Nissan is offering what seems to me to be a no-brainer lease deal.  Based on my current fuel consumption and with all the rebates they are offering I estimate that my cost over the life of the lease will only be 10 cents per mile!  But do you like the Leaf?  Wat are the pluses and minuses?

I am not sure but I did stay at a Holiday Inn once?

The leaf needs hi test gas, you still are using fossil fuel by electric plug in, buy it because you like driving it not for the Eco friendliness

Where  are you going to 'plug it in'?

Most local repair shops are not equipped to repair any battery or charging issues, the dealer will get their money from you in repair costs

It's range does not make it practical if you have a long commute or want to go to LA for the weekend

My office has several charging stations, all free and rarely used.  I have a 20 mile commute each way which right now uses a gallon of gas each way, so I am expecting to save about $10 per day in gas, and I get free electric juice.  No more oil changes, no more transmission fluid, no more spark plugs!

We test drove one yesterday, rides like any other small car, very similar to a Prius.  I plan on using this for my commute and running errands, not joy riding!!!

If that's all you intend on using it for it seems practical. But anything longer then 300 miles you need to wait 8-9 hours for a complete recharge

Or rent another car

I'm a boring middle-ager, lost my interest in Corvettes and 300Zs a decade ago!  I'll be happy to putter along in the slow lane, but the prospect of getting a great deal on a new car AND laughing all the way past the gas stations is strangely appealing to me :)

I don't knock it. If its what you want with your driving experience I'm all for it. Just make sure you know that fact. My parents live 3 hours away and I have friends in LA. It wouldn't suit my needs. They did a test on the "Top Gear" if you want more info.

Thanks N O.  I hear what you are saying.  I will be keeping my current gas guzzlers for road-trips.

My parents got one last year and they love it. It suits their needs perfectly since my mother works 2 miles away from home and then my dad runs errands (mostly grocery shopping & gym) all over town in the evenings. They still have their other car for longer trips so the limited range (no gas backup) isn't an issue. The best thing about it is no longer feeling guilty for going to the store for one thing and wasting gas... because it only cost a few cents of electricity! I don't know about all the rebates, carpool sticker, etc. but it is so awesome to not have to stop at the pump and watch the ticker drain your wallet. The only negative my dad has found is that (in his opinion) the sun shade visor is too short and doesn't provide adequate protection from getting sun in your eyes. But this is literally the only shortcoming he has mentioned and talks the car up to anyone who listens!

Thanks so much for the input Sunny!  With the Leaf I won't ever need an oil change or tune up!  With all the rebates and factoring in my savings I figure my cost over the life of the lease will work out to 10 cents/mile!  I should take delivery this week, not sure what color I will get...

Ethan "The Canny One" Z. says:
Thanks so much for the input Sunny!  With the Leaf I won't ever need an oil change or tune up!  

_____

WTF do you think drives the wheels?

An electric motor, duh.  A motor that needs maintenance, has internal lubricants, and wears down.  A drivetrain that wears down.  A unique, awkward, transverse differential that wears down.  

Independent mechanics won't touch these.  Nissan dealership mechanics have no initial experience with these.

This is the real world, not driving fantasy camp.    ("Spark plugs"?  They cost a fraction of a penny per hundred miles.  Seriously?)

Look at the Northeast right now.  Your Leaf would be stranded somewhere, with no electrical plug-in.  You would have been forced to abandon it to the waters had you driven it into town.  (This is Earthquake country.  Or hadn't you thought of that?)

And you BRAG about keeping multiple gas guzzlers.  If instead you replaced one of them with a modern 30-40MPG car, problem solved.

Instead, you are the perfect target stooge for buying a single-purpose (home-work-home only) electric car.  As a THIRD vehicle.  In the region with the highest electric rates in North America.   GENIUS!  No wonder you're Elite!

^ Sunny,  Sounds like your Dad think just like me, BTW!

Rick
your argument is so flawed in so many ways it is hard to know where to begin.
an electric motor does not have any where near the wear and tear of an internal combusion engine.    Tthere is no ignition timing , cam shaft, and valves, cooling system is way less intense because the electric motor is way more efficient (thus less heat requiring cooling)  so electric vehicles are less complex which means less maintenance.  

look at the northeast right now?  we are not in the northeast ...we are in CA...pretty mild temp

and if your main driving (as with most people) is from home to work then you are not a stooge, you will save money in the long run and have less of an impact on the environment.

and just while we are at it, here is the best article I have read compaing energy wise electric vehicles to ICE.

salon.com/2008/08/25/ele…

^ G "Thread Killa"  TY For the article link.  I can pick up my Leaf on Thursday!  Can't wait to plug it in to the FREE RAPID CHARGE STATION at my office!  I also get a FREE home charging kit, installed, but I hope to never use it since I prefer FREE ELECTRICITY at work!

