Scientology Memoirs :: Lisa Gibson

November 30, 2000

Retrieved from the wayback machine & elsewhere to preserve for future generations:
http://web.archive.org/web/20011218042213/www.icon.fi/~marina/1stpersn/a010.htm

Cat Dancing in D.C.

Mine is different perspective. I was only on staff in Scientology
for a short time, not long enough to feel the full effects of mind
control but long enough to witness things that scared the hell out
of me.
It all started during the summer of 1973. My older sister
Lavenda called and asked me to come live with her in Las
Vegas, when she picked me up at the airport she took me
straight to Scientology in Las Vegas. I didnt know she was in
Scientology or what it was. They explained to me that they were
trying to help the planet and being so young, 18, and idealistic
this sounded like a good idea, so I signed on.
They put me in charge of the kids at the house and I started taking Scientology courses. I was
curious about the TRs (these are Training Routines famous for that staring look Scientologists
have). When I asked why we had to sit there and not react while people screamed at us, cussing, etc.
I was told that it was for toughening up so we could handle the public if they harassed us in any
way. I learned later it was the beginning of mind control tactics and one of the maneuvers that rob
people of their emotions and teach insensitivity to the feelings of others I met a lot of people who
were genuinely trying their best to do their part to help the planet.
One of the first things they did was introduce me to auditing. (Scientology auditing is a process
where you sit and answer questions while on an e-meter, a device similar to a lie detector that tells
the auditor how you are reacting to questions, and sends a constant small charge through your
body). I was told the process would help me eliminate any past traumatic experiences and lead to
extraordinary abilities. The only thing they were interested in was any past mistakes or problems in
my life. I found out later how it would be used against me.
I also noticed that many of the Scientologists them seemed desperate for a solid night sleep. When
I commented about that, I was told that people really dont need more than 4 hours of sleep and I
was introduced to another TR for keeping your body awake. I was given stacks of letters to write to
people encouraging them to buy courses. This was the every night and I started dealing on 4 hours
of sleep a night. I often cooked for about 40 people and it was usually a beans and rice kind of meal.
I remember a woman on staff, I think her name was Cathy; she worked directly under the
Commanding Officer Bob Harvey. She was wandering around the org telling everyone, Well my

mom decided to drop her body today. It was like she was reading a news headline, she showed no
emotion. I thought, Oh my God, what is going to happen when she is faced with the reality of losing
her mom? You would think she was talking about doing her laundry from the way she acted. I
thought, Is this what the Scientology Training routines do people? I was starting to have my doubts
whether these people could help the world.
For a short time, I dated a very nice man named Louie Pagliaro. He took some auditing classes there
but he was not on staff. He had been in Scientology for a long time and was one of those OTs,
Operating Thetans (A Person who has achieved super mind powers according to the gossip around
the org.)
I never saw any super human powers, just a great guy, but then Loretta (Bob Harveys wife) told me
I couldnt date him anymore because he was not on staff. He was not happy about that.
He told me once that he had spent $50, 000 on Scientology. I heard next that he was demanding a
refund. He was living with another Scientologist who had reached the OT levels in Scientology
named Pat, a Las Vegas showgirl. They had befriended a homeless man. Louie was found cut up in
a plastic bag in his living room.
Anyway, back to 1973, while I was in the Las Vegas Org, I remember seeing two guys in black
armbands scrubbing the floor with a toothbrush. I was told not to speak to them. I heard they also
had to endure hours of auditing and verbal torture. They were being penalized for wrongdoing,
being in Scientologys RPF, and again I thought Oh God what have I gotten myself into now? Also,
there was a young man named, Scott on staff. He was from a wealthy family and his parents were
coming to make him leave. He was transferred out. I never saw him again.
The final straw was when I was watching the children and a five-year-old hit bob Harveys child.
He lost it and backhanded the child, knocking him across the room. I freaked out and became
hysterical. Loretta told me to calm down, telling me that I didnt understand because I wasnt O. T.
and that I was providing content for the childs engram by making a scene. (An engram is what
Hubbard called a period of pain or unconsciousness)
I told her I understood, he just hit a child across the room. She was very angry with me and I was
afraid I might be sent to the RPF so I just shut up proceeded to plan my escape. I knew I couldnt
tell anyone I was planning to leave, especially my sister, and that I would have to proceed
cautiously and trust no one.
Luckily, a friend had been taking classes and becoming disenchanted, he gave me his phone number
and said that if I ever wanted out I could come stay with his mom.
The first thing I had to do was get out into the population, so I transferred into the public divisions
and started going on the bus downtown to hand out personality tests.
We would talk tourists into coming back to the org to take the tests. Of course no one ever passed.
If I couldnt get them to buy a course, wed get them a book. Most would buy a book just to be rid
of us.

