As the Milwaukee Bucks summer league roster has started 2-0 in Las Vegas, general manager Jon Horst has been busy making many of the moves he negotiated at the start of the legal tampering period that opened free agency. With the signings of Jae Crowder and Chris Livingston becoming official on Sunday, the Bucks now have 14 players on their NBA roster for next season, leaving just one more roster spot for Horst to potentially fill out the Bucks’ 15-man roster.
Advertisement
Before the Bucks tipped off their second summer league game against the Suns, an 84-75 victory, on Saturday night, Horst sat down with The Athletic for an exclusive interview to break down each move the Bucks have made up to this point, as well as the big picture questions that persist now that much of the roster has been assembled for the 2023-24 season.
Note: This conversation has been edited for clarity and length.
Let’s start at the top of the roster and break this offseason down move by move. Before free agency began, you talked about how much keeping Khris Middleton meant to you as an organization and you were able to get a deal done with him relatively quickly as free agency opened up. What does it mean to have him back for up to three more years?
I think a lot. I mean, we felt obviously very strongly about the season we had last year. It didn’t end the way that we wanted to, but I don’t think that minimizes the work that we did throughout the course of the year and, maybe more importantly, what we’ve done over the last few years.
Khris is a massive part of that and he really played great in the playoffs and I know it’s a shorter run than we wanted, but Khris averaged like 24, 6, and 6. He felt great. He played great. He shot the ball well. He’s had an incredible off-season. Obviously, we’ve talked about that he had a procedure in the off-season, just kind of a clean-up procedure that I think is going to really help him hit the ground running to start the season, starting with training camp. I just think he’s going to have a great year. The guy’s an All-Star, he’s an Olympian, he’s a champion, and he’s the fabric of our community and our organization, so it’s a big deal for us to have him back.
Speaking of Middleton’s procedure, you obviously knew more about what was going on with him than any other organization in the league, but what kind of role did his health and recent injury history play in your conversations with him this offseason and your thoughts on signing him to another contract with the Bucks?
I think it always plays a role in every one of these decisions. When they’re your own players, you know more than anyone else. It’s just the nature of our league. When you’re bringing people in, you do the best you can, throughout the processes and avenues you have to learn as much as you can. Health is a big factor. Availability is a big deal, especially with the salaries of the players and the impact that they have on our organization and our ability to win. So, obviously, we feel comfortable with that. We made a commitment to Khris and really, we’re committing to the person: his diligence, his consistency and his work ethic. I just think he’s going to have a great year and I think he’s going to have a great couple of years for us and that’s why we committed to him.
Similarly, you talked about how much it meant to bring Brook Lopez back before free agency began as well. How much does it mean to have Lopez back on a two-year deal?
Yes, similar kind of sentiments, but obviously different impacts skill-wise. This team has done a lot together. Griff believed in this team when we hired him and was excited to keep this team together and the talent. We obviously believe in them.
Like Khris, Brook’s a champion. He’s been an All-Star. He was second last year in Defensive Player of the Year (voting). In our opinion, he was the Defensive Player of the Year. No disrespect to anybody else. He had a career year. Sometimes it can get lost when you isolate it and just say, “Man, he had a career year.” He’s had good year after good year after good year. It just keeps getting better. I think he’s just really smart. He works really hard, takes care of his body and he just keeps getting better and better.
Advertisement
I think last year it wasn’t a fluke that he scored the way he did, he shot the way he did. He led the league in total blocks. He had career years in field goal percentage and 3-point percentage, scoring and rebounding the highest it’s been in five or six years
He’s just trending in the right direction, even though he’s a little bit older, and he got rewarded for it as a free agent. He’s a core piece of our team and it was always the goal to have him back.
You mentioned Adrian Griffin. Lopez was not a hugely impactful defensive player before Mike Budenholzer coached him. Then, in Budenholzer’s five years, he turned into one of the best defensive centers in the NBA. With a new system on defense, were there any concerns about Lopez’s future value and his ability to impact games at the same level?
I don’t think so. I mean, there was discussion about it because system-wise you have to have fit, right? We always talk about having a fit next to Giannis and a fit next to a coach. Griff cares about defense in a very similar way, maybe even more so than we ever have in the past, but he does it differently. His belief in Brook and how he’s going to utilize Brook and how our team’s going to play around that gives me confidence. Again, he knows how he wants to play. He knows how it looks. He’s got the vision in his mind. I have to trust that and give him the best of fits. He believes that Brook is one of the best fits for him defensively. We know organizationally with our team how good of a fit he’s been, but I mean, Griff totally believes in the fit system-wise and I do too.
