The first part of today’s episode has us talking with Isaac Hayes III about his social media app Fanbase. We discuss the merits of an alternative approach to social media for folks who use it for activism, the benefits of having safe spaces for shared dialogues, and how algorithms influence content and online behavior.
www.civiccipher.com
Follow us: @CivicCipher @iamqward @ramsesja
Consideration for today's show was provided by:
Major Threads menswear www.MajorThreads.com
Hip Hop Weekly Magazine www.hiphopweekly.com
The Black Information Network Daily Podcast www.binnews.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cider, a very
special episode where our mission is to foster allyship, empathy
and understanding.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm your host, Ramses job.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
He is Rams' job, I am q Ward. You are
tuned in the Civic songs.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
From Deed you are, And as I mentioned, it is
a special episode because let me let me back up
a bit. For those that know, we are interested in
social justice. We're interested in elevating black voices and amplifying
black voices. We're interested in cultivating safe spaces for black creators,
(00:40):
black minds, black culture, et cetera. Well, there is another
like minded individual among the tech giants in you know,
in the world right now, and he has decided to
descend from his throne on high and spend a little
bit of time with us here on Civic Cipher. He
(01:02):
goes by the name of Isaac Hayes, the third again,
the tech world giant, the social media thought leader, and
indeed the founder of the social media app fan base.
So welcome to the show, sir. We appreciate you spending
some time with us.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
What an amazing intro. I can't believe a tech giant.
I can't thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's a deserving intro man for real, thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I appreciate it. Man, I'm working hard. We're hard at
working fan base right now. I'm so happy to be here.
I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you guys and
talk to your audience and have a conversation about a
great many things.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, yeah, And we're really excited to get to that
because obviously social media. You know, we exist in a
broadcast space, but we cannot exist in the space without
social media. Social media shapes so much of our activism,
so much of the conversations that we have as individuals
and as a group of people, as a community.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And so again we're looking forward to that conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
But before we get there, like we always do it,
this time, we're going to start with some ebony excellent,
shall we?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I think we shall.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Today's ebny Excellence sponsored by Actively Black. There's greatness in
our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. This story comes
from ESPN. Unlike during her two previous heats at the
US Olympic Trials this weekend, when she exuberantly saluted the.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Crowd upon her introduction.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
She carry Richardson's one hundred meter women's final Saturday night
at Hayward Field began much differently. Hands on her hips,
she stared straight ahead, locked into focus. That ten point
seventy to one seconds later made her an Olympian for
the first time in her career. With that blistering time
the fastest in the world by a woman this year,
(02:43):
Richardson took gold in the event and punched her ticket
to Paris. There she will be joining training partners Melissa
Jefferson and Twinisha t t Terry, who placed second and
third respectively. After crossing the finish line, Richardson twenty four
jogged half the first turn of the track before dropping
to a knee, bending her head and allowing a few
moments of emotion to take over. She said my quote,
(03:07):
I'm definitely still confident, still my exciting, normal self, but
more so overwhelmed with just emotions of joy, Richardson said
of her post race celebration. Many of you might remember
in twenty twenty one, she Carrie was the number one
qualifier to represent the US at the Olympics, but she
had just lost her mother, and she medicated the way
(03:32):
that some would. In that case, she popped positive for THHC,
was suspended and was not allowed to compete as usual.
People like to say that we interject race into things,
but I just think it's important to point out that
a Russian athlete popped for a performance enhancing drug, which
marijuana is not, and was.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Still allowed to compete.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So we call out those hypocrisies when they happened, but
shout out to Sea Carie for representing us well, and
we're looking forward to seeing her on the podium in pairs.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Let's get to.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It, all right, So the man of the hour, Isaac's
the third. So you know, longtime listeners of the show
may be aware that you know, you've been on the
show with us before, but that was some time ago,
and honestly it was, you know, full disclosure, it was
(04:23):
some audio that we had from a separate conversation that
we've repurposed for Civic Cipher just because we were so
excited to be able to talk to you the first time. Anyway,
but you know, we have a lot more listeners now,
a lot of people have joined this journey known as
Civic Cipher. So for those folks, do us a favor
(04:44):
and talk a little bit about your background, and you know,
obviously your name is Isaacay's the third so that's a
great place to start. But you know, let's let's connect
you to fan base and what that is.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Well, first time, I'm a son of the legendary Isaac
cas singer, songwriter, producer, artist, icon global superstar keep going.
