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Intelligence Report: Iran halted Weapons Program in 2003

in News & Politics

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  1. Tsada K.
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    Amazing that this information was available in August.  However, Bush claims he didn't know until last week and that's why he's been crying "World War III" for the past 6 months.  Hmmm...

    Even Fox News crawled up his ass about this during the press conference today.

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  2. Tsada K.
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    cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12…

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  7. Tsada K.
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    'And Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, told the same forum that Bush "continues to not let facts get in the way of his ideology."'


    Too true.

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  10. Kevin H.
    • 117 friends
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    I like the Mr. Bush's position of "Well, unlike Iraq, we're now admitting to having the RIGHT intelligence...but I'm just so certain  they're about to start a nuclear program ANY DAY NOW."  (That's a SLIGHT paraphrase.)  

    Yeah, ya know what?  You can be sure that I (yeah, me...Kevin H.) am also about to start my OWN nuclear program...but that doesn't make it certain that I will...or that I should be bullied based on someone else's speculation!

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  12. Tsada K.
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    Let's ask ourselves which is worse:

    If he is lying and actually knew about this.

    If he is telling the truth and didn't know about this while the information was readily available to him.

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  13. Kevin H.
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    Taking BETS on how long it'll take before this thread flagged despite largely informed, and thought provoking dialogue.

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  16. Kevin H.
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    I watched the press conference today, and Mr. Bush did NOT withdraw from his position on Iran in ANY sense.  If anything, he reinforced it with, like I said, completely unfounded speculation.  There's a WORLD of difference between "keeping an eye out", and "being on the verge of invasion".

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  22. Tsada K.
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    5 minutes ago BernaDiva La Glam .. says:

    Well, Tsada, according to NPR this morning, Bush says that because Iran was never willing to admit they had an arms program to begin with, he doesn't believe them when they say they've halted it.  I sort of understand that in a general sense, but coming from Bush, I think he's just using that as an excuse for his idiocy and poor decision making skills.
    --------------------

    Yes, Berna.  I can understand that to a certain extent, but the fact is that he was continuing to make inflamatory, fear-mongering statements like "World War III" even though, at the very least, doubt had been cast.

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  23. Tsada K.
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    2 minutes ago J-M R. says:

    Tsada, timely Avatar change, as usual!!
    ---------------

    But of course!

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  27. Tsada K.
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    1 minute ago J-M R. says:

    To temper all the bush-bashing, I still think he comes off better than Chavez, Putin, and Achmadinnerplate put together! I mean, what those guys say sometimes!
    ------------

    That's like saying Weekend At Bernie's is an okay film when you compare it to Ishtar.

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  28. Kevin H.
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    "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator." - GWB, December 18, 2000

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  33. David D.

    Who's selling them all the centrifuges?

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  38. Tsada K.
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    1 minute ago J-M R. says:

    Joe G. says:

    Tsada K. says:

    1 minute ago J-M R. says:

    To temper all the bush-bashing, I still think he comes off better than Chavez, Putin, and Achmadinnerplate put together! I mean, what those guys say sometimes!
    ------------

    That's like saying Weekend At Bernie's is an okay film when you compare it to Ishtar.
    ---------

    Or like saying Soulplane is a good movie when compared to well uh Soulplane.

    -----------

    can I please have one more analogy? I am still not clear :-)
    -----------------------------------------

    It's like saying 2girls 1cup isn't that yucky when you compare it to 2girls 1finger.

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  39. Tsada K.
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    STOP GETTING MY THREAD FLAGGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  40. Kevin H.
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    Mike Z. says:

    Is that for real?
    ___________

    Sure is!  transcripts.cnn.com/TRAN…

    Or a crappy cut of the live video here:  youtube.com/watch?v=uvUE…

    And he said virtually the same thing here:  youtube.com/watch?v=A09H…

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  41. Kevin H.
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    It's not your threads that people don't like, Tsada.  It's you!!

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  42. Ben B.
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    And Bush is unimpressed by the report, and claims that "it changes nothing." What a dumbass.

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  43. Tsada K.
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    A moment ago Kevin H. says:

    It's not your threads that people don't like, Tsada.  It's you!!
    -----------

    They hate me for my freedom.

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  45. Tsada K.
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    Seriously though.  Then he has the nerve to say that this is proof that the "carrot and the stick" tactic has worked.  Huh???  So now he's taking the credit for something that happened 3 years ago because of threats he made six months ago? What????

