It was July 30, the last day of the NHL’s exhibition schedule, and I was sitting inside Scotiabank Arena trying to come up with story ideas for the looming playoffs when this one came to me: What if I reached out to some friends and sources from around the hockey world and asked them to join me in a group text for a playoff game?
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The idea was simple: Find a handful of people who look at the game in different ways (ideally a general manager, a coach, a skills coach, a strength coach and a player), introduce them, and have them talk shop in real time.
The execution, I knew, would be a little more complicated. Their schedules would have to align for the same game, they would all need to be candid for it to work, and they would have to understand that I’m going to publish everything they say. Nothing could be off the record.
Two weeks later I had five willing participants. They were:
- Chicago Steel general manager Ryan Hardy. Hardy has built arguably junior hockey’s best program and pulls top talent into the USHL. He was the first person I reached out to. He texted me back immediately. “Ya I’m in – give me a few days though!” read the message and an attached photo of him lying in a hospital bed shortly after shoulder surgery.
- Skills coach Nick Quinn of Power Edge Pro (PEP). I don’t want to pump their tires too much but PEP is probably hockey’s leading skills consultancy. They work closely with many of the game’s stars, including Connor McDavid, Taylor Hall, John Tavares, Mat Barzal and the Hughes brothers. Quinn’s focus is primarily with their prospects, with clients that include top 2020 draftees Quinton Byfield, Cole Perfetti and Jamie Drysdale, as well as some potential future first overall picks in Shane Wright (2022), Connor Bedard (2023) and Adam Fantilli (2023).
- Strength and conditioning coach Dante Martella. Martella works alongside renowned strength coach Matt Nichol. He’s the guy who players like Tyler Seguin, Darnell Nurse, Tom Wilson, and Jordan Binnington — among many others — turn to each summer for their training or rehab. He and Nichol work with athletes at the top of virtually every professional sport. He’s also a childhood friend of mine and the leader of the Toronto Trash Pandas, my below-average beer league team.
- Nick Fohr, associate coach with USA Hockey’s national development program. Fohr has coached the NTDP’s U17 and U18 teams domestically and internationally for a decade now. You name an American NHL star (the Hughes brothers, Brady Tkachuk, Dylan Larkin, Jack Eichel), Fohr has probably coached them.
- Saint John Sea Dogs assistant coach Stefan Legein. Legein has been an assistant with the Sea Dogs for the last two seasons. Before that, he was a 37th-overall pick of the Columbus Blue Jackets in the 2007 NHL Draft, a gold medalist with Team Canada at the 2008 world juniors, and a professional player for nearly a decade.
Each of them carved out time to watch Game 1 between Philadelphia Flyers and the Montreal Canadiens with me on Wednesday, Aug. 12.
Note: The conversation that follows has been lightly edited for spelling, clarity and concision — and to add game-specific details and videos whenever it discussed a play or player.
Scott Wheeler: Iʼm at Scotiabank Arena. Warmups are just about to finish below me. Weʼre ready to go. Quinn was saying he knows some of you guys through PEP and Hardy told me that Fohr was an “unreal foosball player” so Iʼm not sure whether classroom introductions are needed here. Letʼs have fun with this.
Nick Fohr: Iʼve played a game or two of foosball in my day. Hardy isnʼt half bad either. He is one of the first people I have played where I had to set my beer down and use two hands.
Ryan Hardy: Good to virtually meet everybody. I consider myself to be at least an above-average foosball player and Fohr beat me 10-9 once (he was playing with only one hand). The pregame beers may have helped him.
Stefan Legein: This is what happens at the NTDP eh…
Hardy: Lol used to happen at the NTDP… they donʼt even let me in the rink anymore!
Dante Martella: Great idea, Scott! Thanks for including me. Great to meet you all. Coming from an Italian background, foosball is a childhood pre-requisite.
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Legein: Nothing from Nick Quinn yet! PEP must have signed a deal to run pre-game warm up.
Hardy: Ruthless. Thatʼs how I hurt my shoulder actually — tripped over the (PEP) apparatus. So much for reactive countering™.
Martella: Clearly you were just demonstrating what NOT to do. Its more realistic that way. A valuable skill.
