The Sterling Affairs: Bonus Episode
Ramona Shelburne: April 25th, 2024, and exactly ten years ago I was in Portland, Oregon covering a first-round playoff series between the Houston Rockets and the Portland Trailblazers. I thought it was just a regular old first-round playoff series. And somewhere in about the third quarter I get a news alert from TMZ.
Reporter: We got some breaking news here to SportsCenter, disturbing story involving one of the owners in the NBA. An audio recording purportedly of Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling making racist remarks to his girlfriend is being investigated.
Ramona Shelburne: It’s been ten years since that moment. My producer, Meghan Coyle, and I are in our studio in L.A. reminiscing. I’d spent the morning doing interviews to mark a decade since the Sterling tapes leaked. Plus, FX was making a TV series based off my reporting in the Sterling affairs.
It’s called Clipped, and I’m an executive producer. So people wanted to talk about that too. When my interviews were finished for the day, we turned the mic back on. And even when I hear the tape ten years later, I still get chills.
Like, I still can’t believe he said those words. And it feels in a lot of ways like a lot’s happened. Ten years feels like a long time ago. Since 2014, we’ve seen so many owners say bad things, or investigations into their business practices or into sexual misconduct.
Or r– racist statements or– in the finals in 2019 one of the co-owners of the Warriors bumps into Kyle Lowry and he’s banned. There used to be this world where powerful people used to be able to sort of use their clout and their power and their privilege to stay in positions of power. Like, there was no accountability for people in those positions until Donald Sterling was caught on tape by his mistress saying racist things.
Meghan Coyle: What was it like being a reporter covering this? Like, what was going through your head on the day the news broke?
Ramona Shelburne: Like, as a reporter you live for stories like this. It is a window into our society. It’s a window into the people we cover. You know, I always say sports is the way we talk about things that are uncomfortable to talk about. And we can talk about race relations because we’re talking about it through sports.
We can talk about workplace dynamics. When it happens in the sports world, we can talk about it through that lens and it feels safer to have those uncomfortable conversations. Like, this stuff happened all the time before these tapes came out, before there was this reckoning. And as a reporter covering this, like, I don’t know what we all could’ve done differently. There was plenty of stories about it. And we did write about it. We did talk about it. But it’s just different when you hear it on tape.
Meghan Coyle: And I imagine it’s so different seeing the tape and the Sterling affairs portrayed on screen. How does it feel to know that this story is being turned into a TV show?
Ramona Shelburne: I always thought this should be a movie. I always thought it should be a TV show from the second I started reporting on it. I grew up in L.A. You know, my mom was a screenwriter. This is Hollywood, right? And I’ve always had a sense for what’s a juicy story.
You know, you sink your teeth into it. It’s not just scandal. It’s not just sex or people behaving badly. I think a lot of why it was cool to turn it into a TV show is there’s just so many layers to each of these characters. Like, why is Donald the way he is? He was master of the universe. But the world changed.
And it’s kept changing. But has this scandal made a difference for the people involved, for the league and the players? And what is it gonna take for the Clippers to finally win a title and break the Clippers’ curse? I’m Ramona Shelburne, and this is a very special bonus edition of the Sterling affairs, ten years later.
To answer all of those questions and follow up on what’s happening with the Clippers today, I called up my colleagues. You might’ve heard of some of them. Veteran NBA writers Mark Spears and Zach Lowe, and L.A. radio hosts Steve Mason and John Ireland.
But before we get into that, I owe you an update on the women at the center of this story: Shelly Sterling and V. Stiviano. In all of the years I’d been reporting on this, V. had never agreed to talk to me.
Lawyer (00:04:24) [12.2 sec.]: Hi Ramona. Hope you’re doing well. I did have a talk with– V. and– she is not opposed to meet with you or have an interview.
Ramona Shelburne: Well, until recently. Okay, I apologize in advance for being so dramatic there, but I was literally screaming when I saw that V. Stiviano’s lawyer had left me that voicemail. I had talked to Shelly many times over the years, but never V. V. says she’d stayed away from the press for the past ten years because she’s been raising the children that she adopted.
But she did speak to me a few weeks ago. In fact, we talked for over two hours. She didn’t wanna do an interview for this podcast, so there’s not much I can share about the specifics of our conversation. But here’s what I can say. It was surreal to finally talk to her.
I’d thought so deeply about her character for both the show and the podcast that I’d often imagine what it would be like to interact with the real V. And she had questions for me too. She was curious about the TV series. “Who am I in this story,” she asked.