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  47. Kevin H.
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    Stop trying to defeat George W. Bush with "logic", Tsada!  You should know by now that he's "invulnerable" to "facts", to "reality", and to "common sense"!

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  48. Tsada K.
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    *waiting for Joe to mention that he has a DVD with both "carrot" and "stick" in the title*

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  49. Kevin H.
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    We don't trust Iran with plutonium?  I can't believe we trust Mr. Bush with it!  (I can't believe we trust him with access to all that cocaine in justice department's evidence locker, either!)

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  52. Kevin H.
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    It certainly LOOKS to me like Jessica and Heidi are speaking in code...

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  53. Tsada K.
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    I am currently watching Pat Buchanan rip Bush and Cheney for misleading us yet again, for painting yet another false picture that would lead us into yet another war.


    It is scary when Bush does shit that makes me agree with Pat Buchanan.  
    You know, like this.  
    And like stealing the 2000 election.

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  54. Tsada K.
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    (on MSNBC)

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  56. Kevin H.
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    Who am I going to be agreeing with "on the issues" next?  Alan Keyes!?

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  57. Tsada K.
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    Next I'm going to be arguing that ketchup really is a vegetable.

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  59. Kevin H.
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    I agree, Tom.  All we need now is another war and a few more upper class tax cuts.

    Oh...and lots more cronyism.  I defy you to find me ONE THING that's better than cronyism!

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  61. Tsada K.
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    1 minute ago J-M R. says:

    Tsada K. says:

    Next I'm going to be arguing that ketchup really is a vegetable.

    -------

    thing about analogies is, ya need to know when to stop :-)
    ----------------------

    That wasn't an analogy, dorkus!

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  62. Tsada K.
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    "Remember Ketchup the Vegetable?
    Back in the l980's, the Reagan administration famously categorized ketchup as a vegetable, to meet minimum nutrition requirements for school lunches.

    Now the second Bush administration has continued this glorious tradition of Republican prevarication, this time in regard to wetlands.

    Check out "Field & Stream" conservation director Bob Marshall's biting column on the topic. This is how it begins:


    The Bush Administration announced last week that the nation is no longer losing wetlands--as long as you consider golf course water hazards to be wetlands.

    Really.

    (HT: Huffington Post)"


    achangeinthewind.typepad…

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  64. Kevin H.
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    Once again:

    Kevin H. says:

    We don't trust Iran with plutonium?  [OK, uranium...whatever!]  I can't believe we trust Mr. Bush with it!  (I can't believe we trust him with access to all that cocaine in justice department's evidence locker, either!)

    [HAH!]

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  67. Kevin H.
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    Can and have launched a non-nuclear attack within the past 5 years.  Can and have threatened Iran with a nuclear strike.

    Are Israel, Pakistan, India, or China bound by this same protocol?

    Also, I don't believe you addressed the cocaine argument anywhere in that response, J-M.  Therefore, I win!

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  68. Kevin H.
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    Then again, all the nations I've listed DO have nuclear programs AND nuclear weapons, I believe.

    As far as Uranium goes...doesn't Gabon have the largest Uranium deposits in the world?  Shouldn't we be MORE concerned that they'll develop a nuclear weapons program?

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  73. Kevin H.
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    I'm sorry, it's Niger that has the world's largest uranium deposits...and I still don't see where POTENTIAL to develop a program to make nuclear weapons equals "a ruthless, terrorist organization determined to rule the world!"

    And you really shouldn't be throwing reactors at anyone!  That's not very nice!!

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  74. Tsada K.
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    Russell P. says:

    Wow.  Is this the same National Intelligence Council that said, in 2002, ""Iraq is continuing, and in some areas expanding its chemical, biological, nuclear, and missile programs contrary to UN resolutions."  You didn't believe them then, but you believe them now?!?!  Why?  I bet I can guess.

    Additionally, if the Iranian nuclear production was suspended in 2003, do you think that could have anything to do with the Bush administration's foreign policy?  Maybe that camel-fucking leader over there said, "Oh, snap.  If we don't stop with this nuclear arms shit, we may get blown to high holy hell."  Stop looking through your hate-colored glasses and view it with some sense of reason.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Just because you're not getting any camel pussy lately doesn't mean you have to hate on those with game, Russell.

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  77. Kevin H.
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    Or how about that North Korea.  We're sure not Hell-bent on even getting into TALKS with North Korea...  (I suspect this is due in part to the fact that it's hard to stare Kim Jong-Il in the face without getting constantly distracted by his choice in eyewear...)

