Catholic Thought discussion

Just finished "finding sanctuary" by Abbot Christopher Jamison.

I found this book to be a very good read. The first half of the book was excellent; the final chapters slowed too much. The notion of building and outfitting our own sanctuary was very helpful in presenting direction aimed at cranking down the noise level which surrounds us.

The book was apparently prompted by a television show filmed at the Benedictine Abbey of Worth in Sussex, England. Father Christopher Jamison is the abbot of Worth. The television show was about five lay men who spent forty days and nights living in the monastery and following the Benedictine rule.

Using the monastic rule of St. Benedict Abbot Christopher applies several of the rule’s key concepts to our everyday world. His discussions of St. Benedict’s provisions for silence, in the first fifty pages, were very well done. The Benedictine concept of not having noise surround your head hit the five men involved in the TV show fairly hard. Abbot Christopher points out where people today have background music; monks have background silence. Starting with silence the entire stage is set for prayer, contemplation, meditation and obedience.

I would recommend this book to most people but I think especially for those being swallowed up by work and rushing. Ideally read the book and then attend a weekend retreat with some Benedictines. The book points us to practices that have aided men and women in spiritual development for over fifteen hundred years; I believe a slow read of it will pay dividends.

Just began working my way through “History of the Catholic Church” by James Hitchcock; currently on page 220, roughly about 1300.

When I first started reading I felt really good about the style of the book; short paragraphs and short statements about each topic. I felt I was making progress quickly and that made me feel good. But very quickly I began to thirst for more, and it is not there.

I really like what I have read but some of the topics deserve so much more. Dr. Hitchcock has taken 2,000 years of history and condensed it into slightly over 500 pages. A single volume is nice but I really wish he could go a little deeper in a number of areas.

One very nice aspect of his book is that he discusses church practices and some dogma. That gives Catholic readers some very real touchstones to reflect upon.

So far I would have to say it is a very good introduction and I hope someday he will put out the four volume set.

I would recommend his book; it is a quick and easy reference.

Thanks for recommending Finding Sanctuary! I'm creating a class on the very topic - creating our "inner sanctuary" in order to form a habit of prayer. I will definitely be reading this book! My class was inspired by St. Benedict.

Have you read the Church history book Triumph the Power and Glory of the Catholic Church by H. W. Crocker III? I purchased the ebook and have just scratched the surface.

I have the book; so far I have only gone through the section on Constantine. I am using it for reference in a class on early church history. The next topic I will take on will be the crusades; again, as support for class. I have enjoyed the portions I have read but have not gone deep enough to form an opinion.

My favorite history of the Catholic Church is five (soon to be six) volume set by Warren Carroll. Dr. Carroll is the founder of Christendom College. He is one who loves history and the Church.

I just finished reading St. Augustine's Confessions, translated by Frank Sheed. It's a really good translation and I highly recommend it if you could find one. I stumbled on Sheed's book at a used bookstore in Lubbock Texas. Are there any translations that someone could recommend of St. Augustine's City of God?

A.i.sanchez wrote: "I just finished reading St. Augustine's Confessions, translated by Frank Sheed. It's a really good translation and I highly recommend it if you could find one. I stumbled on Sheed's book at a used ..."

I have a hard copy edition 1993 Modern Library Edition, translated by Marcus Dods with an introduction by Thomas Merton. ISBN# 0-679-60087-6.

I also have a copy of The City of God in audio from Librivox. I enjoyed this to get me through my first pass.

I recently completed reading "Seeking God, the way of St. Benedict" by Esther de Waal ISBN# 0-8146-1388-8. I highly recommend this book.

About three years ago I read “The Way of Simplicity: The Cistercian Tradition” by Esther de Waal and I really enjoyed it; in fact I thought it was amazing. I was very impressed that someone not enrolled in the religious life could grasp, synthetize and clearly explain the deep level that those living the Rule of St. Benedict understand and practice simplicity in their daily lives.

Now that I have read “Seeking God: the Way of St. Benedict” by Esther de Waal; it is clear that Seeking God should have been my first read. I read one of the more focused books prior to reading the work that considers the entire Rule. Seeking God is the best book about the Rule of St. Benedict that I have encountered to date. The fact that it was written by a lay person is both amazing as well as helpful. It may even be proper since St. Benedict was a lay person and the Rule was originally written for the laity living in monastic communities.

She is able to view the Rule as an outsider and explore the interrelationships of the various chapters of the Rule. She has blended the thoughts of monks separated by centuries and teases out the commonalities of the thoughts they have expressed.