It took me a minute to give a good answer. There were 100 things I could’ve said. But the one that felt right was ultimately pretty simple: An agent of change, I told her. Donald Sterling had been a blight on the NBA for three decades. And in a blink, he was out because of the tape that V. had recorded.
I really wish that she had felt comfortable enough to sit down for an interview, but I definitely got the impression that this was not the last time we would hear from V. Stiviano. Shelly also did not wanna revisit this story with any new public comments.
She’s in a very different place now than she was ten years ago. She’s 89 and Donald is 90, and I got the sense that much of her time is spent looking after him. Yes, they’re still married. In fact, they probably spend more time together now than they did five years ago because he stays with her in Malibu more than he used to.
I also got the sense that Shelly absolutely still follows the team, as in she watched every Clippers game and has strong opinions on their coaches, on their players, on how the team is doing. The sad thing, though, is that for all the fighting Shelly did to keep her seats at the Staples Center, which is now Crypto.com Arena, she doesn’t use them much.
I’ve only seen her at a game a handful of times in the five years since the podcast came out. She said it’s too far of a drive from Malibu. But I also think she doesn’t feel as welcome there anymore. All the players she had a personal connection to are gone.
So is Doc Rivers. Steve Ballmer is really the only person from the sale that she knows well, but he’s focused on the team’s upcoming move to its new arena in the fall. The league has changed so much since her husband was banned from the NBA.
It takes billions to own and operate a franchise now. Front offices are stacked with a whole team of high-priced executives and analysts. Players have their own media companies and brands. Agencies are international content conglomerates, not just individual player representatives.
But in other ways, the league hasn’t changed nearly as much as one would expect. Especially when it comes to Black leadership in the sport. I spoke with my colleague Marc Spears about his memory of the Sterling scandal and how it has changed and not changed the NBA.
Marc Spears: Oh man, I gotta refresh my memory and go back in time to a miserable time.
Ramona Shelburne: Marc writes about the NBA for ESPN’s Black sports and culture website, Andscape. Marc, when you– when I first heard the tape, when we all first started looking into bylaws and what is available to Adam Silver, what can he actually do, banning him for life and forcing him to sell the team was not on my list.
Ramona Shelburne: It was not– I did not even know he had those powers. It was sort of– I mean, Donald Sterling was the first owner to be forced to sell like this. He was banned for life. But he wasn’t the last. How did the Sterling scandal alter our expectations of team owners and how they’re supposed to run their teams?
Marc Spears: Well, I think they’re on notice. And I think they’re probably more careful about social media now too, right? Like– certainly social media’s a big-time watchdog in itself. But one thing that hasn’t changed, I mean, how many Black owners have entered this league since then? None.
Reporter: Breaking news coming out of the NBA. Michael Jordan is finalizing a sale of the Charlotte Hornets, ending its 13-year run.
Marc Spears: And now Michael Jordan has divested most of his ownership in a league that is over 75% Black. The fact that the NBA has not pushed to get any Black ownership in this league since then is, to me, extremely disappointing. You– you had an opportunity with the Clippers.
Look, Ballmer has a lot of money. I get it. You had a opportunity in Phoenix. You had the opportunity in Atlanta. You know, Vivek Ranadivé, Indian owner, doin’ a great job with the Sacramento Kings. The fact that, like, there has been no Black ownership involved in any of these places I think is– somethin’ that the league should be ashamed of.
And they would probably respond by saying, “Well, Marc, we can’t force the owners to sell to certain people, right?” Like, and they can’t. But it’s still disappointing to me that there’s no significant Black ownership in a league where the entertainers are predominantly Black.
Ramona Shelburne: When you have white ownership, and– and I know they changed the word from “owner” to “governors.” And that’s a good thing ’cause words matter. But there’s still the power dynamic of somebody being the owner of the team and the players playing for them. How do you see the NBA workplace as– as changing since Sterling? How do you see player power and player relationships with the owners, not necessarily just over the franchise but over their own careers and how they behave in the workplace?
Marc Spears: Well, I mean, if– if there is one thing that I think is better, there is more Black and people of color in– in decision-makin’ roles, whether it’s president, general manager, you know, there’s even a Black woman that’s COO of the Dallas Mavericks. It’s huge.
So y– you know, you see more of that. I think you’re seein’ more women involved now. Vivek Ranadivé’s daughter I think at some point, you know, she’ll be runnin’ the team obviously. Jeanie Buss with the Lakers is– is makin’ history with, you know, her leadership of the Lakers. So I– I– I do think the there’s some things that have changed for the better, but I think a lot of peripherary positions where a lot of decisions are made still could be better.
