CLEVELAND, Ohio - It’s time for this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast with Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. In this episode, we get into the banged-up Cavs, and what they should look like heading into the playoffs. We also try to make a lineup for the Guardians as the enter their last week of spring training. And we delve more into the Browns’ signing of Jameis Winston to be the backup quarterback to Deshaun Watson, and their signing of Tyler Huntley
Also, Terry, has asked fans to send in stories of when and how they got a foul ball at a baseball game; and for fans who are on the Browns’ waiting list for season tickets, send us your thoughts on how long you’ve been waiting, and why you’ve stuck it out. You can email those, along with any other comments or questions you may have, to [email protected]. We shared a couple of foul-ball fan stories today.
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Highlights:
- 00:00 Introduction
- 01:31 State of the Cavs
- 04:10 Cavs’ Playoff Hopes
- 05:17 Cavs’ Roster and Marcus Morris
- 06:22 Cavs’ Playoff Matchups
- 20:24 Listener Question and Guardians’ Lineup
- 25:18 Guardians’ Bullpen Concerns
- 28:23 Guardians’ Starting Rotation
- 29:59 James Winston and the Browns
- 34:10 Tyler Huntley and the Browns’ Quarterback Situation
- 35:18 Why the Browns Didn’t Go After Justin Fields
- 36:48 Preparing Deshaun Watson for the Season
- 37:28 The Importance of Having Multiple Quarterbacks
- 38:34 Joshua Dobbs’ Signing and the Browns’ Quarterback Options
- 42:02 The Importance of Pre-Snap Motion in the Browns’ Offense
- 43:16 The Perception of Kevin Stefanski
- 44:35 Terry’s Faith & You column: Memories of a Student in Cleveland
- 48:21 Another in our series of letters from Cleveland Fans
- 53:59 Foul Ball Stories
- 55:57 Terry’s Book of the Week: ‘Saving Grayson’ by Chris Fabry
- 01:03:26 David’s Book Recommendation: ‘The Creative Act: A Way of Being’ by Rick Rubin
Read an automated transcript of this week’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings.
David Campbell (00:01.782)
Hey, it’s time for this week’s edition of the Terry’s Talking Podcast. I’m David Campbell, your host, and I am joined by Mr. Terry Pluto, the only guy in Cleveland who’s not on the injured list, I think, this week, right? How are you doing?
Terry Pluto (00:12.298)
Pretty much, yeah. I am well and I had a good time covering the Mac tournament and college basketball with the mid-major flavors like one of my favorite things. And I tell you David, you were to some of those games too that the crowds were great and it’s just neat to see. I never I remember when they moved it from Toledo to there to Cleveland.
David Campbell (00:32.703)
Absolutely.
Terry Pluto (00:38.998)
And I understood getting in a bigger market, but I had no clue that they would be able to build the fan base that they have at Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse. So I think they had 8,000 for the final with Kenton Akron. It’s just such a nice event for the town.
David Campbell (00:54.966)
Yeah, do you want to get into that first? We’ve got a lot of stuff to get to today. I know we want to talk about the crabs and look.
Terry Pluto (00:58.27)
No, I just, yeah, we got a lot of things. We’ll double back to that, but I figured I’d mention that.
David Campbell (01:02.87)
All right. All right, sounds good. Well, we’re gonna get into the Cavs to start off here. And I know we’re gonna, man, the Guardians open a week from Thursday in Oakland. It’s coming up fast. And I know the Browns have been making a lot of moves. We can get into that. We also got a couple of really good foul ball stories that you asked for last week from fans asking about foul balls they caught. And you told a story last week about a foul ball that you caught. So we’ll get into that. And yeah, a lot more. So, all right, I guess we’ll start with the Cavs today, Terry. 43 and 25.
Terry Pluto (01:11.001)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (01:17.714)
Good.
Terry Pluto (01:31.075)
Mm-hmm
David Campbell (01:31.638)
They’re playing 632 basketball. There’s 14 games left, man. Playoffs are coming fast. The Cavs are still third in the East. They’re a game behind Milwaukee and 11 behind Boston, and they’re banged up. Every week we come and talk on the podcast about the Cavs, and they’re just banged up. They’re banged up all the time. But what are you seeing in the Cavs right now? What’s striking you about how they’re playing?
Terry Pluto (01:54.058)
I’m really glad to see that they just haven’t fallen apart with Mitchell being out and I will say I remember when they talked about putting platelets or something in his knee That was a bit alarming to me. I looked it up online you couldn’t tell much but it just you still want to hear that and when he came back Yeah, yes, which is supposed to I’m not sure where to come. Yeah, right. I’m not gonna even
David Campbell (02:12.862)
It’s the platen rich plasma stuff. Is that what you’re talking about? Yeah, right.
Aid, healing, and yeah, yeah. We’re not doctors.
Terry Pluto (02:22.958)
I play, I play amateur doctor, but I’m just lost on that one. But whenever you hear kind of a different type of treatment given to an athlete, a red flag always goes up with me just because it’s not out of the usual. Oh, you know, we’re going to arrest them or we’re going to do this. So, uh, to see that, uh, they’ve hung in there and like they won last night. I thought Garland was horrible. I think he was one for nine on.
three pointers and that and to see Laverte stepping up and Laverte’s point guard skills just keep growing and growing all year. I mean he could really run the offense and he’s so big you know long in terms of his arms that that’s he’s been I think the most underrated player on the team by far.
David Campbell (03:11.902)
And Terry, all these injuries, Chris Fedor was writing about this on cleveland.com last couple of days, but all the injuries are putting him into a lot of starting positions, which is actually, I think, helping his case for sixth man of the year, because he’s playing a lot of starters minutes, putting up a lot of starter stats, and that’s going to help his cause. But why don’t I run through the injuries real quick, Terry? We found out today that Donovan Mitchell, he’s battling that knee bone bruise, but also over the weekend, he took an elbow or an arm or probably an elbow from.
Terry Pluto (03:14.962)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (03:22.863)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (03:41.026)
Tristan Thompson and today, and we’re taping this late Tuesday afternoon, Donovan Mitchell had a procedure done at the Cleveland Clinic to kind of reset that nose or realign it, I think was the word they used. And he’s going to be out at least a week. And we can come back to that. Max Truss battling a knee sprain. Evan Mobley has been dealing with his ankle. Dean Wade’s been out. It’s just been one thing after another. I wanted to ask you, Terry, do you think if there is a silver lining in what Donovan Mitchell is going through.
Terry Pluto (03:54.688)
Yeah.
David Campbell (04:10.594)
With 14 games left, it’s probably not terrible that he’s getting a week to recharge a little bit before the playoffs. I guess if you were to find a silver lining, that might be it, right? He could use a break a little bit, right?
Terry Pluto (04:21.678)
Maybe but he’s missed a lot of games already. I think he’s missed 14 or 15 already, whatever it is. So no, I’ll tell you that I’m not buying it. Not at all. No, I wouldn’t want him playing 40 minutes a night going into the playoffs, but I’d want him on the floor because when the Cavs are at their best, the ball is in his hands. That’s what we’ve learned this year. And he’s running that offense and he is the sun, the other players are the planets revolving around him. And it...
David Campbell (04:30.35)
All right.
Terry Pluto (04:50.894)
it really clicks extremely well. Garland to me, you put a lot of pressure on him handling the ball, the offense, he gets beat up and he wears down. So this is, I think a key part here is JB is gonna have to play Porter more. You know, he’s relying on Laverne to kind of, you know, carry things, but.
Not only you don’t have Mitchell, but Struce was somebody who I thought his ball handling was underrated. And I don’t know when he’s coming back, what do they call it? Does he have a knee bruise or what does he have?
David Campbell (05:28.566)
Yeah, it’s a knee strain, I think is what they’re calling. Yep.