Many of the books written about the Rule of St. Benedict tend to focus in on various aspects; they try to hold up qualities as being vital or key to the proper functioning of the Rule within the monastic community. Various authors will say that silence is key, others that hospitality is the key, or stability or obedience are the real keys. Clearly, after reading Esther de Waal’s book, we see that the Rule, in its entirety, is the key. It was written to facilitate life while people are living in the close proximity of monastic life. If two or three chapters were deleted the balance and harmony of the guidelines would be disturbed and I would expect that the community would suffer. It appears that the strength of the Rule lies in the adoption of the entire Rule, not a cafeteria blend of certain sections at a given moment in time.

It is also clear that the Rule was written for use within a monastic community, any attempt to pick it up and apply it to the family or to an office environment will encounter severe difficulty. The Rule would possibly serve very well as a template to remind family members of primary considerations for a newly developed set of family guidelines for interaction internally as well as externally. I say newly developed because the interrelationships of qualities within the Rule express a dependency not only of the presence but the observance of the other qualities. So, listening can only occur if others honor the need for silence, members can only develop with community support, unequal distribution of material items can only occur without friction if there is understanding and acceptance among the members. There is much in the Rule that can be edited and rephrased for use within other social structures if we stay attentive to the need for balance.

In my reading of Seeking God I found her ability to relate and correlate topics helped facilitate my understanding. For example in chapter three, she relates listening to obedience and the resulting action to love; therefore the listening is tied to the willingness to act. Why try to hear if we are not prepared to have what we hear elicit a response. Further the action is connected to obedience but obedience is meaningless if it occurs amongst complaining and not out of love. She ties all of these together very nicely in a very understandable fashion.

I think her analogy for the ladder on page 46 creates some great images; the ladder firmly planted with the sides representing body and soul, the ladder is pulling the sides (body and soul) together. How better to depict balance? But also in chapter 6 we see the ladder analogies again as she relates the qualities of balance, proportion and harmony. These broader explanations of the Rule and its provisions have helped me immensely.

Throughout the book she is relating multiple principles from the Rule and bonding them together to demonstrate the continuity of the entire rule. Her ability to demonstrate the mutual support of the various provisions of the Rule presents vibrant and interrelated picture of it.

Her use of a “thoughts and prayers” section is unique; I began to look forward to it as almost a mini-rewards section. Another very enjoyable thing about her writing style is her use of the notes section at the end of each chapter; I found them very informative. Plenty of authors use note sections but her notes were almost conversational; not only identifying the origin of a statement but also commenting about it and providing additional reading links.

As she finishes the book with a section on prayer, St. Benedict’s highest priority, she continues to emphasize the biblical roots of the Rule. This was something that she managed to point to throughout the book. It is helpful to see how grounded in the word of God St. Benedict was. I believe that Ms. de Waal pointed out the biblical roots more frequently than any other author I have read. Finding that even if a portion of the Rule is not a direct quote, the wording is steeped in biblical passages was very reassuring.

Again, I highly recommend this book to anyone interested in Benedictine spirituality.

"Politicizing the Bible" by Hahn and Wiker. Recently released after a looooooong wait. Clocking in at 566 pages of text, this one will take a while. Hoping to knock off a section or two a day (made it through about 80 pages so far). My appetite was whetted in a class I took with Dr. Hahn a few years back. Looking forward to working through this. Hope you'll do it with me -- an important book.

http://www.amazon.com/Politicizing-Bi...

Richard wrote: ""Politicizing the Bible" by Hahn and Wiker. Recently released after a looooooong wait. Clocking in at 566 pages of text, this one will take a while. Hoping to knock off a section or two a day (mad..."

I am reading this as well. In to it about as far as you are and finding it Good; but a slow thoughtful read.

Look forward to comparing notes.

I continue working my way through "Politicizing the Bible"; now on page 285 - just about to start Thomas Hobbes. Chapter 7 on Descartes has proven the most difficult for me. In the prior chapters the authors were able to demonstrate the desire and process used by the subject of their chapter to politicize scripture.

The prior discussions of Marsilius of Padua, William of Ockham, Wycliffe, Machiavelli, Luther, and Henry VIII all tied back to their treatment of scripture very well. However, Descartes did not tie into scripture very well in my mind. His philosophy will impact religious thinking in the future but did not seem concerned with an attempt to use scripture.

I will read on an perhaps revisit chapter 7.

