CLEVELAND, Ohio - Welcome to this week’s episode of the Terry’s Talkin’ podcast with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. This was taped on Wednesday morning, after the Cavs lost Game 1 of their Eastern Conference semifinal series vs. the Celtics. We discuss the biggest challenge the Cavs face, and what they can do to adjust for Game 2.
We also dive into how the Guardians might handle young struggling catcher Bo Naylor; and what rookie Kyle Manzardo has been doing in his two games up in the Majors.
Also, we talk about the Browns picked and why they were so sold on Jerry Jeudy.
Stories by Terry Pluto
Terry has asked fans to send in stories of when and how they got a foul ball at a baseball game. We read a couple more of those. You can email your foul ball story, along with any other comments or questions you may have, to [email protected].
Want to keep up with everything Terry is writing? Be sure to sign up for his new, free weekly newsletter.
If the player below doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here.
A full transcript of the podcast is below. As it is computer-generated, it will contain many spelling and grammar errors.
You can find previous podcasts here:
David Campbell (00:02.574)
Hey everybody, welcome to this week’s Terry’s Talking Podcast. I’m David Campbell, your host, and I’m joined by Mr. Terry Pluto the morning after a Cavs playoff loss to the Celtics. Wednesday morning, Terry, how are you doing today?
terry (00:15.462)
Probably better than the calves are, that’s for sure.
They looked exhausted, overwhelmed, all that. I’m just like regular tired. So.
David Campbell (00:27.246)
Yeah, we didn’t have to fly to Boston on short notice and play a game.
terry (00:30.31)
No, no, so that was that and I mean they’re those guys they go they go they fly the right way and they’ve got that all taken care of between charters and buses I’m always a little bit amused on that, but I just think psychologically and emotionally they were set up for Taking a pounding and that game could have even been worse than the final score so
David Campbell (00:51.278)
Well, let’s get into that, Terry. And we also, big news with the Guardians this week, Kyle Manzardo, one of their top prospects has come up and has played two games already. We have a little bronze we can get into. We have a couple of good foul ball stories from your request a couple of months ago. Those keep rolling in and we’re going to do them in the order we’re getting them. But let’s delve into the Cavs last night. You know, it seems like the general consensus was like, what did you expect in game one? Right? Like that’s the way you felt too.
terry (01:00.056)
Mm -hmm.
terry (01:16.678)
Exactly. Yeah, I remember the calves being on the wrong side of this. It was in 2009 and LeBron’s second last year here, the tenure number one. It’s like LeBron is like some biblical figure. You’ll have to like go to the chapter, the verse, you know, the second book of LeBron versus the first book of LeBron. This is first book of LeBron chapter 2009, you know,
reverse game one, which was when the Celtics and Orlando had this rugged seven game series and Orlando prevailed. And then like basically a day and a half later, here they are playing in Cleveland and they came in and dumped the calves and just felt like for the rest of that series, the calves were chasing Orlando and never did catch them. Uh, that was when Dwight Howard just tore the calves up inside.
David Campbell (02:15.758)
Yeah, I mean...
terry (02:16.038)
To carry it farther, by the way, that series then, it’s story time, led to the Cavs after the 0 -9 loss in the playoffs to bring in Hume for the year 2010.
David Campbell (02:28.974)
Man, I don’t remember who.
terry (02:32.966)
Shaquille O ‘Neal.
David Campbell (02:36.814)
everybody was who was near the end.
terry (02:37.254)
Who came in? Yeah. I, I, I came in to bring a king, a ring to the king. He came in, he played like 45 games and, uh, but that was the classic. Well, we couldn’t stop Dwight Howard. They brought in O ‘Neal. I forgot whether they tried it for him or just signed him. It doesn’t matter. And, you know, he’s overweight and he’s hurt. And it was just a, it was a classic glass gas.
roll the dice. But that was why they did it and it just and then they’re following it.
David Campbell (03:11.15)
And Shaq, I think Shaq said recently that that’s one of the great regrets of his career that he couldn’t do more to help LeBron at that time. I think he was on a podcast recently and said that. So, hey, they were trying whatever they could, right? To give them some help, yeah.
terry (03:17.766)
Right, they were. And LeBron at that point had really did kind of at least mentally have one foot out the door. I really believe that. So, okay, all that rolls into this game, which normally what happens when one team has a seven game series and then they win and then you got to go on the road to play the better team in game number one.
And on top of it, you know, Boston 37 and four at home Boston with the, uh, I think 64 and 18 overall record Boston averaging 121 points best in the NBA. And then kind of a stat that a lot of people aren’t aware of Boston number two in defense, which meant they ranked higher than Orlando. Um, and so that was, meanwhile, Donovan Mitchell, you know, led the wagon train through the wilderness of the Orlando series to get them there.
And then all of a sudden it’s like, or even a better analogy is like, if you, if you, if you’ve ever done some hiking and I have, and whether it’s like Appalachian trial or parts out West or whatever, you climb this first hill and then you go to the second hill and you get this really good view. You go, Oh, now we’re in good shape. Then you go down the valley and all of a sudden, Oh, the next one is 500 feet higher. And you’ve been fooled to think you’ve actually reached the summit, but no, you have it.
David Campbell (04:38.734)
Ha ha.
terry (04:43.846)
And so that’s what it was. They ran into a much bigger mountain after spending a lot of energy to get over the first one. That doesn’t mean they’ll get blown out the next three games or anything like that, but it was set up. I was glad I even might’ve pulled a down earlier in that game than, than JB did because that was not by the middle of third quarter. You know, this was going in a real bad direction.
David Campbell (05:05.678)
Terry, we’ve talked on this podcast a lot about the way the NBA has changed and the way it used to be. And you’ve talked about the NBA back in the day when the Cavs first started and the seventies, but like you watched that game last night and people talk about the modern NBA. Like that’s the Celtics are playing what the modern NBA is striving to look like, right? It’s drive to the basket and get easy layups. And if that’s not working, you kick it out, pass, pass, pass, and you’re getting easy threes.
terry (05:14.278)
channel.
terry (05:21.638)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (05:35.598)
the mid -range game, not so much mid -range game, but it’s all layups and threes, layups and threes, and they have the guys that can make that work. And you have to appreciate that. If you’re a basketball fan, you have to watch that last night. And yes, the Cavs were tired and that wasn’t the best version of the Cavs that we saw. But just to see the way that team played, that was like Celtics modern NBA basketball at peak efficiency last night. And you have to appreciate it. You really do.
terry (06:00.39)
And, but also there was an old school touch to it. Two things. Number one, spacing was terrific. This wasn’t as Charles Barkley says, any fool driving down, taking any full three pointer from any foolish place on the court. That is not how they play. And that was how a lot of younger teams play. Cause they think the high volume of threes, you know, the cause three is better than two. But of course there are times when two is better than one, than none. And.
David Campbell (06:05.39)
Absolutely.
terry (06:29.222)
What they’ve done though that I appreciated, I watched the spacing, which, and they had the calf scrambling around the perimeter too, and they would throw several passes. It wasn’t just a guy drives in, then throws the pass to the corner for three. Well, you could kind of figure it out how to defend that corner three now, but then that guy in the corner often threw it to somebody at the top of the key and he might throw it to the wing on the other side. It was pass, pass, pass.
Boom, I wrote about that. I got pass, fast, fast, swish. That’s what it was within about nine seconds. I mean, it was quick. And then the situation is in that game that Boston dominated the boards, even though they don’t have Pasingas. Why? Because they were scrambling for a lot of the long rebounds. They out -hustled the cast for those. I mean, Mobley was seen to be the only one on the boards. I think he had 13 rebounds. Nobody else had more than six, I believe.
