Bradley's Reviews > Fall; or, Dodge in Hell

Fall; or, Dodge in Hell by Neal Stephenson
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it was amazing
bookshelves: 2019-shelf, sci-fi, worldbuilding-sf, mindfuq

This is a very hard book to review, but one thing is absolutely true:

I'm absolutely blown away by this book.

Ameristan! Lol MOAB! lol

This is definitely one of Neal Stephenson's better books. Just for the ideas and the great twisting of several tales in one, I'm already looking forward to a glorious re-read. He does lead us down a few winding paths that eventually turn out to be VERY important to the whole, and I admit to laughing out loud several times when the important bits bit me on the butt. :)

All told, it's the hundreds of wonderful details, ideas, technological problems, and the nature of our world of Lies and Truth in the Miasma (Stephenson's term for the future of the Internet) that make this an extremely memorable book, but it's the depth of the themes that go well beyond the obvious Milton's Paradise Lost that make me grin like an idiot.

My favorite is the whole perception-as-reality by way of Philip K Dick, hitting all the big points AND even throwing the scholars a bone by setting up a fantastic Manichean Heresy (Real God and the Flawed God and the temperance of Sophia.) (And for you PKD fans, look no further than Divine Invasion.

The other obvious theme connecting it to Paradise Lost is actually a subversive red herring. There's a big twist to this that makes it a lot more like PKD, including the paranoia, the corruption, and the faulty memories.

I came into this kinda expecting a single viewpoint adventure like many old SFs that take on uploaded consciousnesses and/or Hell, but you know what? This is so much better. We have many viewpoints, great adventures, and very little actual Hell except in a (you brought this with you sense). Kinda awesome when you think about it. No cheap theatrics, only an in-depth issue revolving People doing what People always do. Character-driven, with a lot of added juice.

Like several ages of mythology run by high-speed processors in the ultimate game of Life (as an afterlife), skirting the edges of a technological singularity, and wrapping it all up with a reality-based hackathon by way of a Gamer's Ultimate Quest.

I think I see the point, here. For all of us future afterlifers, let's MAKE SURE THE GAME DESIGNERS retain control over it. Please? No one wants to live an (after)life CONTROLLED BY THE BEAN COUNTERS. :)

The book has some great mirroring going on, rooting itself in near-future meatspace with tons of corporate intrigue, funny/nasty worldbuilding that put the quality of Truth on trial. The whole SF of tackling perception-as-reality is taken to new heights and multiple threads that keep twining and intertwining in really great ways. And then it takes on HUGE significance in the digital realm. Nasty significance. :)

Lordy! The Moab disaster (in more ways than one) is the very thing that sparks the Heaven 2.0 disaster! I loved that! The whole mad-god theme is great! And perfectly in-line with regular corporate madness, too. :) Why shouldn't we bring all our usual messes into the afterlife? We are, after all, only human, even when some of us become gods, angels, or incarnations of DEATH. :) lol

I had such a fun time with this, I can't even begin... or rather, I have begun, but I could keep going on forever.

Like I said, it's a really hard one to review. :) It has a lot of great depth to it that is rather MORE surprising than I ever gave it credit for, and this is coming from an avowed fanboy of Stephenson. I definitely like it more than Seveneves and Reamde. I'd have to re-read Snow Crash and Diamond Age again to see where it ranks by those. :)

I will always have Anathem as my primary love, tho. :)

BUT I think I will have to nom this one for next year's Hugo. Just for its sheer audacity and richness. :)
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Reading Progress

January 10, 2019 – Shelved
January 10, 2019 – Shelved as: to-read
June 10, 2019 – Started Reading
June 12, 2019 – Shelved as: 2019-shelf
June 12, 2019 – Shelved as: sci-fi
June 12, 2019 – Shelved as: worldbuilding-sf
June 12, 2019 – Shelved as: mindfuq
June 12, 2019 – Finished Reading

Comments Showing 1-41 of 41 (41 new)

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Bradley I seriously can't wait to read this. :)


Jesse Kona I have been having trouble getting into a new book for a while now. This one grabbed me right away.


Bradley Good to hear!!