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  80. Tsada K.
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    Russell P. says:

    Why would I need camel pussy, Tsada, when I could have you?

    -----------------------------
    Not!

    I'd take a camel over a Republican any day.

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  85. Kevin H.
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    Tom, avert your eyes.  There's nothing to see here.  Now move it along before we have to create another distraction!

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  86. Joe J.
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    tsada hates freedom!

    uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C…

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  87. Tsada K.
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    You are funny rl!

    But actually I never really loved that video.  Great song, though!

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  88. Joe J.
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    i just danced in my dining room, which lacks a table, to that old song....!  put the wine down?

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  90. Joe J.
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    eww russell...







    you aint my daddy.

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  91. Kevin H.
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    Tsada hates freedom fries, too!!

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  92. Tsada K.
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    Hey Russell--

    I ran into one of your students the other day and they showed me the required reading for your class:

    billoreilly.com/c/Kids-A…

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  93. Joe J.
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    laughing my ass of tsada! ... or lmao .. or rolflmao .. whatever.   that was funny.

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  94. Beau G.
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    Dammit!  I was promised a war!!!!

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  98. .Hazel T.
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    Woof.  Woof woof woof!  (Damn, they listened to me the first few times I cried 'woof'....)

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  99. Kevin H.
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    Jerry, I thought it was clear by now that the Bush administration prefers discredited and outdated intelligence to "facts", "logic", or "sanity".  Please keep this in mind in the future.

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  1. Craig M.
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    Good grief trying to be polite gets me called obnoxious.....forgive me, but you are truly an ass.

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  5. Craig M.
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    Russell P.  life is too short.  Never mind the closed mind. Go to the Humor section or 'Relationships and Dating' there much more fun to watch.

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  6. Tom P.
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    have you guys ever heard of the Institute for Propaganda Analysis? i came across their research when reading about the bush administration's public speech tactics (or maybe it was an analysis of bill o'reilly's commentary). anyhow...  WWII propaganda has a lot in common with current conservative rhetoric, including:

    1. Name-calling: linking the person or idea being attacked to a negative symbol

    2. Glittering generalities: words that are linked to highly valued concepts.

    3. Transfer: carrying over the authority, sanction, and prestige of one thing to something unrelated

    4. Testimonial: use of personal experience to convince

    5. Plain folks: speakers attempt to convince their audience that they, and their ideas, are "of the people"

    6. Card stacking: selective omission of facts

    7. Bandwagon: "You're either with us, or against us"

    the bush administration is clearly guilty of 5, 6 and 7.

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  7. Darin E.
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    Russell P. says:

    So, in the last 4 months the NIE has become more knowledgeable?  

    I would say that the NIE is going to have a far more conservative conclusion now that Bush has already f-up with using previous NIE's to back up his ideas.  Besides the statements you wrote actually do go hand in hand with the new NIE.  The only press the new NIE is getting is the portion that detailed the cease of new weapons research in 2003.  

    "We assess that Tehran is determined to develop nuclear weapons--despite its international obligations and international pressure."

    This is a far cry from Bush's statements as Iran being within an inch of full scale production and the pending apocalypse he is advertising.

    Also Russell, by calling me Chode it just wants me to start making comments about your wife, your dog, your taste in clothes, and your crazy over inflated ego.  None of which have anything to do with this topic.  If you want to start with these immature little name calling threads so be it.   As far as I am concerned you got nothing on me.  I laugh at your feeble attempts to put me down.  You come across like a pathetic out of state moron towing the Bush line even when he is obviously wrong.

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  8. Tom P.
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    what's bush's current approval rating?

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  9. Darin E.
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    Tom I think they use them all.  

    Tom P. says:
    the bush administration is clearly guilty of 5, 6 and 7.

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  10. Tom P.
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    i agree, darin.

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  13. Kevin H.
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    Russell P. says:

    Kevin---Once again, I think NIE reports should be analyzed whatever they say.  They've been wrong before, they'll be wrong again.  Why are you so certain this is correct?  That's what I'm trying to ask.....
    _______________

    Russell, I'm going to explain this one time.  As clearly and explicitly as possible...

    I have NEVER said these reports were correct.  I have never even implied it.  Have I implied they were credible?  Yes.  Correct?  No.

