Hi All, 93 There's a distinct difference in the definition of the Black & White Brotherhoods in Thelemic philosophy.

As the White Brotherhood is rather well defined in the Student College files, I'll direct your attention there for more information on the subject. And I'll concern myself with the Black Lodge. This is not a group of evil guys looking to destroy the world. Indeed it is not anyone at all. It is a rather nebulous force that seemingly works against our evolutionary development. Science teaches us that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. So as the Aspirant reaches forward, he or she is met with a force that pushes back. It's really that simple. How then does one become a 'dupe' of the Black Lodge? This happens because of the egregore of the collective mass of people on this planet that are themselves in spiritual stagnation. That egregore runs through the planet with the force of the spring winds. And it is the principal reason why the Probationer is taught the Star Ruby. With its consistent working, one has the chance of at least getting that wind to run over and around your psychic bubble. But one may forget the Christist conditioning within oneself from the earliest childhood. It's a potent obstacle as they worst enemy is usually within. We are each our own worst enemy. Projecting that outward reconnects the psyche with the egregore and serves to destroy spiritual progress. Note that there are people called 'Black Brothers'. They are Adepts who have failed to successfully cross the Abyss. In other words, they found out that they are God...but they've retained their egoity in this experience and have not connected with the Universal Menstruum (Nuit) and so are deluded into concluding that they are the only God. This is a morbid loneliness and is why it is said that the failed Babe of the Abyss lands in the 'Lonely Towers of the Abyss'. But indeed, both the Black Brothers and the Black Lodge still serve in the evolution of humanity. The Black Lodge does this by helping us to sharpen our metal as without that adversity, there would be no impetus for us to move forward. And the Black Brother serves in much the same way as the Master of the Temple. Only the Black Brother serves despite his or her will, unconscious of the true nature of the Universe. 93/93 pj Well, I have played at the Black Lodge and I can tell you IFyou do not get in unless you have soul.( That's a play on words people) But if you dont have the blues in your soul You aint welcome there. On the other hand if you have got those deep down soul, Then it dont matter if your black or white.( Music) Therefore is the great Equalizer. Now Likewise If the Black brotherhood (Of which you speak) Had the soul I presume they also would be welcome in the White. But as they do not, They Are not welcome (Notice the Segwey there)

You might equate the abyss with no Soul to get a translation factor. Regards [email protected] That egregore runs through the planet with the force of the spring winds. Now that's something really different, I never heard of that before - do you write further on this in any particular article on your website? (I want to read!) Creeping upon speculation here, the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram once used to banish old aeonic forces is now old aeonic itself, could that have to do with the directions and the winds? 93 Cammy
This is becoming more interesting to me by the second... Ok, remember the theory about inertia? So when something becomes old aeonic, it adds to the egregore (or perhaps the egregore gets "recycled"), and it isn't strong enough anymore to push back. IT'S NOT HERCULES ANYMORE!!! (OR ATLAS FOR THAT MATTER) 93 Cammy

93 Hi Cammy, I think the reason the LBRP is old aeonic (well one of the reasons) is because it's realm is on Earth. Whereas the Star Ruby takes place on a higher realm. This is due to the archangels called during the LBRP (old version). When you do the Star Ruby you are higher up the tree so there is no point of calling archangels which would be done in Malkuth. Another reason the LBRP is old aeonic is because it is Golden Dawn based, and those core rituals are not tapped into the new aeon. But that is just my interpretation, I might be seeing it wrong. I have been wrong before ;) 93/93 -Lynette

that's true, i had forgetten about that...and it gives me some insight as to the relation of the winds/directions to the Tree of Life in progressing from Malkuth (they change if you are making contact with a different astral realm). 93 Cammy Hi Cammy, 93 In my article: Reign of the Demiurge, I extrapolate Motta's writings on the egregore. But note, the LBR was never intended to banish old aeonic forces. It shares the same purpose of the Star Ruby in that it clears a sacred space and is the first step to the exaltation of consciousness. The Star Ruby has the extra purpose of banishing old-aeonic forces as well. 93/93 pj Hi Cammy, 93 Actually, the egregore of the old aeon is far stronger than the young child of the new aeon...like an old man would be much stronger than an infant. It is part of the work of Thelema to nurture this young child...this young aeon. Yet all the children can do at this point is squabble amongst themselves. 93/93 pj
Hi Runar, 93 I've copied a post by David R. Jones of his scrying and am curious about your take on it. For me, it was a fascinating read. The transcription immediately shows me that these entities are fucking with Jones. For example: [All before me is smoke and fire and a stench of burning garbage. The voice again: "this is the ever burning fire the torment of the damned." And the voice laughs as if there is some joke that no one gets but him. And now the smoke clears and I see that it is a garbage fire and there are burning tires and people sifting through the piles that feed the flames.] Their bellowing metaphysical jibberish also includes some lines that are deliberate contradictions of various spiritual doctrines adds yet another level to this. The overall tone of the vision is demiurgic, buying into the idea that the New Testament as interpreted by the Roman Church is a true testament, For example: ["The immolation of the flame is the fire of Pentecost and the weight of the stone is the joy of the work and the edge of the blade is the truth of the argument but the baptism of water is the cleansing of the soul. (to this Jones comments: Here are the elements as both curses and

blessing. The place is the valley of Hinon, Gehenna in traditional readings of the scriptures.)] Yet inside it there is also a few revelatory truths...for example: [And a voice deep and manly in my right ear: "St. Joan and Bruno were burnt for their truth, but cried not in agony for the truth can only be spoken with silence." ] There are a few more examples of each that can be found in the text...and a good bit of jibberish in between. And we know that Jones is comfortable here as his 'Pact' would lower his threshhold of disgust. Yet, the Black Lodge that is speaking through him, must also serve. hmmm.... 93/93 pj ===================== > I would generally say, that scrying the aethyrs would be safe. If you want to perform some kind of initiatory ritual, you may want to read your way through the keys first. I am currently doing it right now and the effects are a bit milder than direct scrying. If you feel ready, then go ahead, but some aethyrs were a bit hard to deal with, as I am sure some will be to you. This is good advice. You might want to practice a bit with rising on the planes. For some good beginning work I would suggest Ophiel's little book The Art and Practice of Astral Projection and Achad's Crystal Vision. Here's an oldy of mine from the period around the Black Lodge period to give you some ideas regarding the results to be expected. Though I had been at it a few years by this point, it was part of my Neophyte work. Love Jones ZEN I see the planet Jupiter in the night sky brighter than any star Through a four pane window suspended in space. And a silent voice in my head: "Pisces was the fish of christos but the Southern fishes are the fishes of the antichristos." [1] And I hear a voice. "Did not the Romans sow the fields of Tunis with Salt?" and another "Tomorrow we shall be in Paradise." And another "are not the kings of Edom the princes of Hell." [2] All before me is smoke and fire and a stench of burning garbage. The voice again: "this is the ever burning fire the torment of the damned." And the voice laughs as if there is some joke that no one gets but him. And now the smoke clears and I see that it is a garbage fire and there are burning tires and people sifting through the piles that feed the flames. And in the distance I can see the Dome of the Rock far away upon a hill and behind a great wall. But the flames still glint of the gold of the Dome. And a voice deep and manly in my right ear: St. Joan and Bruno were burnt for their truth, but cried not in agony for the truth can only be spoken with silence" and again: "by the crushing of stones were the demons displaced;" and again "who has been slain by the sword of the executioner is martyred for God;" and yet again "only the innocent drown in the watery grave." Now another voice clear by fey and faint in my left ear: "The immolation of the