Ramona Shelburne: Why is it important to have African Americans in positions of ownership? I mean– in C-suites– as general managers, as coaches.
Marc Spears: I mean, you know, representation matters. And if– if they’re the ones that are– basically doin’ all the dunkin’ and shooting and the majority of that, then there should be some representation of that as well. People like Jordan and Magic and, you know, eventually LeBron James and Kevin Durant, like, people that wanna be owners that will have the money to do it, so many ten years from now it changes.
And, you know, ultimately you have to have the money to play, right? And maybe there are not enough people of color. Maybe there’s not enough Black people to play in those worlds. But to me it– it’s truly sad when you’re the one doin’ the entertainin’ but then when you look at who’s payin’ you, who’s runnin’ the business, who’s sittin’ in the stands, like, your– your people aren’t really a part of that. So I think the players, they gotta remember from the bubble. I think in the bubble they realize how much power they had to make change.
Reporter: Back to our top story, playoff games in the NBA will resume tomorrow. The action will return three days after the Bucks’ initial protest over social injustice. The plan is for the league and the players to work together on several initiatives, including increased access to voting and other social issues. Now, NBA–
Marc Spears: They got polling booths for the last election. They got more Black businesses involved in the NBA. They got more Black charitable works involved. But I think in a lot of ways the players forgot the power that they had and kinda just moved on. Ultimately, the change will happen. I don’t think because the NBA will make change, I think the players gotta force that change. And when they decide to band together to do that, I think those opportunities will come.
Ramona Shelburne: I’ve lived in L.A. my whole life and, you know, growing up in Los Angeles the Lakers had all these titles. They had the Showtime Lakers, Magic, and then Kobe and Shaq and all the banners and all that. And there was a sense with the Clippers– like, nobody disliked the Clippers.
They just didn’t win because they had Donald Sterling as their owner and, you know, they had some good players along the way, but they just never broke through, right? It was– they had this, quote, unquote, “Clipper curse.” Somethin’ bad always happened.
Lamar Odom’s doin’ layup lines and he lands on a basketball and breaks his leg. What? Like, I mean, Tim Thomas once told me, he goes, “I didn’t believe in the curse and then one day we were on the road and the mirror in the bathroom just falls off the wall. Just falls off the wall.”
And I was like, “What do you mean fall? Somebody slam a door?” He’s like, “No.” He’s like, “It was the curse.” (LAUGH) Like– and I think the thought was after Sterling sold the team, okay, Steve Ballmer’s in here and he’s done everything right. He spent money. He went and got Kawhi Leonard and Paul George and James Harden, and he’s buildin’ this brand new arena down in Inglewood. It’s gonna be the best arena in the NBA. And they still haven’t won.
Marc Spears: Well–
Ramona Shelburne: Like, what– what is that? Why is that?
Marc Spears: I do think they’re cursed. (LAUGH) You know, ship be sinkin’. You know, I thought Sterling departure would change that. I wondered if they would move the team. Change the name. Maybe Ballmer should’ve changed the name, right? But I hate to say it, and– and Ballmer, this is said respectfully. This is– predates you. ‘Cause I love Steve Ballmer. We’re, like, waitin’ for it. Like, (LAUGH) we’re waitin’ for it to happen. Waitin’ for the ball to drop, literally. Like, ’cause it always has.
Ramona Shelburne: In 2021 I thought the Clippers really might break through. They beat the Dallas Mavericks in a tough seven-game first-round series. Paul George and Kawhi Leonard were healthy and awesome. Tyronn Lue had developed into one of the best coaches in the league. And then the ball dropped.
Leonard tore his ACL. The team made it to its first ever conference finals, but without Leonard they just didn’t have enough to go all the way. And they’ve never been as close since, despite fielding one of the most talented rosters in the league.
Marc Spears: But this team is certainly capability of holdin’ up the trophy. And if it happens, it’ll be one of the coolest stories in sports history.
Ramona Shelburne: The Clippers have completely changed their reputation since Sterling, from a team that overachieved in spite of their owner to a team that underachieved, despite the unlimited resources from their new owner.
In the last ten years, I’ve had the chance to sit down with Steve Ballmer a couple of times. Most recently hopefully the 2021 conference finals. He talked about his team and the gleaming new arena he was building in Inglewood. The Intuit Dome, which is set to open in August, means the Clippers will no longer have to share the old Crypto.com Arena with the Lakers and Kings.