    Now, my concern here is that we have a man who said of these reports that they change nothing in his view.  Nothing.  Not only is that ignorant, not only is that stupid, not only is that short sighted, not only is that arrogant, not only is that self-destructive, not only is that CRIMINAL, but this MAN of whom I speak happens to be the President of the United States.  This man has a duty to all the citizens of this nation (and arguable, this planet) to make the BEST choices from ALL available sources...instead of conducting a fishing expedition for sources which he hopes are correct.  THIS MAN chose not to do that once, and it's lead to the deaths of over 4000 Americans who didn't need to die, to a TRILLION DOLLARS in spending from the US federal budget, to a decimation of US international relations, to increased religious extremism abroad (and in our own nation...and no, not limited to the Islamic faith), to a questioning of the very values the Constitution grants all citizens (and 200 years of Supreme Court decisions which have only reinforced that document.)  Can we really afford to trust this man to once again pick and choose his evidence in making a case for war?  Do you, Russell, do ANY OF US here doubt that if this man has already made up his mind that he wants to invade Iran...it's just a matter of how?

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  14. Craig M.
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    Kevin,

    does this illuminate anything or is this more of the same?

    weeklystandard.com/weblo…

    Don't get all up in arms about the Weekly Standard please just read the article and let me know if this helps clarify Bush's predicament.

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  16. Kevin H.
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    Craig, my questions there (which I don't expect you to be able to answer) would be...

    1)  Why would Dr. Fingar be elected to Chairman "hyper-partisan anti-Bush officials[]"?
    2)  If Dr. Fingar were a(n) "hyper-partisan anti-Bush official[]" why DID he support a position virtually identical to that of the president only 6 months ago?
    3)  Why has Mr. Bush (so far as I have seen and heard) failed to attack the credibility of this report (as opposed to simply ignoring it) if its contents are so dubious?

    I think these are fair questions to ask.  The first two, I only raise in response to the article, the third I raise in response to criticism of the report itself.

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  17. Kevin H.
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    Oops...typo...

    1)  Why would Dr. Fingar be elected to Chairmen of the NIE (NIC?  -- different sources are abbreviating this differently, but NIE seems to be most common) if he were a "hyper-partisan anti-Bush official[]"?

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  18. Darin E.
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    My my Russ you drop the f-bomb like it is going out of style.  You are so quick to start calling me names without even knowing me.  Whats up with that?  I choose not to make comments about you because it is too easy.  You cannot seem to post anything worthy in this thread without attacking someone.  A little insecure are we?  Your a sad sad texan.

    Russell P. says:

    So, Darin.  You want to make comments about my wife or my dog because I direct comments at you?  Wow.  You are truly a little wimp.  "The big, bad man makes me feel bad so I'll attack people that aren't even on the Yelp community."  Fucking chode.  If you want to talk about me, be a man and talk about me.  Besides, my wife is good looking and my dogs are damn cute.  My style?  Knock yourself out.

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  19. Craig M.
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    Who appoints the Chairman of the NIE?

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  20. Craig M.
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    • 78 reviews

    Nevermind.....a career diplomatic grunt in an ivory tower.
    dni.gov/aboutODNI/bios/f…

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  22. M Z.
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    This is a Catch 22 either way, for more than just Bush... did you see where Hillary endorsed his tough talk with Iran? I'd be very happy if I were Obama.

    J-M R. cogently said: "they still have lots of Uranium over there, and I don't think they are lighting their x-mas tree with it!"

    Touche.

    Yes... why didn't they let the IAEA in to inspect? Why does a country with goobs of oil, the second-largest natural gas deposits in the world, and 300 days of sun (hello, solar?)... need nuclear energy?

    This is tough, but maybe this will just mean that Israel will have to go it alone.

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  23. M Z.
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    Folks, don't forget, all they released was the 2-page summary... not the 150 pages of info.

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  24. M Z.
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    Russell, great points.

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  25. Kevin H.
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    I love how my attempts at clear and solid arguments just means that I get cut out of the dialogue completely.

    Hmmm...now I know how the NIE feels!  (Oh, and this isn't the finding of just ONE intelligence agency, it's the finding of SIXTEEN US intelligence agencies.)

    Also, so it's clear to everyone:  The NIE is the National Intelligence Estimate.  It's the report that we've been citing.  The NIC is the National Intelligence Committee.  It's the agency which produces the NIE.  (At least that's what 15 minutes worth of research has taught me.)

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  26. Kevin H.
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    *sigh*

    Typo...

    "...arguments just mean..."

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  28. Kevin H.
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    J-M, how's that any different than any of the rest of us?  Is it fair to "take us out" because you have suspicions that we're up to wrongdoing?  (I'm certainly surrounded at ALL times with the potential wrongdoing...and all my neighbors are quiet, upper-middle-class families who could EASILY be disrupted by my "antics"!  Once, I even considered having a band play on the roof...briefly.)