Lucy Canessa I couldn't agree more! Great review - GREAT BOOK! What a read!!!


Bradley I'm glad you loved it, too! :) I still think about this book. :)


message 6: by Phil (new) - added it

Phil Actually pretty different from Readme. I had thought I might want to go back and reread Readme first, but it's not that necessary. Possibly better even to (re)read Cryptonomicon first.

That said... I'm really not all that jazzed, and I'm at page 600. SnowCrash was my ride-or-die for years, until Cryptonomicon, and then I totally didn't get Anathem until I tried it again even more years later. Nowadays SnowCrash feels somewhat sophomoric in the rearview, or perhaps just nostalgic.

So who knows? Although this book seems to have already made its Seveneves-style jump/transition before two-thirds of the way through, I guess I'll see what happens next. You know what they say about Neal Stephenson's endings.


Bradley Sorry to hear that! I guess people don't care about (literal) worldbuilding much anymore. :) lol


message 8: by L. (new) - rated it 3 stars

L. A. This is my first Stephenson and I’m on page 500 and really involved. What would you recommend as a next great read of his?


Bradley My personal favorites are Anathem, Snow Crash, and Diamond Age, but others will probably give you other answers. He's consistently good. :)


message 10: by Chris (new)

Chris Sounds very crazy!


Bradley Crazy cool. :)


Martin Brochhaus Sounds like a Ready Player One that's actually good :)


Bradley It's really not about playing games, tho. At all. lol But if you do love blending of all the big ideas, this is your ticket. :)


message 14: by Mona (new) - added it

Mona Bradley, nice review. I recently read this too, and wasn’t sure how to review it either (or even rate it)..You point out a few things I missed, including the Manichean Heresy and the PKD connections. I am also a big Stephenson fan, although I didn’t like this as much as you did. I’m more of a “Seveneves” reader. Still, this was an interesting book.


message 15: by Bradley (last edited Jul 11, 2019 06:27AM) (new) - rated it 5 stars

Bradley I won't deny this book will not appeal to all readers, thanks to some of its subtle creativities and subversions, but it does welcome careful re-reads. :)

Win some, lose some. I remember really enjoying Anathem the first time but I absolutely LOVED it the second.


message 16: by Mona (new) - added it

Mona I just finished “Anathem” and liked it better than “Dodge”. Still, Stephenson is always fascinating, even at his worst. He’s better at his worst than most authors at their best, so while “Dodge” was not my favorite Stephenson, I did enjoy it. It seems Sophia was a myth of the Gnostics too. So he drew on all sorts of literary and mythic predecessors.


Bradley Oh yes, Sophia goes back to Zoroastrians, too. The personification of Wisdom and the Holy Ghost, mixed. The first breath of creation forming the first Word that created the world. :) Also, the Female principle later erased from the patriarchal religious state. :)

And yes, even his worst books are still better than most other author's magnum opus. :)


message 18: by Alex (new) - added it

Alex I'm only up to around 100 pages but all the legal jargon goes on forever concerning his will. A bit tiresome so far.


Bradley This isn't the full novel. lol it has a lot of interesting directions. I personally liked the will for what it hints at, but to each our own.


message 20: by Gerhard (new) - added it

Gerhard Fantastic review! Interesting comparisons to PKD, not a writer I'd automatically associate with NS.


Bradley Me either, but the combo worked well. :)


message 22: by Phil (new) - added it

Phil Sooooooo, there was an author interview I missed at the time, while I was avoiding spoilers before reading Fall. I may have to give this another re-read with close attention to whether meatspace is ITSELF a simulation (beyond self-selecting one's own Miasma/Moab reality bubble), and what may be implied about "turtles all the way down".

The other thing is, I apparently missed links to Baroque Cycle (heavy gold?). Anathem could underlay all of it, depending which books you think are up-wick of which other books...

Apropos of nothing, I had the thought that it's the gonzo "twist" setting up the endings of SnowCrash (babel/babble), and Anathem (origin and nature of the ship & HTW made real) and Seveneves (you know) which either just works or doesn't work for you in each case... and then you think the author either does or doesn't have a problem with endings.


