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legalize it!  pet owners are good people who have a right to housing

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  1. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    is there anything that can be done to stop the discrimination against pet owners?

    i understand that there are some irresponsible pet owners.

    i am not one.  i have several years of being a great tenant and no complaints from property management about my dog.  they have all said they would rent to me again.  isn't that enough???  i pay my bills, i leave my house as it was when i arrived.  i think there should be a law that if you have good pet references a landlord can not discriminate against you.

    my dog is not an option.  she is not a disposable toy.  she is part of my family and a reason for my good health as she gives me love and lowers my stress.  i would never give her up.

    are there any lawyers with power to change the housing laws in sf?  how can land lords be such pricks.?  ok if a pet owner causes a  problem, big deal, replace the carpets, paint the walls whatever thats what deposits are for.  most places need that kind of service every few years regardless of who or what has been in the apartment.  i don't think i should have to pay extra rent either.   like i said the wear and tear is no different when i live with or with my dog.  some people are clean some are not.

    and this a side note but my other cause is to provide showers to homeless people so they don't stink up the bus and they can feel better about themselves.  everyone should have a chance at self respect and getting back on their feet.

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  2. Post Hummus Y.
    • 127 friends
    • 13 reviews

    I've never seen such douchy landlords in the entire world than in San Francisco.

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  3. Sara J.
    • 521 friends
    • 576 reviews

    yeah it sucks how strict landlords are about pets. a pet deposit and good  pet references should be enough.

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  4. erik H.
    • 27 friends
    • 53 reviews

    it's a bitch jesse...

    there are too many irresponsible dog owners who have fucked it up for the rest of us.

    try looking for a place when you are a professional dog walker...
    i have been blessed, but some of my fellow walkers have had a really hard time finding a new place.

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  5. anna c.
    • 774 friends
    • 15 reviews

    It makes sense for landlords to be pet friendly as there are more dogs in SF than kids....Also, the shower thing, I'm totally for that. I mean, how can homeless people get a job if they can't be presentable?

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  6. Autumn K.
    • 490 friends
    • 1138 reviews

    Ummm...are you kidding? There's a huge difference between having a pet in a unit and not having a pet in a unit. The wear and tear is more extensive. I love animals and have had a cat in SF for years but I totally understand the extra deposit and extra rent- that's what happens when you choose to have a pet in SOMEONE ELSE'S home, on someone else's property. Buy your own place if you don't like playing by other people's rules.

    That being said, there is a lot of unfair rental practice in SF regarding skyrocketing rental prices and deposits for pet owners...

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  7. Autumn K.
    • 490 friends
    • 1138 reviews

    Oh, and my boyfriend, who owns a bunch of rental properties in SF, wants to know if you've ever had the pleasure of steam cleaning a urine-soaked carpet.

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  8. Lainie L.
    • 353 friends
    • 253 reviews

    The rental market is so tight in SF that landlords can be picky and choose to rent to whomever they want.  It totally sucks for pet owners and isn't fair at all but a lot of people aren't good pet tenants. . .and they ruin it for people who are.  That being said, Oakland seems to be more pet friendly in general.  Almost everyone I know here owns a pet and are renters so maybe check it out over here.   San Francisco rental market is simply not pet but especially not dog friendly.  

    My home was originally a no dog zone and I was lucky and blessed enough to have a landlord who understood that I couldn't give up my foster puppy. . .she let me keep her but I would have moved if she had said no. . . I love where I live but I love my pup more.  

    Portland is also extremely and awesomely a pet friendly town.

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  9. Lainie L.
    • 353 friends
    • 253 reviews

    oh and P.S. - yes, I think it would be great if homeless folks could get showers and clean clothes on a regular basis. .. Like open a shower and clean clothes shelter . . . because what's the point of the shower if they put back on their dirty clothes?  I know the city run shelters have showers but most people don't use them because their stuff gets stolen while they shower. . this told to me by my friend Ronnie who is a regular near my favorite TL restaurant.  I opened my trunk once and he saw that I had a bunch of wet wipes and asked me if he could have a package so he could "clean up" and that's when he told me he can't shower because his stuff gets stolen.  It'd be cool if they could hook up something like the DC public toilets but shower style.  Or like at truck stops where you use tokens and you get into a whole private bathroom with a shower, etc.

    I dunno.  It makes me sad.

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  11. Autumn K.
    • 490 friends
    • 1138 reviews

    Jesse "a likable chap" B. says:

    autumn your boyfriend is an example of how cheap landlords can be.  all they care is about profit, i take that back because i have met some really cool and kind land lords.   anyways your bf is cheap as hell, cleaning pee stained carpets instead replacing them.  use the deposit money for NEW carpets cheap prick
    *****************
    So you don't want to pay extra but landlords should pay to have the carpets replaced every time a pet owner moves out?? You're not making any sense at all. In fact, I am laughing so hard I can barely type this. I need a drink. That's rich, Jesse.

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  12. Starla D.
    • 610 friends
    • 347 reviews

    I agree that some pet owners are very irresponsible and would even give up their pets in certain difficult situations.
    Sandy is a very lucky dog to have such a loving and dedicated owner.
    Autumn,  I don't think Jesse is complaining about having to pay a pet deposit.  He is upset because some places wont even CONSIDER renting to him because he has a pet.

    Side note: Autumn's boyfriend rules and is far far from a cheap prick.
    Side note: Yes bums should have showers.
    Side note: I am not drunk
    Side note:  My cat is a dickhead but I love him anyway.

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  13. Autumn K.
    • 490 friends
    • 1138 reviews

    Starla, is it GHH yet?

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  14. Starla D.
    • 610 friends
    • 347 reviews

    i wish!! rawr!

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  15. Autumn K.
    • 490 friends
    • 1138 reviews

    Can we celebrate GHH on your cat urine-soaked floor while Gus and Monty watch???

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  16. matthew r.
    • 151 friends
    • 518 reviews

    when you figure in labor, a typical deposit will about cover getting a closet recarpeted; That deposit has to cover any other damage Colonel Fluffington might have done as well.

    And being a pet owner is a choice; one that's hard to undo but a choice nonetheless.

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  17. Nilu r.
    • 531 friends
    • 911 reviews

    Amen Jesse.

    yes to pets!

    yes to showers for smelly homeless people!  (and some people who are not homeless but smell anyway)

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  18. Tsada K.
    • 795 friends
    • 273 reviews

    I have no problem paying an extra pet deposit.  I'm just happy to have someone give my little guy a chance.  I think pet deposits are fair, just like additional deposits for people with bad credit.  Pets do represent a risk, but they deserve a chance!  Deposits seem like a reasonable compromise.

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  19. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    Looks like Jesse pissed off the local alphas.

    The fact of the matter is this...
    The landlord owns the property. They have a hard enough time (seemingly) figuring out how to properly maintain a property, that things like pets are just way too much for most of them to process.

    Frankly, I wouldn't trust any of the owner/ landlords in this town, too shady, too ignorant, and too lazy. I hate to say it, but I'd go with a rental company for the simple fact that they are professionals, and usually act as such. Interestingly, I've never had as many problems with a rental as when I came to the city. I've never had to argue with a landlord to fix a window, or a heater, or a ceiling.

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  20. Lance G.
    • 186 friends
    • 57 reviews

    I must have missed that particular article in the Constitution / Bill of rights.
    Pets?

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  21. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    Lance: They are useful as an emergency food source during catastrophes.

    Much like children, but usually cleaner, and nicer to be around.

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  22. Autumn K.
    • 490 friends
    • 1138 reviews

    Mmmm...kitten kebabs and Spaniel Thermador...

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  23. kari t.
    • 14 friends
    • 25 reviews

    I think you could try find the landlord and kiss ass big time.  That might work.   Be their friend! ...........or else good luck.....I have a pooch and thank god, my lease says no pets, but my LL was cool to let me keep my dog.  (of course my dog is tiny and housetrained....that might have something to do with it)

    I agree whole heartedly with OP though.  If i was a LL, I'd be totally cool with Ts with pets (with a reasonable deposit)

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  24. kari t.
    • 14 friends
    • 25 reviews

    oh yea.....but 420 *INSIDE* and whereever else, is A-okay!  

    (nothing against 420 but geez, the 'smoke" concept not fair) hehe

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  25. Lance G.
    • 186 friends
    • 57 reviews

    Thanks for clearing that up for me Dave.

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  26. Autumn K.
    • 490 friends
    • 1138 reviews

    Unless you piss all over the floor and tear up the carpet when you're stoned, Kari, there's no comparison.

