First Eddie Bauer, then Cody's....now I hear the Ross store in downtown Berkeley is shutting down. Ross! What's next, the Goodwill?
Their storefront  vacancy rate must be nearing 50%...I guess that's what happens when you make businesses go through 10,000 hoops to open, as if they should be priviledged to open in your relicated hippy town. I never thought I'd see the day Oakland's downtown was more happenin' than Berkeley, but here we are. They should just annex the southern half of that decrepit town into Oakland, the top half to Albany, and trademark the name for UCB's usage only.

Oakland! Oakland! Oakland!

Telegraph is like a ghost town. Both of the places I used to work are out of business.  That street has always kind of made me want to open a vein, just now it's for different reasons.

I think they plan on growing crops down there soon or something...

Aside from bars, I'm having a difficult time thinking of one business that still remains in DT Berkeley that was there when I first started Cal...

BTW You also forgot Barnes and Noble, the Gateway store and Act I &II cinema.

Michael, search Spud's Pizza on here for one example.

I didn't know about B&N...I still use the Gateway pc I bought from that store about 6 months before closing. Would've been nice to go back & see what accessories they had for it, online shopping just ain't the same. I miss the Act also, but fear cinemas in general are an endangered species...the Grand Lake may be next.

You used to be able to buy LSD on Telegraph Ave. really easily, and now you can't.  Since the acid dealers left the whole city went downhill.  

As far as the Castro goes, there is nothing sick about the Castro.  We don't want a Wal Mart or McDonalds in the Castro, big deal.

All municipalities make businesses jump through hoops.  I've been trying to open my shop in Oakland since July.  

In Berkeley's case, it's not the city, it's fourth street and emeryville's proximity

Yea..the only problem is that there is no turnover. Potential business-owners see the writing on the wall and won't invest in a dying area that requires miles of red tape to start up.

I don't know the details, but I have talked to many business owners in Berkeley, and it is a difficult town in which to operate a chain business.  I don't know what's  the status of the Trader Joe's that was going to open in the place of the old Pep Boys/Kragen Auto Parts, but I know there was fierce resistance to it.  I wonder what it must have taken to turn Gap into Walgreens (there's another store that went under at the hands of Berkeley).

The only source of revenue in Berkeley that seems to do consistently well is ticketing for parking violations.

Could it also be rising rents, competition from chains, and a changing economy?  When I was at Berkeley all the shops were very Haight streetish, students weren't charging up their credit cards, housing was cheap to buy or rent, and you could buy lunch for $3 or $4.

Cynthia, I was referring to Cuba's leader.

These pretentious boors who spend hours at Au Coquelet debating the plight of Myanmar should take a  look at their own decrepit town for once. Maybe Cheney should send in Haliburton to help give them a jump-start.

Jeff "The Cheesemonger" D. says:

"In Berkeley's case, it's not the city, it's fourth street and emeryville's proximity"

I think Downtown Brekeley's business problems began long before Emeryville became the place it is today (i.e. before Pixar, Ikea, Bay Street 16, etc.)

BTW, San Francisco is no picnic for business either.  It's not just the city government, the people here love stores but hate commerce.  It's offset by huge wealth, sophisticated consumers, foot traffic like crazy, tourists shopping everywhere, tremendous talent, a great human and financial infrastructure, and a can-do entrepreneurial drive every bit as great as the anti-business element.  So it's both one of the very hardest places to start a business, and one of the most powerful business startup environments, at once.

There are places that seem to do well in Berkeley though - Fourth Street and the Gourmet Ghetto, for instance.  But there's something about Downtown Berkeley and, to a lesser extent, Telegraph Ave. that just seems to kill businesses.

I think Telegraph Ave. survives (the small places, anyway) because students have to pass those businesses to get to the units; students heading downtown are generally heading towards BART; and why stop downtown to shop when you can continue into SF?

Also, it would help if City of Berkeley eased up on the liquor license laws...

Mike Z. says:

"Although UC pays no direct taxes to Berkeley, it provides enormous economic support to the city just by virtue of its existence.    Hopefully one of these days these clowns will get a clue, but I doubt it.

Remember Berkeley,  without UC you are basically just El Cerrito."

