Why Jaylon Tyson was the right choice for the Cavs at No. 20: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, the hosts discuss the Cavs’ No. 20 overall selection in the 2024 NBA Draft and why they believe Jaylon Tyson was the right choice.

Takeaways:

• The Cavs made a calculated decision with the No. 20 pick, selecting who they perceived to be the best available option but also the best fit for the organization.
• Jaylon Tyson’s skillset and experiences throughout college have prepared him for whatever the NBA throws at him.
• Being coached under Mark Madsen — a former NBA coach — will benefit Tyson. Madsen also has a similar coaching style to new head coach Kenny Atkinson.
• Tyson’s workout with the Cavs displayed the mental and physical toughness that the Cavs are looking to continue adding to their roster.
• His size as a wing but ability to create for himself and others allows Tyson the versatility to potentially play multiple positions for the Cavs.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of The Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. I’m joined by your favorite beat reporter, Chris Fedor. Chris, it’s a late one, or as some might say, an early one. Good morning to you, sir. It is about two in the morning when we’re recording this. This will air around five in the morning somehow, but how are you feeling? It’s been a long day.

Chris Fedor (00:34.916)

Man man. All this for the 20th overall pick who is going to struggle to find playing time as a rookie.

Ethan Sands (00:45.265)

Man, man. So yeah, that’s a great place to start because the Cavs had the number 20 overall pick in the NBA draft on Wednesday. The second round will begin on Thursday. But Jalen Tyson, the only pick that the Cavs have as of right now, was selected with the number 20 overall pick. And he’s the guy that we talked about before the draft happened. And Chris,

Chris Fedor (00:46.628)

It’s true.

Ethan Sands (01:14.385)

There was a lot of skepticism from fans about his size, about why the Cavs went and got him with the 20th overall selection. And the one thing I do want to say is he’s 6 ‘6″, 6 ‘7″. He’s a wing, which we talked about the Cavs wanting to go get. He’s matured. He’s three years into his college career, now into his NBA career, his rookie year. And

Chris Fedor (01:29.732)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (01:41.329)

You understand that he is a guy that could be added to the second unit as soon as he gets to the NBA depending on how he messes with the squad. So Chris, what is your initial reaction to the selection of Jaylin Tyson?

Chris Fedor (02:00.292)

Well, I asked a scout in the days leading up to the draft about Jalen Tyson. And one of the things that I always ask is draw some kind of NBA comparison so that I can get a feel for who this guy is, who this guy could eventually be based on his size, based on his skill set, based on everything that you have seen from him during his time in college and based on what you project him to be.

And the name that came up was Miami Heat swingman, Caleb Martin. He’s not the biggest guy in the world. He’s six foot five. But during the Miami Heat run to the NBA finals, he was playing power forward for them in a small ball lineup. So I think sometimes size can be overblown. I think when it comes to calves, like it becomes a bigger deal because you’re already dealing with some smaller guys at certain positions.

But I never watched Jalen Tyson play and felt like size or strength or toughness was going to be a hindrance for him at the NBA level. So I think this was a guy that was on the Cavs radar. I think this is a guy who, look, you and I, we went through our own list of guys that we thought were a good fit for the Cavs with the 20th pick.

And we had four matches when we did that, right? We had four matches. Yeah, we had four matches when we did that. the other one we were debating. but the four matches were Kyle Filipowski, Johnny Furphy, Tristan De Silva, and Caleb Martin. the guys that we thought were realistically going to be available to the Cavs that were realistically going to be considered by the Cavs. Did I say Caleb Martin? I think I said Caleb Martin. Jalen Tyson as the fourth one.

And so I always thought that he was somebody that made sense for the Cavs. They need more wings. They need some lineup versatility. They need some positional versatility. They need a guy who can create for himself and create for others. And I think the idea of Jalen Tyson down the road is a big wing who can

Chris Fedor (04:21.572)

service a secondary ball handler and take some of the offensive pressure off of Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell. And I know this is farther down the road, but Keris Leverts entering the final year of his contract. And there are some similarities in terms of play style between those two guys. So in the short term, I don’t really know how much this is going to help the Cavs. We’ve talked about

how much limited playing time is available for whoever this pick was going to be at number 20, but I think the idea of him based on his skill set is logical and certainly first round worthy.

