CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, the hosts and a special guest discuss why the Cavs’ Game 1 win over the Magic wasn’t a surprise and give their predictions for the first round.
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Takeaways:
- The Cavs’ fans created a lively and engaged atmosphere, showing up when it mattered the most.
- The team displayed playoff-level intensity and physicality, learning from their previous playoff experience.
- Darius Garland showed mental toughness and maturity, leading the team in the fourth quarter despite battling an injury and struggling in previous periods.
- Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen played a crucial role in the team’s defensive success, limiting the Magic’s scoring in the paint.
- The Cavs demonstrated their ability to respond to adversity and maintain composure, a significant improvement from previous seasons. The Cavs have a more versatile roster this year, with different options and playing styles to choose from.
- The Magic have exploitable weaknesses on offense and lack playoff experience.
- Donovan Mitchell’s performance and the Cavs’ success in the playoffs will play a significant role in his decision to stay with the team.
- The Cavs’ win in game one and their ability to make adjustments bode well for their chances in the series.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands (00:00.681)
What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. I’m joined by your favorite beat reporter, Chris Fedor, and we have a special guest on today’s pod, columnist from cleveland.com, Jimmy Watkins. What’s going on, guys? Chris, how you doing first?
Chris Fedor (00:30.742)
I’m good, what’s happening?
Ethan Sands (00:32.765)
Play off season, baby. Jimmy, how you feeling? Welcome to the pod.
Jimmy Watkins (00:37.65)
Still buzzing, still buzzing off that playoff atmosphere. Feeling good, Ethan.
Ethan Sands (00:42.501)
Man, I mean, can we just talk about first at four boats, how the rocket was rocking today? Like as much as the Cavs have talked about all week, how they needed the fans to show up, I think they showed up and showed out. Like I remember in high school dealing with white outs and high school basketball, football, all of those different affairs. And today was at a completely.
different level from any of that. And Chris, I know this isn’t your first rodeo, but what did that compare to what you witnessed at Rocky Mortgage or Quicken Loans as it used to be?
Chris Fedor (01:23.87)
Yeah, I think there’s something that we can always say about Cavs fans or just Cleveland sports fans in general guys. And that’s they show up when it matters the most. They understand the playoff intensity. They understand how to try and make it a hostile environment. So when it comes to playoff basketball, the crowd is going to be lively. The crowd is going to be engaged. The crowd’s going to be in their seats early, waving the towels, wearing the white shirts.
Creating as much of a home court advantage as they possibly can these fans in Cleveland have always taken pride in Being some of the best fans in the land no pun intended And and they tried to make it as hostile for the newbie magic as possible so kudos to the crowd They were into it from the very beginning But this isn’t surprising to me because Cleveland fans show out when it comes to playoffs
Ethan Sands (02:17.757)
Jimmy, I know this is also not your first rodeo, but what was your take on this as well?
Jimmy Watkins (02:19.005)
and they’re in tune and...
Chris Fedor (02:21.783)
Ha ha.
Jimmy Watkins (02:25.346)
Yeah, I don’t know that it’s quite like, you know, LeBron, Kyrie, Kevin Love core levels. I went to some of those playoff games as a member of the contingent. But I think, but I really, two things I would say. One, you really, I’ve already been watching a little bit back of the game today on YouTube or whatever. And you really, like, I don’t know if the broadcasts are like.
dumbing down the noise or what, but you really do miss an element of seeing it on TV. I’m sure it does sound like a good crowd on TV, but being in there, you kinda can’t hear yourself think. There was a person sitting in my row on press row who was literally hunched over because they had a headache from all the crowd noise, and I mean other noise. There’s a lot of noise going on in the arena during the game, but the crowd was really bringing it, and they bring it in a way that they’re following the action. When George Nhi Anh and...
Markel Foltz mix it up. They raised their level. It’s like a boxing crowd kind of. They follow the action a little bit. And when Isaac Okoro gets that early technical foul, I mean, it’s I guess not technically on the scoreboard the greatest thing for the Cavs. You’re giving them a free throw there, but they understand what that means for this group, right? Like that’s something that they are looking, like kind of the way we were looking for, like how are these guys gonna respond if it gets a little chippy?
the crowd was the same way and they loved seeing that from across. I think that’s another unique thing about this fan base. They understand the game.
Ethan Sands (03:57.457)
Yeah, and this was my first NBA playoff game, so I was already excited. I was telling...
Jimmy earlier, I was kind of more on the side of Donovan Mitchell not being able to get sleep last night leading up to the game. Jamie Bickerstaff said that he slept like a baby for the first time and I think that’s different variations of the spectrum. But I want to talk about what Jimmy was alluding to and the chippiness of the game, the physicality, the toughness. That is something that we have looked at for this matchup, this series.
Chris Fedor (04:08.974)
I’m sorry.