I have my choice of colors, am thinking Red or Black.....

^Troy

When I see Hummers on the road I think that if they really want to drive one of these they should join the Army.

Good call Ethan I think its a no brainer in your situation. Don't listen to the naysayers because our next wave of transportation is going to be electric, it is the only tech that makes logical sense, and as we're seeing with each new model of EVs they are creating ways to regenerate energy as the vehicle drives down the street making them more and more cost effective and energy efficient.

Uuuh but Hummers are based on the Chevy Colorado / GMC Canyon chassis.

They're basically mid / small sized pick-up truck / SUV's.

I am greener than green, and I can't explain that but I am. I *GET* that you can't buy yourself to a healthy planet, or consume your way to sustainability.  For example, an old car built with cheaper resources that is already built is greener than a new car built with today's expensive resources, and more polluting power cell battery parts etc.  If you want the Leaf as a statement, it's fine.  But it's a rip off of a car, as are all hybrids.  Why would anyone buy something that is hybrid and get 25 mpg while traditional car engines still get 35mph.  Anyone buying a Prius simply doesn't do research, or doesn't care, or it's a status symbol. But anyone wanting to be green wouldn't buy one.

As for the Leaf, I found this while researching. We have a 2 door Yaris, and it's $10K and amazing.

Not a good deal:

yelp.com/topic/san-franc…

I'm just wanting to share with you guys my success with a 2 door Toyota Yaris Hatchback.

Basically with a light foot on the pedal, slightly overinflated tires, I'm getting around 50 mpg on the highway, 42 in the city.

I paid $15,000 for the car.

Comparing this to vehicles such as the Nissan Leaf which is fully electric, the numbers work out pretty amazingly with today's gas prices.

Nissan leaf base price is going to be $34,000
Toyota Yaris base price is $15,000

Nissan leaf never needs gas, and as crazy as this may sound, for the sake of argument, I'm going to say that the leaf gets "free gas" and will not compute the cost of the electricity.

Basically with simple math, the Leaf is $19,000 more than the Yaris in base price.  

On average, at $3.85 a gallon in Dallas, TX prices, this means that I can fill up my Yaris, 493 times on the BASE PRICE difference.

On average, I get nearly 365 miles per tank on the Yaris.    This means I can travel about 170,000 to 180,000 miles  BEFORE I even add up the cost of the base price difference on the Nissan Leaf.   If I have a heavier foot, 150,000 miles.

Considering that many Hybrids need new driving battery packs, and probably the Nissan Leaf would need a new battery pack by 150k-180k miles that costs thousands, it is hard to imagine just on ECONOMIC REASONS ever paying the price difference for a hybrid.   Also factor in depreciation and it just does not make any economic sense.   Also the Leaf has a 50-60 mile range with accessories.

Also of course like I said, there are many KWh that will go into charging the leaf that will jack up your power bill.   Plug in hybrids are somewhat of the same monster financially.  A converted Prius hybrid will have battery packs, KWh's, and has a 40k base price after conversion.  When all is said and done, a Prius hybrid will get 65mpg.

Nobody get me wrong, if the base price was cheaper on either a full electric or a hybrid, I'd be right there.  But at nearly 50mpg (highway no accessories and slightly overinflated tires) in my Yaris, with such a cheap bast

^ Rory - Thanks, it does seem to be an amazing deal.  This will be the first time I have leased a vehicle too.  Seem to make sense; with technology changing so fast i don't want to be stuck holding 3rd gen technology in four years!

^ Noe, yes but the concept is to have a psuedo military vehicle with which you can intimidate other drivers.  They get 12mpg so every round-trip to the store can be pretty fuelish!  Don't get me wrong, I am not a tree hugger, just very pragmatic!

............ with such a cheap base price and awesome reliability, it is hard for me to convert to alternative transportation.

Hopefully people here have some much cheaper solutions & less power - consumption - etc.  In my area I'd probably be ran over with an ebike.   Motorcycles are death traps around here too.

I'm still not sure why the manufacturer rates the Yaris so low in MPG.  It does WAY better than they are claiming.  I wonder if its so they can sell more hybrids?
---------------------

the above wasn't mine... it's linked to in that thread I linked.

I just don't get why people are so quick to rush to untested technology that could be worse than our existing tech. I know we all want to change the world and make a difference, but buying something will never be part of the solution. Not ever.  

