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    Here's one of my main pet-peeves....  I am a pretty eco-friendly dude.... I live out in the country, we have lots of organic food grown on our land, I have a really good job that I work full-time and I love, and I look attractive and am educated as well..... but I choose not to drive and that is a life-style choice.....

    Lets' continue....
    It may be simply that I meet really superficial people when I go out (which is definitely probably true) and I tend to be into socially-conscious women who border on being "hippified"......(whom I rarely meet when I go out)  but almost without fail every time I meet a woman and the initial attraction phase is complete I hit a wall..... "do you drive?"  "No I Don't".....  This is my choice and I will probably not choose to change it until I have a family that depends on me!  I know that to this brainwashed and materialistically-inclined culture that is "erogenously-aesthetic"  (yes I made up that word!) that not driving a car is seen as a sign of a lack of responsibility but this is not so in my case.  Why are we so shallow and why have we forgotten where we came from.

    I have a job that requires me to travel all over the Bay Area and this costs a lot of money, but this is an investment that I find feasible, and so I pay not to drive!  And I am also not irresponsible (running a business and not living with my family). Granted I do not have much time to date women anyway because of my work, but it would be nice to someday meet a woman of substance who isn't all about image and believe that people can live their lives how they want to!

    Are there other men out there who have encountered this problem, or are there women out there who can explain what this new-age phenomenon is, this hating on people who choose not to drive?  I look forward to hearing your responses!

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    sounds like you fancy high maintenance birds

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    wtf? I thought it was a guarantee to stay single if you drive around here.

    Then again, maybe you're looking for the wrong women. Try Bastille Day.

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    it's cuz you double post

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    it's cuz your name is Frenchie

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    I think its your fascination with hippie chicks.  You're not going for the real deal livin on a commune type, but the gals who like that scene and such and are probably a lil on the superficial side.  How you gonna drive a leg of Panic tour w/o a car?

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    Where are you meeting these women?
    Environmentally conscious women typically don't hang out in higher profile establishments...

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    i dont waste my time on girls like that

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    I don't think all women are shallow. I grew up in So Cal and have never owned a car. Its not that difficult to get around. Here in SF its more expensive to own a car than to take public transit, cabs, whatever. With gas and parking and permits.

    I think people ask if you drive or have a car because they are from an area where you pretty much have to have one, with little or no options otherwise.  Like if you are from Ohio or a  suburb. If they judge you for it, they are shallow.

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    driving topless.

    • 24 friends
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    take your car to the car wash.....

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    you just need to find a woman as eco-friendly as you are, and you guys can not-drive each other on dates.

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    Upon closer inspection... Fairfield?  You need to move to SF... or get a car... or a motorcycle...

  1. I don't think it would be an issue if you lived in the city. When I met my boyfriend he didn't have a car...we went everywhere on public transportation for the first year we were together.

    But way out in the country? I imagine it makes dating somewhat cumbersome.

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    You can drive but you prefer not to correct?

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    you need a breath mint

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    "it would be nice to someday meet a woman of substance who isn't all about image and believe that people can live their lives how they want to!"

    I think you might be better off going gay, given that I've never met a woman who completely fulfills your description.  I have met a number of women who BELIEVE they fulfill that description, but I don't think that'll cut it for you.

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    Stop hanging out in Marin County, Pacific Heights, Russian Hill, and the Marina and start hanging out on Telegraph in Berkeley.

    You problem is now solved.

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    Convenience is always a huge factor.  No one is hating on your life choices.  You just become inconvenient at first sight.

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    Stop being so obnoxiously liberal and you might find a woman who shaves her arm pits.

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    yeah, it happens, but it just weeds out the loser chicks

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    how are you gonna get 'round on a bus pass, before she puts her pussay on yo' mustache!?

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    Not everyone wants to have to hitchhike to go out for dinner

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    Depends how you get around and where you're going - if you're both close to reasonable and convenient transportation, it *could* work, but if it means her driving all the way out to your place in the country to pick you up every time you two go out, then get a Prius or something that runs on biodiesel.

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    my answer, posted in that OTHER thread you started

    here are some thoughts...
    hey - can you pick me up for the movies? I'll buy popcorn.
    hey - can you drive me to work, it's raining.
    hey - can I borrow your car to go on a weekend roadtrip with my buddies, and sorry no you're not invited...

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    I also have to warn you that you do come off as a little pretentious and er, shallow...I'm totally not suggesting that you are, but it's possible you're sending out the wrong vibe and/or attracting the wrong women because of it.

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    I thought of a few more...

    hey - can you pick me up from work, and drive me home so I can get my guitar, and then drive me over to the Mission for my band practice.  Oh - and practice is over at 11pm. Can you pick me up?