But I thought, and I wrote about this in my column, Joe Mazzulla said something interesting. I like to kind of get the tape or the video of the opposing coach, see what he’s saying. Cause a lot of times we’re so focused on that. And this was an interview with the Boston media before the game, uh, then the day before, in fact, the practice. And he was talking about the raving about Mitchell. And he said, you know, Mitchell plays unbelievable game. He scored 50. He said, but he noticed they lost.
He said in the next game he scored in the high thirties and they won. And the difference was he called them, I don’t mean they’re marginal, but he called them players on the margin. And that was those other guys helped Donovan in game seven. They didn’t in game six. He goes, I’ll settle for a game six. In other words, Donovan goes for big numbers. We’re going to try to take away the guys on the margin. And he, by name, he mentioned Laverte, O ‘Coro and, um, uh,
Yes, truce and I can’t remember if he mentioned garland or not, but those three for sure And if you look at the game early on remember a coral hit a couple threes and help them stay close Karis had a miserable day. I think he had four points. I don’t know what’s going on with truce they’re just not getting much out of him at all and so that’s something to watch in game two can the calves get more from the guys on the margins because I
terry (08:54.182)
They’re going to live with Donovan going for 35. They also think it’ll wear Donovan out.
David Campbell (08:57.998)
Yeah, and going back to your point about the threes, Terry, I was curious to look at the shot charts from last night’s game. How many so, you know, for those who don’t know, like the corner three is a nice shot. NBA players like that corner three because it’s shorter, right. And it’s kind of a nice sight line. How many corner threes do you think the Cavs had last night?
terry (09:03.494)
Mm -hmm.
terry (09:13.382)
Yeah, it’s a short a shot. Yeah.
terry (09:19.782)
3 something I don’t even know yeah exactly
David Campbell (09:19.95)
one attempt and it was missed. The Celtics had seven and an eighth one that was right on, you know, they have zones on the court, an eighth one that was right on the line. So they had eight to the Cavs. All the other Cavs three point shots were around the arc going outside, not in the corner. And I think that kind of ties into the point you were just making is the Celtics ability to get to the basket. And if I could show people the shot chart, like the restricted area under the,
terry (09:30.342)
Yeah.
terry (09:39.046)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (09:48.526)
the basket the Cavs were defending is just all cluttered with Celtics shots because they were able to get to the basket and then kick out and get whatever three they wanted. It’s very evenly distributed around the arc, including the corner. But you know, it just goes to show you like, I think JB said this during the game, they showed him in the huddle during the game. It’s like, we’ve got to stop the layups and we got to close out. And he was right. That was early in the game when he said that. And that was exactly what they’re going to be up against in game two.
terry (09:53.926)
Yeah.
terry (10:18.502)
And they committed a lot of fouls. I don’t know how many offhand, I forgot how many free throws the Celtics took, but it was quite a number. And that has to do with, I call it the cement seeker sneaker effect too. There were a lot of reaching and grabbing. I mean, we are talking about really no one’s figured out how to defend the Celtics. Just now and then the Celtics have these lapses in defense, even though they’re ranked high or they almost lose interest and blow some leads. I mean, they were 64 and 18.
They had that one game where Miami made every shot under the sun, but the other four games, they just wiped the heat out. Now the heat were without Jimmy Butler for most of the series. Nonetheless, I mean, they’re, they’ve run into a, they’ve run into a super team. Uh, and now, I mean, regardless of who you would have drawn, so if you were in the other, uh, bracket, well, then you would have run into a New York or you would run, you know, take your pick. I don’t, whoever it was. Um,
I would have loved to see the Caps play Indiana. That would have been a nice matchup for them. But Boston and New York are playing a different type of game. Now their styles are different, but they’re just rugged teams to face.
David Campbell (11:29.806)
So JB said last night in his post game, he said, you’re not used to the speed, the spacing and the shooting of the Celtics until you get to play against them. And I think that was a good point. And now he basically was saying, you know, we understand what this is now. He was talking about how it was a completely different style of basketball from what they saw against Orlando. And it takes us a minute to adjust to it. He wasn’t making excuses, but he’s saying like, all right, now we know what this is and now we can do better against it. He talked about limiting the amount of three pointers they take.
terry (11:39.366)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (11:59.758)
And you can’t wait for the guy to catch the ball before you go close him out on those threes. You got to be there earlier so that he can’t get a clean look. What do you think JB needs to do? Do you like those adjustments that he’s suggesting? Do you think there’s other things he should try? He went to the bench pretty early last night and I know fans are always like, oh, they got to use more of the bench. But what would you do if you were him going into game two? What would you try?
terry (12:28.07)
prayer and holy candles is good. First of all, yeah, if you’re JB, because you need to, well, the Bible says, now stay with me, it’s not gonna go into a Bible lesson, but it says this in the book of James, pray for wisdom because he who needs wisdom needs to pray for wisdom, excuse me. Well, you need a lot of wisdom on this because what the Celtics are also good at is when you come to close out on them, if they don’t pass it,
David Campbell (12:28.142)
For starters, right?
terry (12:56.295)
They pump fake and they go to the rim. Again, there they are. There’s your, there’s your layup. They’re very good at that. Uh, and like, for example, Jason Tatum was a really physical player. Uh, and I do think like white who’s coming to his own in Boston was a pretty good player in San Antonio, but here he’s around all these other shooters and it just carries over with him. Uh, so yeah, you gotta, you gotta close out. I don’t have any great ideas. I really don’t.
I would love to see them have Allen because I think where the Celtics are vulnerable is defensively is with a big guy under the rim who could score. And Moby missed a lot of easy shots. I think he ended up with 17 points, but he missed some easy ones. And that’s one, that Cornett guy had a good game, but I think the rebounding was something like 53 to 38. That’s embarrassing. I would pound on the Cavs about that. And.
David Campbell (13:52.142)
Yeah, I mean the thing is though like there were a lot like it was like with the Knicks last year there were so many balls going through the basket. I mean it’s easier to get a defensive rebound than an offensive rebound but like you said if it’s swish swish there’s no rebounds to be had but I agree more guys need to go there I do I do agree with that.
terry (13:59.302)
Yeah.
terry (14:04.582)
Yeah. But do you, you, and you have to help. You can’t just say, well, the big guy should get the rebounds. What makes the Celtics, excuse me, and the, I’ll give it to the Celtics too. The Celtics, the team rebound. And so do, so does New York. I mean, everybody wishes they had Josh Hart can average 10 rebounds a game in a playoffs, a guard. But, and I think, I think Mitchell had like six rebounds in this game.
But it just seems like.
You know, Struz can go get eight. He’s done that in a playoff game. I think he had nine a couple times in that Orlando series. They need Struz. They need Niang. Now, Niang being slow is really kind of exposed in this, but boy, if they could just get a few shots from him. Even though Merrill didn’t play well, I think he went over for five. I’m glad they got him out there and let him play in that game. He needs to play. I mean, it’s really hard when you sit there forever and then you’re thrown in for five minutes.
in a playoff game and then you’re out, you have no flow, you have nothing. And so that’ll be a good thing. Yeah.
David Campbell (15:12.75)
Yeah. And the guys, the guys were talking about that on our Cavs podcast the other night, Terry, that it’s like Merrill’s at the point where they put him in. If he hits two three -pointers, he gets to stay in. If he misses two three -pointers, he comes out. And it’s a tough way to live, isn’t it? It’s in the NBA, especially in the playoffs.
terry (15:28.422)
And I would agree. And it’s not like you’re, he’s just replacing another guy who’s making three pointers to get some rest. Nobody’s making them. Nobody’s making it. By the way, one of the reasons the shot chart on the threes looks weird for the calves is Mitchell loves this. Well, the Garland loves the three pointer straight on almost like behind a free throw line. Mitchell loves this spot, which is one of the longest shots you can take near the arc.