Seriously.  I think City of Berkeley resents that, too...

But, I must say, I think difficulty businesses have in Berkeley has more to do with the residents than the city council itself...I think they are really the ones that resent UC.

Oh Fidel Castro, I get it.  I'm a little slow, lol.

Kriss Worthington....the middle-aged backpacker who wanted to hand all available city finds to teenage runaways but never tipped us when he held luncheons at our restaurant. Equal pay for equal work, ehhh....

I've only read 60% of this thread... but it seems like all you folks have mentioned is rep tape.

Yes, there is red tape; homelessness / drug addicts / drug dealing; crime; and the occasional student-or-other meltdown, were students / others go down Telegraph Ave., smashing windows. As noted, the competition from other local places, including the Internet for movies / music / clothes. And IKEA has probably forced a lot of small furniture places out of business. When you're 20 or 25 and single, street drugs might seem cool (to some). But if you have a 6-year-old, do you want to walk by someone tripping on acid or PCP? If you're a first-time small business owner, do you want the risk that your front windows will be bashed in?

Yes, it is the urban renewal / urban cycle... downtown Long Beach was the pits for decades, but a new marina, Grand Prix, and condos, helped with an awesome upswing. It sounds like you're saying Berkley is on a downward trend (right now). For years, no one could get (or didn't want to build) new apartments built in Berkeley, and finally one guy had the know-how,and money, to build a number of new buildings, to help alleviate the miniscule (and often in-poor-shape) Berkeley rental market. (Thank you, Rent Control.)

What new businesses could Berkeley bring in? You an only have so many t-shirt, incense, and holistic shops. Outside of the student, B may also have an aging population (that is consuming less).

OK, I have a suggestion: you folks tell me what you think.

Mid-rise to mid-rise-plus housing RIGHT NEXT to the BART STATION. That would bring in foot traffic, $$$, tax revenu, etc., and encourage mass transit.

Interesting. I see that Michael has flipped his view on gov't workers. I thought last week he was telling me how efficient they were... now he says he knows they work slow.

And Reaganomics? Is just the power of the Free Market. Supply & Demand, with less hoops to jump through. Create a true "win-win" situation, and there would be better, and safer, housing for UCB students. And more business = more tax dollars = more funds to pay for needed social services.

I think Singapore had a special business district where they fast-tracked gov't paperwork... what does San Francisco have? Was it 17, or 37, different forms / inspections that have to be met before you open a business? Not business friendly. Walnut Creek is now a major business hub, as well.)

I think the solar panel program is just an IDEA right now. But it does sound GREAT. If it works, it may go nationwide.... at last in the west!

And whoever recommended the Falafel Drive in in San Joser... thank you!!!

Yea...Berkeley WAS always considered one of the most desirable places to live in the Bay Area, especially for those wanting to downscale from the bustle of SF. Now those people are moving to Oakland, and Berkeley is becoming the neglected step-child of the east Bay.

Michael, but how many visible homeless does WC have? 2?
How many students-on-rampage night? 0
How much open drug dealing? 0
Does it have an anti-business tude? No.
And lastly, for a variety of reasons, WC has had an abundance of tax monies flowing in for years... so they have wisely re-invested it into parking garages, street plantings, benches, and other public improvements.

Poor students? How many students do you know today?

I'd say at least half the students have parents that are middle income, or much higher.  Every student has a cell phone. 90+% have a computer. They frequently east out... no, not at Boulevard... but at local places. Studets spend far more money today, tna  they did 30 years ago.

Again, I think part f this is also the aging of the population. I met a young woman working for a specialty furniture co at Coscto in Richmond. She was SLOW. We chatted. I told her, "Yo have to go to the San Ramon Costco. Trust me." Her co pulled out of t Richmond location early. Almost no sales. There were at Costco in SR a few weeks later... 2 guys were SWAMPED, and they had at least eight pieces of furniture that was marked "Sold". Outside of the studnets, San Pablo, Berkeley, El Cerrito feel old.

Mike Z - WOW!! OK, 'm running your numbers out.

200 employees x $10 a day (lunch, average), = $2,000a day! That's $10,000 per week!

