How community can give you opportunities

- So you go to art school. - Yep. - And was that in New York? - Yeah. So I went to Purchase, which is a state university, 'cause this is also related to my father. When I was in 12th grade, my father's stores closed. They went bankrupt because Barnes and Noble came around the corner. So he had no money. They went bankrupt. I had to go to state school. So I went to state school. It was actually really good, and I went for painting, and then I switched, right away, to graphic design 'cause I liked it much better. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, and I graduated graphic, and I even was a graphic designer for a few years. - Yeah. - So I worked in, actually the funny thought is I used to work at Pottery Barn as their in-house graphic designer. - Really? - Yeah. It was really, yeah, and I did that for a while, and then I worked- - Did you enjoy it? - I loved the team, I worked with. I loved the team. One of my friends was the window designer. I learned all about window design. - Okay. - That was really cool. It was back when I was just a junior designer, and back then I was, literally, waxing signs. You remember? I don't even remember wax. - No, I was on the cusp of doing boards and all that stuff. - Yeah. So I did all that stuff. So I was doing, kind of, stuff I didn't really like doing. - Yeah. - And then I went from there to, so I went to play, I was an art director of a financial magazine. Didn't like that. Then I joined a studio. The studio that is now called "Corey Nash McPherson", it was "Corey and Company", which is a very well known Boston firm, and when I joined them, they'd just opened the New York office. So I worked there for a few years, and that's where I learned my chops and amazing people. I realized pretty quickly, that I was never going to be a great designer. Like I was very involved in AIGA at that point. So I joined the AIGA I was on. Back then they had women in. So now, feminism is big. - Yeah. - Back then it was big too, and I joined Women in Design, it's what was called a special interest group, and I ran that, I ran the New York special interest group of Women in Design. And through that, I met all these amazing designers. They were so talented, and I was like, "I am not that talented". - AIGA is the leading professional design organization in the US. It was founded in New York City over a hundred years ago, and for many, including myself, it has greatly impacted, if not altered, my career in a positive way, and not only do I love that Emily was a member. In fact, it's ultimately the reason we met, she once again demonstrates this understanding of her reality, embraces it, and pivots. So, okay. So let me back up a little bit. That, in some ways, was discouraging. - Yeah. - Okay. - Well, no, I don't know if it was discouraging. It was empowering. I feel like it was an aha moment. Like I am ambitious, and I want to be great, and I wasn't going to be great. And it wasn't scary, it was a realization - Okay. - that I was like, "Okay", and I was young enough to be able to pivot quickly. - Yeah. - And I'm not afraid of change. I've never been afraid of change. I'm sort of a risk taker. So I was like, "Okay, what does that mean?" I love design, so to me, that was the most saddening. - So that was the connection. - Yeah, and that was the scary part. I didn't want to leave design, so that would scare me if I were to leave design, 'cause I love design. I love designers, they're all my friends. My heart belongs there. - So, traditionally in this situation, people would shift to being like an account manager or something. - Yeah. - So what was your next step? - So that was sort of, so back when I started my career, in the design world, there wasn't really a business person. So there wasn't really account managers in design. There were more account managers in advertising, and they weren't. So I just, literally, I asked a bunch of my friends, "What should I do?", and everybody was like, "You're really good with clients. You're really good at managing people. You're super organized. People love you. You're really just good at wrangling everything", and I'm like, "What does that mean?", and so I just, literally, in one week, went to like seven design firms in New York, and said, "Hey, I have these skills. I'm a good writer. I'm fearless about negotiating. Is there a job? Can I?" And they all wanted to hire me, and it wasn't 'cause I was great. It was just because no one else had done. So back then it was just a lot of designers. No, there wasn't project managers. - And It felt like too, that's something, typically, that designers don't want to do. - Yeah. Exactly. And because I knew design, it was like a natural path for me. So I knew how to talk about design. I could talk to designers, but then I can also talk to clients. So it worked out really well, and so, because I'm driven by money, I took the highest paid salary and I ran the studio for seven years, and I started when they were five people and I grew them to 50, and I did everything but design. - Wow. - I hired everybody. I managed the clients, and I managed the project managers, and we moved, physically, twice. I have a lot of that experience, but because AIGA is the whole world is very incestuous. Everybody knows everybody else. - Yeah. - And because I was very active in AIGA, such an interesting, I forget about this time, within two years, while I was at this design firm, the word spread that, "Hey there's this woman out there who loves design but knows the business end", and so people would call me and say, "Can you write my proposal?" So I ended up getting a lot of freelance business. - Wow. - On the side. So I was working like 80 hour weeks. - I was about to say, you didn't sleep. - Yeah, I didn't sleep. Yeah, I was single, I didn't have kids, I was like, "Yeah", and I loved it. And I was working with, at the time, really famous designers. My very first first client was Louise, sorry, not Louise. It was Lloyd Ziff. - Wow. - I don't know if you know Lloyd, but he was my very first client. - That's great. - And because I worked with Lloyd, I got all these amazing other designers who were all friends with Lloyd, and I happened to get into an niche of top-level design firms. So I end up getting Louise Fili, and all these other clients - She's wonderful. that have been with me for years. All of my clients, like I actually work with the nicest. There's not one asshole in the bunch. They might all have personality quirks, but we all do. Right? - Yeah, absolutely. - But I love my clients. It's like I have the best job in the world. I keep telling people this. I get to be part of creating great work, but I don't do it myself, but I get to see them grow and work with just amazing people. - Well, it sounds like to me, the key here is that you are truly in what we call, your genius. So at Rule29, we try to create opportunities for our team to be most often in their genius versus not, and it sounds like you're in your genius. - Yeah. - That is what you love. - Yeah. - You're good at it. You're confident in it. - Yeah. - So that's fantastic. - And it feels so good to do something you love. Right? - Yeah. - So many of us are trapped in jobs that we don't like, and I try to help my clients get to that place, because I know what it feels like to be in that what you call "the genius". It feels awesome. - Yeah. - And I love what I do, and I love seeing the impact of what I do. And this is why I wrote that book also is I really think how we behave reflects on our industry. That's why I'm friends with people like you. I really want to be friends with people that care about where our industry's going. - Yeah, I thank you for that. - Yeah, and that we are practicing good ethical behaviors, and not undermining our value. - Yeah. - Cause there's a few out there that are just hurting our profession by doing whatever work for free. - Yeah.