Wheeler: Before the game starts here (and before Quinn has a chance to speak for himself), thoughts on Tampa-Columbus yesterday? Anybody ever been a part of a marathon like that?
Hardy: That was wild. I think 3OTs is the longest I was ever involved with.
Wheeler: Whatʼs the science from the strength coach on whatʼs happening to Seth Jonesʼ legs after 65 minutes of TOI, Dante?
Martella: Man, my first thought this morning was the scoreboard on NHL.com glitched. Then looking into it, I was taken back mentally to that Isner-Mahut matchup at Wimbledon 2010.
Legein: Yeah, I am curious about what to do for the players in that situation. I have heard old stories about flat out ordering a bunch of pizzas.
Hardy: Ya but they were crushing slices in between chain-smoking darts — Iʼm actually interested in hearing what they should be eating!
Martella: From an energy systems perspective, the textbook goes out the window there. Itʼs just will. Itʼs just survival. Itʼs desperation. Itʼs not sets and reps anymore. From a nutrition perspective, you can also probably simplify. The textbook also goes out the window. They need FAST carbohydrates mostly, and lots of salt/sodium.
As far as specifics of food in a game like that… you can probably look at the glycemic index (GI) as a reference guide. Itʼs almost the opposite advice youʼd normally give for health/performance. Higher GI foods (release glucose faster) like white bread, bagels and sugary foods probably a better bet in a unique situation like that. Salt is critical for blood volume/recovery/energy as well as replenishing electrolyte balance.
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Nick Quinn: Hey guys! Quinner here. Last one to the party. My old teammate Scotty Laughton has been *fire emoji* for the Flyers so Iʼm already biased.
Legein: I’m all Laughton all day. That whole line has been amazing.
Quinn: Heʼs a gamer, no question.
Wheeler: Whatʼs everyoneʼs completely biased prediction for the series? Iʼve got the Flyers in 6.
Martella: Also Flyers in 6.
Legein: If (Price) is good, itʼs unpredictable. If heʼs not, Flyers crush them in 5.
Hardy: I like the Flyers but Iʼve never made a prediction that turned out to be right and I donʼt need Gritty after me if I jinx them.
Quinn: Flyers in 5 (unless Price is out of this world).
Hardy: Here’s what people will really want to know: What are the groupʼs thoughts on wardrobe decisions made by coaches so far in these playoffs?
Legein: Approve. Why do we need suits? We are up and down the bench talking to guys getting wet and dirty. Lulu dress pants and a team-issued quarter zip. Who’s with me?
Quinn: Lol, I like players showing up in suits looking professional but thatʼs just me.
Game starts.
Quinn: Hayes not able to find the inside space there. Waited too long (easy to say from the tv lol).
Legein: Yeah, never understood the guy waiting until he slid. Or the desire to keep driving forward. Hit the brakes and let him slide by.
Quinn: For sure. And the D-man is giving inside space, just fire it through. Montreal not known for getting inside, theyʼll have to change that if they have any chance of winning against Philly.
Martella: Question for anyone: What do you think was Pittsburgh’s biggest “mistake” and/or what was Montrealʼs strength in that first series? Not the first time weʼve seen a Habs team rely heavily on goaltending/opportunistic scoring.
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Fohr: My take was the team perspective. The Penguins were hurt all year and never really established a team culture and it showed. Montreal played more like a team.
Legein: I think MTL played more structured, which is shocking considering they didnʼt all year.
Wheeler: Feels like there are some key pieces on the Habs who needed the first half of the year to figure some things out, too. Surely (Nick) Suzukiʼs a different player now than he was in October and heʼs now a big part of everything they do.
Quinn: Seemed like the break hurt the Penguins and Price was outstanding. Bad combo.
Martella: Good points. Montreal seems to relish that underdog role/energy, but think Flyers too structured/deep to get through.
Fohr: Flyers will be a hard out for any team.
Legein: I think Flyers have some great leadership, plus itʼs hard to play against a team that always starts with the puck.
Martella: And HOUNDS it when they donʼt have it. Every line has an element of relentlessness.