I was born in Memphis, Tennessee, but happened to be
raised right here in Atlanta, Georgia. I moved here when
(05:19):
I was three years old. I actually had my fourth
birthday party right here in Atlanta, Georgia, and I've been
here ever since. And that led me to following my
father's footsteps as a songwriter, producer and a voiceover artist
for about twenty plus years.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And I think I did pretty good. Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Think as a youngster, I was always interested in one
of two things. I always thought I was going to
make video games or make music, and so right around
twenty eighteen, I got this idea that I wanted to
build a social media platform, which sounds kind of crazy
because guy coming from the music business that really didn't
have any knowledge of the tech base.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Wanted to do something like that.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
So I took it upon myself to kind of educate
myself about tech all of twenty eighteen and wt of
building a platform called fan Base, self financed with my
own money. Spent about two hundred thousand dollars of my
own capital to build it, which was a lot of
money that I didn't have. But I am a career entrepreneur,
so I'm a risk taker. I wasn't afraid to do
(06:28):
it because I believe in what we were doing, and
so it worked.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Out pretty well.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
We were able to develop and build an MVP of
a next generation social media platform that combines the free
aspects of everything that exists on social media now but subscriptions,
which is something relatively new for most people, and I
kind of transitioned into being in a tech founder. So
I find myself in twenty twenty four the founder and
(06:54):
CEO of fan Base, a little departure from where I was,
but something that I feel like totally belongs to me,
and I'm in my own space and kind of created
my own lane. So I'm excited. I think these last
five years have been the most happy professionally of my
life because it's just been a challenge, but it's been
a lot of fun at the same time.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So not everyone as an early adopter like us.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I'm sure you know this firsthand and you probably get
asked this question, you know, during interviews and you know,
face to face, one on one conversations with people with
fan base is entering a space that some might consider
to be crowded already. You have your Twitters and your
Instagrams and your tiktoks and all of the other spaces
where people gather in the social media ecosystem. What are
(07:39):
some of the things that are what are some of
the things that differentiate fan base from some of these
legacy platforms.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Well, I think I'm going to start first by saying
I think that the big differentiator between I think every
social app is actually the generation that make the app relevant.
So there was a MySpace generation, and a Facebook generation,
and an Instagram generation, and a Snapchat generation, and a
TikTok generation, and I think that will continue to be
(08:08):
other generations of young people that use social media in
ways that are different from the previous generation or create
community that belongs specifically to themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right, So.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
The Facebook era, you know, face for the twenty years
old now, So if you are a twenty four year old,
you know, using Facebook right.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Out of college.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
You're forty four now, so now you might be a
parent with some kids, you might not be different. College
life was a lot different then, and so your children
are definitely not going to be looking at, you know,
coming to Facebook or coming to Instagram because it's oversaturated
with where you are. So I think the biggest differentiator
(08:51):
that I wanted to do with fan base to create
something for next generation of users. So not it's for
the planet to use, but young people set the trends
and set the tone for what everybody else is going
to be into because they're the ones that are ahead
of the curb. They are the early adapters for that.
And then I think we've gotten to this point in
(09:11):
social media where everything is so congested and controlled and
manipulated through algorithms and advertising that really prevent people from
just being able to be themselves without some sort of limitation,
without some sort of requirement or how many followers do
you have or how much watch time do you have?
Or you know all these things, and so I wanted
to make something immediately that people could jump on express themselves,
(09:35):
feel like they weren't limited and what they were able
to create and do, and then add monetization on top
of this free foundation platform that people really don't understand
that subscriptions are something that I think are becoming part
more and more part of the conversation for younger people.