I welcome other thoughts on these chapters.

I'm reading the Audible version of The Confessions of St. Augustine, narrated by Simon Vance. Not sure who's translation it is, though. I'm also simultaneously listening to a Great Courses series on The Confessions, and it's really enriching the experience. I recommend it!

Kevin M. Gunn wrote: "I'm reading the Audible version of The Confessions of St. Augustine, narrated by Simon Vance. Not sure who's translation it is, though. I'm also simultaneously listening to a Great Courses series..."

Welcome Kevin,

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the Confessions twice. I am in the process of doing a very similar thing with the Summa of St. Thomas. I use the Kindle text to speech feature while following along on the screen. It keeps me moving.

What else are you enjoying?

Brenda {Write From Your Heart ♥} wrote: "I'm currently reading . I'm a huge lover of Catholic Apologetics so this is a pleasan..."

I've had that problem multiple times since I tend to read obscure works that are out of print. There is an add book/edition function which I've probably made too much use of.

Carlos wrote: "I'm currently reading:


I'm almost done with it and can recommend it as an excellent primer in comparative theology."

Oh now this is unique but I have the same book on my to-read list. It was public domain so a free download too.

I'm working through Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph. When I visited the Holy Land a couple years ago, we started in Jordan and visited Wadi Rumm which is one of the places that Lawrence visited during the war, and was a shooting location for Lawrence of Arabia.

i>Joseph wrote: "I'm working through Seven Pillars of Wisdom: A Triumph. When I visited the Holy Land a couple years ago, we started in Jordan and visited Wadi Rumm which is one of the places that Law..."

Wow you got to visit the Holy Land? That must have been a wonderful trip. Happy you had the chance to do that. I just got by Roger Collins. It's a history of the Papacy. Looking forward to reading that.

Brenda {Write From Your Heart ♥} wrote: "I'm currently reading several books, but the main ones I'm reading are and . They're both rather interesting so far, but I..."

Honestly Brenda I think it's good to have a wide variety of interests in reading. Knowledge is always good.

currently reading "Theology and Sanity" by F.J. Sheed. Here's a cool quote about Catholic Thought in a sense.

"The doctrine of the Blessed Trinity means that the Divine Nature is wholly expressed as Thinker, wholly expressed as the Thinker's Thought of Himself, wholly expressed as Love. Remaining the One identical nature which because it is infinite cannot be repeated, or shared, or possessed in part but only totally, it is owned by Three Persons. It is an infinite, rational nature in which-- to repeat our definition of person-- there are three centers of attribution: an infinite principle of operation in which there are three operators. This, we have seen, is what the doctrine means. But does this mean anything?" [Sheed. Theology and Sanity. 7th printing. Ch.8 part I: "Some Further Precisions." (pg.85). NY: Sheed & Ward, 1964].

Ok I feel like a dummy here, can someone explain this to me a little bit more? :) I'd appreciate it.The One Thing Is Three: How the Most Holy Trinity Explains Everything

Michelle, that's a tough one for me. I'm not great on theology. The only thing I can think of is that the Trinity is such a mystery that pondering it takes one into the infinite.

This is gonna be a kinda lengthy reply but I found this info on a Catholic website. Hope it helps and doesn't confuse you more Michele.
The concept of the Trinity is one of the great mysteries of the Bible. Romans 11:34 says, "Who among us can know the mind of the Lord?" God's character is so enormous that we, with our limited minds, cannot comprehend all that he is.

The Bible is clear that God is three-in-one: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (see Matthew 28:18-20). The three parts are separate personalities. And yet together, they form one being: God.

We can try to explain the Trinity with analogies and illustrations, but even these come up short, because God is so great, no illustration really does him justice.

For instance, look at an egg, and its three separate but equal parts—yolk, white and shell. Each has its own identity and purpose, and yet all three make up something more. Take away one of the three parts, and it's no longer an egg.

Now look at yourself. You probably have three names: a first name, a middle name and a last name. Standing alone, each of those three names represents you, but none of the three names alone represents your whole name. Only all three names together can do that.