The Leaf is better than a hybrid, and it's a legitimate move forward. But it's basically, if you don't care about your pocketbook, it's basically a surcharge of about $20,000 to try and help save the planet.  Which I am *ALL* for.  But you can't buy your way to a healthy planet, again, so this stuff is way comlex...

^ Uncle Fishbits - I agree 100% with everything in your post - That is why I am LEASING the Leaf.  

1) 39 month lease
2) no money down
3) 15k miles per year allowed
4) $289+ tax per month lease payment
5) CA Gives me a check for $2,500 for signing the lease
6) I save $200/month in gas

A pragmatic person wouldn't necessarily buy a new technology that hasn't been vetted very well, that has a number of serious drawbacks.  The idea of being a pioneer sounds lovely, but pioneers were all shot in the back with arrows.

I love the last gen Yaris hatch... It reminds me of bullet bill from nintendo.

And yeah Ethan. I guess ? The H3 was a huge joke.

But there are other SUVs with far worse mpg.

Holy wow Ethan. That's actually great. I hadn't seen the numbers.  

How much do you currently spend on gas? That's a bunch of savings just within your monthly lease payment... Wow.  That lease payment could be offset pretty decently.

The only thing... your phone or ipod is low, and you need to charge it but you need to go.  I usually just leave my phone or ipod when that happens, because I need to go.  I cannot imagine what it would be like with a power outage, or if something happens to a breaker at the office, etc.  I am sure it would seldom happen, but that one or two times you needed juice and couldn't get it would freak me out.  I would feel so captive to an idealogy that is failing me. LOL

those numbers are awesome tho Ethan.

H3 was a piece of crap thrown on top of a suburban frame.  What a horrid car.

It wasn't on a suburban frame.

It's actually a lot smaller than a suburban.

^ Fishbits

The numbers were flashing in my head just from the gas savings, then when he clarified that I also get $2,500 cash on top I grabbed the pen and signed on!

My current car gets 25 mpg on avg, at $4/gal and 15k miles/year that works out to $2,400 in fuel savings per year.

Noe... I'm thinking of H2 then. Pardon! =)

Wild Ethan.  You immediately start pocketing gas money, because the lease payment is really offset with the CA $$ & gas savings. Wild. Well played.

Thanks Uncle!  All the rebates make this a scream.  Plus I get to use the HOV lanes!

Also, what if you buy a cigarette lighter power plug charger, and plug your car into it.  You'll have endless energy forever. lol

^
why he doth cracked it....perpetual motion...we are saved

Uncle Fishbits Aeneas "My reviews are even more better" X. says:
Also, what if you buy a cigarette lighter power plug charger, and plug your car into it.  You'll have endless energy forever. lol
+++

Haha 8)

Totes gonna recycle that.

The cigarette lighter bit reminded me that I missed something in my list:

1) 39 month lease
2) no money down
3) 15k miles per year allowed
4) $289+ tax per month lease payment
5) CA Gives me a check for $2,500 for signing the lease
6) I save $200/month in gas
7) MY OFFICE BUILDING HAS 6 FREE CHARGING STATIONS!!!

Recycling is good for the environment as well.

And yes, Fishbits just solved the entire world's energy problems. You are WELCOME. lol

Ethan "The Canny One" Z. says:

My current car gets 25 mpg on avg,

....

yesterday, it got only 20 mpg.  you've improved it by 25% in one day!  I'd say you're better off if you keep working on improving the current car!

Ethan "The Canny One" Z. says:
^ Uncle Fishbits - I agree 100% with everything in your post - That is why I am LEASING the Leaf.  

1) 39 month lease
3) 15k miles per year allowed
6) I save $200/month in gas

____

are you Barbie?  Because "math is hard" for you.

your numbers only work if you:
1) drive EXACTLY the full 15,000/year and not a mile over
2) gas continues to cost $4/gallon (I paid $3.79 today.  It was under $2 when Obama was elected.)
3) you pay NOTHING for electricity at home
4) all 6 of your charging stations never fail AND there are never 6 other vehicles parked there.  (think carefully what you do the first morning you drive up to find them all occupied... and bear in mind that there is no law that keeps non-electric vehicles from parking there regardless. I see non-electrics parked in those spaces at Fry's all the time... including cops)
5) the landlord never decides to charge for the charging stations.
6) his company never moves, or moves his job
7) he loses his job

Meanwhile, he's paying a net $250/month for this EXTRA, 3RD vehicle...  and CA taxpayers are stuck with paying $2500 for his playtoy.  GENIUS!

^ Dave

I have two gas powered cars, one gets 20 (V8) the other 25 (V6)

I am a Leaf owner, and the car is amazing.  I highly recommend it, but I also recommend getting solar power installed on your home as well to generate the energy needed to charge the Leaf each day.  