It’s off to the left of the arc, it’s sort of halfway between where the straight line goes to the corner and the top of the key. He loves that shot. And actually I was talking about that and saying, I hate, I hate it. It’s too long. And I was sitting with Danny Cunningham who does a lot of sports talk and does a really nice job. Um, and so he done the fly with, he goes, he goes, well, he’s shooting 38%. I’m like, okay, it’s his shot. Um, cause he likes to kind of.
drift to left when he shoots his jump shot. A lot of guys do by the way, they’re right -handed because we kind of go to your left. You know what it does? It squares your shoulders around. Bird used to always go to his left and I, he was the one that mentioned that. That’s why he liked to do that. It squares you up to the, to the, to the torso basket. So, uh, that’s a long shot. Um, you know, but. Neang shot, I think is a career 40 % shooter.
I know in the playoffs a year ago at Philadelphia and might be even in the playoffs total on threes and he’s just been horrible. And, um, and I love strews, but it’s like, he is just not with it. I don’t know if that’s how much of that is the offense or what. And I also just wonder, remember when Mitchell was running the offense and Garland was out for most of it, but not all of it, the movement they had, I don’t know where that went.
David Campbell (17:21.166)
Yeah, I was just thinking back to that run that the Cavs had when Mitchell was running the point there in the regular season. They had that wind streak. And if you’re a Cavs fan, you got to be wondering, man, I wonder what this would look like with Jared Allen, a healthy Jared Allen in the lineup and a healthy Donovan Mitchell and running that kind of stuff. It’s just, it’s too bad that it can’t happen. It’s going to be rough.
terry (17:29.446)
Yeah.
terry (17:37.286)
Sure.
terry (17:45.574)
And I want to say that, I want to say this about Alan. I, this is my speculation. I know nothing officially on this at all. I’ve heard nothing because they’re, they’re silent. But as someone who has broken ribs twice, I can tell you that, uh, where they’ve talked about, he’s been an excruciating pain. You know, you kind of hear the reports can’t sleep. That’s how I was. And as looking at a player who played an 81 consecutive games.
before game five in Orlando. I don’t think he’s out, cause I’m getting emails. Well, just tape them up. You got some bruised ribs. It’s not that. I don’t know what it is, but I also know what really bad rib injuries are. And it takes a couple of weeks for that thing to calm down because you have trouble raising your arms. It’s just, and those of you who’ve had it, you know, it’s just a bad injury. And it’s really like, there’s nothing much they could do.
They used to wrap them up, but then they found out that impaired your breathing and that sometimes led to pneumonia. So that wasn’t even a smart move. I went through it in November with two crack ones in the back rib cage. And several years ago, I cracked one in the front of my rib cage. And a wonderful story is simply walking out of the restaurant, sliding on black ice and slamming into an SUV in the parking lot. That’s a great story.
David Campbell (19:11.63)
Yeah, if you can raise your hands over your head, Terry, you can’t play basketball, right?
terry (19:17.222)
You can’t play. Yeah. And, and that’s, so, so I, cause I really liked Jared and, but I, I’m not counting on him for anything. And it would, it would be nice. Oh, sure. Yeah. He would be in there. Cause even though he, you know, the lights were too bright or whatever, he wanted to play against the Knicks and he went in there and he got thrown around. He got frustrated. It didn’t play well. He came back with a vengeance in the, during the regular season and into the playoffs. He had a career year.
David Campbell (19:24.782)
If he could play, he would be playing. There’s no doubt about that. Yep.
terry (19:46.054)
Remember the first two playoff games, he had 39 rebounds total against Orlando, which is a tough team to rebound against. So it certainly would help. But really this is like Moby’s chance. Moby can score on these guys. There are shots available to him inside. We’re not talking about three pointers out there. There are inside shots there. He just has to be, he’s learning toughness. And it’s funny, I got a email from a guy and he said, they,
I don’t know what Kobe Altman and Brikkerstaff are doing. Why don’t they just bring in Mark Price to like fix his jump shot and you know, he should be able to shoot and this and that. And I said, well, just for what it’s worth at the same age, mobile as now, Mark Price was a senior at Georgia Tech. And then his rookie year, the following year, he averaged 18 minutes a game, struggled most of the year to the point where they drafted Kevin Johnson in the first round, cause they weren’t sure Price was their guy.
David Campbell (20:25.519)
at Georgia Tech.
David Campbell (20:39.566)
Good perspective.
terry (20:42.022)
So, you know, really these, we want these guys to get there right away. Just like in Boston, they went through all this, uh, frustrations with Tatum and Brown, even go back to remember when Robron was beating them with those young guys. And they’re at this thing, they haven’t won a playoff, excuse me, a title since 2008, I believe. And so they’re at that, they’re kind of like championship or nothing is where they are.
David Campbell (21:07.47)
Well, can we talk about Darius Garland for a minute here? I’m really interested. I think one of the things I love about the things you’ve been writing lately, Terry, is like perspective, like keep, and you were just mentioning it right now with how old these guys are or how young they are. But, you know, people think back to the Bulls of the 90s and the six championships and a lot of people don’t remember, like they beat their heads against the Detroit Pistons for years and years and couldn’t beat them. And there was like this hardening effect that happened through all those failures where they
terry (21:13.222)
Yeah.
terry (21:21.254)
Yeah.
David Campbell (21:37.422)
figured out what it takes and how hard it is and what kind of sacrifice has to happen to win. And I’m thinking of two things with Garland that happened within the last few days or one is the other day when he had that awful first half in game seven, right? And you were at the game and Donovan Mitchell went over to him and sat down next to him and put his arm around him, right? And said, listen, we believe in you, do what you do. We’re going to get this done. And it’s weird because.
terry (21:57.126)
Mm.
David Campbell (22:07.214)
You know, you don’t, you don’t understand like what that moment and I’m, I don’t want to overstate what this is, but you watch that happen. And then last night we’ve talked about this. He, he has to get hit in the face more than anybody else in the NBA, but he got hit in the face last night. And when he got up from that and waved off, you know, I’m fine. I’m staying in. Uh, I kind of thought to myself like, this is, this is part of the lesson and part of this hardening process.
terry (22:23.014)
Yeah.
David Campbell (22:36.526)
And Darius Garland, I think is starting to understand what it takes to succeed in the playoffs a little bit. And it might not matter this year, but it might matter next year or the year after. I don’t know. Did you, did you see any of that? Um, it’s kind of like these little baby steps that are happening where guys are starting to, to learn what it’s going to take to be a championship team.
terry (22:39.238)
Mm -hmm.
terry (23:00.262)
I mean, the Bulls to roll back to that and the Cavs first played them in the playoffs in 88. This was before the shot game and they lost to them there. And then in 89, it was the, they lost to them in the shot game for Michael. And it, but both of those things is the Celtic, excuse me, the Pistons then knocked them out. Because if you look back at the core group, which was Jordan and Pippen and Horace Grant, Pippen,
missed a playoff game because of my migraine. I’m not diminishing that, but remember that was a big thing there. And he bought fought migraines a lot in his career and he would just learn how to play with them as it went along. They also did bring that’s when they traded Oakley and they brought in a classic little post guy, Bill Cartwright. And that helped them to Cartwright brought some extra toughness. But as you said, they had to not only go through Cleveland and then later Cleveland never really could go through the through the bulls.
But they had to go through Detroit. And so I was at that game where they finally beat Detroit and the Pistons. Nobody would shake their hand or they just got up and walked off the court. In fact, the game, yeah, the game wasn’t even because they’re getting beat badly. And so Thomas and the Mahorna and those guys, they just left before the game was even over. Uh, so that was, and then they were on their way there to the title and the cows have to go through some of this.
David Campbell (24:04.718)
and left, yeah.
terry (24:26.406)
And just like Boston, the Boston fans, I think we don’t realize how frustrated they’ve been with the Celtics the last several years because they keep thinking they have this really good team and they’ve had it, but they couldn’t get there. They couldn’t win the title.