$10,000 per week x 20 days = $200,000 per month! Which is what, $24 million per year - just in lunches????

Granted, many folks buy lunch for $6 a day... but they also buy coffee, a t-shirt, sodas, etc. Not to mention the "business lunches" you probably had catered one a quarter or month customers who ca to town for training, seminars, emploee interviews (hotel nights), etc.

Dam! And that is ONE business! (They were buffoons to let you go.)

$2.4 Mill

Mike Z - I think you have a great "agenda".

BTW, have you been to that legendary Indian place in Berkeley ... is it Chaat? I've yet to go. Need to!

But the Amoeba & Rasputin aren't closing, right?

Everything will be fine so long as there are still good music stores...

ROTFL

Mike Z, don't you know that all  your fellow employees... going to wok at 8:30 9 AM...working... walking... talng on cell phones... you were a buzzkill to the homeless & dope heads!

What about that empty lot that's been on Telegraph, across from Raleighs/Intermezzo since at least 1997 when I started at Cal?  I always thought In n Out should buy it.  It's just amazing to me that such prime real estate has gone completely undeveloped.

Michael "The Dragon Slayer" M. says:

Not sure what this has to do with the City's policies. I don't know of these 10,000 hoops either and I'm very familiar with municipal process.
--------
I know first hand the THOUSANDS of hoops we had to jump through to expand - not even to start a business, but to expand -  Tokyo Fish Market in Berkley.. The city was terrible to us. The original store was deemed a historical landmark one or two years prior to our plans to renovate so we couldnt tear it down to offer more parking to the customers. Note that we have occupied that same building for 43 years or something to that effect. Then, the storefront had to be on the avenue and could NOT be recessed in. Then all this other crap surfaced and a 1.5 year project took 3 years to complete. No this, No that, Can't do this, Can't do that, Has to have this, has to have that. my god. ridiculous.

Mark A. says:

Poor students? How many students do you know today?

I'd say at least half the students have parents that are middle income, or much higher.
----------
Middle income doesn't support a a kids tuition comfortably, might I add. Dorm fees - which some schools require students to stay on campus the first year - tuition, books, living expenses...its especially difficult when there's more than one kid to support.

unless you would like to clarify, more specifically, what you mean by that statement there isn't a need to respond to it.

Geoff, I'm with you! Hazaa!

Why isn't there retail on the 1st & 2nd floor ... and then student housing on the 3rd, 4th, & 5th floors? Or an office uilding with commercial on the 1st level? Make it fit in... add some balconies.. landscaping, etc.

Yea, many cities are so stupid. We had this cool, cheap place n Lafayette called Flavios? Very cool. Well, she (owner) was pushed out... it was an Italian restaurant... she decided to go to Orinda. OK. Theatre Square, new ly remodeled building.

What happened? Beyond all of the money she already had to invest, which was a lot... they made some MINOR changes to the kitchen plumbing codes... even though the kitchen had been redone by the previous tenant. On op of all her other expenses, she had to spend an additional $55,000 for minor changes to the kitchen plumbing!

Question:how many orders of salmon at $12.95 do you have t sell... after operating costs... to pay back that $55,000?

Yes, she was out of business in a year or so.

Mark A. says:
What happened? Beyond all of the money she already had to invest, which was a lot... they made some MINOR changes to the kitchen plumbing codes... even though the kitchen had been redone by the previous tenant. On top of all her other expenses, she had to spend an additional $55,000 for minor changes to the kitchen plumbing!

----------
sad :(

Mike Z. says:

God Kristi - you just don't GET IT do you???  You are the man, the bourgeoisie, the oppressor
---------
And her little dog too?

If little Kristi is the oppressor, you guys really need to grow some balls. And perhaps a penis.

Mike Z. says:

Michael "The Dragon Slayer" M. says:

Also, did you consider that an area predominately frequented by poor students is not the ideal place to open a business?
_________________

Lets see.  Evanston, Ann Arbor, Boulder, Madison, Eugene, Berkeley of 20 years ago, Santa Cruz.  I could go on and on.
----------

Madison...ever tried to get anything to eat in Madison that wasn't revolting? You can sell shit on a stick in the Berekly of the midwest. Nobody has to try to sell anything good. You've got a captive audience. Without the University, Madison is a cow town with the state capitol in the middle and that's about it. Students don't have any other choices if they don't want to drive far away.