Amid the insanity, one day I met a man from the Sea Organization visiting us for a few days on
mission. He was gorgeous in uniform. He walked with arrogant swagger a powerful form, and I had
to have him. Enter and exit Arnie Lerma, but I couldnt tell him my plans. Little did I know the
impact he would have on my life 25 years later.
Finally, the day came; I was in a large crowd in downtown. I knew it was the time. I had saved
change from my $7.00 a week paycheck and I had the phone number.
I ducked through the crowd and up through the Mint Hotel elevator. I felt my heart was in my
throat. I knew they would be looking for me. I waited for some time and then I called the number, I
had my freedom from Scientology.
She was only a few blocks away. The next week I was looking for a job on a really hot day so I
went into the mall and ordered a drink. In walks my brother Buddy He said he had been looking for
me for three days, he was just about to go back to Florida and didnt know where else to look. He
put me in touch with an old girlfriend of his and then he went back to Florida.
Later I started dating David Sandweiss. He had also left Scientology but he was one of those OTs
having been in for years. We started living together and married. Later Chuck and Madeline Reese
came over to our apartment. They were Scientologists from the Guardians Office, which is now
called O. S. A, (Office of Special affairs) of the Las Vegas Org. They offered money to ruin the
reputation of a local psychiatrist. Chuck Reese told me that I could be driving a Cadillac like he did.
I told them no, but David decided to join Scientology again, though all the reasons he did decide are
still unclear.
Before I go on with the rest of the details of my marriage, I would like to take the time to apologize
to Davids family, should this be published and seen by a family member. I dont know how to say I
am sorry for any pain this essay may cause you.
For many years I thought why bring all this up, when it could cause me great harm from the cult of
Scientology and pain to Davids family, but now I see why it is necessary to connect all the dots.
Anyway, before my marriage to David ended, he called me at home one day and said that he had
been out gambling all day and that he met a couple of guys. One of them was very rich and he
invited me to join them for dinner at the hotel.
I did and it was all very strange. One of the men was obviously upset but trying to keep it under
control. He struck me as being a very sad person.
I later learned that the sad man was Quentin Hubbard, the son of L Ron Hubbard. I felt very
uncomfortable with these people.
They gave us a hotel room, said hey would be back to join us later for the show. I was feeling a
little drunk when we went to the room. I felt weird but couldnt place the odd feelings I had. We
discussed everything the next day; David confessed to me that he had had his first homosexual

experience at the hotel before I got there.

We had a very frank conversation about it. I went into shock, for a man that I enjoyed heterosexual
sex with so much, I couldnt believe my ears. I asked him if he was gay. He said no, they had been
drinking and that things got out of hand.
You have to understand that this was the mid-seventies, we associated with Hollywood type
bisexual friends and it seemed like the "in thing".
David was very open-minded sexually. David said he had no desire to pursue it and I believed him
If he chose that lifestyle later doesn't really matter. The question is how did the choice he made at
the hotel that day alter the course of his life? That is a question I have fought with for years.
Soon after, we moved LA briefly. David was very depressed, things weren't going well financially.
He sold his 1967 Corvette for money. His pride and joy. David liked the better things in life.
Our marriage was disintegrating. We decided to move to Eugene, Oregon. I set up an apartment.
David went back to Las Vegas to tie some things up there. We talked on the phone several times but
he never returned to our apartment and we soon divorced as friends.
I returned to Florida and started singing in St. Pete. He wrote to me a few times and sent a book to
me but then I lost contact for a while right after the New Year holiday in 1977. I decided to go
through Vegas on my way to Seattle. I decided to surprise David; I knew the apartment and figured
he still lived there.
When I arrived at his home, a man answered. He was very hostile. I figure it was because I wasn't in
Scientology and asked me what I wanted. I explained I was Lisa and wanted to see David. He shut
the door for a minute. I could hear someone talking to him. Then the other guy brought David to the
door. David looked very tired, sleepy. He was very rude to me, blew me off completely and told me
I wasn't welcome there. I was taken aback. David had never treated me like that before. I left the
bottle of wine and two glasses on the front step with a note to David that said "have a nice life"
Lisa.
I went back to the front of the building and called a cab. I heard someone running over the rocks in
the parking lot. I was on the other side of the hedge. At first, I thought it was David and he had
changed his mind, then I realized it was the two guys from the apartment. I heard one of them call
out "look over there" my instincts took over and I ducked into the bushes and waited. They left and
I just waited in the bushes until the taxi came.
That was the last time I saw David alive. I feel now he was rude to me to protect me.
After I arrived in Seattle, I received word via my family that David was dead. The police had ruled
his death a suicide. A self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head.
Last year I asked the Las Vegas Police Department to re-investigate which they did and told me
they only had evidence David killed himself.