David Campbell (24:40.43)
So Chris Fedor, who was covering the game for us last night, along with Ethan Sands, our other Cavs reporter asked JB, so Garland’s numbers, right? 14 points, I think six of 15 from the field, two of eight on three pointers. I think it was minus 19, which was not the worst on the Cavs. I think it was maybe tied for third, but Chris said, what can you do to get Darius going? And JB said, it’s on me to help him so that he doesn’t have to work so hard and we’ll do that. And I think part of what JB was saying is that they,
terry (24:58.374)
Yeah.
terry (25:05.062)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (25:10.158)
don’t want him to have to bring the ball up against pressure and then try to create offense against perimeter pressure. And he’s got to work just to get a shot. And I think what we might see in game two, maybe from what JB was saying is other guys bringing the ball up the floor, Laverte, when he’s in there and trying to run stuff for Darius Garland so that he’s able to get free with one or two moments of effort instead of 20 seconds of effort. So do you think that’s a good idea?
terry (25:10.278)
Mm -hmm.
terry (25:29.222)
Mm -hmm.
terry (25:40.55)
He has to learn to move it out the ball. That’s what Garland’s gonna have to do. Garland should be out there looking for his shots and I don’t mean forcing them. And as you said, so.
You know, the circle drives in the nowhere drive me nuts and most of the fans. And I think a lot of it, he thinks he can create some space to go to the rim and, and that, but, uh, right now he’s, if he could just make outside shots, that would help. Um, he’s a strange player this season because of the injuries he’s had. And I don’t remember him being just so vulnerable to pressure defense.
Uh, where he, two guys jump out on him and he’s not able to break the double team. It just kind of goes frenetic. I mean, you don’t know what he’s going to do. So you do have, see the best backcourt, at least during the regular season, stats wise was, uh, Mitchell and Struce. Um, and you know, Mitchell Struce, uh, when you have out there, Coral, you have Laverth, those guys, uh, you have some size and he has some toughness. So.
We’ll see how this is going to play out. I wish I had more thoughts on how to handle this. I don’t. Um, I just, you just got to hope that Celtics now and then just have a clunker game or two and you got, you get, you get going. But if I’m JB, of course I would say, well, we weren’t used to that. We’re going to get, get with it. You got to keep selling your team. Hope it’s hard to be in a coach.
David Campbell (27:06.862)
Sure. Yeah, absolutely. And I think he said the right things last night. So, all right, Terry, you want to take a quick break here? All right, when we come back, we are going to get into some Bo Naylor discussion and Kyle Manzardo is up with the guardians and has played two games. We’re going to talk about what we’re seeing or not seeing there. We’ll be right back on Terry’s talking.
David Campbell (31:28.43)
Welcome back to Terry’s talking. Hey, let’s get into the guardians, Terry. Hey, real quick. We got a letter last week from Ron moaning about why the guardians pitch Emanuel Classe and tie games on the road in the ninth inning. I didn’t have a lot of time to research it last week, but I was curious when Ron asked the question, I wanted to get back to this one real quick. I was wondering how many extra inning games the guardians had last year and how long they went. So I found this kind of interesting. They had 16 games that ended in 10 innings.
terry (31:45.286)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (31:58.99)
two games that ended in 11 innings, one game that went 12 and one game that went 14. So I thought we kind of, I might’ve glossed over Ron’s question a little bit last week, but I think what this shows is 16 games ending in 10 innings. You might as well put class A in on the ninth to get you to the 10th because it’s probably not going past 10 as the data shows. So you’re either putting them in the ninth or the 10th. And if you put them in the 10th, you’re assuming you get elite. Like there’s no difference really. And you might as well use them early to get you to the 10th. So I just wanted to circle back on that. So.
terry (32:23.27)
No.
terry (32:33.158)
And along those same lines, you know, the, and I was originally in this cause I was still getting used to the new rules. It’s like, you got a guy in a second, you got to kind of weaker hit her up their bottom over the third. Get a run easy run that way. But often it seems like you need two runs to win almost like everybody can score a run.
David Campbell (32:48.238)
How do you get two, right? Yep.
terry (32:53.702)
Yeah, how do you get to so do you want to sacrifice that out? So just something to to keep an eye on and I had to readjust my thinking that way.
David Campbell (32:58.798)
Yeah, well, thanks for that question Ron. So all right, Terry, we have a letter here about Bo Naylor from our longtime listener, Ed Cohen and Ed writes in and again, he sent this to sports at cleveland .com, which is where you can hit us with any questions, comments or good baseball stories or whatever you have. So, but anyway, Ed says after last Thursday night’s defensive atrocity in the series finale with Houston, Bo Naylor has the most pass balls of any catcher in the American league. He gifted Houston a run the same inning. He also failed to take charge on a pop foul.
that cost Logan Allen out.
terry (33:33.542)
No, no, I’m stopping right there. That is the brother Josh’s ball. It is not the catcher’s call on a pop -up, but he’s correct on the first part. Go ahead. Yeah.
David Campbell (33:39.182)
All right, I will continue the ball fell between him and his own brother one would think communication would not be a problem between brothers. It’s obviously. All right.
terry (33:51.43)
What family do you live in? Sorry about that, but that’s it. That was like a fat batting practice pitch. I had a swing at that one.
David Campbell (33:56.366)
All right, Ed says it’s obviously too early in his career to give up on Bo, but he’s certainly being given a pass. He’s the worst defensive catcher on the team right now and he isn’t hitting either. 176, well I’ll update the stats in a minute because these are from last week. And Ed says should he be sent down to work on sharpening his offense and defense? David Frye has proven he can catch and hit especially in the clutch. So Bo Naylor’s batting average as of Wednesday morning, Terry 176. He’s got a 558 OPS, 91 at bats, three homers.
nine ribbies and 12 walks with 38 strikeouts. Bo Naylor, where you at on Bo?
terry (34:39.334)
This is a classic thing you see in baseball with young players. When you bring them up in the middle of the season or whatever, it seems like they perform better. And then you come back with them the next year and they struggle. And by the way, I may bring up, well, Jose Ramirez first came up in Francona’s first year. So that was 2000 and I think it was 13. He came up in September. So they brought him, I believe straight up from AA.
But that was just to pinch Ron and do a few things. So, but 2014, he opened the season, the minors then came up and played very well. So 15, he opens the season in Cleveland and struggles, mightily gets sent back to the minors and is down there for a couple of months. Then eventually he comes back and he’s on his way. So, Bo last year came up in during the summer.
He struggled for a little while, but then after the All -Star break, he had extremely well. I think he had like 280, but some home runs and everything opens as they give him the catching job. And I’m surprised at how he’s struck out so much and just the problems he’s had. And this also goes to when they were, was considered a good defensive catcher in the minors. It is a different game up here. And they always talk about how they.
catchers in the majorly sort of get overloaded with information on all the things. So I wrote about it a little bit this past Sunday and cause I was trying to find out from my sources if they were thinking about sending them down. And the answer is not, is not yet. Um, but it’s a possibility because he’s, as, uh, Mr. Cohen mentioned, uh, fries hitting.
And Fry is surprised everybody in the organization with how good he’s looked behind the plate and Austin Hedges will never hit, but he can catch. And so I’m actually, if I got a guy batting 176 and my catcher, I’d rather be Austin Hedges. Tell you the truth. I really just would because I know I’m going to get all the other stuff. Um, so I think it’s going to be, it’s a, it’s an internal discussion. They’re going to continue to have.
David Campbell (37:00.302)
I do think Terry, like, yeah.
terry (37:01.478)
Especially if he doesn’t start to show some life. Levistida is the AAA catcher. I think he’s sitting about 250. I don’t particularly like him a whole lot. I’d rather do the fry hedges thing if that’s what they want to do.