flame is the fire of Pentecost and the weight of the stone is the joy of the work and the edge of the blade is the truth of the argument but the baptism of water is the cleansing of the soul. [3] Beyond the city is a hill and upon the hill many crosses. [4] But all the crosses are empty save for a serpent coiled upon one of them. The voice "I.N.R.I. Iota Nu Rho Iota" (by this I understand that the first Iota is a skull and Nu is death and Rho is the Sun rising and the Iota is a seed that though buried as dead is heated by the Sun and sends forth shoots into a new life to capture the rays of the Sun). [5] Again there is a whisper: "The Tablet of Union is the garment of Christ and the Black Cross of Union is the cross upon which all who are called adepts have been crucified." [6] A scroll is unfurled upon which is written: "Multiplicity = Unity And Unity = Multiplicity." [7] Now I see 4 men clothed as the 4 Knights of the Tarot and they seem to be playing a strange game with 3 dice. The first voice: "You cannot work without the 1st and the 2nd." The second voice: "But by casting the three may the 3rd to the 18th be chosen." [8] Now they rip the cloak into 4 pieces [9] and first piece turns red and bloodied and is cast into the East: "Thou shalt not live by blood alone." And the second part turns white and brilliant and is cast to the South: "Thus were they blinded and could not see." And the third part turns green and scaly and is cast toward the West: "the wisdom of the serpent is the curse of God." And the fourth part turns black as midnight and is thrown into the North: "And in the darkness of the night is the truth of the stars revealed." [10] Now a thick fog covers all and the stars disappear one by one, until none are left but the pole star. And it becomes brighter and brighter. And now I see that it is a candle flame in a cave or tomb. In the Midst of the tomb is a great sarcophagus; upon the lid of which is graven the Tablet of Union in Enochian characters. And upon each letter is a weapon or an idol. A A A A spear: "This is the spear that pierced his side." cup: "This is the cup he could not pass." coin: "This is the coin that hung his brother." club: "This is the phallus that mocks us all." [11]

And the idols are like Roman household gods and each one is painted Like one of the court cards in the Thoth deck. [the Tablet is laid over as follows] Spear Cup Coin Club PeS PeC PeD PeW QnS QnC QnD QnW PsS PsC PsD PsW KtS KtC KtD KtW

[12]

A wind passers through the midst. "The Spirit is the breath that God breathed into Adam." [13]

Now all is animate and the idols cavort and converse, but I can hear nothing but scraping and chatter. The Prince of Swords spins about and now he is the Green Man, the Fool but covered with a suit of leaves and horned with the rack of an elk. He takes up the spear and as he spins his horns turn into wings and Then into a top hat. And the shaft, he took up, he puts down a sword. And the Queen next to him takes up the sword and he seats her upon an altar stone, and she removes her garment for they are Lovers and this is the true sacrament of marriage. Now her daughter takes up her blue and starry cloak and disappears as it were into the body of the milky way. But the Knight kneels in reverence before that mystery then takes up His sword in one hand and a pair of balances in the other and stands erect. Now I see the cup and in it is the blood of Judas the Hanged Man, the brother of Jesus. Who sold him that he might be crucified for the eagle of Rome. And in this cup is a bitter poison, the vehicle of death, for now I see that the wings of the eagle upon which the Prince of Swords rides are the wings of Azrael, the angel of Death. For the Moon is to Death as the Sun is to life. Thus are the sorceries done in the graveyard at midnight under a full moon. And the Queen of Cups is the Priestess of the Moon as the Queen of Swords is the Priestess of the Sun: "The Priestess is the crone who playeth the virgin and the Moon Is the virgin who acteth the crone." Now her daughter is mother as she comes to term, fertile Empress of all she surveys, Goddess ever fruitful. Hers is the true Graal, guarded and carried by the true Knight, dank with the scent of urchins and crabs. She is the Chariot that he rides and within that cup is fate, called fortuna: the roulette wheel spun by the hand of the demiurge. Now that Wheel becomes the Coin and the coin changes from gold to Silver to lead. And upon the face of the lead circle is a sun dial. And there is a nymph or fairy who dances with the rays of the Sun upon the sundial. And she sings: "Thy father time is a great serpent, but I his daughter is also his wife." I see now that the heavens are a great clock and this is why the Prince of Disks worshipped the bull. For Taurus was the season for ploughing and sowing. Now he stands on great rock and bows before the bull of heaven. He is clothed in garments of gold and scarlet and horsecloth and cries: "Cursed was Copernicus and cursed was Bruno and cursed was Galileo, for they revealed the mystery of the heavens unto men. And the Sabbath is black that the initiated may worship the stars. Now I see the Queen and she is seducing the goat. And the goat bleats: "This is the blasphemy of which the Mass is but a mockery." And the daughter of their union is horned and monstrous but from her virgin womb bursts forth the Sun into a new life. And the fields of Eleusis are fertile again, though the grain be tainted with black. The Knight goes into the field and with his club he threshes the grain; and is happy and fat on bread and beer. So that he lays his club aside. Now the club is the phallus and the phallus is the wand, the rod of judgement when the Final Trump is blown. For the Prince of Wands rides the lion and the lion is the great beast and the Emperor and tyrant who rules with the rod of iron. He that is the sun of the Queen, she who tempers all things by the art, her cup a cauldron wherein all dross is

burnt away. But her daughter is the bride of her own brother. Babalon who rides upon the Beast, in love taboo. And they go forth as a Knight and his lady, toward the dark tower which cannot stand. A voice: "And they said let us go build us a Tower."

And there is an earthquake and a spewing forth of flame and smoke and lava. And all comes crumbling down and is darkness. And the voice again: "Therefore is the name of it called Babel."

There is no more vision and no more voice. Analysis ZEN 1. Z here shows Zain as Jupiter but reflects Jove as ruler, i.e. Emperor (Tzar, Kaiser, Caesar etc.) therefore Tzaddi as star and not star. The Widow is E as Heh. Pisces, Christ and the disciples as fishers of men (cf. the typical graven image that graces many Christian automobiles and the Southern Fishes is probably an allusion to Fomalhaut as the ayanamsa for the age of Aquarius. 2. These are the voices of the three governors of the aire apparently. The first rules over Carthage, the second over Paradise and the Edom. (Turner, Elizabethan Magic 168). There is probably more here as the first is a reference to the Punic wars where Rome defeated Carthage which would ultimately lead to their hegemony over the Levant. The first is a play on Christ words on the cross (Luke 23) which like the Romans plays so large a part in this vision. The last is a traditional cabalistic explanation for early biblical history in the Zohar and elsewhere. 3. Here are the elements as both curses and blessing. The place is the valley of Hinon, Gehenna in traditional readings of the scriptures. 4. Golgotha, Calvary. 5. The analysis of INRI would seem to substitute the meaning of the Hebrew letters for the values of the Greek. There are several Mysteries here that it is not appropriate to reveal to the profane. Those of certain grades in A.'.A.'. and degrees in O.T.O. will easily discern them though. 6. This shows how the Tablet of Union binds and rules the watchtowers. More anon. See also Liber 860: The Prologue regarding the Great Obligation. 7. Liber 777: CLXXXVII: 0.