It's paying for content because we've been used to giving
(09:56):
content away for free for the last twenty years that
we really understand it. There's an economic value to that
because it's creating engagement, which allows these platforms to make
money up advertising. So you know, something that's next generation,
something that is limitless for people that want to use it,
and something that's monetized. And so those are the differentiators
I think from fan base and every other platform.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So one of the things that I discovered or learned
just kind of by following your social media because this
is going to be a while before I get to
the question, but it's worth it, is that there's a
lot more behind the scenes. You know, I followed your
social media for some time, a lot of like again,
thought leaders, people that are great orators and are really
(10:44):
tapped into the culture. There's a lot more that goes
on behind the scenes when it comes to social media
things that you know, a person like me who's was
always sort of a casual participant with respect to social media,
would not be aware of you know, I bought My
background is in broadcasting, so I've always had a significant
enough platform that social media just kind of felt.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Like a, you.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Know, a secondary element, and now, of course it very
much feels like a primary element.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So one of the things that I learned is that
you know, algorithms shape shape, shape outcomes, not followers, not
you know, all these things that we're accustomed to using
as metrics for our social media, they don't matter as
much as engagement. And engagement is kind of fueled or
(11:35):
generated by algorithms.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So that once upon a time caused us to pivot
with our social media because when we started Civic Cipher,
of course, we had our own personal pages where we'd
put up pictures of ourselves and our kids and that
sort of stuff. Having a platform such as Civic Cipher
where we're sharing articles and so for there's a different
(12:01):
way to engage with the algorithm. Right, So we decided
that we would play that game. Because again, this needs
to exist alongside our radio show, alongside the podcast, alongside
in person events. It's so forth right, it's an entire
marketing mix. Well, it turns out that even those algorithms
aren't aren't free from human influence, right, And so if
(12:27):
we post something that agitates the powers that be at
one of the legacy platforms that we've discussed that you mention,
we can find ourselves with a strike which feels like
kind of childish, you know, like three strikes in your out,
or like we get a slap on the wrist, like
we're behaving badly. Yeah, or we could see our content.
(12:52):
It's called shadow band. I'm sure you're familiar, more familiar
with that sort of thing than we are, where your
engagement is artificially oppressed by the platform, and the normal
amount of people that you would share your content with
are no longer able to see it, and so forth. Right, So,
you were discussing all of these different things to suggest
that fan base was largely free of these.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Sorts of.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Influences, artificial and external influences, and that content creators would
be more directly engaged with their audiences via fan base.
In other words, it's a great place for people who
are the activist types, people who really want to see
change in the world, people that have to share content
(13:41):
that some folks might find troubling, disturbing, et cetera. Fan
base is a great place to either move your content
or move your followers over to so that you can
really help get the word out about what it is
you're doing, what it is you're fighting for. So do
me a favor talk a little bit about well, first off,
do I have that right? And then second of all,
(14:02):
talk about why that's important at fan base where other
places are not doing that.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, yeah, you absolutely have it right.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I think social media was a lot different If I
would use a platform, let's say like Instagram from twenty
ten to twenty fourteen, it was very different from what
it became before advertising came into play. Once advertising gets involved,
there are requirements that the company has to have to
make sure that they're making money right, and so therefore
(14:31):
reach is one of those things that changes. Meaning, if
you were able to reach a million people before platforms
started running ads, you're not going to be able to
reach a million people now because you are now just
as popular or powerful as that as the app itself.
And they can't have that because how are they going
to make money if you can reach the same amount
(14:52):
of people that the app can reach and advertisers would
just come and strike deals with you, and that deals
with the app to make money. So therefore or they
have to slice your content down and some pressure content. Also,
advertisers control the nature and the texture and the.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Tone of what goes on on social media.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
So if there are very controversial topics or things that
are sensitive in nature that advertisers don't want their money
being spent running next to or be a part of.
I think the platforms are going to be a lot
more loyal to the advertisers who pay the bills and
the users of the platform who have a message to convey. Yeah,
that's fair lives matter, you know, if it is LGBTQ movement,
(15:35):
it is movements over in the Middle East. I think
that that advertisers have a lot more influence over the
type of information that gets distributed because they're the ones
keeping the lights on over the platform and those platforms
willing to stay in favor to continue to have an
advertising relationship. So that's absolutely true. For US, fan base
was never designed to run ads. It doesn't mean that
(15:58):
advertising isn't something that that we would ever consider doing,
but it's definitely something that is not first nature of
what we're doing and the reason why we build the platform,
because if I build a platform that is built on advertising,
then I have to repeat the same behavior at Facebook
and Instagram and acting all these the platforms do, which
(16:18):
is suppress your content, which I don't want to do.
I want a future where people can reach millions and
millions of people with their content and get their message
out there without fear of being shadow bands suppressed or
having their accounts taken down. And that's very disruptive, and
I think that makes a lot of people uneasy and
a lot of people don't like that, which is actually
(16:38):
a good thing and tech. If you're bring someone off,
you're doing the right thing. And so I want to
be disruptive in that fashion because there's nothing that's going
to stop it. I think that people just really want
to find ways that they can monetize and control that.