Ramona Shelburne: Steve, you see really excited about this arena. How do you put this into your own legacy?
Steve Ballmer: I don’t think legacy much– my legacy. But I do think Clippers’ legacy. This is a timeframe in which we can transform this team and make it a pride and joy of our fans. We have millions of fans. It’s the nice thing about Los Angeles. It’s so big the other guys can have millions of fans and so can we. And I want our fan base to grow. And I want our fan base to be able to be proud, to know what we stand for. That’s the legacy I think is important.
Ramona Shelburne: ESPN senior writer Zach Lowe has been covering the NBA for over a decade, and has written extensively about the Clippers during Steve Ballmer’s tenure as owner. So when Steve Ballmer bought the team after the scandal, a lot was made about him being passionate and eccentric and loud. We saw all those corporate videos from Microsoft. But he seems to be very hands-on and care deeply about the organization. How would you describe his first ten years at the helm of the Clippers?
Zach Lowe: Certainly a lot has happened. A lot has happened. On the basketball court, you know, they transitioned from the CP, Blake, DJ teams just, like, a one- or two-year trough between that and the Kawhi, Paul George teams. And they went all in, obviously, to pair Kawhi and PG.
They’ve been a good team, but I don’t think lived up to the expectations that they’ve had when they paired those guys together. But just broadly, the longer we get away from Sterling, I do think it has shown that it is possible to sort of remake the image, different staff, new arena, new seriousness of purpose, new level of investment.
This isn’t the same old cheapskate Clippers. It is interesting how our memories work, right? Like, you would think that this would be a stain that would hover over the franchise forever. And it also feels like they’ve almost remade themselves in that they’re gonna have new jerseys, new uniforms, all that. It– it feels like it is receding into a different part of the team’s history.
Ramona Shelburne: So how have they remade their image around the NBA?
Zach Lowe: Within the league, I think they’re known as a smart, creative team. There’s a little envy snark about, like, “Oh, well, if we had Steve Ballmer’s purse strings, we could make that trade and that trade and that trade. And we’ll see how they do now that there’s the second apron restrictions and they can’t just keep adding money atop money atop money.”
But they have a big staff. They have a staff of smart people. And they’re kind of known as a relatively normal franchise, which for the Clippers is a huge step up from what they were known as during the Donald Sterling era, which was sort of like NBA purgatory, a place where nobody really wanted to end up.
Ramona Shelburne: That’s the national perspective. In L.A., though, our next guests say there is only one way to change the Clippers’ image.
John Ireland: If you’re not winning, you’re kinda outta sight, outta mind.
Ramona Shelburne: That’s John Ireland, one half of the longest-running sports talk radio show in Los Angeles. He and his radio partner, Steve Mason, have worked for both the Lakers and the Clippers during their careers.
John Ireland: The quickest way to get booed in this town (LAUGH) is to be a Clipper and go to a sporting event for another team. Like, Chris Paul, who is a wonderful player and a great guy, would go to Dodger games with his kids and they would put him on the Jumbotron and he would get booed.
I mean, just– and loud. Same thing with Paul George. And Paul George actually makes jokes about this on his own podcast, that if you agree to play for the Clippers, you just signed up to get booed for the entire duration of your contract.
Steve Mason: It used to be, “I hate the Clippers.” Now there is a level of respect because of Ballmer, because he’s investing in things beyond just players’ salaries.
John Ireland: They’re the opposite of cheap.
Ramona Shelburne: Do you think the Clippers organization has moved past the Sterling era in the minds of people in L.A.?
John Ireland: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely–
Steve Mason: Yeah. Yeah, I think– you know, interestingly, I think once you removed Sterling, it did end to a great degree. I mean, Sterling was the issue. He’s the reason the organization wasn’t successful. He’s the reason why there was no investment.
He’s the reason for all the awful stuff that he d– I mean, all that stuff went away when Donald Sterling went away. And I think it gave the Clippers, to a great degree, a clean slate. And if you drive by that Intuit Dome– I mean, here’s a guy who said, “$5 billion do– okay, I’ll– I’ll build a new stadium. We don’t need to share the arena anymore”–
John Ireland: Well, remember the Intuit Dome is going to be their home. They were the third team into a three-team building in L.A. There was a scenario this year where they played a noon Saturday game followed by a noon Sunday game because the Kings wanted Saturday night and the Lakers wanted Sunday night.