Has Berkeley ever had nightlife? When I was there one summer session, I was told it was b/c there were "lots of "Greek" activities for students, "nerds" don't party as much, and that any decent place that opened would have a crime problem". I met some guys playing ball... we just went to The City together every now and then.

Poe says:

If little Kristi is the oppressor, you guys really need to grow some balls. And perhaps a penis.
------------------

Why do you always ask for an inch and take a foot?

actually, of the many places I've lived, I've always regarded Madison as having the best/most interesting/most varied cheap food.

I don't know anything about Berkeley night life but I can tell you that other than bands in hole in the wall bars, Madison, Ann Arbor, Columbus OH, and Purdue (Lafayette, IN) it was hard to find good food and anything else to do at night. Cow towns with big schools.

Might want to ask Uncle Steve about Berkeley cause he plays guitar in Berkeley on a weekly basis and goes and sees music there.

Tyler, was this recent? Maybe it's changed.

Mark, when was the last time you were in Berkeley and saw people--students in particular as you say--smashing out store windows?  As a matter of fact, when was the last time you were on Telegraph period?I worked on Telegraph avenue for about four years and never saw that occur.  In fact, I never really had any problem with crime there whatsoever. It just smelled like pee all the time.  

The worst part about working the Ave actually was the stupid kids from Walnut Creek and Lafayette who would give the finger to their rich parents by driving into town in dirty ass clothes and sitting on the sidewalk pretending to be homeless. That was annoying as fuck.

Poe, I left Madison three years ago. For $8 you could/can get good Laotian, Nepalese, East African, American, etc. Unfortunately, the Russian dumplings place closed, and the Sushi doesn't compare to SF, but for the most part a 10-dollar bill gets you much farther than in SF, certainly. Madison has been booming for the last 5+ years.

Tyler, the last time I was in Madison was last summer but only for one day. I hung out there a lot in the 80's and mid 90's so my info is pretty old. But man o' man the food there was disgusting! Himal Chulie (sp?) was the only OK place but that went downhill too. I was always happy to go back to Milwaukee. I know, Milwaukee....but seriously Milwaukee food was so much better and varied than Madison food at the time. Madison always got on my nerves after a while even though I loved going there. Everybody was about the same age range and University connected. Other than that there was a small hood with a couple of good jazz clubs and the rest was cow town and State gov. Always same same.

Tsada, the window-bashing doesn't happen often... but often enough that folks are aware of it. (Once every 2 years? Every  5 years?) It would be interesting to see what the insurance rates are for Telegraph, compared to other areas. And, you know, learning about all of the different homeless - "The Spot Man", etc. (the most popular ones were given names by the B students), ...

I think its just a combination of factors. None huge, but tied together, not pleasant. (Last time I was at 4th Street, few of those problems there.)

I read a while back where UCB wants to develop a block or so west of the campus... add some offices, maybe a hotel for out-of-town visitors, etc. And there is already opposition.

You're the first person who has ever said (to me) that kids from "WC and Lafayette" are being sidewalk problems in Bezerkely. When I've been there, its more like hippies, or wanna be hippies, from Oregon, Seattle, somewhere in the midwest, back east, alternative kids from LA who didn't fit in there... the Haight, deadheads, etc. A whole mix. Kids in Lafayette can find their drugs here, no problem, though an amazing % are dialed in to the college route. (Yes, Lafayette has a small but growing meth problem.)

Mark, even I know of kids from the suburbs crashing around Berkley spending lots of money to look dirty and having their youthful angst moments played out in front of Amoeba.
In SF, we get our kids from Marin. They do the same on Haight St.

Tyler, my guess is that Madison is like most other college towns - they get international students that add a neat mix to the place. And with so many students from China, India, Iran, etc., ... has their international student population expanded the past 10 years? That would add a whole lot of new "flavor" to the food scene.

sure, Madison is what it is...a mid-sized college town. If big cities are your thing, you won't like it. But for a college town, I think it has more to do/eat than Berkeley, Eugene, Missoula, Burlington and others.  I agree w/ you that Milwaukee gets a bad rap...I wouldn't want to live there, but, uh...it's less sick than Castro, as they say.