Ethan Sands (05:03.217)

Yeah, I think we talked about it before. Like this guy is someone that we saw in highlights and in film that was able to handle the rock, was able to create his own shot. And we talked about it. He did everything when he was in California. He was their number one guy. And we know that the Calisthenics are looking for other people that are comfortable scoring.

on the road, creating their own shot, doing those kinds of things. And to get a guy that was considered the number one option, that’s a good fit for me because then you get them into Kenny Atkinson system who will talk about being reportedly agreeing to a five year deal with the Cavs that still is has not been made official by the Cavs as of yet, but that is coming soon. And but getting

Tyson into Kenny Atkinson’s system and understanding that it’s easier to go from a number one guy that was used to carrying the rock and understanding that he’s someone who models his game as he said, and which is ironic that you talk to a scout and said this, after Caleb Martin and Josh Hart. Guys that are not guys that particularly have the ball in their hands all the time. Guys that are willing to do the dirty work, go get 50 -50 balls.

And that’s what I like about this guy is he understands that even though he was that dude, that guy in California, there is a role that he’ll have to fill in to when he gets to the Cavs, especially knowing that everybody knows if Donovan Mitchell signs an extension, this is Donovan Mitchell’s team. But I think just, mm -hmm.

Chris Fedor (06:42.02)

Mm -hmm. And I think the other thing that’s interesting to point out and look, the Pac -12 is not the greatest basketball conference in the world, despite the fact that the late Bill Walton kind of proclaimed it as the Conference of Champions. It certainly fell off in recent years, but he’s a guard, he’s a wing, however you want to classify him.

He was seventh in the conference in rebounding. So, you know, he was able to hold his own. He was able to play bigger than what he’s listed as. He was able to guard multiple positions. He played the one, two and three at various points when he was at Cal. So I just don’t think the size thing is that much of a problem for the Cavs because I just think sometimes there are certain guys that played bigger.

and find a way to be effective in different realms and for him to be able to rebound the ball the way that he did with the size that he has I think speaks to a lot of I think it speaks to a lot of different things, but but I think it also shows Obviously the NBA is not the Pac -12, but but it shows that that he can handle

toughness, he can handle physicality, he can get his nose in there and get the 50 -50 balls and battle bigger, stronger guys for rebounds and stuff like that.

Ethan Sands (08:19.633)

So yeah, just to touch on that because you did briefly, Chris, his numbers are phenomenal. And that’s something that we understand and we knew going in. But...

In his junior season at Cal, he averaged 19 .6 points per game, 6 .8 rebounds, 3 .5 assists, and 1 .2 steals. He was the first team all packed 12 with California. Like, and over his final two seasons, where he played in all 62 games, he shot 47 .4 % from the field and 38 .1 % from beyond the arc. And we know that he’s working to improve his outside shot.

which is something that he needs to do on a consistent basis, but 38 .1 % ain’t nothing to sneeze at if you’re playing all the games and you’re also being tasked with getting to the rim, being physical and doing everything on both ends of the floor. And it’s something that I think is definitely something to look at. But the other thing, as I was mentioning Kenny Atkinson, Tyson was playing under Mark Madsen in California.

Chris Fedor (09:02.948)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (09:26.801)

Mert Madsen’s a guy who was a assistant coach and a player development coach with the Los Angeles Lakers. He’s also the head coach of the Lakers’ D -League team. And just understanding that you have a coach that has been to that level. He also played in the NBA. And you understand that he has a different know -how, a different understanding of what it takes to be able to change your game from the college stage to the NBA stage. And having those...

Chris Fedor (09:26.948)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (09:55.857)

Kind of conversations is something that’s going to help him going forward and also Atkinson is a kind of similar minded coach to mark Mattson if you if you would ask me because They both were player development guys from the beginning They both got respect from different coaches around the NBA around the league that know ball know the game and know what it takes to help these players develop so

Jaylen Tyson getting plugged into Kenny Atkinson’s system after working with Mark Madsen I think is probably one of the better situations that could have happened for him and also for the Cavs.