Hardy: Itʼs funny, in all of these series (and we do it every year), the difference between winning and losing is so razor thin so whichever team wins it inflates the narrative on both sides. The Lightning absolutely dominated for large stretches of last nightʼs game but if the Blue Jackets gets a bounce then weʼre talking all day about how incredible their buy-in/structure is and how much itʼs deja-vu for TBL all over again.
Quinn: The Leafs get the most questions right?! Lol.
Martella: Thereʼs your article right there. Copy. Paste. Tweet. Hardy’s analysis is spot on.
Wheeler: Iʼd be curious to know what Hardy thinks about Phillyʼs roster construction? They feel heavy. (Sean) Couturier, (James van Riemsdyk), (Jakub) Voracek, (Kevin) Hayes up front are all strong on the puck. (Ivan) Provorov, (Philippe) Myers, (Travis) Sanheim are all big AND mobile.
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Hardy: Are you asking because of my affinity for undersized soft skill!? I really like Philly — they have everything in their lineup and can play it any way you want to play it. Colorado is similar. Also, Carter Hart… talented and young. We spend all this time talking about goalies needing a long track to mature, but as weʼve seen in recent years with Binnington, Murray, etc., sometimes that youthful naïveté is just what you need.
Wheeler: Speaking of Provorov.
Fohr: Voracekʼs net front was unreal. Hard to stop what you canʼt see.
Quinn: D-man has to let the goalie see that puck. Clear the net front.
Fohr: Quinner, it’s hard to clear the front on the PK.
Legein: JvR needs to shoot that puck. Guys want to pass way too much.
Hardy: Haha, Stef, youʼre going to want to puke if you ever watch the Steel play!
Fohr: Yes he will!
Legein: We have the same problem. Young skill guys want to skate it into the net!
Fohr: Funny, I just did an interview the other day about coaching Matthew Tkachuk and I told the reporter that my biggest memory from my first year with him was that he wanted to stickhandle the puck into the net.
Wheeler: “But coach, I could do that in minor hockey.”
Legein: I hate the net play Gallagher just tried.
Wheeler: The old off-the-back-of-the-net to myself?
Legein: Yeah, especially from him. So good at getting low and protecting the puck. Why try and bank it off the net to yourself?
Hardy: One of the great things, Fohrzy, that you were teaching those guys (and weʼve tried to apply in our program) is that young players have a misconception that “skill” is just good hands (in part because theyʼve gotten away with 1-on-1 play their whole lives) when in reality that “skill” is useless unless itʼs actionable in the context of the game.
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Legein: Can I more than “heart” and “thumbs up” that? Itʼs not sexy to work on the “skill” of handling a pass to shoot.
Fohr: You have to be able to use your skill and talent within the structure of the team or you have no chance to play the game at this level.
Martella: Well said. Specificity. Itʼs like watching these kids doing “ladder drills” for “fast feet.” But when you apply that contextually to the reactivity of a game… that “skill” isnʼt ever-present or necessary.
Fohr: One of my favorite exercises is to pull a ton of goals of superstars and show the players how simple the plays actually are to get you to the point to use your skill and wow the fans.
Hardy: Thatʼs why Fohrzy has developed so many good players — he only gives shitty passes all the time in practice so they have to adapt! Kids off that 1997 NTDP team owe him millions!
Legein: Hahaha, thatʼs where the saying “canʼt give a good player a bad pass” came from!
Fohr: I could use millions right now! And it took me my entire career to perfect those shitty passes!
Martella: Iʼll never forget, we did this reactive agility drill a few years back at one of the BioSteel camps. Connor McDavid was one of the fastest in the straightaway drill, but not THE fastest. As soon as we added a reactive component… he was far and away the fastest guy.
Quinn: Traditional training methods of working on isolated skills has zero relativity to the new game. Thatʼs the biggest problem with players. Extending players is the key to success. Being good at one skill doesnʼt work anymore. You have to be able to execute 3-4 skills at once. Most players canʼt.
Legein: Lots of robots. Good example from JvR. After he toe drags, he stays in the same lane. Obviously someone else is coming. Pull up and use the space behind the contact.
Wheeler: And that something is Shea Weber.
Quinn: Perfect example, as I was literally typing about how toe drags donʼt work! Lol.