The way I see it, whether he pulled the trigger or someone else did, it was murder. I have heard
several rumors, stories from other people since I became part of the anti-Scientology activist
movement. I have heard he was ordered to kill himself.
Only the people that were there really know what happened. The average person would say "that's
crazy, ordered to commit suicide?"
Well, you have to know how mind control works, try going without sleep for years, in a very
controlled environment doing only Scientology TRs, auditing, etc. (remember, they find out all your
secrets during auditing and they are not above using that against you if you get out of line, and they
had plenty on David). Also, you believe that you live again and again so you are just "dropping your
body".
When I learned David was dead, I was sharing an apartment with my brother. I grabbed a few
clothes, got into my car and disappeared for 8 or 9 months. During that time, I only called my mom
twice to let her know I was okay. I never told my family about my last encounter with David until
many years later. I thought I was all alone out there. It was long before the Scientology critic
movement. My family assumed I was depressed over his death. Actually I was only about 25
minutes away from my brother but felt it best to stay downtown Seattle and work a mundane job for
a while. I have been a nomad many times and become very adept at disappearing if I feel
threatened. It gives you a chance to see life from many sides. When I thought it was the right time I
contacted my family, later, I remarried and had a son.
In the meantime my sister, LaVenda had decided to leave Scientology. In 1982, I was singing in a
jazz club in Bremerton. My sister showed up at the club. She had suddenly decided to move to
Washington. She came to club and told me she had decided to sue Scientology. She claimed the
"truth" had to come out. I begged her not to. Told her she wasn't thinking about what it would do to
our family. She had caused enough problems to my parents when she was in Scientology. Again,
she said she was only doing it to expose them. It all sounded very grandiose on her part at the time
but that's not the way it all turned out.
You see, in Scientology the worse thing you can do is to go the newspapers write a book or sue
them. They will destroy you by whatever means possible. They have the money, the private
investigators and the lawyers to do it.
There was no stopping her, and the next several years was pure hell for my family. They were
constantly harassed, phone calls in the middle of the night (one time there was a phone threat telling
my mother, LaVenda's eight year old daughter, Sabrina, would be raped). Private Detectives were
constantly watching my parents' house and finally one of my brothers hid LaVenda for a year until
the lawsuit was settled. My mother aged 20 years in less than five. Even my great aunts had nastythreatening letters written to them. My parents did what they could to help her believing her life was
in danger. LaVenda's dog was found dead in the trunk of her car. It was a living nightmare.
When she settled, she did not "reveal" her story to the public as she has stated she would. She blew
all the money in less than a year. Sometimes on very frivolous things like putting pink carpet in a

rented home. Watching her I kept thinking, it's like blood money running through her fingers. She's
giving it away, buying dinner for 20 people at a time. I disconnected from her for a while and
started singing in Tampa. Less than year later, I decided to drop by and visit Bobby, a friend of
mine. LaVenda was there acting really nervous and excited.
We went out back and she told me she was getting ready to meet a woman from O. S. A.
She said that while she was doing part time secretarial work for her lawyer Mike Flynn, she stole
documents and was selling them back to Scientology for eight thousand dollars.
I freaked, figured she would be killed and they would just take the documents but she laughed at me
said I was naive. She knew what they wanted and how to get what she wanted. She got what she
wanted. Mike Flynn was one of the first, and few lawyers willing to take on Scientology. He had
helped her out a lot. I understand his plane was tampered with (water mixed with gasoline) when he
was going on a trip with his son and he stopped taking on Scientology case. I know he was harassed
a lot. I am going by what I heard. I don't know all the reasons he quit defending ex-Scientologists
but I assume dealing with LaVenda's betrayal a primary reason. I never met Mr. Flynn, I tried to
stay away from a lot of that, but I know Mr. Flynn was very good to my parents even though the
Scientology lawyers raked them over the coals.
After her $8, 000 ran out LaVenda kept saying to me "you ought to sue Scientology, Lisa" You're
the one with the real case. You could sue over Davids death. She always had an angle regardless of
the cost to others. I learned the hard way just how far she was willing to go.
Watching my sister in action over the years, I didn't trust her with all of my information about
David. I had seen her betray everyone around her. Yet, I really didn't think she would ever betray
me--but I couldn't be sure.