David Campbell (37:13.646)
Yeah, sorry to interrupt you there. I was just going to say like with the Guardians, what 23 and 13 as of this Wednesday morning, I think they have a two and a half game lead on the Royals. Like things are okay, right? Like it’s not like the season is starting to slip away and they’re going in the tank and the wild, they don’t have a shot at it. Like I think this team would love to make the wild card even at this point, you know, given how young it is and what they’re trying to build here. So like they have time, they have time to let Bo Naylor.
terry (37:20.198)
Yeah.
Yep.
terry (37:28.71)
Yeah.
terry (37:41.51)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (37:42.51)
not catch as much or and they have options, you know, like, like we were just talking about and like Ed was pointing out, they have other guys who can catch and so maybe Bo Niller doesn’t catch as much for a while until he gets it back or maybe they move them around and let them DH some Sunday afternoon. Like they have options here and they have, they have a lead and they’re playing really good baseball. Um,
terry (38:06.246)
Now to be fair to Bo, two other stats that he’s thrown out 29 % of the base runners, so she doesn’t sound high, but the American league average is 22%. Baseball savant, I think it is, keeps this thing called framing. And it’s a big thing I hear from the guardians all the time. And Bo was sixth or fifth in the American league and framing means how you, a pitch comes in, do you help your pitcher get the borderline pitch framed? Do you frame it so it looks like a strike?
I don’t know, like they got some AI robot deciding what, what is or isn’t, but both pretty good at that. So that was told that’s another reason they’re not rushed. Cause I said, well, the guy’s not hitting and then he’s got the four pass balls in this. And they said, well, you got to go dig a little deeper, you know, like there and look at that. So that’s the key thing. It’s like, now to like, what was Freeman hitting like 190 or something Freeman is hitting 196, 624 OPS. So.
We had a discussion. Are you worried about that? And they said not right now to your point. It’s a long season. He’s young player and he’s also giving us a very good center field so we don’t feel that it’s a defensive liability at all. In fact, he’s been a plus. Not gold, gold, but he’s been a plus and we want. We think he can hit so we’re going to be patient and see how that plays out and.
Last I saw a mile straw, we’ll look it up as we’re talking. Was it like 245 or something at Columbus? I mean, it’s not like he suddenly went down there and then figured things out. So those are two things that are going on in terms of like players to come or go. But I don’t think that they’re sold on the, they got to keep Bo up here all year at all.
David Campbell (39:53.006)
All right, well, it’s very early in the stage for Kyle Manzardo. We’re not having those kinds of discussions. The Guardians brought him up on Monday and he’s played two games. He’s the number two prospect in the Guardian system, was tearing it up at Columbus. Came up Monday night, went 0 -4 -3 with three strikeouts and Tuesday night he went 0 -4 -4 with two strikeouts. So he’s off to an 0 -4 -7. So a very small data sample here, Terry, but...
terry (40:17.478)
I was there for that.
David Campbell (40:21.006)
I don’t know, would you want to talk about Manzaro?
terry (40:26.246)
I actually was slipping back. I was slipping back and forth a little bit just to see if he would hit the ball, you know, during the game. I mean, just, you know, on the computer, he just go to the boxer or something. Oh, by the way, Miles straw. Oh my goodness. What do you think he’s hitting at Columbus? He wishes to 236 to all low PS. I mean, it’s about what he hit here. The numbers look like here.
David Campbell (40:38.382)
238? Really?
terry (40:54.694)
So whatever he was, they were hoping he would work on. Yeah. In fact, he hit two 38 with Cleveland last year and he had two 21 before. So it’s not as if I think if miles were down there and hitting 300, um, and looking like he had, I don’t know, you know, he’s a career three or five hitter in the minors. I don’t know what happened to him. See, that’s why I was very high on that trait. Cause I knew he was elite defensively. I knew he could steal basis and he had shown some.
With the Astros and a little bit of playing time in the big leagues. And I just looked at his minor league profile as athleticism. I thought you give this chance guy a chance to play. He could probably have 275 and 280 and you know, OPS around 700 and, and be a productive player, but which he was that first half year. And then after that, you know, forget it. Um, so it just.
David Campbell (41:39.342)
Yeah, well, I know Chris Antinetti said before the season and told Miles Stroud, we haven’t seen the last of you. You’re going to be back with the Guardians at some point. I don’t know if that’s going to happen the way it’s going. So, yeah.
terry (41:53.606)
Not if you hit in 220, I mean, it should be a caveat. You can’t hit even worse than you did last year in Cleveland. I mean, that’s so that that’s why they’re going with Freeman. Um, I got you off track. You run to something. Oh man’s art. Oh boy. Yeah. It’s a wonderful thing. I Stephen vote. Didn’t he have that? Like he went, where did he go for 25 or something when he was first called.
David Campbell (41:59.502)
It’s okay. Let’s talk Kyle Manzardo for a second. Yeah.
David Campbell (42:09.422)
Yeah, it’s uh, paul hoines just put up a story this morning He started his big league career in an 0 for 32 slump stephen voted over two with two teams He went over 25 with the rays in 2012 and then started over for seven with the a’s in 2013 And he told the reporters that between those two years. He was having dreams that he’d been designated for assignments He was asleep at night
terry (42:22.598)
Uh.
terry (42:32.358)
Ugh.
David Campbell (42:35.374)
So just to give a little perspective for Kyle Manzardo to feel a little bit better about things.
terry (42:38.63)
Ugh.
Alright.
terry (42:46.054)
I mean, I, you know, this is a whole other deal, but struggling with hitting is that, so my senior at Benedictine, Kosciak -Ibasu, proving that he’s indeed a Christian and wants to, you know, give to the, the, the faint of heart and weak in opportunity begins to open the season with me playing second base of Benedictine. And I went like, oh, for 14. And.
And we, we like lost again. We were struggling to, I mean, we were winning, but you know, I remember lost the games like places like Benedict and or Walsh or that’s a big deal. And so, you know, I’m now I’m kind of like half in half out of the lineup and Oh for 14. It felt like Oh for 50. And you do get into, I remember we, I hit bottom. We played, this is probably how man’s arrow bite. We played, this is where I’m going. St. St. Ed’s and, um,
David Campbell (43:35.278)
Oh.
terry (43:37.446)
And three at bats, I left eight guys on base and struck out three times. And my best friend on team came over and goes, why didn’t you just bunt? You can bunt. I go, why didn’t you tell me? Because you know what? Now, when I finally did get a hit, I bumped and I ended up the season hit like 230, you know, but the point being the weight on you and here Manzardo, he struck out like once a game in triple A or less. And.
David Campbell (43:40.558)
you
terry (44:06.63)
You know, you just, you just lose it. And I don’t care what level you’re in. I, you know, a lot of Ted Williams and other people used to say, they felt the hardest thing is sports was to successfully hit a baseball, not just hit it, but hit it for hits. And when, I mean, if you’re a 30 % shooter, you’re not going to play very long. You know, you make 30 % of your pots and make 30 % of anything just about, but 30 % getting a hit.