Terry Pluto (05:30.21)
Whatever that is. Yeah. And so that’s a thing. And also, um, I sometimes worry a little bit about Jared Allen wearing down because he does have an injury history. That’s one thing he, he tends to get, get hurt some every year. And, um, remember last year he was hurt towards the end of the season and not having mobility puts a lot of pressure on him. So this is going to be very tricky for JB cause he’s going to want to
win as many games as he can to keep that higher seed. But then you don’t want to just run this whole group into the ground. Getting Morris, wow, that was, what a pickup. And it’s, NBA is strange how that happens where a guy’s a good player and suddenly a contender trades him somewhere else and then he just sort of dumped out there. And you pick him up and you go, what’s that about?
David Campbell (06:22.71)
Yeah. So it’s crazy, Terry. So Marcus Morris has been sitting on his couch or playing with his kids or hanging out with his family for like the last month plus. And I guess he and JB go back to when JB was in Houston and Marcus Morris was drafted and they’ve kind of been keeping in touch over the last couple of months. Um, this is all based on what Morris told Chris Fedor and they just decided to bring them on a 10 day contract. So I think what we’re going to see here.
Terry Pluto (06:25.006)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (06:31.19)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (06:48.266)
I mean, after last night, the guy’s 34 years old comes in and scores what? 14 points in 20 minutes, if I remember right, four rebounds. And this is the kind of guy who you in a playoff series, you want to get some minutes out of a guy like this to help hold the fort or get you over the top. When you’re trying to close out a lead in the fourth quarter, could you see them signing him to another 10 day and then just keeping him? Yeah.
Terry Pluto (06:52.922)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (07:14.558)
They better. How about that? I don’t even want to discuss it. They better. And I’m basically just want to make sure he was healthy. He was averaging seven points and 17 minutes a game for Philadelphia earlier in the season. Then he was traded to San Antonio. And that was one of those, we take the veteran contract to do whatever, and then you dump the guy and he’s available. I mean, a year, I think the previous season, not this year, I think he averaged 11 for the Clippers and you go back a couple of years, he averaged 15. I mean, he’s a viable NBA player.
Um, and so I also think getting Tristan back helps. It was funny how Tristan draws these offensive fouls because he dropped, he, he drives the, the defenders nuts with his relentless going after offensive rebounds. They ended up tackling him and, and he knows all the tricks about kind of getting in the first elbow and then the officials don’t see that and they see the second one. Uh, so I adding him, him being Thompson and adding, um, Morris.
is huge to kind of keep this thing going in the right direction. They’re going to need though, to take some of that burden off of Garland and the backcourt and take some off of Laverte. And that’s where I think Porter has to play more. Um, and just watching them lately, once in a while Merrill will like drive in the lane and actually shoot the ball. But sometimes he’s in there, he’s eight 10 feet from the basket and they’re at guarding him, shoot it. You know,
I don’t care that analytics says that’s not a great shot. I don’t want to see him driving all the way in there, turning away from a very easy shot, and then throwing some ball 27 feet away from the basket to Jared Allen or something. And I’ve seen that. It’s like, don’t do that. You’re a basketball player. You’re not just a run, a stand and shoot guy or a run and shoot guy all about threes. I believe something like 85% of Merrill’s points have come on three pointers.
I mean, I would have said, unless it, now you’re more of a basketball player than that. And they need him to be more of that right now.
David Campbell (09:16.694)
Yeah, the mid range game, it’s kind of become a four letter word in basketball these days. It’s, it’s weird to think about.
Terry Pluto (09:20.626)
But you watch Niang play, you know, he likes the threes, but he’ll go rumbling in there and you know, dum, he goes about six feet from the basket and flips the ball in. He, you know, one guy bounces off him, he throws another one around and what a wonderful pickup he has been for this team because they would be in huge trouble without him. You know, Kobe’s done a nice job of adding veterans.
If they just had strews during this period, they would be in much better shape because that guy I think really is one of the heartbeat guys for the team. That said, we’re talking about what? They had the third best record in the East, a game behind Milwaukee, and all we do is talk about their medical report.
David Campbell (10:10.51)
Yeah. So Terry, I wanted to get your thoughts on this. So I’m watching the tournament bracket for the NCAA has come out on Sunday. And I started thinking like, you don’t know what you’re going to get in any of those NCAA tournament games. Right. And I kind of started thinking the calves, the calves are like, it’s like, they’re going to be in the NCAA tournament. I have no idea what to expect from these guys. I don’t know which Darius Garland we’re going to see. I don’t know what kind of Evan Mobley we’re going to see. I mean, you know how it is going to these last 14 games. It’s kind of like getting your pitching rotation.
Terry Pluto (10:22.894)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (10:40.138)
set for a playoff series, right? You gotta make sure everything’s in order, guys are healthy. But do you have any concept of what the Cavs are gonna look like? Was there a stretch of this season so far that you’ve seen where you’re like, that’s what it should look like? Or are you just like everybody else waiting to see what this is gonna look like when they get into the playoffs in mid April?
Terry Pluto (11:00.622)
If they have Mitchell and Struz and it’s a big F, that’s a good team, even without Mobley. I just think that goes back to their identity is around Mitchell, not just scoring, but handling the ball, setting the tempo. And Mitchell was averaging five rebounds a game. And then you turn around, you have Struz and you have Niang. It’s a different looking roster. I think Jared Allen has learned.
He can score. He really can. Now, if you think about how players are, they come into the league and then they get told, well, this is, it’s actually somebody like Gowan. While he was a first-round pick, he was not a glamour selection or whatever. Say, if you want a long-term career in this league, you rebound and you defend and you dunk. And that’s all he was told. And he did it for quite a while. And then it’s like, no, there’s more to your game than that. And they’re squeezing it out of him now.
and he’s growing. So that’s what it could be. But really so much is predicated on the medical report, as she said. And I don’t know what, and then on top of it, so they’ve had what a busted jaw with Garland and a broken nose with Mitchell this year. I mean, if you heard that, you think they were both on a fight with each other. So I mean, but it’s obviously happened on the floor, but it’s like, man, oh man.
David Campbell (12:26.774)
This isn’t the Golden State Warriors, right? You guys are not slugging each other yet.
Terry Pluto (12:28.278)
Yeah, no, it wasn’t Draymond Green and I forgot who it was, Poole or somebody. It’s like you need guys wearing face masks or something. So we’ll see. I’m trying to think who else. What else comes to mind with you with the calves, David?
David Campbell (12:47.882)
Well, I think when they went on that run after the first of the year and we saw Mitchell, like you’ve been talking about this, Terry Mitchell running the show like Michael Jordan used to do everything going around him. Like you were just talking about. And I think everybody doing what they do best and being healthy. And then you drop in guys like Morris and Dean Wade and a core, you know, Coro is going to have some interesting matchups in the playoffs, depending on who they face, like you need guys to be at their best. I think the Cavs can win a couple of series and then who knows, you know, so.
Terry Pluto (12:55.239)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (13:13.11)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (13:18.038)
The other night, O’Coro did struggle defensively against Indiana, but Halliburton had a miserable night and the reason was O’Coro. He was all over him. And that’s always a way to measure his value. Kind of look at the top shooting guard, or basically the top scorer as long as he’s not a big man, and O’Coro’s on him. And you can judge his value that way. He has improved his outside shooting.
I still wish once in a while more he would drive to the rim because he’s so strong and athletic. I haven’t seen the exact breakdown lately, but he was like in the top five players for a while of just simply scoring, you know, like fast break layups. They have that because you’ve seen him, the old thing, he’s going, I don’t know where this whole thing about he’s downhill. They’ll go downhill to football first. Now they’re running downhill on basketball. Last time I checked the floor was level.
David Campbell (14:10.231)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (14:11.826)
Just some guys are faster than others and more athletic and you want to maximize that talent
David Campbell (14:17.318)
Yeah, and you don’t want to be in the way when he’s going to the rim on a fast break. So Terry, I did, I did have the list here of games missed by Cavs this year. Uh, Evan Mobley 31, Darius Garland 24, Donovan Mitchell 19, and Karis Levert 12, Struces at 8, Allen 5, Acoril 9, and Dean Wade 11, Sam Merrill 5.
Terry Pluto (14:19.554)
Yes. No.
Terry Pluto (14:27.646)
Wow.
Terry Pluto (14:38.97)
I thought that like I forgot. Uh, liver was hurt for what 12.