    Besides, it's really not Ahmadinejad's motives that concern me here...it's J-M R.'s!

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  30. Kevin H.
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    The real question here is whether we'd have to write a review of his brain, too...

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  32. Kevin H.
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    I have a good response to that...but I'm HOPING (just for one moment) that my post (that's 4 posts above this one) will get some notice and/or concessions.  (Don't worry, it'll get neither.  Like I said, after making good arguments, I know how the latest NIE feels.  Neglected to say the least...)

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  37. Kevin H.
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    • 88 reviews

    Russell, I've said this before, and I'll say this again...  If you misunderstand me after THIS, the problem is YOU.  Sorry...

    1)  It was NOT just a finding by the NIC, but a finding by SIXTEEN US intelligence agencies.
    2)  I don't know that SIX months ago Dr. Fingar went into detail about the program, merely that he repeated the White House talking points.  Detail would be explicit explanation of "Where, when, and how."  He didn't do that.  He said "enriching uranium", "diminish...UNSC sanctions", "determined to develop nuclear weapons".  And just for the sake of DETAIL, those statements were made SIX months ago, not four.
    3)  MOST IMPORTANT:  How is Mr. Bush credible at all after taking this SAME APPROACH in his justification to Iraq, and JUST LIKE in Iraq, he's made it CLEAR that he will simply discard any information that does NOT fit with his whims?  You're concerned about ONE organization (or even sixteen...we can make it sixteen if you like) that has changed positions, in the past six months, I'm FAR more concerned in why you think a man (who has done this EXACT THING IN THE PAST) is credible when he can't seem to even take into account any information that is in opposition to his viewpoint.  Instead, he ignores that information.  It's not about the report, and I'm NOT concerned with the NIC's credibility or lack thereof.  What concerns me is this administration's reaction.  PLEASE NOTE:  Unlike yourself, Mr. Bush has NEVER CLAIMED the NIE is inaccurate, is not credible, or should not be believed.  Mr. Bush's reaction was basically, "I don't care."
    4)  I've NEVER said this report was true, merely that it was credible and should be investigated and considered, instead of ignored outright.  How is that heresy, exactly?
    5)  Finally, so you agree Mr. Bush was determined to invade another sovereign nation based on speculation and hearsay?  (Even if you agree that this report may have quashed that desire...)

    These are the issues I am TRYING to convey.  These are the issues I will deal with.  If you're not interested in discussing these issues (which I have raised NUMEROUS TIME) then simply don't respond.  Thanks!

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  39. Kevin H.
    • 117 friends
    • 88 reviews

    *sigh*

    I'm NOT being a prick, I'm frustrated with your inability to confront anything I've said that was valid, and generally your choice to INSTEAD simply ignore those arguments which you can't easily confront.  There's a DIFFERENCE.

    1)  As I explained above, the National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) is created by the National Intelligence Committee (NIC).  You have been criticizing this ONE organization.  Would you like to expand your comments to all sixteen organizations?  (I don't know what all sixteen are, I'm not going to look them up for you, but if you choose to discredit all sixteen, please list them.  That's only fair.)
    2)  I misread that as June.  You're right.  Five months ago.  (I said five when the article was first posted, but misread it as June 11, this morning...and no, I didn't go to the Yelp party...so I'm not using a hangover as an excuse.)  And the difference is that you said he gave a detailed account.  I was confronting you on that point.  You haven't confronted MY point, which is that these statements are just Bush administration talking points, and IDENTICAL to the talking points used to justify the invasion of Iraq.  (An invasion where these talking points were ALL dead wrong!)
    3)  Bush's credibility has been REPEATEDLY brought up by me, not you, and it is VERY RELEVANT when you're criticizing a report because of it's possible falsity, but not criticizing the person (who happens to be President) who said this report "changes nothing".  Especially when that person's JOB is to lead the lead the American people in an informed manner.  It's rather funny because you're criticizing people for going "the last report was a lie, but this one is the gospel truth!"  That's NOT the case (for reasons I've discussed above), but it is EXACTLY what Mr. Bush is doing here.
    4)  I didn't say "hearsay", I said "heresy".  VERY DIFFERENT.
    5)  Um...OK...so those organizations are claiming they now have other, more credible information.  Yet, you have a President who will take speculation and the hearsay (not the heresy, however) from some intelligence organizations when it fits his whims, but you have the SAME PRESIDENT unwilling to even CONSIDER the "latest and greatest" updated information.  Do you see the inconsistency here?  (And yeah, you're going to say that I should do the same.  The difference, as I've repeatedly said, is that I didn't say this report was "gospel truth", I basically said that it was credible and deserved investigation...ya know, instead of starting another war, costing more American lives, costing another trillion dollars, throwing the Middle East into further chaos, further tarnishing the image of the US, and other consequences which are possibly worse than that, and doing it only because this report supposedly "changes nothing" in the face of hearsay and speculation which DO justify the President's viewpoint, yet at the same time Mr. Bush can't bring himself to publicly question the validity of that report.)