8. This is an allusion to Math 27:35, Luke 32:34. There is a method implied by which one can explore the keys without recourse to the Watchtowers. For with three dice the total value can only be between 3 and 18. For instance 1+1+1 = 3, 1+1+2 = 4, 1+1+3 & 1+2+2 = 5 and so forth to 6+6+6 = 18.

9.

John 19:23.

10. Cf. Kelly's visions of the Watchtowers for this color scheme (T&FR 168-173, James Enochian Magic xi, 187-8). 11. Spades = Swords, Hearts = Cups, Diamonds = Disks, Wands = Clubs

12. This is simply the Thoth deck court attributions correlated to the Golden Spirit Tablet attributions. 13. Spirit is of course air and breathe in their purest forms. aspirate etc. To

14. By careful reading here a direct correlation of the Aces and Court cards (and thus the squares of the Tablet of Union) with the Trumps can be established. As there are 22 Trumps and only 20 squares on the Tablet of Union there are two overlaps (at least) but as will be seen these are rather obvious in practice. Aces & Court cards AS AC AD AW Trumps I. XII. XXI. XX. 0. XIII. V. IV. VI. XVII. II./ XVIII. III. XV. XIX. XIV. XI. VIII. VII./ X. IX. XVI. PeS PeC PeD PeW QnS QnC QnD QnW PsS PsC PsD PsW KtS KtC KtD KtW

93 Hi Paul. I am sorry (eh- not really) that I simply cannot get myself to study his text in depth, as it contains so many elements of biblic traditions that obviously is connected to the energies he is presented, - but he give no other clues to what kind of energies, than his bibliotic narratry. On aethyr scrying as every other kind of scrying, there is some default mode that turns out if not anything else is requested: The names used, calls the energies connected with the name, and if there have been no aquaintance with this before; the current will unveil itself by symbols. When an aethyr is understood and duly integrated, the aethyr appears empty, but its not. Its filled with the clear and unambigous energy that it was the first time. In order that one shall perceive the current clear and directly, the symbols works upon one, and folds out misunderstandings, presents ways and motives that can help one in raising oneself within that particular reality. The symbols are mediators between us and ideal frequenzies. I did the Zen aethyr in 93/94 and I recall that I was told to forget everything that I read. (Crowleys vision and voice - i assumed) The

experience was then also very different from his, while in other aethyrs I experienced similar things. I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb, but within enochian context in the whole aethyr, The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens, corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid, and that again corresponds to the personal spine. Its within the mental body, and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing. Those powers are amazing and too powerful, It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing. Thats what I consider to be its essence; spine power: The personal Pyramid. Who would guess so from Jones report? But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic; If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it, you will have to remove the obstacles. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. The fire kept on aching for a year. Everyday. My conclusion upon skimming the text of Jones again is that he is not finished yet of unfolding its reality. It may be that the grail thing and the clubstuff have some similiarities to my Nut and Geb vision, but if it has; he can be the one to say so.

Hi Paul, 93 I tend to agree with you. I do not know David, but in speaking with him a little I did find out that he is Episcapalian Christian. He was trying to explain in the group one day how christianity and AL tie in. So it would fit that his visions have a christian overtone to them.. 93/93 John

Hi John & Runar, 93 It seems certain that the Christist undercurrent in the text is indicative of something not so wholesome. And I would combine this with his chaotic personality as further evidence of the affect of his work. This also shows up in the text. From there, it's known facts strewn in with gobbledy-gook and outright fallacies. And it's even interesting that nothing comes in Enochian. I don't see that he's talking to any legitimate spirit at all. 93/93 pj

Hi Runar, 93 Runar Karlsen <[email protected]> wrote: I am sorry (eh- not really) that I simply cannot get myself to study his text in depth, as it contains so many elements of biblic traditions that obviously is connected to the energies he is presented, - but he give no other clues to what kind of energies, than his bibliotic narratry. pj: John notes Jones' Christist background...an old aeonic current that he and even these other miscreants that control Thelemic discussion on the web, are swimming in. The net result of their behavior is that they suppress discussion on the web and threaten the dignity of everyone around them. This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with. Runar: Aethyr scrying as every other kind of scrying, there is some default mode that turns out if not anything else is requested: The names used, calls the energies connected with the name, and if there have been no aquaintance with this before; the current will unveil itself by symbols. pj: It seems to me like this would be an intelligent first-step into an Aethyr...kinda learn the layout of the land. The fact that as a current, perhaps even electro-magnetic, it produces symbols in the mind...seems a way to program the different mannas for a fuller experience of the particular Aethyr being worked with. Yet I find an interesting conundrum in observing that a few talking on the Enochian lists seem to skry any Aethyr without concern for the level of Initiation the Aethyr requires and even to the point where they think they've traversed the Aethyr. Crowley had some difficulty getting to higher Aethyrs as he had to wait for certain Initiations and he was told so by the Entities. And it's these same people (Jones and crew) that create these fantasias for themselves. Runar: When an aethyr is understood and duly integrated, the aethyr appears empty, but its not. Its filled with the clear and unambigous energy that it was the first time. In order that one shall perceive the current clear and directly, the symbols works upon one, and folds out misunderstandings, presents ways and motives that can help one in raising oneself within that particular reality. The symbols are mediators between us and ideal frequencies. pj: Interesting, this ties in with the electro-magnetic idea that I mentioned above. I think there's something profoundly related to this in the article I forwarded to this community the other day...cf. the message entitled: Porthole Method. It takes Mother's theory on the cells a step further and I think has some potential significance for the development of the Gnostic Mass.

Runar: I did the Zen aethyr in 93/94 and I recall that I was told to forget everything that I read. (Crowleys vision and voice - i assumed) The experience was then also very different from his, while in other aethyrs I experienced similar things. pj: That seems interesting...in other words, establish your own relationship with the current in light of the nature of your Initiation. Runar: I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb, but within enochian context in the whole aethyr, The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens, corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid, and that again corresponds to the personal spine. pj: This sounds fascinating...but what would you target as physical evidence of a spine in the Pyramids? Runar: Its within the mental body, and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing. Those powers are amazing and too powerful, It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing. pj: I think this is fascinating work...I'd love to see your diary entries on this. And I even think this is worth presenting on your site that others might benefit from this unique work. I think you would enjoy reading Satprem's 'Life of the Cells' in corollation with this. Runar: Thats what I consider to be its essence; spine power: The personal Pyramid. Who would guess so from Jones report? But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic; If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it, you will have to remove the obstacles. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. The fire kept on aching for a year. Everyday. pj: The "backfire" in its seemingly unescapable nature, certainly shows more why the Aethyr work has to be done very carefully and should not be entered into without the proper Initiatory preparation. With this in mind, we have further evidence of Jones' problem. But your experience of this and the way you handled what you were experience also speaks to this cell experience and adds a larger dimension to your overall experience. I'd love to hear more about this in detail. 93/93 pj In a message dated 12/09/2002 22:28:44PM, [email protected] writes:

