HomeAskSubmitFAQTagsTheme

I don’t have a lot of words right now but Steven Attewell, who you all reading this probably know as @racefortheironthrone , just passed away. He was a very great writer, friend, and person, and it’s a horrible loss.

Steven was an incredible contributor to the ASOIAF community, a great friend to the moderators of this blog and to so many others. His work analyzing ASOIAF chapter-by-chapter through a historical and political lens, begun in 2012, was a landmark and a prototype for numerous fans writing ASOIAF analysis, a true paragon. His blog on tumblr, where he kindly answered so many questions about the series in addition to his essay writing, was an inspiration to the ASOIAF fandom here, helping to build a community based on textual analysis. It's not an exaggeration to say that this blog would not at all be the same without him.

We will miss him more than we can say.

Some additional links - a beautiful tribute from one of Steven’s closest friends:

A heartfelt and edifying thread from Steven’s brother re his academic work:

I\'m heartbroken to say we lost my brother, Steven Attewell yesterday morning after a long struggle with cancer.  I\'ll put personal feelings and thoughts elsewhere, but given his and my community here, I want to talk about Steve\'s political and intellectual contributions.  🧵:  — David Attewell (@DavidAttewell6) April 11, 2024ALT


Donations can be made to Emergency Workplace Organizing in his memory.

I don’t have a lot of words right now but Steven Attewell, who you all reading this probably know as @racefortheironthrone , just passed away. He was a very great writer, friend, and person, and it’s a horrible loss.

Steven was an incredible contributor to the ASOIAF community, a great friend to the moderators of this blog and to so many others. His work analyzing ASOIAF chapter-by-chapter through a historical and political lens, begun in 2012, was a landmark and a prototype for numerous fans writing ASOIAF analysis, a true paragon. His blog on tumblr, where he kindly answered so many questions about the series in addition to his essay writing, was an inspiration to the ASOIAF fandom here, helping to build a community based on textual analysis. It’s not an exaggeration to say that this blog would not at all be the same without him.

We will miss him more than we can say.

245 notes   •   VIA: meanqueens   •   SOURCE: meanqueens

i think there’s an interesting parallel between cersei and alicent hightower that i really haven’t seen mentioned (and i really am not the biggest fan of comparisons between them, i personally view alicent as more of a margaery/catelyn if any comparisons need be made at all) and it pertains to a portion of their reception:

see i’ve seen demonization of cersei for her actions and, yes, she has done terrible things, but rarely do i see the understanding in tandem with condemnation of TYWIN for the role he played in her situation in the first place, and her development and her current views (of herself and the world at large).

and oh boy have i seen vitriolic hatred of alicent, the “villain of the DOTD”, the “wicked stepmother” to a “rightful queen”, and again, where is the understanding in tandem with condemnation of her FATHER, otto hightower, who put her in her situation in the first place? who was with her in king’s landing (for a significant amount of time) at her ear? not a great lady, but hardly anyone in the world of asoiaf is, and especially during the dance when all the players were ruthless and cruel.

(i think it’s especially difficult to analyze in alicent’s case because her story has been so vague so far, but knowing the societal structure that dominates westeros… i’ve made my interpretation. and with HOTD coming out there’s the chance she will be much more fleshed out, but my worst fear would be outcry that they’re making her “too sympathetic” which would certainly be… a take.)

mryoyo000 asked:

Hi again! I had another question I wanted to ask you, about the waif’s origin story that she tells Arya in AFFC. I was wondering if you would mind explaining the significance/meaning of it? Sorry for such a broad question. It stands out to me, because it reminded me of some fairy tales especially Cinderella/Three little men in the wood. Thank you! Have a great day!

goodqueenaly answered:

Prefacing this discussion with the caveat that we don’t know for certain what is true about this story, since Arya and the waif had already established the precedent of the lying game and since the waif herself said both that there was “an untruth” in it and that she “lied about the lie”. For these purposes, however, I’m going to assume that it is more or less accurate (including Arya’s deduction that the House of Black and White took two-thirds of the family wealth, not all of it).