Ethan Sands (04:30.281)
coming in and Chris, I think from the very beginning, Darius Garland said that they wanted to throw the first punch, hit first, and don’t be the last person to get hit. And I don’t know if we’ve talked about this a lot either, but Darius Garland did some shoving in the first quarter as well. What did you take away from the overall physicality and the chippiness that the Cavs not only gave out, but also matched from the Orlando Magic?
Chris Fedor (04:58.594)
Playoff basketball, man. That’s what’s required. And I just felt like because the Cavs went through the series that they went through last year against the Burley Knicks, the Cavs left that series, even though it was disappointing, even though it was not competitive at all, even though it was a disappointment to the end of the season, they left that series and they understood better what playoff level physicality is, what playoff level toughness is.
what playoff level intensity is. And they, they had that understanding from the very beginning of today’s game against the Magic, whereas Orlando didn’t. Orlando was turning the ball over. Orlando seemed caught off guard. Orlando seemed rattled early in the game. Orlando was looking toward the whistle, um, trying to see if the referees were going to call something as they were driving to the basket.
So there’s just a knowledge that the Cavs had coming into the series based on everything that they experienced against the Knicks. And credit to the Cavs, they played with the level of intensity that’s required this time of year. They didn’t ease their way into the game. There were no surprises for them going into the game. Again, because of everything they dealt with against the Knicks. And for the most part, for about...
43 of the 48 minutes, I would say. They played with the level of physicality that’s going to be required throughout this entire series and the following series if the Cavs get that far.
Ethan Sands (06:34.665)
Jimmy, you talked about the technical fouls and the free throws that were being given up. Orlando shot 19 of 30 from the free throw line. That’s 63.3%. They were not.
executing at that part of the game, especially when the Cavs were kind of handing them fouls and opportunities. What did you take away from that and what the Cavs were able to do with the said technical fouls and just show that those were the chippiness that they needed, but also Orlando didn’t capitalize?
Jimmy Watkins (07:10.094)
Yeah, I think you could point to a few things that sort of denote where the Cavs have made progress in the physicality realm here. I think one is what you’re talking about. It’s not just, I mean, Orlando’s got to make more free throws, but I think the fact the Cavs got 21 free throws of their own.
pretty good sign because Orlando’s not really a team that, they’re a good team at drawing free throws. They also don’t foul very often in their own right. They’ve for most of the year been a pretty good team about defending without fouling. That’s encouraging. Rebounding, obviously a huge talking point coming out of the playoffs last year. The Cavs, what was it, 50 to 44 or something like that? Or no, 50 to 38 something like it was a comfortable.
Ethan Sands (07:53.405)
54 to 40. Yep, 54 to 40.
Jimmy Watkins (07:55.162)
54 to 40, yeah, in that realm. Mobley and Allen grabbed 29 themselves, Joe Allen 18, I think I saw that as a playoff career high for him. So we’re checking a lot of boxes. I even remember a very small, I’d have to go back and pinpoint when it was, sometime in the second half, Darius got matched up with Palo, I wanna say it was kind of a cross match and transition, and Palo put his body into him, and Darius just kinda ate it.
and then he was still there. And that’s just kind of a situation where like, nothing Darius can do there except eat it. There are just realities of size that he has to confront in that moment. So in every area of the game, you could see, and you can look back and look at the stat sheet, that they have learned something at least from last year’s playoff failure.
Chris Fedor (08:52.17)
And there’s one other thing here too, and this needs to be mentioned right off the... The magic are not the Knicks. We knew that coming into this series, right? A lot of the things that we believed coming in this series played out in game one, but... Playoffs are so much about matchups!
Playoffs are so much about the opponent. If the Cavs would have played the Nets in round one last year as opposed to the Knicks, like the discourse around the team would have been entirely different. So it’s like, it’s something that I’ve been thinking about for the last couple of weeks going into these playoffs.
There’s this whole question about the Cavs and whether they’re tough enough, and it’s clear. It’s clear teams around the NBA believe that the Cavs are soft. I was going to say a different word, but I didn’t want to use the vulgar term. Um.
And they test them in that kind of way, right? They test their physicality, they test their mental because they saw also what the Knicks were able to do to them. But I’ve said to a lot of people over the last couple of weeks, not every team is going to have the personnel and not every team is going to have the capability of beating up the Cavs the way that the Knicks did because not everybody has Josh Hart, not everybody has Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson is one of the best
Offensive rebounders of all time. That’s not hyperbole Right Julius Randall is a big bully underneath Isaiah Hartenstein is a great offensive rebounder He’s tough. He’s physical. He’s mature But was it that the Cavs weren’t tough period?
Chris Fedor (10:32.498)
Or was it they weren’t tough enough against that opponent, that group of players, that series? And I think there was like a breakdown in the reality of what happened in that series. And it shows it here in game one. It’s only game one. It’s the first to four wins. The Cavs have to win three more. But like the Magic don’t have Mitchell Robinson. So they can’t dominate the boards the same way that the Knicks did.