Chris Fedor (10:34.404)

I also think it helps him that the Cavs don’t need him immediately. He didn’t enter a situation where they’re going to ask too much of him too soon. They can develop him properly. They can let him play through his mistakes. They can let him learn some things off to the side before getting meaningful reps and meaningful playing time. They can find a way to continue to work on his shot.

Continue to get him more comfortable playing off the ball. That’s going to be an adjustment for him because he’s used to having the ball in his hands He’s used to running the show as general manager Mike Gansy said tonight in his post draft press conference Tyson had the ball 95 % of the time while he was at Cal So he’s going to have to learn how to fit a role He’s going to have to learn how to be a lower volume lower usage type player

He’s going to have to learn how to blend into the fabric of an offense and those things take time. It’s going to take an adjustment. So he’s able to go through those kinds of things and look if the Cavs need him in a pinch, if you know, he makes it hard for Kenny Atkinson to keep him off the floor. If he battles in training camp and he earns more of an opportunity, then so be it. That’s the way that it goes. But he didn’t enter a team.

that is looking for him to contribute immediately and play big minutes as a rookie and have a big role within the fabric of the team. Also defensively is going to be a big swing thing for him. If he can hold up on defense, then you’re talking about somebody who is a solid rotational wing for a playoff contending team. And that’s really, really good to get at number 20. But again,

It’s going to be up to him to become a better defender. It’s going to be up to him to understand defensive schemes and put more effort at that end of the floor and stuff like that. But if he does do that and if he can hold his own on defense, which he did not do when he was at Cal, then you’re talking about somebody who is probably a hit with the 20th pick because I don’t have a lot of questions, Ethan, about his offense.

Chris Fedor (12:56.196)

his ability to be a three level score, his ability to be a playmaker, a secondary playmaker, his ability to finish around the rim, get into the paint, create for himself, create for others. It’s more about the defense and can he adapt to not being on the ball consistently.

Ethan Sands (13:17.009)

Yeah, and I think you mentioned it with Mike Gansy talking about defense and how he’ll have to improve that. But we also understand that him being around potentially Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, that’s going to help erase some of the issues immediately. But also there is a culture of defense that sure could possibly shift more towards offense this next season. But this team has been known for defense for the last five years and just being around guys that have that mental mind.

Chris Fedor (13:30.532)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (13:46.915)

mindset to begin with could shift and help him understand the importance of that side of the ball. One. And two, I mean, I don’t want to get into comparisons too much today, Chris, because it’s really early. We have to get to see him at first. But I mean, watching his highlights at Cal on the ball and watching him in picking roles, I can only imagine.

Chris Fedor (13:53.22)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (14:11.537)

doing pick and rolls and being as fluid as he was with guys at the collegiate level setting screens for him and then switching those guys in with Jared Allen who we’ve talked about as one being one of the best screeners in the game and I just think that as a Another option as a ball hander like you have mentioned Allowing Donovan Mitchell to be off the ball and create and we talked about Donovan Mitchell

Chris Fedor (14:27.236)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (14:38.449)

benefiting from having a table setter and potentially having him in that kind of role. I just think it is a good situation and I agree with you. I’m a fan of this pick and we’ve talked about it before the draft happened that this was an ideal fit for this team. But

Chris Fedor (14:41.38)

Mm -hmm.

Chris Fedor (14:54.884)

And you know, here’s the other thing too, Ethan. it’s easier for me to accept this, this kind of, draft pick and it’s easier for me, to, to be on board with it and think that it’s a good pick because of what was available at the time that they were selecting. You know, I’m told that they had been eyeing Tristan De Silva from Colorado and Jacoby Walter from Baylor.

as the draft continued to unfold, right? Those guys were still on the board as we got to the 15th pick and it got closer to the Cavs pick. But those two guys went 18 and 19 in the two picks right in front of the Cavs. So I think if either one of those guys would have been on the board at 20, it probably would have been more of a debate on do we take De Silva? Do we take Walter? Do we take Tyson?