I kept thinking she has no conscience because of all the years of auditing and TRs. I thought she
would snap out of it and return to the woman I knew years before. She just hadn't adjusted yet; she
was still acting like a Scientologist attacking those around her. She was my sister after all. We had
many arguments over the years but we were family and I disconnected from her.
Still, I thought about what she used to be like before Scientology assuming she would always put
family first.
Then one day she threw me to the wolves. About five years ago, a police officer came to my
parents house and said he was investigating scientology crime stories on the internet. He asked me
about David. My mom immediately called LaVenda and asked her if she was stirring up things on
the internet. LaVenda denied it, said she was mellow now, living the country life, etc. I hadnt seen
LaVenda in about three years. My mom kept trying to get us to mend fences for the sake of the
family. Mom kept saying she was another person now in counseling, and finding herself. My mom
didnt know all that I had witnessed and wanted to believe her. Being that my Mom is a
psychotherapist, Lavenda always knew exactly how to manipulate her. When I went to Washington,
I saw LaVenda. She told me she was in counseling and wanted to talk about the past and anything I

could remember about the Scientology Org to help her fill in the blanks, because she was so
traumatized she couldnt remember. It was then we talked about Louie, Scott, Bob Harvey, etc.
Then I found out about Steven Fishmans Squirrel Book and the chapter nine about me. I saw
twisted lies mixed with truth and I was furious. I couldnt understand how he could write this and
get away with it. It had to be illegal. LaVenda said as long as he didnt make a profit he could write
whatever he wanted. This was a printed copy of written chapters, I didnt know about the Internet
yet. Steven Fishman was a name, I didnt recognize him until I saw his website, but Im jumping
ahead.
In his LaVenda chapter there were several lies I would like to get into now because I get mad every
time I read it and Im tired of people saying things to me like, "Oh, Youre the one who was
drugged and gang-raped by Scientologists! That was a lie. Why LaVenda and Steven wrote that I
will get into later. Also, as I explained earlier I was not living with Louie when he died. Louie was
already with Pat and I was with David. Steven also wrote that he was stealing documents while I
was being raped as my illegitimate son was in his crib. My son was not illegitimate. Trying to figure
out why, I can only assume someone wanted to project an image of a traumatized girl should I ever
sue, Scientology knew from my auditing that I had nervous breakdown at 16 years old. They also
knew I was traumatized by torture and rape. You see the Psychiatrist that helped me when I was 16
was the same psychiatrist Chuck and Maddy wanted me to discredit for money years later. The only
thing I read in Stevens book I know for sure is the truth was the affair he had with LaVenda when
he was working for O. S. A year earlier. Adjusting to the news about his Squirrel book was
infuriating enough but then came the sledgehammer.
At the time, LaVenda was still claiming she was not seeing Steven again, but I knew she was lying
about something. I started to put two and two together. One day I called her house and her
roommate, Don told me she was out of town. When I asked where, he replied he couldnt say, I
knew LaVenda was up to her old tricks again. She hadnt said anything to me about going out of
town. I didnt know anything about computers at the time so I asked John, Sabrinas boyfriend, to
help me find out information on the net. He located Alt. Religion. Scientology and showed me how
to access websites.
I found Steven Fishmans Website. On his website, he had a section on murders and suicides. He
listed David Sandweiss but claimed I actually witnessed his death. I couldnt believe my eyes. I
read it again and everything went white. My hand started shaking on the mouse. Beyond furious and
kicking myself for telling her about the last time I saw him alive. I fell for the whole scam and gave
her just enough info to F--k with my life. I had to think. Was she still trying to force me into a
lawsuit against Scientology? Had she figured out a way to make money off info she got from me?
Or did she want me dead? Thank God, I had seen her in action to much too ever completely trust
her. I needed a plan. A few days to figure out what to do.
The first thing I did was borrow a shotgun from my landlord. Then I made sure my son went to stay
with friends in a place where he could never be located. Next, I called James and told him I needed
someone to watch the house. Within the hour a man drove up in a Toyota four-wheeler, He looked
like a cross between Bill Cody and Billy the kid. He was wearing a black leather coat. He showed
me the slim shotgun inside and said, Hi, Im Rob. James sent me. Where do you want me to be and
what do you need? I had the right guy. I could think now. I knew I didnt want to move again if I