The Magic don’t have Josh Hart, so they’re not going to swallow as many offensive rebounds. The Magic don’t have Jalen Brunson, so some of the defensive issues that the Cavs had in terms of guarding Jalen Brunson that led to those offensive rebounds is not going to happen the same way in this kind of series. They don’t have Tom Thibodeau on the sidelines, right? They don’t have the level of experience and playoff know-how. All of the things that the Knicks were able to prey on.
this opponent is not going to be able to do it to the same level as New York.
Ethan Sands (11:38.813)
Yeah, Chris, and I mean, you talk about it. I got to talk with Darius Garland a little bit as he walked to the locker room after the game, and he was just like, one down, three to go. And I wanna start with Darius, because I know we talked a little bit about the bigger guys and we’re gonna get into that a little bit more in depth. But.
Darius was not having the best game offensively heading into the fourth quarter. He had four or five turnovers. He was not being able to get his shot off. I believe he had six points going into the fourth quarter, but he ended the game with eight points in the fourth quarter and he also had eight assists. But the biggest thing I think for Darius was the fact that
the way he went about his work. I know Jimmy, you mentioned that him just taking it from Paulo Bencaro and still standing there, but as JB Bickerstaff mentioned after the game, Darius has been dealing with a back injury or back stiffness that has.
made it difficult on him. Chris, I know we’ve talked about this in the past that he’s had a heating pad when he’s sitting down and looked like they even had an extra cushion for him today even during timeouts, not even at halftime, but like any time he came to the bench, he had some extra support there for when he was sitting down. And Chris.
Chris Fedor (12:48.875)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (13:02.393)
This is about mental toughness. This is about a guy who was young and needed to mature. And we saw that today from Darius Garland in my eyes. Something that we knew that he needed to take a step up in, which was the maturation process. And for him to do that in game one, knowing that his offensive game wasn’t where it needed to be, I think says a lot about.
Chris Fedor (13:05.55)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (13:27.969)
what is possible for him in this series and also how he can potentially lead when things might not be going his way. Jimmy, what do you think about how Darius responded to everything he faced today and what he’s been going through this entire season?
Jimmy Watkins (13:45.402)
Yeah, I think that’s the story of his season, right? Whether it’s the ankles that he was, the ankle he was battling earlier, or the long, I asked JB about Darius’s season pregame today, and JB said, I don’t think we give enough credit to everything, I mean, it’s been well documented. Chris went in depth with Darius when he came back about how much the broken jaw changed Darius’s day-to-day life, but I think, I think we as,
Media, we as observers of athletes in general, have a bad habit of just thinking, okay, he’s back now, so we’re good, we’re good. Nothing’s bothering him anymore. The readjustment period is probably longer than we think, and with an injury like that.
where it affects your day to day. And when he’s drinking through a straw and things of that nature, he lost all this weight. We would have these moments late half of the season where he’d have a game or a chord or whatever. He’d have a flash. I recognize that guy. You talked to him in the locker room afterwards. He’d give you some sort of nugget about like, yeah, I’m still not where I wanna be. I’m still trying to get my weight up or my conditioning up, whatever. That’s just a constant reminder that this guy’s been battling.
Chris Fedor (14:54.254)
Mm-hmm.
Jimmy Watkins (15:00.424)
on something the entire year. So when you talk about mental toughness, there is no better teacher of mental toughness than tough situations, I don’t think. And Darius has been through quite a few of those. Here’s another, of course, as he’s trying to sort of rehabilitate his reputation, along with the Cavs, against another big physical team, against a big physical defender in Jalen Suggs. And now he’s got this back thing.
that he’s dealing with and for that, I honestly, I think the Jalen Suggs might continue to give him problems with this series, but that fourth quarter is very encouraging.
Ethan Sands (15:38.921)
Chris, I know you got to talk to Darius postgame, what did you gather from that?
Chris Fedor (15:45.814)
Well, he said something that I think was right on and it showed maturation from the entire team. It showed that, yes, this is another sign that this group as a whole is different. They went into halftime, comfortable lead, 12-point lead early in the third quarter. Orlando turns up the physicality. They get a little bit more aggressive.
They extend their pressure. They made it difficult for the Cavs to get into their offensive sets because Jaylen Suggs is a menace on defense. I have a vote for NBA awards and he was on my second team, all defense. He’s that caliber defender. He’s that level disruptive. So Orlando’s making this run and they cut it to five. And in past games in past years, Darius even admitted this. Um, he’s.