David Campbell (44:33.326)
Yeah, I was interested. Again, it’s very small data sample, but you know, when you come up, Terry, from the miners, what do you want to do? You got your family in the crowd. You want it. You want to hit the ball, right? And, and put it in play and make something happen. You don’t want to be walking. Like it’s, it’s, it’s your juices are flowing. Uh, I was just looking on baseball savant and like he he’s faced that it seems like they’re pitching him down at very down in the zone. 13 of the pitches that he’s seen have been seven of them been down and in out of the zone.
terry (44:35.814)
is an all -star level for the most part.
terry (44:46.694)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
David Campbell (45:03.406)
and six of them have been down and away out of the zone. So 13 of the pitches that he’s seen have been out of the zone and he’s only seen 16 total pitches in the zone during all of his at bats so far. So he’s wanting to, and he’s swinging at a lot of these, you know, his whiff percentage is 50 % for that down and in out of the zone area. He’s swung at 57 % of those pitches down and in and 17 % of the pitches down and away out of the zones.
terry (45:04.006)
Mm -hmm.
terry (45:21.062)
Yeah.
terry (45:29.67)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (45:30.766)
So he’s just got to, I think once he gets his pitch selection ratcheted in a little bit, I think he’s going to settle in. It’s just, they’ve got to just, he says to calm down.
terry (45:44.39)
He struck out only, he struck out only one of six times at Columbus. And so, yeah, it’s not one of three or whatever. And so he’s not been that. And when I looked at the various videos, not just YouTube highlights, you could find it, dig on the internet and find more detailed stuff when they traded for Manzardo. Cause he’s been kind of a hot prospect. Um,
David Campbell (45:44.558)
which is a good sign for, yeah.
terry (46:10.79)
What you saw, they always said good bat to ball skills and it showed up in his ability to hit the ball to left center a lot for doubles. Um, he’s just, he’s probably a nervous wreck. I mean, I went down there, he seemed pretty calm, but, uh, although I will say this, he did kind of have the wide eye look in the press room when he’s up there. I mean, he’s been interviewed before, but still it’s like, you know, I am here. My family came in from, I remember he’s from Idaho, came in from Idaho. Um, and.
Here’s my chance. I mean, he was really hot. And so I, uh, I don’t think that in any way they’re going to give up on him. The weird thing, by the way, cause I’m sitting with Paul Hoynes and talking to Voda bottom. And I asked him, well, is he going to play much or what? And, oh yeah, we’re going to play him and DH. And I said, what about the field? He says, yeah, he’s going to play some first. He goes, and we’re going to look at work a little bit with them in the outfield.
And it took a minute for me to whisper to myself, did he say outfield? And I said, not even like, I’m just kind of let it go, but I’m not bringing this guy up and putting him in the outfield even in practice. He just needs to, he never played the outfield.
David Campbell (47:19.118)
So what do you do with him and Josh Naylor Terry just DH one of them one day in first base the other day. I mean.
terry (47:29.638)
Yeah, that’s for now, yeah. Well, also remember Quan’s out anyway.
David Campbell (47:32.046)
Right. So you got another spot there to put somebody, right?
terry (47:39.334)
So in other words, yeah, so they want to, the other thing, the other head scratcher to me a little bit was, uh, I really like Florio on the lead off spot. He said, and that it was like, I walked out of the press conference, by the way, I like vote. I really do. It’s interesting. You buddy, I see what he’s doing a little bit. He hasn’t quite this part yet. Sometimes it just tells you what he’s thinking about as opposed to like where they’re really going. And I’ll find out what you mean. It would kind of jump on that.
But actually he has been leading for real off. And so hoins and I are walking out and I just say to hoins, well, why does he like for you leading up? And he’ll pause. I don’t know. Cause I mean, this is like way beyond deep analytics. This is like basic common sense. Who bats the most in any lineup.
David Campbell (48:12.526)
Hahaha!
David Campbell (48:24.046)
leadoff hitter.
terry (48:31.462)
Of course. Yeah, that’s not a trick question. So, I mean, that was even sometimes the thought of like Grady Sizemore leading off or things like that. Remember they would, they started doing that stuff or you bet your Aaron Judge best second a lot. You, you put those guys to the top of the lineup. I’m not sure. And I, and I do, I want to see more of Florio. I think there’s, there’s something there, but I’m looking at him now. He has.
Oh boy, he has struck out 28 times in 68 at bass. He’s back in 206 on base percentages, 280, you know, so I guess now if you don’t want to lead them off, who would you want to lead off? I’ll ask you David Campbell.
David Campbell (49:08.238)
I mean, there’s no candidate who just sticks out. Like it’s interesting. I keep thinking, Terry, that these, these guardians, and I know the fans are having fun with this team so far with the, with the start they’ve had, they remind me of like of a 13 year old youth travel team. Like that, Hey, today, you know what? Everybody needs to play everywhere. You need to know, you need to be able to play every position. We’re today, go out to right field and just, you know, we’re going to pick it up as we go and it’ll be good. It’ll be good for later. It’s good. You know how to do this. So.
terry (49:25.958)
Yeah.
terry (49:34.726)
Yes.
David Campbell (49:37.646)
They could put anybody up there. All right, let’s hear it.
terry (49:42.854)
Mm -hmm.
I do have a candidate.
His on -base percentage is 333. And now the hard part there is he’s also hitting almost 400 with runners in scoring position. And that’s him in this.
David Campbell (49:59.022)
Mmm.
terry (50:07.334)
So that would be a possibility for me. And it’s not what I prefer. The problem, of course, is they can’t find a fifth hitter to save their life. Although, if you wanted to.
and he has played some outfield, David Fry.
Somebody needs to bat behind Josh because the reason Jose while his batting average isn’t all that high Jose He’s got 30 RBI seven homers Is because Josh Naylor sit behind him and he’s not being walked all the time In fact Jose has nine walks Brian Roquio is more walks than Jose. How about that? Naylor leads with 15 walks. Roquio’s got 14
I mean, Roqueo actually, but I don’t think he’s ready for it. It’s got a 313 on base percentage. You could possibly do that, but that would be my only thought.
David Campbell (50:59.598)
David Fry is playing at what 22 games? I mean, we might see more of him. I think you’re right.
terry (51:10.662)
Yeah.
His swing looks really nice and compact. He’s not trying to hit home runs. You know, he’s got four doubles and that. So, but meanwhile, Fourio’s your lead off guy and I guess it’s a thought. I don’t know.
David Campbell (51:22.542)
Well, and Stephen Vogt has said he doesn’t want guys thinking like, oh, I’m the leadoff hitter today. I need to do X, Y, and Z. And then today I’m batting third. He just, he’s just telling guys, go up and take your at bat. It doesn’t matter where you’re hitting.
terry (51:38.534)
Yeah.
I think that’s it. I’ll tell you who they would like to do it, but he hasn’t hit enough to earn it at all would be Freeman. If, if Kwan’s out there with Freeman, you know, that would be his, he’s a three, three 11 career hitter in the minors. He’s not super fast, but he’s got some speed. Um, but he just is not, you know, he’s not hit. I think, you know, I’ll tell you, it’s been a bummer for them because they could really use them now. I mean, Ramon Lariado, they’re paying a skype.
almost five million bucks, he’s hitting 150. I mean, he struck out 27 times in 60 at bats.
David Campbell (52:12.302)
The quest for outfielders continues. All right, Terry, anything else on the Guardians you want to get into here?
terry (52:21.894)
Yeah.
terry (52:25.478)
A little bit worried about the starting pitching. I mean, you saw, I don’t know what’s going on with Logan Allen. Um, but he, you know, he really struggled against the tigers. Um, and we all knew Ben Wively could end up being the second best starter on the staff. If not the first, didn’t you see that coming? I mean, that’s, that is the thing about baseball, especially early in the season, the stuff that happens. I mean, Ben Wively is there, but he’s got his, um, he’s, um,
David Campbell (52:35.886)
Absolutely, didn’t everybody?
David Campbell (52:53.806)
And they’re seeing some good signs from Tristan McKenzie now. So it’s starting to get some length and yeah.
terry (52:54.822)
This is 208 ERA and four starts. So.
terry (53:03.014)
Yes, that’s where I was going. That’s a positive thing. It will see how BB does. I was happy that Carlos, you know, got through six innings the other day. I mean, who would think after seven stars that Carlos Carrasco have a better ERA than Logan Allen.
And neither one is very good. So that’ll be a big thing to see. Nonetheless, you know, these guys, they hustle, they’re fun. I just hope they keep it up. It’s neat because like the Royals are good. Nobody saw that coming. Tigers are not bad. Your White Sox are really a good team, David.