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  40. Craig M.
    • 24 friends
    • 78 reviews

    Frankly,  I don't care what the NIC or Fingar reports OR what Bush has said.....The IRANIAN government is crazy, greedy and duplicitous. They've lied repeatedly in the past, they've made outlandish statements and very scary threats. All of this is from my Iranian friends and observing news reports over the past 30 years. Kevin and Russell you may both go back and forth which is really appreciated but you obviously both have more in common than you may think. Just imagine saying some of the things you're saying now in Iran. Then you've really lost your heads (literally).

    Bottom line....I'd rather have an hard nosed President (who the Iranians may think will call for an invasion) than a wishy, washy, "let's talk more and more, let's negotiate etc." The Iranians are NOT going to do anything unless the government feels like there is a direct threat. It is scary I know....I've got kids I don't want to see innocent Iranians our troops and others killed because of MISINFORMATION. Therefore if IRAN has nothing to hide let all of the UN and IAEA inspectors in and let them inspect at will.

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  41. Kevin H.
    • 117 friends
    • 88 reviews

    "The IRANIAN government is crazy, greedy and duplicitous. They've lied repeatedly in the past, they've made outlandish statements and very scary threats."

    The same was said about the government in Iraq, the government of North Korea, the government of Zimbabwe, the government of China, the government of Cuba, the government of Russia...oh, and the government of the United States.  This alone is not enough to justify a sustained military invasion, nor the further decimation of lives, economies, goodwill.

    As for me?  I'd be all for UN and IAEA inspectors also, but that's not going to happen without going into talks.  How else do you plan on doing this?  The UN can certainly come in and say "like it or leave it", but even then the first step is sanctions...not military actions.

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  43. Craig M.
    • 24 friends
    • 78 reviews

    Russia and China cheered at the latest NIC//NIE report they've already been dragging their heels.  I didn't say invade...just let them think we will. I'm NOT for doing it...just let them be afraid.
    Where do we get our oil (is it something like 40+% from the middles east? I'm not sure)

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  44. Darin E.
    • 297 friends
    • 426 reviews

    Michael, so true.  But I still find it interesting how volatile the oil markets gets due to futures, and just regional instability.  How interesting the price jumps $4-5 a gallon based on a speech from one leader to another.  I would think the "invading an oil rich country to pay for a war/economy/younameit" crowd woud have learned this by now.

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  45. Darin E.
    • 297 friends
    • 426 reviews

    As of 2004, 19% of our oil comes from mid-east Opec countries.

    news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/busi…

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  46. Craig M.
    • 24 friends
    • 78 reviews

    Let's cut our oil consumption by 38% and let the OPECer's eat their fucking oil.

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  48. Craig M.
    • 24 friends
    • 78 reviews

    I'm gonna car pool and anything else I can think of...economize trips, take the shortest route, buy a gas miser car when it comes time. No sudden starts, stops, coast, walk, don't idle, etc. etc.

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  51. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Dr. Bill mentioned tonight (Saturday), that the key for having a nuclear weapon is not designing the weapon, which he says is far easier today (sophisticated manufacturing equipment is commonplace now)... it is having the enriched uranium (?)... (I'm multi tasking, so just listening off and on with one ear).

    And isn't Iran producing enriched Uranium?

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  52. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    {KGO, 810 AM, Sat night]

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  54. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Folks, Iran has gobs of oil.

    #2 - they've also got the second-largest provable natural gas deposits in the world.

    #3 - they've also got 300 days of sun. (Hello, solar.)


    So WHY do they need nuclear energy? Oh yeah, Stevie just told us!

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  56. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    But Steve, while you're at it... how many countries have you been to? *smile*


    Boy, you Liberals and your violence!! Anger issues, anger issues...

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  57. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    I'm feeling an avatar change coming on...

