for a person
where it's that important to them that their hair is covered.
Other questions do people normally resist here? In other words,
I'm not resisting. You have me, I'm in your custody.
I don't need to deny my God in this moment.
(20:30):
But Jannan eventually complied and took off her head covering
fearful that her resistance in the jail would impact the
outcome of her charges. Quote. I felt awful. I felt violated, confused, stunned, naked.
I felt the most important thing to me was taken away.
I'm worried about other women. There needs to be a
system in place if a Hijabi woman or if a
(20:53):
Muslim gets arrested, where do they pray? And again, for
those aren't who are intimately familiar with this faith, this
next question, this is a mouthful yeah, yes, yes, And
that's why I put it there. So you put these
women at an intersection of do you comply with God
(21:15):
or do you comply with the police? And if you don't,
if you don't know anything about the Muslim faith, you
do know something about faith in general. And there are people,
countless people, millions, maybe billions of people who have chosen
God throughout the existence of human beings over whatever else.
(21:37):
Faith is that strong belief in a better tomorrow for
yourself and your posterity. Is that strong A higher power,
a purpose is that strong. It's that powerful of a motivator.
Once upon a time, we had a Muslim man coming
here just to tag onto that where do they pray thing?
He came and prayed in our studio. He did his
(21:59):
episode with his name Resistance is Beautiful. Please look him
up on social media. Is a real one. Love that guy.
He had to take a moment to pray. For those
who don't know, Muslim people will pray five times a day.
And this studio never felt more blessed than that moment.
And we're not overly you know, religious folks here, that's
(22:19):
not what we are. But there's something very special and
very sacred about a person following their faith. And here
on this show, we wanted to bring your attention to
the fact that this is a thing that's happening to
our Muslim sisters, that they deserve your protection, they deserve
your voice, they deserve your support. And when and if
legislation makes its way to protect Hijabi women in the
(22:42):
same way that the Crown Act was passed and so
forth and so on, we need to show up for them,
because they deserve that, and anyone who chooses to exercise
their religious freedoms however they however, it's consistent with their faith,
so food for thought, bearing in mind,
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