Hey guys,

We moved into our 1 bedroom, maybe 400 square foot apartment in April 2005. We've been paying PG&E anywhere from $100-$220 a month on electricity since we moved in. (started off at $90, crept up all year, flew up to to $200 willnilly towards 2006 and through 2007, and last month was $170. Everyone I talk to says they pay $20-$50 for whatever bedroom apartment they have, some of them all electric and some not.

Our landlord says it's because we have an all-electric apartment--including hot water heater for the shower, which he says is always on even if we aren't using it (duh). He just called to lecture me about this terrible crisis even though I grew up in San Diego and am well aware as CA has been sucked dry as long as I've been alive. But is there any possible way a 1 bdrm. apartment can use this much electricity?

The embarrassing part of this story is that it took so long for us to do anything about it in the first place. We moved from college dorms into this apartment together, and it was both our first time living on our own. Our hot water didn't work in the shower for the first 6 months we lived here...and we didn't call or say anything about it because we thought that's just how it was and didn't want to admit that we had chosen a bad deal to our parents & ourselves. Just when it started getting really cold in November 2005, the water stopped working entirely one day. When they came to fix it they found a broken electrical thing, and after that the hot water has worked (for roughly 10 minutes, after which it takes a few hours for it heat back up).

When I've explained this to the landlord (that our bill started off high but we didn't have hot water to begin with, so the heater can't be the sole cause), he has nothing to say except to talk more about the energy crisis.

So we finally called the offices one day to talk about how we were being charged so much and the woman who spoke with us (we have her name) told us this happened in another apartment and they were refunded the money. We sent an official letter with all of our bills attached about 3 months ago. The landlord just called to "follow-up" with me about it and say there's nothing else he can do, and by the way it's not true someone was refunded, and he cannot legally talk about their other tenants.

Also of note is when we first moved in about half of our sockets didn't work. We thought this was because the energy wasn't turned on. So I go to PG&E to "turn on" the apartment & the woman got this really weird look on her face when she looked at her computer (I assume pulling up information on the property/unit we have). She said "Don't tell your neighbors it wasn't turned on before!" ...implying somebody else had been paying our forebearer's electricity. When we got home the same sockets weren't working...it was a building problem that they fixed when we called.

Please tell me this is nuts. Any electricians out there? Anyone else pay this much?

I just siphon electricity out of my neighbor's Prius.

My apartment sounds roughly the same size as yours, but I have a gas heater for stove and water. My PG&E bill averages $35 - $40 per month. You are getting molested.

$14 a month for a studio little over 400 sq. ft......if i leave the temperature setting to 75 during the cold months....it'll jump to about $45 a month....

i have all electric appliance...stove, oven, dishwasher, heater, fan, etc...

My last bill was $122 - the highest I've EVER paid for a single month. We have all electric appliances as well, including the most inefficient electric dryer in existence, one electric forced air heater and one electric space heater.

My plans for cutting costs:
1) buy halogen bulbs for every light in the house
2) buy directional heat register to distribute heat better so we don't have to run the heater as long
3) harass landlord into getting a modern, energy efficient dryer
4) cook less ;)

did you call the electric company to ask what the bill has typically been in that apartment?

Yeah, our electric (& only) appliances are: 4 burner stove, microwave, refridgerator, television, 1 computer, 3 small electric heaters, and our unit's hot water heater. Eveything else is small.

We use the stove like 3-4 times a week.

I don't think we used it at all when we first moved in.

You pay for the hot water heater?  My landlord pays for water/garbage.  The water part includes the hot water heater.  Does every apt have their own hot water heater?

youre getting  robbed. i pay about that much for my parents poorly insulated 1200qt foot house in the coldest neighborhoods of sf.

My apartment has a little hot water heater closet just for my unit in the kitchen, so I am assuming everyone else in my building does, too. My bill is pretty cheap for a drafty old one bedroom.

We called PG&E a long time ago (before we called the landlord) and they told us it was a property management issue. I think they also said it seemed really high though.