David Campbell (53:34.926)
team in AAA. Alright Terry, well the Guardians are finishing their series against the Tigers out at Progressive Field this Wednesday afternoon at 1 10 and then they have a road trip a trip coming up. I didn’t say road trip, I caught myself. That’s right, they’re at the White Sox this weekend.
terry (53:43.558)
Tch.
terry (53:52.838)
That’s right, how level was to come back from the grave to yell at you. No such thing as a road trip. Is it on the road or on a trip? Thank you very much, says Neil.
David Campbell (53:56.334)
They’ll be playing four baseball games in Chicago against the White Sox and then they have three baseball games against the Rangers in Texas before they return on the 17th for a series against the twins. So alright Terry, we have a few minutes to talk Browns here. I know you’re interested in Jerry Judy and how he’s going to fit into this offense and there’s kind of this offensive reinvention happening out in Berea this offseason with Ken Dorsey and they’re kind of trying to
terry (54:12.934)
Ooh.
terry (54:19.718)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (54:25.646)
imagine what they want to change, things they want to add. What do you think Jerry Judy’s role will be and what will he bring and what are you looking for?
terry (54:41.062)
Well, I’ve been checking with some top Browns people and I know Mary Kay has also in the lobby. So we’ve been hearing different things. And at least from my perspective is, I mean, this is Andrew Barry’s guy. He’s wanted him. He believes in him. He thinks that he’s got, you know, Barry loves separation, you know, being in the way of getting away from the defender. And he believes other than basically the knock on Judy is.
Maybe it’s not like, um, Amari Cooper who can go up in traffic and come down with a ball, you know, Cooper’s so strong now, Judy can’t do that, but he’s got breakaway speed. They think they could use them in the slot. Some, uh, set them up for those kind of movement. They want to, you won’t see as much as the, um, the bill Callahan with, um, I’m losing the term where all the guards pull out. What’s that called David? Um, yeah, all that stuff.
David Campbell (55:28.654)
Oh, the pin and pull things and yeah, yeah.
Oh, the zone, zone blocking.
terry (55:38.662)
is not quite as much with the new Dickerson. There’s no blocking and that it’s going to be a more, I guess, controlled version of that. And they really want to, you know, make this thing out of the shotgun work for Deshaun. And they believe that if you have Judy moving around the field, it’s almost like they were talking about Elijah Moore last year. Suddenly now this is Judy. So in other words,
They’re looking for this guy that they could put in motion, put in different places. Not like this. You don’t want really Mari Cooper running over the place. You want Cooper looking out there at that guy who’s trying to defend them and Cooper just figuring out how am I going to get around him? They’re also going to do this stuff. I, I’m been hearing of this. It’s like read and it’s not read and recover like reading cutting doors. If you’re defending me, I’m coming right at you. It’s like maybe five or six years off the line.
David Campbell (56:32.046)
Yeah, it’s these choice routes I think they’re called, right? Yeah, and Mary Kay’s been writing about those too, where, and the Patriots, I think, were big proponents of this, where they would send Julian Edelman down the field, and like you said, Terry, he would see what kind of leverage the defensive back was playing on him, and then go the other way. And it was up to Tom Brady to figure out where the ball would go.
terry (56:36.198)
I’m reading what is there and I could either go left or right.
terry (56:41.862)
choice routes, yeah.
terry (56:49.894)
Mm -hmm.
terry (56:55.078)
Yeah. And they want to use that not only would they think Judy would be very good at it, but they also just want to bring it in, I think for Elijah Moore and then all, you know, the big thing we hear it every year, more tight ends and you know, Nujoku now is entitled to more tight ends in terms of more tight end catches, more tight end chances, all that stuff. He’s earned it. And they, in some of their minds,
I’m saying they, because I don’t have strong opinions on Jerry, Judy. I just don’t. I even looked at some tapes and I just can’t tell, but they think in the same way that the Browns were patient and it paid off with, with, um, the Joku that’s going to happen with Judy. So we’ll see, but this is their guy. They targeted him, they extended him and we’ll take it from there.
David Campbell (57:42.094)
And for Brown’s fans who are wondering, I remember when the Amari Cooper trade was made, Brown’s fans were like, they did what and how much are they paying him? And cause I think NFL fans in general love the draft and love to get young guys cause they have a lot of promise, but there’s something to be said for trading for guys who have an NFL track record and NFL film. And Andrew Berry got out in front of the market with Amari Cooper and he has gotten out in front of the market with Jerry Judy with the extension like that.
You’re going to look at that in four years and be like, wow, they got a bargain because of the salaries.
terry (58:20.39)
The big, big difference is Cooper. Cooper had a couple of Pro Bowls in his pocket and everything else at that point. I loved Cooper. I just, I don’t know enough about Judy. I just don’t. Yeah.
David Campbell (58:22.03)
That’s true. No, there’s a little bit more risk here, but it’s not like they’re just pulling this out of a hat. I think they kind of know what they’re looking for. So Brown’s fans will hope that it works out. So.
terry (58:38.918)
I mean, you know, this is sort of like the guardians of the outfielders. They’re almost receivers. They’re always trying to find several of them. I wonder if they, I don’t know if they like my guy David Bell anymore.
David Campbell (58:51.342)
Are you saying that sarcastically?
terry (58:56.07)
You know, he’s always open.
That’s a friend of mine always texts me that he knows that like David, whenever he catches a pass, I’ll be at the game. My friend, Mike Joseph, he’ll text me and say, and David Bell is always open. So, um, we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see. But you know, now and then I’m not just saying David Bell, but there’s somebody like David Bell on a team who’s been there a couple of years, maybe it was a mid -round pick. He.
David Campbell (59:04.526)
All right.
terry (59:27.27)
He’s sort of a possession receiver. It takes a little while for the coaches to get more confidence in him. He’s putting their role and suddenly he’s catching 60 balls and being really useful. And actually, don’t you think David, they’re looking for that guy here.
David Campbell (59:30.19)
We’ll see, especially on third down, so.
David Campbell (59:35.246)
The thing is, I don’t think David Bell, we’re talking about separation with Jerry Judy, I don’t see David Bell getting separation. I don’t. And he’s got great hands, and I think they realized they needed some separation in their receiver core. So.
terry (59:46.374)
Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. That’s why they don’t like him.
terry (59:55.526)
Yeah. And this, and this is the guy they targeted and I am, I’m sure they think, okay, we, I forgot what the pick was a fifth or sixth or whatever it was. And if it doesn’t work, that’s it. If we overpaid them, fine. We’ll work it out. Um, cause this is a blessing of the Haslam’s. They are willing to front load a lot of these contracts to help with the salary cap. So that doesn’t mean you could completely avoid it, but.
to help with it and then ask for Hall from Ohio State. They love him. They just think that he’s the ideal. Tackle for. The source defense and that he won’t be playing over center as much like he was at Ohio State. Because if they want to play buddy over center, they can put Tomlinson. And that his speed will help push the middle buddies. He’s only 20 and that’s. Thing there, whereas.
Um, with the center, you know, he’s 23. They think he’s NFL ready. You just got to get better from a broken. I mean, it’s funny. You know, this shows how tough football as a game and hockey is probably the same way. It’s not a big deal. It’s just a broken tibia and fibia. Just a broken leg. You can fix it. Yeah, no, it’d be fine. You know, cast them up all that’ll get better. You know, they always worry, which is true about tendons and ligaments, MCL ACL, all those things with initials. Um,
David Campbell (01:01:04.75)
Yeah, it’ll be fine. Lineman mentality.
David Campbell (01:01:17.262)
Yeah, just a clean break, no big deal.
terry (01:01:24.614)
So, bye.
That was exactly what I was told. And if you’re a zentron, I’m fine. I just broke my leg.
David Campbell (01:01:28.398)
Yeah, it’s a very Josh Naylor in approach. So, all right, well, the Browns have rookie mini camp this weekend on May 10th, 11th, and 12th, and then they’re going to be getting into OTAs. And we will be out there, our colleagues who cover the Browns on May 22nd for OTAs. So it’s continuing on. All right, Terry, I did want to mention your new newsletter and Terry is...
terry (01:01:38.886)
Yeah.
terry (01:01:42.662)
Mm -hmm.