David Campbell (14:44.778)
Yeah, Laverte was 12 games, yep. Elbow wrist, the end game is true.
Terry Pluto (14:47.687)
And even a Chora was at what, nine?
David Campbell (14:51.39)
Nine games with that knee, yep.
Terry Pluto (14:53.715)
I would have guessed like five for each. I really would have so
But I know, JB is a lousy coach. I’ll get some more emails.
David Campbell (15:03.666)
Hey, real quick before we move on from the Cavs, Terry, the Cavs are playing the Heat tomorrow. They have another game coming up with them soon too. I wanted to get your early thoughts here. If you have to choose between number five Orlando, number six Philly, number seven Pacers, or number eight Heat for the first round, who do you think is an early matchup you’d like to see the Cavs get in the play rule?
Terry Pluto (15:08.295)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (15:23.822)
I want five and seven. I want Indiana and Orlando.
David Campbell (15:28.981)
I agree.
Terry Pluto (15:29.926)
They have less experience in the playoffs. Embiid is a wild card, whether he’s going to play or not. That’s who I want. Some team that’s even more playoff untested than the Cavs. And that would be those two. I also watched that game the other night. Indiana is a strange team. Rick Carlisle’s gotten playing better than they have in quite a while.
I mean, that looked like a bad Cavs clunker. The way they’re playing at home on that thing and are up by 15 in a second quarter against, I mean, think about it. Out there in the four, Tristan Thompson, nobody wanted him, none. Now he’s coming off a 25 game suspension or whatever. Marcus Morris, like you said, is coming out of his backyard, is scoring 14. Garland’s having a terrible game. Jarrett was good, but not super.
Uh, Merrill wasn’t barrel had a nice game and they won. They ambushed them on their court. So see that they, Indiana will have some games like that because they just don’t defend very well. Uh, and I think they’re number two in pace, which means they played the second quickest base. Uh, so I’d rather play them than somebody like Philadelphia. And I don’t want to play Miami. I just don’t, I don’t care how bad they are, what they’re doing. Um,
David Campbell (16:55.83)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (16:59.862)
You know, they’re going to make it ugly. Uh, people are going to want to fight, you know, all that. No, I don’t want to do that.
David Campbell (17:08.43)
I agree with your order Terry. I would take the Pacers as the most favorable matchup. I think you talk sometimes about who keeps you up at night. If you’re a football defensive coordinator, like who keeps you up at night on the Pacers other than Halliburton? Like I don’t know the answer to that. Orlando I would pick next because of just how physical they are and I don’t know if the Cavs want to play that kind of series, especially in the first round. So I would put them number two and then I would put Philly number three if Embiid is playing the Cavs. They just don’t have an answer for him really. I don’t know maybe.
Terry Pluto (17:14.788)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (17:19.911)
Mm-mm.
Terry Pluto (17:25.351)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (17:36.158)
Yeah.
David Campbell (17:37.078)
Maybe Thompson can help. I don’t know. And then the heat, I agree with them. Number four, you never know what you’re going to get an amazing coach. So yeah, yeah. All right. So the Cavs do have the heat tomorrow on Wednesday. Then they are at Minnesota on Friday at Miami on Sunday for a quick two game road trip, and then they’re back against Charlotte and then they’ve got a big West coast swing coming up in April during the women’s final four when the women’s final four comes to rocket mortgage field house. So a lot of good basketball coming.
Terry Pluto (17:41.614)
And you don’t really want, you just don’t want to see it. That’s exactly it.
David Campbell (18:06.706)
up in Cleveland. So, all right, you want to talk some baseball, Terry? Oh man, where do we start? All right. All right.
Terry Pluto (18:09.406)
Sure.
Terry Pluto (18:14.37)
Here’s where we’re starting chase the water is not making the team. I don’t care if he doesn’t Make it out for the rest of the spring. He’s not making the team. He has 242 professional at bats They want to give him some more and they also want to Go with Esteban Florio and they want to go with De Los Santos the kid the Peril 5 kids
David Campbell (18:18.795)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (18:42.254)
So those two are going to get the first crack at things. And you saw they sent Manzardo out. And the good news is that both of those guys were hitting in spring training. So you can, um, you know, take some solace in that. And the fact that they could bring them up in four weeks, six weeks or whatever. So that’s, that’s one of the things I want to do. I got that right from the top. I don’t think anything’s changed. And in fact, that.
David Campbell (19:08.334)
So Terry, like Chase DeLotter could have hit 600 this spring and he would not be with the big league team. There was nothing he could do, right? This was just the way it was going to be.
Terry Pluto (19:14.466)
No, in fact, the debate for them is, uh, do they put him in double A or triple A? Because I think he only played like eight games in double A. I mean, he’ll last year was his first pro season. Not granted. He’s a college player, but still, um, it’s just, I was trying to define some sort of, uh, equivalent. I mean, unless you talk about Dave Winfield going straight to the big leagues from college or somebody like that, they’re just, when it comes to hitters, they’re just aren’t.
much that you’re going to see you like. So, and you know, we have to accept what this year is, and it is a big rebuild year. That’s what it is.
David Campbell (19:56.818)
Well that brings me to a letter from listener Russell Gantos from Fort Worth, Texas, Terry, and he says, hey guys, I’ve been a Tribe and Guardians fan since 1959 and I live and die with every game as a follower of MLB for 60 plus years while Lightning sometimes hits a team where everyone has a career year. Most teams that win usually have a bunch of guys who have a history of consistent success. As you look at this year’s Guardians team, we have one guy, Jose Ramirez, who fits that mold in eight other spots.
where there is hope and a prayer. Even if we add the Naylor brothers, Jimenez and Stephen Kwan to our probably hopefully list, I see way too many spots that need production for us to challenge for an AL pennant. Please look at the spring results and give us old guys some hope for this year. Terry, can you give Russell any hope of positive things to come? Yeah.
Terry Pluto (20:28.99)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (20:45.406)
content of like winning Boeing away the central division or something. No, no, I can’t. Um, I will say, you know, you have, you have, uh, I always call Jose the secret superstar cause only in Cleveland do we know it. I think you have an emerging star hitter in, in Josh Naylor. He’s put together two really good years. Um, you have an all star caliber second baseman of those often driven with his glove and him and S. Um, and then after that, I like Kwon as a leadoff hitter.
And after that.
David Campbell (21:18.402)
All right. I wanted to, it’s early, but we’re a week out, right? So what is your starting line? What are you putting out there in Oakland on the night of March 28th on the road for the guardians? All right. Let’s start it. Let’s go through the outfield first. Let’s go left to right. Come on. All right. Go ahead then. Do it in the order you want.
Terry Pluto (21:28.482)
Well, you got the nailers, catcher and first baseman. Yeah. No, I wanna go through the outfit last because I’m still figuring that out. So I got the nailers and I intentionally went that way. And then I’ve got him and as a second, shortstop.
I guess, Rogiel. He’s hit a little better lately. That’s what we start getting at. Guy has a couple singles lately. You go, he hit a little better lately. He’s in. Then Jose. The DH is probably De La Santos.
David Campbell (21:57.41)
He’s in. Let’s start putting him in. Yep, that’s him in.
Terry Pluto (22:06.346)
And that brings us to the outfield. Well, you do have Stephen Quannant left. And I’m thinking, they want Florio to play, and at this point I want Florio to play, even though he hasn’t done much of anything.
David Campbell (22:18.894)
I think he’s batting what 167 this spring. Is that sound right?
Terry Pluto (22:21.55)
Which is up from last week. He was three for 30 when we were talking. So he’s up.
David Campbell (22:28.942)
Alright, so you would put him...
Terry Pluto (22:29.21)
I was talking to Tom Hamilton about him. He said that early in camp, for real was just sort of a basket case, swinging at everything and that. And he said, it’s one of those where you watch the guy and you realize if he were doing this all the time, he wouldn’t hit 200 and triple A. So in other words, he was fighting a lot because even up and down, up and down with the Yankees over the last few years, that also, here’s your big chance, you’re in there.
And you know, people react differently. And then in right field, you know, I guess you platoon, uh, Larianna and, um, Brennan. I mean, that’s what you got.