Working off of Brook, let’s chat about Robin Lopez. During the championship season in 2021, you had just three bigs on the roster, but over the last two years, you have decided to start rostering a fourth big. Why do you view that as something that is important now?
I think we play so many games over the course of the season — and it’s also cumulative over all these years — that every time you get a chance to get a little relief, to get a little break, but still be the same, or be as similar as possible, I think it’s super helpful. And not because he’s a twin, but because he’s big and he’s talented and can score the ball around the rim, sets great screens, and he’s an incredible teammate. Robin gives us the opportunity to play in a very similar way, if Bobby’s not playing some night, or if Brook’s not playing some night or Giannis isn’t playing some night. So we’ve gone back and forth. However it happens throughout the course of the season is to be determined, but we’ve definitely felt there’s been a need to have that extra big, that extra body on our team with this roster. The season’s long and the games are hard.
There are also some bigger teams in the NBA over the last couple of years than there have been in the past. I think you saw what Denver was able to do. They utilized their size in a big way. I think you’ve seen some of our conference opponents kind of get bigger. And so I think that was another reason to really be kind of up to speed with what’s happening in our league. I think our league is getting a little bit bigger, so we feel great about Robin.
Advertisement
You acquired Jae Crowder during the season last year for five second-round picks, so you obviously believed in his abilities, but — and I think Jae would even admit this himself — he didn’t have the postseason that he wanted to have. He wasn’t able to provide the impact that he wanted. With that in mind, what gave you the confidence that he can be better for you this season?
I think trusting our work. I mean, we spent a ton of time evaluating that move and that transaction. We were aggressive in pursuing it. There’s value in getting his Bird rights and there’s value in keeping his Bird rights. I mean, there’s a value in that in signing Jae that matters to us.
I think stylistically, now going back to the things that we know about Griff’s system and the way he wants to play, Jae’s still a big wing defender who can make open shots. He’s made open shots in the playoffs throughout his career. He’s been very good defensively throughout his career. He can guard probably small-ball fives. He can guard the kind of ISO threes. He’s definitely capable of guarding the fours.
He was great, even though he didn’t have the great playoff run that he wanted to have, maybe not even the season that he wanted to have while with us. He was an incredible character in the locker room. He’s a leader. He’s a competitor. So there were a lot of things that happened below the surface that gave us confidence to bring Jae back. There’s some strategic things that are important to bring Jae back. I really think that he could have a really great year just starting with us, you know, having a training camp, having the beginning of a season. He really played pretty well in the 18 or 20 games that he played with us in the regular season. He just never had a great rhythm. So it’s kind of trusting our work and then saying, let’s do it again and let’s see if it works.
Malik Beasley is one of the new guys coming onto the roster this season. What do you think he can do for you?
I think it starts with he made more 3s than anybody in the league last year off the bench — not that he’s going to be a bench player, that’s to be determined; there’s open competition — but he was able to fill a role and do it incredibly effectively last year in the NBA. In his career, he’s been a guy who shoots a lot and makes a lot. He definitely can get his shot up when he wants and he makes it in a really efficient way. I think he has more to his game. He’s 26, about to turn 27, so he’s not that old yet. I think he’s got more to his game defensively. I think that he could benefit from playing with a guy like Giannis (Antetokounmpo) and Khris and Jrue (Holiday) and our system. You’ve seen in the past.
We’ve had players who are good shooters and really become kind of elite shooters in our system. I think he’s one of those guys that is capable of doing that because, again, he has a willingness and a desire to let it go and he’s proven that he can make it efficiently. He’s got a little bit of a midrange game, too. I just think he could be a great fit. He’s hungry. He’s really ready to prove to the league that he’s better than where his market was this year, and I think it’ll be a great fit.
Speaking of shooters, you decided to convert A.J. Green over to an NBA contract from a two-way spot and put him on the 15-man roster. What did he show to you last season and then maybe here in the offseason that makes you believe he can contribute at the NBA level?
I think he dominated at the G League level when he was able to get the opportunity and play the minutes. So he’s able to rise to the top of that level, which mattered to us and he played in a bunch of games for us last year and I think 14 or 15 times, he made multiple 3s in a game as a rookie — and an undrafted rookie at that. So we believe in his shooting at a high level. He’s an incredible worker, high-character young man and really, really driven and focused to be good.
You can see — and I’m sure we’ll get to this — some of the moves on our team were to infuse some youth and some younger players, some athleticism and skill at different positions. That was important for us. And A.J. seems like a great bet. You bet on the person, bet on the skill, he made shots in the NBA last year and he killed in the G League.
Advertisement
As you try to fill out a roster as a luxury tax team, I can obviously understand the value of having cheaper contracts on the roster, but what did you see in your two second-round picks, Andre Jackson Jr. and Chris Livingston, that makes you feel like they deserved to be part of the 15-man roster?