Who do you pray to? God the Father. In Matthew 6:6, Jesus says, "But when you pray, … pray to your Father, who is unseen." Then Jesus went on to tell us how to pray, starting out with the words, "Our Father in heaven … "

You also asked about the roles of all three persons of the Trinity. Here's a brief, though not complete, look:
• God the Father's role is to generate things. Things originate with him and flow from him. God the Father is equal with the Son and the Holy Spirit, but things start with him. The Father sent both the Son (John 3:16-17) and Holy Spirit (John 14:26) into the world.
• God the Son's role is to pay for our sins with his blood, which he did on the cross (Romans 5:9). The Son also acts as a lawyer for us before God, acting as a "mediator" between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5), and speaking "to the Father in our defense" (1 John 2:1).
• God the Holy Spirit has many roles. The Spirit helps us pray (Romans 8:26-27). He gives us new life (John 3:3-6). He is our Comforter, and he helps us understand God's word (John 14:26). He lifts up Christ (John 15:26). He convicts us of sin (John 16:7-11). He helps us to live holy lives (Romans 15:16). He gives us love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23). He helps us share our faith (Acts 1:8). And he lives inside us (Romans 8:11).

These things are just a beginning. We can't fully "define" God, or the Trinity. But that's what's so cool about God. He's so awesome, powerful and inexplicable, that we can't define him. Nor would we want to. He just leaves us looking to him with wonder and awe.

Michele wrote: "currently reading "Theology and Sanity" by F.J. Sheed. Here's a cool quote about Catholic Thought in a sense.

"The doctrine of the Blessed Trinity means that the Divine Nature is wholly expressed ..."

You are off to a good start with Frank Sheed. When you finish that you may want read "Introduction to Christianity" by Pope Benedict written when he was still a Cardinal. I have heard that a used copy of this started Scott Hahn's journey to Catholicism.

I wish I could explain the Trinity but that is well beyond me. Enjoy your quest.

Manny wrote: "...the Trinity is such a mystery that pondering it takes one into the infinite."

I accept that answer :) thanks for sharing

The Spirit of the LiturgyMike wrote:
"The doctrine of the Blessed Trinity means that the Divine Nature is wholly expressed..."

I attempted Intro to Christianity and got through some of it but now I'm reading his "Spirit of the Liturgy" book...

Michele,

Do you get the EWTN network on your tv? Sometimes they have Fulton Sheen programs on that you might enjoy.

Doreen wrote: "...The concept of the Trinity is one of the great mysteries..."

I love lengthy/ thorough replies, and particularly your many cool examples plus scriptural points :)

I like this reference especially, which I looked up:

"Matthew 28:[16] And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. [17] And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. [18] And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. [19] Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world."

That quote happens to be from the Douay-Rheims Bible, which uses the terms "Holy Ghost" which reminds me of the latest episode of "Truth in the Heart" (Sisters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist's show on E.W.T.N.-- the "Eternal Word Television Network")...Sr. Teresa Benedicta was receiving letters from kids, and one asked why the term "Ghost" is sometimes used, because people think of the spooky "ghost" of a corpse then... but the sister talked about how the biblical term refers to one's spirit... and in the case of Christ, he died but he rose from the dead, so is now eternally alive in His glorified body, with the Holy Spirit always united with Him, and shared with the disciples (us)... it's comforting that Jesus will be with us always along with his Holy Spirit and his Heavenly Father hearing all prayers... no wonder the Holy Spirit is called "The Comforter" as well :D

I am enjoying my quest! Thanks for all the active, joyful participants :)

You know ironically Michele but in my parish that I've been telling you about we always the Holy Ghost.

that term makes perfect sense when we understand it properly like the Sister explained...it's not out of date... Holy Ghost/ Holy Spirit... each a fine way to say it...(i'm guessing you were writing "we always --SAY--the Holy Ghost"...is that true?)

Oh my goodness yess that's what I meant Michele. Sometimes when I'm typing I have this conversation going on in my head of what I want to say but type too fast and didn't check before I posted. Senior moment here.

it's ok hehe, i wrote "proplerly" - just now edited it ;-)

Come Holy Ghost fill the hearts of your faithful and kindle in them the fire of Your Love!...amen.

Michele wrote: "Manny wrote: "...the Trinity is such a mystery that pondering it takes one into the infinite."

I accept that answer :) thanks for sharing"

Your welcome. It just came to me at the point of writing. Must have been the Holy Spirit. :)

Just began The Song at the Scaffold. I think I will end up loving it.

I love Alyosha! I didn't read The Brothers from cover to cover, I just skipped around reading the chapters with Alyosha in them for sure... it's like I was following him around as his disciple...

Carlos wrote: "I've started reading:

Russia and the Universal Church

and I'm thoroughly enjoying it! Vladimir Soloviev was a Russian Orthodox mystic who converted to Catholicism and spent his li..."