Mark A. says:

Tsada, the window-bashing doesn't happen often... but often enough that folks are aware of it. (Once every 2 years? Every  5 years?) It would be interesting to see what the insurance rates are for Telegraph, compared to other areas. And, you know, learning about all of the different homeless - "The Spot Man", etc. (the most popular ones were given names by the B students), ...

I think its just a combination of factors. None huge, but tied together, not pleasant. (Last time I was at 4th Street, few of those problems there.)

I read a while back where UCB wants to develop a block or so west of the campus... add some offices, maybe a hotel for out-of-town visitors, etc. And there is already opposition.

You're the first person who has ever said (to me) that kids from "WC and Lafayette" are being sidewalk problems in Bezerkely. When I've been there, its more like hippies, or wanna be hippies, from Oregon, Seattle, somewhere in the midwest, back east, alternative kids from LA who didn't fit in there... the Haight, deadheads, etc. A whole mix. Kids in Lafayette can find their drugs here, no problem, though an amazing % are dialed in to the college route. (Yes, Lafayette has a small but growing meth problem.)
------------------------------

Again Mark, can you answer my questions?  

Please give me an example of window bashing on Telegraph in the past 10 years. If "folks are aware of it", then why was I, a merchant on that street in two separate businesses, not?  

And when was the last time you spent a substantial amount of time there?

And how do you know where the street kids are coming from? ( As you put it, "When I've been there, its more like hippies, or wanna be hippies, from Oregon, Seattle, somewhere in the midwest, back east, alternative kids from LA who didn't fit in there... the Haight, deadheads, etc.")  Where are you getting your info?  Are you squatting down and chatting with them? I know where they are coming from because I know those kids--I talked to them, and I stepped over their asses everyday on my way to work.

Really the main issue on Telegraph is that the rents are astronomically high and the pressure to keep prices low for broke- ass students is even higher. Anything non-corporate cannot survive, unless the business owner owns the building as well.  There are a few exceptions, places like Anapurna, Al's Tobacco (that guy has a TINY shop so his rent is proportionately low to the others), Mario's La Fiesta, Smart Alec's.  I think those guys have been able to stay put because they have been there for decades and the owners have established themselves financially in other ways, as having unique and loyal clientele. I know the owner of Smart Alec's, and that guy got in when rents were slightly lower, made his money, and got into the real estate business.  He also caught Barry Bond's 600th hr ball (he's the one who fought the other guy for it) and got a nice chunk of cash there).  Other than that, even corporate businesses have trouble keeping up there.  The Gap was there for years before getting out, as well as Blockbuster.  I say good riddance to those guys--they were ruining the flavor of the Ave anyhoo.

should say "as *well* as having unique..."

Tsada,

Well put.

However doesn't this also just beg for more economic "diversity"in Berkeley? If Berkeley had some condo & townhouses built in certain areas ... in Telegraph Ave vicinity, near BART, etc. ... and nicer apartments (not run down, dilapidated places), then coul get professionals in their 30s - 50s to move into the area. Most places I have sen in Berkeley.. apartments, condos, houses... are RUN DOWN. Why? Rent control.

If they had some working professionals spending cash, they would help keep these businesses alive. Did you see the poster above say that his business was forced out of Berkeley???? Really stupid.
________________________

Tsada wrote:

Really the main issue on Telegraph is that the rents are astronomically high and the pressure to keep prices low for broke- ass students is even higher. Anything non-corporate cannot survive, unless the business owner owns the building as well.

Tsada,

Well put.

However doesn't this also just beg for more economic "diversity"in Berkeley? If Berkeley had some condo & townhouses built in certain areas ... in Telegraph Ave vicinity, near BART, etc. ... and nicer apartments (not run down, dilapidated places), then coul get professionals in their 30s - 50s to move into the area. Most places I have sen in Berkeley.. apartments, condos, houses... are RUN DOWN. Why? Rent control.