The car is fast, quiet, comfortable and pays for itself in gas, insurance savings & using the HOV lane.

There is no transmission, oil changes or smog check needed, as the car is like a large golf cart. Maintenance is replacing the tires & brakes, and maybe the AC coolant.

Leasing makes the most sense because battery technology is changing so fast that in 3 years the range should be more than 200 miles. If you want more range, the Tesla @ $75k gets 300 miles. I checked out that car and it could be the best American car ever produced.

By combining solar power and the Leaf together I have eliminated my gasoline and electricity bills.  How is everyone not doing this?

^ Mr Opinion

The Teslas sure are sweet!  That $75k is a bit steep though.....  Leasing for now does make the most sense to me, for the reasons you mentioned.

The roof on my has has a lot of angles and does not have enough southern exposure - I looked into this with Solar City.  Too bad for me!

There are a lot of people out there who are just slow and slow to change (like one guy who has been making obnoxious posts on this thread), which is a part of the acceptance problem.

Maureen, my slow comment was referring to one person in particular who has been making rude posts.  It certainly is a matter of different strokes.

Rick B Says
2) gas continues to cost $4/gallon (I paid $3.79 today.  It was under $2 when Obama was elected.)
----------------------------------------------------
It was $2.00  when Bush was elected, when he finished it was it was $3.96

but the fact is the actions of the POTUS have very little affect on oil prices...that is dictated by the all mighty free market.

Rick B. Says
you pay NOTHING for electricity at home
================================
$ 2.50 to fully charge a Nissan Leaf and that will get you about 80 miles if you drive conservatively....teh equvalent cost with a gas powered car would be assuming 25 mpg $12.8

kind of a big difference if you ask me

Rick B. Says.

all 6 of your charging stations never fail AND there are never 6 other vehicles parked there.  (think carefully what you do the first morning you drive up to find them all occupied... and bear in mind that there is no law that keeps non-electric vehicles from parking there regardless. I see non-electrics parked in those spaces at Fry's all the time... including cops)
5) the landlord never decides to charge for the charging stations.
6) his company never moves, or moves his job
=========================================
wow full of suppositions.....grasping ...and sort of bitter
7) he loses his job

Damn, Maureen, I wanted the Sonata or Optima but couldn't afford it.

__

R "Mr Opinion" D. says:
The car is fast, quiet, comfortable and pays for itself in gas, insurance savings & using the HOV lane.

______

Well, that's the REAL story, isn't it?  Free access to the HOV lane for wealthy SOLO drivers.   You're missing the whole point of the High Occupancy Vehicle lane, though -- REMOVING vehicles from the road.  But, what do you care?  You get all the privilege with none of the responsibility.

And by "insurance savings", by all means quote us your figures vs your exemplar vehicle.  There's no logical reason why it should cost less to insure, given that collision damage repairs are far GREATER than for comparable IC vehicles.

^
bitter

FYI I started this thread in order to get feedback on the Leaf from people who drive one.  It is too bad a troll has decided to use the thread to let off his own bitterness and anger at whatever.

After doing my own analysis and after deciding that I could indeed use an extra vehicle I have concluded that For ME, the lease deal makes sense.  What really makes it attractive for me is the presence of the charging stations in my parking garage.  I'll post photos of my shiny new black Leaf when I pick it up this weekend!

It's just Rick B...AKA Al D...he's a bitter ass crank

I'm going to try to go to a Nissan dealership this weekend

Ethan, You and Mr Opinion should join the EAA...they have a killer monthly periodical they put out detailing what is new with electric vehicles, battery technolgy and charging station information.

electricauto.org

pikeresearch.com/webinar…

this may interest some of you... a webinar:

The electric vehicle market faces a chicken-and-egg dilemma.  For plug-in electric vehicles (PEVs) to reach their market potential, a robust network of electric vehicle charging stations is needed; but for investments in charging stations to make sense, a critical mass of EVs must be on the roads.  While governments have played a major role in the initial deployment of charging stations to date, the private sector faces many uncertainties in developing profitable business models for operating charging networks.

I hope I wasn't being rude, but if it's Rick, some of those points are valid.  I do agree it's a bit marxist to allow those who can afford to solo in carpool to do so, while normal humans just sit in traffic trying to get to the job that doesn't pay enough to buy a hybrid or electric.  haha.

I definitely think that webinar will explain some of my conservatism about adopting new tech, but the info in the thread has been stellar! Thanks.

Bits
There is also an internal fued with pure electric owners and plug in hybrids.  Pure electric owners feel they should be a higher priority than PHEVs at the charging station.    In some cases it has gotten so nasty where people have unplugged a PHEV while charging and used it to charge their vehicle.