I didn't know there was a real person inspiration for Alysha. Thanks for the info. The Brothers Karamazov is one of the greatest novels ever written.

Carlos wrote: "Dhanaraj wrote: "Just began The Song at the Scaffold.

I have this book on my to-read list and am looking forward to seeing the old black and white movie about these heroic martyrs."

It was a really good novel that speaks of the destruction that can occur when man decided to be the judge of his own actions and Reason becomes the supreme ruler (French Revolution). It also speaks of the working of God's mystery in the characters of the condemned nuns who show extraordinary courage and they do it because their center of being is nothing human but Divine.

Here is my review if in case you want to look at it: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...

Dhanaraj wrote: "Carlos wrote: "Dhanaraj wrote: "Just began The Song at the Scaffold.

I have this book on my to-read list and am looking forward to seeing the old black and white movie about these ..."

You know Dhanaraj I've been getting some books to read off your read list. Hope you don't mind but you've got some excellent choices. Hoping you're doing well and having a great day.

Although I'm not currently reading this I just purchased by John W. O'Malley S.J.(no photo). Really looking forward to getting into this book. Hope all are well.

I'm working through Tolkien's translation of Beowulf. First prose translation I've ever read, though he preserved a very poetic feel.

Carlos wrote: "Tomorrow I begin reading:

"

I read it and became hooked on his series. I hope you will post some of your thoughts.

Oh this reminds me I had a recent post on my blog on some top Catholic novels. Here is the link if you are interested:
http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.c...

Despite being limited in my reading because I've been really sick I just started by George Weigel. It's really a fasinating look at Saint John Paul II and I am enjoying every bit of it.

Anything by George Weigel is probably a good read Doreen. Hope you feel better.

Actually got much worse overnight Carlos. Had hubby take me to Urgent Care and it appears I do have pneumonia like I thought. Now at least I have the proper meds to get better.

Carlos wrote: "In my prayers, D!"

Thanks Carlos.

My wife had pneumonia last year and it really knocked her out. She was actually admitted to the hopsital and stayed three nights if I remember correctly. So be on top of it Doreen and if you don't improve go to the ER. My personal experience with an Urgent Care was not great.

Ya Manny this happened to me before in 1995. Think a fresh cup of tea and my John Paul II book will make me feel a little better.

I have finished “Introduction to the Prophets” by Thomas L. Leclerc, MS.
ISBN: 978-0-8091-4492-1

It was wonderful; informative and easy to read. I highly recommend this book to anyone who desires to learn more about the Old Testament prophets. At one time I was not all that interested in the prophets, but I signed up for a class on the prophets; this book was one of the required texts. The class and this text opened my eyes to the world of the prophets, a world that everyone should visit. The prophets wrote long before the birth of Christ but many of them were introducing Him, making the path straight for Him.

Every week we hear the first reading and depending upon which lectionary is being used the chances are very high that one of the prophets will be making an appearance. After reading Leclerc those first readings will have a context.

Today Social Justice is a frequent topic, the prophets were serving as a conscience to Jewish society about the same issues we face today. Read the first ten pages of any big city newspaper, which is generally where most of the bad things are reported, then read one of the prophets. It is amazing; it almost appears as if someone sent an advance copy back in time. These prophets were the early crusaders against poverty, political corruption, starvation, care of the weak and so on. Their message should be read slowly and with comprehension; Leclerc’s book will foster that comprehension.

I should also mention that in studying the prophets I also used the Navarre study Bible for the prophets, both major and minor. Working my way through that commentary was like chatting about the prophets with an old friend. If you can’t take a class get Fr. Leclerc’s book and both of the Navarre OT prophets.

Thanks for the info Mike! I have the Ignatius Study Bible on my cell. Do you think it's worth getting the Navarre as well?

I think Ignatius is good for the NT but to the best of my knowledge they have not issued their OT version yet.

While I love the Navarre Bible Study, it is very big. The OT is covered in seven volumes hardcover. This quickly becomes expensive. It is worth every penny in my mind because it is the best I have seen.

A good alternative would be the Catholic Study Bible, Second Edition, from Oxford Press. This has both Old and New Testament in a single volume. They improved the commentary on the OT as compared to the first Edition, but as compared to Navarre it is still slimmed down.

It took me five years to acquire the seven OT volumes and the three NT volumes but it was worth the wait.

Carlos wrote: "Currently reading:
"

Very nice Carlos!