And I'm not here to try to control people. I'm
here to try to kind of take the reins off
of what people have in social media experiences that they're
(17:00):
I think even let them have a free the ability
to connect with people in a way that they've never
had before.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
The last time we spoke, we talked about community versus celebrity. Yeah,
and I think you know full disclosure, Ramsen and I
are investors in fan Base, but we're also users of
the platform. And I noticed something recently, and this is
kind of a left turn from prior conversations that we've had,
but this is something that caught my attention and I
(17:30):
can't keep thinking about it without asking you about it.
I always joined the audio rooms because I think it's
very cool that fan Base always sends me a notification,
especially if you're in an audio room, I always jump
in it. When you talk about the community and this
generation of contrarianism. Well, however, you say that that we
(17:52):
are in right now, I notice people in the chat
in the rooms kind of not kind of speaking negatively
about the app, speaking negatively about the experience and trying
to discourage people from.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Using the app in the app, and.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I was not just caught off guard by it, but
kind of confused by the idea that someone would come
to the platform to discourage people from being on the platform.
Is it hard for you as the founder and creator
to not take things like that personally when you're present,
or is that just something that comes with it?
Speaker 4 (18:27):
And doesn't really bug you that much. No, it doesn't.
The reason is because I think that the power of
choice is so like, well, when it's the fabric of
what it means to the human we are binary people
and we have to have the ability to make one
decision or another. And it's actually a really great defense mechanism.
(18:48):
I say this all the time. I was like, if
everybody decided that, you know, to walk one direction, where
everybody might fall off a cliff, and we all went,
we all died. But if half the people are like,
I don't think we should go that way, I want
to go this way. I want to I want to,
you know, go another direction, then half the population is spared.
(19:10):
So the fact that we disagree is necessary for our existences.
It creates individuality, it creates conflict, it creates change. And
so even with people that come on the platform that
may have something negative to say about fan base, they're
there right. And I think that conflict is a is
(19:33):
a key component of engagement on social media. There's these
these four pillars of engagement that I I've come up
with that I think are very very critical, which our attention, information, entertainment,
and conflict and conflict is so such a necessary part
of being human, and even in small ways where we
can disagree about like who your favorite sports team is
(19:55):
or who the better who's winning between Drake and Kendrick.
That's that's still conflict, but it's it's not global World
War three conflict, but there's still a level of conflict
that gives people the identity to side. I'm team Kendrick
or I'm team Drake, or I'm a Celtics fan, or
I'm a Mavericks fan.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And so.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I like fan base or I don't like fan base.
And I think that all that is relatively important, and
some people just have to be conchariont.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You just have to.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's like, for every person that loves iPhone, there's got
to be a person that loves Android. So somebody's got
to be somebody's got to be against it. It just
comes with it. I think that's always going to be
far for the course, and so I definitely don't take
issue with that because that's just expected. That's what I've
learned to understand that people are always going to disagree
with you, and in some instances it makes for great engagement.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Sure, Sure, and you know what, one of the things
that I've learned too, is that people will often, like
when Elon Musk, you know, first took over Twitter, there
were a lot of people that aired out their agrievances
on Twitter. So that's kind of part of the course.
I think you're absolutely right. And then obviously Instagram has
(21:07):
gone through its changes over the years, Facebook, every every
single even MySpace, and there are people complaining on the platform,
Oh I don't like this, I don't like that, and
so that just kind of comes with the territory. One
of the things that I feel, though, is a little
bit more special with fan Base. I know fan Base
(21:29):
is an app for all content creators, not just black
content creators, but it certainly does feel like there's an
added layer of protection just kind of built into the
framework of the company that kind of secures the boundaries
(21:52):
of black culture. Maybe other cultures too, but you know,
I only know black culture. So give me about thirty
seconds talk about that, whether or not that was intentional,
and what the benefits that could be.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Well, I understood the effect that black culture has on
social media, and I wanted to make something because a
lot of times our cultures misrepresented or misunderstood, are exploited
in a way that is harmful to are negative to
the culture creators, the young people that make the content
and created. So I wanted to make sure that even
though fan base is a global platform, they understand that
(22:24):
the person that has built this platform and is overseeing
the growth and the function of this platform, it's someone
that is just like them, so they don't have to
worry about those particular things. And we see those things
happen all the time, the way certain creators get treated
on social media and platforms like TikTok and get disrespected
with racism on other platforms even like x and so
(22:45):
there is a care and consideration there that someone that
looks like you or understands you is also there, so
that even though fan bases for everybody, there won't be
this attack on black culture or this exploits the relationship
between black culture and social media.