He basically said that they would have folded, that the Cavs would have folded in the face of that. And he’s right. You know, when the Knicks cranked it up to that level last year in the first round, the Cavs did. They wilted. They started looking toward the officials. They weren’t able to play through contact. They didn’t know how to steady themselves. They didn’t know.
how to respond to that the best way. And for the Cavs to face that against Orlando, we understand that Orlando has weaknesses. Orlando is the worst offense in the entire playoffs. So it’s not like, you know, just because the Cavs are able to do this, it’s going to happen in the next round if they face the Celtics and beyond and beyond, beyond. But we’re talking about the series as it is, and this is the opponent. So for Orlando to make that run, cut it to five.
feel really good about themselves, start chirping again, the Cavs kept their composure, they kept their poise, and they did not allow that to spiral out of control. They responded the way that you need to respond.
Chris Fedor (17:50.106)
when it comes to postseason basketball. And I thought that was a big step forward for somebody like Darius. I thought that was a big step forward for the team as a whole. And Donovan even mentioned it. That could have gone one of two ways, right? That could have been the Cavs undoing in game one. They didn’t allow it to be that. And they finished the quarter on a 13 to two run. They grabbed control again, and they led by 15 going into the fourth quarter because...
all of the things that Orlando was trying to throw at them, the Cavs were able to respond to. And that was a big deal for them.
Ethan Sands (18:27.549)
Yeah, Kristen, I mean, the Cavs have shown that they are a defensive team. Sure, Orlando is not a good offensive team, but the Cavs held Orlando to its second lowest total of the season with 83 and worst field goal and three point percentages of the season. So sure, they could have got some help because the Magic just simply weren’t making shots, but.
I think it also turns to what we talked about coming into this series that it was going to be defensive minded but the Cavs were also going to have to get their money’s worth on the offensive end. And I think that starts with the two big men on both sides of the ball and Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen because we knew that the twin towers were going to have to shut down Paolo
Ethan Sands (19:21.385)
Jarrett Allen had 18 by himself. So to say that Jarrett Allen was doing his dirty work and we talk about what that means for toughness.
That’s a big thing for me. And then Evan Mobley started the game with two three-pointers that made the Orlando Magic switch their entire defensive mindset and maybe even lean out to him on the defensive end if he was on the perimeter as well. It just seemed like from the jump, Jarrett and Evan were on a mission and wanted to prove something to not only themselves, but to everybody watching. And...
Chris, I know we were talking about these two being focal points for this series, but what was your impression and your initial reaction to how they came out in game one?
Chris Fedor (20:10.874)
So that’s the thing guys. I mean, I think there’s an understanding by everybody that watches basketball, including the Cavs, the coaches, the front office. These people aren’t dummies, right? They know what they’re doing. They know what they’re talking about. There’s an understanding that when it comes to Jarrett and Evan, there are, let’s say, limitations to how good the Cavs can be on the offensive end. They’re two non-shooters. They’re going to congest the paint.
Evan every now and then is going to make threes just like he did at the beginning of the game, which was a big moment for him, but he’s not a high volume three point shooter. In his career, he’s never taken more than four in one single game. So he’s still going to do his best work inside, just like Jarrett Allen.
So there’s going to be some congestion. There are going to be some moments where it doesn’t look as aesthetically pleasing. Because both those guys out there can get in each other’s way. So with them on the court, it’s not like the Cavs were great offensively. They had 93.6 offensive rating with those guys in the 23 minutes together. I mean, that is, it’s awful, right? But what you believe...
that with them on the court You’re going to be an elite defense. It’s going to change how the opponent has to approach you It’s going to allow the Cavs to make a bad offense like the Orlando Magic Even worse and take away their greatest path to offensive success, which is the paint That’s what the magic do. They run a lot of ISOs. They put their head down. They charge into the paint
They score a bunch of points in the paint. But the Cavs are one of the best teams in the NBA when it comes to protecting the paint. Why? Because they have Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley together. And with those guys on the floor, the Cavs can be an elite defense. And there’s always going to be some give and take. But in this particular series, that is probably going to be low scoring, that requires a lot of size.
Chris Fedor (22:25.494)
that requires great defense, especially on the inside, playing Jarrett and Evan together makes a whole lot of sense for the Cavs, and today they showed why on the defensive end of the floor.
Ethan Sands (22:38.793)
Yeah and Jimmy I know you’ve seen the progression over this season especially after Evan Mobley came back from an arthroscopic surgery on his knee and he knew that if he wanted to be continued in this offense and have a role and make sure that he was contributing that three point shot needed to increase and hitting the first two to start the series I think that’s a pretty good sign. What did you think?
