Building a SciFi/Fantasy Library discussion

I am looking for some names of feminist cyberpunk authors like Marge Piercy, Lyda Morehouse, Pat Cadigan, Lisa Mason and Melissa Scott. I'd also like to know good works by them that I could use for my academic research on them. My Ph.D. topic is on feminist cyberpunk.

Chris Moriarty's Spin State and Spin Control
Hillary Jordan's When She Woke (maybe? isn't quite cyberpunk)
Kristine Smith's Code of Conduct series
Ann Aguirre's Grimspace series
Tanith Lee's The Silver Metal Lover (again maybe, not sure if it's cyberpunk and not even sure if it's feminist, it's been a while).
Try checking out the group "Readers Advisory for All." They're really good at these kind of recommendations.

Thanks for the recos. I'll check the books and the group... :)

God's War
Infidel
Rapture

More bugpunk than cyberpunk but it should fill your cyberpunk cravings. Very adult. Very feminist. Very good.

Jed wrote: "God's War
Infidel
Rapture

More bugpunk than cyberpunk but it should fill your cyberpunk cravings. Very adult. Very feminist. Very good."

What is bugpunk? Haven't heard of it... Is it filled with bugs/aliens?

Is Spin State feminist? And Grimspace? The summary doesn't make it clear...

It's a far, far future story set on a planet where insects are part of the technological ecology. Not so easy to explain, please take a look at the books. They are among my favorites of the last decade.


Lit Bug wrote: "Jed wrote: "God's War
Infidel
Rapture

More bugpunk than cyberpunk but it should fill your cyberpunk cravings. Very adult. Very feminist. Very good."

What is bugpunk? Haven't heard of it... Is it ..."

Spin State is about a technologically enhanced female soldier. Most of the tension is more about issues of class, and the technological have and have nots, rather than issues of gender. So I guess it might not be explicitly feminist, although there are some issues of sexual ownership, that if I recall correctly, do fall along gender lines. (And I think the mining community had strict gender roles.) One might call it feminist simply because many of the prime movers and shakers are women, but I can see that might not meet your criteria.

Grimspace is about a female pilot. I can't recall if her advantages are technological or genetic, perhaps technologically enhanced genetics? I can't remember, other than having a female protagonist, how explicitly gender issues are addressed. Sorry.

Okay, I'll see if I can get a copy for a quick read. Thanks for the recos though. Keep on suggesting works, I don't know of these works.

Chris Moriarty actually has a discussion about cyberpunk on her website which might be of interest to you:
http://www.chrismoriartybooks.com/cyb...

I read the article on the above link, and it was very informative. Do send me whatever links you can, I'm thankful for your frequent responses. Any idea if any books of Moriarty and Tiptree fit the bill of feminist cyberpunk?

Tiptree is pre-cyberpunk, but William Gibson, IIRC, cites her as a formative influence. I'd definitely suggest taking a look at her story "The Girl Who Was Plugged In."

Alas, I haven't read anything I can think of that I'd describe as both feminist and cyberpunk, particularly if you're using a fairly narrow definition of cyberpunk. . . but from what I've heard about it, you might want to check out Justina Robson's Keeping It Real.

Elizabeth Bear's Hammered might be worth a look too; I wouldn't say it's tremendously focused on being either cyberpunk or feminist, but it is definitely informed by both of those movements.

Thanks... I do have a few titles that come under it, and will check those you mentioned..

Oh! and Robson's Silver Screen deals with weight issues!

I think it may not be cyberpunk but it's feminist and interesting: Suzette Haden Elgin's trilogy Native Tongue, Judas Rose and Earthsong.


Lit Bug wrote: "I am looking for some names of feminist cyberpunk authors like Marge Piercy, Lyda Morehouse, Pat Cadigan, Lisa Mason and Melissa Scott. I'd also like to know good works by them that I could use for..."

Thanks. Am open to all suggestions because often unlikely things throw up pretty good ideas :)

Lorena wrote: "I think it may not be cyberpunk but it's feminist and interesting: Suzette Haden Elgin's trilogy Native Tongue, Judas Rose and Earthsong."

They don't look cyberpunk, but definitely look interesting.

Yes, they don't but I'd like to read them someday.

Would Don't Call It "Virtual" by Beth Elliott fall into the type of books you want?

You should read this if someone hasn't already suggested it. I love cyberpunk, but this is a nice counterpoint to any argument that there's real feminism in the roots of the movement, etc.

http://www.depauw.edu/sfs/backissues/...

It hardly seemed like a counterpoint - more like a strawman. Who made the argument that there _was_ feminism in the roots of cyberpunk?

Yeah, I think the original premise is that there wasn't much feminism in cyberpunk and that's why Lit Bug is looking for some help in finding some cyberpunk that IS feminist.

Mawgojzeta wrote: "Would Don't Call It "Virtual" by Beth Elliott fall into the type of books you want?"

I think, by GR's description, it is not pure SF - more like sci-fi and fantasy mixed - so even if it fits my theme, I'm afraid I won't be able to include it in my research - thanks still for the recommendation :)

I have read the article a few months ago, and the main thing Gibson seems to be doing is celebrating patriarchy and American heroism - as per the article. It is unfair of me to make such a comment without reading Gibson, nor am I prejudicing myself against him without giving him a few reads and analyzing him properly - but I did find his political positioning - the championing of Americans and the contemporary xenophobia against the technologically adept Japanese - very reminiscent of the Great American Dream - a façade, a self-fooling philosophy (with due respect to all Americans, it did paralyze and kill emotionally many Americans who blindly believed in it).