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cider, a very
special episode where our mission is to foster allyship, empathy
and understanding.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm your host, Ramses job.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
He is Rams' job, I am q Ward. You are
tuned in the Civic songs.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
From Deed you are, And as I mentioned, it is
a special episode because let me let me back up
a bit. For those that know, we are interested in
social justice. We're interested in elevating black voices and amplifying
black voices. We're interested in cultivating safe spaces for black creators,
(00:40):
black minds, black culture, et cetera. Well, there is another
like minded individual among the tech giants in you know,
in the world right now, and he has decided to
descend from his throne on high and spend a little
bit of time with us here on Civic Cipher. He
(01:02):
goes by the name of Isaac Hayes, the third again,
the tech world giant, the social media thought leader, and
indeed the founder of the social media app fan base.
So welcome to the show, sir. We appreciate you spending
some time with us.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
What an amazing intro. I can't believe a tech giant.
I can't thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
That's a deserving intro man for real, thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:25):
I appreciate it. Man, I'm working hard. We're hard at
working fan base right now. I'm so happy to be here.
I appreciate the opportunity to talk with you guys and
talk to your audience and have a conversation about a
great many things.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Yeah, yeah, And we're really excited to get to that
because obviously social media. You know, we exist in a
broadcast space, but we cannot exist in the space without
social media. Social media shapes so much of our activism,
so much of the conversations that we have as individuals
and as a group of people, as a community.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
And so again we're looking forward to that conversation.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
But before we get there, like we always do it,
this time, we're going to start with some ebony excellent,
shall we?
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I think we shall.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Today's ebny Excellence sponsored by Actively Black. There's greatness in
our DNA. Visit actively black dot com. This story comes
from ESPN. Unlike during her two previous heats at the
US Olympic Trials this weekend, when she exuberantly saluted the.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Crowd upon her introduction.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
She carry Richardson's one hundred meter women's final Saturday night
at Hayward Field began much differently. Hands on her hips,
she stared straight ahead, locked into focus. That ten point
seventy to one seconds later made her an Olympian for
the first time in her career. With that blistering time
the fastest in the world by a woman this year,
(02:43):
Richardson took gold in the event and punched her ticket
to Paris. There she will be joining training partners Melissa
Jefferson and Twinisha t t Terry, who placed second and
third respectively. After crossing the finish line, Richardson twenty four
jogged half the first turn of the track before dropping
to a knee, bending her head and allowing a few
moments of emotion to take over. She said my quote,
(03:07):
I'm definitely still confident, still my exciting, normal self, but
more so overwhelmed with just emotions of joy, Richardson said
of her post race celebration. Many of you might remember
in twenty twenty one, she Carrie was the number one
qualifier to represent the US at the Olympics, but she
had just lost her mother, and she medicated the way
(03:32):
that some would. In that case, she popped positive for THHC,
was suspended and was not allowed to compete as usual.
People like to say that we interject race into things,
but I just think it's important to point out that
a Russian athlete popped for a performance enhancing drug, which
marijuana is not, and was.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Still allowed to compete.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
So we call out those hypocrisies when they happened, but
shout out to Sea Carie for representing us well, and
we're looking forward to seeing her on the podium in pairs.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
Let's get to.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
It, all right, So the man of the hour, Isaac's
the third. So you know, longtime listeners of the show
may be aware that you know, you've been on the
show with us before, but that was some time ago,
and honestly it was, you know, full disclosure, it was
(04:23):
some audio that we had from a separate conversation that
we've repurposed for Civic Cipher just because we were so
excited to be able to talk to you the first time. Anyway,
but you know, we have a lot more listeners now,
a lot of people have joined this journey known as
Civic Cipher. So for those folks, do us a favor
(04:44):
and talk a little bit about your background, and you know,
obviously your name is Isaacay's the third so that's a
great place to start. But you know, let's let's connect
you to fan base and what that is.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Well, first time, I'm a son of the legendary Isaac
cas singer, songwriter, producer, artist, icon global superstar keep going.