<< This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with. Runar: You know Christist might not be the right term It is said that Yeshua Bar Yosef cast out demons. Solomon had control of Demons His throne said to be theplace where some were captured and Held In fact it seems to be rather well known The Apostles come bask and tell Jesus Hey there are others out there casttingout demons in your name and healing Jesus say Let them alone if they are not against us they are for us. Wise words You might be on the same side with the same goals or results? Are you reallythen on Opposite sides because you cannot agree (More interesting was Yeshua bar yosef a Chaos magician casting out Demons by the Use of the Tetragammeron the Holy Name of G-d>( Naming can be a powerful thing) If so he had a school and passed this down to His inner circle of 5 (Plus a Master (6 Most interesting no? So what would happen if say instead of the Name your using for something or a Ritual you changed it to say the Name of G-d Would he be invoked (Its an interesting idea) If he would raise fromthe Dead (Like LAzarus) Might not he also show his power in smaller ways If called upon. Even if it might not be what they would call the standard way? Regards [email protected]

Hi again and 93 ! I also should have said that the initiations in the aethyrs are very personalized, so that the symbols that unfolds is also partly that of the individual. If the Hga of the candidate belongs to a certain pantheon or culture; there is bound to be visits and clues to that in the visions. Its hard to see the legitimate spirit in his report, yes, but the text seems to outline a new ritual, or at least it looks like a scrapbook containing all the recipients, symbols and correspondences needed to create a rite. This have also been my policy in the later aethyr visits; to expand on the symbols given. To actually feign or in other way mistreat the aethyr intelligences, so that one can create a new and averse type of results is actually very difficult. But I have seen the attempts and heard about more, and I have felt the illwill directed towards the aethyrs for the last decade. But they do defend themselves by natural means. I have heard things like " I wasnt allowed to get inside before I rejected my ironic attitude" - meaning they would only pass on the sincere and essential, not the echoes of that person. The most typical failure is that one makes the call and doesnt find the aethyr, but is passed on to some cartoonic dreamland on the lower levels of subconscious suburbia. While the most hostile rejection I have heard about was that of one of the dupes of a real Black Brother, who claimed that he was mugged and tortured by the governors of Tex. (Many says it was well deserved, and

the logical execution of that aethyrs powers of Karma and Justice, as he used to beat his girlfriend a. o.) Most people that were under the spell of that Black brother failed utterly in trying to reach the aethyrs. And he himself, stopped after having done two. No explanations from him. What I mean to say is that the reports of Jones is not the example of failure of interaction, but that so far it tells more about him, than of the aethyrs. If he post more of his records, I will probably study them, as I then get a better chance to interprete his personal symbolics, and then a possibility to understand what he interacts with. 93 93 Runar

Hi Paul, 93 pj: John notes Jones' Christist background...an old aeonic current that he and even these other miscreants that control Thelemic discussion on the web, are swimming in. The net result of their behavior is that they suppress discussion on the web and threaten the dignity of everyone around them. This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with. John: Agreed. I left all groups with the exception of this one. I have been in various e-groups for the past few yeara and there is one thing I have found. The majority of these people have supposedly found their truths and their opinions and if anyone disagrees with them they are like a pack of jackyls. One thing in particular has interested me. Have you noticed that the A..A.. is normally the target? Or those of us that are a part of the A..A..? Because we, as individuals do not buy into their group ideals we are the enemy. PJ: Crowley had some difficulty getting to higher Aethyrs as he had to wait for certain Initiations and he was told so by the Entities. And it's these same people (Jones and crew) that create these fantasias for themselves. John: Agreed. I believe it was only the 30th and 29th Aethyrs that Crowley was able to scry until he reached a specific level of attainment. I believe it was only after reacher 8=3 that he was able to scry the remaining Aethyrs. Yet, even now with people like Jones and company they are supposedly able to do this. It is my opinion that they are not truly scrying them but in a way manifesting through their own selves what they think is the truth. That is why these Aethyrs are having such a christist message. If one scrys on the Aethys with preconceived expectations, I feel that the results will be tainted and the results are what the person truly wants to see. Jones is mixing 2 currents and basically feels that Thelema manifests the message of christianity. Hence the results of his scrying tie in with that of Revelations because deep down he feels that is the truth. He has preconceived expectations.

If I have a deep seated set of spiritual beliefs, regardless of what they are, at some point they will manifest in visions, dreams, or whatever despite their being false. And the entities I encounter will have no problem helping me along with my christist beliefs. Meanwhile I am the so-called brunt of their humor. 93/93 John

Hi Paul, 93 ***And I would combine this with his chaotic personality as further evidence of the affect of his work.*** And how. Damn and how. When I met David Jones he was very polite to me as I was in the attack mode with Scorpius and he despises Ron. So in a sense he was ganging up on Ron. He emailed me a few times and was very polite. I then asked him why he was always attacking you and making things up about you. For example he made the comment that you claimed to be 9=2 and I said he was incorrect and you were 2=9. After that he began to attack me in the community over minor things such as the spelling of magick and so on and so forth. Really petty things. I was never rude to him and actually quite cordial to him in all of my emails and posts. The only time he did not bash my posts was when I disagreed with Scorpius but as soon as my posts were anything pertaining to Thelema, etc he went on the attack mode. Jones has made up his mind about what is what and thinks he has uncovered all truths and if anyone does not agree with him totally he attacks them. Yet when someone attacks him back he complains that people only want to attack and that they are incapable of a propper debate. His ideas of the OTO are the only ones that are correct. His ideas on the A.'.A.'. are the only ones that are correct. His ideas on masonry are the only ones that are correct and so on and if anyone sees anything differently, the are idiots and full of shite to him. He has placed himself on a pedastal and throne of the all knowing and if anyone sees it differently he attacks them. 93/93 John

Hi JohnMoon, 93 I think there's more than disagreement happening here...so it seems that your assessment of the situation misses a few points. And for that matter, David Jones isn't casting out demons...he's making pacts with them. But even if you disagreed with that assessment, the behavior of the man betrays much. Note that he and a few others have basically suppressed all communication on the web in Thelemic circles. Hundreds and hundreds are on the lists...but only three or four dare even speak. And you saw first-hand over the summer how ardent these three or four idiots can be. Do you think I'm the only one they've

done this to? Even if that were true...others have learned to keep their mouths shut in order to avoid the discomfort that these people bring. Discussion on the net in Thelemic circles has gone nowhere because of these characters. And those quality people that might like to share the gems of their hard work have been effectively silenced. This shows you the spiritual egregore that these miscreants are riding. And they are relentless...it seems I have another trophy sitting at the FedEx office waiting for me. They're harrassment knows no limit. I take peoples words with a grain of salt...the feet don't lie...look at the actions of these miscreants. 93/93 pj

Hi Runar, 93 You make an interesting point here. Yes, the transcription tells more about David and may even be but the beginning of a deeper exploration of the Aethyr...and yes, the Aethyr or those beings of the Aethyr can take care of themselves. However, I see that someone that has developed such abilities as to be able to travel such an Aethyr as being of a certain accomplishment that David's character proves he has not. And so I see the fanciful imaginings of a creative (albeit twisted) mind...not a skrying experience at all. And considering with his several years on the net and even more years in Thelema...that this is the first he's published of any of this work...I suspect there's not too much more behind it...especially considering the fact that all his other publishing efforts have been nothing but regurgitations of stuff already published by others. 93/93 pj

Hi John, 93 I agree with you on both counts. Your assessment seems wholly accurate.

