COLUMBUS, Ohio -- This Friday episode of Buckeye Talk is brought to you solely on behalf of the texter community delivering questions.
Among the Ohio State topics discussed by Stephen Means and Andrew Gillis:
- Can an elite defense impact a team’s offensive aggressiveness?
- Changing the recruiting calendar
- Ryan Day’s son as a quarterback prospect
- Which walk-ons would you give a scholarship to in 2024?
- Renovating the Woody Hayes Athletic Center
- Should OSU run up the score more?
- Michigan’s potential backslide.
Thanks for listening to Buckeye Talk.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Stephen Means (00:05.991)
Welcome back to book I talk I’m Stephen means and that’s Andrew Gillis. And as you’re listening to this pod Andrew and I are out at the Woody watching day one of Ohio State’s five recruiting day camps in June held every single year get the text 614 -350 -3315 we’re shooting off text and all types of information we’re getting there early in the morning and we’ll be that’s about late in the afternoon and we’ll pod off of that both days but that’s where we are right now as you’re listening to this pod this is a rapid fire pod we’ve already previewed.
those recruiting camps on the Tuesday power. We’re going to use this Wednesday pod just to wrap it five. You want to sign up for that? Once again, text six one four three five three three one five. I thought we got some interesting questions from some people. I want to start here.
From the five one three, do you think an elite defense like Ohio State has lends itself to being more aggressive on offense because you know your defense can get your back or more conservative since most teams will get, will be lucky to get out of the single digits in a given week. I think that’s interesting. Andrew, if your defense isn’t good, does that force you to want to be more aggressive because you know you have to score because you know your defense is going to give up points or.
vice versa, where it’s like, you know, you have a good defense. So like you can afford to maybe be conservative in some spots. Just that idea. If you had your let’s let’s make you an offensive court. Let’s make you the head coach, actually, because that’s what matters most here. You’re the head coach. You’ve got a really good defense. Might be one of the five best defenses in the country, but you’ve also got a very good offense, but you’re still there’s some question marks there. And it’s third. No, it’s for fin one from.
plus territory, but like the 45 yard line. So like that weird territory where it could be either or you could punt, you can field goal depending on what your kicker is, or you can decide to go for it. Are you would inclined to be more aggressive or more conservative in a situation like that when you know you have an elite defense?
Andrew (02:06.478)
Yeah, this is a trick question and I don’t like this answer, but it depends. it depends on the opponent because, and I think what, no, no, we’ll see, but here’s the thing. It, it, it allows you to do both.
Stephen Means (02:13.031)
Nope, nope, no caveat. This isn’t about, right, but this is about a philosophy for how you’re going to attack the season this period.
Andrew (02:26.062)
I mean, both like it like if we’re playing like if we’re playing a team that I know that has a great offense. Yeah, I’m aggressive because it’s like, you know what they might score and we’re being aggressive because it’s like, look, we can maybe hold them down a little bit or it like it depends on the moment. It depends on the situation where like when you’re playing Iowa, like I think you could be aggressive as hell against Iowa.
because you’re like, man, I was not scoring on this defense. They, the forward pass got invented there four years ago. Like we don’t have to worry about that. We’re going to throw it all over the yard and we’re going to go for it on, you know, whatever fourth and two at midfield or even on the fourth and one on our own side of the field. And we’re going to do whatever, like we’re going to do those type of things because we know that I was not going to hit what seven Ohio state allowed more than 17 points once. And it was Michigan game. And one of those plays came when it was a short field.
or one of those drives came when it was a short field. So it’s like Ohio State really only allowed like their defense technically allowed 30 once, but it was kind of like with that asterisk. So if I’m looking at it, I’m like, man, if we’re playing Iowa, we need to get to 21 as fast as possible. But I think there are situations where it’s game flow dependent. It’s, you know, hey, if we’re playing, you know, Oregon, maybe early on.
We’re conservative because we’re not trying to give a great offense, great field because it’s like, you know what? Let’s punt because we know that Oregon’s not going 80 yards on us. They might get 50 yards and kick a field goal, but Oregon’s not going 80 yards. And I think that it allows you the versatility to do both. So I like the idea of the question. I think it is a smart question, and I know it’s a cop -out answer, but I think one week you’re aggressive, one week you’re conservative, and it flips completely.
because you can change your math depending on the opponent depending on when the game is depending on what kind of game you needed to be that’s the product of having an elite defense right you know having. I wonder if it’s the same question if you have you know this level of offense and a defense or like I don’t know and you’re kind of getting your teeth through the whole thing if it changes there but if you have an elite defense I think one week you’re like you know like I said if you’re playing I think you could be aggressive is all get up.
Andrew (04:47.086)
saying we’re going forward on every fourth down. We don’t have to worry about it because look, I was not going to do anything against us and what does it matter? But if you’re playing Oregon and you’re fourth and one at your own 48 yard line in the first quarter and it’s zero zero, I’m looking at that scoreboard going, you know what? Let’s punt it. Let’s pin them deep. And then let’s see where the chips, you know, let’s see where the chips fall because even if we get a touchback, Oregon’s not going to score a touchdown on this defense. Oregon’s not going to go 80 yards.
multiple times on this defense. Let’s just play that out. So yeah, I think that’s the flexibility of the defense. Not that it allows you to be either or it’s that it allows you to be both.
Stephen Means (05:28.039)
If my defense is really is a lead, I’m going to be conservative. If my defense is not a lead, I’m going to be aggressive. And to be honest with you, the only depends for me is how good is my quarterback and how much do I trust him. And Ryan Day is right there with me. You know why? Because the Penn State game with a minute, a little less than a minute to go in three timeouts, they kneeled.
instead of trying to go be aggressive and get a touchdown. Why? Because you had an elite defense so you could afford to not go try to get seven points out of that or maybe even three. But also you didn’t trust your quarterback because the last time you had him out there, he threw an interception that was a pick six that only got called back because of a penalty. If that was CJ Stroud in that exact same scenario, I guarantee you Ryan Day goes to try to push the ball down the field. But also, CJ Stroud’s situation as Ohio State’s quarterback was very different than Kyle McCourt’s situation because he didn’t have good defenses. He had a.
Very bad defense at 21 and he had an okay defense in 22 Okay, little bored. Okay. They were good defense. They just gave us some explosive place good things, but still so in those situations They had to they were pushing the ball down the field They were putting up as many points as possible Why because their defense might give up just as many points? So that’s how you have to go win the game. So that’s what I think if your defense is elite and you know, you don’t have to score 45 points to win a game then
I’m not going to be aggressive and put my defense in a position where I’m asking them to do more. No, I’m just going to take the conservative route and say, hey, can you drive the ball 80 yards on my defense? Probably not. Versus if I have a bad defense, I have to take those chances because I have to score every time I get the football. From the 7 -4 -0, what do you think about a recruit doing all of his official visits? Then when he did.
does commit somewhere, he signs his letter of intent then. So the reason I’m bringing this question up, Andrew, from the 740 is one, it’s a great idea. Two, it’s something that you’ve been kind of hitting at already, the idea that the NCAA has already been discussing, this idea of maybe changing the recruiting calendar a little bit and having, obviously what the early signing period is and having the normal signing day that’s in January, which is kind of irrelevant at this point. But I know you’ve mentioned them potentially adding a third signing day maybe before the high school football season starts.
Andrew (07:40.814)
Yeah. So this was, this was from football scoop. There was a, a report a couple of weeks ago that, a college football that could, it is, you know, kind of moving towards a June signing period. The entire month of July would be a dead period. So no contact, no visits, no anything. and the December signing period, would move up to the first Wednesday of that month. February signing period would stay the same. so in that calendar, you know,
This year, this is just the hypothetical calendar. You would have a June signing period at the end of the month. You would have an early signing period on December 4th through December 6th, that Wednesday through Friday. So that would be, I believe, the week of Conference Championship weekend. The transfer portal would open after signing day. The transfer portal would open Monday, December 9th. And then that would allow that signing period.
to take effect. So that’s what this would be for the 2026 class. You know, so the period would happen at the end and then you kind of immediately go into a dead period. I think this makes sense in a couple of different ways. I think that there are some concerns about it. You know, if you were to do this, right, I think it makes some sense, right? There’s no reason to not have Tavi in St. Clair be able to sign his letter of intent if he wants to do it or Devin Sanchez. Go ahead.