Tyson was a guy that was on the Cavs radar for a long long time. They brought him in for a workout He impressed them in his workout despite being less than a hundred percent because he was dealing with a back injury that he suffered In a previous workout with another team But he was willing to come in he was willing to compete And and he impressed the Cavs with his ability to rebound his ability to pass his ability to shoot his ability To just stand out

in that kind of environment. So that on top of what they already saw on film while he was at Cal, all the stuff that they heard from Mark Madsen and some of the other people that had been following Jalen Tyson throughout his three -year college career, some of the things that they saw in person when they went to go scout him, things that they saw on film, the data analysis that they did, like all of that stuff is part of the pre -draft process.

And all of that stuff matters to some degree. But the fact that he did come in, they did get to meet with him. They did get to talk to him. They did get to learn what kind of person he was and how he would fit from a personality standpoint and his work ethic and his competitiveness and all those different things. He was somebody that they liked and he was somebody.

Chris Fedor (17:15.972)

that was on their list of prospects that they were looking at for the 20th pick always just like Tristan De Silva, just like Jacoby Walter, just like Johnny Furphy, just like Kyle Filipowski. So it’s like there isn’t that glaring one. I liked Johnny Furphy and I think he would have been a good pick for the Cavs at 20. That would have been more of an upside swing, but I would have liked that pick.

by the Cavs and I wrote about Johnny Furphy and I gave my reasons behind that. But beyond him and beyond Kyle Filipovsky, like there just isn’t that glaring prospect that was drafted between 21 and 30 that you sit there and you say, man, the Cavs should have gotten that guy or man, I can’t believe they passed on X player to take Jalen Tyson.

You know what I mean? Are you really lamenting the fact that the Cavs didn’t draft Ryan Dunn, who can’t shoot a lick at this point? Are you really lamenting the fact that the Cavs passed up on Kaishan George, who’s been described to me as Kyle Anderson with a jumper? Like, you know what I mean? So I think it’s just easier to accept this pick. One, because it’s logical. Two, because it’s a good fit. And three, because the players on the board

that they did not take in order to take Jalen Tyson, there isn’t that one that really stands out to you that you consider a big whiff. At least I don’t.

Ethan Sands (18:54.225)

Yeah, I’m in the same boat as you. I don’t think there was a guy that was standing out that could have been picked that didn’t get picked that people are like, well, we should have done that. But sure, there should probably be cash fans that we looked through the X and Twitter verse that are yelling at us already. But Chris, I mean, we’re talking about a guy that we talked about already earlier. And we said if he was a little bit taller, there would be no conversation.

Chris Fedor (19:05.508)

Mmm.

Chris Fedor (19:12.548)

Okay.

Ethan Sands (19:24.049)

And it’s not like he’s 6 ‘3″, 6 ‘4″. The guy’s 6 ‘6″, 6 ‘7″. And he can get up and down the floor and all of those good things. But we talked to Cavs General Manager, Mike Gansey, and he did say, and this was expected, that the Cavs are going to be aggressive and try and get a second round pick tomorrow. And with those guys that you mentioned,

Chris Fedor (19:30.308)

Mm.

Ethan Sands (19:50.481)

Johnny Furphy, Kyle Filipowski still being on the board who knows how long they’ll be on there and potentially the Cavs could be very aggressive and try and get some pick that would allow them to go and get one of those guys still off the board. So what do you think about the option for the Cavs to be aggressive in day two? And I mean, we’ve talked about it a little bit, but what are your thoughts on the whole situation?

Chris Fedor (20:17.988)

Yeah, I mean, I reported earlier this morning, Ethan, that the Cavs had been making calls to every single team that had a second round pick just to gauge the level of availability of that pick and to gauge what the cost would be to acquire that pick. And do the Cavs have the kind of assets and is the cost of that something that they would be willing to meet?

Those are very separate questions. Of course, there’s a level of want when it comes to the Cavs getting a second round pick because they don’t have one and because there are still guys on the board here in the second round that they do like. They could get Johnny Furphy in the second round. He’s still available. Kyle Filipowski is still available. Both those guys you would think are going to go early in the second round, but they worked out Cam Christie from Minnesota. He was in that same workout with Jalen Tyson, I’m told.