The landlord said the only thing he can do at this point is send an electrician over to look at it, but after that there's nothing he can do. I also forgot to say that if you look at our meter, there's a wheel thing on it that spins really fast, constantly. None of the other meters for the building do that, and at least 8 other units have electric heat/water heaters. He told me it's because our hot water heater is on all the time. Seriously, wtf.

call PG&E. have them come out and investigate why it's so much money. do you get billed directly from them? or does your landlord bill you?

also, make sure you're unplugging all of those appliances (except the big ones) when you're not using them. but still, that sounds obscene.

when i lived in san diego...i paid about $500 a month for gas and electricty.....$130 a month for water....i call the electricity company to check out my meter...they said everything was fine.....i unplugged the frig....lived in complete darknes....guess what...my electricity bill went up to $600....i called again...explained that i unplugged the frig and most appliances...and lived in darkness....how does the bill go up?....they sent somebody again....they said everything was fine.....i was pissed...and decided to protest....i called and told them i'm cancelling my service....they were confused....the electricity company lady asked me if i was going to live with no electricity...i told the lady....YES....well..i lived with no electricity for 2 months...later on i heard about some refund for the outrageous electricity bills....i got a huge refund for the outrageous electricty bills i paid.....this is what happens when republicans take over....and necessaties like power and gas is privatized....

For a majority of homes, the two big eaters of energy are Heating/AC and your water heater.  If you want to save money, first try adjusting the tempature on those 2 items.

Your story sounds funny and sounds like you're getting screwed.  I would see if PG&E can come out and look at things for you and suggest way you can save energy.  Maybe you have an energy leak or maybe you're also paying for someone else energy too.

sounds like you may want to try the rent board and see if they can help out some how.
sfgov.org/site/rentboard…

chris - that's exactly what i was thinking - their either katie has an energy link or she's paying for other energy she's not using and somebody else in the building is.

also, katie, have you tried talking to the other tenants about this to see what they pay or if they've had the same problem?

when i lived in northbeach...it was an older apartment building....2 identical sized apartments...one apartment with one person living alone...another unit...2 guys with friends always over....multiple computers always on..tv always on...electric stoves used all the time....but the apartment with the person living alone was paying lot more for electricity....not just few dollars..but almost double the amount....

anyways..after some lengthy investigation..we found out...all the water heaters, garage power, outside lighting, stairway lighting and shared laundry room were all measure on her meter....after some talk with a electrician...they said that in most apartment building...one unit is like the "master unit" where all the community use electricity and misc. electricity for the building is metered to that unit....he said..you can tell which one is the "master unit" just by noticing how much faster the wheel is turning for that one unit in the apartment building....

"master unit".....meaning the unit that was meant for the landlord...

2BR 2BA with our own washer and dryer and dishwasher and electric heating, and our bill is ~$45/month

katie - if something like what hen described has been happening to you, you are probably due some compensation by your landlord. call PG&E immediately.

That sounds like a lot, but the fact that you have an all electric apartment is problematic. My electricity bill in my last all-electric apt in LA got out of hand from time to time.

Just as a comparison... my roommate and I pay anywhere from $60-$110 per month for our 1,700 sq ft apt, which is very old and very drafty. Our heating is (unfortunately)  electric but water heater, dryer, oven, etc are all gas. The higher end of the spectrum occurs during winter, but neither of us gets very cold, so we don't use the heat as much as most people might.

One thing you might want to do is make sure that none of the common areas (outside lights, stairwells, etc) are attached to your meter. The landlord needs to pay for that. I had a friend who found out that their laundry room light was attached to their electric bill, and the landlord ended up having to pay them back for years of use. PG&E should be able to determine this for you.

We haven't asked our neighrbos yet what they pay, but that's our next step...I guess we thought it was rude until now.

I mean it's a standard, no frills, one-bedroom SF apartment. We do not have a dishwasher, washer/dryer, or AC/Heating unit. We have 3 small electric heaters that we turn on room by room during those December-February cold months, and the first year we didn't turn them on at all. The price jumped a little last year when we turned them on during that time, but from like $190-$220, you know? Why is it already that high?

