FAIRFIELD, Ohio -- Jackson Carman was talking about Urban Meyer's sales pitch. Come to Ohio State, stay home and help lead the Buckeyes. He then talked about Dabo Swinney's aura, the captivating nice guy at Clemson who instantly makes you feel like you're a part of the family.
Then Carman offered this, recalling Swinney's message that ultimately swayed him to pick the Tigers during his National Signing Day ceremony on Wednesday:
"He also kind of mentioned that Urban was on the back end of his career, which he is," Carman said. "And Dabo is just starting up. Having the chance to be part of something that's upcoming, and being able to establish Clemson as a top-three figure ..."
He trailed off before finishing his thought about Clemson taking a spot atop college football, and was asked if Meyer's age played a role in his decision to pick Clemson over Ohio State.
"Not hugely, but it was an underlying factor," said Carman, a five-star offensive tackle and Ohio's top 2018 prospect.
There's a bit to sort through there.
First off, Swinney was given the chance to refute Carman's words, or at least soften them a bit. And he didn't do that. That's probably because to some extent he's right.
Swinney made note of that fact that he's been at Clemson since 2003. Meyer has been at four different programs, and left Florida in 2010 citing family and health reasons only to take a job at Ohio State less than a year later.
"I'm a guy that's been here for 15 years, and there are obvious differences when you compare coaches, if they're at different stages in life," Swinney said, according to ESPN's David Hale. "In recruiting, you talk about anything and everything a recruit wants to talk about that seems relevant."
Meyer has been a head coach for 16 years and has never once hinted that he wants to be a lifer. So he could be on the back end of his career. It's very likely that we're past the halfway point of Meyer's coaching career, and thus on the back end. But there's no concrete date.
Swinney also wouldn't exactly be privy to that kind of information. At least, Meyer wouldn't give Swinney that kind of recruiting ammo.
Meyer is 53 years old, and could surely coach into his 60s without being labeled a lifer.
On a completely unrelated matter, the negative recruiting Ohio State faces over the age of defensive line coach Larry Johnson, Meyer was asked Wendesday if he could see himself coaching until age 65 -- the age Johnson is now.
"No," Meyer said. "Don't use -- maybe. How's that?"
Meyer knows how important a coach's age and staying power can be in recruiting. Meyer has plenty of staying power. He'll call his shot when it's done, and that likely won't be before Carman's three-to-five years in college are up. This also wasn't the only reason Carman picked Clemson.
Swinney, for what it's worth, is 48. This wasn't exactly a young whipper snapper taking a shot at an elder statesman. Swinney and Meyer are basically the same age. It's just that Meyer got his first head coaching job in 2001, and Swinney got his in 2008. So Meyer has been a presence in college football longer, and feels a little older than he probably should.
All of that isn't to defend Meyer, because this is also true:
Swinney has an up-and-coming program with back-to-back appearances in the national championship, one title and the chance to win another this year. Clemson is the hottest program in college football. Ohio State operates at the highest level of the sport. But Clemson has more buzz, especially after beating the Buckeyes 31-0 last year in the College Football Playoff semifinals.
We don't have a complete transcript of Swinney's conversations with Carman and we never will, but if that was the gist of the message, then that much is fair.
And all is fair when you're recruiting for one of the country's top players.
"Traditionally Ohio State as far as their history with championships, draft picks and development, it's still a great program," Carman said. "Clemson I feel like is on the rise and has the opportunity to become one of those programs."