David Campbell (23:13.234)
And Miles Straw is the odd man out here, right?
Terry Pluto (23:14.946)
Easy. Yeah, I man out or he could play some and they say you know one outfielder. You got one you got quine He could juggle the rest. All right. I never thought I’d do this But I’m gonna quote Eric wedge on something that actually besides some awful cliche that he would give Is one day Eric and I were sitting in the never thought be Eric wedge story time But one day we were just like it I forgot how
David Campbell (23:40.777)
We can make a segment if you want. Make a segment out of this.
Terry Pluto (23:42.086)
How I ended, you know, the Eric Wedge, this’ll be the first and last of Eric Wedge story hour. Yeah. I forgot why I ended up in his office with him afterwards. And we were just talking. And at that point, Casey Blake was trying to like get going. He barely made the team. He had a bad spring or something. And I said, what do you think of Blake? He says, if Casey could just get through the first seven or eight weeks, I think you’ll play in the big leagues for a long time.
David Campbell (23:46.44)
Storytime with Eric Wedge.
Terry Pluto (24:12.574)
And I asked him why he said, because he’s been up and down with teams and that. And he goes that wears on guys. He said that you just have to decide, which we’ve decided here. We’re just going to give them a shot and see how it goes. And he turned out to be right. And if you think about that, when guys are in the middle twenties, I think, like for example, four years, 26, um, the, you could say you shouldn’t be so nervous or this or that.
You get told you’ve been in effect fired, or at least demoted enough times, you need some success. And the old thing, well you just need to have confidence, because what kind of confidence, you know, success breeds confidence, all that. But he had turned out to be right about Blake, because at that point nobody knew. I think they had gotten him from the Dodgers or somewhere, wherever they got him from. And you know, and he had a nice career.
David Campbell (25:07.114)
And so that’s what you’re talking about with Florial is just that he hasn’t had success where he feels like he belongs. And it’s going to be hard to do that in Cleveland and Oakland, like in April. You know, so it’s going to be tough.
Terry Pluto (25:09.084)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (25:18.57)
Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s why you said if you’d ride out the first four to six weeks and get through it He might start to be able to play now will for he’ll do that no, but that is the Theory behind you open with him you play him de los santos The theory behind is simply we don’t want to get back to arizona That would be what cleveland would say and he’s starting to get a few hits down there Yeah, he’s 20 and you went
David Campbell (25:44.146)
And so young too.
Terry Pluto (25:48.102)
to hold trouble of drafting. I mean, you think he’s got power. So I think that way if you get him through this year, then you don’t have to offer him back. Next year you could even send the AAA if you want. So that’s, I mean, we have to kind of look at the year as this is what they’re dealing with. And then I wrote about this before the second wave of bullpen injury showed up, which is the bullpen scares me to death. I mean, they already put too much
emphasis on class A last year and now. All right. What is it? The Stefan is out with Tommy John.
David Campbell (26:27.242)
Yeah, I think I can run through the list real quick, Terry. It’s Stephan, Tommy John surgery, he’s off for the season. Karen Shack is gonna open on the injured list. Sore right shoulder.
Terry Pluto (26:28.989)
Police.
Terry Pluto (26:35.322)
Whatever’s going on with him. Oh yeah. This guy, he shows up with a sore right shoulder.
David Campbell (26:42.102)
Henchis is going to be out with, I believe it’s the middle finger on his pitching hand he’s having issues with. Yeah, and of course Daniel Espino, he’s going to be out on right shoulder capsule.
Terry Pluto (26:47.134)
It scares me to death, by the way.
Terry Pluto (26:55.27)
All right, this is not personal, okay, but I say this, but I don’t really want to hear the names, Espino and Valero in any depth, until they’re actually played about a month. I’m very serious. Because, now here’s why. I mean, you know, there was an old, it’s like Waiting for Godot by Samuel Beckett. You never thought we’d have a, you know, a French existentialist playwright come into this, but if you could talk about it.
David Campbell (27:03.434)
until they’re back. All right.
David Campbell (27:08.002)
All right, we’ll strike them from the show.
David Campbell (27:22.911)
It pairs with Eric Wedgeter’s story time, yeah.
Terry Pluto (27:24.342)
Eric wish story time. Yeah. Because, you know, there are there’s two guys that are waiting for this guy, Goudel, whenever shows up and, you know, waiting for Valero and waiting for, um, Espino and you’re all you’re wondering, what are you actually waiting for? What, what have they really shown you over any extended period of time, as in like a whole full season? You haven’t seen much. So they’re the scouts love them. So are the rating systems, but, um,
David Campbell (27:37.058)
Spino.
Terry Pluto (27:54.426)
Let’s not worry about them. So therefore, you’re looking at Hunter Gaddis pictured in the seventh or eighth inning, Tim Herron, Eli Morgan, who I don’t like very much, Nick Sandlin, who Sandlin like, just when you think he’s getting it, he goes in the game and walks the bases loaded. But it seems like his ERA is always pretty good, but I think he gives up a lot of other people’s runs. But that second part I’ve never really looked at.
But the bullpen, this is a nightmare for a rookie manager is a bad bullpen.
David Campbell (28:31.306)
And the other thing I think I can mention that Gavin Williams is going to be on the injured list to start the season two with the right elbow. So like, like you said, Terry, not only is the bullpen injured, but they’re probably going to have to be coming in earlier because the starters or the starting rotation is not what it should be either. That’s going to tax them even more. So they’re going to have, they’re going to have a rough start to the season.
Terry Pluto (28:35.43)
Yes he is.
Terry Pluto (28:49.438)
I mean, Carlos Carrasco is going to be important whether he’s a fifth starter or he’s going to be a key part of the bullpen. I was talking to somebody with the Guardians there and they said he’s throwing okay, you know, not great. But this is, you know, the old line where you want to go back to the legendary Cleveland talk show host Pete Franklin or Terry Francona. In fact, Francona’s line was more succinct than Franklin.
Francona’s line always goes, when you think you have enough bitch and go get one or two more.
David Campbell (29:21.782)
Well, some good news, Terry. Shane Bieber looks amazing. His fastball is two or three miles an hour faster. It’s got good movement, and he has been named the opening night starter for the Guardians against Oakland. So that just came out.
Terry Pluto (29:24.815)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (29:29.475)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (29:33.19)
And so far, I’m also afraid to mention this because it’s the old, you don’t want to jinx them, but McKenzie is throwing well. So that’s been, because at this point already, McKenzie was hurt last spring because I remember I was down there in the middle of spring training and he was supposed to like start the next day or something, they walk in, well, Tristan’s got a little bit of a problem, a little bit of a problem, ended up pitching 12 innings all year or whatever it was. So.
David Campbell (30:03.766)
All right, so the guardians are getting close to wrapping up spring training. And like we said, they open at Oakland on the 28th and the home opener. Most of you probably know already is going to be April 8th, the day of the eclipse in Cleveland, full totality in Cleveland. And that pretty much guarantees it’s going to be 52 and cloudy all day. Right? So, all right, let’s, let’s take a break. When we come back, I want to ask Terry why he feels better about Jamis Winston this week than he did last week when we were on the podcast. So we’ll get into that. and some good foul ball stories when we return on Terry’s Talkin.
David Campbell (31:41.302)
Hey, we’re back on Terry’s talking with David Campbell and Terry Pluto. Hey Terry, we were talking a lot about James Winston last week and you’ve been writing the last few days, you kind of did some reporting and looking around, seeing what was going on with James Winston and you’ve been writing that you feel better about the signing than you did a week ago. Why don’t you spend a few minutes talking about that?
Terry Pluto (32:01.63)
Well, I mean, I probably were like a number of Browns fans here, James Winston and fair or not, I flashed back to all the off field problems he had. Uh, going back at Florida state and then later with the bucks, um, you know, he had been suspended for three games for conduct with, um, uh, I think a female Uber driver, there was some other stuff when he was in college and that, um, so I’m like, oh, great.
But I did notice this kind of cursory thing that the last time there was any sort of suspension or anything was 2018. You know, he signed with New Orleans in 20. And I had this reader from New Orleans send me the front page of the New Orleans Picayune, a picture of like him waving goodbye. You would have sworn Bernie Cozart was leaving town down there.