could avoid it and my son really liked his school. I had to find out why she did this. What was her
motive for involving me? How can I keep these people from destroying my life? As far as I knew I
was alone, and I didnt want any future problems with Scientology. So I went straight to the source.
I wrote a letter, had it notarized and faxed it to their Scientology Lawyers assuring them I had no
intention of suing over Davids death. Then I called Lori Bartelson, asked her if they got my letter,
she acknowledged that they had, and I said. "Can you tell me if my sister is suing again or
something?Have you seen her? (LaVenda had said she was going to sue because Mike Flynn
ripped her off of her final settlement) Lori said, I saw your sister in court today, with Steven
Fishman. When my sister returned and called me, I told her I knew she was in L. A with Steven
Fishman. There was a long pause then she said, yeah they crucified him with their thirteen lawyers.
I told her about the letter I sent them letting them know I did not intend to go into court against
them. She blew a gasket. Later I discovered she stole personal papers, phonebooks and my Library
card. I filed a police report against her when I learned $1,500.00 in library books had been stolen
with my card, and it would go on a credit report. I also learned later that someone had used my
identity. I havent seen her since. I left the state, but she wasnt done yet.
In the spring of 1999, I had just started pursuing a metaphysical spirituality. I landed an audition for
a cruise swing/jazz band with a Bandleader I had admired for years, and life was fairly quiet. I
stopped by my moms house one day and she made a comment about how strange my sister was
acting. My inner alarm went off. I decided to go check out the library internet access. I entered her
name and immediately connected with Arnie Lermas website. I started to read about how his
girlfriend Victoria had disappeared after LaVenda had showed up in town with some story
regarding a threat on Arnies life. The way he wrote, I felt he was sincere. I decided to call. He was
frantic, worried sick about Victoria. We talked for quite a while. I decided to give him all the
numbers I had of LaVendas old friends and in-laws etc. I realized while we talked he was the guy
in uniform from 1973. What a trip! The last time I saw him I couldnt tell him about my plans to
escape and he turns out to be one of their biggest critics.
We talked for some time by phone and e-mail. After a while, I decided to move here. I decided to
keep it to myself for a while knowing my parents would not be happy with any connection to the
anti-Scientology movement. Telling my parents was not easy. My Father told me I was insane,
(twice) my mother cried and my brother told me he was going to tie me to a chair to stop me.
Naturally, once LaVenda found out she called all of them, told them all kinds of lies about Arnie,
and tried to stop me. I had to wonder what else she didnt want me to know. Once I was packed on
my way. My brother tried everything he could to stop me. He said, Cant you find someone who
isnt an ex-scientology critic? Lavenda says he is a rapist and you will end up in the closet. I tried to
explain to him that he did not have all the facts and LaVenda was just trying to cover her tracks. I
had to go. There was something there for me, and if I didnt go, I would always wonder if I should
have. He said what if you regret this? What if you are wrong? I said," I wont mind coming back to
Florida with regrets, better than wondering the rest of your life if you should have taken a chance."
He finally relented and I was on my way.
Arnie had told me some things about the critic movement, but I was completely unprepared and
proceeded to step on toes. I had a lot to learn. Arnie looked the same but with silver sideburns and
still arrogant. I started sorting the ghosts of the past, and Arnie introduced me to the "Real OT

Powers". My roommate was Scott Mayer (former Fleet Captain for L. Ron Hubbard).He was very
kind to me, a good man with keen intellect. He told me about his last encounter with LaVenda. He
thought she was a friend. She set him up in Chehalis, Washington. He thought he was going down
to live with her and investigate Scientology activities there. He wound up getting thrown out and
dealing with trumped-up charges of child molesting, luckily the police had a clue and it was never
prosecuted. He was left in the winter weather homeless, but he tuned it to his advantage and started
working for a homeless shelter and informing the public about Scientology. It took its toll on his
health but I think all those years of "making it go right" helped.
I started meeting some of the critics, and I learned I really wasnt alone out there, feeling like I was
the only one who had bad experiences with Scientology. I found out there was a network of
Scientology Critics all over the country. Some of the most creative, intelligent, and strong I have
ever known. This was a whole different lifestyle. I started meeting all different kinds of people.
(Some were not thrilled that I was LaVendas sister, but most were fair)Some of the critics
emanated great strength, others still operated like O. S. A in constant attack mode, some constantly
paranoid, and some with good reason to be paranoid. Some without the ability to love (Love is not
part of the Scientology tone scale) and some with complete insensitivity to the feelings of others. (A
symptom of long term TRs and auditing) It always amazes me when I meet an adult 40 or fifty year
old that still has the emotional maturity of a teenager although I understand why now. One time
when I complained to Arnie about a very childish woman that was giving me a hard time, he said
"Lisa I am trying to build an army, only some of the soldiers have broken heads, some have broken
bones, and some have broken minds." Lesson One.
I started to view things from a different perspective. It has been a privilege to associate with men
and women who define courage. Since Ive been here, Ive gone to battle with a few. Because of my
own feelings when I would read the Fishman version of "my story" on another web page, I started
asking people to remove the lies re: the gang rape and Davids death. Some thought I was O. S. A, I
was accused of being an angry person, some cooperated, and some questioned Arnies judgment
Im sure. You see. I was angry. Every time I read it. Nobody ever asked me. It was a juicy story but
the truth will bring down Scientology. To be fair Im sure LaVenda never offered my address and
phone to any of the critics either.
Since Ive been here Ive had about eight flat tires, I carry picket signs in my car and walked out to
find a smashed car window. Ive had harassing calls at work and home and I have been harassed by
a homeless guy twice now. Actually, I expected much worse knowing the fate of Victoria and
Scientology patterns.
I had only been here a few months, Arnie was out of town when two F. B. I. agents came to the
door investigating a phoned in bomb threat. I almost started laughing when they said it and they
knew it was a set-up. I explained a lot of things to them. Arnie and friends were saying blackout on
the net (meaning no more info) until they could expose secret documents for the net. Suddenly an
anonymous phone call turns one statement into a bomb threat. I let the F.B.I agents look around and
they saw what was really going on. They even took flyers and info packs with them.
I will never forget New Years Day 2000 when Arnie was in the newspaper for exposing the phony
Scientology New Years Eve celebration pictures that had been doctored up to look like it was