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  27. matthew r.
    • 151 friends
    • 518 reviews

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Im…

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  28. kari t.
    • 14 friends
    • 25 reviews

    LOL oops.....my initlal post should've read:  .....and along the same line, I hate when LLs/owners say they won't rent to smokers at all, even if done outside only!  talk about discrimination!

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  29. Susy C.
    • 687 friends
    • 1772 reviews

    "
    are there any lawyers with power to change the housing laws in sf?  how can land lords be such pricks.?  ok if a pet owner causes a  problem, big deal, replace the carpets, paint the walls whatever thats what deposits are for."

    that security deposit you pay does NOT cover the cost of tearing out the carpet and putting in new carpetting. unless the landlords and properties you've been coming across get their carpet from the WalMart Martha Stewart collection or some shit.

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  30. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    Hope it helped, surprisingly any recipe the uses veal can be used for young humans of 1 to 2 years old.

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  31. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    ok to clarify i have no problem paying deposits.  i don't think i should pay extra on top of the regular monthly lease rate.   most of my friends apartments that have no pets have stained carpets.   like i said my previous landlords had ZERO complaints about my dog.

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  32. Susy C.
    • 687 friends
    • 1772 reviews

    you consider your dog a part of your family, then consider paying a little extra as a smaller roomie.

    case closed.

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  33. Tara R.
    • 310 friends
    • 326 reviews

    Word on the tough landlords. Especially unfair in a city with so many dogs. Me and the fella are going to have a hell of a time renting with our little Boston.

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  34. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    i just don't think a lot of you get it.  GET IT.  i leave an apartment in great shape and i have a dog.  I LEAVE AN APARTMENT IN GREAT SHAPE AND I HAVE A DOG.

    I am better or equal to you dogless person.  well i'm probably happier except when i go through the godamn sf rental market.  i could move somewhere else but to me sf rocks, i'm not ready to get off this ride.

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  35. Omid T.
    • 598 friends
    • 409 reviews

    [[i could move somewhere else but to me sf rocks, i'm not ready to get off this ride.]]

    Then shut the fuck up.  No, you don't get it. SHUT THE FUCK UP.

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  36. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    some got beef

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  37. Josh W.

    If you don't own the place, you have no right to say if you have a pet live there or not.  If you don't like it buy a place of your own.  If you can't afford that, live somewhere that you can afford.

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  38. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    i think i get it now.  thanks you all.  so land lords will just keep raising rents, turning good tenants away and then we will be forced to buy real estate and then the real estate market will start moving again.  well i would love to buy a nice flat in the city.  i should have thought of that sooner.    somehow this all makes great economic sense.  when i moved here you could rent a studio for 900 now the same unit 3 years later is 1200.  some day it will make sense to buy a home in sf.

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  39. SC ..
    • 20 friends
    • 70 reviews

    A lot of dog owners don't realize that when they leave for the day, their dog sits at home barking all day long annoying the hell out of the rest of the tenants.  The tenants who aren't dog lovers get irritated and look for a new place to live, without dogs.  So the landlord has to deal with tenants leaving and keeping the place rented up, which is more work for them and causes management issues.

    I mean really why do dog lovers not get it that some people think dogs are annoying?

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  40. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    What I think is funny is that so many kids cause more noise and leave the apartment in worse shape then a dog would. Yet, it's illegal to refuse to rent to someone because they have kids.

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  41. Annie F.
    • 43 friends
    • 144 reviews

    I think landlords should just let us do whatever we want with their property, fuck them for wanting me to pay their mortgage. I deserve to rent and shouldn't have to abide by anyone's rules.

    Oh....wait. If you hate it so much, fucking buy a place. I have a dog, I see the wear and tear he puts on my place (even though he is small and clean). I don't get the entitlement I see all over the place. Landlords buy investments. They want to protect their investments. By and large, renters don't take the best care of rentals (oh, the deposit will cover that). You can blame those folks for the stricter guidelines landlords have.

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  42. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    jesse, it blows right now. i am going through it too. i'm seriously considering a move to the east bay or potrero where they are more dog friendly - and tenant friendly. when this comes back to being a renters' market, those landlords will be sucking your dick to get a responsible tenant. now's not the time.

    SC, i have it on good authority (my landlord, his sons, my neighbors) that my dog doesn't make a sound all day - and he sleeps the majority of the day. the people across the street, however, have a dog that barks all day. even when they're home. but they own the place and they're multimillionaires, so it's ok. right? i mean, really, why do YOU not get that not all dogs are problems?

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  43. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    "What I think is funny is that so many kids cause more noise and leave the apartment in worse shape then a dog would. Yet, it's illegal to refuse to rent to someone because they have kids."

    shelly -  so true!

    also, i avoid places with carpeting. i don't want to vacuum.

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  44. Annie F.
    • 43 friends
    • 144 reviews

    SF is very tenant friendly. Do you know how hard it is to evict someone, even when they are destroying property/getting complaints/etc.? Very difficult.

    SF is good for tenants, not so good for landlords (most of whom know this when they buy investment property in the City, but do it anyway because they are apparently masochists.)

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  45. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    annie - try finding a place to rent right now - then get back to  me.

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  46. Kate B.
    • 32 friends
    • 337 reviews

    Even after cleaning and replacing a carpet and all curtains and washing the walls, it can take up to 7 years to really get rid of cat dander.  What is the problem with cat dander?  It is the most common allergy in the US.  Nevermind that the owner of the property could easily have cat allergies, but the apartment is not good for several years for the next tenant.  Sorry, but I have yet to hear about allergies to kids.

    It is the owners property and having a pet is a choice.  I have a pet snake and turtle.  These don't cause messes, however  some landlords might not want them in their property.  That is always one of th first things I bring up with a potential landlord.

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  47. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    and i agree - there ARE ridiculous tenant rights laws in this city and i'd never want to own an investment property. but it's not a renters' market right now. even people without pets will tell you that.

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  48. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    We have a massive security deposit on our house. We had to provide pet references. We have a yard and had to agree to leave the dogs out there during the day when we are not home (we have 3 and they LOVE the big yard). I had to kiss ass to get my dogs into our house.

    Hopefully they are as happy as we are because our lease is up at the end of the month and similar properties are going for $500 more a month. YUCK!!

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  49. SC ..
    • 20 friends
    • 70 reviews

    Suge- so what you want landlords to accept dogs on a case by case basis? And as for the howling dog across the street, neighbors complain about that all the time in the 'burbs.. call animal control and tell them that the dog is neglected/hungry/mistreated and they come by and fix the situation.

    I'm just saying I don't like living with dogs.  I think they're cute and fun to play with.. but there's a reason I don't have one.  Landlords know that there are a lot of people out there who feel the same way.

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  50. Annie F.
    • 43 friends
    • 144 reviews

    Suge K. says:

    annie - try finding a place to rent right now - then get back to  me.
    ==
    No, thanks. I scraped by for a few years and bought a place. I don't think I could ever afford to rent it out, but if I did, I would probably allow someone with a dog (I don't think a cat, though, because I have bad allergies and that stuff stays around for a long time). I do know, however, if I ever sell my place, that I will have to put in a lot more work because of the Luca than I would have without him.

    But, I don't think that landlords should HAVE to rent to folks with pets. Unfortunately, the bad pet owners have ruined that for everyone else.

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  51. Quinn S.
    • 326 friends
    • 630 reviews

    I hate to say this (kidding), but I agree with Autumn.  My folks own a 4-unit  apartment building.  It's their retirement fund.  Jesse, you can say they are being greedy and all about profit, but it's called an investment property for a reason.  It's like calling you a selfish asshole for expecting to be paid for going to work.

    Yeah, there are a lot of lousy landlords, but I don't think this is any worse than a friend who won't let you eat in their car.  It's their property, they aren't doing any harm to anyone and it's their prerogative to use it as they see fit.  They don't owe you shit and if your current place with a dog is so clean and serene, then just stay there.

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  52. Annie F.
    • 43 friends
    • 144 reviews

    (ps...I have neighbors whose dog barks all day long. I feel so sorry for that pooch! I see the owner at the bar all the time when I am out walking my dog...bad pet owner)

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  53. Omid T.
    • 598 friends
    • 409 reviews

    I want rent to be less than $1000 a month because I love my shitty job as a balloon artist and won't leave it. It's my lifestyle. But the SF market won't allow for it.  And I don't want to live in San Bruno.  Wah. Wah. Wah.