Tyler Smith from the G League Ignite. He was also in that same workout with Jalen Tyson, I’m told. Jalen Wells from Washington State. That’s a guy that came in and had a really, really good workout for the Cavs as well. Pell Larson is somebody who worked out for the Cavs. He’s still on the board. They like him a lot. He’s very Max Struesey, so he would fit pretty well, especially in the kind of system that Kenny Atkinson wants to run with, you know, pace, space, three -point shooting.

movement off the ball, creativity, diversity, DHOs, stuff like that. So there are players that would appeal to the Cavs. It’s just, do they like them enough to give up what they would have to give up in order to move into the second round? Because if you remember, this is a team that has used a lot of their draft capital into the future on various moves.

Their second round pick this year is going to Indiana as a result of the Karis Levert trade a couple of years ago. But there are other second round picks that they don’t have into the future. There are first round picks that they don’t have into the future because they all belong to the Utah Jazz. So they have to be pretty careful about when is the right time that they’re going to use some of those assets and is tomorrow a second round pick the right time to do that.

Chris Fedor (22:42.628)

one of the things that does help them in their quest to try and get into the second round is that there are multiple teams that have multiple picks in the second round. And there are only so many rookies that you can have on your roster. Right. There are only so many spaces that a team has on their roster. Portland’s got multiple picks. Indiana’s got three picks in the second round. They have room for three rookies, three second round rookies. Hard to believe. So I think the opportunity.

is going to be there for the Cavs to get into the second round. I think there are going to be picks that are going to be traded in the second round or bought by a team or two teams in the second round or three teams or however many teams want to buy a pick into the second round. That’s certainly a possibility. But it’s going to be about the cost for a team that doesn’t have as many assets as maybe they would like moving into the future.

Ethan Sands (23:43.313)

So Chris, I want to get into a little bit about what GM Mike Gansi talked about. And obviously he was not allowed to go in depth about Kenny Atkinson because that has not been made official, but we should be hearing about that shortly. That was alluded to today, but about this pick for what stood out to me about what Mike Gansi said, the most, the biggest thing was

Chris Fedor (24:02.916)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (24:13.361)

that Jalen Tyson was willing to work out through an injury. He was willing to put his body on the line. He was willing and able to still be productive in a workout against what he classified as one of their better workout classes or groups. And I think, I don’t think anybody is trying to throw shade or some people might be, but.

It’s come off that way a couple times now from different people in this organization when people that have are no longer in this organization about what happened last year in the playoffs when it came to different players not being able to participate throughout the remaining remainder of the playoffs. I think.

Jaylen Tyson, one, was a good fit, but also him showing his endurance, showing his intensity, showing those 50 -50 ball different things, because we heard Mike Gancy talk about the rebounding, the speed, the effort, those kinds of things that helped him, especially when it came to a team like the Cavs. What stood out to you about what Mike Gancy talked about for Jaylen Tyson, and just overall as well?

Chris Fedor (25:29.7)

Well, I think the other layer to this, Ethan, is that the Cavs had a hard time getting some of the prospects in for a workout that they wanted to bring in. Number one, they’re drafting 20th. It’s not a lottery pick. And number two, it’s a team coming off an Eastern Conference semi -finals appearance. And I think a lot of agents are fully aware of what Cleveland’s depth chart is looking like right now and what it’s probably going to look like.

And it’s all about opportunity for a lot of these prospects. They want to go to a place where they can flourish. They want to go to a place where they can play. And these agents want them to go to a place that’s going to give them the best opportunity to grow. And oftentimes that comes on the court, meaningful minutes with playing time. So it’s not surprising to me that some of these guys that the Cavs wanted to bring in.