Stephen Means (09:06.791)
That’s that’s Let me ask you this because I think you’re about to make a point I’m gonna ask you about Ohio State’s 25 class right now has 12 commitments in it if there was a signing period in August Right before they start the senior year of high school before how state football starts to see its 2024 season of those 12 How many do you think and you’re 100 % certain that they would sign in August if there was a signing day in August?
Andrew (09:15.886)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew (09:32.494)
Or signing day, August, June, whatever. Yeah, I think I think Sanchez would sign. So there’s one I think Tavian Sinclair would sign. There’s two I think Carter Lowe would sign. There’s three I think Nate Roberts would sign for Deshaun Stewart five, Cody Haddad six, Eli Lee seven. Like I think you’re probably at like about half the class would sign. You know, I would like to get more of a read on on guys like TJ Alford. I know he’s going to take an official visit.
Stephen Means (09:36.487)
Okay.
Andrew (09:57.87)
I would like an elsewhere. I would like to get a read on to hear Mathis London Merit some of these other guys. So maybe that number could go up. But those are the guys that I would feel confident in like six or seven right now. And yeah, go ahead.
Stephen Means (10:08.359)
So, but I think the reason why I asked you that question, because I think that’s your answer for why that would be so important and why this is such a good idea. That’s seven other 12 members that Ohio State wouldn’t have to be, you know, stressing themselves out over. Now, if things happen, obviously there are there’s stipulations here if guys leave and there’s outs with NILs and all that stuff. But sure, assuming this coaching staff stays in PAT, especially for those guys.
Andrew (10:27.47)
Right.
Stephen Means (10:36.423)
who we named, who you just named, those seven guys. And you’re saying Naeem Alford and Zaheer Mathis, maybe Zaheer Mathis might be pretty locked in, but still, Zaheer Mathis and Deshaun Stewart and Desi Jones, those guys you’re not so sure about? Well, what if those are the only five guys that Ohio State’s like that concerned about too? Because they’re going through their season and they’re not having to make sure Devin Sanchez and Taven St. Clair aren’t going, no they’re not, but the point of the matter, there’d be documentation.
that you’re not worried about those guys unless something crazy happens. And this is not just from an Ohio State’s perspective, this is from everybody’s perspective. Because what ends up happening a lot of times is we get to close to signing day, you’ve been through this now Andrew, you get close to signing day and then you see all these guys flipping. We’ve got to worry about that. What if instead of worrying about 25 guys flipping, you’re worried about five or six guys flipping?
Andrew (11:27.662)
So yeah, I think there’s this like from a smaller point of view, like if you were to take kind of more of a micro point of view, I think the individual kids, yeah, right. Imagine if going into the year, James Laurinaitis knows that he, like imagine he could convince TJ Allford to sign at the end of a June signing period, right? And you got Eli Lee and TJ Allford, all of a sudden now you don’t gotta worry about Allford flipping throughout the course of the year. Your list gets shorter.
And it makes these coaches lives easier, right? You know, James Laurinaitis and, you know, Brian Hartline and all these other coaches. It’s like, you don’t have to worry about keeping guys anymore. You can just focus on making sure that guys, you know, come to Ohio State. You don’t have to worry about kind of the retention part of recruiting that so much of this is involved in. So yeah, I think it would make sense. I think it would kind of allow some of these kids to,
you know, to maybe get some of these schools off their backs, frankly, because technically, if you know, Devin Sanchez puts pen to paper in Texas says, Hey, man, we still want to talk to you. That’s technically tampering at that point. Or if you know, Tavian Sinclair puts pen to paper, and then, you know, Ole Miss calls him and Lane Kivens like, Hey, man, we want to talk to you. That’s tampering. And you know, once he puts pen to paper, so I think that that would give schools another it would give it would give you kind of an out to say like,
Stephen Means (12:47.751)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew (12:54.318)
Make, let these kids live their lives a little bit, right? Like let these kids kind of ball, like, like let them, let them hang out, like let them do their thing. I do think that there are some kinks that would need to be worked out, but I think from a macro point of view, you’re looking at it and I think you would have to start recruiting earlier, right? You know, maybe class it, like you look at the recruiting rankings right now. I was looking at this last night. like if you go look at the recruiting rankings, they’re very much like up in the air.
Like they’re very unique. Like Rutgers is 11, Syracuse is 12. That’s only because they have 18 and 19 commits respectively. Like Notre Dame is number one, but only because they have 21 commits and Ohio State is two because they have 12. Like I wonder though, if you start to see more classes look like Notre Dame’s and look like Rutgers and look like Syracuse where you’ve got the bulk of your class committed.
by June if you have to start recruiting sophomores and juniors more heavily because you got to get these kids involved. So there’s there’s a big kind of macro conversation to be had here. You know, hey, what do high school kids sit out? Like what would happen if there what would happen if there’s a high school kid who says, man, I’m locked in. I’m enrolling in December. I’m good. I got my NIL package. I wonder if that would have I don’t think it would happen at a local level.
Stephen Means (14:14.375)
No.
Andrew (14:18.254)
But I think because there’s community tie, there’s all that. But like a kid at an IMG, I don’t know. I have a question. Like I’m not saying it’s likely. I just I would have a question. I would want to see it happen. I don’t think it would be likely, but I think it’s possible.
Stephen Means (14:23.879)
Yeah, but -
Stephen Means (14:30.535)
Yeah, but most of those kids at IMG could do that now. Like they’ve got, they’re not using their senior year to get film. They already have. I don’t think that their recruiting process and them playing football are two different things. And I think like the idea of sitting out isn’t, like that, I understand that happens in college football when you’re talking about meaningless bowl games, but that’s cause you’re talking about guys who are now moving on and going to the NFL draft. Like high school football, people want to play football and I don’t.
Andrew (14:35.95)
but it’s different when you’re locked in.
Andrew (14:49.39)
Mm -hmm.
Andrew (14:57.71)
Yeah, of course.
Stephen Means (14:58.375)
I just, I just, I get why you’re saying it. I just, I don’t live in this world of people just opting out for the sake of opting out. They’re playing their senior year of high school football isn’t married to what comes next in their football lives the same way it does.
with college football players sitting out as they get ready for the NFL draft? Like, especially in not every state has an IL for high school kids as well. Like, Xavier St. Clair can’t take advantage of that stuff. You texted that out to our texters on Tuesday, 614 -350 -331. I don’t think that the sitting out part, that’s not going to happen. I don’t, I would not assume that would be part of the case. But does it just mean that there’s...
you know, 45 less people calling these kids on a day to day basis. For sure. I agree with you there. It’s a lot less because it doesn’t really, it goes quiet, but it doesn’t really go quiet to your side. Even Devin Sanchez is, you know, as locked in as he is, I’m sure there are still schools who are trying to reach him, whether it’s him directly, his parents, his coaches or whatnot to your point of, if he signs a letter of intent, you can’t tamper anymore.
Andrew (15:45.326)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (16:09.127)
Then it literally goes to zero. Now it’s just like us, media members trying to get in contact with these players.
Andrew (16:13.262)
Yeah. And yeah, so there’s that too. And like I do think it’s important to bring up, like there are situations in which this could change. You know, you have a like, you know, let’s just use Ohio State for an example. Devin Sanchez signs and Tim Walton takes a job in the NFL at the end of the season. Right. You can get out of that. You can get. Yeah, there are situations, there are stipulations where
Stephen Means (16:39.239)
for sure.