Jimmy Watkins (23:05.134)
I agree and I think almost equally as good a sign is the way he punished the Cole Anthony mismatch. I couldn’t tell in real time if that was happening, like they were actually guarding him with Cole Anthony, if that was happening on switches or what, but a couple of times where that’s just the matter, and they’re not really helping either. They’re like, the Orlando Magic are signaling, we think this guy can guard you, even though he’s, I don’t know how exactly tall Cole Anthony is, but like eight inches shorter than you. And the first time,
Evan hit him with a mean drop step and a power dunk. And the second time, he actually kinda got rebuffed a little bit, but he stuck with it, stepped through, scored, and by the way, if he hadn’t have scored, he would have had the second effort. He would have tipped it back in. So that’s another really small moment, but two small moments that show huge progress for him because I don’t know if 21 year old Evan Mobley making his first.
playoff appearance would have handled that situation the exact same way. You know, like he had, there was so much else going on. Again, it helps that it’s the Magic and not the Knicks, but I think that shows that.
he has come a long way mentally. He sees Cole Anthony and he says, that’s food for me. Like I need to, this is disrespectful. I cannot let them even believe that this is a tangible strategy for them to try. And to the point about them playing together, Alan and Mobley playing together, I like the way JV talked about it. I think it was after the game. Someone asked him about like, how he wants to decide when to stick with them and when to go with one of them.
Chris Fedor (24:20.427)
Yeah.
Jimmy Watkins (24:43.542)
And he kind of played it situationally. He said, if we have a, if we have a lead to protect, I want them out there because we’re going to, that those two on the floor together are going to make it hard for other teams to close the gap because we’re going to be focused on defense. Right. The flip side of that we saw in when the offense was getting bogged down in the third quarter, so what I’m writing about tomorrow when Orlando’s cutting it to five, I think they got it too. And then they, JB, I don’t know if how close this was to Evan’s normal resting spot anyways, but.
Chris Fedor (24:53.782)
Right. Yep.
Jimmy Watkins (25:12.89)
JB puts George Niang in for Evan. One of the very first plays after that, Darius Gardland fakes a pass to an open George Niang, which gets at least two, maybe three, I’ve watched a couple of times, Orlando Magic defenders to bite and gets Jarrett Allen a wide open dunk under the basket. And then that sort of kick starts like this, I think it was an 18 to 2 run that blew the game open. There’s also another play where Karis LaVert is driving. It’s a pick and pop with George Niang.
and Karis Lavert looks back for like half a second at George Niang, Palo Bencaro skirts back to the three point line that lets Karis get a layup and I think he drew a foul on that one as well. So it’s just like, I’m trying to write this in a way where it’s not like, oh, see, it can’t work together because look, George Niang, they made the run when George Niang was in the game. It’s about having, it’s like toggling options, right? Like sometimes the Cavs are gonna wanna be an elite defense.
Chris Fedor (26:05.502)
Yes.
Jimmy Watkins (26:09.886)
Sometimes they’re gonna wanna sacrifice a little defense because they know they need a little bit more boost. The beauty of the Orlando Magic, as we saw today, you can still be a pretty good defense with George Niang occupying one of those front court spots because, and I don’t wanna like spend too much of this time dunking on the Magic because the Magic, despite their terrible shooting numbers for the season and today, they are going to make more shots as this series progresses. They are gonna get more comfortable in their play-up, maybe, I don’t know.
Chris Fedor (26:10.039)
Yes.
Yes.
Ethan Sands (26:22.798)
Ha ha
Chris Fedor (26:36.783)
Maybe.
Jimmy Watkins (26:38.03)
It would be hard to miss as many as they are missing for the first three quarters today, but they’re gonna do better, I would assume. So that’ll change the equation a little bit, but I think that’s another important point when we’re talking about Allen and Mobley. They don’t always have to play together to be able to coexist.
Chris Fedor (26:40.278)
Hehehe
Chris Fedor (26:54.186)
Right. See, that’s the difference between this year’s roster and last year’s roster. Jimmy, you hit on it. It’s one of the key differences. Every time JB last year in the series against the Knicks tried to make some kind of lineup adjustment or rotational adjustment, he was sacrificing something. All right, if I’m going to go to Jettie Osman, that’s cool because I’m getting a little bit of floor spacing. He can get out in transition. Maybe we can play faster. Create some movement offensively.
But oh my god, what does that mean for our defense? All right, cool, I’ll try Lamar Stevens, maybe possibly. Get a little bit of toughness, but I don’t get a whole lot of offense there. The situation now, if George Nian can hold up on the defensive end of the floor, you don’t feel like you’re sacrificing as much. You know what I mean? You have various pieces on this chessboard that can move in different ways. Do we need the shooting of Sam Merrill?
Do we need the size and the toughness of Tristan Thompson? We’ve got that as an option. Do we need George Niang, his floor spacing, his three point shooting? We’ve got that as an option. When you’re in a playoff series and it’s about trying to make adjustments and it’s trying to figure out different lineups and combinations, you have to have a bunch of different options. You have to have a bunch of different pathways to offensive success and defensive success. You can’t just play the same style.
for seven games in a playoff series. Sometimes you’re gonna play big, sometimes you’re gonna play small, sometimes you’re gonna play fast, sometimes you’re gonna play slow, sometimes you’re gonna play with shooting, sometimes you’re gonna play in the inside. The Cavs have a better roster this year with more options and JB Bickerstaff is depending on how the game is going is going to try and use those to the best of his advantage. And I think that’s one of the best
improvements that the Cavs have made from a roster construction standpoint is that instead of, for a chess term, instead of having a bunch of pawns that move the same exact way like last year, you’ve got a knight, you’ve got a bishop, you’ve got a pawn, you’ve got a queen, and they all have different things that make them valuable to this particular team.