And there are these stories on what a great community guy he was active in churches and with young men’s groups. And he was the guy that the team was sending out to talk to people and those teammates loved him. And so that was great to see because they need stability as they always talk about the room. They need stability in that quarterback room because of Deshaun Watson.
You know, he’s had a suspension, he’s had injuries, he’s in and out. I mean, that’s what, see, that’s what Flacco brought. Now I think Flacco, I don’t think Winston can repeat Flacco thrown for 300 yards a game. The Browns are counting on Winston to be the guy that opened 2021 as a starter for the Saints. He was five and two and seven starts, 14 TDs, three interceptions. He cut out all those interceptions. I mean, the one year.
He let I think he went the NFL both in touchdown passes and interceptions. Yeah yeah, it was there was it was 33 and 30 and I Think beards passing and so That’s not what you want For your backup. I mean that isn’t part of the reason the Browns backed off a flat go because the interceptions bothered them So so he did not show up, but then it and the seven games in he blows his knee and he has the ACL
David Campbell (33:57.162)
Yeah, I think it was 30 for 30.
Terry Pluto (34:22.374)
Then he opens in 2020 as a starter, plays a couple of games. He has a foot and a back injury. He’s out a while and he Dalton takes over and he’s a starter. And then the following year they signed Derek Carr. So basically Winston played 10 games and.
New Orleans, the stats are such a small sample size, it’s hard to know. But the reason I feel better is not just that he hasn’t been in any trouble, there are very clear indications that he’s changed his life around and become a big asset. Now anybody who’s, I mean, all of us, every day is a test. The old thing, we live it one day at a time. It’s a great model from AA or Celebrate Recovery, whichever one you like, about how we are to
And guys that have had some problems in the past is even a little tougher. But I mean, Winston now has got some pretty good road behind them of six years. So that makes me feel better about him. I don’t think we’re going to know really what kind of player he is until he plays a quite a bit in the preseason. I think he only threw like 47 passes all of last year. He didn’t start a game. So it’s just, it’s difficult to know.
Now that said, what do you think Tyra Huntley was about David Campbell?
David Campbell (35:41.622)
Uh, well, my raw reaction is that the Browns just went through a season where they were leaning on a fifth round rookie and a guy who didn’t really belong in the NFL and PJ Walker in my opinion. And they want to make sure that never ever happens again. And so they have brought in Tyler Huntley because again, like you’re talking about with Winston, he’s got good experience, he’s proven he can win games in the NFL and he’s not going to be thrown into anything for the first time because he’s seen it all.
Terry Pluto (35:56.398)
Yes!
David Campbell (36:11.074)
Uh, and he’s, he knows the, he knows the AFC North. I mean, they want to make sure that last year never happens again. That’s where I was at with that.
Terry Pluto (36:18.826)
Absolutely. And I, I noticed more teams going that direction. That’s why Pittsburgh did what they did with Russell Wilson and trading for fields. It was like the Browns are sitting there going, I don’t know why Tyler Huntley doesn’t have more than a veteran minimum contract offer with some incentives. We’ll just juice up our incentives and go get them. And Pittsburgh is sitting there going, what for fields? What do we have to lose? Bring them in here. Now, why didn’t the Browns go get fields?
Um, I was told they’re not real high on them. So I think they want more of a, you know, they wanted more of a Winston type guy behind there there. And that’s, that’s what I heard. Not, we’ll see if that’s correct or not. And maybe that information was wrong, but I was doing about a week before Pittsburgh got him, I was kind of pushing my brown sources or whatever. And in my sense was they just kind of thought he was sort of okay. And that was it. Um, so there you go.
David Campbell (37:18.946)
Yeah. And the other thing I want to mention, Terry, is with, with the Sean Watson coming back from the shoulder, they’re going to be going through mini camp OTAs training camp, there’s a lot of footballs that need to be thrown to a lot of receivers and running backs. And you want to ease that load onto Sean Watson and let him come in. So now if you have Winston, Huntley, DTR, and then you’ve signed some undrafted free agent from Emporia state and bring him in and let him throw 500 passes.
Terry Pluto (37:23.943)
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (37:48.502)
during training camp, you’d be able to keep some of that load off of Deshaun Watson. I know that’s the number one thing is not rushing him back to back too fast, but you want these guys have to catch balls and get their timing down. So you need to have somebody throwing them. So.
Terry Pluto (37:55.295)
And Winston.
Terry Pluto (37:59.886)
And also think about what I said about Winston 2021 ACL knee injury, 2022, uh, a back and a foot thing. So he’s got a little bit of an injury history. You know, the whole league at quarterbacks just about have a little, has somewhat of an, I’m, I’ve, I’ve now turned into, I used to say cornerbacks in the NFL were like pitchers can never have enough, you know, just now I’m almost like quarterbacks are, uh, just
If I could get, if I could have four and I have three who have started a fair amount of NFL games, um, I think, I think Huntley started nine or 10. I forgot what it was. And point and some others. I can live with that and feel better than as you mentioned, Hey, by the way, is Joshua Dobbs signed anywhere?
David Campbell (38:51.682)
He did, yeah. Oh my gosh. Mary Kay just had it today. I can’t remember what team it was with, but it was, the way she wrote it was that he’s still processing being let go from the Browns. He was very upset that happened and that was a little bit of why he didn’t come back. Also the money. But yeah, sorry, I can’t remember where he signed.
Terry Pluto (38:54.54)
Yeah, we can find them. Are there any?
Terry Pluto (39:11.498)
Yeah, I mean, if I, you know, if I were him, I would not have come back. Would you?
David Campbell (39:22.062)
Probably not, especially not with this group. I mean.
Terry Pluto (39:23.138)
No, if I have a choice. No, I’ve been there twice. Not once, but not just been there, done that. But been there, done that twice. Niner signing Josh Jobs to one year deal. There you go. So good for him. But Josh Jobs, Tyler Huntley, either way, I’m good. I like it. They could put them in. So.
David Campbell (39:34.902)
Thank you. There we go. Well, if there’s anything.
Terry Pluto (39:51.83)
We’re gonna be this whole Winston excuse me this whole Watson arm thing is just hanging over them until because you probably won’t play much in the free season if at all and Then we’ll have to see the regular season But at least we get a chance to look at these other quarterbacks and I think more than ever they will be getting them Ready to play
David Campbell (40:12.982)
Yeah, Mary Kay reported today that the Sean is actually starting to throw a little bit today, this very day. So, and, uh, yeah, before we move on to the next thing, Terry, I did want to mention, if we learn anything from the Tyler Huntley signing, it’s that the Pro Bowl does not matter because Tyler Huntley is a Pro Bowler. They had nobody else and he basically played four games in the 2022 season. I made the Pro Bowl because everybody else was either hurt or in the Super Bowl. There you go. So Pro Bowler has lost a lot of its luster. Uh, and I think.
Terry Pluto (40:17.251)
Okay.
Terry Pluto (40:26.368)
Yeah, how the heck was he on the Pro Bowl? What did that have to do with that?
Terry Pluto (40:42.004)
Yeah.
David Campbell (40:42.606)
Tyler Huntley was part of that movement.
Terry Pluto (40:44.378)
Yeah, he was there and then nobody wanted him this off season. So.
David Campbell (40:48.838)
Alright, I want to get real quick to this letter from long time listener, John Sibison. We’ve been talking a little bit about motion and pre snap motion and how the Browns were thirty first in the league and John says, hey Dave, you made a great observation in the most recent podcast or a recent podcast now, I guess because I’ve held this for a couple of weeks about San Francisco and Kansas City being among the leaders and sending players in motion. Since the team is allowed to send one player in motion, I’ve often wondered why the Browns wouldn’t have a player in motion on each and every offensive play.
Terry Pluto (40:56.003)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (41:16.106)
Apart from putting added pressure on the defensive player, in motion obviously has a momentum advantage in building up speed over the other offensive players that have to be set. So why not utilize this advantage for one player on each and every play? And John also says, I need to give a shout out to KF’s play-by-play announcer, John Michael. Of course we all loved Fred, but John does a stellar job in describing the game and keeping the audience informed in such a smooth and enforced manner. Cleveland fans have been so blessed with so many great play-by-play announcers in all three sports. Absolutely John, so.