Note that the Caliphate stance on the A.'.A.'. for many years has been that it did not exist. And even today, the Caliphate instruction on the A.'.A.'. is that anyone who claims to be in the A.'.A.'. proves that they are not by making the claim. Of course, it doesn't seem that the Caliphate ever bothered to read the Oath forms...but that's another matter. So by making the claim to A.'.A.'. in front of any Caliphate member is to invite discord by the very seeds the Caliphate has sewn. So you could imagine my great surprise when I first heard they were putting out an Equinox Vol. IV and then inside that, claiming they were A.'.A.'.! 93/93 pj Hi John,

93 Of course, note that Jones is a man that on a stage in front of a live audience...is capable of dropping his pants and taking a shit. What kind of credibility can you give to someone with this behavior pattern? And why would anyone even want to associate with this type of character?...much less an order that he has stolen money from to support a drug habit...still puts him in a position of authority. Kinda makes you go: 93/93 pj hmmmm....

In a message dated 12/11/2002 6:27:24AM, [email protected] writes: << Note that he and a few others have basically suppressed all communication on the web in Thelemic circles. Hundreds and hundreds are on the lists...but only three or four dare even speak. And you saw first-hand over the summer how ardent these three or four idiots can be. Do you think I'm the only one they've done this to? Even if that were true...others have learned to keep their mouths shut in order to avoid the discomfort that these people bring. >> Oh I do not disagree with that its the terminology, It appears that the Old and New Testament Prophets did their thing with Demons. Now technically it is Shaitan thatis the ally of Demons So I would think that Satanic or Demonic would be a better term than Christist Now there is One Church that Teaches (I believe the LDS) That Satan and Christ were the same (Or syzgys of the same) But of course you cant rally depend on the Mormon church to make much sense of things (He that got info from Moriah) On the other hand maybe JOseph SMith had his own personla HGA( Never thought of that) Probably needs to be addressed at some point (Might be a connection) However I would say Satanic or Demonic would be a better term than ChrististPerhaps even Machiavellian Diabolic Etc. et regards [email protected]

From: Runar At 20:28 09.12.02 -0800, you wrote: >pj: John notes Jones' Christist background...an old aeonic current that he and even these other miscreants that control Thelemic discussion on the web, are swimming in. The net result of their behavior is that they suppress discussion on the web and threaten the dignity of everyone around them. This is further evidence of the nature of daemons they are playing with. I dont forget how the Thelema-93 list were turned into a mountain of

monkeys. How even the pretentious and serious eventually lifted their masks and just ceased to come with arguments against the sane and gave up everything for a cheap mock. >Runar: >Aethyr scrying as every other kind of scrying, there is some default >mode that turns out if not anything else is requested: The names used, >calls the energies connected with the name, and if there have been no >aquaintance with this before; the current will unveil itself by symbols. > >pj: It seems to me like this would be an intelligent first-step into an Aethyr...kinda learn the layout of the land. The fact that as a current, perhaps even electro-magnetic, it produces symbols in the mind...seems a way to program the different mannas for a fuller experience of the particular Aethyr being worked with. > >Yet I find an interesting conundrum in observing that a few talking on the Enochian lists seem to skry any Aethyr without concern for the level of Initiation the Aethyr requires and even to the point where they think they've traversed the Aethyr. Yes but this is due to the general diversion on the understanding on what are the aethyrs for. Ben Rowe started a campaigne on the enochian e-mail list to show that the path of Crowley was utterly wrong and the results came in because of preconceived expectations. His view were heard as he wrote a lot. (I learnt by this a far different lesson; If you want to be influental on the web; you have to repeat yourself : ) It has been my impression that few really tries to follow ACs path. Today i have given up trying argue for the Crowley method as the only one. If people truly wants to mess things up; I cant stop them, and I shouldnt waste my time trying to either. Also as my companion Dean Hildebrandt has gone up and down the aethyrs in his way, and come up with an explanation of whats their function, that is different, but plausible on some levels. This explanation was pointing at their function within the enochian system for the entities therein. (He succeeded in his attempts of not antromorphizing and ended with a view un-human. : ) In order to defend the tradition set forth by Crowley, which I regard as the some of the most valuable system ever, I think its wise to stick to groups of AA students - formally or nonformally. As herein its possible to take for granted the respect and interest for initiation along systems as Tree of life, and it will be possible to spend the time on whats valuable and not just defense. The point that makes the Crowley approach to the aethyrs to the most valuable of all is that the call of the aethyrs is a complete set of rituals to all levels along the tree of life. All mason orders of the world cannot claim to have such a thing. And what more; its not secret. A group that successfully gathers to practise and to collect information and experiences about the events will undoubtly become a beacon of the world, as the aethyrs contains rooms (metaphorically speaking) that contains options of specializing and talents (siddhis) that is easily passed by many as they couldnt possibly think that such

a thing was possible. A group that collects information will be able to pass on specialities and hardcore methods. I do believe that it is this point that have made the attacks against the AC approach so vehement. Because if such a thing is done, it will change the spiritual climate of the world. >Runar: >When an aethyr is understood and duly integrated, the aethyr appears empty, but its not. Its filled with the clear and unambigous energy that it was the first time. In order that one shall perceive the current clear and directly, the symbols works upon one, and folds out misunderstandings, presents ways and motives that can help one in raising oneself within that particular reality. The symbols are mediators between us and ideal frequencies. > >pj: Interesting, this ties in with the electro-magnetic idea that I >mentioned above. I think there's something profoundly related to this in the article I forwarded to this community the other day...cf. the message entitled: Porthole Method. It takes Mother's theory on the cells a step further and I think has some potential significance for the development of the Gnostic Mass. Yes I read the porthole post and found it interesting, but I know nothing yet of those mithocondrias. >at seems interesting...in other words, establish your own relationship >with the current in light of the nature of your Initiation. > >Runar: > >I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb, >but within enochian context in the whole aethyr, The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens, corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid, and that again corresponds to the personal spine. > >pj: This sounds fascinating...but what would you target as physical >evidence of a spine in the Pyramids? Nothing particular - its all symbolic, and in that it could be the symbol of the Oak as well. >Runar: > >Its within >the mental body, and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing. Those powers are amazing and too powerful, It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing. >

>pj: I think this is fascinating work...I'd love to see your diary entries on this. And I even think this is worth presenting on your site that others might benefit from this unique work. I think you would enjoy reading Satprem's 'Life of the Cells' in corollation with this. Its been the plan all the time, I just havent got to it yet. >Runar: >Thats what I consider to be its essence; spine power: The personal Pyramid. Who would guess so from Jones report? >But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic; If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it, you will have to remove the obstacles. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. The fire kept on aching for a year. Everyday. > >pj: The "backfire" in its seemingly unescapable nature, certainly shows more why the Aethyr work has to be done very carefully and should not be entered into without the proper Initiatory preparation. With this in mind, we have further evidence of Jones' problem. But your experience of this and the way you handled what you were experience also speaks to this cell experience and adds a larger dimension to your overall experience. I'd love to hear more about this in detail. Coming - one day - some year. 93 93 93 Runar.