You’re certainly right that GRRM loves his fairytale tropes: it’s barely scratching the surface to say that he has drawn inspiration from stories like Beauty and the Beast (in the stories of both Jaime and Brienne and Sandor and Sansa), Snow White (in the story of Cersei and her fear of the younger, more beautiful queen), and Little Red Riding Hood (whose story beats get twisted in Sansa and Sandor’s meeting during the Battle of the Blackwater), among many others, for ASOIAF. Indeed, he uses Cinderella’s basic plot points for Falia Flowers as well - the daughter of the household treated as a serving-maid by her father’s wife and the woman’s daughters, only to triumph over them when she “marries” a king - but, as he does with many other tropes, plays with and subverts them, having Euron reveal his truly evil nature in his treatment of Falia afterward.

The waif’s story, in that sense, also borrows elements from the classic (at least, to a western audience, appropriate given GRRM’s own background as a member of this audience) telling of Cinderella. The waif’s father’s second wife fits the Wicked Stepmother trope all too well, and if the woman’s daughter isn’t strictly a wicked stepsister (she seems to be the child of the waif’s father as much as the waif herself is, and we get nothing of her character in the story), there is certainly a sense of prioritizing the daughter of this second marriage over the daughter of the first. Perhaps GRRM was also thinking of the Grimms’ more violent (second) telling of the tale (certainly compared to the Disney film), in which the wicked stepsisters are initially mutilated (on their mother’s advice, in order to fit their feet into the all-important slipper) and later blinded as punishment for their treatment of Cinderella; certainly, the woman’s literally poisonous attempted murder of the waif, and the father’s willingness to have the woman murdered in turn reflect a distinctly non-sanitized take on fairy tale tropes. Again, because nothing is one to one between ASOIAF and its sources of inspiration, not all of the story beats of Cinderella are found here: the waif does not live happily ever after as the bride of a prince but is almost poisoned to death before being forced to spend the rest of her life working for a cult of assassins, and she seems to have none of the sweet, kind, unfailingly good nature of the fairy tale heroine.

In universe, the story underlines just how different the waif is from Arya; indeed, they are almost polar opposites in their family upbringings. The waif was “born the only child of an ancient House, my noble father’s heir”, her sole sibling eventually being a stepsister and rival for her dynastic place; Arya may also have been born to “an ancient House”, but she grew up in a happy, relatively sizable family of five siblings, mixing the children of Ned and Catelyn with the (ostensible) bastard son Jon, and as the younger daughter had no worries about being prepped to inherit Winterfell. The waif speaks of never knowing her mother, who died when she was young; Arya, by contrast deeply loved and misses her mother, hates that she could not save Catelyn from the Red Wedding, and even seemingly named herself after her mother when prompted for a false identity in Braavos. The waif was subjected to the murderous ambition of her stepmother, who sought to drive the waif out of the family inheritance in favor of her own daughter, yet I tend to believe that the Stark kids, happy to be reunited with their loved ones, will resist factional attempts to pit them against each other for control of Winterfell (with the obvious reminder that there is, you know, an apocalypse coming). The father of the family has no problem seeking murderous revenge in turn against his second wife, though this could not be farther from the truth about the relationship between Ned and Carelyn; indeed, Arya so much believes in the love between her parents that she angrily defended it to Edric Dayne and included the same sort of parental love in her invented backstory as Cat of the Canals. Nor could we ever believe that Ned would sacrifice his daughter to a cult of assassins for the sake of revenge; rather, we saw Ned’s willingness to renounce his firm beliefs about the succession and condemn himself to life imprisonment (and, though he might not have known it at the moment, death for himself) so that his daughter might be kept safe.