packed with people. The next day Arnie looked out the front window smiled and said,"I guess I
ticked someone off." (Well he didnt say ticked.) We went out the front door and someone had
burned rubber all the way to the front door, the tracks were so deep in the grass they stayed for
months. I guess we were supposed to get scared, it only served to remind Arnie he created the effect
he wanted.
One time Arnie and I went to a meeting set up by Scientologist's at the Senate Building. They were
having alot of trouble in foreign countries and trying to get sympathy claiming "Religious bigotry
and Intolerance." Arnie wore a nice blue suit with a "SCIENTOLOGY KILLS" T-shirt underneath
his jacket. We knew we were not allowed to hand out flyers but there was no rule against having
them in your lap, should someone ask. Yet the Scientologists were handing out their info packs as
you entered the meeting room. It was packed with the media. The man at the door recognized Arnie
and tried to prevent us from entering. I told him, "This is a public meeting you can't stop us," and he
relented. They had their token actress Anne Archer there to speak. You had to feel sorry for her.
About halfway through the meeting, Arnie casually stood up and took off his jacket. They went
ballistic. A Police Captain came over and asked Arnie to come with him to the hall. I thought they
would arrest him so I went out too. By the time Arnie finished with him and the other Officer, they
were asking for flyers and Internet info. I had to admit the guy could weave magic.
Whenever I hear the word "clams, (the critic word for "Scientologist") I think about the first picket
I went to. Hot as hell in the summer. We all decided to take a lunch break and to walk across the
street to a restaurant. We sat in the patio and watched OSA out there waiting for us to come back.
Sylvia Stannard was sitting on the cement walk in shorts waiting for us. After lunch, Arnie kept
saying "hold on, lets wait a while" finally he said "wait, I think Sylvia is looking pretty pink now
just a bit more and well head back. Donny said, "Is that what you call a clambake"? She looked
very sunburned.
Jim always causes a fuss when he brings his "Honk, if Scientology Sucks" sign, the public loves it!
When I started to picket, at first I reacted a lot. Arnie clued me in. At the Lisa McPherson
Candlelight Vigil Picket, Scientologys OSA handlers cussed at me and said vile things about
Arnie. Sometimes there were 3 or 4 of them on me at one time. I started to lose my temper a few
times, but Nuke calmed me down. She said you have to feel bad for them they are victims too. I
thought, how can I do that when they are screaming in my face? I didnt fully understand.
Then she lit candles and we did a special candlelight vigil for Lisa McPherson. Out of Nuke, a small
woman with a calm manner came a booming voice, I dont know where it came fromshe didnt
need a speaker. I was amazed by her effect on everyone.
As we crossed the road when we left, the OSA handlers were still screaming things at us, she said
again you have to feel sorry for them, they are victims of mind control. I was in overwhelm with
their nastinessthat was my second lesson in the critic world.
The critics are a combination of all people. Some are long-term ex-Scientologists. Some have never
been in Scientology. Some are there out of concern for friends or family in the cult and some are
dealing with the death of a cult member. They all have three things in common:

1.. A clue
2.. A desire to warn the public
3.. Guts of steel
I have to mention "Mom" or Ida Camburn. She has been fighting Scientology for years, trying to
wake up the public. Hoping she can see her son again. She is mom to everyone on the
ScientologyLIES chat channel. I want to be like her .She always has something nice to say to people
even though she is dealing with incredible stress from constant Scientology attack. Sometimes it is
stressful on channel hearing that one of your friends has just gone to jail, or dragged through court
by scientology but humor helps. From now on whenever I hear "Tiptoe through the Tulips" running
over and over in my brain I think of Druid.
You might say, "I would never be stupid enough to join a cult" Well, you have to understand the
deception used and how mind control works. They call themselves a "religion". They lead you to
believe in the beginning that no matter what your weakness is Scientology can help you with that. I
remember a young man in 73 that was taking courses to get over shyness and stuttering. Another
man was in a wheelchair and believed with enough "auditing" he could walk again. He mortgaged
his home for that dream.
I would like to touch on the "auditing" side of Scientology. I have read a lot of theories and heard a
lot of discussion about the negative effects of auditing. Of course associating with long-term exScientologists showed me the lack of ability to love and insensitivity to the feelings of others that
many have exhibited to me. It reminds me a little of Hitler and the mind-control experiments he
used to create his own robots, he even used methods to wipe out emotions. A strict regimen of his
forces helped him to take over and murder millions.
Our own government has done research on mind control. Why dont they get a clue? After all, in
1982 L. Ron Hubbards wife, Mary Sue and 11 others were convicted and sent to prison in the
largest domestic spying case in history. (Scientology claims they have gotten rid of all the bad
apples now).
If thats the case, why is Hebrew Jentsch (President of Scientology) facing criminal charges in
Spain? How is it the Greeks found top secret NATO secrets in the Scientology files?
Why did the Russians raid Scientology files in 1998?
Why does Germany consider Scientology a threat to their constitution and place them under
surveillance?
Belgium raids, etc. the list goes on.
Its a little scary when I think back to 1973 and someone saying, "We want to clear the planet".
Anyway, so much for the rant. (Ive been hanging out with Lerma a lot).

I have already covered the "PC files" The first thing Scientology collects from you in case they need
to use it against you later.
I need to talk about the physical reactions of auditing. There has been a lot of individual research
(inspired by critics not the government) I have heard a lot of debate about it. I know Arnie has done
extensive research on electrical currents going through the body, Nordenstrom is a good source and
Steve CT in England asked his country to get involved after he lost a good friend of his died while
in the cult of Scientology. He has done extensive research.
Yet our own government doesnt appear to be interested in the fact that the e-meter used in auditing
is strong than a tens unit used by therapists and chiropractors for back pain. If they have limits on
that, why doesnt the government take notice when Scientology recently upgraded the charge?
Oh, was I ranting again?
I have heard that the real secret to Scientology is the e-meter that after a while, the charge you get is
similar to an endorphin release runners get from a lot of exercise and its actually addictive.
Something to ponder.
Personally, I was hoping that several of the long-term ex-Scientologists that are now facing cancer
would get together and sue Scientology but it would be a hard thing to prove that auditing causes
cancer. The fact is many Scientologists I met chain smoked under stress, but if you could get the
non-smokers together, wouldnt that be something?
Then again, it might drag up questions some like buried like power lines on schools.
I think Scientologys biggest weapon is fear. The fear of being destroyed by them. Or the fear of
having your family attacked in some way for speaking out.
I am writing this for several reasons. I am trying to explain to the average (layman) how
Scientology works. I want everyone to know where Im coming from and Im hoping someone,
somewhere will tell me about Davids final days and what really happened.
I know now that four months before David died, Quentin Hubbard was found dead in his car.
The Las Vegas police ruled it suicide.
Did David know too much? Did L Ron Hubbard hate having a gay son that much? I dont care if
David chose a gay lifestyle. I want to know if he was blackmailed into cooperating and he just
couldnt take it anymore or he was ordered to kill himself because he was no longer useful to the
cult, or someone else pulled the trigger. And on a deeper level, I would like to know if there was
any joy in his life before he died. Did he find love? Did he forget that he would always be loved
regardless of the choices he made?
I think sooner or later that it will all come out.

My sister and Scientology knew about me to play on my fears. The comments about the closet and
rape were used to intimidate me. Yes, I have had lots of psychiatric counseling and Im not ashamed
of that. I needed it to put my life back together. I am usually a very private person but since my life
has been dragged across the web, I want to make some things very clear, should I have future
problems for writing this. I do not have a criminal record so if Im ever busted for drugs (like Jesse
Prince was of the Lisa McPherson Trust) I would like that noted and hope someone does a fair
investigation.
Also, I am more centered than I have ever been in my life and have no desire to kill myself should I
wind up dead. Again, I hope my death would be investigated.
In 1999, before I drove up here to join Arnie, my brother asked me if it was worth it. What if I was
wrong, the answer is no, it wasnt worth it to cause stress on my family. I had no right to do that.
Yes, it was worth gaining the strength I have now and a new understanding of my world.
Since I am not afraid of Scientology anymore and Im not afraid to die.
I recently found an old journal of mine, with a list from the spring of 1999, just before I located
Arnie on the Internet. I had just heard that LaVenda was acting strange again. My immediate
reaction was "Ohwhat is she doing now? Will she give Scientology some reason to hassle me?"
I went home and started a list. The pros and cons of uprooting my life. Should I move? Should I get
ready to be a nomad again? I had just landed the singing job for cruise ships. Should I give that up?
Should I sing under another name? I was reacting with fear I wrote go to the Internet find out what
is going on. The last thing on the list said, "How does the mouse become the cat?" I came here to
find out. Arnie Lerma taught me how.
Lisa Gibson