If they had some working professionals spending cash, they would help keep these businesses alive. Did you see the poster above say that his business was forced out of Berkeley???? Really stupid.
________________________

Tsada wrote:

Really the main issue on Telegraph is that the rents are astronomically high and the pressure to keep prices low for broke- ass students is even higher. Anything non-corporate cannot survive, unless the business owner owns the building as well.

Mark A. - AGAIN wins the best typer of the day award!

Mike, you get ten bonus points foruisng the word "akin". You know, I don't think I've ever used that word.

Touche!

Ooohhhh....Mike you were being sarcastic? OK i get it now.

The parking situation is downtown Berkeley is the core issue for why retail stores can't succeed there.

For restaurants and bars, lack of parking is less of an issue. You can park a block or two away and its no big deal since it's just walking with nothing to carry.

With retail shopping, people don't like to schlep a bunch of stuff for many blocks, and usually won't even try to play parking roulette when the odds are so poorly stacked against you. Instead they go to Emeryville big box retailers where there is lots of parking.

Berkeley might have good intensions with wanting to encourage people to use public transit by not building sufficient and inexpensive parking in downtown, but it's a losing strategy. They could learn from Walnut Creek's successful downtown that has three gigantic city owned multi-story parking garages and the rates are cheap at $1/hour.

The fact remains that Telegraph is a really tough place to do business. Parking is a huge issue, as Les says, but mainly it is very difficult to cater to a low-income clientele (students) in a high-rent area.  I did hair in two different salons on the Avenue and had trouble making ends meet.  Students didn't want to pay what my services were worth, and I ended up charging less just to get them in the door.  They also didn't tip for shit. And at the end of the day I had to shell out an hour's worth of my pay just to park my car. All in all it was a dirty, oppressive place to work with little opportunity for advancement.  The owner of the two places I worked eventually shut down because his rent kept going up and his stylists couldn't make him enough off the student based clientele to pay the rent.

After four years of working on the Avenue I moved just a few blocks up to salons in the Elmwood.  The difference was night and day.  Parking was more abundant, and the clientele, while still heavy on the students, was mixed with more a more affluent older crowd.  

I think it really depends what part of Berkeley you look at, and what type of business you run.  For the most part, opening a business in the immediate campus area these days is a death sentance.

Davis has great housing... pools, jacuzzi's, tennis courts... sure, land is cheaper there... and the past 10-15 years, the selection of places to eat has really mushroomed. Its no longer just Murder Burger, Mr. B's, and pizza. (But I do miss Mr. B's...)

Humm... how would a new Hooter's do?

...

(TM KayJay)

Exactly, Michael.

There are pockets of Berkeley, mainly in the immediate area around the campus, which have suffered in the past few years.  But like I said, all some business owners have to do is move a couple of blocks north or south and the increase in profits is dramatic. It worked for me when I was doing business in that city.

Isn't Cesar in Piedmont?

I road the Jungle Cruiser to my first high school game in Rolling Hills...

Michael, can you show me where I said that students spend $50 on a haircut, and 420 for a meal?

I'm waiting....

Mark, Cesar is not in Piedmont.

I think what Michael is saying is that in order to pay the bills in a high rent area like the UC Berkeley campus, a *quality* hairdresser must charge at least fifty dollars.  Sure you can find a haircut for less in that area, but the hairdresser is going to do your hair in 6-10 minutes to make up for the price in sheer volume.  Those stylists will also end up with carpal tunnel from working like that....

I think you mean that the other Cesar is in Oakland *on* Piedmont--by Kaiser.

MM, can you add something NEW to the discussion?

No whining. Just stating facts as I see them - which includes kids using drugs .

You wrote: "It's one thing for parents to pay rent, books, fees, and a small allowance....no parent is going to turn their kid into a high class consumer for their college years."

Really? Where did you learn or read this? Ever been to UOP, Santa Clara, or USC? Likewise, there is a RANGE of income levels, as well as a RANGE of parenting styles. In fact, many parents today are permissive and over-indulge their children. I've seen kids with new laptops, phones, and cars. And I did say that maybe 50% have money (50% may be on a limited budget) as a ballpark estimate.