Um, so Kevin Stefanski was asked about this a few weeks ago about the Browns being 31st in motion. And he said, uh, yeah, I hesitate to look in, in too much last year in that regard. I think motion, speaking of conflict, I think it can make life really hard on the defense. I speak from experience when that picture is changing pre-play, it can make it really a challenge. You can put your receivers in advantageous positions via motion. I think what coach Mike McDaniel did in Miami was
really those were new things that are now you’re going to see that throughout the league. But I think there’s certainly elements to it. I think we talk about what we talk about a lot is you want to shift in motion with a purpose. You don’t want to do it just to do it, but there are opportunities to create advantageous looks and you certainly want to do it. So I’m reading between the lines there Terry and with
The changes the Browns are making, I think we’re going to see a lot more of this motion. And I do think what the Dolphins did with McDaniel last year, I think a lot of teams are going to be stealing that and getting back to John’s original point. I think there’s plays where you, you can gain an advantage by formation, right? By overloading one side or creating a matchup. And then you can create a mismatch with motion. And I think the Browns are going to be doing more of it. I’m just reading between the lines of what Stefanski said. And I think they’re scheming up ways to do that.
Terry Pluto (43:02.046)
Well, if you were 31st, that doesn’t take a lot to do more. I don’t mean to be, but I think you’re right there. Secondly though, when you are in motion a lot, you have to be disciplined because here come the pre-SNAP penalties, illegal formations, illegal motion, whatever you wanna call it or both. And remember that’s a pre-SNAP penalties. I’m at war with those.
David Campbell (43:07.21)
No, that’s true.
Terry Pluto (43:32.054)
That was my Belichick, Eric Mangini influence on me. So that is something that I want to make sure if they’re doing it, as he said, you’re doing it for a purpose. It also is just that your team is disciplined enough to do that. Now, one of the advantages to having, I think, a quarterback who plays under center more, which is not Sean Watson, but it is, for example, the 49ers, is it makes it easier.
to run a lot of that motion. Now, I do believe too, is in a shotgun a lot. So they found a way in Miami to do that.
David Campbell (44:10.59)
Yeah. And you know, we know Kevin Stefanski from having listened to him all these years, Terry, when he gives an answer like that, there’s something to it most times. And so I think that’s going to be something I think fans should track is like watching in the preseason, they’re probably going to be pretty vanilla. You might not see a ton of it, but then like in week one, whether it’s in Brazil or elsewhere, like what does it look like and how is it going to evolve as the season goes along? That’ll be a story. Uh-oh, let’s hear it.
Terry Pluto (44:16.737)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (44:28.204)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (44:32.202)
I have an assignment for you. Speaking of motion, next week find out the last previous two years, where did Buffalo rank in motion? With Ken Dorsey.
David Campbell (44:45.622)
Alright.
Okay.
That’s a good one. I will check it out and we’ll have that for next week.
Terry Pluto (44:52.29)
Yeah, that was, I was just thinking about that. And then.
Terry Pluto (44:59.958)
I’m not good at this football stuff. I was like, you know, the NBA, I’ll, I’ll try to break it down and probably know just enough to get it all wrong, but feel comfortable enough to take the chance. Football. I don’t. Um, how does motion relate to teams in the shotgun?
David Campbell (45:18.846)
Alright, let me see what I can find on that for next week.
Terry Pluto (45:22.704)
Yeah, I mean, Miami did some really creative stuff. So.
David Campbell (45:28.534)
Yeah, when you get other coaches talking about what you’re doing, it’s not just Kevin’s fancy, but a lot of people are looking at this and saying, wow, this is like, this is new stuff that we need.
Terry Pluto (45:32.184)
No.
Terry Pluto (45:35.538)
Here’s something I want to bring up because I haven’t given it much thought but I’ve had one or two readers mention it to me Kevin Stefanski getting a B minus in that player poll. Didn’t that put him like in the bottom 25% or something?
David Campbell (45:50.462)
I think so. I don’t remember where he fit, but that, yeah, that surprised you.
Terry Pluto (45:53.474)
I’ll look it up while you’re, you know. I have, I don’t have any thoughts. Do you have any thoughts on Kevin getting a B minus? Obviously these teams are grading on a high curve here.
David Campbell (46:04.37)
I’d like to see more than one year of it. I mean, Chris Jones gave the chiefs as an organization an F and then they gave him the big catch right. And he gave him an A. He changed his vote in like two weeks. So like, you don’t know what’s motivating players and, and guys who leave, like when was the vote taken? So I don’t know.
Terry Pluto (46:11.259)
Yeah.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (46:24.198)
But no, this is more of just the coaches ranking as opposed to the whole sales, the whole.
David Campbell (46:29.502)
Yeah, but no, I mean the same thing applies though. Like somebody who left here, like if Josh Dobbs was asked to vote before the season, like what would he have put for Kevin Stefanski after they let him go? I don’t know. Yeah.
Terry Pluto (46:35.962)
Yeah. All right, here we go. Nine coaches got an A, seven got an A minus. So 16 out of 32 were A minus or above. And all right, where do you think? Well, this is interesting. Where do you think Kevin Stefanski ranked out of the 32?
David Campbell (46:59.338)
18? 20? Oh, really?
Terry Pluto (47:00.678)
27. Who do you think was last? And we’ve mentioned his name on this podcast.
Terry Pluto (47:09.994)
Oh, I’m sorry, no, I withdraw that. Is Josh McDaniels. Yeah. No, no, I was thinking of McDaniel. I was going Mike McDaniel, who was fourth. Yeah. Because that was going, that made no sense. And then I just realized, because they just had the last names. So, yeah, I’m looking. It’s like Andy Reid was one, O’Connell two, Dan Campbell three. That’s interesting, Campbell, you know, yelling at everybody.
David Campbell (47:14.422)
That was who I was going to say, but we haven’t talked about it.
David Campbell (47:21.162)
Yeah, yeah, so Josh McDonough with the Raiders like.
David Campbell (47:28.972)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (47:38.142)
Tom 111, Zach Taylor 12. Sean Payton was 16. So basically, everybody remember, everybody 16 and above is an A minus. And Mike Vrabel, 22. The bottom five were Stefanski, Todd Bowles, I thought he did a pretty good job. Bill Belichick, no surprise. Arthur Smith fired, Rivera fired, McDaniels fired. So.
Robert Saywell 24. Okay, I have nothing else to say on that. Oh, gotten hardball was like 21, by the way.
David Campbell (48:10.162)
interesting. I do remember Sapansky...
Wow, really?
Terry Pluto (48:15.95)
All right, here’s my theory. You know what I think about that? The coach’s report card is his record.
David Campbell (48:23.874)
probably make a direct correlation there. But I.
Terry Pluto (48:25.69)
No, no, it isn’t. I’m just saying they could, you said there’s so many subjective things that could go into it.
David Campbell (48:34.582)
You’re saying, look at the record and that tells you what you need to know because the players are playing for you.
Terry Pluto (48:36.366)
Yeah, that’s the old, you are what your record is, and in the end you are judged by your record. Maybe not just for one year, but over a couple of years. I mean, in the end, we’re talking with Stefanski, he has been the best coach since they came back in 99, and I would say the best coach since Marty. So you have to go back to the late 80s. And then also, he’s taken them to the playoffs twice. And he did.
Both of them actually under tough circumstances. One was his rookie year with COVID, where he got Baker straightened out. And then last year with all the quarterbacks and everything else. So in a league where half of them are A minus or above to give this guy a B minus just seems odd to me.
David Campbell (49:21.798)
I do remember Terry, I think he was asked about this within the last couple of months at some press conference and he didn’t like that he got graded that low and he said he really wanted to spend this offseason checking it out. I do remember something like that he was asked. Yeah, yeah.
Terry Pluto (49:34.878)
Yeah, I thought that was a good answer as opposed to like, it’s a stupid poll and why, even if you think it’s a stupid poll and why do we care?