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  54. Ann H.
    • 13 friends
    • 18 reviews

    Doesn't it all come down to the fact that in the eyes of the law, pets are considered property?  There are some groups trying to push for legislation that will change pet "owners" to pet "guardians" but until something like that happens, pet owners don't receive much protection.

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  55. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    i never said landlords HAD to rent to people with dogs. they can do whatever the fuck they want. what i said was it's a tight rental market right now. go where it's a little looser - potrero, oakland, etc.  and soon enough (anyone remember 4 years ago?) all of those landlords who turned you down will be kicking themselves in the ass for turning down a responsible tenant.

    also, i've seen worse damage done to apartments by people than by dogs.

    AND, quinn, i'd be happy to stay where i am. unfortunately, my landlord is sick and his son is moving back from NYC to take care of him and is taking over my apartment. but yeah, it is THAT clean and serene. (well, it's clean after the cleaning lady leaves)

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  56. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    I'd prefer living near a dog than a small kid. Kids are dirty, loud, living dervishes of destruction, and usually not very well disciplined.

    I wish there were landlords that were limiting where people with kids could and could not rent. I prefer to keep them away from me.

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  57. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    Bottom line: they own it.  They make the rules.

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  58. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    my dog doesn't put paint on his fingers and run them along the wall.
    my dog doesn't color on the walls.
    my dog doesn't throw his toys across the room into walls.
    my dog doesn't try to fix himself something to eat and spill it all over the floor.

    i'm not anti-kid at all - and i'm not saying all kids do that.

    i'm saying save me the 'wear and tear' argument.

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  59. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    Dave -- 100% agree.

    I wish they had kid free communities. You know, like retirement communities for young people. You have to be over 18 to live there, can't have kids stay longer than 2 days, etc.

    Love it.

    Sorry to those of you with kids. But so many of them are a pain in my ass!

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  60. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    and i meant "spare me", not "save me"

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  61. Tray I.
    • 44 friends
    • 72 reviews

    *long time lurker, first time poster*

    This topic is an issue for all dog lovers. I found myself looking for a place earlier this year and just relenting to pay up the ass for a large complex that allows dogs.

    I would love a mandate that would allow for certain areas to be required to allow dogs (just a small area would be all I asked, so I know I can find a place for my pooch - I'd take richmond or sunset by the park even though it's far from work) but I understand that's getting close to a communistic mentality. Forcing a land owner to do something he would prefer not to seems like a little too much of government intervention. It would be nice if there were government housing for dog owner, but I think our state's debt is too much for such luxuries.

    What I don't understand is how san francisco has more dogs than children in this type of environment? Where are all the dog owners? Are they all paying the same crazy prices that I am? Or are they all home owners? Or are they illegally keeping a dog in their cheap apartment?

    Jess: if you're lucky enough to live in the city, I truly think it is possible to find a place, you just have to work at it. Walk around a neighborhood you want to live in and call all the rental signs you see. You'd be surprised how many places don't go on craigs because they know they'll find a good tenant without having to advertise. I found a place right next to my expensive ass apartment in a slightly better area that allowed dogs for less rent. I just wasn't living in the city at the time and to find these places would have been impossible. Also get on the phone and start calling. If the craig's ad doesn't state no dogs, call them up and see. It tedious work but it's possible. I've done this in the area that I was living in prior and you'd be surprised how many people are willing to see you and meet your dog and talk about your references. They are dog lovers as well. Good luck.

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  62. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    jesse, TI gives great advice.

    i'd also add that you should look at places on craigslist that don't actively forbid dogs (instead of only looking for ones that explicitly allow them). and go see the place - especially if you're meeting with the owner. THEN say that you have a dog - once the owner has met you and likes you.

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  63. Quinn S.
    • 326 friends
    • 630 reviews

    Eh Suge, I was asking Jesse

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  64. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    yeah, quinn, thanks. i can read. i was pointing out that there are reasons beyond your control that make it necessary for you to leave an apartment.

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  65. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    Shelly, maybe when I return to SF as an all conquering monolith of corporate america, I can start a community like that in SF. We'd even have special Zoloft-Aid for visiting kids, one glass a day might be enough to keep them quiet.

    I bet all the feel good laws here would crucify me though for wanting to keep kids out. It would cut down on the wear and tear that Suge listed.

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  66. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    It's also much easier to find an apartment for a small dog then a big one. These are people who don't understand that small  dogs can cause as much if not more damage than a big dogs depending on training.

    I have met many more small dogs who are ill behaved because owners can just pick them up instead of actually have to train them. Also, I have noticed a new trend of people with little dogs training them to use puppy pads in the house instead of teaching them to go outside to pee. (Not that it applies to anyone here but a general observation.)

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  67. Annie F.
    • 43 friends
    • 144 reviews

    TI - I think many are keeping pets illegally in their apartments. Which, if they get away with it, more power to them.

    I do remember, though, a thread here last year about a girl who moved into a place, signed a lease that said no dog, then got a dog. Then she was shocked and outraged that the landlord either asked her to fork over more $$ for a pet deposit or move. It was funny.

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  68. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    "Also, I have noticed a new trend of people with little dogs training them to use puppy pads in the house instead of teaching them to go outside to pee. (Not that it applies to anyone here but a general observation.)"

    That's disgusting.

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  69. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    How did this turn into another "Kids Are the Devil" thread?

    Oh, and as a caveat to what I said earlier, sometimes owners don't make the rules.  If the unit is part of an HOA, the HOA does.

    Also, the fact that I am a responsible pet owner doesn't make my cat's pee stink less.

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  70. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    my dog pees outside. only.

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  71. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    My cat pees in her litterbox.  Mostly.

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  72. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    "Also, the fact that I am a responsible pet owner doesn't make my cat's pee stink less."

    and the "fact" that someone is a "responsible" parent, doesn't mean their kid's pee stinks any less either.

    Or that their ear piercing shrieks are any more welcome.

    I just think it's bs that dog owners get shat upon, while kid owners get catered to, comparatively.

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  73. Joe J.
    • 103 friends
    • 0 reviews

    are the rights of dogs really being compared to children?  

    wow.

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  74. Blaise L.
    • 6 friends
    • 21 reviews

    when you own the roo/building/unit, you make the rules.  seriously

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  75. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    who said dogs had rights?

    i think the destruction caused by dogs is being compared to the destruction caused by children.

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  76. Dave M.
    • 81 friends
    • 163 reviews

    rl, I think I'm just admitting in my own roundabout manner that dogs are far superior to the slavering ankle biters known as children.

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  77. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    As I said, Blaise, as I said.

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  78. J A.
    • J A.
    • Sacramento, CA
    • 346 friends
    • 325 reviews

    Autumn's boyfriend is a nice man. Stop chewing on his ear before I tear you a new one.

    I have a cat, that's why I get hardwood flooring which is better for a pet-easier to clean!!!

    i wish I could get a dog, but a lot of places are unwilling, which does suck. It's all the idiots who ruin it for the rest of us. Minority rules.

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  79. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    So much kid hate.

    It's a good thing none of us were ever kids.

    Nobody should ever bring those horrible little creatures into the world.

    Whatcha all doing for Mother's Day?

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  80. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    i don't think the issue is about kids or dogs so much as people have a right to have shelter.  all you saying landlords can do whatever the fuck they want is completely untrue.  my degree is in city planning which i don't use but everything is to some degree controlled.  for example you can't use your home for certain businesses, you can't just add on as you like, there are architectual reveiews etc.  there are rent increase laws.  so just like driving on a freeway yes you can go where you want within guidlines, ie. speed limits etc.  in many cases cities provide incentives for certain developments like tax breaks.  i think that for the right to build in sf and own a home you should be supportive of the population that lives here.  i for one would rather have a dog than a kid.  yet i love this city for its tolerance and acceptance of so many types of people.  people can be such dickheads to each other that there are laws saying you can't discriminate against race, sex, age, etc.  shouldn't that be common sense??  apparently some people need help having manners.  we are all living in this city, we all moved here because we love diversity, lets allow people to get housing even if they are pet owners.  the city has a role to protect and serve it's citizens.  what if only rich people who could buy a house in sf were allowed here?  how fucking boring this place would be, a bunch of work-a-holics and trust fund kids, sf would be totally different.

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  81. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    "yet i love this city for its tolerance and acceptance of so many types of people."

    hahahahaha! oh, jesse, that's precious. this is san francisco - the land of "you have every right to believe whatever you want, so long as it's exactly what we believe".

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  82. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    I lived in an apartment for 6 years without a pet because they had a no pet policy.  I would have loved to have had a pet but understand it's the landlord's right as the property owner to say no to pets.