David Campbell (01:01:51.918)
Writing a weekly newsletter, you can sign up for it at cleveland .com slash newsletters. I love the way you’re handling this, Terry, because I think you’re giving readers like a look in a little bit of a look behind what you do every day and kind of how you think as a columnist. And I think it’s really worthwhile to sign up. Do you want to talk for a second about the approach you’re trying to take with this newsletter? It comes out every Wednesday at noon. So.
terry (01:02:17.03)
Right. In the past, the newsletters were just taking all the stories we wrote for the week and sending them out there. And, you know, really what we want to do is, especially as we go on to reward our subscribers. And so I want, they were talking about different things and I said, well, I’ll just write one. And many, many, many moons ago, so we’re probably talking more than 20 years ago now, I wrote a newsletter.
In the early days of the Akim Beacon journal that people could sign up for an email and they get it in their mailbox email. And it was, it was interactive with readers, but a lot of times, um, you know, it’d be talking about why say I took a certain approach to a story or whatnot. And one of the things I wrote about here is the rush always to off with their heads or not, you know, thumbs up, thumb down on a coach or whatever.
You can’t wait till the end of you got to do it now. And it comes out of a lot of the media. Like if you do a lot of these national media shows, wherever they want a hot take. I mean, I remember I got an email, a couple from, from, uh, some fans said, I was just watching ESPN and Kendrick Perkins. This is like the playoffs are still a month away. Kendrick Perkins says the Cavs had no chance in the first round. I don’t care who they play.
And Donovan, their main guy doesn’t want to be there and he won’t give them anything in the playoffs or something like that. So I started answering, okay, fine, let’s just cancel the season out. Kendrick Perkins said it. Kendrick Perkins learned that one way to get it. And he may feel that way, may have felt that way too, but you know, don’t be afraid to go out there. Just like when he pulled his plane, he wasn’t afraid to knock somebody on their butt. Well, do the same thing there. But what kind of comment is that?
David Campbell (01:04:02.702)
Yeah, I think the real fans in Cleveland, Terry, like if you’re a national person on a morning show, you have to say something that kind of is interesting and maybe even controversial. The people who know the teams are the ones who are in the town covering it, like you and all of our beat writers, everybody who’s there every day, they know what’s going on with the team. The national people are just hand picking things and forming opinions. So that’s a lot of the value being a subscriber to cleveland .com is like all this stuff.
terry (01:04:07.686)
Yeah, I’m gonna actually play the playoffs.
terry (01:04:17.99)
Yeah.
terry (01:04:31.91)
And if you were around, yeah, yeah, if you’re around Donovan Mitchell at all, you know that losing in the last three playoffs in her first round, ate him up, ate him up. I mean, that’s why you saw those were like epic performances in game six and seven. And he’s dragging his team with him because he knew.
Personally, it mattered to him. I don’t care if he was wearing a Cleveland uniform or Utah uniform or New York or whatever. He did not want to lose in the play. It was personal. It meant something to him. And I think all I’ve seen for two years with Donovan Mitchell is good stuff, you know, the way he handles himself. And so those are things that, you know, we talk about there. Then I’m going to use it also to solicit.
comments and like maybe things ideas I have for faith columns or letters like that mentioned, you know, though The different like for example this upcoming faith column I asked people for Mother’s Day stories What you know, what was special about your mom? And so I got some from my newsletter and then it pulled a couple off my Facebook page too so because I like to get the interactive because I I know sometimes the best stories come from my readers
David Campbell (01:05:44.782)
All right, well check out cleveland .com slash newsletters and you can sign up for Terry’s newsletter. We appreciate you looking into that. So, all right, Terry, we do, speaking of reader interaction, going back to your idea, we do have some, a couple more foul ball stories that people have sent in. This came from a discussion we had a couple months ago. And again, if you want to hit us with one of those, you can send it to sports at cleveland .com. Our first one came from Rich Buchanan in Fairview Park and Rich says,
terry (01:06:06.438)
you
David Campbell (01:06:11.79)
Ripley would not believe it on my late father’s 80th birthday, August 31st, 1999, I took him to see the angels at Jacobs Field. We had front row seats on the first base side just outside of the netting. Lieutenant Burwell Buck Buchanan, a C -47 pilot in World War II was still in excellent health and retained his cat -like reflexes, honed from playing stickball on the streets of Brooklyn, New York.
On the mound in the sixth inning for the Angels was Chuck Finley with David Justice at bat for the Tribe. Swing and a rocket of a foul ball was heading right for us. In the two seconds after the swing, I looked at my dad and I said, where did it go? He calmly showed me his hand holding the ball and said, you mean this? Wow. I didn’t even see it, but the old pilot showed his reflexes and vision were still top of the class. To cap off the night, Justice charged the mound in the eighth inning after getting plunked in the ribs.
terry (01:07:01.51)
Thank you.
David Campbell (01:07:04.846)
by Troy Percival, the Indians went on to win 14 to 12, a game I will never forget. That’s a great story. Thanks for that, Rich. And our last one here is from Bill Schuller and Bill writes in, he says, hey guys, in the early and mid sixties, my dad and I went to Indians games at municipal stadium several times a year. For sure when they played the Yankees, he liked to get there early to watch batting practice. He liked to sit in the lower deck box seats along the first baseline. One time an usher tracked down a foul ball.
terry (01:07:05.798)
Yeah.
terry (01:07:20.134)
That is.
terry (01:07:32.454)
Thank you.
David Campbell (01:07:34.606)
had Jimmy Dudley sign it while he was doing on field interviews and brought it to me in the stands. I was thrilled. It’s one of my fondest memories and I’ll never forget the kindness from that usher.
terry (01:07:46.182)
Hmm.
Thank you.
terry (01:07:55.174)
And Jimmy Dudley is in the hall of fame. He was to the tribe in the fifties and sixties. He’s the, he and Bob Neil, when I was a kid, that’s who I listened to. And I later learned that they couldn’t stand each other and they never talked to each other after the first couple of years. Cause the story there is Pete Franklin comes to town and he’s new to talk or so he goes to the game like third day in town or something. And he sits down and they kind of.
said, well, you sit between us. And then he noticed it’s like Neil would talk to him and Dudley would talk to him, but they wouldn’t talk to each other. And then like sometimes when one was on the air, they only just got up and left totally. And so later on he said he learned that that’s how it went. And so in fact, no, no, no, but they didn’t interact, but you just didn’t think of course I was like eight to 10, you know, who knew? Uh,
David Campbell (01:08:36.206)
But you couldn’t tell from listening to them. There was no indication, huh?
terry (01:08:55.782)
I thought Dudley was much, much better broadcaster. I didn’t think it was close. Dudley is in the baseball hall of fame by the way. So, and he ended up later moving to.
David Campbell (01:09:03.47)
All right, well, I think we’re done for this week. Terry, anything else you want to mention real quick?
terry (01:09:07.59)
Tucson, I think he did a lot of University of Arizona and some other stuff.
David Campbell (01:09:11.918)
Oh
terry (01:09:16.198)
Now we’ll just leave it at we own we know all brothers get along By the way rule number one though, it’s not there but when that ball no the catcher doesn’t take command and at the infielder always does in the same way like when there’s a pop -up and the Outfitter is coming in he if he could get it. He needs to yell right away It’s hard. I caught one game of my life in junior high and I’ll tell you it’s hard to go catch a pop -up with all that equipment on
David Campbell (01:09:42.766)
Yeah, and they have a much better angle coming at it from the other direction. So, all right, everybody, thank you so much for listening. Check out Terry’s newsletter and we wish you all a happy Mother’s Day weekend. We’ll catch you next week on Terry’s Talkin.