Thanks Suge & Chris, I'll follow up on those suggestions. What does an energy leak entail? It's interesting you say that because our refridgerator breaking is what brought this all back up and the reason the landlord called today after we hadn't heard from them for 3 months. Our fridge broke Saturday but the freezer & lights work, so it's a fridge problem not electric. Miguel, the nice maitenance  guy, came over to take a look yesterday and couldn't fix it. He came back over today to take a measurement since they will probably get a new fridge instead of fixing this one (no surprise there--it's like the cheapest fridge on the market at $199.99, we looked it up online).  When the woman in the office called to say he was coming back over she said he was going to check for an energy leak too (this is the same woman who let it slip about refunds). He came to take the measurements and was on his way out so I asked if he was going to check for an energy leak too. He just looked at me like he didn't know what I was talking about so I didn't know what else to ask.

We have a 550 sq ft 1 bedroom and have never seen the PG&E bill above $25.  You have a foundation for them to reassess your bill for sure.

katie, it's not at all rude to ask your neighbors for a general range of what their utilities are if you feel you're getting ripped off (of course if your neighbors are growing big pot farms in their living rooms or making meth or some other activity that might use a lot of energy, they may get mad, but other than that i think it's fine).

call PG&E now. schedule an appointment.

Hey Hen and Suge, I'm Katie's girlfriend.  We share the apartment.

Answers to your questions:

We asked a couple of our neighbors (with much larger units) what they pay.  The answers are generally anywhere from 30-60 bucks.

PG&E refuses to come out.  We've called them at least 10 times begging for their help.  They won't give us any past information regarding bills and they won't investigate without our landlord, who conveniently forgets to call and give consent.

Also of note, our bill amounts follow no real pattern.  For instance, when our broken heater was repaired and we started using it our bill didn't increase at all.  Not even a dime.  On the other hand, we went to Hawaii for 2 weeks and our bill jumped 40 dollars.  Completely bizarre...

We've long believed that we've got a "master unit" kind of situation on our hands.  Unfortunately the dicks that manage the property keep treating us like simple little ladies who lack even the barest of mathematical skills.  We are sort of at their mercy but clearly the high road isn't working.  We really appreciate all of your feedback, it's just more data to support what we've known has been wrong all along.

Thanks again!

I live in a one bedroom in an old building with basically no insulation. In the winter I have paid up to $100, but in the summer no more than $50. That also includes gas for my stove.  I live with someone who is home in the exact opposite hours that I am so that means there are ALWAYS lights, appliances, television, computers, etc. running. It sounds like you are paying too much.  

Also if you had an old, energy inefficient fridge, those sap up A LOT of energy.

Kate!  We totally asked Bud and Owen what they pay like two years ago.  Also, our bill didn't go up until February, after we'd been using the heater for three months.  Am I crazy?  Don't you remember?

Get in touch with the SF Tenants Union if your landlord keeps dicking you around sftu.org

go to the rent board. and isn't there some sort of public utilities board?

call PG&E, ask to speak with a supervisor. get names of every person you talk to. explain that you pay many times what your neighbors pay. continue calling them until you get somebody to listen to you. and write down every name who hasn't listened to you.

find out who your congressmen are and call them. and keep calling them. write them. write the newspaper. get those 'seven on your side' people to come out. sounds like you guys could have a ton of money coming your way.

good luck - this seems like such a hassle!

Tiffany and Katie:

Well if you live in the master unit, you can do something dickish along the lines of what Hen did, just turn off all your power.  That will probably affect the hole appartment building and i'm betting within a week after other people in the apartment building start complaining about lack of power, your issue will be resolved in no time.

chris c is an evil genius.

Suge, Chris, Other Jeff:

We're going to do every single thing you suggested.  Thank you for your help, seriously.  I think we've been doubting the validity of this situation for awhile.  More than anything we needed to know that we are, without a doubt, being completely, royally screwed.

Good luck you two.