Andrew (16:42.99)
you could get out of that. And, you know, there are things where, cause that’s not fair to the player. You know, if, if, if Tavian St. Clair commits to Ohio state and Ryan Day goes to the NFL after a season, like that’s not fair to Tavian St. Clair to say like, well, you signed the contract on your commitment. Cause Ryan Day didn’t honor his commitment. He just left you there. There will be stipulations that you can get out of it and things like that. And those can be legislated. I think everybody will agree to those things. I do wonder though.
If it’s something that every kid should take, I think that there are certain kids that should be able to do that. Like, Octavian St. Clair should be able to do that. That’s fine. But there are certain kids that would advise not to, right? You know, I mean, there are kids that, and Steven, you know this every year, where a kid will pop up on radar late and, you know, what, you know, the 490th ranked offensive tackle who was six foot three in his junior year is now six foot six.
and he’s 290 and he can move. And what if he signs his letter of intent to go to Kent State and now all of a sudden Cincinnati is beaten down the door and pits beaten down the door and, you know, power for schools and, you know, schools with kind of high level ceilings are kind of knocking down that door saying, Hey man, like we would be interested in you, but you can’t get out of that letter of intent. Like you would need a release from that letter of intent. And the school might not be, cause there’s not a,
a mitigating circumstance so I know we’re going long on this question but I think it depends. I think kids should be able to do it but I would advise maybe even more than half of the kids to just say like take your time. Like think about this. I know it might be easy to say you’ve made your officials make a decision but you’ve also got a few more months and I know that’s during your season but a lot of things can change. Coaches can change. You can change as a player.
you know, there might be a kid who pops up on radar or, you know, a kid that, you know, your, your school recruits over. Like if you’re a number one 90 tight end and you signed to a school and all of a sudden they find another tight end that they like better. And they’re like, you know, we’re just going to bring in two tight ends. And now we’ll thought you thought they were going to bring in one. Like there’s a lot of circumstances like that that can change. So I think yes, they should be able to do that. I think.
Andrew (19:06.542)
Anybody that is advising these players would advise them to tread lightly and be careful about the decision that they’re making.
Stephen Means (19:14.279)
I think you should I think the options should be available and if you’re ready to sign sign and we can you can deal with whatever you want to deal with after that from the 9 3 7 and maybe you have an answer for this Andrew maybe you don’t I know you haven’t been here very long but assuming Ohio State doesn’t add anyone else they would have four scholarships available to give to walk -ons right now they are under the 85 scholarship mark we talked to Ryan Day on Tuesday he said the roster is pretty stiff this is what it’s going to be obviously unless if something crazy happens and we’ll get there when we get there but they’re not really expecting that
to bring anybody else in. They’re not really expecting to lose anybody else who’s already in the program. So 81, so that’s four under. Who would you guys think the four most deserving guys are and who would you give them to if they had four open scholarships to give over to walk -ons in the 2024 season? Andrew, do you have anybody that you think?
Andrew (20:07.182)
Well, I know like TC Caffey would probably be the number one. Like I think that would be the guy that, you know, I think that that would be the guy that you could really map out. I know Ohio State had brought in like they brought in a punter from Buffalo on a walk on like as a walk on player. You know, that could be a situation where it’s like, you know what? We’re going to give him a scholarship for this year and maybe he’s our punter this year. Like there are there are guys, right?
You know, there are guys they brought in one of the finalists for Mr. Ohio in 2024. Rashid Sessay, I’m butchering that last name. But, you know, he’s from West Muskingum High School. Like I said, finalist for Mr. Ohio football. Like he was a walk on. He’s a guy that you could give a scholarship to. Like there are guys.
You know that you can find in camp, right? You know those videos where you know, they bring the team around and they bring the walk on up. Look at this guy. He’s balling out. He’s playing so hard and that’s why you’re on scholarship and the whole team goes nuts like you. There are. There are players on walk on play like on walk on levels that you know, maybe they’re going into their last year of college and you can give them a walk on scholarship or something like that and then it’s not really affecting you long term that you can.
I was reading up about this today, Steven. I know with Ryan Day, there’s a lot of ways to skin that cat or something like that. There’s a lot of different things that you can do and a lot of different ways you could do it. But TC Caffey would be at the top of my list. And then that punter from Buffalo, I think those are probably the two guys. And then you can kind of finagle it.
Stephen Means (21:47.271)
So I’ve got three TC Caffe because they’re talking about him like he’s going to play. So I mean, you know, when you’re talking about a low, I mean, you’ve got four scholarship running backs and you want to have five. If you think you have a walk on running back who’s made plays, he made some plays in the last time Ohio State played Akron. I don’t know. I can’t remember which one it was, but he made some plays and obviously had an injury that kind of set him back there. Yes. The Toledo gave me a 49 yard touchdown run back in 2022. So he’s at the top of my list. Brendan, Brendan,
Jones, the safety who kind of flashed a lot during spring practice and in the spring game as well. You’re kind of light on safety. Obviously, you brought in Kenan Nelson to help with the depth there, but maybe he can get a spot. He’s in his second year. But I think for sentimental reasons, I would go with this person. Restock scale, Dale. He’s been hurt a lot for the last couple of years there. But that dude is like really important to the wide receiver room. Like, seriously.
Every time we were in the Woody and I became like a running joke that Marvin Harrison Jr. works so hard, he’s always in there. Well, there were different people always with him, but the mainstay was always Reece Stocksdale. They got real close during Marvin’s time in Columbus. So close. I mean, Reece Stocksdale was one of the people who got invited to the draft with Marvin Harrison Jr., which I thought was a cool touch for Marvin to be able to do that for Reece Stocksdale. I don’t know if Reece is ever going to have quite the role that we saw CJ Saunders have as a former walk -on in the wide receiver room that we saw.
You know, Xavier Johnson in the wide receiver room the last couple of years. I’m not sure if that will ever happen for him, but his importance to that wide receiver room doesn’t show up on Saturdays. But anybody who’s in the woody Sunday through Friday will tell you it’s an important role that he plays in that wide receiver room. So I’ll go with those guys. We’ll take a quick break there. Those are a couple of questions. We’ll get into a couple more when we come back from the break here on Pocoto.
Stephen Means (23:41.287)
And we’re back here on Buckeye Talk. We’re taking questions from our tech subscribers. If you want to sign up and ask great questions, sign up for the tech 614 -350 -3315. I didn’t send this one to Andrew because it just popped up as we’re recording this. That’s not true. That actually got it before we started recording it. I just didn’t see it. But I just think it’s a really good question from the 330. Would you try this scenario?
The ball is on the two yard line behind this year’s starting offensive line. So that’s Joshua Simmons, Donovan Jackson, Seth McLaughlin and Josh Fryer and then either Luke Montgomery or Tegra Shambul or Carson Hintman maybe at that right guard spot. So this started the offensive line. You have the ball in the two yard line and you have four chances.
to get into the end zone with any run play in any formation you want. If you score, you get $50 million and lifetime season tickets to your favorite sports team. If you fail, you go to jail for 30 days, get fired from your job and cannot get another job anywhere for one full calendar year. yeah. The defense is Michigan’s defense from 2023. Would you do it, Andrew?
Andrew (24:56.654)
So let me have this. So I had this right. Ohio State is at the two yard line. I’m calling plays or I’m just, I need them to score somebody out. Ryan Day’s calling plays or just.
Stephen Means (25:07.783)
No, no, I think you’re the running back. I think you’re the running back. I think you’re the running back. They didn’t really classify though if they said they just said you have four chances to get into the end zone with any run. So maybe you are calling plays.
Andrew (25:11.374)
I’m the right.
Andrew (25:17.31)
if I’m the running bag.
Andrew (25:26.542)
Okay, well if I’m playing, no. The answer is no, I die, yeah.
Stephen Means (25:29.159)
Yeah, it doesn’t matter who the yeah, I’m gonna be honest with you. It doesn’t matter who the offensive line is. If I’m playing, they were not getting into the end. So that’s one of my I listen to Travis and Jason Kelsey’s pocket and they ask people that all the time. Could an average human being gain one yard in a NFL running game if you ran like half back dive? And it’s like, no, I don’t think you understand how elite these athletes are. No, you’re not getting one yard. But let’s see.