Martella: Itʼs unfortunate because it speaks a bit to the culture of parenting in the sport, as well as the sport at large itself. Weeks are filled with tons of skill sessions and edge work and workouts, etc. More, more, more for the sake of doing more. Rather than looking at a more essentialist approach and working on what matters most for that particular athlete.
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Wheeler: I know you and (Nichol) make it a habit to book other activities for your NHL group in the summer to get them out of the gym, Dante. Why?
Legein: From a player’s point it gets boring to lift weights every day.
Martella: We always get asked what the best “hockey exercises” are and the answer isnʼt a specific list of exercises. We try and focus on primarily restoring/maintaining posture, breathing and health in the early offseason. And then when we get into the thick of it, itʼs all about improving athleticism. Hockey is a sport that requires robust levels of strength, speed, power, dexterity and agility in a reactive setting with no “out of bounds.”
So for us, getting guys out of postures that lend themselves to chronic compensatory patterns as a result of the sport (tight hips, groin issues, shoulder issues, postural issues etc.). Those activities have a cross-training effect that enhances general athleticism, but thereʼs also a tremendous amount of specificity there. Itʼs not drills for the sake of drills. Beach volleyball is on sand so the ground contact time is similar to a skating stride. And if you watch them from the waist down, itʼs reactive, itʼs acceleration/deceleration mechanics, itʼs hips twisting and turning, just like hockey. MMA is great for conditioning, and upper body power endurance. Gymnastics are strength, power, balance. All our goalies have to include squash in training (lots of reactivity in a small space).
And as Stef said, it gets them OUT of the gym. If we set up four pylons and said “weʼre doing agility for an hour,” I’d get a chair thrown at my head. But if we say “youʼre going to play a beach volleyball tournament today,” all smiles.
Legein: I think in the long grind if you can sneak something in thatʼs harder than they think, itʼs key.
Martella: Mentally, you can’t underestimate the importance of keeping things fresh. Itʼs an art to fine tune the balance. So finding ways to address needs in a unique way is definitely something to consider.
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Hardy: The mental/emotional components are so underrated in the on-and-off ice development of these guys. We obsess over the minutia of things that we can quantify but if we can unlock the potential in their minds and their spirit, the possibilities of what they can do become infinite.
Quinn: People equate more ice time or more gym time to more success but itʼs the type of reps you do that make a difference. Most of the top players we train donʼt skate every day. Not even close.
A scrum breaks out.
Wheeler: Where’s Travis Konecny and who is he chirping? It’s like Where’s Waldo? Clockwork.
Quinn: How did I know Laughty was in there somewhere?
Legein: Laughty ended up there by accident. “Hey boys, whatʼs going on over here?”
Fohr: Suzuki is such a better player then I gave him credit for when he was younger! He really impressed me in the series with PIT. And it wasnʼt his skill. It was his ability to read plays, positioning, etc. He was unreal on the PK too.
Quinn: Heʼs been lights out.
Legein: I think the break was big for him. Rest, bulk up a bit.
Martella: Just had an example of that this week. Had a goalie already rehabbing a knee issue. Then comes in after subluxing shoulder. Asked for anything heʼs doing outside of the gym… Six on-ice sessions. Then the odd game with buddies. Plus all our training. Gassed the ice training. One or two rehab sessions. Some treatment. Focus on sleep. Shoulder pain gone within a week. Less is more.
Hardy: That break was invaluable for the young guys. (Kirby) Dach looks like a completely different player. I think itʼs interesting too: For veterans this is a weird playoff, for young guys the adrenaline and excitement has to be off the charts. They donʼt really know how different it is than in a normal year.
Martella: Taking a holistic approach is huge off the hop. We show this to all our young athletes.
Fohr: Need to add girls, agents, etc. to that chart on the outgoing portion.
Hardy: What a dish from 49 (Joel Farabee).
Legein: Fohr, what do you think about setting it up as opposed to quick transition?
Fohr: Situational for me. Want quick transition as a default but need to be able to react the other way if necessary.
Legein: Long shift, broken play, etc.
Fohr: Yeah.
Quinn: Amazing, the Canadiens finally create a scoring chance by gaining the zone on something other than a dump in. Need to see more of that.