To all you electric car haters out there: "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-- Arthur Schopenhauer

Cool discussion (minus Rick)!  

^ Fishbits and Che - I admit to being one of the selfish people Che refers to, though I try not to be to big of an a-hole!  Frankly, I dislike the HOV lanes except for when I qualify to be in it!  

^ Thread Killa, that's wild about the PHEV vs PE feud!  I will check out the EAA.

Also read a book titled Bottled lightning: Super Batteries, Electrc Cars.

Ver detailed and interesting about the lithium battery development

Wow I am glad I've been busy seems to have been some yelp idioTsyncracies joining the thread... my 2 cents is yes since GW was elected gas was 2.00 now its around 4.00 this was most definitely fueled by the POTUS. Lest we forget how many armored vehicles  tanks and planes were ordered to circle the desert and shoot anything that moves. That probably had zero effect eh?(Snarkasm)

Ok Rory
You know more than these guys
nytimes.com/2012/04/01/b…

G "the Thread Killa" L. says:
2) gas continues to cost $4/gallon (I paid $3.79 today.  It was under $2 when Obama was elected.)
----------------------------------
It was $2.00  when Bush was elected, when he finished it was it was $3.96

______

as I wrote, math is really hard for some people.

money.cnn.com/2008/11/26…

$1.86, not $3.96.   Your phony quote was over 100% too high.    Again, these types rely heavily on phony numbers.

Jason "Wimpy" T. says:
To all you electric car haters out there: "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

______

that's essentially what the Nazis were saying in the late 1930s, too.

Ethan "The Canny One" Z. says:
FYI I started this thread in order to get feedback on the Leaf from people who drive one.

______

That was your stated phony agenda...  it stopped working when you later let it slip that you had already driven and ordered the Leaf the day BEFORE your OP.   Oops!

^ Rory

I think Troll Rick brought up the $2 to $4 in order to imply that Pres Obama did something bad to drive up the gas price.  The President addressed this in the 3rd debate when he correctly pointed out that early in his term gas prices had fallen BECAUSE OF THE RECESSION REDUCING DEMAND.  Now that we are in a recovery (albeit slow) gas prices have shot back up.  Higher gas is the price to pay for economic recovery!

Ethan "The Canny One" Z. says:
^ Rory

I think Troll Rick brought up the $2 to $4 in order to imply that Pres Obama did something bad to drive up the gas price.

______

Man, you can't read for shit.  I quoted that to point out that your numbers were phony, assuming $4/gallon indefinitely and basing all of your resulting phony savings computations on that phony number.   Try recomputing with a real number, like a ten-year average.

Nobody cares if you are intellectually dishonest with yourself or just your own money, but when you bring it here and try to mislead the general public, that's where phony numbers get challenged.

============================== ==
$ 2.50 to fully charge a Nissan Leaf and that will get you about 80 miles if you drive conservatively....teh equvalent cost with a gas powered car would be assuming 25 mpg $12.8
-----------
Ok so let's say gas drops  down to $2 a gallon, then given the above scenario it would cost $6.40to go 80 miles and $2.50 for an EV

No way gas is going to $2.50.  It took the Great Recession (which my main man Barack rescued us from, BTW!) to drag gas prices down.

The recent spike to $5 really got me going towards an EV!  I think in 2 years $5 will be the new average.  I will really be loving my Leaf then!

^ if he really BELIEVED that for a second, he'd be an idiot to not buy oil/gas futures.  I'm guessing that he won't.  Again, it's all about lording it over the peons he passes by via the carpool lane.

I'm investing in gas companies and looking forward to driving an EV one of these days its called having cake and eating it too. Even if we do stabilize the price of gas and reduce our consumption it will be after our lifetime before you can get every single generator, weed eater, tractor, tank, fighter jet in the world switched over to an alternative renewable source of energy. Even if the tech was available there will still be people living like its 100 yrs ago and they will be consuming gas.

Also GL I never said the POTUS controls the price I said our 10 year campaign in the desert has been influencing our gas price since GW entered. So if thats true then the POTUS,chief commander, can be held responsible for fueling the spike in prices. Would you disagree?

It's never either / or.  You can have Facebook and Twitter, you can have Yelp and Tripadvisor, you can have solar and coal, you can have conventional and electric.

It's not either or.

It's harmony in the synch of many things having value at the same time.

Just picked up my Leaf!  Great so far, very complex vehicle though.  I posted a couple photos of it on the review link (yeah, I already Yelped the dealer).

yelp.com/biz/hanlees-hil…