Andrew (25:35.566)
Yeah.
Andrew (25:50.67)
Yeah, no, the answer is no. And then additionally, if like, let’s like, you would have to like do the Madden sliders where you like turn injuries off because you get hit once you’re dead. Like, like if Vita Vea tackles you, you’re dead. Like it’s you’re not getting up. It’s over. You’re in the hospital.
Stephen Means (26:07.527)
And it’s like, you’re not explosive enough to even get back to the line of scrimmage.
Andrew (26:11.342)
Yeah, you would need, you would need like the hogs offensive line or the Cowboys of like the mid 2010s offensive line to drive a hole through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So.
Stephen Means (26:19.527)
Yeah. Even get to get to the line of scrimmage, not even gain a yard just to get back even. But okay, let’s let’s make a play caller. This Ohio State’s offensive line and you have four plays to get into the end zone and two yard line and it’s against Michigan’s 2023 defense. Do you take that chance? Four chances. If you don’t get it, you go to jail and you’re jobless for a year or you get it and you get $50 million in free tickets for life. Yeah.
Andrew (26:46.638)
Yes, I take it. I’m normally risk averse, but I think I have to, I think I take the two, like, I think I take the two yards. Like, I understand you might not be able to run it in, but like, because that defensive line was really good, but man, I’m, it’s two yards. You can get two yards in, in four plays against Michigan. I truly believe that. I like,
You know, I mean, this is very much like that, that question where it’s like aliens have the death rate pointed to you or the world. Give me a good dollar, but like, give me a Mac, a book on Jeremiah Smith and carnel Tate. And we’re going to spread it out and we’re going to line it up and we’re going to put a quinch on Jenkins in the backfield. And we’re going to, we’re going to try to spread them out as best we can and then run it once or twice and then call the pass play once or twice. And we do it.
30 days in prison would be the worst 30 days of your life, but it’s not, but it’s a month. Like if it was like a year in prison, I think we’re, I think we’re, we’re maybe we’re, we’re getting closer to no, I think we’re maybe at no for like a year in prison. but if I lose my job, I can just go live with my parents and I would just spend 30 days in prison and then go live with my parents for a year and then take a bunch of IOUs and be like, all right, mom and dad, like.
I’m going to be, I’ll pay you back, but I can’t do it for a year. I’m doing that because what’s the reality you in $50 million. You can retire. If they get them all, if Jeremiah Smith catches a jump ball, you could retire. That’s crazy. So I’m taking that. Yes. That’s a yes for me.
Stephen Means (28:28.711)
Yeah, I think if they if we’re just a play caller, I’m definitely taking it. how’s it’s offensive line? It’s not that bad. It’s it’s not it’s a
Andrew (28:37.71)
I mean Michigan’s defensive line in last year is better than Ohio State’s offensive line this year.
Stephen Means (28:41.511)
And Ohio State spent an entire drive, like a 12 play drive, just running the ball down the field and scored a three yard touchdown with Trayvon Henderson. So to your point, yes, Michigan’s defensive line was very good, but it’s not, if we’re just the play call, Ohio State’s offensive line isn’t the best we’ve seen from Ohio State, but we’re measuring it by Ohio State standard. We’re not measuring it necessarily by the standard of just across college football. It’s still above average, just college football offensive line. Now.
Andrew (28:45.326)
Yeah.
Andrew (28:50.286)
It’s possible for sure.
Stephen Means (29:11.047)
if we’re supposed to be a player on the field. That is what makes it, I think, risk averse. And I still think I might take it because to your point, well, you know, it’s got to be a run play. That’s the key thing here. So you can’t just toss it up to Jeremiah Smith. They didn’t say I had to be the one to run the ball. They just had any run play. So we get mad. We all like to, you know,
Andrew (29:31.95)
Yeah, okay, that’s the thing, yeah.
Stephen Means (29:38.791)
give Ryan stuff for the fact that they ran a jet sweep to a Macabuca. But we’ve also seen those exact same jet sweeps and then explosive touchdowns. So it’s it didn’t work on. It’s one of those plays where when it doesn’t work or going, why the heck did you call that? But when it if it had worked, we’d be calling him a genius for that. So we can do that. We can do reverses where maybe I get the I get the fake handoff and then you reverse it to Jeremiah Smith. Maybe it’s a read option.
where the quarterback keeps the ball because they’re going to run the quarterback this year. You just said it has to be a run play. You didn’t say I had to be the one to run the ball. I still think that.
Andrew (30:15.086)
Or you just yeah, or you just line up if it’s on the left hash, you just line up as you line up with like Tennessee wide receiver splits on the far right side of the field as far away from possible. And hey, if Michigan decides not to cover you, throw me the ball and I’m pretty sure I can catch just a pass play where nobody’s near me. it can’t be a pass play. That’s right.
Stephen Means (30:22.535)
For sure, yes, yes.
Stephen Means (30:29.319)
You can’t do it. You can’t do it. It can’t be a throw play. Yeah, but it can’t be a run. It’s gotta be a run play. You just, you have to just dress it up as much humanly possible because the problem is because I’m not on the team, they’re gonna see me and go, that’s who’s getting the ball. He’s getting the ball because we’ve never seen him before. And why is he out here? He’s getting the ball. So we just have to really dress it up. I still take the chance. I like taking chances. You don’t get anywhere in life unless you take some chances that we go off. Yeah, man. The, the,
Andrew (30:37.934)
Yeah.
Andrew (30:54.03)
$50 million, $50 million!
Stephen Means (30:59.495)
The excitement of the potential success rate outweighs the my devastation of potential failure in this situation. Fifty million dollars is greater than possibly spending 30 days in jail, especially since. Go ahead.
Andrew (31:07.854)
Yes.
Andrew (31:12.334)
So if you win $50 million, I don’t think we should say quit our jobs on a podcast for our jobs, but what’s the first thing you do if you win $50 million? And don’t say like payoff, but like give me something like the first fun thing you do with $50 million.
Stephen Means (31:23.783)
I mean.
Stephen Means (31:28.039)
Yeah, I know. I mean, I’d probably buy a house, honestly. Somewhere nice.
Andrew (31:31.214)
Okay. Where?
Okay, so like, are we beach? Are we beach? Are we mountains? Are we?
Stephen Means (31:36.391)
First of all, if I did I’m just gonna tell you I’m not gonna give you all that because I’m just gonna be honest if I win 50 million dollars any time in my life Y ‘all are never seeing me again. I just look okay That’s how you’re gonna know I won 50 million dollars if I like that every me and like everybody who’s
Andrew (31:45.038)
I’m never hearing you. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I just got on the podcast with our new whoever co -worker is going to be and I’m just like, hey guys, it’s us two. Stephen’s gone and we don’t know where he is.
Stephen Means (31:58.311)
Yeah, I just knew that I’m not coming back either. So $50 million is enough that I’d get a house, probably something like that, and then pay off some bills or anything like that.
Andrew (32:09.07)
I’m buying two houses, man. We’re chilling. We got we got multiple locations.
Stephen Means (32:14.151)
I mean, it’s still, listen, I mean, it’s expensive out here and $50 million only goes up so far. You gotta, you know, I’d probably get a job somewhere doing something just not all that interesting and not hard at all, just to like keep myself busy or whatnot, but that’s just cause it’s everywhere.
Andrew (32:23.694)
I disagree. I disagree. Those people that are like, well, if you win the lottery, you know, if you win, I know it’s $50 million, but it’s like, man, if you win this, you would have to do something. I could wake up every morning on the beach and I don’t have to do anything.
Stephen Means (32:36.743)
I mean, billion -
Stephen Means (32:40.615)
Billionaires go to work every day. So, you know, so yeah, I would still have a job somewhere. OK, from the 434, speaking of families on the Tuesday pod, Steven briefly mentioned how RJ Day would be at the upcoming camps with his dad, Ryan Day. I like that with his dad, Ryan Day and mother Nina watching. What are your what are your thoughts on RJ possibly being Ohio State starting quarterback in the future with his dad as the head coach?