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Legein: Teams are so good at building the wall. Unless you’re McDavid, you have to be able to make those five-foot passes and planned retrievals. (Jean-Gabriel) Pageau did a nice little dump bank back to himself the other day. Similar to that Boston PP break out.
Fohr: Yeah, you have to catch them before they get set in their defensive posture or it is hard to get anything going. The Finns are unreal at getting into that posture and making it hard on you.
Legein: Itʼs your theory basically, Quinn. Place the puck in a spot I can get to before you but on a bigger scale.
Quinn: Thereʼs so many missed opportunities on a shift-by-shift basis.
Hardy: Price got that, lol.
Legein: Heʼs amazing but Laughton should have should slid it into an empty spot. Never even showed shot once! Great pass and save but thatʼs a goalie drill.
Quinn: Nice pass through the seam there. Great save.
After the Canadiens tie it, the Flyers answer back.
Wheeler: Well, things are happening.
Hardy: Scott, the world moves faster in real time and we have a five-second delay to save us from bad words!
Quinn: That’s so deflating for the Habs.
Martella: That’s a response.
Legein: 77 (Brett Kulak) can’t let that guy behind him.
Fohr: Seen that before!
Wheeler: Ha! I knew that was coming from you, Fohr.
Fohr: We have a drill called The Farabee because he is so good at that.
Wheeler: What do the loyal subscribers of The Athletic need to know about him, given that you coached him and all?
Fohr: He is a super driven kid! Came to the rink every day to prove he was the best player in the world. He was definitely not the headliner on the team coming in, but he was the guy leaving.
Martella: Love that! Speaking of being driven, great book recommendation for anyone interested: “Grit” by Angela Duckworth. Just finished it. In a sport that often chastises the word “grit” and other similar terms, it was refreshing to have such an analytical yet qualitative breakdown of such an important concept.
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Hardy: Iʼve got a great Farabee story: 2016 Youth Olympics, we had to submit roster in November for a tournament in February. Of course, being the great talent evaluator that I am, I cut him. That weekend I go to a tournament in Detroit, first game he has a hat trick against Honeybaked with three absolute beauties. After the game I text him to come find me and Iʼm like, “Hey buddy, you, uh, probably have a case that you should have made the team.” Needless to say, didnʼt make the same mistake five months later!
Fohr: He is a coach’s dream. Does all the little things right. Plays the game the right way. Drives his teammates to be better. He has all the intangibles that you canʼt measure. And he is just a winner! Not the fastest, or the hardest shot, etc. just loves to win!
Hardy: He ended up coming on his official visit (to the NTDP) the day after I got back from Norway. Iʼm touring him around and everybody at work is like “Congrats on the gold medal!” and Iʼm like “Oh man I wish these people would stop talking.” He took it in stride though — great kid.
Martella: Thatʼs awesome. Itʼs those kinds of guys that can teach you as much as you (hopefully) taught them. Always great to see someone really put it ALL together.
Hardy: Fohrzy — is there one player that when they got to the program youʼre like “this kid is brutal” and then by the end you were so thrilled to have coached him?
Fohr: The kid that comes to mind first is Kevin Labanc. He was really behind his group with us but just put his head down and worked and has become a pretty good player for San Jose.
Legein: I like his game. Heʼs kind of like (Zach) Hyman a bit? Donʼt see him too often out here.
Fohr: It’s not a surprise that he is able to score in the NHL. He lived in our shooting room back then.
Legein: Scored in the OHL as well, holy.
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Wheeler: Labanc and (Andrew) Mangiapane (also a pretty good player in Calgary now AND a late bloomer) feasted in that last year in Barrie.
Legein: I skated with Mangiapane the last two summers, heʼs a good player. Works really, really hard. Has a great ability to get shots off in weird spots of his body. Really the common theme here is: Be a hard worker.
Martella: Gents, Iʼm going to be phasing out here shortly. Got a few mins still, so any questions you might have for me in particular, fire away.
Legein: What should guys be drinking pre, during, and post?