All of these contrasts emphasize that the House of Black and White is not the place of Arya of House Stark. This is a place which not only profits from dissension, infighting, and murderous ambition and revenge, but indeed depends on these to form its “market”, so to speak - a far cry from the happy home of Winterfell and its Stark inhabitants. Where the waif treats the implosion of her family life as merely a new entry in the lying game, Arya has never stopped remembering, or missing, her life among her Stark family members. Arya cannot give it all up, as the waif did (or, rather, as the waif had it decided for her that she would); she belongs back with her family and back in Winterfell.

Of course, the waif’s story is full of ironies as well. In the end, the grand fortune of that “ancient House” the second wife might have hoped for her daughter to inherit all but disappears into the coffers of the Faceless Men; only a third is left, less even than what the second marriage’s daughter would have gotten had the inheritance been divided equally. The father is left back where he started, dynastically speaking - the single parent of a single daughter - yet poorer for it, arguably no better and perhaps worse off than he had been before (only limited by our lack of insight into his personal view on the matter). If the father’s goal was to murder his second wife in revenge for what she had done to his elder daughter, his actions simultaneously took that daughter’s life as well; the waif was forced to spend the rest of her days forsaking her entire birth identity and murdering others in the name of an assassination guild, legally and spiritually if not bodily dead. (Nor, of course, do we ever get any insight as to what the waif herself, the actual target of that attempted murder, thought of either the contracted murder of her stepmother or her own permanent confinement in the House of Black and White; in an act of revenge ostensibly taken in her name, the waif has no input and no agency.) Likewise, while the father had his second wife murdered, he seems to have done nothing to disinherit the child of his second marriage. This daughter was in turn left precisely where the waif was, her father’s only heir and perhaps too young to remember her dead mother; the stepmother’s ambitions posthumously won out, as her husband’s elder daughter was effectively killed off and her own daughter was set to inherit. All of these ironies add to the waif’s characterization, making her an outlet of narratively rich writing as opposed to simply an NPC Arya interacts with in her new environment.

On a practical level, too, the story provides more insight into elements of the Faceless Men’s business model. The Faceless Men aren’t out to completely beggar their clients - hence asking for two-thirds of the man’s wealth instead of all of it - but they do ask for a considerable sacrifice, at least within the means of the requestor. The father in this story was probably a wealthy man (the head of that “ancient House” in a society which has historically valued trade and commercialism over feudal land ownership and agriculture), so the price was high in monetary terms - but because the father was also a man in the midst of a succession dispute, the price included the previous guarantor of his dynasty, his elder daughter (with, again, the implication that it would be the child of his targeted wife who would succeed him). Perhaps this pricing model was intended to imbue this killing with the divine approval of the Many-Faced God: if this man were willing to have his wife killed knowing that by his actions he would disinherit his older daughter and impoverish himself to some extent, then truly this request must be the will of the Many-Faced God, and not simply human vengeance.

396 notes   •   VIA: woodswit   •   SOURCE: turtle-paced
Anonymous asked:

Could have ned prevent his execution? Like explain better to Sansa why they need to leave, establishing more understanding relationship with her prior in general, not warning Cersei, etc. Was there any way to counter Littlefinger's involvement?

turtle-paced answered:

Plenty Ned could do to avoid his execution as in canon, and it goes further back. Ned was not locked into failure. Cleaning house in the Small Council well before that point was something he could and should have done. Or appointed more people to balance out the toadies. Shifting the balance of power in King’s Landing was well within Ned’s ability as Hand.

Even afterwards, forget not warning Cersei, if Ned had followed up on warning Cersei. Hell, if he’d followed up more aggressively with Stannis - Ned’s Hand of the King, he can send letters like “show up at court or provide a good explanation why not” - Ned could have been weeks ahead of himself.

Sansa’s actions don’t have much to do with Ned’s capture, I don’t think - they result in her own, yes, because neither she nor Arya could get on the ship planned to take them from King’s Landing, but Cersei was already planning to move against Ned when Sansa provided the info, and Ned told still more to Littlefinger afterwards.