Hi Runar, 93 you wrote: I did the Zen aethyr in 93/94 and I recall that I was told to forget everything that I read. (Crowleys vision and voice - i assumed) The experience was then also very different from his, while in other aethyrs I experienced similar things. I was confronted by the story of Nut and Geb, but within enochian context in the whole aethyr, The pyramid and its spine and its essence that was kept in a crystal ball within the pyramid. The phallos of Geb raised towards heavens, corresponds to the spine or axis of the pyramid, and that again corresponds to the personal spine. Its within the mental body, and its usually just too powerful to walk around with. Some ordinary people backed off as hit by some electric device when they came within my aura after this ritual. I did a little prayer this autumn two months ago on that theme and got some of that powers and I had the first autumn in years where I have not been freezing. Those powers are amazing and too powerful, It becomes very hard to turn off and get to sleep when there is a monster inside that just keeps on willing.

Thats what I consider to be its essence; spine power: The personal Pyramid. Who would guess so from Jones report? But I recognize his account for the fire of the damned. It wasnt presented to me in the vision of the aethyr as everything was just ideal therein. It came afterwards as the backfire! Its perfectly logic; If you get initiated in an ideal frequenzy and wants to integrate this and stick to it, you will have to remove the obstacles. I felt the fire was much directed to the body of light that contained the lower or maybe petty emotions. I at least became very detached to a serie of previous obsessions and much else. The fire kept on aching for a year. Everyday. would this energy (under many names and forms) have anything to do with obsessive-compulsive disorder? 93 Cammy

Hi All, 93 Jones' experiences with skrying having a Christian theme makes sense if he is indeed Christian...or with anyone else, if they had been Christian or around Christian upbringing in the past, though the egregore may have a broader theme. 93 Cammy

Hi JohnMoon, 93 For a different take on Shaitan, see this deity in the light of Pan and the fact that to the Jews, it was simply the other tribe's god. Then look into what Shaitan actually was and represented and you will have found yourself within a paradigm that is outside the Manichaen philosophy that ran through European thought. So you've a bit of apples and oranges with Shaitan and Satan. And though Satan is the modern word derived from Shaitan and is connected with a host of other names, such as Lucifer, who is but Prometheus in the 'other tribe'...and yet other names of uncertain origin (at least by me...lol), well, still, the egregore that has become 'Satanic' is a completely different current and incompatible with the 'Shaitanic' (to hopefully not coin a phrase there...lol). Regarding Joseph Smith...I have thought of his work as the result of his H.G.A. experience. But as Runar has suggested to me in the past, prophetic experiences often happen on the plane that connects Hod and Netzach. This is the plane of the Tower Atu (as I considered it a bit further). And note the 'Eye' in the Tower Atu, showing the force of revelation and overseeing it. >From a certain viewpoint, Smith's and Jones' experiences are not all that dissimilar. And both are unconnected with that 'Eye'. And that force is not strictly of the Thelemic current...though the Thelemic current is one important expression of it. There are other

expressions. So those not harmonious with this current, these 'Christist' egregores, which all come under one potently huge and very powerful, yet dying current. Thelema is but a babe...a weakling infant. It has not force of power, though it has a seed being planted. And it will become stronger as the old current gets weaker and until it ultimately dies out. But that is not for some time to come...my guestimate is by 2500ev. And to turn away from the current now, is important for some...and important for all that those few who do...do so. Yet I've learned through you and through my studies in this past year, that there are elements of the old aeon that remain important in this aeon as they pertain to the larger force of time...the Manifestation. There's a big difference between Yeshua bar Joseph and Jesus. There's a big difference between Apollon of Tyana and Jesus...there's no anthropomorphization of the Christ and Jesus was originally a Gnostic metaphor for the ideal initiate...in that sense, he was the Gnostic Avatar creating an egregore that was quickly perverted by the Roman church. Those demiurgic perversions, when present in any magickal experience...and when it's clear that they are the forces that are speaking to the Operator of a skrying session, we have not only evidence of perversion in the product of the work...but we see a dupe of the Black Lodge at work...becoming a tool for the Black Brotherhood. The fight is but a death throe on their part. More importantly, it is far easier to get this energy than it is to get to something more genuine. Remember, the old current is still the strong and dominant one. But it no longer has the throne. It is no longer connected to the 'Light'. 93/93 pj

Hi Runar, 93 You wrote: I dont forget how the Thelema-93 list were turned into a mountain of monkeys. How even the pretentious and serious eventually lifted their masks and just ceased to come with arguments against the sane and gave up everything for a cheap mock. pj: Doesn't this just sound like the kind of behavior Choronzon would produce? Speaking as a Zelator, I see part of my Ordeal of Choronzon coming by way of these guys this past year. Indeed Phosphoros runs from almost the beginning and I can tell you of incidents before he even came along...and when I was still with HOOR. And the insanity this all brought to me as I did the work of the Daggar...that certain clarity that accompanies this...it's been a rough ride, but an incredibly rewarding one.

Runar: Yes but this is due to the general diversion on the understanding on what are the aethyrs for. Ben Rowe started a campaigne on the enochian e-mail list to show that the path of Crowley was utterly wrong and the results came in because of preconceived expectations. His view were heard as he wrote a lot. (I learnt by this a far different lesson; If you want to be influental on the web; you have to repeat yourself : ) pj: At the very beginning of his work, he then rejects the truth outright. And he goes on a Choronzic campaign of obfuscation. There's no scientific mind at all when he rejects sound evidence so vehemently. This shows a dysfunctional Ruach right from the start...despite any talent he may have. Runar: It has been my impression that few really tries to follow ACs path. Today i have given up trying argue for the Crowley method as the only one. If people truly wants to mess things up; I cant stop them, and I shouldnt waste my time trying to either. pj: Crowley's method is the "only one" insofaras it is 'the' scientific method and not some romantic, creative venture. Crowley's method is Dee&Kelly's method...is the traditional method of other Philosophers of the Art. Runar: Also as my companion Dean Hildebrandt has gone up and down the aethyrs in his way, and come up with an explanation of whats their function, that is different, but plausible on some levels. This explanation was pointing at their function within the enochian system for the entities therein. (He succeeded in his attempts of not antromorphizing and ended with a view un-human. : ) pj: I like that Dean came up with his Aeonic theory in connection with the Tree-of-Life. It shows that he's coming up with new information And for that matter, there's a lot of investigation into cataloguing unresearched parts of the Enochian Universe. And while not necessarily prophetic, very valuable work. Runar: In order to defend the tradition set forth by Crowley, which I regard as the some of the most valuable system ever, I think its wise to stick to groups of AA students - formally or nonformally. As herein its possible to take for granted the respect and interest for initiation along systems as Tree of life, and it will be possible to spend the time on whats valuable and not just defense. pj: This important aspect was tossed away by the Caliphate in the 1984ev maneuverings that led to the trial. They knew that Motta had a legitimate claim to the Praemonstrance of the A.'.A.'. And if that was weighed into their founding, they would have to admit their illegitimacy as Motta never approved of their formulation. So in claiming to be 'the' O.T.O., they had to divorce themselves from the