I was born in Memphis, Tennessee, but happened to be
raised right here in Atlanta, Georgia. I moved here when
(05:19):
I was three years old. I actually had my fourth
birthday party right here in Atlanta, Georgia, and I've been
here ever since. And that led me to following my
father's footsteps as a songwriter, producer and a voiceover artist
for about twenty plus years.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
And I think I did pretty good. Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Think as a youngster, I was always interested in one
of two things. I always thought I was going to
make video games or make music, and so right around
twenty eighteen, I got this idea that I wanted to
build a social media platform, which sounds kind of crazy
because guy coming from the music business that really didn't
have any knowledge of the tech base.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Wanted to do something like that.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
So I took it upon myself to kind of educate
myself about tech all of twenty eighteen and wt of
building a platform called fan Base, self financed with my
own money. Spent about two hundred thousand dollars of my
own capital to build it, which was a lot of
money that I didn't have. But I am a career entrepreneur,
so I'm a risk taker. I wasn't afraid to do
(06:28):
it because I believe in what we were doing, and
so it worked.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Out pretty well.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
We were able to develop and build an MVP of
a next generation social media platform that combines the free
aspects of everything that exists on social media now but subscriptions,
which is something relatively new for most people, and I
kind of transitioned into being in a tech founder. So
I find myself in twenty twenty four the founder and
(06:54):
CEO of fan Base, a little departure from where I was,
but something that I feel like totally belongs to me,
and I'm in my own space and kind of created
my own lane. So I'm excited. I think these last
five years have been the most happy professionally of my
life because it's just been a challenge, but it's been
a lot of fun at the same time.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
So not everyone as an early adopter like us.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I'm sure you know this firsthand and you probably get
asked this question, you know, during interviews and you know,
face to face, one on one conversations with people with
fan base is entering a space that some might consider
to be crowded already. You have your Twitters and your
Instagrams and your tiktoks and all of the other spaces
where people gather in the social media ecosystem. What are
(07:39):
some of the things that are what are some of
the things that differentiate fan base from some of these
legacy platforms.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Well, I think I'm going to start first by saying
I think that the big differentiator between I think every
social app is actually the generation that make the app relevant.
So there was a MySpace generation, and a Facebook generation,
and an Instagram generation, and a Snapchat generation, and a
TikTok generation, and I think that will continue to be
(08:08):
other generations of young people that use social media in
ways that are different from the previous generation or create
community that belongs specifically to themselves.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Right, So.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
The Facebook era, you know, face for the twenty years
old now, So if you are a twenty four year old,
you know, using Facebook right.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Out of college.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
You're forty four now, so now you might be a
parent with some kids, you might not be different. College
life was a lot different then, and so your children
are definitely not going to be looking at, you know,
coming to Facebook or coming to Instagram because it's oversaturated
with where you are. So I think the biggest differentiator
(08:51):
that I wanted to do with fan base to create
something for next generation of users. So not it's for
the planet to use, but young people set the trends
and set the tone for what everybody else is going
to be into because they're the ones that are ahead
of the curb. They are the early adapters for that.
And then I think we've gotten to this point in
(09:11):
social media where everything is so congested and controlled and
manipulated through algorithms and advertising that really prevent people from
just being able to be themselves without some sort of limitation,
without some sort of requirement or how many followers do
you have or how much watch time do you have?
Or you know all these things, and so I wanted
to make something immediately that people could jump on express themselves,
(09:35):
feel like they weren't limited and what they were able
to create and do, and then add monetization on top
of this free foundation platform that people really don't understand
that subscriptions are something that I think are becoming part
more and more part of the conversation for younger people.