    But you're right.  An individual's choices should definitely become someone else's problem.  It's the American way.

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  83. Junglist S.
    • 624 friends
    • 147 reviews

    sucks to be you.

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  84. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    jesse -  more proof that now is just a shitty time to rent... 4 years ago, you barely saw any ads up without photos. now it's about half and half. landlords know they don't need to put in a lot of effort because there's so much demand for rental units right now.

    so you go see a bunch of places based on the hope that they might be ok. if i see one more shitty apartment, i'm going to cry. or scream.

    what's your budget? where do you want to live?

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  85. Baobao B.
    • 0 friends
    • 5 reviews

    I like pet owners and usually people have lots of love for nature and big hearts can extend that love to pets .  The only problem I had was with irresponsible homeless people who try to act like pet owners. They stink and they refuse bath to their pets too.    

    It's not making sense that San Francisco  rental market is open to stinky homeless people and tight to really nice pet owners.   Maybe people are simply too nice to allow a small number of stinky homeless people to own San Francisco as well as  allow homeless cats to give pet owners in general a bad name.

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  86. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    my budget idealy would be $700 / month with one or 2 cool roommates.  i can afford $1400 / month and think i might go that route and get a better place with washer/dryer.  

    "But you're right.  An individual's choices should definitely become someone else's problem.  It's the American way."  this is so simplistic it is what i'm talking about.  as i've stated my dog and i are not a problem and we have great references.  let's face it, as a landlord sometimes you get good tenants sometimes bad.  you might end up with a coke head who's tweaking all night and keeping the neighbors up or you might end up with perfect little ms sunshine.  stop putting me in a box, use your intuition about people, i don't want to damage your investment.  stop labeling all pet owners as "a problem" that is totally untrue and i bet statistically you will find that the general population of renters on a scale of good to bad is the same whether they have a pet or not.

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  87. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    No one ever said living in the City would grant you so many rights or cheap housing.  If you choose to live there, you should then accept the consequences of paying more for the luxuries that you desire.  Insisting that all rentals allow pets, is ludicrous.  It's the property owner's right to decide whether to have pets or not on their premises.  You don't like it?  Buy your own home.  Rentals in SF are for those that can afford it.  Can't?  Move to the burbs.  On that note, want to live in Livermore?  I have a 4BR/3BA home that's available...

    Side note:  do rentees expect to receive all their deposit (security/pet) back if they steam clean the carpets?

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  88. SC ..
    • 20 friends
    • 70 reviews

    Jeff- does your 4br/3ba smell like dog?

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  89. This Yelper's account has been closed.
  90. Chris C.
    • 45 friends
    • 549 reviews

    Yes Pet Owners have every right to housing just like home owners have every right to determine who they are going to rent to.

    If you want to set the rules, then become a home owner.

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  91. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    i think that since so many of you aren't in the position, you don't know the rage that ensues once you're told a dog is ok... and then you find out that the scumbag wants to charge you $400 EVERY MONTH more for your dog.

    i don't expect every place to accommodate my dog. but what's going on in the market right now is fucking ridiculous.

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  92. Sarah H.
    • 7 friends
    • 67 reviews

    I own a dog, I like my dog, I'm very very hesitate to rent to pet owners because if its a dog: will it bark like my neighbor's dog does until it drives the other tenants batty? will it bite another tenant and I'll get sued? and no matter what anyone says, dogs are not all that great for an apartment dweller.  Why would you own a dog if you live in an apartment?  I don't get it.  and if its a cat (or two or three), many people are allergic to them, will the other tenants get sick because of the cat, and the cat litter in the garbage is just nasty, especially when tenants decide to just dump it whole sale down the shoot... yes, that happens.  So, I have rented to pet owners, and I give the owner and the pet the once over and decide based on my best guess at how responsible the tenant seems and  how nice the pet.  I would NEVER rent to anyone who owned a big dog, and I won't rent to apparently crazy cat lovers, who think cats are better than people.

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  93. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    " Why would you own a dog if you live in an apartment?  I don't get it. "

    wow, sarah. really? you see, in san francisco, there are these things called parks. and some people walk their dogs in them. and yeah, don't rent to anyone with a big dog. because big dogs are so vicious. and insecure. so they're so likely to bite out of fear. yeah.

    really? you have a dog? i don't know that you should be allowed to.

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  94. Sarah H.
    • 7 friends
    • 67 reviews

    Suge K.... you will notice that I said I have in fact rented to pet owners, but I'm not going to rent to someone JUST because they own a pet.  I like dogs, I even like big dogs, just not in an apartment building.  The other tenants have rights TOO, you know?
    And I'm not going to rent to people who seem to have no real clue that a pet is not something to inflict on others.

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  95. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    sarah - you will notice that i only addressed the ridiculous things you said - i didn't ANYWHERE say that everyone should rent to people with dogs

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  96. Sarah H.
    • 7 friends
    • 67 reviews

    And as far as children go, you can't even ASK a potential tenant if their kids are house trained, or if they are screamers, or if they are going to jump up and down on the floor and make the downstairs tenant's life hell, or will cry all night every night and make the other tenants want to kill themselves.  That's the thing about renting, you are subjecting the other tenants to your life, and landlords need to make some decisions about that, or we get accused of renting to maniacs on purpose.

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  97. CK S.
    • CK S.
    • San Francisco, CA
    • 0 friends
    • 0 reviews

    your claim that  "pet owners are good people who have a right to housing" is not accurate. Perhaps you meant to write "most pet owners are good people who have a right to housing". It's well documented that not all pet owners take good care of their animals and their neighbors. You ought to be out there working with the idiots that have fighting breeds off leashes in parks or around the home, terrorizing neighborhoods, other pet owners included.

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  98. Sarah H.
    • 7 friends
    • 67 reviews

    Suge K.. the truth for me is, I really don't understand renters who want dogs, that's just my take on it.  When I rented (and yes landlords have most likely been renters at one time or another) I did have a cat, but I held off the dog until I owned my own home because I knew that no matter what, it would bark and disturb the other tenants.  I think that's called common sense.

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  99. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    oh really? common sense? do you know anything about dogs? anything at all? many dogs ONLY bark when somebody is at the door. mine does. and it doesn't disturb the other tenants.

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  100. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    also, you said that you don't understand why people want dogs in apartments. which clarifies t hat you know very little about dogs. many make great apartment dogs - and anyone with basic knowledge would know that.

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  101. CK S.
    • CK S.
    • San Francisco, CA
    • 0 friends
    • 0 reviews

    I agree somewhat. I wouldn't have a dog unless I had some space for it to run free all day. A big yard would be great for a pooch. That said I think responsible pet owners should be able to have a pooch. It's the idiots who ruin it and set otherwise agreeable people against pet owners in general.

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  1. This Yelper's account has been closed.
  2. Blaise L.
    • 6 friends
    • 21 reviews

    bud--amen

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  3. Cris B.
    • 95 friends
    • 131 reviews

    Discrimination laws SHOULD include pet owners.  

    Again, what a wonderful world we would live in if people were ALLOWED to have pets in their home.  Lot more happy people, lot more happy (and less euthanized) pets.  Its real simple solution to many existing problems, but some people just don't get it.  

    May be off the topic...  but when taking my BIG dog to the parks in SF, I hear from a lot of the dogless people who frequent the parks where all the doggies play.  They always commit that they notice SF as being one of the most Dog Friendly cities.  These people don't seem to be put off by this, quite the contrary.  And most of these dogless people make it a point to come to these parks because they love playing with the doggies.

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  4. Cris B.
    • 95 friends
    • 131 reviews

    And Suge...  Bless you for trying to enlighten the few less educated minds.  Lecture on!  ;^)

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  5. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    cris - it was a futile attempt at education.

    i tie my dog up in front of stores and restaurants (spare me the lecture - i know what's ok with for dog and what's not a lot better than you do) and whenever i come out, he is surrounded by people petting him. sometimes they apologize and i laugh and tell them to keep going!

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  6. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    my point with that was that you can't do that with a lot of small dogs.

    yeah, my dog sure hates apartment living. poor mistreated thing!

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  8. Cris B.
    • 95 friends
    • 131 reviews

    No lecture here... I do the same.  And most of the stores I frequent in my neighborhood LOVE my dog, and usually allow her to be tied up in their store as opposed to her being out on the street.  And they too do the same, that is she's surrounded by the store employees, customers, etc., giving her pets, treats, etc.