Andrew (32:43.47)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Stephen Means (33:07.303)
Would this be the first time we saw something like that? Or do you think it would work out better for the better or for the worst? I can’t think. It happens in basketball a lot, right? Like Doug McDermott played for his father, Greg Creighton. We’ve seen some other examples that Austin Rivers played for Doc Rivers in the NBA. We’ve seen that. I can’t think off the top of my head any situations where we’ve seen it in football, but also because you’re dealing with more people.
So RJ Day is a 27, a 27 recruit, 2027. He goes to St. Francis DeSales High School in Columbus, Ohio. He has three offers already. He got Boston College back when Jeff Halfley was still the head coach. He has an offer from Marshall and Toledo. So I put more.
value in the Marshall Toledo offers and the Boston College one right now, just because those two seem like he’s on the beginning stages of starting to get it, you know, some exposure out there. Like I said, he’s 2027. So he’s going into what is going to be his what sophomore season or junior season, sophomore. Okay. Yeah. He’s going into his sophomore season. So he’s still, you know, he’s developing here.
I don’t know if he’s going to be good enough to be Ohio State starting quarterback. And I don’t know if he’s going to be good enough to get an Ohio State offer, but I do know that as of right now, he is good enough to play college football because two teams said he’s good enough to play college football. But in this hypothetical situation, I think it would be fun. I think it would be a fun story. I’ve actually been thinking about this. If RJ does get to the point here where he’s like a highly rated quarterback in Ohio State comes into the picture here.
I wonder if we’re not going to be allowed to ask Ryan Day about his family anymore because you can’t talk about recruits. And he would technically be a recruit now. So you can’t talk about your son because you’re recruiting him.
Andrew (34:56.846)
That’d be, I’m just imagining that like signing day where, you know how we, yeah, you know, you know, we signed, you know, you know, Edrick Houston, you know, good player out of Georgia, really happy to have him, you know, great competitor, great this, that, and the other. And he just like goes, you know, you know, Aaron Scott out of Ohio, you know, long corner, really impressive, great program out there in Ohio. Like he’s doing all that.
And then he just gets there. He goes, RJ day, great father, great family, you know, comes from a great, you know, like he would just hype up, comes from a great family, comes from a great, leadership love his dad. Like, I think that’d be really funny. I, it would be crazy. Like it would be a very crazy thing. And like, I think RJ would want that, right? You want to play for your dad. You want to play at Ohio state, but they’re also.
Stephen Means (35:32.487)
Yeah.
Andrew (35:53.71)
I think that there also is an argument to be like, what if you’re that level of quarterback? Do you want that? Like, do you want to play for you? Or do you want to kind of carve your own path? Like, and it’s not that against Ryan, it’s just guys do that all the time, right? You know, Jeremiah, who’s who Cormoa, his little brother, Nathaniel, who’s who Cormoa? I know this isn’t father son dynamic, but.
Nathaniel talks all the time about like carving his own path and doing his own thing and how he doesn’t, you know, necessarily like need to go to Notre Dame because his brother went to Notre Dame. And you have like all of these other kind of scenarios where you have like big brother, little brother, and they talk about like, man, I don’t need to go there just because he went there. Like it’d be cool, but I don’t need that. And sometimes you get it. Sometimes, you know, you have family members that are like, I need to play for him or I want to play with him or whatever. But.
I think that it’s not crazy to be like, you know, he could be that level of quarterback and be like, you know what? I need to get out of Columbus. Like I need to go to college and experience things and do kind of different things in my life. So. It’d be fun as hell, but I, I don’t know. I think you could make an argument that it’d be great. And I think you can argument, make an argument that it’d be really hard on Ryan because like, what if RJ is not going to start? And I understand you have to look at it objectively, but it’s a different. Yeah.
Stephen Means (37:16.711)
And that’s why I don’t think it’d be hard on Ryan. I think it’d be harder on RJ. I think it’s, I think it’d be a cool thing. I also, I mean, we’re kind of seeing this play out in real time right now with LeBron James and his son, Bronnie, right? Where we’re not, where you’re not sure how good Bronnie is because he’s LeBron James’ son.
Andrew (37:28.942)
Should I add the - yep.
Stephen Means (37:34.759)
So how much of this is Bronnie James is good versus how much of it is because he’s LeBron James’ son. And unfortunately, that’s the world you have to live in when you’ve got a famous parent, especially in sports, and then you go do what they’re doing. Right. Is the nepotism conversation of all this. So how good does RJ Day have to be?
for that to not be the conversation. I don’t even want to completely go down this road because RJ’s, like I said, he’s going into his sophomore year of high school and he deserves to just be able to be a high school football player right now and not have this whole conversation. I think it’d be cool overall here. I also, seeing how this has sometimes played out with other people, I do know it would at least open the door for that type of thing to happen. And so it would be some interesting conversations between head coach and player.
Just like father, son, head coach and player. Those will almost have to be two separate conversations, even if they’re happening between two of the same people. But RJ Day, two, three offers so far, he’s off to a pretty quality start here. And then I’ve said it before, I honestly think he already might be the best quarterback in my high school’s history. Cause we’re not known for quarterback play. We’re known for running the ball and defense. So kudos to RJ Day. Congratulations on that third offer, potentially many more to come. A couple more questions here on our rapid fire pod. From the 937.
From the 937, my question is more about a facility thing. A couple of months ago, when Gene announced that he was retiring, he mentioned a big plan for him before he left to make sure that there was a major plan for renovations for the Woody. Since then, it’s kind of gone quiet on if the Woody would be getting a massive facelift or not. I’ve heard that the Woody definitely needs one because it’s getting a bit old in terms of when it was last renovated. And I do believe this matters in recruiting, although not as much anymore because of NIL being the bigger thing. But I still think...
Stephen Means (39:54.985)
renovations to the facility are some of the coolest parts about college football. I want to know if you guys have heard any updates on that front. So Andrew, I can just take this because we sat down with Gene Smith about a month ago and we had some of these conversations. They’ve already started some of that stuff, just the small renovations. There is a bigger plan still in place, but Ross Bjork will obviously be running that.
major renovation there when he takes over full time in July as Gene Smith is in his final days as an All -States Athletic Director. But they are going to be doing some small renovations around the Woody as far as they’re all in on football this year. So there’s been some updates to the lockers. I don’t know how many of you have social media, but some of the players have shared that they’ve updated the locker rooms and the Woody Hays Athletic Facility. They’re going to be repainting stuff in there, redoing something, not the fields. They redid the fields a couple of years ago, but just updating the building as a whole. Yes.
937 yes to all of our Texas just to all fans. There is a bigger plan to have a bigger. More significant upgrade to the wood because they’re right and I mean if you look across college football, it’s one of the things that people talk about is whenever Texas or Penn State or any of these other schools update facilities. look how cool it looks in there. How come Ohio State is so far behind? So yes, there is a plan to do that. A couple of more here from the 740.
I was listening to a national college football podcast. They were talking about how Alabama used to win by 20 or 30 points often. They said Nick Saban would play a lot of freshmen and backup players. Does it hurt Ohio State that Ryan Day doesn’t like to run the score? If the backups do get in, they only run a very basic playbook. Andrew, should Ohio State run up the score more for a chance to get its young guys in the game?
Andrew (41:33.23)
I mean, maybe there are kind of other mitigating circumstances to that, though. Like you you do have red shirt requirements for some guys. You got to be mindful of, you know, you there are some guys where it’s like, hey, he’s a definite red shirt. So if you’re definitely red shirting, I mean, like we’re talking about Ohio State now with 81 scholarships, like even if you get to 85, you know, let’s say that that’s, you know, three scholarship players. So it’s 82 or three scholarship specialists, excuse me. So there’s 82.