    • 117 friends
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    hey - I've got all these toxic halogen grow lights I gotta get rid of, can you give me a ride to the dump?

    • 117 friends
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    hey - can you pick up some dinner for me?

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    If you are in the country, how do you go out on dates? Meet at the restaurant/bar/etc.? Get to her house and then expect her to drive? Always expect her to come to you? It seems like the onus is then put on the date to figure out transportation, and that doesn't seem fair.

    I have dated guys without cars and have no problem with it. Sometimes we take cabs, sometimes walk, sometimes drive my car. But, I think in the 'burbs it would be different.

    I also find it interesting that you expect women to accept your life choices,  but you don't respect when they're just not that into you because they might not fit into theirs. Yet they are the selfish ones who should change.

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    heh Cindy, it sounds like *someone* has had experience dating carless guy(s)

    ps - I'm stuck over here on Telegraph in Berkeley.  Had to pick some stuff up.  Can you pick me up?

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    OH - when you go get dinner - order a little something for yourself, on me, but hey, don't get meat okay, you know how I feel about how the meat industry's just raping our planet.

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    I don't even have a license and chicks totally dig me

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    okay how about if you drive over and get me, but then I'll drive your car after that.  no backseat driving comments tho!

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    you don't need any kind of material possession to attract women . . . sounds like a change of attitude will help you more than any kind of car.

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    hahaha - I don't know what you're talking about Jack.  And no smoking (whatever) in MY car.

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    either you are meeting the wrong girls or you are being too preachy about not having a car. You know, like those damn vegetarians that insist on telling you about how all of our problems are due to eating animals when you want to order pepperoni on a pizza.

    I see no reason to get a car if you don't want one.

    Oh, and you don't need a hippy chick either. Actually, if you want a hippy chick they would be more impressed with a veggie car anyways.

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    If you are an eco friendly dude who lives in the country, I don't think you should date the kind of girls who ask you about what kind of car you drive anyway.  Beyond the whole car issue, I don't think you'll have much in common there.

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    You don't.  You just gotta start off your conversation with something other than, "Pick me up and we can go....."

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    There's a large disconnect going on here.

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    Some hot guys actually take the bus, ride Vespas, push skateboards, etc.  Don't need a car.

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    Get a horse, girls dig horses.

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    So, let's sum up:
    1). You live in the boonies
    2). You think you're "eco-friendly" and are extremely self-righteous about it
    3). You meet a woman's surprise over your lack of a car with a lecture about lifestyle choices
    4). You think we're all brainwashed materialists

    Well my goodness, I just have no idea why you can't get a date!  It's preposterous!  I think an attitude adjustment would do a hell of a lot more to improve your date-ability than a BMW would.

    One of my exes didn't have a car, we were together about 2 years and it was fine, mostly.  We walked and took public transportation a lot, but when ever we went somewhere requiring a car I had to drive.  Usually this was not a big deal, but it means always being the designated driver, always being the one hunting for a damn parking spot, always being called upon for airport runs but never being able to call in the favor and a hundred other minor inconveniences.  

    Lack of a car isn't a hugely big deal, but it does place a burden on the other person, and that gets old.

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    quit trying to date women who think that way.

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    Son.. in my close to six decades of being alive.. (four-and-a-half of those post-pubescent..) my sad observation is that...

    Most *conventional* girls only date guys with personal motorized transport of some sort... and it *has* to be presentable..
    Mebe going out on a date with a guy who has a car or motorcycle.. gives them a sense of security..
    Mebe the fact that a guy can afford or maintain a car.. a *nice* car.. kind of hints at his potential as a reliable provider..
    Mebe they feel a guy in a car can take them to a place they've never been before..

    (Shrugs shoulders..)

    Don't have any doors that locks..You gotta use a effin' coat hanger..
    An' if a lil' chickee ever see's my car.. Ain't no chance that I gonna bang 'er..

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    On the flip, most *conventional* men I know like a woman with a car, too, for similar reasons.

    Don't act like women are the only superficial beings. It goes both ways.

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    CINDY K. says:

    I thought of a few more...

    hey - can you pick me up from work, and drive me home so I can get my guitar, and then drive me over to the Mission for my band practice.  Oh - and practice is over at 11pm. Can you pick me up?

    ---------

    +1

    My experience exactly.

    I have dated exactly two quote unquote "eco friendly" and/or "no-blood-for oil" type guys who felt all superior because they didn't have a car. Which is fine. BUT they were more than happy to ask me to drive their ass all over creation or to ask me to come pick them up at a bar at 2am or to come along on a road trip to Mexico without offering to chip in for gas.

    Screw it. If you don't want to have a car, that's fine. But if you think cars are evil, you shouldn't be bumming rides.