David Campbell (49:45.47)
All right. Hey, let’s move on here. Terry, you wrote a lovely Faith in You column over the weekend. And it was kind of flashing back to a time when you were teaching as a younger Terry Pluto in a Cleveland school. And you wrote about the girl in red and American pie and how it was kind of these things that had stuck in your head about a person who moved in and out of your life so quickly. Why don’t you talk about that column? I know you got a lot of response to this one.
Terry Pluto (50:10.498)
Yeah, I was tutoring at John Raper Elementary, which was on 88th and Huff. It was the early 70s. And I was trying to teach kids math, primarily multiplication tables, because if you can’t get that, you’re not going to get division and you’re not going to get fraction. The thing about at Huff back then was, I mean, it was a really rough neighborhood. Was it not that far out of...
the huff rise, but it wasn’t like extremely dangerous. It’s nothing compared to what we have now. But there was one of my favorite student, I wish I could remember her name, I just can’t, was a girl in red. She always was dressed very nicely in these red dresses, like bright outfits, but usually red with her hair in braids and with ribbons in her hair. And she tried so hard and now she had moved, she had moved from school to school. There was some family problems.
And then one day I showed up and now here’s a tough thing. When you’re writing about something from almost 50 years ago, your memory, how much is memory and how much is, I was at John Murray Elementary. I did tutor math. I did one of the stories I mentioned in there was I was tutoring another guy. I remember his name was Clarence and they threw a brick that hit our window. It just shattered it, but it didn’t break it. It was there. And.
Clarence went to the window and looked at it and said, oh, they used to go here, they bad. I go, you got that right Clarence, I just got them away from the window. I remember that distinctly, but conversations and things, it’s always sort of unclear. It’s kind of like you get the outline of the mountains and then you try to color in the lake, you try to color in exactly what it was. So how much of the small details, that story is like what I wanted to be or whatever, is real.
I mean, you talk to police who interrogate people right after something happened. He was about 5′11″. No, he was, I think he was, you know, he was wearing brown. No, no, he had a blue dress. What do you mean he had a blue dress? Well, no, not he had the blue dress, the girl next door had the blue, you know. So, right, but the heart of the story was a young man, me, tutoring there, to this day remembering this from almost 50 years ago when I would see a little...
David Campbell (52:20.066)
Your mind fills in the details. Yeah, yeah.
Terry Pluto (52:33.518)
a girl, African American girl in a red dress, which I had just seen recently somewhere. I just think about her. And I remember, at least in my memory, one day she said something like, do you live in a nice house? And I said, at that point, actually we did. We were living in Northfield. And I said, yeah. And I started to ask her and I thought, I’m not going to do that because I think there’s something behind the question.
And we just went back to the multiplication tables and kind of comments with how the teacher told me they had kind of taken her out and we weren’t going to see her anymore. And that was a trouble at home. And just kind of once in a while wondering what happened. I got a lot of emails, I mean, four or five in this regard, simply from people who had tutored, one even tutored at the same school, but other schools have very similar memories from years and years ago of wondering whatever happened to that kid.
David Campbell (53:32.114)
And it’s a frozen moment in time. And you think like, what, what happened to that person? And they kind of drop into your life and then swoop out and it, yeah.
Terry Pluto (53:34.278)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (53:39.338)
And you just comes back and just her joy of seeing me and trying to work through that stuff and it’s one of those things you just know had this girl been in a stable home, she could have knocked the ball out of the park. I mean you could just tell. But that wasn’t what she was facing.
David Campbell (54:04.154)
Well, let’s hope it turned out right. I know you got a few letters where people were saying, I hope she ended up in a nice house, which I thought was a lovely sentiment. So, all right, Terry, I do want to mention real quick, I want to give a quick mention of our Dine Drink Klee podcast. It’s produced in our newsroom. And if you’re interested in food, Cleveland’s a great food town, check it out. Mark Bona, Paris Wolf, Pete Chakarian go on there and they join hosts, Josh Duke and Alex Daris. They have all kinds of great discussions, not just about like,
Terry Pluto (54:08.49)
Yeah, I do too. Yeah.
David Campbell (54:33.77)
high end restaurants, but everything from fast food to bar food to everything in between. So check it out. It’s called Dine Drink Klee and you can find it wherever you find podcasts. And that Terry will bring us to our letter portion of the show. We still have some, why I’m a Cleveland fan letter. So I want to read one of those from Rudy W. And then we have two foul ball stories. Last week, you and I were kind of getting the foul balls that we’ve caught.
Terry Pluto (54:47.663)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (54:51.602)
Okay.
David Campbell (54:59.734)
You told a story about the one you caught and I mentioned mine and you said, Hey, we should hear from fans. And we actually got a few in. If you want to hit us with letters about your foul ball stories or anything else, just a quick reminder, you can talk to, you can email us at sports at cleveland.com and we will not talk to you, but we will try and get your letter on the podcast. So this is from Rudy W Terry. Here we go. Um, he says, I left for college in Montana at age 18 and never moved back to Ohio. My dad and I always had the Indians games on the radio when I was growing up in North Kingsville.
bought our first TV in 1954 so we could see the World Series. I listened to Ohio State on the car radio because it would pick up the Columbus station to catch Howard Hopalong Cassidy and Woody Hayes doing their thing. Even when I lived in Colorado, I’d drive the family to catch the Browns games in Kansas or Texas. I once drove to El Paso when a closer hotel didn’t air the game. I subscribed to the plane dealer to keep up over the years. I know. No.
Terry Pluto (55:55.121)
Montana to El Paso. Why don’t you just drive to Cleveland?
David Campbell (56:00.19)
closer. Yeah. Uh he says I went to sports bars. They had Sedlight coverage. I finally bought a pricey Sedlight dish to catch the games. Why not follow the local team? It’s about loyalty, memories, and that constant thread in life that doesn’t change. We might not have the best team but we are the best fans. Everywhere I’ve lived and now here in Phoenix, us Ohio guys will always remember the World Championships of 48, 64, 2002, 2014, and 2016. So, thanks for
Terry Pluto (56:11.745)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (56:30.318)
Some good stories there. He put some miles on the car, didn’t he? Chasing down some games. Alright, here’s a foul ball story. And this one comes to us from David Tuckie and he lives in Columbus. And David says, Hey Terry and David, in my 55 plus years of going to MLB games, I probably recovered about six to eight balls during an actual game. Never cut any on the fly. This includes one home run ball and even once a ball that was overthrown during between any outfield warmups.
Terry Pluto (56:32.951)
Yes.
Terry Pluto (56:57.874)
That counts. Yeah, I’ve gotten a few where I was sitting down the foul line back when the bullpens at the old stadium were there and, um, they would, the guys warming up and we kind of learned to pay attention because he bounced some ball in the dirt and it would bounce off the catcher’s glove and pop in the stand. So there you go. In fact, if you wanted that, we discovered if you wanted to catch balls, if you got there early before the game, like when the guy’s warming up.
David Campbell (56:58.983)
It does, yeah.
David Campbell (57:18.58)
Yeah, even with...
Terry Pluto (57:25.874)
Remember the big stadium, go stand wherever you want, especially down in the foul line. Go there, stand by and kind of sit in the stands behind the catcher. You maybe get a shot one out of three times, you get one.
David Campbell (57:35.594)
Yeah, and there’s probably hundreds of fans who have Trevor Bauer balls from when he used to warm up before the games, right? Those cross outfield throws. Ha ha ha. All right, let’s continue here with David continues on. He says, two foul balls do stand out to me. My first in 1972 at the age of 10. We always recall that first one. Mine was hit by Indian second baseman, Eddie Leon. Is that how you say his name? Leon, Eddie Leon, okay.
Terry Pluto (57:40.802)
Oh Lord. Who got that ball in Kansas City? Oh no, I forgot it landed in the Missouri River or whatever went through there.
Terry Pluto (58:01.888)
Daddy Leon.
David Campbell (58:04.626)
and pitched by Yankee Steve Klein. I got both of them to autograph the ball. Leon that season and Klein after he was traded to the Indians a year or two later, I told Eddie that he had hit the ball. He asked me where and I pointed to seats to the first base side of home plate. I recall my dad saying that if I had pointed over the outfield wall that Mr. Leon might have traded me a bat and a tour of the dugout for that ball.