And the Clippers have no rights and they’re the third team in a three-team building. And he just said, “Man, I cannot wait to get outta here.” And I don’t blame him. When they have their own building, they are gonna dictate when they wanna play. And if anybody else wants to come in and share building, they can eat second. So I think that’s important for them to get their own building. I’m really happy for them–
Ramona Shelburne: So are they still a punchline though?
Steve Mason: Yes. They are–
John Ireland: Well, I think that if you’re playing word association and I wanted Mason to say Clippers, I would say “losers” and he would get it right.
Steve Mason: Yep.
John Ireland: But they’re not losers anymore. They– matter of fact, they’ve beaten the Lakers more than the Lakers have beaten the Clippers. They’ve just never done it in the post-season. And until they do, I don’t think anybody in L.A. is really gonna put ’em on the map.
Ramona Shelburne: There was a long time in Los Angeles or even in the NBA where players or coaches or even just anybody around the league would talk about the Clipper curse. And there’s a lot of theories about were they actually cursed, why they might’ve been cursed. I think Phil Jackson gave a sermon on karma ’cause he was a child of the ’60s once. Do you believe in a Clipper curse? And do you believe that it might’ve changed when Steve Ballmer bought the team from Sterling?
Steve Mason: I believe there’s always been a curse. I– I think the curse went along to great degree with Donald Sterling.
John Ireland: I agree.
Steve Mason: Who did not care about winning, who did not care about investing in the team– who obviously was– was a bad guy in a whole bunch of different ways. I think Ballmer does give them, and especially this new building, I think, gives them a new lease. I think they have an opportunity to build something for themselves. It will never match– what Lakers Nation does in this town. But they’ve got a chance to build something in a brand new, state-of-the-art building.
John Ireland: And I’ll take it a step further. It absolutely changed when Steve Ballmer got there because Ballmer’s not a jerk and he’s not cheap. And so now all of a sudden they have resources. As a matter of fact, I read somewhere that Ballmer’s net worth is– you could take 27 owners in the league and combine them and Ballmer makes more than they do. So Ballmer unlimited resources and Donald Ster– a lot of people wanted to see Donald Sterling kinda get what was comin’ to him. And that was all part of this curse, as you call it.
Ramona Shelburne: Well, the Clippers are trying to reinvent themselves now with Steve Ballmer as the owner. Kawhi Leonard, Paul George, do you think they can do it?
Steve Mason: No, I don’t. I think their identity is set, to a great degree, in this town. People know what the Clippers are about. They certainly have their fans. You know, they certainly have people that show up in their building. That is without debate.
But ultimately, I think, until they win, until they’re able to hang a banner, nothing changes. The new building gives them a new lease on life. But if they don’t do anything with it– then it doesn’t pay off in the way that Ballmer hopes that it will.
John Ireland: I actually disagree. I think they’re going to win a title in my lifetime. I think it’s almost inevitable. I think there’s too much money and too many resources. And it may not be with Kawhi Leonard and Paul George, but I think if Steve Ballmer stays the owner and continues to pour this type of money and resources into it, it’s inevitable that they’re gonna win.
Ramona Shelburne: The Clippers were among the favorites to win the championship again this year. After they traded for James Harden, they won 12 of their 15 games in January. Expectations were sky high. And then the ball dropped again. Kawhi Leonard suffered a knee injury at the end of the regular season and wasn’t able to recover in time for a playoff run. L.A. lost its first-round series to the Dallas Mavericks in six games. It was another season without a championship.
Reporter: And with a loss, the Clippers fall short of a title, once again, with only one conference finals appearance to their name. They’re among five franchises to never reach the NBA finals.
Ramona Shelburne: But Steve Ballmer is undeterred. When I interviewed him back in 2021 after that run at the Western Conference Finals, he said:
Steve Ballmer: You know, it’s part of the game. And, you know, our fans can count on us to– every year I want to win. You know, some people talk about, “We’re takin’ a step back,” or, “We got an injury year.” No. Our fans can count on the fact that we are gonna try (LAUGH) to win as many ball games as we can every year.
Ramona Shelburne: Whether it leads to winning a championship remains to be seen. Thank you for listening to The Sterling Affairs. Next week, I’ll be back hosting a very special Sterling Affairs spinoff, where we talk to the cast and crew of the FX and Hulu series Clipped.
Female Voice: Once we saw them doing the scene together, it was so scary good that I cried.
Male Voice: A neurological system does not know you’re acting. As long as you’re breathing, your brain and body starts to process those things and builds those things. And so we felt it that day.
Ramona Shelburne: Episodes start the first week of June.
