In Reunited, Awards Insider hosts a conversation between two Oscar contenders who have collaborated on a previous project. Today, we speak with Hugh Jackman, star of The Son, and Darren Aronofsky, director of The Whale. They previously worked together on 2006’s The Fountain.

After many years of trying, Darren Aronofsky’s The Fountain was all but dead until the writer-director met Hugh Jackman backstage after one of his Broadway performances of The Boy From Oz. Though the 2006 romantic drama, in which Jackman and Rachel Weisz play three different sets of characters bound by love across time, met a mixed reception, it would become a special memory for both of them—and one of their most discussed films with fans. The long collaboration process of the film also allowed the pair to form a deep bond, and a desire to work together again.

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It hasn’t happened yet (Aronofsky almost directed The Wolverine, but stepped out of the project due to personal and production issues), but when we get them together for a Reunited call, both are happy to reflect on their current films and how they tie together—beyond being tear-jerking dramas. The Son and The Whale both deal with the strained relationships between a father and his 17-year-old child. In The Son, Jackman plays a father who is attempting to work with his ex-wife (Laura Dern) in helping their troubled son overcome his depression. In The Whale, Aronofsky tells the tale of an obese man (Brendan Fraser) riddled with grief who is attempting to reconnect with his daughter after many years. 

For Jackman, the connection between the two films runs deep. “What I got out of The Whale was this profound sense of loneliness that we have, of how difficult it is to really meet,” he says during a Zoom call with Aronofsky. “All these barriers come in the way of just meeting, of just being with this other human being.” Here, Jackman and Aronofsky reflect on The Fountain’s lasting impact, the pitfalls of movie marketing, and how they’ve changed since they first met.

Vanity Fair: These two movies are real tearjerkers. Are you criers when you watch movies?

Hugh Jackman: I'm not a crier. Are you a crier at movies, Darren?

Darren Aronofsky: I love to cry when they do that to me. Absolutely. They're rare. I love the feeling of it. Such an amazing thing. I mean, I think people go to the movies for three reasons, to laugh, cry, or get scared.

Jackman: The first time I saw my dad cry was a movie that I remember, E.T. — later in his life. It was like it became a joke. It was daily. It was every dinner.

Aronofsky: My dad as well. It's interesting when it happens, huh?

Let’s go back to when you first met. Do you remember where and when that was?

Jackman: I seem to remember it was backstage at the Imperial Theater, and I was a little in shock. I don't know why Darren came back. I was doing The Boy From Oz in 2003. I remember you saying you see absolutely everything. And of course, I'd seen your movies up to that point, and I was just like, I wouldn't have picked you for a "I see every musical." I think you told me you literally see everything musical-wise. 

Aronofsky: I grew up on musicals.

Jackman: We had a lovely chat and you were very complimentary, and it meant a lot to me because I was such a huge fan. You said, "I think I have something I'd like you to read." 

Aronofsky: I had never met Hugh. I think I went into it not knowing what to expect. Of course, I had seen Hugh in the X-Men films. But I went in a non-believer. Then I saw the musical, and I was a complete believer because this character was so different, yet they both were just unbelievably convincing. The level of talent was just overflowing. So between the time of the show ending and going backstage and meeting him, I was going through my head going, "Wow, it might be possible for him to play Tommy in The Fountain," which was a project I had been dreaming about making for many years. I remember saying, "What do you want to do?" Because I could see that he could do anything you want. He said something like, "I want to do whatever you're doing," or something really nice. Then I was like, "I'll send you something to read right away." Normally when you send something to someone, it normally takes a very long time for them to read it. Within a day, he read and was like, "I'm in. 

Jackman: I actually read it that night after the show, and I thought, "Don't start reading. There's no way you're going to finish." Because normally, I'm not one of those people who stays up all night. I never go out after the show and I'm often asleep an hour after I get offstage. I started reading, and I read the entire thing. I remember going, "Okay, my brain is not getting all of this, but my gut is completely getting this." I think I emailed you the next morning.

Aronofsky: It was an amazing gift that you gave me because you breathed life into something I really deeply believed in that I had been struggling to make for all these years. Because he had to play a neurosurgeon, we went to see some actual neurosurgery happening. And there's a bunch of tubes and pipes sticking out of this guy's brain. And the doctor turns to Hugh, and he is like, "You want take over for a second?" And he was like, "What?" You remember that?

Jackman: Totally remember that. It's so moving because with brain surgery, they have to keep the patient awake. Their scalp is off, the lid is open. 

How did The Fountain affect your career trajectories from that point?

Jackman: It was a real turning point for me as an actor. I think maybe from the theater, the idea of working with a director on something is important to me. And you don't always get that in film. Sometimes it's very removed, actually. And we spent all that time before, not only getting to know each other, it felt like we were going into battle together. And I have had, and still have, an immense trust and honesty with Darren about everything, to the point where Darren would often be right next to the camera while we were shooting. It made me realize how much I want and rely on strength, vision, collaborators, people to help guide me that I can trust. And the experience confirmed to me that was the way I should go. 