Ethan Sands (29:17.909)
JB Bickerstav is at the head of the chessboard just moving pieces Chris. I like that analogy
Chris Fedor (29:23.85)
I mean, we’ll see. We’ll see how that continues throughout the course of this series, but at least the options are there for him in a way that they weren’t last year. And by the way, like I wonder if Jamal Mosley even has um, a playable five man lineup when it comes to both ends of the floor. Like it feels very similar to the Cavs where each guy that he goes to
It’s like he’s making a big sacrifice at one end or the other, and he’s going to have to find some kind of working five-man lineup. He definitely did not find one in game one.
Jimmy Watkins (30:01.146)
Yeah, how much pick and roll action is Joe Ingalls jump shot worth to you?
Chris Fedor (30:07.442)
Right. That’s exactly right. And like how much can we get away with Cole Anthony? We need his scoring off the bench. This is what the Magic are thinking. We need his scoring off the bench He was our leading scorer off the bench But if we’re a switch heavy defense and that’s kind of the way that we think it’s best to operate against the Cavs like
How do we do that with him on the floor? Because it could end up with him on Evan Mobley again, or it could end up with him on Jarrett Allen again, or it could end up with him on George Niang again. So those are the primary questions that both sides are going to be asking going into game two when it’s about adjustments, when it’s about making changes, altering your schemes, things along those lines. I’m going to be fascinated to see what both sides do to try and combat those things.
Ethan Sands (30:58.897)
Yeah, and it’s gonna be interesting because obviously the Cavs had success in holding a team under 85 points, which Jarrett Allen said was the threshold coming into the series, is something that I don’t think we actually thought was gonna happen because 83 is low, dog. Like, that is... like, that’s horrible. But...
Chris Fedor (31:09.21)
Hahaha
Chris Fedor (31:18.143)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (31:20.637)
understanding what the Cavs were able to do matchup wise and I think like you said Jimmy the disrespect of putting Cole Anthony on Evan Mobley I remember seeing Chris tweeted out while it was happening and I was like wait, hold on This is this isn’t a switch What is going on and that’s the thing that I think this team has continued to do
at a better clip than they were last year, is making sure that they understand who’s on who, what the matchups look like, and taking advantage of said matchups as well. But I think we all wrote columns about what we think is going to happen in this series, as long as, talking about how it ends, and...
I say Cavs in six, Chris, I believe you said Cavs in six. Jimmy, I believe you said Cavs in six. So I just wanna get your guys’ points of views of why six games and why the Cavs are gonna walk away with this series. Chris, let’s start with you.
Chris Fedor (32:25.198)
I just think all of the things that we believed to be true about both of these teams coming into the series played out in game one, right? And I just think the playoffs are so much about exploiting weaknesses, finding the strengths of the other team and trying to mask those as much as you possibly can and exposing flaws, and I just felt coming into this series
that the Magic had more exploitable weaknesses. And it felt a lot like last year’s Cavs. And the two biggest differences, I think, between the two teams are shooting and experience. And the Magic looked like a team, one, that couldn’t generate consistent enough offense, and two, a team that was a little bit blinded by the lights.
that they didn’t know what to expect when it came to playoff basketball. They didn’t know what playoff level physicality was because they had never felt it before because they had never experienced it before. And there are growing pains that come with that. So those two things stood out to me in a big way in game one. And I just don’t know how over the course of a seven game series, the magic are going to consistently remedy those things.
Look, against top six defenses in the NBA, Orlando, and the Cavs were seven by the way, so close enough. Against top six defenses in the NBA, the Magic were five and ten. They had an offensive rating of like 104. They just don’t have a lot of pathways to offensive success. Especially against a team that protects the paint as well as the Cavs do. Especially against a team that has enough size.
to deal with them in the same kind of way. So I just think shooting and inexperience is going to continue to be a theme in this series. And it just feels like the Magic overachieved in the regular season. And they’re a team that needs to take the step that the Cavs needed to take last year against the New York Knicks and get their butt whooped so they can understand that their weaknesses a little bit better.
Chris Fedor (34:50.342)
And so that they can learn the lessons that are required for a young, developing up and coming team.
Ethan Sands (34:57.085)
Jimmy go ahead, because I’m intrigued how you follow that up.
Jimmy Watkins (35:02.002)
I’m of two minds here. I try to not overreact too much after a bad game one and that was, I mean, I know 83 points does seem low, but watching it live seems high. Seems like they scored, seems like they scored 63. But two things that stand out, one of the reasons that I had...