Politically, Ned’s fundamental mistake is that he doesn’t realise that he is the boss. Between Robert’s inattention and Robert’s regard for him, Ned can do pretty much whatever he likes as long as it doesn’t bother Robert himself. Do we really think Robert’s going to go to Ned “whoa whoa whoa, you can’t just sack the treasurer!” and make that stick?

But even with everything, it’s simply Ned’s bad luck that he spends a bunch of critical chapters drugged as hell to manage the pain from his broken leg. The author kneecapped him so he couldn’t get away.

I’ve reread the relevant chapter several times, and as far as I can tell, events occur in this order:

————————————

Day 1:

Evening, after nightfall: Robert brought back from the boar hunt, mortally wounded. Makes his will naming Ned Lord Protector; Renly offers swords to Ned.

Later that night: Littlefinger offers to buy the gold cloaks for Ned. Instead he runs and blabs to Cersei and buys the goldcloaks for her.

Day 2

Hour before dawn: Renly and Loras flee the city

Dawn: Ned awakes to Lannister men practicing threateningly in the yard below his window

Breakfast: Arya is given permission for one last dancing lesson; Sansa is denied permission to say farewell to Joffrey. Ned does not explain why. Sansa cries and then runs to Cersei.

One hour later: Pycelle tells Ned that Robert is dead; Ned has Pycelle summon Small Council to the Tower of the Hand. Likely one of Pycelle’s servants or someone else informs Cersei. Ser Barristan, Varys, and Littlefinger arrive relatively quickly, say 15-30 minutes. Ned learns Renly is gone. The meeting lasts for perhaps ten minutes before Joffrey summons everyone to the throne room and the coup begins.

————————————

Whatever GRRM intended regarding Sansa’s role in the events of that day, the words he put on the page give her very little time/information to substantively affect the chain of events.

I was thinking about the scene between Varys and Illyrio in the red keep that Arya overheard and I really appreciate the irony of the master of whisper almost getting caugh in the exact same way he spies on other people.

Arya is essentially being an accidental little bird for Ned and it's both really deeply ironic (if Ned understood what Arya was saying, that might have screwed everything for them) and foreshadowing for the fact that she is essentially learning to be a spy now (maybe even better than him).

339 notes   •   VIA: perunikka   •   SOURCE: perunikka

image

I have made the asoiaf character pov chart, ranked from most to least, info taken from A Wiki of Ice and Fire.

I have counted the The Winds of Winter Chapters in the total sum, because they were counted in the Wiki as well. Though that would have changed the TOP 5 in the sense that Sansa would have 24 chapters instead of 25, so Catelyn would overtake her.

I really didn't think Tyrion would have the most chapters, that's 7 more than the second place! What's also really interesting to me is: how only 4 characters have had more than 30 chapters and how Arya was the only character to have a POV in every book that's been released.

Anonymous asked:

What is the difference between what Robb was doing in the Westerlands in ACOK and what Tywin was doing in the Riverlands? I feel like the Narrative is trying to tell us they’re different and that what Tywin was doing is outside the norm but I’m kinda confused

turtle-paced answered:

He went on to tell how the remnants of Ser Stafford’s host had fallen back on Lannisport. Without siege engines there was no way to storm Casterly Rock, so the Young Wolf was paying the Lannisters back in kind for the devastation they’d inflicted on the riverlands. Lords Karstark and Glover were raiding along the coast, Lady Mormont had captured thousands of cattle and was driving them back toward Riverrun, while the Greatjon had seized the gold mines at Castamere, Nunn’s Deep, and the Pendric Hills. 

Catelyn V, ACoK

Now, even in this passage, there’s differences. The raids Robb has been conducting are aimed at Tywin’s supply - coastal towns, cattle, and gold. There’s targeting there, some evaluation of their military value. As opposed to Tywin’s policy of “see a field, burn a field” policy in the Riverlands, which is purely inflicting suffering on civilians because fuck the person who’s nominally in charge of them. Robb’s raids cause collateral damage and that’s bad; with Tywin the pain of ordinary people is the point and that’s worse.