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  58. Squinka C.
    • 99 friends
    • 139 reviews

    is this show a repeat? I thought I saw the part before where Stephen gets asked which countries he's been to (asked and answered in detail btw) before.

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  59. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    You're right Squink.
    I have deja-lofasz too.

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  60. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    {Never saw the answer, Squinka.... but I have seen the anger.}

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  62. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    *pisses on floor, half in laughter, half as hommage to Erhard*

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  63. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Stevie, will you clean up your pee now?

    {I thought you had a job like that over at the PowerExchange on Water Sports Night.}

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  64. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    {Low 5 to Mully.}

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  65. David D.

    I thought oil came from whales.

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  68. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    Oil of Lofasz has dramatically reduced the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles around my otherwise pouty beestung lips.

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  69. Squinka C.
    • 99 friends
    • 139 reviews

    I like to hoard chilly hearts in my cardia-cupboard until they wither and turn to ash. Then I rub the precious on my brow and try to remember deleted threads.

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  70. David D.

    I saw some fine obsidian knives for sale at Teotihuacan.

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  71. David D.

    I do think Oil of Lofasz has amazing curative powers.

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  72. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Paging Dr. Phil.

    Paging Dr. Phil.

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  73. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    I would have thought you'd page Dr. Dean Edell.

    You know, KGO loyalty and all...

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  76. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Joe, when KayJay asks you to jump, do you say,

    "How high?"

    Or, "How high, Miss KayJay?"

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  77. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Good one, Tsada. Good one.

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  79. David D.

    Now touch the other monkey.

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  80. Kevin H.
    • 117 friends
    • 88 reviews

    I'm pretty sure the ocean floor has the largest natural gas reserves in the world...something like 4 quadrillion gallons.  (After that point, I got bored with the conversation...all kindsa violence and threats...but no sex or rock'n'roll.  Ya know that sex & rock'n'roll are renewable resources, right?  We need more of both...badly!)

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  81. Kevin H.
    • 117 friends
    • 88 reviews

    Isn't Art Bell on KGO, too?  I never here Mark make ANY mention of "shadow people" or bigfoot or UFOs...it's really kind of a disappointment.

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  82. Ben B.
    • 8 friends
    • 52 reviews

    The situation isn't over yet. From what I've heard, Iran has still continued with some of the nuclear development, so could still potentially create weapons in the next 5 years (give or take). And no, I am completely opposed to war with Iran, but I think that some diplomatic settlement can be reached.

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  83. Darin E.
    • 297 friends
    • 426 reviews

    I think the one thing that is missing from this discussion is the fact that the religious regime in charge in Iran has one goal: stay in power. They have not held on to power by making choices that threaten themselves.  Sure the uranium enrichment will one day allow them to possibly have nukes but the crucial thing to understand is that if they do make them it is because only then can they guarantee no threat of attack from the US.  Example, look at North Korea.  We have isolated them and have no intention of invading/attacking. Listen to the soft language we use with N. Korea...that has got to make Kim Jong-il happy to know he will not be attacked so long as he rattles his saber every so often.  I am thinking Khamenei is just following the example we have taught him.

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  84. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Does it make sense to threaten to "wipe Israel off the map"? To "push Jews into the sea"? This guy would make Hitler blush (in rhetoric). (Some say he did that to get cred in the Middle east... but he sure plays a delicate game, if Israel or the US decide to take out his building nuclear program.)

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  85. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Kevin, Art Bell is a Yelp Elite! (Not on KGO.)

    I heard yesterday that 67% of Americans don't believe the report. Very interesting. Also interesting that there is so little talk of what was going on in Syria, how Israel took it out, how there has been little airplay, Syria cleaned it up in record time, and North Korea has been laying low. We've been tracking shipments from North Korea to the Middle East for months.

    Wasn't this little guy part of the gang that kidnapped the Americans in 1980?

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  86. Darin E.
    • 297 friends
    • 426 reviews

    Mark, I think we have already discussed this....and I think you just answered your own question.  Those bold statements that people seem to get all flustered about are just verbals rants.  It is just an attempt to bring others into the fight with Iran.  Why fight the US alone when you can make this fight something bigger and broader...appealing to more people in the mid-east.  He gets major kudos from Arab countries when he does this by generating support from the Pro Palestinian contingent.  Political leaders use this technique all the time.  Besides, it is important to seperate what Ahmadinejad says and what Khamenei says.  One is a complete puppet of the other.