Martella: Would say to focus on promoting habits for long term health. So pre-hydration really starts with how you structure your whole day. Ensuring guys are adequately salting their foods, and listening to their bodies when they feel thirsty… donʼt ignore that. Sleep is integral to any form of performance, and is THE most effective performance enhancer (7-9 hours a night). No screen time one hour before bed is going to have a way bigger effect on performance and recovery than any stimulant or supplement.
For the actual “pre” workout or game drink, ideally, nothing highly stimulating or sugar-filled. If itʼs Game 7 of the playoffs, do whatever you have to do to get yourself going. But habit wise, a sugar-free electrolyte drink works well. Post-workout, replenishing with a high-quality protein is most important, ideally from whole foods, and best of from an animal foods source. If itʼs a late game, a shake probably easier to digest.
Wheeler: Big one I have, while watching Paul Byron (5-foot-9, 160 pounds soaking wet) and Travis Sanheim (6-foot-3, 180 pounds soaking wet) fly around is one Iʼve always had re: skating. A lot is made of power in hockey. So how do some of those lighter, lankier players learn to move like that? Is it just natural gifts, or something more?
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Martella: First thing to understand is that size/shape of the athlete comes down to a number of factors. Some of the smaller/lankier guys might actually have comparable muscular density as other guys that look bigger/heavier. So in theory a guy that is heavier may have proportionately similar muscular distribution to a guy thatʼs leaner, the heavier guy just has more fat. That doesnʼt necessarily have to be like the typical “overweight visible fat,” just more fat than the lean guy. Then there is a huge genetic component of the proportion of fast to slow twitch-muscle fibres. This is trainable to a certain degree, but definitely a genetic ceiling thatʼs more important.
And then from a training perspective, thereʼs more nuance. Biomechanically, do they have the requisite ability to access ranges of motion at their ankles and hips in order to even get to a position to generate power? Once there, do they have the agility to generate force from that position? And finally, can they repeat that force production over and over at comparable rates?
A lot of the times, cleaning up dysfunction at the ankles/feet extends benefits up the chain where you then see guys skating “faster.” They didnʼt necessarily do more “power training” but they are just now able to get into better positions. Access the full-throttle so to speak.
Wheeler: This is why you train the best professional athletes in the world and my back currently aches while sitting in a chair in a hockey arena.
The Flyers get a 4-on-3 power play.
Legein: Fohr, what are you running here? Calling a time out?
Fohr: If you have experienced skilled players like the Flyers have here, I think you run them out and let them do their thing. No timeout needed. These guys should know how to run a 4v3 PP. Although given the circumstances of the restart after four months off, you could make the case to take the time out and give them some pointers.
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Legein: I think Iʼd call one, just make sure they are all on the same page. If you score you don’t need it later in the game anyway.
Fohr: I think it all comes down to your comfortability in the players you have going out there in the situation. Honestly, I donʼt think there is a wrong answer in this situation. For us at the NTDP, we probably take the timeout in Year 1, but Year 2 we probably let them play it out as we have had time to get the players comfortable in the situation.
Legein: Fair
Wheeler: Did 44 (Nate Thompson) just miss a tap in?
Legein: 44 taping that in is a skill that clearly he doesnʼt have, lol. What a tough break. The worst is watching that one over and over and over after the game.
Timeout with 50 seconds left in the third.
Legein: Let me guess, get it to Weber and let him bomb it.
Fohr: Seems to work.
Legein: Suzuki can really catch and release that puck. Kinda like another kid Montreal has coming up!
Fohr: The ability of the NHL players to shoot a rolling puck is unreal.
Legein: They just donʼt hesitate. They trust it. Max height blades are helping a bit too! More guys need to spend time getting to know their blade.
Game ends.
Martella: Fellas, Iʼm out! Great to meet you all. Thanks again, Wheels! Had fun and learned a few things.
Wheeler: Well I guess that does it, guys. I know this was a weird ask, so your time and insight is appreciated. Seriously.
Legein: Nice chatting with you guys!
Fohr: Thanks guys, I had fun! Good luck to you all!
Hardy: Letʼs all keep in touch! Scott, thanks for organizing. Fohrzy, say hi to your family
Quinn: Thanks guys.
(Top photo: Mark Blinch / NHLI via Getty Images)