You'll also note that while I offered several possible SOLUTIONS ... (whether that would work or not, who knows) ... but you spend your time trying to diss me, instead of offering SOLUTIONS. Go ahead, MM, use your noddle... give us a few ideas on how we can help kick-start Berkeley! (Please try to not mention something I already covered.)

What's a noddle?
Michael M has a noddle?

Michael, will you show me this alleged noddle of yours?

WC really took off after the earthquake took down the bridge, and Oakland had problems. Prima became well known... the city had extra money (a surplus) every damn year... one of the only cities in the US with that situation... the old parking garage had to be replaced due to the earthquake... they took out a funky little street parking area near Broadway Plaza, and put in that section that includes CA Pizza Kitchen... Coach .... that lovely fountain... they decided to upgrade Broadway Plaza ... WC actually has a lot of apartments, condos, and more diversity than folks think... the multiple summer events downtown also add a nice variety.

Mark is right, Walnut Creek has come a long way in the past few years.
I saw at least two black people last time I went to Broadway Plaza.

That CPK should be shut down, incidentally.  I had one of the worst, most overpriced meals ever there.  
*vomits*

I do a lot of shopping at Broadway Plaza, actually. They have really good shopping there, and a little man in a golf cart who will take to from the garage directly to the doorstep of Yogurt Park if you are nice to him.

Just not the most diverse place in the world, contrary to Mark's assertions.

Michael "The Dragon Slayer" M. says:

Mark: Walnut Creek has at least as many "hoops" as Berkeley and Oakland.

Also, the 'Creek is a bit more conservative than Berzerkley, it was a GOP stronghold for years. And the fact there's naive soccer moms in their Range Rovers and Siennas looking to max out their credit cards there on their kids.

Tsada "Fluff My Balls" K. says:

I do a lot of shopping at Broadway Plaza, actually. They have really good shopping there, and a little man in a golf cart who will take to from the garage directly to the doorstep of Yogurt Park if you are nice to him.


I love that little shuttle as well. I actually feel comfortable at Broadway Plaza than Sun Valley, its way less claustrophobic IMO.

Navi: I'm aware of that, but partisan politics at the City level just doesn't exist. At that level, conservative means we don't want change and liberal means we want change. It sounds like Emeryville and Walnut Creek took more liberal action than Berkeley or Oakland have.

True, but I feel the political tone for local government is set by the people who live there. And from what I've heard, just getting a liquor license in SF is upwards to $1 million.

The thing is that being a city manager is not a competition to have the biggest or bets retail stores or the most people come in from out of town. It's definitely not a popularity contest with people who live outside of the city. In a place like Berkeley where so much of the business is local, there isn't much motivation to have big parking structures and add to the traffic woes.
-----
Michael, I don't think having good parking in downtown would be for the benefit of out of town patrons. Berkeley is low density community, with predominantly single family houses. There is no way that public transit can solve the problem to bring Berkeley residents to downtown. Unfortunately cars are the only way to bring sizable number of local shoppers to downtown. And cars need places to park. In fact Berkeley's density probably on par with Walnut Creek's.

When stores are shutting down in droves and empty storefronts are the norm in a downtown area, then there is obviously something wrong with the public policy that has helped create such an environment. Driving stores out of business should not be the goal of the city government.

Berkeley is low density community, with predominantly single family houses. There is no way that public transit can solve the problem to bring Berkeley residents to downtown

Right now, AC Transit is bring Bus Rapid Transit to Berkeley, but AC Transit has a SHITTY image and there's no room for the precious Priuses and Insights that Bizerkeley holds oh so sacred. Broadway Plaza, on the other hand has a TON of parking around it.

The only decent record store in Castro anymore is that Streetlight, and it's really worked night and day to carry almost NOTHING for the past 3-4 years.  Therefore, Berkeley's not as bad as Castro.

Navi: Oh yea, I forgot about the Broadway Plaza garage. That makes 4 huge multi-level parking structures in downtown WC, and the Broadway Plaza on is free!

Why is Telegraph the kiss of death? Anyone?

Navi said:  
True, but I feel the political tone for local government is set by the people who live there. And from what I've heard, just getting a liquor license in SF is upwards to $1 million.
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That's a load of malarky.    The state charges $12K for the license, and through a broker you can expect to pay between 50 and 75K . That's a lot of $$, but nowhere near a million

All that's left of the Castro is the theater and about 200 dildo shops. I'm seeing more strollers by the day and elderly people doing sit ins at the BearBucks on 18th...