Jesse Kona Phil, I’m pretty sure it is turtles all the way (or at least a long way) down, explaining Enoch Root. I’m not quite sure how the ship in Anathem fits in, but I am intrigued.


Bradley As much as I love the IDEA of trying to link all his books together in an Ian M. Banks or David Mitchell kind of way, there's VERY little evidence, thematic or otherwise, to go that route.

Of course, if Stephenson went ahead and wrote a novel that specifically reveals all those ties, I would be beyond amazed and flabbergasted and would worship him as a god.

But honestly? I don't see it. :)

Keeping within his individual books, however, I'm totally of the opinion that it's turtles all the way down. Holographic universes is a passion of mine so when I saw that explicitly (and implicitly, elsewhere) in Fall, I fell.


message 25: by Jorge (new)

Jorge Barbosa My next Stephenson novel, Anathem or Fall? You choose...


Bradley Always Anathem.

It's my personal favorite and it even hits my top ten books of all time. :)


message 27: by Jorge (new)

Jorge Barbosa I'll follow your suggestion then 😉


Jesse Kona Agreed. Anathem might be the best one.


Bradley Be sure to crack your philosophy texts. :)


message 30: by Phil (new) - added it

Phil Well, again per author's statements: Anathem stands apart (apert? heh) from thebother works Baroque&Cryptonomicon, and it's NOT explicitly "YT" from SnowCrash reappearing in DiamondAge. Still, one of the tribes at the end of Seveneves (no spoiler) was certainly reminiscent to me of the DiamondAge drummers...


message 31: by Phil (new) - added it

Phil *"the other", not thebother


Bradley Granted, there are similarities if you squint, but are these intentional or an artifact of an author naturally gravitating to reoccurring themes? :)


message 33: by Phil (new) - added it

Phil Oh, I'm sure you're right.

I wonder about another popular speculation, whether certain authors have attained enough popular success to "ignore" or overrule any and all editor suggestions...😮😲


message 34: by T (new) - rated it 1 star

T Gnarl Interesting that so many readers start out thinking this is great, but the whole thing just starts to die about 1/3 through. Then there is this review which says it's Stephenson's best book. I cannot reconcile this vast difference. I've read ALL of Stephenson's writing. This one is his worst effort.
Here's hoping there's something much better coming next. Either way, I'll read it.


Bradley It depends on what you're expecting. I'm a post-singularity SF lover and I'm totally into mythology of all stripes, not to mention poetry... so this tickled me to death.

I'm sorry that ya'll died.


Dennis (nee) Hearon Good review. I was somewhat less taken with it, but I agree that Anathem is far superior ( I also like Diamond Age an awful lot). I would rate this one on par with Cryptonomicon.


Bradley I'd put Cryptonomicon above this one, too. I think I'd put Fall right above Dodo, but Dodo is my least favorite.


Dennis (nee) Hearon Perhaps my complete lack of understanding of coding and computers in general detracted from my enjoyment of Cryptonomicon. But I completely agree about DODO. I DNF'd it !


Bradley Well, Cryptonomicon is way ahead of its time, or right in time for the spree of crypto ideas that led directly to the inception of bitcoin, et al. It was history on one level and hopeful adoption at another, but now it's REALITY. At least, it probably will be soon.

I'm really rather excited about reality. And now I'm curious as to whether I ought to re-read that book.


Dennis (nee) Hearon Hmm. Bitcoin is another concept that I perceive through a glass darkly ( i.e. completely mystified by the concept). If you reread, please let me know. Perhaps we can read together and you can explain it to me !


Bradley I'm curious to see if it holds up, too, but perhaps not right away. On the other hand, there are a lot easier ways to understand crypto. Youtube channels, etc, that are pretty simple. :) I think it was harder to introduce over twenty years ago when people were still odded-out about PGP. (Pretty Good Privacy)

Suffice to say, now that I know, I'm a huge believer. Not just for the security, but for the decentralized nature of it. No single failure point. And if you pick the right one, no gaming the money system. Inflation/deflation, etc. Not to mention smart contracts that ignore skin color. Think of a standardized loan system with clear rules that never touches on a hey-bro, help a bro out system. lol

Anyway. :)


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