Ethan Sands (35:12.775)
Hahaha!
Jimmy Watkins (35:23.642)
to be alarmed for the Cavs, because I just see Paolo Bancaro on a true superstar track, and I thought he could be one of the rare young guys who shines in the playoff environment pretty quickly. Nine fricking turnovers today, nine. That is a lot. That is an alarming number.
Chris Fedor (35:39.446)
He averages like 5.3 against the Cavs.
Jimmy Watkins (35:43.062)
Yeah, so again, we have a track record with that. Well, that’s something that could be repeatable. Something I’m not sure will be repeatable. The Cavs missing, is it 18 straight threes at one point? 18, 19, whatever. They are a better shooting team than they were last year. If there was a game where Orlando was gonna steal one on the road, probably would have been the game where the Cavs miss 18 straight threes at a certain point, right?
Chris Fedor (35:55.319)
Yeah.
Jimmy Watkins (36:12.558)
So if I had to, I might right now, I’m tempted to change it to Cavs in five right now, but I still do think that Orlando’s defense can put the Cavs in some really uncomfortable positions as the series progresses, and they can turn that into transition opportunities where they won’t have to play against a set Cavs defense. And you know what they always say, the series don’t start.
till the home team loses a game. So right now it’s status quo. I’m feeling good about my Cavs pick right now. Not feeling good about the Orlando Magic in basically any way after watching them play live today, but time will tell.
Chris Fedor (36:58.318)
Jimmy to your point, the Cavs finished today with an offensive rating below 100, which is, I mean it is wretched, but it was never competitive. Think about that.
Jimmy Watkins (37:12.986)
I know. By the way, that’s worse than their offensive rating was against the Knicks last year.
Chris Fedor (37:17.322)
I know, I know, even worse. And you’re right, the Magic, they can defend, right? But there’s only so much defense that you can play in the playoffs. At some point you gotta score. At some point your offense has to be a little bit more dynamic. The Cavs had the best defense in the NBA in the postseason last year against the Knicks. And it got them on a Cancun flight.
at the end of April. So it’s like at some point you have to consistently score the basketball and I just don’t know how the magic are going to generate consistent dynamic offense against this particular defense. It’s offense is going to be a chore for both teams this entire series. There’s a reason why it’s on NBA TV.
Ethan Sands (38:01.321)
Ha ha, come on!
Jimmy Watkins (38:01.658)
Wow. Also, we should also mention, I don’t know that Donovan Mitchell is back yet, but he looked pretty darn good today.
Chris Fedor (38:09.342)
Yeah, I mean the spinning the spinning move into the assist was a big moment for Donovan that showed a lot of flexibility agility Change of direction those kinds of things you weren’t really seeing consistently in the second half of the season His second dunk since the all-star break, even though it was a breakaway. He bounced off the court like a trampoline It seemed like he was creating more space on some of his jumpers It seemed like he was
Ethan Sands (38:10.053)
Yeah, I was.
Chris Fedor (38:38.938)
more attack minded, willing to get into the lane, crash the defense, see if he could finish through contact. There were a lot of signs that were definitely more positive than a majority of what we saw from the Cavs and Donovan specifically in the second half of the season. That’s the other variable to this whole thing. The Cavs theoretically have the best player in this series, provided he plays to that level.
And today Donovan met the star standard.
Ethan Sands (39:10.717)
Yeah, and I mean, I was gonna get to this because I know we love to get into what Donovan Mitchell means to this team. But before we do that, just really quickly, the Cavs are 17 and one after winning the first game in a playoff series. That’s huge, first of all. Second of all.
Jimmy Watkins (39:31.43)
Shout out LeBron. Shout out LeBron for that one.
Chris Fedor (39:32.586)
Yeah, thank LeBron for that one. I don’t think LeBron’s walking through that door anytime soon, but... No, no. Great staff for LeBron, though. Just shows how great he is.
Jimmy Watkins (39:38.426)
Not a Mark Price stat.
Ethan Sands (39:38.75)
I agree with that.
Ethan Sands (39:45.537)
And two, I know we were talking about Paolo Banquero and his nine turnovers. One of the guys that doesn’t get a lot of love defensively on this team is George Nyang. And George Nyang is one of the better defensive players on Paolo Banquero this season, and especially in tonight. So I think that’s interesting to point out and just see what he’s able to do in that power forward spot. And I know what he brings offensively in the spacing, as Jimmy has mentioned and Chris has mentioned, but. But.
We gotta give him credit on what he did with Palo on defense as well. But I do wanna talk about Donovan to end the podcast because I think it’s interesting. Did I hear this right in the post game press conference? Donovan grew up a Cavs fan?
Chris Fedor (40:31.275)
Yeah, that’s well documented.
Ethan Sands (40:33.141)
Right. So him coming into the arena and hearing music and being able to go back to being a kid is something that media has not talked about enough clearly to think that he’s not happy in Cleveland and to say that, well, okay, you are someone that loves this team probably more than people recognize and to that.