And then all of a sudden you go down. All right, we got 41 scholarships on offense, 41 scholarships on defense. Let’s just make that easy math. I don’t know if that’s the way the math would work out, but you have your starting 11 and then you got 30 backups. How many of those guys are you going to redshirt in a given year? Because like offensive linemen, you’re pretty much guaranteed to redshirt those guys, right? Like, unlike like there’s not like a Paris Johnson in this class where you’re like, whoa, like that guy might be the best tackle on the team right now.
or that guy might be one of the best best five right now. So you’re probably red shirt and the offensive lineman, you’re red shirting handful of other guys. So it’s like, if you have 11, and then then you’re down to 30 backups, and you want a red shirt, you know, 1010 of them, maybe, like then you’re down to 20. He got injuries, I think the numbers dwindle maybe a little bit quicker than some people think. So I think, you know, maybe you could run up the score. But I don’t know if you’re going to see the
benefits of that immediately. You know, I don’t know how much of a benefit it would be. I think you want to get guys in the game. You want to play guys. You want to give them experience. I think especially this year with the veteran guys you have on your team, you want to see some younger guys play, give them experience because no matter what happens, you’re going to have a lot of turnover going into 2025. But I just the benefit is there and you want to get guys off their feet. I just don’t think you could be putting in second, third, fourth string guys.
every single week and be like, all right, we need to get to 28 nothing and then everybody’s out because you also want to keep up your rhythm offensive.
Stephen Means (43:35.623)
How many games on a given year do you think a team can run up to score one? Because you get four games to play football. So like, I don’t think this is a redshirt conversation. This is a conversation for like three games this season. And it’s literally.
Andrew (43:43.982)
Let’s do that right now. That’s a good question. Yeah.
Andrew (43:53.55)
Three might be pushing it though. So Akron, Western Michigan, Marshall. Yes, you can run up the score against those guys. There’s three, but what about don’t you? Can’t you run up the score against Michigan State?
Stephen Means (43:59.079)
So that’s it. That’s all I’m saying. That’s it.
No. No.
Andrew (44:06.094)
So you don’t, so basically you’re out on all big 10. So, so basically you’re saying you could only run up the score against the non cons.
Stephen Means (44:12.071)
I, you have to remember there’s rule changes now. So like the clock doesn’t stop as no often, which is like shortened games a little bit here. Also that’s assuming that Ohio state’s going to come out and all gas, no breaks every, that’s, that doing it against big 10 teams is assuming Ohio state is going to do every single week to a team. That’s not Michigan, Penn state, Oregon, you know, top tier teams in the big 10.
Andrew (44:16.046)
Yep. Yeah, for sure.
Stephen Means (44:37.127)
what they did to Michigan State in 2021. And that’s not always happened. Sometimes you just start games slow, right? Sometimes when teams are still on their script, they’re able to keep up with teams, even if they’re not nearly as talented as they are. This is not a conversation about any game after September 21st for me. This is a conversation about you’ve got a very veteran roster, or a lot of these guys have already played a lot of football, but when you have a very veteran roster, that means you’re also six months away from having a very inexperienced roster.
Andrew (44:40.366)
Of course.
Stephen Means (45:05.319)
which is exactly what’s going to happen when February rolls around and they start winning workouts. This is about act for me. When I hear run up the score and pick your own score, non -conference games against group of five teams are the only teams I think about. And if there’s other opportunities late in the season, if we get to the Purdue game and they’re up 45 to seven in the fourth quarter, and there’s a series where you can get.
Aaron Nolan or Julian Sand or Lincoln Kinos on the field? Like we saw that last year with the Michigan State game where they got up. So they saw an opportunity to put Lincoln Kinos in the game. Those are with big 10 games. It’s more like matter of fact, you see an opportunity in this game and this kid has only played three games. So he has one more game to play. So when I.
Andrew (45:53.07)
Well, yeah, that was kind of the way that I read that question though. The way that I read that question was like, maybe a little bit different than you where it was like, you’re going to beat Akron and Western Michigan and Marshall by as many points as you want. But if it’s 28 to three at the end of the second quarter, should you push to put Michigan State in the dirt to bury them early so you can do that? Should you push to get Purdue down and Northwestern down and Indiana down?
Stephen Means (46:06.887)
Yes.
Andrew (46:22.67)
You know, should you push to get those programs down where it’s, hey, you know, you’re up, you know, 21 to 321 to 10, whatever, 24 to 7, whatever. Like, should you push to get those games to blow out games? Because you’re going to blow out the line on that game is 50. You’re not worried about that. I think the way that I read that was don’t, you know, you’re going to you’re going to run up the score even if you don’t try like they don’t. I don’t think Ohio State tried to run up the score against Western Kentucky and they scored 63 points.
They scored a couple defensive touchdowns like they just did that on their own. So I didn’t even look at those games. I was I kind of read that question is like when you’re playing a big 10 team and you have a chance to put your foot on their throat. Do you do it early should you do it early to really make that game on competitive in the first half like against the Michigan State or against the Purdue like a Purdue is going to be really bad. That’s the game after Penn State like should the argument could be made. Let’s get in and get out of here. Let’s try to make this ugly fast.
Stephen Means (47:06.375)
So.
Stephen Means (47:19.879)
Yeah, but they never classify only Big 10 games. They just said games in general. Alabama doesn’t, Alabama’s score differential isn’t that much different than Ohio State’s is when you get to the SEC play. The only difference is Alabama plays Chattanooga the week before its rivalry game. So they randomly have a week where they’re winning a game 66 to 10 when they should be playing conference games. I think.
The bigger part for me, yeah, sure. I do think the first three games of the season, we should be seeing freshmen play. We should be seeing second and third stringers play because the score doesn’t matter. Now, is that going to happen at 28 to three? No, because also you have older guys who want to play football. But halfway through the third quarter, yeah, I’m not expecting JT to him allow to still be on the field when there’s three minutes left in the third quarter. I’m just not in the first three weeks.
If there are other games on the schedule later in the year where that happens, then yes, get those guys opportunities. I think what the texture is getting at is similar to what we saw in 2019, Orion Day’s first season as a head coach where.
They beat Florida Atlantic 45 to 21. They started off slow. That should have been a game where you should have been able to get some guys in late, but you started off slow. The next week against Cincinnati, they won 42 to zero. They got guys in. And as a matter of fact, it was the second stringers who made sure that they kept that shutout in that game.
Indiana 51 to 10, we saw Master T have an opportunity. Master T was your second string running back when he was closer to being third string than he was first string just because of how they use J .K. Dobbins that year. And he finished the year third team all Big Ten because he had that many opportunities. The Miami, Ohio game when they won 76 to five, we got to see extended looks at guys like Garrett Wilson and Jameson Williams and some of the and Harry Miller. And I can keep going. Big Ten schedule, they beat Maryland 73 to 14. So there was an opportunity to do that. They beat.
Stephen Means (49:09.257)
Rockers 56 to 21, but they were up by so much at halftime that they so they told J .K. Dobbins your day was done. But this is more about the early season games for me, where it’s a combination of is a team you can pick your score against and you’ve got a veteran roster. So let’s get young guys. The other part of the question is, I think the more important part of this, where they talked about how when they put the backups in, they run something basic. This was a thing with Kyle McCord in 2022 where.
Ohio State would be blowing teams out. They put Kyle McCord in there and he’d become a handoff merchant. And we were asking Ryan Day why that was the case. And some of that is Ryan Day wants to be a good sport about things. He doesn’t want to run up the score on things. But also it’s like Kyle McCord might be your quarterback next year. How come he can’t just run the offense? So that’s where I do agree with the texture 100%. I want to see in those first three weeks of the season when we know Ohio State’s probably going to score at least 40 points and probably give up a combined 14 points.
to those three teams to be frank about it. I don’t think that’s mean. That’s just being true. You’re playing Marshall, Western Michigan and Akron and you’re supposed to have the best defense in the country. You shouldn’t be giving up any points. I think that’s an opportunity for us to see extended looks at Julian and air and Lincoln, Keenholz and Milan Graham and the Armstrong twins in.
You know, Aaron Scott and Bryce West and Calvin Simpson and on down the list because what it can do and Ryan Day talked about this all in 2019. It sets up your next team.