A.'.A.'. Isn't it interesting that recently, they have been trying to claim themselves to be of Motta lineage? But no magickal order can function in a wholesome fashion without the Adepts and indeed the Secret Chiefs overseeing development. And with the Caliphate establishing such a strong egregore that betrays this, they've brought disarray to the 93 Current. Now, spurious orders pop up like popcorn in a corn popper...and everybody in them that can get laid or consume a drug has their own holy book to impress us with. And the current is on a general trend of losing its integrity...even before it's been able to well-establish it. Runar: The point that makes the Crowley approach to the aethyrs to the most valuable of all is that the call of the aethyrs is a complete set of rituals to all levels along the tree of life. All mason orders of the world cannot claim to have such a thing. And what more; its not secret. A group that successfully gathers to practise and to collect information and experiences about the events will undoubtly become a beacon of the world, as the aethyrs contains rooms (metaphorically speaking) that contains options of specializing and talents (siddhis) that is easily passed by many as they couldnt possibly think that such a thing was possible. A group that collects information will be able to pass on specialities and hardcore methods. I do believe that it is this point that have made the attacks against the AC approach so vehement. Because if such a thing is done, it will change the spiritual climate of the world. pj: With the old aeon in its death throes, it will do all it can to attack the Throne of Ra in an ill-fated attempt to regain its seat. Crowley is the Mage in Ra's court...an Avatar and Prophet...the target for the demiurge, for the Christist egregore. This is the real battle in the spiritual, that corresponds with the war here on earth...both representing the turmoil of Babalon in her labor pains...Mother of Abomination...of our evolution into a new species...of the earth's evolution into a new nature...non-human (or more fully evolved human) a 'freak show' or abomination to that force that wants to see us as we were...and to intefere with the willed destiny of our race and inherent in the very fabric of our being. Runar: Yes I read the porthole post and found it interesting, but I know nothing yet of those mithocondrias. pj: The mitochondria is outside the nucleus in both ova and sperm cells. However, only the mitochondria of the mother is transmitted to the child. This is why the Pharoah mated with his sister in order to continue the bloodline of the Throne of Horus...and why the throne itself...the actual seat was considered the Womb of Isis. Indeed, the only time that the Pharoah was considered Pharoah was when physically sitting on the throne. 93/93 pj

In a message dated 12/11/2002 19:54:54PM, [email protected] writes: << Jesus...there's no anthropomorphization of the Christ and Jesus was originally a Gnostic metaphor for the ideal initiate...in that sense, he was the Gnostic Avatar creating an egregore that was quickly perverted by the Roman church.>> Well, lets see what would you call the perfect Initiate in the Judaic system? Or who would you name a child that you wanted to be the perfect initiate.( Or a group of Children) Consider You couldn't call him Moses. But then who was Moses Protege'? Eh? Joshua , Now presume for a Moment That You were naming a Child And dedicating him to the Lord( God) Yahweh And you wanted that Child to Be dedicates(Say a NAzerite) Samson is unlucky He failed and was blinded So What would you call him? Now again you cannot name him Moses But maybe you could name him Joshua (Yshua) which Is Aramaic transliterate into English down the Line Jesus (Iesu) with the addition of the Anglo Saxon J.( JA vol) So Joshua( YSHW) Is transliterated to Jesus.( Shrug) So Also you might name a Brother Yaakov( In hopes that the older brother might be the Patriarch of his family You wouldn't name him Yosef because you In Aramaic didn't name children the same name as their father (In the Judaic System) But you might name them for The Patriarch (Jacob) who was carried out of Egypt, and Joshua who led them out of Egypt.( Especially if you happened to be Sicarri yourself( As MAriam/ Yosef might have been) he same Crazed bunch that committed Suicide At Masada.(Some what 30 years Later) some movement to last that long eh (Must have been Grass roots and very Popular in spite of the roman attempt to squelch it) Such a dedicated bunch would name children after Heroes of the Old Testament. YSHW Is entirely logical, historical and Definitely Jewish (Joshua) In fact you might consider that because Joshua the (Original) was his namesake< Maybe The Early YSHW(Joshua) Inspired him(Historical Jesus) to follow in the Historical footsteps. Thinking that there was a possibility of success (for Israel) when there was not.( Under Rome) So I dont buy a mythical Yeshua Bar Yosef, there's much history there are some substantial misunderstandings of what occurred. But That's to be expected by persons writing after the fact (who were not eye witnesses) Rather by word or mouth. If Thelma was passed by word of Mouth for say 15 years before anyone wrote the facts down. There would be substantial differences in what Crowley said. Now what the Catholic Church did (second Century and Then Third is a Shame) especially the Perpetual virginity stuff and MArianism) On the other hand they also preserved the ancient texts (And Jerome and Others) not in the PApal loop translated. And was he was not exactly a Popular guy (Merely feared because of his Knowledge) And there are several Members of that (linage you might say) That attempted to Preserve the accurate textual information. If they were really diabolical they would have had ONE Gospel story (No decension)\Instead they Have 4( Plenty of Discussion there) So in a Way Your right But youcant throw out the Baby with the Bath water. Youhave to sift through the trash to getto the Historical reality.. And shed light on what occurred for instance a lot of Christians think the Spirit descended in the form of a Dove on Yeshua (It never says

this) It says like a dove/( Quite a difference) In other words most of the mistakes are merely misreading of the text Much like you would expect if someone misread the Lieber AL or other texts If they said Something you knew to be in error? You'd point it out but not abandon the text itself (Accurately read and interpreted) But another good point is that this is more difficult after 2000 years This is why we study early texts and Compare in the original Language to detect errors and Mistranslation (done through no evil intent) Just done in error. That is the basic problem.( comparing Say the Dead sea Scrolls) to the Old Testament and the Greek and Other Aramaic to the Translations to determine how many errors occurred over two thousand years In a sense You lucky you dont have to that in order to determine the truth. As you pointed out its young/ On the other hand Doing so is interesting/ Regards [email protected]

Hi JohnMoon, 93 What stands out for me in what you say is the misreading of text and the development of doctrine based on that misreading. Your "dove descending" and "as a dove" metaphor is all too common an error that occurs by various sages in all traditions that rely on scripture. Here is where old Harry made a salient point, those that rely on these scriptures are of the 'psychic' and not the 'nous'. An easier way to say this, is that these 'psychic' individuals are seeing what they want to see and making scripture fit their vision. Crowley tried to prevent this in his own way by making any appeal to interpretation be an appeal to his writings. But the attempt was more a vanity on his part. Note that even those (Caliphate people) who espouse this specifically, make the very error that they criticize. The perfect example is clearly seen in the actions taken by those that have disagreed with my interpretation of AL. Essentially, they have put Liber Librae (originally a Golden Dawn document) before AL and I'll quote from Librae: "In true religion there is no sect, therefore take heed that thou blaspheme not the name by which another knoweth his God; for if thou do this thing in Jupiter thou wilt blaspheme YHVH and in Osiris YChShVCh. Ask and ye shall have! Seek, and ye shall find! Knock, and it shall be opened unto you!"<o:p></o:p> They have used this to validate the Christist current as being compatible with AL and my denunciation of the desert religions as a denunciation of the "true god"...ultimately concluding that I am an evil that needs to be eradicated. They fall into the age-old trap: "If my religion is the true religion, which is good, and if you disagree with me, then you must be wrong and evil." But let's appeal to AL directly:

AL III.49: "I am in a secret fourfold word, the blasphemy against all gods of men." AL III.50: "Curse them! Curse them! Curse them!" AL III.51: "With my Hawk's head I peck at the eyes of Jesus as he hangs upon the cross." AL III.52: "I flap my wings in the face of Mohammed & blind him." AL III.53: "With my claws I tear out the flesh of the Indian and the Buddhist, Mongol and Din." AL III.54: "Bahlasti! Ompehda! I spit on your crapulous creeds." And let's appeal to Crowley's writings directly: "Now, o my Son, having understood the Heaven that is within thee, according to thy Will, learn this concerning the Hell of the Slaves of the Slavegods, that it is true Place of torment. For they, restricting themselves, and being divided in Will, are indeed the Servants of Sin, and they suffer, because, not being united in Love with the whole Universe, they perceive not Beauty, but Ugliness and Deformity; and, not being united in Understanding thereof, conceive only of Darkness and Confusion, beholding Evil therein. Thus at last they come, as did the Manichaeans, to find, to their Terror, a Division even in the One, not that Division which we know for the Craft of Love, but a Division of Hate, And this, multiplying itself, Conflict upon Conflict, endeth in Hotchpot, and in the Impotence and Envy of Choronzon, and in the Abominations of the Abyss. And of such the Lords are the Black Brothers, who seek by their Sorceries to confirm themselves in Division. Yet in this even is no true Evil, for Love conquereth All, and their Corruption and Disintegration is also the Victory of BABALON". With these, it should be that more obvious as to the nature of the work of the Black Lodge and the subtlety that it employs in hiring its dupes. 93/93 pj

From: Runar Message 23 in Discussion At 19:43 11.12.02 -0800, you wrote: >Runar: >Yes but this is due to the general diversion on the understanding on what are the aethyrs for. >Ben Rowe started a campaigne on the enochian e-mail list to show that the path of Crowley was utterly wrong and the results came in because of preconceived expectations. His view were heard as he wrote a lot. (I learnt by this a far different lesson; If you want to be influental on the web; you have to repeat yourself : ) > >pj: At the very beginning of his work, he then rejects the truth >outright. And he goes on a Choronzic campaign of obfuscation. There's no scientific mind at all when he rejects sound evidence so vehemently. This shows a dysfunctional Ruach right from the start...despite any talent he may have.

We must not forget that the old thruths of religion have in different ways been manifested in philosophy. What we can know of A, is A - a.o. For an Ipsissimus that has successfully passed the region of the zodiac, it is rightful to claim that there is no zodiac, but an illusion without no substance. Today it becomes so obvious that we must choose deliberately to uphold tradition, even if the tradition itself is there to show it is anchored in a mystery, which seen by the mundane will result in descriptions like: " without substance" - "nothing particular" and many things worse. When reading B. Rowe its rather easy to see his hatred of Crowley shining through. But cloaked in the intellectual scholars virtousity, its just a work to produce argumentation to support the emotional engagement. >Runar: >In order to defend the tradition set forth by Crowley, which I regard as the some of the most valuable system ever, I think its wise to stick to groups of AA students - formally or nonformally. As herein its possible to take for granted the respect and interest for initiation along systems as Tree of life, and it will be possible to spend the time on whats valuable and not just defense. > >pj: This important aspect was tossed away by the Caliphate in the 1984ev maneuverings that led to the trial. They knew that Motta had a legitimate claim to the Praemonstrance of the A.'.A.'. And if that was weighed into their founding, they would have to admit their illegitimacy as Motta never approved of their formulation. So in claiming to be 'the' O.T.O., they had to divorce themselves from the A.'.A.'. Isn't it interesting that recently, they have been trying to claim themselves to be of Motta lineage? They? Is it those behind the chicago address ? M.P. Starr or what? 93 93 Runar

Message 24 in Discussion At 16:28 11.12.02 -0800, you wrote: >would this energy (under many names and forms) have anything to do with obsessive-compulsive disorder? 93 Cammy Hi Cammy. Not directly, but as I found that current the main power source of the section of aethyrs that was rather connected ( I regarded them to be or corresponding to the sephira Geburah), I saw other places where such things seemed to be likely. The work of the body spirit went over several of these aethyrs and I experienced something which could be labeled that (OCD). To me, it manifested as the compulsive thinking of two specific words.

So it was no severe case, but it made the difference in that I saw the gap between us. It culminated in Lea that is the 15th aethyr (Zen 13th). It involved a personal zombie form that I had to convince that the formula of life and expansion was not for him, but that he would get it so much better if followed the ascetic path of selfrestriction, and thus ceased thinking and saying anything at all. (I had to go within him and stop all attempts on even the slightest action - my previous meditation exps was of help.) He rests in peace now. 93 93 Runar.

Hi Runar, 93 Runar Karlsen <[email protected]> wrote: When reading B. Rowe its rather easy to see his hatred of Crowley shining through. But cloaked in the intellectual scholars virtousity, its just a work to produce argumentation to support the emotional engagement. pj: I've spoken often of this logical fallacy and Ouspensky addresses it eruditely. What really interests me is how so many claiming high A.'.A.'. grades don't see this, though they should have done the work of the Daggar and the work of the Cup. Runar: They? Is it those behind the chicago address ? M.P. Starr or what? pj: Yes, Martin Starr...who has claimed that I am not A.'.A.'. because I studied under Eales who is not A.'.A.'. ... that same one who was 'expelled' from the A.'.A.'. by Motta (who cut contact with but didn't expel Eales). And so the sophistry of the Caliphate gets more and more incredulous with each glance one takes. I went out to Chicago last year and did attempt to make some contact with Starr, but basically, he blew me off...not too interested in meeting A.'.A.'. people...except maybe for the one's that properly kiss his ass. The biggest problem with Thelema is that Thelemites can't show each other respect, rather have this ubsurd need to attack each other and make jerks out of us all. I chose some time ago to lurk and withdraw...if the idiots would stop chasing me and just let me do that...oi veh! 93/93 pj

Hi Runar, 93 Thanks :) I had a dream some days ago in which a guy in red was following me in one scene and he was walking funny and stiffly. while writing down the dream afterwards i interpreted it as OCD, or rather the obsession part. I am better now and finally can sleep well

though I still have a tendency to check/count/read things, such as the clock. 93 Cammy

Hi Runar, 93 I also like the part of it seeming to be 'likely' in certain situations...as I only really started having it during the summer and at the time I was going out with a guy who had it (he claimed homophobia), and twitched and talked in his sleep. But it's not something one is born with, it doesn't have to be long-term though some people may not be able to totally eliminate it yet can tone it down to a barely noticeable minimum. 93 Cammy