It's paying for content because we've been used to giving
(09:56):
content away for free for the last twenty years that
we really understand it. There's an economic value to that
because it's creating engagement, which allows these platforms to make
money up advertising. So you know, something that's next generation,
something that is limitless for people that want to use it,
and something that's monetized. And so those are the differentiators
I think from fan base and every other platform.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So one of the things that I discovered or learned
just kind of by following your social media because this
is going to be a while before I get to
the question, but it's worth it, is that there's a
lot more behind the scenes. You know, I followed your
social media for some time, a lot of like again,
thought leaders, people that are great orators and are really
(10:44):
tapped into the culture. There's a lot more that goes
on behind the scenes when it comes to social media
things that you know, a person like me who's was
always sort of a casual participant with respect to social media,
would not be aware of you know, I bought My
background is in broadcasting, so I've always had a significant
enough platform that social media just kind of felt.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Like a, you.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Know, a secondary element, and now, of course it very
much feels like a primary element.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So one of the things that I learned is that
you know, algorithms shape shape, shape outcomes, not followers, not
you know, all these things that we're accustomed to using
as metrics for our social media, they don't matter as
much as engagement. And engagement is kind of fueled or
(11:35):
generated by algorithms.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
So that once upon a time caused us to pivot
with our social media because when we started Civic Cipher,
of course, we had our own personal pages where we'd
put up pictures of ourselves and our kids and that
sort of stuff. Having a platform such as Civic Cipher
where we're sharing articles and so for there's a different
(12:01):
way to engage with the algorithm. Right, So we decided
that we would play that game. Because again, this needs
to exist alongside our radio show, alongside the podcast, alongside
in person events. It's so forth right, it's an entire
marketing mix. Well, it turns out that even those algorithms
aren't aren't free from human influence, right, And so if
(12:27):
we post something that agitates the powers that be at
one of the legacy platforms that we've discussed that you mention,
we can find ourselves with a strike which feels like
kind of childish, you know, like three strikes in your out,
or like we get a slap on the wrist, like
we're behaving badly. Yeah, or we could see our content.
(12:52):
It's called shadow band. I'm sure you're familiar, more familiar
with that sort of thing than we are, where your
engagement is artificially oppressed by the platform, and the normal
amount of people that you would share your content with
are no longer able to see it, and so forth. Right, So,
you were discussing all of these different things to suggest
that fan base was largely free of these.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Sorts of.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Influences, artificial and external influences, and that content creators would
be more directly engaged with their audiences via fan base.
In other words, it's a great place for people who
are the activist types, people who really want to see
change in the world, people that have to share content
(13:41):
that some folks might find troubling, disturbing, et cetera. Fan
base is a great place to either move your content
or move your followers over to so that you can
really help get the word out about what it is
you're doing, what it is you're fighting for. So do
me a favor talk a little bit about well, first off,
do I have that right? And then second of all,
(14:02):
talk about why that's important at fan base where other
places are not doing that.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Well, yeah, you absolutely have it right.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
I think social media was a lot different If I
would use a platform, let's say like Instagram from twenty
ten to twenty fourteen, it was very different from what
it became before advertising came into play. Once advertising gets involved,
there are requirements that the company has to have to
make sure that they're making money right, and so therefore
(14:31):
reach is one of those things that changes. Meaning, if
you were able to reach a million people before platforms
started running ads, you're not going to be able to
reach a million people now because you are now just
as popular or powerful as that as the app itself.
And they can't have that because how are they going
to make money if you can reach the same amount
(14:52):
of people that the app can reach and advertisers would
just come and strike deals with you, and that deals
with the app to make money. So therefore or they
have to slice your content down and some pressure content. Also,
advertisers control the nature and the texture and the.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Tone of what goes on on social media.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
So if there are very controversial topics or things that
are sensitive in nature that advertisers don't want their money
being spent running next to or be a part of.
I think the platforms are going to be a lot
more loyal to the advertisers who pay the bills and
the users of the platform who have a message to convey. Yeah,
that's fair lives matter, you know, if it is LGBTQ movement,
(15:35):
it is movements over in the Middle East. I think
that that advertisers have a lot more influence over the
type of information that gets distributed because they're the ones
keeping the lights on over the platform and those platforms
willing to stay in favor to continue to have an
advertising relationship. So that's absolutely true. For US, fan base
was never designed to run ads. It doesn't mean that
(15:58):
advertising isn't something that that we would ever consider doing,
but it's definitely something that is not first nature of
what we're doing and the reason why we build the platform,
because if I build a platform that is built on advertising,
then I have to repeat the same behavior at Facebook
and Instagram and acting all these the platforms do, which
(16:18):
is suppress your content, which I don't want to do.
I want a future where people can reach millions and
millions of people with their content and get their message
out there without fear of being shadow bands suppressed or
having their accounts taken down. And that's very disruptive, and
I think that makes a lot of people uneasy and
a lot of people don't like that, which is actually
(16:38):
a good thing and tech. If you're bring someone off,
you're doing the right thing. And so I want to
be disruptive in that fashion because there's nothing that's going
to stop it. I think that people just really want
to find ways that they can monetize and control that.