Also, to be blunt, Tywin started it. It sounds petty, but it’s another important note with Tywin. His actions force escalation and damage the chances of restoring peace. Given the chance, Robb would be leaving well enough alone. Tywin, not so much.

What I think the narrative is ultimately trying to say is that Robb is a different person to Tywin - but what I see here is that it doesn’t make much difference to random smallfolk whose lives have been upended. Or just ended.

Tywin and Robb can be different, with Robb clearly a better option than Tywin, and they can still both be doing things that are bad for the common people.

Also, far from endorsing Robb and demonizing Tywin for their respective wartime actions, I think the narrative does want us to question how much more noble Robb’s side was in its pursuit of war:

Below, Jaime made out the smouldering remains of a large building, and a live oak full of dead women.

The crows had scarcely started on their corpses. The thin ropes cut deeply into the soft flesh of their throats, and when the wind blew they twisted and swayed. “This was not chivalrously done,” said Brienne when they were close enough to see it clearly. “No true knight would condone such wanton butchery.”

The wench was staring up at one of the dead women. Jaime shuffled closer with small stutter steps, the only kind the foot-long chain permitted. When he saw the crude sign hung about the neck of the highest corpse, he smiled. "They Lay With Lions," he read. "Oh, yes, woman, this was most unchivalrously done … [sic] by your side, not mine.[”]

Did Robb send out terror agents to murder (and, given that their victims were sex workers or unofficially sex workers, very possibly rape) these women for having sex (or being subject to sex) with Lannister soldiers? Almost certainly not, and in that extremely limited sense we might give him more credit than we would Tywin Lannister (who very much did consciously and deliberately utilize terror agents, like Amory Lorch, Gregor Clegane, and Vargo Hoat, to set “the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork”). However, as Jaime points out, the designation of these women’s supposed crime as sex specifically with Lannister men clearly demonstrates that these murders were committed by men sworn to Robb Stark. That GRRM does not shy away from depicting the brutal and grisly nature of this atrocity, identifying its principals as Stark-sworn men, and indeed allows Jaime a mocking commentary on both aspects, indicates I think the author’s blatant desire to have his readers consider the nobility of Robb’s cause, or at the very least the execution (pun intended) of it, more carefully than they might have otherwise.

142 notes   •   VIA: mylestoyne   •   SOURCE: mylestoyne

thinking about….. the joncon line about how “[the men didn’t cry] of course, particularly not his father, who’s only love was land” and how sad the implications are from it, especially because we know that under his cold exterior he’s quite a romantic person who thinks about the people he loves very tenderly….. and I do think that in addition to being his lover and commander, myles was a father figure to jon and a better one than armond— jon calling him a father to his men, the fact that both pieces of dialogue we get from myles was him imparting wisdom/advice to jon. but despite his warmth and kindness and generosity to jon, that advice is still violent and brutal— telling him it’s a good thing to be feared, telling him that he could’ve won stoney sept if he had mass murdered innocent people. and of course the man myles brings up as an example is tywin, who is thee societal ideal for toxic masculinity and fatherhood. it really goes to show how deeply this violent patriarchal cycle is ingrained

Welcome!

asoiafuniversity is an archival meta blog. This blog is for reblogging purposes only. Per our policy, we do not answer meta questions here.

If you have a question like:

we will not answer it here, sorry! If you want your question about the series answered, we recommend that you:

All of the owners of asoiafuniversity frequently write meta. asongoftheories maintains a meta-writers rec list (currently under construction)

Please check our FAQ and our general tags page. We also have a comprehensive tags page with all of the tags used on the blog, and even a search page that can help you find any subject.

If you want to start an ASOIAF meta discussion on tumblr, we recommend you write the post on your own blog and tag it with relevant tags, such as the character name and #asoiaf meta. (Read more about the tag #asoiaf meta here.)

If you have a comment or suggestion and would prefer to ask anonymously, you can send an ask to our sideblog, askasoiafuniversity.

If you still need help or have a different kind of question, please ask away!