Back to the Seventies - the deaths of

Scientologists David Sandweiss and Louie
Pagliaro
I think enough time has gone by. It is time give out the facts
about my story First, no one that ever webbed my story as
provided by my sister Lavenda or Steven Fishman ever asked me
what happened. They took the word of my sister and assumed
Steven Fishman was telling the truth in his "book" Lonesome
Squirrel" and on his web site Regarding Louie Pagliaro I dated
Louie for a short time when I was on staff in HCO [HCO in what
scientologists call the "ethics" department that also sends mail out
and routes mail coming in] at Las Vegas [scientology] org.

Louie was not on staff but was a public "OT"

I was told to stop seeing him because he was not a 'staff member'.
I did so He had a problem with that and I heard later he requested a refund and started questioning
OT levels.
He told me that he had spent 50,000 in Scientology going up the bridge I had been on staff about 4
months.
It was there that I met my future husband David Sandweiss He had been in Scientology for years
We both left Scientology and got married Sometime later. Chuck and Madeline Maddy' Reese of
the Go [Guardians Office now called OSA] came to out to our apartment.
They wanted us to ruin the career of a local Psychiatrist Chuck Reese made the comment that I
could be driving a Cadillac just like he did.
In the meantime, Louie Pagliaro had started living with an OT Showgirl named Pat.
She went on the road with the show. I heard they had befriended a homeless man.
Louie was later found murdered.
Cut up and stuffed in a plastic bag in his living room the police were looking for the "homeless guy"
Later, David called me one day from a hotel, said he had been gambling all day met a rich guy and
his friend and they invited us to join them for dinner and a show.
I joined them and it was all very weird...They gave us a room; they made us uncomfortable all
evening. One of them kept looking angry, kind of pouting. I recognized him later as Quentin
Hubbard.
The next day David confessed he had 'had sex' with one of the guys. That afternoon before I arrived,
when I asked him if he wanted a Gay lifestyle he said no. He was a little drunk, and things got out
of hand....
After that, our marriage fell apart. He had decided to work for the Guardians Office, now called
'OSA" and we went our separate ways.
He had decided to work for the Guardians Office, now called 'OSA" and we went our separate
ways.
But we wrote letters to each other as friends A few years later, I was traveling from Florida to
Seattle
I had a connecting flight in Las Vegas and had some time to kill
Enough time to go visit my ex husband David

I knew his address from the letters

I decided to surprise him
I picked up a bottle of champagne and two glasses
I knocked on the door.
A very hostile man answered it.
He was not pleased to see me.. I told him who I was...
I thought he was hostile because I was an ex-scientologist
I could hear them talking discussing that I was there
I waited
5 minutes later, a second man brought David to the door
He looked sleepy, looked as if the other guy was helping him stand up straight For the first time
ever, David said some very cruel things to me and told me to leave I left the bottle of wine and the
glasses I had brought at the front door With a note that said "have a nice life " Lisa David was a
good man I went to the front of building and called a cab I heard someone running over the rocks,
and I thought David had changed his mind.. and then I realized it was the two guys from David's
apartment I stepped back into the bushes and waited for them to leave
I heard one of them say "Look over here"
I hid in bushes until they went back inside.
I realized then that David said those mean things to protect me
After I arrived in Seattle Washington and then heard that David Sandweiss, my ex-husband had
blown his brains out. I also found out years later that David died 2 months after Quentin was found
dead in his car "in the desert"
For years I thought I was alone and never told anyone until 1996 when I thought I needed to protect
my sister Lavenda She took my story and twisted things around and used it to gain credibility with
Arnie Lerma She stole my identity, and made him think she was me Also at the time she was
associating with Steven Fishman again - who in my opinion has worked both sides of the street for
many years just as Lavenda. worked both sides of the street Think what you wish the whole of the
truth will all come out sooner or later Lisa Gibson PS: In 1996 while I was on the web I also saw a
picture of Steven Fishman He was the same man in the hotel that night with Quentin Hubbard I
heard rumors David was Quentin's lover for some time, i don't believe it When I saw Quentin, he
was very sad.
(c) 2000 Lisa Gibson
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
I'd prefer to die speaking my mind than live fearing to speak.
The only thing that always works in scientology are its lawyers
The internet is the liberty tree of the 90's