Right. The fact that Harry Miller and Garrett Wilson and Jameson Williams and Zach Harrison got to play so much as true freshmen because a lot of the scores were lopsided. They were ready to go in 2020 when all three of those guys were starters and on down the list. When you lost that opportunity in 2020 because of how the season was, you lost a lot of that experience. So now you get out there in 2021 and you’re having platoon rotations because you have no idea who your best players are yet. So I don’t run it up the score.
Stephen Means (51:09.447)
that makes it sound mean. But maybe, I don’t know. I don’t know. The running of the score part makes it sound mean. But just the idea of, should we be seeing young guys play extended opportunities in these first three games? 100%, 100%. They’re all right spots. You’re playing group of five teams and you’re one of the three best teams in college football.
Andrew (51:25.358)
In the right spots, yes.
Stephen Means (51:32.455)
It’s all the right spot. You, yes, the first half, you’re trying to figure out your quarterback situation. You got guys who want to play football, but if you want to start seven minute mark on the third quarter, start pulling guys. I don’t think that’s craziest to expect Ohio State to do that. The first three weeks of the season, especially when you’ve got a bi -week after your first two games and then the Michigan state game, it’s time to play real football. Last question.
From our guy Ryan and Witten Woods. Ryan’s awesome, man. You’ve been awesome, man. Awesome. Thanks for sticking with us, Ryan. All of our textures are awesome. 614 -350 -3315. Serious thought on Michigan. LOL. Listen, I’ve heard a lot of talk about Michigan being bad slash Michigan only going eight and five, eight and four, whatever it is. What’s the chances of that? Can Jerome Moore really downgrade that program that bad? I understand they lost a lot, but coming.
But coming back, they still have a top running back, pretty okay offensive line and a solid defense. I hate Michigan just as much as the next man, but I feel like a lot of college football is discrediting right now and could be worrisome. Give them the motivation. Okay, let’s have a conversation about Michigan. And it doesn’t have to be a long one, because we just did a whole Michigan week, so we don’t have to go extremely long on this. So I think for me, Andrew, and I think you might agree with some of this.
Andrew (52:42.646)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stephen Means (52:53.799)
It’s the combination of losing your head coach, losing your strength and conditioning coordinator, losing some just key parts of a program that keep a programs like foundation together mixed with the amount of talent they lost mixed with the big 10 just expanded mixed with the team that is so not as you know, that you’re most comparing them to is an Ohio state team. Well, while you were losing all that, they were reloading all of that and then upgrading in some other areas, right?
Andrew (53:21.646)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (53:23.079)
The biggest thing Ohio State lost this off season was Marvin Harrison Jr. in my call as first and second round draft picks, right? Because even the Kyle McCord, I’m not diminishing. I’m just saying that on the list of things you gained versus lost this off season, the list of gains is just so much longer. Even Kyle McCord losing, that’s a big deal because you lost her starting quarterback, but.
Andrew (53:32.174)
And the Marvelous was big. The Marvelous is a big loss. Don’t get us wrong. But yeah, yeah.
Stephen Means (53:49.159)
We’re assuming that at bare minimum, whoever the quarterback this year is at least as good as 23 -com cord, which is the kind of the point here is that maybe he’s a step above that. I think for me, when I look at Michigan, it’s less about that, knowing more about they’ve kind of got a tough schedule.
Andrew (54:04.302)
So I pulled that up. I want to go through that when you’re done with your point here.
Stephen Means (54:07.079)
Like, I mean, I mean, not all the games are tough, but like Texas and Oregon, man, and Ohio State, you got two of the, you got three of the, well, the top four, like in whatever order you want to put it in are going to be Ohio State, Oregon, Georgia, and Texas in some order. And you got to play three of those guys. And now the good thing is two of them at home. That helps, right? But the big one’s not at home and that team hates you.
Andrew (54:15.47)
Three top five, they might have three top five teams on their schedule.
Andrew (54:24.11)
Yeah. Yeah.
Andrew (54:30.67)
Mm -hmm.
Stephen Means (54:35.559)
but it’s the schedule and it’s just too many unknowns right now where I don’t actually think Michigan’s gonna go eight and four. I think they might go nine and three, maybe 10 and two if they sneak some games here. If like, maybe they go 10 and two if like, if Texas or Oregon aren’t as good as maybe we thought they were gonna be, right? But I think they might go eight, nine and three. It’s just, it’s easy to get to eight and four.
When you’ve already got three expected losses with where things stand right now, it’s not a lot of wiggle room.
Andrew (55:04.462)
Yeah.
Andrew (55:07.982)
That’s that’s what I was going to say. To me, it’s a three. It’s a three part answer. Number one, it’s I don’t think it’s anything Sharone did. You know, like Ryan asked that question and he said, can more really downgrade the program that bad? I don’t think it’s that. I just think that Jim Harbaugh is a good coach. And I know a lot of people are going to disagree with that considering everything that went on. But like the guy has a track record, man, like he was he won at Stanford. He won everywhere he went. He won at Michigan. He won with the 49ers like in the.
Like the 49ers really only got rid of him because there was some beef going on with the owner and him. Like it wasn’t a, a performance issue, right? Like it was, it was, you know, there was some other stuff going on kind of behind the scenes. Like that, that was a big problem. And, you know, Harbaugh’s won everywhere and he’s a good coach and losing a good coach matters. I don’t care if Sharon Moore is really good. We just don’t know that yet. Like let’s pretend Sharon Moore is just a pretty solid coach.
That’s still a downgrade in my opinion, right? Like if Sharon Moore is pretty like Sharon Moore could be better than, you know, some of the disasters that they’ve had, Rich Rodriguez and some of these other guys, he could be better than them. And, you know, you know, kind of at that level and you’re just not the same as Jim Harbaugh. And that that might be not enough. Michigan does still have some dudes. So to the point of like to the tone of Ryan’s question, yes, Michigan still does have some dudes, but.
The quarterback is the second point for me that I’m like, man, I just don’t know. Like Alex Orji, is that the guy that you think can do the things that JJ McCarthy did? I don’t know. You know, you are losing offensive linemen. Does Michigan kind of like Michigan replaces offensive linemen at a level where you’re not really concerned about it, you know, kind of in a similar light to Ohio State where it’s like, yeah, they lost Marvin Harris in junior, but they got a lot of other really good, really good guys coming in. You.
You feel kind of the same way about Michigan, like, yeah, Sharon Moore is an offensive line guy. They always regret offensive line. Well, they’ll be fine on the offensive line. You know, even if it does take a little bit of a step back from last year. But I just a quarterback, I just don’t know if that’s going to be enough because what did we talk all the time about JJ McCarthy? He’s good enough, at least he might be really good, but he makes the plays when you need to make them. You know, that that reverse pass play against.
Andrew (57:30.382)
Alabama in the Rose Bowl where he like caught the one handed pass and then throws the like the pass downfield. You know, that’s a great play. He makes the play against Ohio State where he, you know, immediately one of the safeties comes out of the game and he attacks Milly. Cardford goes over the top of his shoulder. Like there are just plays that he made that I don’t know about or G and quarterback’s a big deal. I don’t know if you’ve heard this, but then the last thing is the schedule. It’s like if you’re like the only way that I don’t think they, I mean,
They’re not going to win double digit games if you think Texas, Oregon and Ohio State are losses. That’s mathematically impossible. And then, you know, like excluding the Fresno State and the Arkansas States, which are, I mean, those are dubs. Like, you know, those are immediate wins. And if they lose their bigger problems at hand, but like they also going to play USC and like, you might think they’re better than USC, but USC is not a pushover. They got to play Minnesota. They got to go to Washington, like.
Stephen Means (58:20.039)
push over.
Andrew (58:25.454)
There’s a there’s a their first half of their schedule is really tough. They got you know, they play six games for their first bi -week Fresno State, Texas, Arkansas State, USC, Minnesota and at Washington. Them going four and two in that stretch might be good like we might classify that as good.
Stephen Means (58:42.791)
I think.
that Michigan that USC games that Michigan I think Michigan is going to win that game. But also I don’t.