    If you live in the boonies and don't have a car, whatever girl you date knows that she's going to have to go way the fuck out to wherever you are to see you 'cause you're probably not going to take the bus all the way into the city to see her. It's not worth the trouble.

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    Haha, Cindy K. is funny.

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    Honestly.... women who judge men by their possessions and whether they drive or not are pretty shallow and a waste of time.... but you would be surprised at how many women would be more interested if they found out that you had a driver or a chauffer but they never gave you the chance to get past the initial disinterest before you could even get to that point.... and yes, granted a lot of the women I meet out are gold-diggers, but aside from the occasional holiday, I rarely have time to go out for pleasure and not business....  i guess it's true that it is good that these ladies are called out for their shallowness before it's too late and you are stuck with them.
    Remember.... humans didn't always have cars and love is bigger than that.... vrooom vroom!

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    You don't need a chick-you just need a friend.

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    Wait, so drivers or chauffeurs are OK but expecting someone to have a car makes you a superficial b**ch?

    ... What everyone else said about an attitude adjustment applies here.

    I'm a pretty eco-conscious girl who's dated men without cars before, but I wouldn't date a guy who approached it like you do.

    And yes, it does get annoying having to drive the guy to work in the morning because he slept over that night and can't get to work on time from your place walking, or he can't make it home from band practice because the bus in his buddies' neighborhood stops running after 11.

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    You don't need a car, a big dick or a big bag of weed will work too.

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    I prefer to be the one driving.  That way I don't get kidnapped.

    • K L.
    • San Francisco, CA
    • 1002 friends
    • 1147 reviews

    Ah the joys of living in the Tri-valley.

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    I've judged a guy based on what he drives. I had been on  4 dates with this guy and really, really liked him. On date 5 I saw his car...a new top of the line black BMW. It actually made me feel a little ill to my tummy. I could never look at him the same way. In those 4 dates I had thought he was a nice humble boy from the midwest who went fishing with his grandpa.
    Anyway, so yes I am guilty of judging someone by their car. Had he been driving a beater I wouldn't have judged him on his possessions.

  2. Yup, I'd guess most girls would limit their exposure to a guy who considers them superficial and unworthy for not admiring his odd lifestyle choices.  You probably need to find someone who enjoys being browbeaten and subverting themselves to dominant guys with a bent for self-righteousness and not thinking things through fully.  Maybe you can hang out at a lefty bookstore and make a pass at any girl who picks up a Che Guevara manifesto?

    Some other reasons why "superficial" girls (i.e. those with a sense of self-preservation) might avoid car-free guys:
    * It's usually a sign that somebody has a recent drunk driving conviction, is dirt poor, or both
    * It's very inconvenient
    * Taking taxis everywhere and hiring personal help is more irresponsible than driving oneself
    * People who stick out as strange may turn out to be strange - best to avoid the outliers
    * You won't find as many people who are environmentally conscious about overuse of natural resources in the outer suburbs - it's a bit of a contradiction.  If you cared about your planetary footprint you would live in the city.

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    What Cindy and Kathryn said.  Especially the bit about band practice!  Haha!  When I met my husband, he had no car.  I have had lots of boyfriends with no car, or an "unacceptable" car  -- one long-time BF drove a Datsun Pickup that was literally older than me, and had huge chunks missing from rust.  But they lived in the city, not wayyyy out in Fairfield.

    On another note, I have this client who pays me late every month, after I finally get sick of waiting and remind him.  Not because he can't afford it or he's cheap, but because it just doesn't seem important to him.   He has plenty of money from the family, and seems... er... not to be a genius? He is super into surface stuff, ie: he has HUGE pictures of his various luxury and sports cars on his wall.  The other day I went to his house, where I rarely ever go upstairs but I had to look for my check, and some girl yelled, "Oh!  I'm naked!  Wait a second!"  So she comes downstairs (in tee and sweats) and she is a totally devastating KNOCKOUT!  Like, I don't know if I have ever seen a girl that great-looking in person. Ever.  EVER.

    What is the moral of this story?  You tell me.

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    If you don't have a 'hot' car you can't get 'hot' women?

    Maybe he needs to go for us uglies-to-normals more often...

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    "Stop. What happened, how about the ones we especially like?"
    youtube.com/watch?v=BaeN…

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    Bud "Always missing the point" E. says:

    Manny, I think he's talking about lasting relationships.  You know, like 2 or 3 nights instead of just one.
    =================================================================================

    Why?

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    Frenchie, unless you find someone else as cunty as you, you're going to die alone.

    • K L.
    • San Francisco, CA
    • 1002 friends
    • 1147 reviews

    Weird, I thought Scotty started this thread.. hence the Tri-valley comment..

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    Keane, Scotty haas that Bitchin' Rape Van.  Remember?