For a workout because they were on their radar at 20 said no Because of your depth chart no because it’s a waste of our time No, because we’re gonna go higher But I do get the sense that that bothered the Cavs, you know, they wanted Kyle Filipowski to come in and work out He didn’t he’s still on the board here in the second round They wanted Tristan Silva to come in and work out. He wasn’t willing to

It was just hard for them to get the caliber of prospect in for a workout. And I think without saying that, that’s part of the way that I took it when he was talking about Jalen Tyson. It was a guy who was willing to come in and it was a guy who was willing to fight through an injury and be less than a hundred percent and maybe put himself into a situation.

where he wouldn’t look as good on the floor, but he just like didn’t care about all that other stuff that some of these prospects and some of these prospects agents do care about. Right? He just said, I’m going to compete. If I’m less than a hundred percent, I’m less than a hundred percent. I’m just going to go out here, stay true to my commitment and show this organization why they should take me with the 20th overall pick. So that’s part of the way.

Chris Fedor (27:51.684)

that I read that situation.

Ethan Sands (27:56.913)

I think it’s interesting that you mentioned just wanting to get playing time by the agents and by these players and wanting to be able to have a flourishing NBA career. I mean, that’s everybody, right? Nobody wants to come in and say, I made the NBA. Okay. No, I’m not here anymore.

Chris Fedor (28:09.348)

I’m out.

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (28:14.993)

No, that’s not the idea and jalen tyson is the same exact way There was a video that got posted on instagram with him at his party that was Not at the nba draft because he did not attend in brooklyn And he said that he wasn’t there to be he wasn’t there in the nba to be there just for four years He wants to play 15 years plus and that could be with the calves that could be with whoever

Chris Fedor (28:15.748)

You

Chris Fedor (28:38.02)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (28:43.633)

but his goal is to be able to play and have a long lasting career. And I think that’s what a lot of different players are having that mindset, but they understand that different situations will allow that to be the reality in different ways. And for Jalen Tyson, I think showing that the Cavs, showing the Cavs that he was willing to play injured, play without being at 100%, like you said.

and still be able to be productive is definitely something that caught their eye and also made him realize that, hey, I can do this, even if I’m not at my best.

Chris Fedor (29:18.884)

Mm -hmm.

I mean, some of these agents just control the process so much and they just want their client to look good in a workout, to stand out in a workout, to look good in a specific kind of environment. So they set up drills a certain kind of way. So they make certain kinds of requests for what kind of workout it’s going to be so that the skills that are showcased and the traits that are showcased are the ones that are already strengths of the player.

that is going to allow that player to look better and it’s going to play into their hands. You know what I’m saying? And for Jalen Tyson to be part of a multiplayer workout where he was surrounded by other guys who were borderline first round guys, early second round guys, and for him to be willing to participate in that at less than 100 % in a situation where he could have made himself look worse.

He could have cost himself an opportunity to be drafted in the twenties with a bad showing. I think that speaks to his competitiveness. I think that speaks to his toughness. I think it speaks to all those things that Mike Gansy was talking about. And look, I think the Cavs understand, Ethan, if you think about a lot of their moves since that flame out against the New York Knicks, a lot of them pointed to, we gotta get tougher.

We gotta get tougher physically, we gotta get tougher mentally. George Niang, Tristan Thompson, Max Struess, Marcus Morris, senior midway through the season. All of those guys have a specific skill set that the Cavs were attracted to, and they made sense from a basketball standpoint, but they’re also physically tough, mentally tough, and it’s clear that the Cavs are trying to bring those types of players

Chris Fedor (31:21.124)

into this organization, because that’s the thing. When you sign a player in free agency, when you trade for a player, when you draft a player, you’re not drafting a skill set. You’re not drafting a name on a piece of paper. You’re drafting a person and everything that goes into that. And you have to have the right people in your organization that fit what you want this organization to be. And it does feel like Jalen Tyson is

a Cavs type player.

Ethan Sands (31:53.873)

And it feels like the amount of effort that was put into not only figuring out the type of guy that Jalen Tyson was, but also how many Cavs personnel Mike Gansy said reached out to get in touch with Jalen Tyson afterwards. Like that was a good sign to me as well. And I think just the way that Mike Gansy put it made it seem like we already knew they were going to take the best available player. That’s what he said they did.

Chris Fedor (32:10.148)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (32:22.385)

That was the best available guy on the board for them, and it was the best fit for the team. And I think that holds true to what we had thought was going to happen, but also just the way that the draft panned out.