Terry Pluto (58:09.143)
Hahaha!
Terry Pluto (58:26.805)
Yeah.
David Campbell (58:29.706)
My other noteworthy foul ball was 14 years later on August 1st, 1986. I was coming up from Columbus with my girlfriend to visit my parents in Parma and see the Indians play the Yankees. The Tribe was 53 and 47 on August 1st, six games behind Boston and only a game behind the Yankees. This was rare to have meaningful games in August. We drove up on a Friday evening and we’re listening to the Twiney doubleheader on 3WE. A crowd of 64,934 showed up that Friday night. We decided to drive straight downtown.
Terry Pluto (58:48.175)
Yeah.
David Campbell (58:59.562)
and buy our tickets for Saturday’s game. No pulling the phone out or clicking a mouse. Ticket office, person to person, and cash with paper tickets. After buying our tickets for Saturday, we walked inside the stadium to catch the ninth inning of Friday evening’s second game. As the gates were wide open to accommodate those leaving, we found two empty seats on the first base side near the dugout. It couldn’t have been more than a couple of pitches and that foul ball was coming our way. It deflected off a few hands and I snatched it from the ground. There were 64,934 people and it found me.
and my only half ending there, what are the odds? And he says, love the podcast, keep doing what you’re doing. So thanks for that, David.
Terry Pluto (59:30.302)
Wow.
Terry Pluto (59:35.218)
That must have been fireworks night or something. They had to be giving something away back then.
David Campbell (59:41.598)
It’s so wild, Terry. Like I used to drive to Cleveland to visit relatives when I was a kid. My, my dad would drive down the shoreway and they were playing the Yankees one fourth of July weekend and there were 70,000 people in the ballpark, like they would draw 60 or 70,000 for the Yankees every game, right. And then 10, the rest of the season.
Terry Pluto (59:45.719)
Mm-hmm.
Terry Pluto (59:53.277)
Yeah.
Terry Pluto (59:58.622)
Yeah, during the 10, 8, the big thing, they had different giveaways, you know, bat day, ball day. The playing dealer used to have like a couple things per year called grandstand managers night of started by hell level. What’s and he put he would put a question out there like, you know, should, well, it would be like she chased a lot or make the team this year.
You know, that kind of, and then people come in and they had a way of giving it like, like half price tickets or tickets for a dollar if you entered, or I don’t know quite how they did it, but there was a straight A students night, the old Cleveland press, so they found different things like that. Um, they also did mother’s day one time where one of the gifts given the mothers going through the gate and not making it up was deodorant. What a way to show mom you care.
David Campbell (01:00:54.738)
Oh boy.
Terry Pluto (01:00:55.398)
You know, they would buy stuff from Big Lots or whatever and just gotta give it away. So that was that. What else do we have?
David Campbell (01:00:59.55)
Oh man.
David Campbell (01:01:03.598)
Those are the days. All right, this is from Michael Karp, and he’s from Mary Etta, Georgia. And Michael says, in 1982, I was visiting Cleveland and went to a ball game at the old stadium with my friend Chuck. We were seated in the upper deck behind home plate. Midway through the game, Chuck took a break to go look for All-Star game ballots. Needless to say, the stadium was mostly empty, so I took advantage by hooking my legs over the empty seat in the row in front. I think Sandy Whittle, W-I-H-T-O-L, Whittle, or Ed Whitson was pitching when Rick Dempsey.
Terry Pluto (01:01:27.55)
Send it, whaddle, whaddle.
I covered those guys. I was on the beat back then. That was my oh gee. Yeah, I guess my old team the Orioles because I cover the Orioles in 79. Then I came to the point you were in 80 through 84. The quote Sandy Whittle at Watson era. I believe that probably was like 81.
David Campbell (01:01:34.679)
This is your team, Rick Dempsey of the Orioles. Hit a foul ball.
David Campbell (01:01:51.638)
You probably knew all 50 guys on both rosters that day, Terry, having covered.
Terry Pluto (01:01:54.938)
Well, actually, I pretty close. Yeah. And Earl Weaver would be asking me, why did you leave us for that? Are you out of your bleeping mind? Well, Earl, it’s home. Yeah. Okay. Fine kid. Yeah, we can have a real Weaver story. I have learned to clean them up over the years. So
David Campbell (01:02:02.756)
Hahaha
David Campbell (01:02:11.557)
Click, we should have Earl Weaver story hour instead of...
David Campbell (01:02:19.886)
Alright, Michael says, I think Sandy Whittle or Ed Whitson was pitching when Rick Dempsey of the Orioles hit a foul ball heading my way. I immediately tried to stand up to make a catch, forgetting that my legs were not on the cement. That didn’t work, but luck was on my side that day and the foul pop-up literally came down right to me, caught it on the fly, and Chuck wasn’t there to witness it. Some fans in the nearby section even cheered, I still have the baseball, the only foul ball I have caught to this day.
Terry Pluto (01:02:30.552)
Oh boy.
David Campbell (01:02:45.478)
And that’s from Michael Karp and Marietta. So thanks for that, Michael. So there we go. We got a couple of good foul balls stories there, Terry, because of your suggestion. So.
Terry Pluto (01:02:52.642)
When and probably they were true because when you roll in Sandy Whittle and Eddie Leone, the odds are those were true stories.
David Campbell (01:03:07.35)
Alright, Terry, it’s time for your Book of the Week and I know you want to talk about this book called Saving Grayson by Chris Fabry. So is it Fabry? Okay, F-A-B-R-Y if you’re looking at them.
Terry Pluto (01:03:14.406)
Fabry, yeah, Fabry, yeah. Yeah, Fabry for quite a while actually wrote some sports books like Ghost Writing for Earl Hershizer and some others. He’s primarily a Christian writer, but don’t get all, you know.
Terry Pluto (01:03:35.478)
Freaked out by that in the same way like some people write a lot about the Jewish experience in New York or whatever This is a I’m halfway through it it’s a powerful book about a guy dealing with Alzheimer’s and his family and he was a writer at one time and you know, it kind of time slipping away and maybe because You know as I’ve gotten older and especially all the time I spent nursing house with my mom Melva You know, I know she’s not in the Alzheimer’s ward, but you see that
And you just realize that boy, oh boy, you know, what a thing it is. And I just, it’s sad, but it’s powerful because the story, it’s people. Fabry has written a lot of good books, F-A-B-R-Y. Look it up online and just kind of see. A lot of them he sets in West Virginia where he grew up. So that’s my novel of the week.
David Campbell (01:04:26.594)
All right, I have a book, Terry, surprisingly. All right, there’s this guy named Rick Rubin, who is a very well-known music producer. He actually was heavily involved with Johnny Cash toward the end of Johnny Cash’s life and helping put out some really, some Grammy award-winning work toward the end, but he’s got a new book out. I don’t know if it’s new, but it’s new to me. And I started reading, it’s called The Creative Act, A Way of Being. It’s all about creativity and letting the universe hit you in creative ways. And it’s beautifully written. It’s very...
Terry Pluto (01:04:28.155)
Please.
Terry Pluto (01:04:32.005)
Uh-huh.
David Campbell (01:04:54.102)
It reminds me a lot of you in terms of the writing style, Terry. It’s very, um, plain and powerful and easy to grasp. So check it out. It’s by Rick Rubin and it’s called the creative act, a way of being. So I think that’s it, right? All right.
Terry Pluto (01:05:02.718)
Great.
Terry Pluto (01:05:08.326)
That’ll do it. Well, of all the fall ball stories we’ve ever told, these are the most recent. Thank you, Les Levine.
David Campbell (01:05:14.87)
These were the most recent. There we go. Yes, indeed. We missed less. And hey, everybody, thanks for listening again. Check out Terry’s newsletter. You can sign up for it. It takes a minute. Cleveland.com slash newsletters. We appreciate you listening. We will be back next week for another edition of Eric Wedge Story Hour. Terry’s talking. We’ll see you next week.
Terry Pluto (01:05:21.348)
Yes.