Ah Berkeley,

What's happening in Berkeley is a normal cycle that I've all seen play out *too many times*.   As someone previously said, Telegraph avenue is rife with holistic supply stores, incense shops, and t-shirt boutiques.  Last time I was there, it had the feel of a low-profile theme park that was centered around hippie culture.   Bluntly put, local populations don't support environments like this.  You need tourists to keep this shit alive.  At any rate, the hippie-culture theme park was a shtick that served Berkeley well for many years.   But like any tired old song-and-dance act, the shtick got old....

Hippie culture is a failed ethos, a dysfunctional relic, a social experiment of days-gone-by whose tenets of free love, psychedelic drug use, and protest-for-the-sake-of-protest that have long since been exposed as destructive, unrealistic, and not sustainable.   The old guard in Berkeley *clings* to that shit.....and the current crop of UCB students *just don't relate to it anymore*.   Furthermore,  the student body at Cal started out as a free-wheeling educational engine that thrived on optimism and pie-in-the-sky ideas.  Last time I was there, it seemed to have morphed into just another paper chase.....   Kids used to come from the valley to hang out here....To meet the minds, to see the craziness, and to experience the culture......but no more.   The student minds have started favoring pragmatism and logic over unbridled idealism, and the craziness....while it still exists.....has gone from edgy and interesting to stagnant and self-destructive.

The old guard has too firm a grip on Downtown Berkeley.  The only way to fix it is to leave it to it's own devices and let it wither.....after which a more realistic business climate will emerge.  Soon thereafter cycle will start anew.....

Why I stopped going to Telegraph? In the 70's and 80's, Cody's (and Computer Literacy in SJ) were by far the best place to get great computer science books. Their selection was awesome. I went there a lot and spent a lot. Eventually though I got tired of the panhandlers. I would go out of my way to change from my work clothes to grunge just so I would be less of a target and feel less out of place. Still it made me feel bad. Either I was heartless for not giving to those in "need" or resentful I was forking over my hard earned money for those that just "hung out" doing drugs. The parking was also always a pain. Once mega sized Barnes & Noble's started popping up everywhere with large computer sections, Telegraph just became too much to deal with. So sad. I have many fond memories hanging out on Telegraph during my formative years eating many a Kip burger.

Hey guys, in case you get hit by grandma & her reindeer... Merry Christmas!

You too, Poe! & Joe!

Mike, insightful and well put!

Les,  can understand your experiences. Yep, my brother drank many a pitcher at Kips while in college.

Kips.

*chuckle*

The City of Berkley made some planing decisions that resulted in a vital business district.
Emeryville

I work in Berkeley and it does kinda sadden me that there's not really much in"downtown" berkeley.  My office is in south west berkeley and I often forget that the downtown area even exists because there's nothing to pull me up there.

What really surprises me is how few nice shopping areas there are near campus. the fact that students do spend a lot usually drives business to campus areas - I'm thinking of Bloomington Indiana - a town where without the school it would be dead.  Similarly there's the Georgetown area of DC - granted that's DC and not Bezerkely.  Geez - even college park, MD (home to the fighting turtles) has a decent amont around it.  And in all 3 places have bad parking and not great public transport

I think it all comes back to attitude.  I'm not from around here so I don't know policies, etc - but it seems like berkeley isn;t reaching out to gt more.  The only areas of growth are 4th street, solano, and elmwood - and honestly I'm bored of over priced identical looking boutiques

Hmmm, sounds like Kip's was BETTER back then...

The last time the downtown in Berkeley was fairly vital was back in the late 60's early 70's.  Then , various neighborhood associations formed, basically to get political support , which turned grew into neighborhood merchant associations doing the same.  Then, the council members were elected by area, rather than at-large.  It all basically yanked all the interest into the neighborhoods and away from the downtown.  Hinks and Penney's were in downtown for decades, they died after awhile due to reasons I've illustrated.  The downtown basically didn't have a "neighborhood" to support it.

Fidel, bitches, FIDEL!