I wonder what made him reduce women characters from Russ' amazing Jael (after all, she was doing to men what men have been doing to women all these thousands of years - using them) to a side character like Molly - she was strong, but lacking any political awareness, as the article writer Nicola argues - I cannot digest that part of cyberpunk - it resounds not only male-oriented narcissism, but also encouraging of patriarchy - just the way it pits heroic American smart loners against 'bad' Japanese multi-nationals. I wonder what Gibson would say today about his early classic works.

I imagine Gibson would say "see Pattern Recognition and sequels", which all have a strong female protagonist. I understand the likening of cyberpunk (especially Gibson's) to Cowboy culture, and the criticism for it, but claiming that he's taken Russ' character and "reduced" her is another straw man - we only have Nixon's word, in the first place, that there's any relationship between them.

And it always seems a little unlikely to me that a non-American would be consciously championing the Great American Dream.

btw, Pat Cadigan is considered one of the leading writers of cyberpunk, and I find it odd that Nixon doesn't even mention her except to admit she has a couple of strong female characters. If you're going to argue that there's no feminism in cyberpunk, shouldn't you at least analyze what the female writers in the genre are doing?

I think she did mention Cadigan - and I too did mention that it was wrong for me to be mauling Gibson solely on one writer's words. I was only wondering why he didn't infuse his women characters with that political consciousness as he did with his male characters. How wonderful would it have been if both males and females in his work had been politically charged!

Am not championing the Dream, nor am I disparaging it either - I see it in a historical context, where it was both understandable yet clearly fallible in retrospect. Being an outsider, not having seen the consequences of it, and taking my cue only from literature and infrequent incursions into American history, I am not fit to evaluate it, but I do have a fair idea about it. I am aware of the repercussions it had on families that could not survive its enthusiasm regarding the Dream and lived to see its piteous downfall with their own downfall.

She referred to Cadigan in the 9th para, but only fleetingly - she seemed focused on Gibson and Sterling for most part.

I suspect that Derek was referring to Gibson when he said, "And it always seems a little unlikely to me that a non-American would be consciously championing the Great American Dream."

Lit Bug wrote: "I think she did mention Cadigan ..."

She did. I said that. But Cadigan was only mentioned to say that she had a couple of strong female characters, and I'm saying that one can't properly argue about the failure of cyberpunk to address feminist issues and not look at what the primary female author of the genre has done. Cadigan may well not have done any better - I've only read one of hers and don't recall it being in any sense feminist. I just feel that Nixon is being very selective with her data.

Nixon sets up a strawman saying that cyberpunk is betraying feminism, when it has never aimed to be feminist - or, imo, political (if she thinks that Gibson's bad guys are the "Japanese megacorporations" she's completely missed the point: while they mostly have Japanese names, they're trans-national, and they're mostly not really "bad guys", they're just a force of nature). Sure, it's about the future-modern Cowboy - I won't argue with her there - but that's an old tradition, just like Space Opera of the 40s and 50s (interestingly, there's a lot more feminism in modern Space Opera).

I not only don't believe any form of fiction needs to be political, I prefer my fiction to stay away from politics.

And yes, it was Gibson I referred to. I don't disagree with Nixon that much of his work echoes the American Dream - I just doubt that that was his conscious purpose.

I didn't get the American Dream part with ref to Gibson :( Sould somebody explain?

Gibson was born in the United States but moved to Canada in 1968(?) to avoid the Vietnam War draft and then became a Canadian citizen (although I read somewhere that he has dual citizenship, which I didn't think the US allowed). So although one can argue as a born American that his American values may be intrinsic, one can also argue that as an expat his values might be the polar opposite.

You said "...I did find his political positioning - the championing of Americans and the contemporary xenophobia against the technologically adept Japanese - very reminiscent of the Great American Dream", and I said that I very much doubt it was conscious.

The US has allowed dual citizenship for many years now.

I guess it might not be conscious - it reminded me of the Dream - but not sure what Gibson felt!

Try Charles Stross' "Merchant Princes" books.

Dale wrote: "Try Charles Stross' "Merchant Princes" books."

Thanks. Will do so...

I'm afraid the series is SF-Fantasy, and not pure SF as I want - most probably I won't be able to include them, but thanks anyway, they are really interesting!

I have a cyberpunk novelette that has a very strong female lead. I am a moderate feminist. Let me know via a PM if you'd like to read it for your research.

Hi Lit Bug, awesome phd thesis! Aside from fiction, I am curious of theoretical works you are coming from? Are you familiar with Donna Haraway And her cyborg manifesto? I am sure as a professor of feminism AND Technoscience, what she has to say may assist you!

Jonathan wrote: "Hi Lit Bug, awesome phd thesis! Aside from fiction, I am curious of theoretical works you are coming from? Are you familiar with Donna Haraway And her cyborg manifesto? I am sure as a professor of ..."

Yes, I have read it closely a number of times, and how difficult it is!!!

I cannot do a thesis without referring to Haraway, right?

Lit Bug wrote: "Jonathan wrote: "Hi Lit Bug, awesome phd thesis! Aside from fiction, I am curious of theoretical works you are coming from? Are you familiar with Donna Haraway And her cyborg manifesto? I am sure a..."

Well, good luck then! :)