And I'm not here to try to control people. I'm
here to try to kind of take the reins off
of what people have in social media experiences that they're
(17:00):
I think even let them have a free the ability
to connect with people in a way that they've never
had before.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
The last time we spoke, we talked about community versus celebrity. Yeah,
and I think you know full disclosure, Ramsen and I
are investors in fan Base, but we're also users of
the platform. And I noticed something recently, and this is
kind of a left turn from prior conversations that we've had,
but this is something that caught my attention and I
(17:30):
can't keep thinking about it without asking you about it.
I always joined the audio rooms because I think it's
very cool that fan Base always sends me a notification,
especially if you're in an audio room, I always jump
in it. When you talk about the community and this
generation of contrarianism. Well, however, you say that that we
(17:52):
are in right now, I notice people in the chat
in the rooms kind of not kind of speaking negatively
about the app, speaking negatively about the experience and trying
to discourage people from.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Using the app in the app, and.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
I was not just caught off guard by it, but
kind of confused by the idea that someone would come
to the platform to discourage people from being on the platform.
Is it hard for you as the founder and creator
to not take things like that personally when you're present,
or is that just something that comes with it?
Speaker 4 (18:27):
And doesn't really bug you that much. No, it doesn't.
The reason is because I think that the power of
choice is so like, well, when it's the fabric of
what it means to the human we are binary people
and we have to have the ability to make one
decision or another. And it's actually a really great defense mechanism.
(18:48):
I say this all the time. I was like, if
everybody decided that, you know, to walk one direction, where
everybody might fall off a cliff, and we all went,
we all died. But if half the people are like,
I don't think we should go that way, I want
to go this way. I want to I want to,
you know, go another direction, then half the population is spared.
(19:10):
So the fact that we disagree is necessary for our existences.
It creates individuality, it creates conflict, it creates change. And
so even with people that come on the platform that
may have something negative to say about fan base, they're
there right. And I think that conflict is a is
(19:33):
a key component of engagement on social media. There's these
these four pillars of engagement that I I've come up
with that I think are very very critical, which our attention, information, entertainment,
and conflict and conflict is so such a necessary part
of being human, and even in small ways where we
can disagree about like who your favorite sports team is
(19:55):
or who the better who's winning between Drake and Kendrick.
That's that's still conflict, but it's it's not global World
War three conflict, but there's still a level of conflict
that gives people the identity to side. I'm team Kendrick
or I'm team Drake, or I'm a Celtics fan, or
I'm a Mavericks fan.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
And so.
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I like fan base or I don't like fan base.
And I think that all that is relatively important, and
some people just have to be conchariont.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
You just have to.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
It's like, for every person that loves iPhone, there's got
to be a person that loves Android. So somebody's got
to be somebody's got to be against it. It just
comes with it. I think that's always going to be
far for the course, and so I definitely don't take
issue with that because that's just expected. That's what I've
learned to understand that people are always going to disagree
with you, and in some instances it makes for great engagement.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Sure, Sure, and you know what, one of the things
that I've learned too, is that people will often, like
when Elon Musk, you know, first took over Twitter, there
were a lot of people that aired out their agrievances
on Twitter. So that's kind of part of the course.
I think you're absolutely right. And then obviously Instagram has
(21:07):
gone through its changes over the years, Facebook, every every
single even MySpace, and there are people complaining on the platform,
Oh I don't like this, I don't like that, and
so that just kind of comes with the territory. One
of the things that I feel, though, is a little
bit more special with fan Base. I know fan Base
(21:29):
is an app for all content creators, not just black
content creators, but it certainly does feel like there's an
added layer of protection just kind of built into the
framework of the company that kind of secures the boundaries
(21:52):
of black culture. Maybe other cultures too, but you know,
I only know black culture. So give me about thirty
seconds talk about that, whether or not that was intentional,
and what the benefits that could be.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Well, I understood the effect that black culture has on
social media, and I wanted to make something because a
lot of times our cultures misrepresented or misunderstood, are exploited
in a way that is harmful to are negative to
the culture creators, the young people that make the content
and created. So I wanted to make sure that even
though fan base is a global platform, they understand that
(22:24):
the person that has built this platform and is overseeing
the growth and the function of this platform, it's someone
that is just like them, so they don't have to
worry about those particular things. And we see those things
happen all the time, the way certain creators get treated
on social media and platforms like TikTok and get disrespected
with racism on other platforms even like x and so
(22:45):
there is a care and consideration there that someone that
looks like you or understands you is also there, so
that even though fan bases for everybody, there won't be
this attack on black culture or this exploits the relationship
between black culture and social media.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Missed in History Class
Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.