I think it’s important for us to invest in development. It’s important for us to invest in youth and youth that fits. You know, we always talk about fit. To start with Andre, we didn’t go into the draft thinking that we were having a chance to get Andre, but when it was clear that we had an opportunity to get a pick in that range and he could be one of the players that we could secure with that pick, we got really excited. We think that there’s an unbelievable development opportunity with him, just strength and experience and shooting, but there’s also a baseline level of skill and toughness and athleticism that could translate right out of the gate. We’ll see. He had a great game the other day. We’ll see what he does throughout the summer league, what he does at training camp, but Andre’s toughness, his ability to defend multiple positions, his playmaking, his handling, his speed, I think there’s a role, potentially on our team right out of the gate, but there’s definitely a development role for him and it’s important for us to invest in that.
With Chris, at No. 58, it was an unbelievable opportunity to get a player with his talent, his pedigree at that place in the draft. I mean, you can see it, he’s a man among boys at 19 years old with a frame, a physicality. He had an offensive rebound in the game the other night where he just kind of went up above everybody. He hit a 3 late. He has a confidence. He’s a really interesting player that wants to be great, that wants to be part of an organization. Those guys are going to work hard every day. They’re going to develop, they’re going to grow. As long as we can have those spots available and we can invest in that, I think we’ll be better off immediately, but we’ll be better off going forward as well.
Moving on to bigger-picture ideas, you mentioned youth and athleticism. When thinking about the changes you needed to make or the things you needed to add as an organization this offseason, were those things that you circled?
Maybe not just to the youth specifically, but I think, speed and athleticism. I think we check a lot of boxes. We’ve had a great team. I’m very proud of our team that we built, proud of what the players have done. You can’t win every year, but we’ve had an opportunity to win every year and I’m proud of that group. But I think, one of the areas that I felt like we could get better is our team speed. I think if you look at the things that we’ve done, we’ve added players that are faster, which sometimes translates to youth and athleticism, but I think just overall team speed. That could be on the close out. That could be in the transition running with Giannis. It can be with the ball. I think those guys all kind of do that.
Also there’s a cultural kind of element to the learning and the hunger and the desire of guys that are kind of grinding and trying to make their way. Second round picks that are trying to make their way, an undrafted player like A.J. Green trying to make his way that I think just builds the competition level. That’s why we drafted MarJon (Beauchamp): his speed, his athleticism, his hunger. I think that creates a great cultural environment as well, where we want to make sure that we maintain that hunger and desire in our organization.
Between the core four, Bobby Portis and Pat Connaughton, there are still six NBA champions on the roster from the 2020-21 squad. And while they won a championship, they’ve been the core of a team that has come up short the last two seasons. I’m curious, what gives you the confidence that this is still a championship core next season, three years later in their careers?
Number one, because they’ve done it. We still believe we have the best player in the world, who is incredibly motivated, and these guys still fit and they’re also really motivated. They want to do more. I think we’re all proud of who we’ve been and who we are, but I think they also are really hungry to get back on top and to show everyone that we can do what we think we can do. And it’s not been perfect. Not every year is perfect, but last year through 82 games, we won more than anybody else and then we lost in the playoffs.
Credit to Miami. I mean, they had a hell of a run and they beat us fair and square. The year before, we lost to the team that went to the NBA Finals in seven games.
So even though we haven’t gotten there, I don’t feel like we’re super far away, and so we believe in this core. We believe in Pat. We believe in Bobby. Obviously, we committed to Brook and Khris going forward and Giannis and Jrue, that’s a really, really strong core group of guys. I think we’re excited to see what Griff and his staff do to also take a next step with that group. So I think the combination of coaching, the combination of hunger from the core that we have and then the youth and the athleticism, the speed and the hunger that we’ve infused with the roster, guys that have a chip on their shoulder, I think could be a great mix as well. We’re hoping for that.
Advertisement
It’s a limited sample size, but when you look at Jrue Holiday’s performance in the playoffs the last three season, his offensive numbers have been much lower during the postseason than the regular season. Obviously, he takes on tough defensive assignments, but is his offensive performance in the postseason something you feel like you need to address? Is his offensive production in the playoffs something that is a concern for you going forward?
I mean, that’s something for Griff and I to really work on together — and really him and his staff as well. I do think that taking on the toughest matchups, almost regardless of position, every single night is hard and the fact Jrue can still be effective offensively and he can still run our team offensively and he can have the impact that he’s had defensively, just shows you how incredible he is.