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  9. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    i still don't think that people should be forced to rent to people with pets. i think it should be a free market thing. and it was a much different situation 4 years ago than it is now. 4 years ago i had people begging me to move into their apartments, making all sorts of deals. now it's tough (though i did have people call me and offer me a discount).

    and while it does suck that people are so stupid and narrow minded, but i don't think legislation is the answer.

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  10. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    i also think i should learn to construct sentences  properly and i wish i could take the "but" out of my last sentence.

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  11. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    i don't understand these fake property owners.  the so called risk of offering housing to a dog owner is so bs.  everyone you rent to can be a risk with or without dog.

    honestly can you say that between all your friends is a dog owners house different in condition than your other friends?  in my case some people are clean and some not, it really doesn't matter whether they have a pet.

    i think if prices keep going up and middle class dies and there is just the haves and have nots we will just have to have another revolution and put all these so called kings on the chopping block, like in the good old days of europe.  greedy kings lose their heads!

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  12. Tiffinie T.
    • 470 friends
    • 201 reviews

    I moved here with my cat in '94 and got really lucky to have found a place that accepted pets.

    Since then, I've moved what? 3 times? And while it was challenging to find a place that would accept my cat, I did my best to make it easier for potential landlords to get to know my pet by providing a Pet Resume as well as personal references.

    It may sound cheesy, but I've discovered that once the landlords saw my informative (not to mention creative & humorous) Pet Packet that I'd combine with my rental application, it made it all the more easier for us to find a great place to live.

    Try it... it's times like this that one needs to be more creative to get the job done :)

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  14. Sharon J.
    • 144 friends
    • 0 reviews

    I agree with Bud.
    People believing there dog is their son/daughter is very recent. Dogs are legally considered property. Like I said, the best thing an owner can do is have a doggy resume with good references. I've been able to find landlords who will rent to me with Missy. It's hard, but there are landlords out there who will rent to pet owners.

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  15. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    on a positive note, i think i found a place to live. even with my "big dangerous shouldn't be in an apartment how can you be so irresponsible that thing could eat a child for breakfast" dog.

    and, as it turns out, the owner used to have a mastiff.

    some people aren't assholes.

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  16. Tiffinie T.
    • 470 friends
    • 201 reviews

    i didn't know you had a mastiff, suge!!

    they are the sweetest (think-they're-tiny-lap-dogs) ever! ...up there with boxers and am staff terriors, only more meaty :)

    ((sigh)) i miss having a doggie. :(

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  17. Sharon J.
    • 144 friends
    • 0 reviews

    If I can find a place with an American Pit Bull Terrier, then anyone can find a place.

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  18. Cris B.
    • 95 friends
    • 131 reviews

    Not arguing the legal aspect of what one can do with their property...  as its pointless and there is not legal bases...  so let me recanter my statement and rather put an emphasis on my ideology...

    what a wonderful world we would live in if people had MORE OPTIONs available to them in ALLOWING them to have pets in their home.  Lot more happy people, lot more happy (and less euthanized) pets.  Its simple solution to many existing problems... but alas, some people don't get it.

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  19. Andy F.
    • 373 friends
    • 0 reviews

    my boys best friend in Chicago was a mastiff..His name is Kafka and he's the best!

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  20. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    he's a mix - mastiff and newfoundland. he only looks like a big black lab

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  21. Tiffinie T.
    • 470 friends
    • 201 reviews

    sweet :)

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  22. chandra g.
    • 53 friends
    • 25 reviews

    I agree. Lots of legislation going on in SF in regards to off-leash parks and what not. I don't understand what the huge problem is. I really don't. I think people in SF are hyper-critical about EVERYTHING. everyone has such strong opinions and are so rigid. meh.

    my apt allows dogs...I'm never ever leaving, that is unless my apt building turns into TICs and I get evicted.

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  23. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    i walk through my very quiet, very residential neighborhood with no leash on my dog. the cops drive by and wave at me.

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  24. brooksley o.
    • 4 friends
    • 1 review

    Suge is the bestest and sweetest!
    The misunderstanding of large breed dogs is ridiculous.  They are often more mellow, quieter, and easy going.  I grew up As someone who has a dog and two cats, I also know that I made a choice to live with pets. As a pet owner, you have to be prepared for the financial responsibility which includes unexpected vet bills, extra security deposits, and clean-up costs. Pets are usually a luxury, not a necessity (and, yes, I know there are, and support the concept of, therapy pets.  If your pet is a therapy pet, though, then get it officially recognized as such.)
    Pets CAN cause a huge amount of damage.  Landlords have the right to avoid that or charge a larger deposit. In saying everyone is a risk, that's true.  But landlords renting to pet owners are dealing with a known large, possibly greater, risk.
    Yes, it sucks to pay more if you have pets.  But it is reasonable. Most desireable things are a trade-off.  We want to live in the Bay Area, so we pay more for rent and stuff ourselves into apartments happily!
    What's with being such a complainty-pants?

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  25. Sharon J.
    • 144 friends
    • 0 reviews

    Like Anna said the whole problem goes back to irresponsible owners. A few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us.

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  26. Shane P.
    • 98 friends
    • 105 reviews

    What it basically comes down to...

    You're renting, it is NOT your residence, therefore one must follow rules set about by each landlord.  Finding a place to rent regardless of having a pet or not is just hell period.  Tenants are very lucky to have AMAZING guidelines that protect them in times of distress.  If one does not like how landlords rent their property(s), then by all means, look elsewhere.

    I've had a cat and lived with a dog for several years and have had no issues.  I've paid the extra pet deposit with no issue.  That deposit is there in case said animal does any damage to the property.  The initial security deposit is there for any damage a human being does.  Not only that, deposits here in SF are relatively cheap and do not cover much if a tenant blatantly disregards the landlords property.

    It is what it is in SF, if you don't like it....well you know.

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  27. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    aw, brooksley is the bestest and sweetest!

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  28. chandra g.
    • 53 friends
    • 25 reviews

    WORD!

    05/07/2008 Suge K. says:

    my dog doesn't put paint on his fingers and run them along the wall.
    my dog doesn't color on the walls.
    my dog doesn't throw his toys across the room into walls.
    my dog doesn't try to fix himself something to eat and spill it all over the floor.

    i'm not anti-kid at all - and i'm not saying all kids do that.

    i'm saying save me the 'wear and tear' argument.

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  29. brooksley o.
    • 4 friends
    • 1 review

    Oh, suge, I miss you!!!!! I will swing by the 540 one of these nights to say hi.

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  30. Baobao B.
    • 0 friends
    • 5 reviews

    My cousin has a mastiff .  She is married to a guy in Chicago too.

    Bud "Always missing the point" E. says:

    "Being Irish American or African American or Straight or Gay or Abled or Differently Abled are not choices.  Having a pet is a choice."

    Well said.  It's not fair to discriminate anyone because she is a woman or a black or yellow or purple as long as she is a person.   If she can prove she is nice, clean , honest, decent,  responsible and has good references,  then she shouldn't be discriminated against.  It's not ethical or even legal.  

    Now the question is simply why the pets don't have the same rights as a person?  You are a person.  I'm a person too.  While we are entitled to our basic constitutional rights, are the  other beings merely properties and objects?

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  31. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    you'll have to let me know when - i'm not there much anymore. but i'll come by with the boy if you're going to be there!

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  32. chandra g.
    • 53 friends
    • 25 reviews

    having a pet is 49 minutes ago Bud "Always missing the point" E. says:

    Being Irish American or African American or Straight or Gay or Abled or Differently Abled are not choices.  Having a pet is a choice.  Choosing to have a pet should not give the pet owner a right to tell me what I can and can't do with my property, if I had property to rent.

    Should and want are different things that shouldn't get mixed.  I understand that you want to have a law that says that I can't say no to a potential renter because they have a pet.  You might be the perfect tenant with the perfect pet, but it often doesn't play out that way and the burden unduly will end up on the shoulders of the nice landlord who gave a pet owner a chance.

    As much as having a pet is a choice, so should it be the choice of the property owner as to the use of the property.  I don't see why anyone has a right to live in my property (again, if I had any) let alone dictate the conditions of use of my property

    ---

    spare me! riding a bike is a choice, do you bring your bike into the house, tracking dirt and mud in? do you use extra strong trashbags? if not...that's a bad choice! you'll get garbage water on the floor. Do you wear your shoes in the house? BAD CHOICE! you'll get grime all over the floor.