Aronofsky: Well, for me, it's a long journey that's still ongoing. I think there's a deep love for that film that I haven't gotten from anything else and that it keeps coming. When my dad was going through one of his rounds of cancer, we were up at Sloan Kettering, and we were in the waiting room. And there was a guy about my age, probably a bit younger than me, who's in a wheelchair, and he had two teenage girls and his wife was there. And he recognized me, and he said, "Are you Darren?" I said, "Yes." He basically said that The Fountain helped him figure out his life and his death. He got all emotional. And it was interesting for my parents who never really quite got that one. They got really choked up. So the impact of it in that way is so meaningful for me, that it really has touched a lot of people that have gone through loss.

Jackman: I. When people stop me, it's the most passionate response of any movie I've done. The ones who get it, have to tell me, and they have to tell me fully what it meant to them. 

The two of you almost worked together again on The Wolverine, though it didn’t end up happening in the end. 

Aronofsky: I would work with Hugh on anything if it aligned. That was a really tricky one, with the tsunami and just all the timing and the complexity of life. We haven't been blessed with time on set together, but we keep talking about it. We keep getting really damn close, and it will happen again. I have faith in that.

With both your current films, audiences benefit from not knowing that much going in. It feels like The Whale’s marketing has purposely done that, in a way. How much do you consider that aspect of how a movie is released?

Aronofsky: I think what was really important to my editor, and he kept reminding me, is how much humor and how much hope is in the film, which is very, very surprising for a Darren Aronofsky movie. So I just want people to know they're going to have a good time. A24 is really good at what they do. And I've learned over the years to get out of the way when you're working with masters, and so I like so far what they've been doing. We did cut a longer trailer, which we hopefully will release at some point. But then at some point, we put this teaser out, and it just made sense because it captured a lot of the energy of the film. Personally, one of the worst things in the world is when you watch a trailer and it gives away so much of a movie. I've noticed over the last few years as trailers have gotten almost desperate to get people in, where you're really seeing everything, and even a lot of the greatest moments because that's how much they feel they have to sell it.

Jackman: That is a pet peeve of mine. But the other pet peeve of mine is when a trailer is trying to pretend the movie is something it's not in order to attract an audience that they worry they won't get if you say it's something else. And I think certainly with The Son, it’s how to get people interested in the story, indicate that there's a cautionary tale aspect — which I think for this is important — and hopefully not giving too much away so that the conversations that spark from it are real.

Aronofsky: It's definitely important for The Son, and it's a huge challenge for these studios to figure out how to sell these things. But I think that's the best part of film is when people say to me, "Oh, I didn't know what to expect and it was just so this or that.” And that's been great. I've always liked that. I want people to be surprised in the theater.

Both The Fountain and The Whale took a very long time to get made. So, are you just the most patient man in the business, Darren?

Aronofsky: I'm kind of impatient, but what I do is I keep myself busy with lots of different projects. But for me, the projects that remain interesting over the years — that keep pulling me back and getting my attention — are the good ones that eventually I'll go make. I think that it's some way a test to see how good they are.

Jackman: Have you had any drop out that still break your heart?

Aronofsky: There are the ones that dropped out for me emotionally, but still had really interesting DNA. So we just made The Good Nurse this year, which came out great [Aronofsky, previously attached to direct, was a producer on the film]. And Tobias Lindholm came on and did a great job with it. But at a certain point, I couldn't figure out a way for myself. There was times on the making of The Whale when I nearly dropped out too. George Clooney almost did a version of it, and Tom Ford was interested, but then they didn't gel either. And so eventually, it became the right time for me to work on that material. It's strange how they all work out.

Hugh, have you had projects that were the ones that got away?

Jackman: Not in the same way. There's a few that went away beyond my control, timing, someone else got it, that I still am not able to watch. So I'm clearly like a jilted lover. But it's a slightly different, quicker process as an actor than it is for a director.

How are you most significantly different now than when you made The Fountain?

Aronofsky: Definitely, my hair is different, and Hugh's isn't. [Laughs]. What else? There's always stuff that's shifting, but I do think the work is the same. I think you get up, and you have the same challenges that you had back then. But really, the job seems to be the same, always for me. I only have done it since The Fountain with this type of passion five times. Hugh probably might have a different answer because he's done 50, 60, maybe a hundred times. I'm still sort of just getting started. How do you feel about that, Hugh? 

Jackman: I feel more-

Aronofsky: Probably more relaxed, no?

Jackman: Yeah, more relaxed. Actually in some ways, when I think of us working together, I think, "Oh, I am really look forward to that." I'm more able to let go, to not try and control the scene or have a preconceived idea of where it would go. Although my experience with you was, you blew a lot of that away. I very much remember one day, we were shooting in the bubble, and I was exhausted. And I remember we called cut. I was crying, and then I had to walk off into the corner. I couldn't stop crying. Then they called lunch and I was sitting in the corner of the studio for 10 minutes, still crying. I was laying on the ground, and I was like, "Thank God that is done." And there was a knock on the door from second ADs going, "Okay, we're going to pick up, we're going to have another go at that one." I was just like, "I got nothing. I don't know. I got nothing." You said, "Let's just see what happens with that." I've learned from that. I'm more relaxed for sure, and more trusting in my instincts as well than I was.

Aronofsky: The spirit that Hugh brought to the set every day was so positive, and there are a lot of people that over complicate things in ways that don't need to be done. I think that's a big reason that I've wanted to work with Hugh—it's great when fun friends come together and collaborate and push each other to do better and better work.

I look forward to the next collaboration.

Aronofsky: It's going to happen.

Jackman: It's going to happen.