I feel like — and we talked about this a little bit with re-signing Jae Crowder — that’s part of my responsibility to constantly look for avenues to help him in that area, to give us other options to guard those guys. I think we’ve done that. I think systematically we’re going to explore things and there are ways on our roster, as we are currently constructed, that we can help him. I think that there might be some system things offensively to make that easier for him as well.
I do think that there’s something there for us to work on. I can’t tell you exactly what it is, but I know from a personnel standpoint, we’ve thought and felt and tried to continue to have other players that can guard multiple positions, other players that can have a physicality, that could pick up 94 feet and utilize those guys because Jrue, like all of us, can’t do it on his own. You know he sure as hell tries and he’s an incredible athlete and contributor, but he needs help. We all need help.
As of now, there’s no backup point guard on your roster. You have one more open roster spot remaining, so is that a priority for you or do you feel like backup point guard duties are something this roster can handle with the players already on the roster and potentially the two-way players as well?
We’re at peace with where we’re at right now. We’ll see. You never know how it works out and we’ll have avenues to change, if we need to change. But we have a lot of secondary ballhandlers.
Even though there’s not, by position, a true, pure backup point guard on the 15-man roster, we have Lindell (Wigginton) and Omari (Moore) on our 2-ways right now and we feel great about those guys.
Lindell, in particular, has been there and done that for us, so he’s going to have an opportunity. Omari is kind of a little bit of a secret for us that we’re excited about. He’s really smart with the ball, very poised, can make shots, has great size, so we feel good about that. But also think of Malik Beasley and think of Grayson Allen and obviously Giannis and obviously Khris and Andre, all of whom can handle and make plays.
So, I think Griff’s excited for that challenge to figure out how we utilize it and we’ve ultimately made a talent bet on where we wanted to put our money and our minutes and felt like we could cover that position with the roster we have. If that doesn’t work, we’ll figure it out.
Taking a look at your salary cap table, it looks like you have the core of this roster pretty much locked in for the next two seasons. How do you view the future of this team? Is it two years of pushing for a championship and then building the next championship version of this roster? How do you try to balance the push for a championship versus extending your window of contention past the next two seasons?
I think some of it is coincidental, some of it is intentional, and I think it’s smart to be thinking about that. That’s our job: to think about the now, maximize the now, but be positioned for the future. I think you can see the commitment on our roster spots, the minutes, the development that we’ve made starting the last couple of years, and for sure this year, it’s even more obvious.
Advertisement
We had A.J. last year. We had MarJon. Now you’ve got Chris, now you’ve got Andre. We’re going to keep doing other things. We definitely want to continue to invest and try to find — I don’t know if you want to call it the next version of this team — but additions that can be part of whatever the version of this team is going forward. And Khris and Brook and Jrue and Pat and Bobby, those guys still have a path forward with us as well. Even if their contracts don’t suggest it right now, that’s that’s not to say that they don’t have an even longer future with us going forward.
But I think there’s obviously an eye to the future and there’s an eye to figure out how do we continue to build this thing, so we can sustain the window, that’s what we’ve talked about since day one. I thought we had an initial window where we didn’t win, but we were really good. We’ve been in a second window where we’ve been really good and we won. We want to kind of maximize the second window that I think we’re still in and we need to build our third window and I think we’re on the path to do that.
Speaking of that next window, Giannis Antetokounmpo will be extension eligible in September. How does that play into your thought process and decision-making as you try to make moves as a general manager?
I mean, that’s our job. He is the most incredible human, superstar, teammate, leader, I believe, in all of sports and we’re incredibly blessed to have him. It’s an awesome responsibility to win and compete every year to be in a position to keep him.
I think that’s my job and that’s my responsibility and it’s my opportunity and his opportunity and our team’s opportunity. And Griff and (Bucks president) Peter Feigin share in that, as do our owners. I think it’s really cool to have that chance to be able to do that.
We’ve been able to do it so far, and we’ll do everything we can to do it again.
For the first time in five years, you have a new coach running things. Obviously, you hired him, so there is a high level of confidence in what he can do for you, but what is your level of excitement versus nervousness as you embark on another NBA season?
It’s mostly exciting. You’re learning a new rhythm, you’re learning a new staff, you’re acclimating to new people. You’re looking for opportunities for him (Griffin) to connect with our players, to connect with our staff, to do everything we do together. It’s been super exciting. We really have a high level of belief in him and his group. That’s why we hired them and we’re just excited to see how it comes together.
It was fun to watch a summer league game the other night just to see some of his philosophies and the system come to fruition and start to imagine that being Jrue or that being Giannis and Brook, being in the back. So it’s been exciting. He’s been awesome to work with and I look forward to seeing how it turns out.
(Top photo of Jon Horst and Adrian Griffin: Benny Sieu / USA Today)