Thanks Suge... and you're not the first to tell me that... MUHAHAHAHA!!!

here's a list of the PG&E officers. i can't find their email addresses, but they should be easy to find. when you call and ask for supervisors and they say they can't help you and you ask their names, ask for their email addresses too. tell them you want to make sure you copy them on an email you want to send to their PR person, the heads of their companies, the press and your congressmen about how PG&E has had reason to think that you've been getting ripped off for years but refuses to help. then you'll find out the format of the email addresses

peter a darbee, CEO
tom king (will become CEO on july 1)
nancy mcfadden, senior vice president, public affairs (get to her as soon as possible)
brian hertzog, spokesperson

here's their corporate headquarters

One Market, Spear Tower
Suite 2400
San Francisco,CA   94105
415-267-7000

I have a good sized one bedroom...I pay $45 a month, although I do have gas.  In my old studio, I paid $25-$30 a month.  In my old 4BR, the bill was $180 a month split amongst four people.  

I think you're being overcharged.

1500 sq ft house, gas stove, heater (hardly used) dryer, and water heater.

2 refrigerators, 4 tv's, my computer, (on when I'm home),

and a really hot attic, my bedroom, so a fan blows during the day, but only when I'm there.

Cost:  $250 per month.

bloomberg only lists their news number - try calling them. 1-415-973-5930. they're the people always putting out the 'pg&e cares about our customers and we're doing ______ to show it' news releases. ask for somebody in their PR department.

We have all electric in SMUD area.  I can't believe PG&E or whoever is your energy supplier could be screwing you that badly.

Sounds more like you have neighbors with gro-lights and they are stealing your juice.  However, you mentioned the electrical wiring issues, and it also sounds like your place is unsafe.  

My suggesting is to call landlord/tenant hotline, find out if you can have and electrician come out and deduct anything from your rent.  Otherwise, find out about moving because that place sounds like a fire hazard.

Oh yeah, and you can file complaints with the PUC if it turns out to be something weird with PG&E after all.

Your landlord is either very stupid or is trying to pull something over on you.  I can understand how a young person new to SF might not understand how to deal with this, or not know what a normal power bill is, but your landlord has enough experience to know something is wrong.  My guess, he doesn't care or maybe he's the one siphoning off your power.

I've got an 1,800 square foot 3 bedroom and pay about $150 a month; in another 1,800 square foot property with lots of windows and lights on all day it's similar.  $170 a month is a lot of power, about 2,500 kilowatts day in and day out.  That's like running two hair dryers without turning them off ever.  Maybe a non-working fridge or water heater could do that, but if so and if the boss supplied it and refuses to do anything about it, that's his problem.

Can you get to the meter?  One quick test is to unplug everything -- not just turn off, but unplug because things like the water heter, computer, TV, fridge, could still be running at some level.  If you have breaker switches turn them off.  Now look at the meter.  Is it still running?  If so somebody is using your power.  Plug things in one by one to see if something makes it spike.

Hen's and Chris' solution might work.  You can probably temporarily disconnect your power without calling PG&E.  If you can get to your meter you can turn your power off yourself.  Pull the lever.  If you see that someone keeps turning it back on they're the culprit.  Remove the circuit breaker or relay (if you can without electrocuting yourself).  Do they put in a new one?  Do they live in the dark too?  Ha ha ha.

Thanks everyone...this has been a huge help. As Tiff said above we really needed to hear that we weren't being unreasonable. I don't know why we didn't think to post here before. Anyways, we're going to follow up on all of the great suggestions.

Thank you again!

hmm, I pay $20-$30 a month for a 600 sqft place...  we have heat and hot water included though.

This can be a pain due to the shared hot water (I get burned in the shower anytime someone in my building flushes), but I can deal with to save a hundred a month!

i live in a 3 bedroom home,with family room,living room, 2 bathrooms, and a separate formal dining room...the most PG&E bill statement was around $200.00 (this is the time when inlaws from AZ was here last winter) but our normal bill is usually $60 to $75/month...we replaced our regular bulbs with those energy efficient ones and all our appliances are less than 4 years old and most of them are energy efficient and recently replaced our water heater and heater.

My apt bill is like nothing...i think around 20 a month, and our whole place is electric, no gas.

Otherwise i like to use the llama on a treadmill method :D

oh I have all electricity appliance...

i mean all electric appliance

$60/mo.  Live in a 2bd 2 bath townhouse in SJ.....