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    I'll be honest-I have a car so I like my boyfriend to have one also so I don't have to be the one constantly driving or responsible for picking the other one up.

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    because you don't have a a fixed gear, tats, cool hair, and are in a band.  You're pretty much supposed to have a cool reason for not having a car, I think.

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    You can always tote your dates on your handlebars...old school-like.

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    John, he pays not to drive.

    He has a driver! Frenchie is real, we met him at DYL last week. He was passing out organic onions.

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    I completely empathise with the poster's problem, & feel about the same but I am an urban person. I am not looking for a girlfriend to drive me to band practice! Damn right I could get there on my own and I DO manage to get everywhere I need to get. But I think he is right. As a generalization  you can say that, unless you have a car, women aren't looking to mate with you. They want some dork in an SUV that can cart the brood around to wherever THEY need to be. See, it won't be all about YOU anymore, anyway. San Francisco is just as superficial as LA, "except, with bicycles." That SF is more bike friendly is certainly arguable, but on most points, we have it over LA by miles for being a place that is friendly to those of us that refuse to become oil-serfs. Now if You ARE a woman who is an exception to this rule, well, gee, drom me a PM and tell me all about yourself. Otherwise, I think, the majority of guys like us will have to remain satisfied with being ahead of the curve about the merits of a car-free existence, and until the mainstream finally gets the bug we have been itching all along, there is probably not a lot can be done. Really, what can you women do to help the earth that is BETTER than giving up your atutomobiles? The challenge is to come up with a better answer for that, and also, to give a bit of credit to the guys who have not bought into the petro-culture (we all rely to some extent on it anyway- but some are entitled to be more guilt-free than others) because THEY are doing what you (so far) haven't had the guts for- to live without the "privelege" of being an oil-serf -like the herd.

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    Dude - I don't even own a car, and I have no trouble at all meeting women.  Maybe the problem is you.  Just sayin' . . .

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    Jaime M thinks she's "ugly to normal."  Ha - as if.  I admire your humility, hot stuff.

  3. I think the term is limousine liberal.

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    Joe "El Dorko" C. says:

    Jaime M thinks she's "ugly to normal."  Ha - as if.  I admire your humility, hot stuff.

    ------------------------------------
    +1

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    • 1928 friends
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    Maybe you'll find a woman who one day will be willing to drive to hang out with you. Driving sucks.

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    In general, woman do -- correction, let me use the word, prefer -- women prefer not to date guys who do not drive because woman are the very same 15 & 16-year old girls who rather 'go out' with the guy with the car than the guy without the car; women are just old and bigger 15 & 16-year old girls.  Meaning, women's minds have not changed, they still think the same way when they were teenagers.
    Why is that?  Female humans are like any other female species.  When it comes to sex the instincts concerning mating activate.  
    What do females seek in any potential mate?  Ans.: knowing that the male they choose is capable of caring for their offspring and them.  Although for human females they can exercise they rational faculties and deliberately choose to have sex but bundled with their thinking are their mating instincts, that is unavoidable.  Peacocks, apes, humans all like strive to mate each other but only if they think that it will enhance their chances of survival.  For apes and lions being big and bullying the others in the pride is important; for peacocks, the colour diversity of their plumage.  For humans, it is status and wealth.
    The quickest and simplest way for a human female to judge a potential mating partner's status and wealth, at least in the industrialized Western worlds, is the car the guys drives.  Hence why driving a Porsche is better than driving a Pinto and that is better than the bus.
    Guys do not naturally obsess about their cars.  They only do because guys know woman judge men by the cars they drive.

    Bottomline:  If you want to date, then get a car.  The type of car you get determines the range of women you are able to date.

    Point of clarification.  Getting a date i.e. picking up women can be accomplished without a car.  Going on a first date can be done without a car provided...  But a relationship, well, women prefer -- let me repeat -- prefer, to date guys who have cars.

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    Hi Frenchie. I don't have a car or a license. However, I am taking the test on Thursday for work because it requires driving the company car.

    I don't care if a s.o. has a car or not. It does make driving out of the area convenient.

    Needless to say, I think I am perfect for you. ;)

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    this thread is hella funny.

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    My husband doesn't have a car and he didn't have one when I met him. I would say your problem is where you live and a little bit your attitude. Yes most women want a man with a car, especially in the suburbs. Everything is so spaced out there and usually the public transport is horrible. But if you lived in the city SF or Berkeley you might have more of a chance to find like minded women. I see a lot a women in SF riding bikes all around the city.

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    You need to date more hippies.

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    What?
    You're full of shit, Frenchie.
    How about steering the conversation away from transportation and towards whatever your sexual; talents may be?
    I find that Achem's razor to be the best way to get what I'm looking for, and I'm not looking for a driving buddy.

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