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  33. brooksley o.
    • 4 friends
    • 1 review

    Oh, one point I hate to bring up : There are people out there who aren't great pet owners or aren't prepared maturity-wise to take care of pets.  There's actually a bunch.  When I was bartending, I'd hear people talking about their dogs eating their drugs at home and getting sick or spending 10+ hours out working and partying when they have a puppy at home.  Most people (and all the 540 regulars :) ) are great dog owners, but the ones who aren't, beyond being douchebags in general, can cause a ton of damage to a place.

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  34. brooksley o.
    • 4 friends
    • 1 review

    Suge- Im not there much either.  Maybe we can make a little plan for a sunday barbque or trivia meet up in the next few weeks....

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  36. chandra g.
    • 53 friends
    • 25 reviews

    1 minute ago brooksley o. says:

    Oh, one point I hate to bring up : There are people out there who aren't great pet owners or aren't prepared maturity-wise to take care of pets.  There's actually a bunch.  When I was bartending, I'd hear people talking about their dogs eating their drugs at home and getting sick or spending 10+ hours out working and partying when they have a puppy at home.  Most people (and all the 540 regulars :) ) are great dog owners, but the ones who aren't, beyond being douchebags in general, can cause a ton of damage to a place.

    ---

    true true...it applies to shitty parents as well. people suck...it just makes it worse if they have pets or kids

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  37. Shane P.
    • 98 friends
    • 105 reviews

    I'm there with ya brooksley o..  I had a roommate who wanted a dog and adopted one from Rocket Dog.  My roommate was always out late at night and would only walk the dog twice a day and feed him.  When my roommate was home on weekends, it was the same thing.  2 walks a day and food.  Mind you, he owned a terrier that needed to be ran and had energy coming out of the wa-zoo.  And he wondered why he's pooch was peeing, barking, biting and tearing up his bedroom when he wasn't home.

    Where's my roommate now?  In NYC.  Where's his pooch...down in LA with his parents who have a large backyard and the ability to care for a dog of this breed.

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  38. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    my dog is not a choice, she came into my life as many things do through chance, luck, karma.  she is my anit-drug,  prozac, effexor, happy pill alternative.  without her i might turn into a mean stressed out person.  the only choice i have is to be good to her or abandon her to a shelter where she might get put down.  is that a choice?  i love my dog.

    and again for those who don't know about home ownership you actually can't do anything you want with your property.  it is very regulated from how tall to how you use it is all controlled by someone else, primarily city government.  so let's drop that delusion from this conversation.

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  39. chandra g.
    • 53 friends
    • 25 reviews

    Shane,

    sounds like someone I know....(and live with. minus the moving to NY part) we both have dogs...she shouldn't. a perfect example of someone that isn't ready for a dog. I'm sure when she/we  moves out we won't see a penny of our deposit

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  40. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    sounds like a plan, brooksley!

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  41. Shane P.
    • 98 friends
    • 105 reviews

    Home ownership regulated by city government....yes.  But we're talking about pets here, not how tall one's building is, or what color they choose to paint their house.  You started this converstation about pets and pets only.

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  42. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    Jesse, no you can't do anything you want with your property as the owner.  There are already restrictions on many properties, so is it fair to put more restrictions on property?  What exactly would be the point of owning when renters have more rights than owners?

    Yes, it would be NICE if owners would be more pet-friendly to the extent that their property did not have any restrictions on housing pets (mine does), but that is ultimately up to the individual owner and no one else.

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  43. Baobao B.
    • 0 friends
    • 5 reviews

    Sharon "Buy a Real Dog, Real Rescue" J. says:

    "Like Anna said the whole problem goes back to irresponsible owners. A few bad apples ruin it for the rest of us."

    Shouldn't this be a case by case situation.  I'm a nice woman.  Most women in SF are nice and sweet.  There are a few homeless "women" who start street fights or rub the banks. There are homeless guys who rub the banks too.  In any city there are always good people and bad people and even criminals.   Should all the banks stop doing business with women as long as she is a woman?

    When an individual is not evaluated and treated as an individual, or at least as a person, discrimination sadly happens among us.

    Even if we really believe dogs are properties rather than human beings and don't have the equal rights as us.  Can we at least process it on a case by case basis?  San Francisco claims to be one of the most liberal cities in the country.  Does the whole town really think a dog is a piece of property, rather than a being with feelings?

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  44. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    actually the city could make it easier for pet owners if they wanted to.  if they can tell you what color to paint your house...

    i think the pet resume idea rocks congrats to those who have thought of that.  i am also thinking about registering my dog as a a service animal because she really does provide a lot more than a therapist or drugs could for me.

    before i had a dog i would have thought all this bogus.  in fact i didn't even want a dog when i started taking care of sandy and never realized all the amazing benefits of having her in my life.  animals i would say are a necessity in society and help A LOT of people through anxiety, lonliness, depression and a lot of other illnesses.

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  45. chandra g.
    • 53 friends
    • 25 reviews

    Pet resumes have been around for a while...when I moved here in 2000 and signed up for CitiApartments, the pet resume was included in all the paperwork needed to apply for an apt. The thing is...LL that don't rent to pet owners don't care if you have a pet resume or not...the only chance a pet resume will really work for you is if you have a medium/large sized dog and the rental lists "small dogs only" you might be able to squeak by.

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  46. brooksley o.
    • 4 friends
    • 1 review

    Suge - yes, yes, Ill send you a message.  I can't this weekend because I'm hanging out with my fabulous mama, but maybe next weekend!
    Shane - yeah, exactly! Im happy the dogs at the parents' at least.

    Oh, jesse. It's superclear that you love your dog and the comfort that she provides.  That's awesome that you have such a strong bond. But, really, deciding to have a dog is a choice. It actually makes me a little nervous that you see it as something that just happened because pets take tons of planning and care and responsibility.

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  47. chandra g.
    • 53 friends
    • 25 reviews

    this whole "choice" arguement is bugging me. People make all kinds of bad choices but aren't restricted from renting apts. A friend of mine that was a landlord (briefly) said he was amazed by the damage high heeled shoes created. the destroy hardwood floors more so then dragging furniture or the scuffs dog claws create. just sayin. daily life fucks up apartments.

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  48. Annie F.
    • 43 friends
    • 144 reviews

    Jessie, it is obvious no matter what anyone says, you think landlords are teh evil and you should have a right to have your dog regardless of what the property owner thinks. To which I still say, you are incorrect. Aside from making the choice to have a dog (just like people who say kids "just happened," they made a choice, too), you made the choice to live in SF. A city that is already incredibly tenant friendly.

    It is often not the gov't in SF that makes the regulations, either, it is the HOA/community group that imposes various guidelines. The owner buys into these places knowing the guidelines are in place. Similarly, owners can make guidelines, and, as a renter, you are renting knowing these guidelines are in place.

    And, finally, blame the stupid pet owners for the predicament. Blame people like the ones who let their dogs attack and kill a neighbor. They are the root cause more than landlords.

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  49. Pistol Packin' M.
    • 56 friends
    • 0 reviews

    As a person who is looking for a place w/ dog in tow...

    Jesse: abandon all hope in SF and go to the east bay....just don't take any of the places I'm looking at or I'll cut you.

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  50. Cris B.
    • 95 friends
    • 131 reviews

    I have to kind of agree with Annie on her last statement, as she is on point.

    Being a student of the law and just completing my final (which was to Defend an Owner of a Dog who bit a 5 yr old child).  I found out so many things about the California One Bite Rule.  I never realized the liability of ownership.  Another thing I found in my research is that Landlords, as property owners, can be brought in to law suits as co-defendants.  Based on the fact that they owned the property and were negligent in allowing certain tenants to have pets on the premises.  Regardless of the animal being vicious v. well-tempered.

    Pretty crazy, this one bite rule which is in most states.  I found that there is not one case in which a defendant was victorious!!!!  Trust me on this, my research was HELL!

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  51. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    Cris, would having an indemnification clause in the Lease Agreement indemnifying the owner/landlord, be advisable?

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  52. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    i made a deposit on a place last night.

    tell the neighbors to lock up their children - my monster will eat them!

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  53. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    what saddens me about this whole thread is how un-compassionate people really are.  i am just a young man and a dog trying to find a nice place to live.  the fact that people are actually contesting my plight is really sad.  yeah let's use the freak accident of dog biting child as a reason to exclude dogs.  that happens like 1% of the time, how that can be justification to exclude a whole population of people baffles me.  it's like saying there was an accident on the freeway so now i'm not going to drive on the freeway.  geeeezus.  where do you creepy people come from?