Andrew (58:49.038)
That’s fine. But I but like if USC wins that game, I’m not going to be like, this is insane. Like Michigan will be favored. But but also what if Michigan gets trounced by Texas and we’re just like Michigan doesn’t have that magic anymore, then maybe there’s just there’s so much to know. So I think the tone of the question is right. Maybe the disrespect is there. But like you could convince me Michigan goes like an ugly eight and four or maybe depending on how the schedule breaks.
Stephen Means (58:54.823)
I will. I will.
Stephen Means (59:03.831)
That’s not going to matter.
Andrew (59:18.286)
Like if, you know, if Washington and USC are good, you could convince me they’re like eight and four, seven and five. And I don’t think that that’s crazy if the quarterback situation is a mess.
Stephen Means (59:29.415)
I think Michigan’s going to have a much better record than USC is going to have. And I can’t wait. If I’m right about this, it’s not going to matter. Nobody cares. We cover Ohio State.
Andrew (59:35.918)
USC also has a very tough schedule to be fair, but yeah.
Stephen Means (59:39.047)
USC is not very good, in my opinion. I think there’s just fundamental differences between when Michigan had to replace their legendary head coach and when Ohio State had to replace their legendary head coach. Obviously they both decided to promote their offensive coordinators at their position of strength. For Ohio State it was quarterback, for Michigan it was offensive line. I think the fundamental difference there is Ryan Day had a Justin Fields sitting in the transfer portal, plus he had Jeff Okuda and Shayshun coming back, right?
Michigan, no they got no credit credit ms. Graham Will Johnson. So you just got some jay shung jeff mcgood vibes going on there But there’s not there wasn’t adjusting fields of a play on the offensive line and that doesn’t have the same impact
as a five star quarterback who’s just stuck behind a quarterback that spent two years going to the playoff. And so it’s Kirby Smart didn’t want to bench him vibes to it. And so there’s just not juice around the program. And I think what can happen for Michigan, because they’re probably going to beat Fresno State. Michigan can use that Texas game win or lose, because Steve Sarkisian does have this tendency to lose games that are kind of statement games too. So I don’t want to.
rubbed that like the Oklahoma game last year. So I don’t want to completely dismiss that either. I’m open to, you know, Michigan at bare minimum, make some noise in that game. And we’re going, okay, well, this is going to be interesting. And I think Ohio State fans would like that a little bit. I don’t know if Ohio State fans completely want Michigan to fall off a cliff yet. They’re not going to be what they were last year, but I do think that Ohio State fans would love it if Michigan is at least decent because they want to be the ones to push them off the cliff.
Right? It’s okay. They want them to be wobbling at the cliff. Sure. But I think Ohio State fans would love it if on November 30th, when they come to Columbus, Ohio State gets to be the team that pushes Michigan back off the cliff. And you can’t do that if they’ve already got four and five losses coming into that game. You already lost the ability to get your revenge on hardball and get your revenge on Blake Corum and JJ McCarthy. That can’t happen. Fine.
Andrew (01:01:21.454)
So, yeah.
Stephen Means (01:01:47.975)
At least you can get your revenge and the ultimate thing that matters here. And that’s the program of Michigan. And so I think.
Perfect. And this is for me. And if you get the text 614 -350 -3315, if you’re as fans, if you disagree, please let me know. But I think best case scenario is Michigan has two losses. They’re nine and two heading into week, the final week of the season. And Ohio State can be the team that can put the final nail on the coffin. If I was an Ohio State fan, I would love that. Cause that means Michigan is still good. They’re still around. It’s just, they played three of the five best teams in college football. And that’s.
difficult to ask anybody to beat those three teams, but Ohio State got a chance to whip their butt.
Andrew (01:02:27.79)
So Ohio State plays, that is the weekend that Ohio State plays Western Michigan. And if memory serves, that game is at 730. And then, so that day, Ohio State plays at 730 and Michigan plays at noon. Steven, I don’t want to drag this out longer than it needs to go, but I think that Texas -Michigan game might be the most interesting non -Ohio State game that we are going to watch this year. Like,
There’s going to be better, I think, like Georgia plays Texas in late October, which is on Ohio State’s bye week. So thank God for that. Thank the scheduling gods for that, that we get to watch that game on that Saturday. So there’s better games. Like Missouri is going to go to Alabama a week later. That’s a huge game because Missouri, go look at their schedule. Missouri might be undefeated in late October.
Stephen Means (01:03:02.631)
Yeah, I think that’s the most important thing. Yeah.
Yeah, I...
Andrew (01:03:22.638)
Like Missouri is going to play Alabama. They still got Luther Burden. They still have that cook kid who’s who’s like a third or fourth year starter now. Like there are going to be better games. I’m not saying that like and I’m talking non Ohio State games. They’re going to be better football games. But I am fascinated by that Texas Michigan game in week two because is is Texas just going to run in there and just run them out of the building like is Texas just this?
college football team that is is Texas back? I don’t know that we could have that conversation or we could bring up that again. Like is Texas back full time? Like I don’t know. Can Michigan kind of hang on to the magic that they had in 2023 or is that over? I’m I’m fascinated by that matchup and I and I cannot wait to see what happens in Ann Arbor on September 7th because I think that that’s going to be really, really indicative of kind of the way that.
you know, we’re going to view both of those programs headed into the rest.
Stephen Means (01:04:23.015)
Texas has to play Georgia and the way we play Oklahoma, I think that’s much more interesting. I think the only interesting thing, in terms of an Ohio State’s perspective for that game is right now, Ohio State’s 2021 quarterback room is 0 -3 against Michigan as starting quarterbacks. CJ lost twice, Kyle McCord lost. I’m just saying, man. I’m just saying. He was on that one. Here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. Here’s the thing.
Andrew (01:04:27.662)
Yeah, sure.
Andrew (01:04:40.462)
You’re gonna go and fall.
Andrew (01:04:46.862)
There’s something, yeah, at that point, at that point, yeah.
Stephen Means (01:04:51.879)
He was at Michigan in the stand. He was on the sideline that day when Ohio State lost to Michigan for the first time in a decade as a true freshman. And now he gets his shot at Michigan. Can Ohio State’s 2021 quarterback room get a win over Michigan? And Quinn Uers is their last hope to get to do that. And he’ll get his chance on September 7th.
Andrew (01:05:12.462)
If you want if you want a tweet that’s going to get like 50 retweets and like 800 replies, that’s got to be in your draft. Ohio State’s 2021 quarterback room is 0 and 4 against Michigan.
Stephen Means (01:05:16.103)
I’m not tweeting anything. I’m going to...
Stephen Means (01:05:27.527)
The week of that game, get the text 614 -350 -3315. I’m definitely going to be texting about it. I think I’m writing about it too, but Ohio State’s quarterback room is winless. And two different guys have had a shot at it so far. Two of the four guys who are in that room have already had their shot at Michigan and they’re 0 -3. CJ Stroud’s 0 -2, Kyle McCord’s 0 -1. Quinn Uers gets his shot now. As the last one who’s going to get his because Jack Miller retired.
Andrew (01:05:31.406)
Yeah.
Stephen Means (01:05:53.895)
medically retired from football after transferring to Florida. Can Ohio State’s 2021 quarterback room get a win over Michigan? It’s going to be interesting to watch. Get the text 614 -350 -3315. As you’re listening to this pod, Andrew and I are out at the Woody at Ohio State’s first.
Recruiting camp of the summer. Well, it’s going to be interesting to see who’s out there on day one. I do know that on day two, Andrew, on Thursday, you hinted at this on Monday. I’ll excuse you on the Tuesday pod that maybe Jakeem Stewart shows up to a camp. I think he’s coming. I think he’ll be there on Thursday. So it should be an interesting week of camping for Ohio State. Get the text 614 -350 -3315. All news, all analysis, everything that you could possibly want. That’ll wrap things up here on Buckeye Talk.
Andrew (01:06:23.79)
Yeah, that’d be great.
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