Chris Fedor (40:38.423)
Oh yeah.
Ethan Sands (41:01.649)
He is on a team that not only supports him on the court, but also is available to create a space for him to grow and become the player in the NBA that he wants to be, which if you would read Chris’s feature on Donovan Mitchell, you would know is one of the faces of the NBA.
Chris Fedor (41:24.678)
Yes. Hold. No, go ahead, Jimmy.
Jimmy Watkins (41:24.818)
I think this is another, go ahead Chris.
Jimmy Watkins (41:30.87)
Donovan as a Cavs fan feels like another shout out LeBron moment to me, you know?
Ethan Sands (41:35.186)
Ha ha ha!
Chris Fedor (41:35.259)
Yes. That’s what it was.
Jimmy Watkins (41:37.974)
Yeah, he was a LeBron fan, which means he was a Cavs fan. Like, because he was a LeBron fan, he also knows about Iron Noobl and Delante West and Anderson Veruzov and all those guys. But it’s Sascha Pavlovich. But it’s, I don’t know that is gonna necessarily play a role in what’s gonna happen after this postseason. And I think a lot of people would look at Cleveland as a-
Chris Fedor (41:49.878)
Sasha Pavlovich.
Jimmy Watkins (42:07.018)
neg against Donovan’s quest to be the face of the league, right? Because it’s not the most, I mean LeBron did it, but he’s LeBron. So, I don’t know.
Chris Fedor (42:21.622)
That’s the thing. I mean, there are so many different factors that are going to play into whether Donovan stays, whether he goes. But I truly believe that the primary factor is going to come down to whether he, whether he believes this organization is truly ready to compete for a championship. And that is, that is still something that remains to be seen, right? And that isn’t something that is determined.
based on a game one win against a lesser opponent in the Orlando Magic. So we’ll continue to have the running Donovan Mitchell conversation because it is something that looms over this organization. It’s something that is not going away. It is something that everybody is going to have to figure out this offseason. But Donovan’s all about winning and he wants to compete for championships and he is tired.
of being the guy who can’t get past the second round. If the Cavs show him somehow some way that they can continue to have playoff success and they can find a way to get past the second round.
That is probably the best pitch that they can make to Donovan Mitchell. If Evan Mobley shows a level of readiness in these playoffs, where he can be more like the guy that he was today against the Magic, as opposed to the guy last year against the Knicks, that-
tells a lot to Donovan Mitchell. Right. That’s a really, really good pitch. If Darius Garland can play the way that he did in the fourth quarter for all four quarters throughout the course of this series against Orlando and show a level of maturity and a level of development. That’s a good pitch too. Right. So all of these things still have to continue to play themselves out throughout the course of, of this postseason run, however long it goes for the Cavs.
Chris Fedor (44:17.162)
It was a good start though.
Ethan Sands (44:18.737)
Yeah, and Chris, I know we have talked on at length about the importance of the playoffs and what it means to die within him staying. I just thought it was funny that the conversation never was about games when it came to national media. It was always, he hates it in Cleveland. He doesn’t wanna be in Cleveland. And I’m just sitting here and I’m like, he grew up watching this team play. He like, it’s different for me. And you know, I’m an emotional guy, getting into those kinds of things, but.
Chris Fedor (44:45.407)
Yeah.
Of course.
Ethan Sands (44:48.745)
I just think it’s important to know what Donovan means to this team and what he means to this city and also what this playoff series and what this playoff run means to Donovan. But
Chris Fedor (45:01.31)
Yo, the Cavs going to In the Air Tonight was a stroke of genius. That brings back the best memories of basketball in this city. Um, all I kept thinking was where is Kyrie to do the drum solo? Because every time they played In the Air Tonight, before the NBA finals, Kyrie would be in the middle of his warmups. He would drop the basketball or he would pick it up and he would do the drum solo.
If you can’t get amped knowing the history of that song in that building with this organization, you are a robot.
Ethan Sands (45:40.029)
Jimmy, do you have any final words before we close out today’s podcast?
Jimmy Watkins (45:46.355)
Uh, beep boop? No. Um...
Chris Fedor (45:48.162)
Hahaha!
Jimmy Watkins (45:50.834)
I just said to the Chris’s point about Donovan, like, we’re not having this conversation now. We’re not having it if they sweep the magic. We’re not having it if they go up 2-0 on the Celtics, like, yeah, I beat the Celtics, and maybe then some. That’s where we’re at with Donovan.
Ethan Sands (46:07.881)
I mean, cause that’s what we’ve said that Donovan says is a successful season. Not the first round, not the semi-finals. He wants conference finals and NBA finals. That’s what he wants. But we will talk more as this series continues and as far as the Cavs go. But until next time, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the wine and gold talk podcast. But remember
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