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  54. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    i also think its sad that a landlord would be sued for a freak accident involving a tenant.  i don't know how those cases end but i would hope that the court of law would see a separation between the tenant and the owner and just prosecute the actual offending party.

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  55. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    Chris -- This is what scares me when I take my guys to the dog park. It's for the dogs right? But people let their little ones run around screaming. What do dogs do? Chase them and bite at their shirts to herd them and get them to stop running, it's a game. Child cries, parents get upset, etc.

    Or, my dogs aren't use to kids. They have never been around them. What happens if a child hits my dog or pulls a ball out of it's mouth or taunts it with a toy and the dog jumps or nips at him in play?

    It's going to be my ass in court, not the parent of the child that brought him in to play with all the puppies without teaching them how to behave around strange dogs.

    That really irks me. My dog isn't allowed in children's parks.

    I just keep a close eye on my dogs and not let me near the kid. If the kid is bad, we leave.

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  56. Blaise L.
    • 6 friends
    • 21 reviews

    im creepy and uncompassionate because i basically said it is the owners right not to rent to dog owners?

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  57. Blaise L.
    • 6 friends
    • 21 reviews

    uncompasionate would have been to say something like why spend my tax dollars on helping the homeless stay clean and smell nice.

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  58. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    Blaise L. says:

    im creepy and uncompassionate because i basically said it is the owners right not to rent to dog owners?
    -----
    I think we're all upset because landlords put us all into the same category and make rules which make no sense if you know anything about dogs (i.e. the 20 lb rule) or dog behavior. They should view it on a case by case basis. It's a stereotype, plane and simple. But because it's against an animal, considered property, it's all suppose to be "OK"?

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  59. Blaise L.
    • 6 friends
    • 21 reviews

    i'm upset too. "creepy" "uncompassionate" .  not usually words to describe me.

    also, it sounds like some people have rentals with dogs and say their landlords are nice or great about it.  so please don't lump all landlords together and i wont lump all dog owners together.

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  60. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    Jesse, instead of crying about the outrage that landlords, that don't allow pets in the first place, don't want to rent to you, have you actually tried to do ANYTHING about it through the City.  Get up off your ass and away from the computer and go do something about it.  You only want to hear what you want to hear, and hearing that property owners have every right to do what they want with the use of their property, is not one of them...so give it up.

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  61. Blaise L.
    • 6 friends
    • 21 reviews

    shelly, that a 75 westpahlia? thats what i had too for years

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  62. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    hey blaise -- it's a 76. Wish it was a 75 then it wouldn't have to pass smog ;(

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  63. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    It's not stereotypical.  If an apartment has tenants in it, each tenant has rights.  What if one tenant is allergic to dogs/cats?  Is it right to allow the pet causing the allergy to stay?  Bottom line is, the property owner wants to protect his/her interest, and they have a right to that.

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  64. Chris C.
    • 45 friends
    • 549 reviews

    If you want to make the rules, then become the owner.

    As long as you're renting, you're playing by someone else's rules.

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  65. B.K. W.
    • 361 friends
    • 0 reviews

    Naturally, I am creepy and un-compassionate.  I was once a dirty, loud, living dervish of destruction as a child, so it only makes sense that I would grow up to be a creepy and un-compassionate adult.

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  66. Chris C.
    • 45 friends
    • 549 reviews

    Also, I'm fine with being uncompassionate and creepy.  Makes life eaiser so people don't have any kind of expectations out of you.

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  67. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    welcome to the club...

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  68. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    JeFF T. says:

    It's not stereotypical.  If an apartment has tenants in it, each tenant has rights.  What if one tenant is allergic to dogs/cats?  Is it right to allow the pet causing the allergy to stay?
    ----------
    This is a poor argument because I have an allergy to perfume and no one has denied entrance to a renter on this account even though the common areas reek of perfume and they give me migraines and cause me to miss days of work.

    I agree landlords can do what they want but the bite argument is much better than the allergy one.

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  69. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    I'm not saying one argument is better than the other...it's just one argument.

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  70. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    i think everyone is missing the point. the point is that i found a place to live.

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  71. Kate B.
    • 32 friends
    • 337 reviews

    Jesse!  WTF!?!?!?  
    Registering your dog as a service animal????  I really hope that you realize how outrageous that is.  There are people that have real disabilities and and really need extra accommodations.  Just because you REALLY like your pet, does not make it a service animal.  that sort of statement is incredibly disrespectful too all disabled people out there.  Please get your head out of your ass on that one

    Jesse "a likable chap" B. says:

    actually the city could make it easier for pet owners if they wanted to.  if they can tell you what color to paint your house...

    i think the pet resume idea rocks congrats to those who have thought of that.  i am also thinking about registering my dog as a a service animal because she really does provide a lot more than a therapist or drugs could for me..

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  72. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    kate, if jesse's doctor feels like his dog does provide a sort of therapy to him and wants to write out all of the documentation, then it's not your call on whether or not it's valid.

    you can't just go register a dog as a service dog, you need documentation and to follow certain procedures.

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  73. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    Yay for Suge.

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  74. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    Suge K. CONGRATS on the place to live. What's it like? In the city? How's the big, mean dog going to like it? Hard wood floors for him to slide around on or soft carpet for him to snuggle in?

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  75. Jesse B.
    • 55 friends
    • 0 reviews

    Kate,  what do you actually know about me?  This is another example of people judging with out information.  

    I wish I could buy a place of my own but that is not a possibility at this moment.  And really what is disturbing is that a lot of lessors won't even meet me and my dog.  At the very least it would be nice if decisions were made on a case by case basis.  

    Yes I am a big cry baby because I am stuck in this sticky predicament right now, its very real to me, not just a philosophical question.  I'm sure it will lose its potency once I'm settled back into normal life.

    No I don't think all landlords are pricks, in fact all of mine that I can remember have been cool and in return I think they will all say the same about me.

    Sitting on my ass I am, as I have a job and I go to work every day.  I think this discussion has been helpful to me to better understand both sides and I hope it sparks more thought/awareness in this area of life.

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  76. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    I'm just glad that canine will be off the streets...

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  77. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    thank you, jeff, for finally realizing what's important!

    thanks, shelly. yup, it's in the city. hardwoods - i won't have anything else (though i do have tons of area rugs). and as a bonus it's got a HUGE back yard - and a doggie door leading out to it so he can get out and terrorize the neighbors.

    of course, anyone who knows anything at all about dogs knows that a big dog like that won't get any exercise with a yard and they need to be taken on walks. which, of course, is what makes them PERFECT city/apartment dogs. but it's nice to know that he'll be able to go outside and lay in the sun if he chooses.

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  78. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    Actually Jesse, what I do is go and make the person fall in love with me and convince them that I am the perfect renter and that they want ME to rent their place and then ask about the dogs. And I take a picture of the dogs which shows them in the most non-threatening pose ever, with really dopey looks on their faces so they look as harmless as they are.

    I learned the hard way never to tell them about the dogs on the phone. I wait until I meet them in person (unless the ad states NO dogs, then I don't even bother calling). But sometimes you have to do this when you have a dog which weighs more than 20 lbs.

    And Suge -- sounds perfect! I have a little guy who thinks he's a lizard and will lay on his side in the sun until he's too hot to touch. Silly dog.

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  79. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    "I learned the hard way never to tell them about the dogs on the phone."

    A couple of people just suckered me into that the other day when I was showing my home for rent.

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  80. G K.
    • G K.
    • San Diego, CA
    • 299 friends
    • 306 reviews

    This thread caught my eye.

    We rent in SF, but own in NYC
    We like dogs, just don't choose to live with them

    We avoid renting to pet owners (flame away!!!)
    What's the upside to renting to a dog owner?  can think of plenty of downsides
    - bags of poop in the trash cans, that smell and someone has to clean
    - hair in common areas
    - odors apt/common areas
    - people who have pets tend to be more homebodies (they have to always take care of go in and out a lot)
    - more wear and tear on floors, steps, walls, doors

    I've had a dog lover tenant, who had doggie parties, we're not running a kennel
    One of her pets was a Rot, she'd frequently left it off the leash in a crowded urban setting
    It would go after people and other dogs and me, even after repeated warnings/complaints from me and neighbors
    I had to hide in my own home and/or carry deadly force
    One time I said f*k it and walked outside and got into a literal fist fight with the 120lb dog, off the leash of course
    Good thing I'm a burly dude, I literally punched the thing straight in the mouth when it lunged at me, bloody hand, cops, the works
    Needless to say they were out soon after

    Other experiences, pet excriment in back yard, urine smells in apts that you can't get rid of
    The stories go on and on
    Remember everyone's on their best behaviour in the honeymoon, but ur stuck with bad tenants for a year or a lawsuit

    Similar arguments go for smokers
    They stink up the apt, building, common areas, even if they are careful and considerate, smoke comes into your apt if you try to prevent it

    We've actually had great tenants that became personal friends of ours and remained so after they moved
    They had a dog and smoked and were very very considerate, even in that almost perfect scenario, sh!t happens

    Other's have written that if you own, you do what you want, but when u rent, you have to abide by other's rules

    When the renters become owners, it's more than likely they'll change their opinions on the matter

    No more for us, thx

    Oh yeah 1200 for rent, that's a deal, we pay almost 3x that!!!