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  88. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    Mark A. says:

    Does it make sense to threaten to "wipe Israel off the map"? To "push Jews into the sea"? This guy would make Hitler blush (in rhetoric).
    ---------------------

    Please.  The only one who is blushing is I, for the fact that I share the human race with those who feel it is appropriate to equate Ahmadinejad to Hitler.

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  89. Poe T.
    • 338 friends
    • 3 reviews

    Even I have nothing to say on this thread. I don't really care what Iran says, they just make shit up anyways. Cripes, my homies take 2 hour lunches and 4 hour siestas, how do you expect them to build a nooookler bomb?

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  90. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Tsada: its real simple. Did he say these things? Or didn't he?

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  91. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Has he said these things, and worse? Yes.

    Were 6 million Jews killed in the Holocaust? Yes.

    Do most Middle Eastern countries - at least some radical % - hate Israel, and blame them for all their woes? Yes.

    Are many of these countries jealous of Israel? Yes.

    Could a few new nuclear weapons end Israel, as we know her? Yes.

    Did Israel just wipe out a secret nuclear program in Syria? Yes.


    Now, there is a good argument that we need to stay out of this. But if you're Israeli or Jewish, can you see thier concern? BTW... Boxer is Jewish... so is DiFi... so is Lieberman. Notice how they don't take these things lightly?

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  92. Poe T.
    • 338 friends
    • 3 reviews

    Mark A. says:

    Tsada: its real simple. Did he say these things? Or didn't he?
    -------
    Well duh, of course he said them. And George said mission accomplished, Iraq has WMD and Iraq was responsible for 911. And North Korea has said a bunch of bullshit too. And take your pick from any other asshole that has said or threatened anybody. So what's your point? Ahmadinejad said he wants to wipe Israel off the earth and he's an asshole and we all know that. What else is there left to say? Now, can we just put more energy into having a decent intelligence network in the US so we can a step ahead of these assholes?

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  93. Darin E.
    • 297 friends
    • 426 reviews

    zzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz­zzzzzzz oh this same conversation...zzzzzzzzzzZZZZZ­ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz

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  94. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Poe, on your point, we can AGREE. I heard a former CIA guy... who wrote some book on the CIA... about its shortcomings, and how only one Pres. in maybe 50 years understood it. (GB # 1.)

    And WHY don't we have more CIA folks who speak Farsi, Arabic, Mandarin, etc.??? Really friggin stupid!! (And that is the fault of BOTH major the GOP & Demos.)
    ____________________

    Poe says:

    "Now, can we just put more energy into having a decent intelligence network in the US so we can a step ahead of these assholes?"

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  95. Poe T.
    • 338 friends
    • 3 reviews

    My uncle, a US citizen of 50 years volunteered for the CIA and FBI after 911 as a translator, they flat out said no without even checking him out. I went on the FBI website to search for translator jobs, they paid shit without benefits since they only hired them as contractors not as employees. There are many other stories like these. Isn't it just like Americans not to learn another language and expect the entire world to speak English, even the terrorists.
    Like I heard one woman say on TV regarding bi-lingual signs in public places; If English was good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for me.

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  96. Nic K.
    • 38 friends
    • 55 reviews

    It's much more complicated that knowing the language...you gotta know the culture. If it was the other way around and someone from Russia or wherever wanted to be a english translator in San Francisco, speaking the book language is way different from trying to translate what 'hella' means or 'Tenderloin' and not describing a steak.

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  97. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    In regard to equating Ahmadinejad with Hitler, I believe volumes have been written (in this thread and elsewhere) as to why that comparison is inappropriate.  So instead of cluttering cyberspace with more of my own rhetoric, let me direct you to this apropos quotation from the illustrious Joan Cusak, from the 1988 film, "Working Girl":



    "Sometimes I sing and dance around the house in my underwear. Doesn't make me Madonna. Never will."

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  98. Poe T.
    • 338 friends
    • 3 reviews

    Yes Nick, so I wonder why they don't hire people like me and my uncle who do know the culture.
    I think it's because we are all terrorists anyways.

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  99. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Yeah, more proof of how stupid gov't is... I'd find $100 M to cut right away... or $300 M to cut... and then fund said language programs. And pay folks like Poe, and such, a market-level wage (or better), with bennies,

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  100. M Z.
    • 89 friends
    • 71 reviews

    Shocking... Poe & i agree on something!

    Oh, Poe, I'd go a step farther.. there would be a signing bonus (payable, say, after 6 months), as well as, say, a 3-year or 5-year retention bonus.

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