Chris Fedor (32:37.412)

also think though.

I don’t want to say they gave bonus points to a specific position, but I think the reality in the NBA, Ethan, is that there is more value attached to certain positions. I think there’s more value attached to certain archetypes. So if you have prospects that are pretty close together, that are on the same tier, the Cavs were probably always going to lean wing over point guard, over big man.

right, just because of the value of that position. And because I think if you have a guy that can play multiple spots, that is obviously going to help you when it comes to lineup construction. It’s going to help you with other moves that you can make. It’s going to help with the kinds of styles that you can play. So obviously the Cavs need a third big, and there was a chance that they were going to get a third big in this year’s draft, and they had an opportunity to.

Philipowski was there. Misi was there from Baylor. Misi went one pick behind them to New Orleans at 21. but, but I think the Cavs were always most likely to lean wing with this particular pick. if there was a wing that they felt was worth the 20th overall pick and there clearly was. so I do think they attach more value, to

to the position that Jalen Tyson plays. And I do think that helped him become this pick at number 20.

Ethan Sands (34:15.953)

Yeah, and I mean, we mentioned Wing was the archetype that they were looking for, but obviously it was beneficial that he played guard for a majority of his career in college. So now you kind of get the best of both worlds, along with the size to play small forward, but the skill set to be able to play the one, two, or three. And that’s what Mike Gansy said. He said mostly the two or the three, but in a pinch, he could run the one as well. So I mean,

Chris Fedor (34:43.332)

He also said in a pinch he thinks he could play the 4.

Ethan Sands (34:46.257)

which was crazy to me, but...

Chris Fedor (34:48.836)

Caleb Martin. Dude, Caleb Martin started games at Power Forward for the Miami Heat. For the NBA Finals appearance Miami Heat. Think about that.

Ethan Sands (35:01.521)

I say give him a year before you throw him against fours in the NBA or so, but I definitely think I could see it because we saw his strength on film. You saw his strength just jump off the page because he wasn’t afraid to go at whoever was in front of him. And I think that shows that Emanon, but that’s on the offensive end. And like we said, the defensive end is where he needs to grow.

Chris Fedor (35:03.588)

Hehehe

Ethan Sands (35:28.593)

So me seeing him go up against True Four’s in the NBA in his rookie season, that might frighten me just a little bit.

Chris Fedor (35:39.332)

He’s listed as bigger than Josh Hart. Do you realize that?

Ethan Sands (35:42.897)

Yeah, I do, which is crazy to think that Josh Hart plays meaningful minutes at the four at times for the New York Knicks.

Chris Fedor (35:49.636)

And battles power forwards for rebounds and switches on to those guys and stuff like that But like I said some people are capable of Playing bigger than what they’re listed and it feels like Jalen Tyson is one of those guys who can play bigger than what he’s listed

Ethan Sands (36:07.025)

It seems like the Cavs got the right guy. It seems like the Cavs are happy with their pick and they could potentially go get some other guys that are still on the board that they were looking at tomorrow. So Chris.

Chris Fedor (36:18.948)

Well, Mike Gansi wasn’t going to say, well, this pick sucks. Damn. I really wish we could have gotten Jacoby Walter. Geez, the Orlando Magic took our guy at number 18 in Tristan De Silva. So yes, he was always going to speak very, very positively about this particular pick. But I think in this case, you know, there is merit to that because as Gansi said, and I think he’s right,

Ethan Sands (36:22.129)

Hehehehe

Chris Fedor (36:44.996)

that this particular pick and this guy with this particular skill set, it checks a lot of the boxes. Maybe not every box that the Cavs would want checked, but when you’re picking 20 overall, you’re not going to find somebody who checks all of the boxes, not in this year’s draft.

Ethan Sands (37:03.313)

Hi Chris, it’s late. I think that’s a good spot to end today’s podcast. And with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris and me by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can find out if the Cavs decide to make a move tomorrow for day two of the draft.

and try and go get one of these guys that we named throughout the podcast. But to get that information, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit Cleveland .com backslash calves and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the calves from me and Chris. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast.

And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y ‘all be safe. We out.