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  81. Shelly V.
    • 242 friends
    • 409 reviews

    Sorry Jeff, but it works.

    Some landlords say NO right away on the phone without giving you a shot at the place. This way, we are on even ground. I don't lie, if they ask on the phone if I have animals I will tell them. If they don't ask, I don't offer the information.

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  82. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    jeff - you should put in the ad NO PETS. make it all caps. cuts out any confusion.

    my current place and my new place both were not advertised as being pet friendly. and when times are tough like they are now, you've got to try everything when you have a dog.

    if you wrote NO PETS and they still came, then they're assholes.

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  83. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    I indicated pets negotiable in my ad, thus I would expect them to be upfront about it from the get go.

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  84. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    jeff - change your ad so that you tell people to respond with information such as

    number of people
    reason for leaving current abode
    any pets? age/breed
    length of lease desired

    and for fun you can throw in
    age
    sexual orientation
    religion
    ethnicity
    # of unpotty trained children

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  85. Chris C.
    • 45 friends
    • 549 reviews

    I've had people inquire about a room even though I said No Pets and even had one guy that came in for a a face to face and near the end mentioned he liked the place and how I would feel about his dog moving in.

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  86. Suge K.
    • 308 friends
    • 306 reviews

    chris - those people are assholes.

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  87. Chris C.
    • 45 friends
    • 549 reviews

    Agree Suge and being on the landlord side, I understand why people are overly cautious.

    Not saying it's right, but I understand their thinking.

    And you're right, the most important thing is you found a place and Congrats!  Maybe there will be little children around that dog can eat ; )!

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  88. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    that's good stuff Suge...I'll be sure to include all of that.

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  89. Baobao B.
    • 0 friends
    • 5 reviews

    Jesse "a likable chap" B. says:

    "...yeah let's use the freak accident of dog biting child as a reason to exclude dogs.  that happens like 1% of the time, how that can be justification to exclude a whole population of people baffles me.  it's like saying there was an accident on the freeway so now I'm not going to drive on the freeway.  geeeezus.  where do you creepy people come from?"

    Thanks for sharing the information.  When did that accident happen?  I was not at the dog park and don't usually read the papers.   My dog and kids are trying to be friends as we speak. The other day,  I saw a homeless person hurt his own arm and told everyone a dog bit him.  It will be disturbing to see landlords refuse housing to pet owners based on their experience with a homeless lier.   Homeless people are not kids. They are adults even though some of them try to pass as mothers and children when they beg for money.   Many homeless people are good.  But there are an isolated few who are real mental cases.

    On another thought,  should fine restaurant, night clubs, beauty salons and landlords make rules to refuse service to or simply refuse to do business with  the few dirty homeless people  who have a track record of intentionally lying and pooing in public. There are only a handful of them and we can all help to build up the list.  Most people in town are allergic to their bad smell and unsanitary clothing if they are not concerned about getting attacked by the homeless.   These bad apples  from an otherwise decent but possibly misinformed homeless community give the businesses and the city a bad name.  The businesses shouldn't be responsible for them disturbing the good customers and associates.  These people need help.  Let's give them the help they need and send them to shower!

    We can either be liberal minded to all or be narrow minded to all.  We all have a choice.  That's fair play, isn't it?

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  90. Baobao B.
    • 0 friends
    • 5 reviews

    We don't discriminate a person for being a woman, a black, or a homeless.

    We discriminate a person who looks dirty and smells bad.  And we handle it on a case by case basis with great patience, tolerance, understanding and compassion .   Isn't this much better?

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  91. Cris B.
    • 95 friends
    • 131 reviews

    Jesse's predicament is a very REAL and CURRENT predicament that hitting a lot of HOME OWNERs who are finding themselves in losing their homes because of the mortgage crisis.  In case some of you are not paying attention to the news, People in California are losing their homes left and right and unfortunately its their animals who are being displaced and in many cases EUTHANIZED.  people are finding themselves unable to find a home/apartment, etc., because property owner's refuse to rent to folks with animals.  

    THIS IS A VERY BIG PROBLEM.  So don't give Jesse a hard time because he wants to do what he feels is right in his heart.  

    I had a similar situation with my cat.  I found her dieing, I didn't want an animal, but was compelled to offer her some assistance.  She was the best little companion, most faithful loving creature I've ever been lucky enough to come across.  She really opened my eyes, and I, thanks to her loving little soul, have a change of heart.  

    My dog kind of feel in my lap too, so to speak, and I didn't even think twice about adopting her.  I wish I could adopt more, but unfortunately one is all I can have.

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  92. Cris B.
    • 95 friends
    • 131 reviews

    dog fell into my lap, is what I was trying to say

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  93. Jeff T.
    • 534 friends
    • 513 reviews

    Yes, enforcing his will onto others is a noble thing.

    Calling all landlords pricks, not so.  Sounds like the perfect tenant.

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  94. Baobao B.
    • 0 friends
    • 5 reviews

    Cris "Mistress of Mischief" B. says:

    "Jesse's predicament is a very REAL and CURRENT predicament that hitting a lot of HOME OWNERs who are finding themselves in losing their homes because of the mortgage crisis.  In case some of you are not paying attention to the news, People in California are losing their homes left and right and unfortunately its their animals who are being displaced and in many cases EUTHANIZED.  people are finding themselves unable to find a home/apartment, etc., because property owner's refuse to rent to folks with animals.  "

    For pet owners, if pets are not an option in SF,  move to Europe, where plants, animals and people are all  very liberal and pet friendly.   But that will only make the life worse for home owners who are already losing their homes. :(  They will lose their source of  mortgage payments and the life style they are accustomed to .

    There are win-win solutions to make everyone's life easier.  There are lose-lose solutions to make everyone's life more difficult.  We all have supporters on both sides of this pet housing debate. Let us be thorough with all outcomes and open-minded to the win-win solutions.   Most importantly,  we shall enjoy some good afternoon green tea.

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  95. Chantal H.
    • 563 friends
    • 100 reviews

    Oh Jesse, you gotta read the entirety of this thread: yelp.com/topic/san-franc…

    I had an absolute bitch of a time with a total d-bag landlord...

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  96. John X.
    • 0 friends
    • 0 reviews

    But why would you sign a lease that said no dogs when the ad said small dogs okay? Not to be a jerk, but you shouldn't have signed the lease until they included small dogs in the language.

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  97. blair k.
    • 229 friends
    • 300 reviews

    i have nothing to add to this conversation but the fact I am a dog owner/lover and Viva Pet Stuff!!!

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  99. cris c.
    • 4 friends
    • 0 reviews

    "is there anything that can be done to stop the discrimination against pet owners?"

    I agree I think that pet owners should have the right to rent any place, but they should put up a $1,000,000 bond to have the whole place scrubbed with bleach, all the plaster board ripped out, the floors ripped out, and all the duct work ripped out so the next 100 non-pet owners don't have to smell your filthy beasts!  

    Maybe a $500,000 no crap bond so kids don't have to step in crap everytime you take your Saint Bernard out of your 400 sq foot apartment to leave crap piles at one of the few parks and other green places to play in SF.  

    And a $200,000 bond to keep your cat from crapping in next door little 2 yr old Emiliy sand box.

    A $100,000 bond for every endangered song bird your cat kills.  

    And a $10,000,000 bond to stop your cat from spreading Staph (MSRA) infections all over the city and killing the old, homeless, and AIDS weakened citizens.  (MSRA
    vet.cornell.edu/fhc/news…)

    A $10 reward for keeping all the crazy single women home at night instead of talking crazy to potential dates.  Please if you a women and have a cat... tell the guy so he can just move on to the next girl and not waste time on you. If your a guy and have a cat go to the gym stop earting and lose the 100 lbs... you will feel better.

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  100. Gerald C.

    rofl @ cris!!  having pets says so much...

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