Declassified Documents Concerning Tony Blair
Declassified Documents Concerning Tony Blair
3087
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
1.0 I
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Mr. Blair
Notetakers: Natalie Johnson, Marc Koehler
and Marian~a Papadimitriou
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Mr. Blair:
Hello.
The President:
Mr. Blair:
. Hello?
Tony?
Congratulations.
The President:
The President:
Mr. Blair:
The President:
'~'
,_At'" ~_f'''~';;' DECLASSI~ICATION ~ATE: October 14,2015
,-..
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The President: Well, the people voted for you. That's the main
thing.
I wish you well and look forward to working with you.
I
guess I'll see you soon, at that NATO meeting, if not. sooner.
Mr. Blair: Yes, that's right.
I would love to do that. We have
a chance to do something now.
I look forward to meeting with
you. We have a good and strong relationship.
The President: See you soon. Go on back to your people now.
just wanted to wish you congratulations.
Mr. Blair:
The P.resident:
Mr. Blair:
Good-bye.
Good-bye.
End of Conversation
CONFlOENriAL
GOHFIDji;NTIAI..
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
William Daley, Secretary of Commerce
William Crowe, Ambassador to the UK
Samuel Berger, Assistant to the President for
National Security Affairs
James Steinberg, Deputy Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs
Mary Ann Peters, Director for European
Affairs, NSC (Noteta~ec)
Prime Minister Blair
John Holmes, Private Secretary to the
Prime Minister for Overseas Affairs
Members of the British Cabinet
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
Reason:
1.5 (b) ,
Declassify On, , 6/
CONFIDtNTlAL
CONFIDEN'I'IAL
The President:
Kok was talking about France; they are not ready
yet to do what is needed.
~he UK, the Netherlands and the Uniterl
states have good social compacts that make the country work; in
the United States we need to maintain competitiveness while
looking out for people. Millions can't cope with work and
family; and these are the people who face education and safe
streets and health care challenges.
If you succeed, and I think.
you will, constructive change will have to take place.
France
and Germany need to balance social programs and global realities;
a different version of that problem faces us all. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
That is why it is so important to exchange
ideas; we have learned from the best and worst of experiences;
there. must .be structural change.
It could well be premature to
. introduce the euro without it. ;e1
The President:
It is interesting how a currency acquires a life
of its own -- it has become the litmus test for France and
Germany, though the underlying changes have not taken place.
yz(
k81
Mr. Brown:
In Great Britain, the long-term unemployed make up 40
percent of our unemployed, compared with 10 percent in the United
States. We have no way to get them back to work. There will
have to be huge changes; France is the best example because their
public sectqr is huge. We need to demonstrate that growth and
social programs can work together -- you do not have to sacrifice.
one for the other.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
I told Jospin that he was attacking the
right for the wrong reasons -- he should be doing it because they
are not going far enough. Je7
CONFIDENTIAL
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The President:
We cut government employment by 300,000.
It is
now the smallest since the Kennedy Administration and, on a per
capita basis, the smallest it has been since 1933. We have
direct transfers to social security and to state and local
governments. You could be helpful with the difficulties within
France and Germany with regard to social spending. At least in
Germany they spend the money better, on long-terr:. training i in
France people are paid to stay unemployed for very long periods.
],Kf
Mr. Brown:
The system can only work if there is mobility,
flexibility and la~ge transfers. Right now, none of these three
exists. 0
.The President:
There is one thing to look at.
I know the United
states are different than EU member nations, but you would be
interested in how far big states can go in having different
financial policies. New Jersey is an example - - i t proved you
can raise the minimum wage and create more low-wage jobs.
I used
this experience to justify our rc:ising the minimum wage. But
unemployment will go up if the rise is too big. Your
unemployment rate is lower than other Europeans' because of your
f1exible system. -+-er
.
Mr. Brown:
Since they are not required to work, no long-term
unemployed single parents are included in our statistics.
That means unemployment is really closer to 20 percent in some
cases. We have the biggest single-parent population in Europe.
-+-er
The President:
If the culture says it is no longer necessary to
have a marriage to have children, then that means single parents
should have to work. ~
-- End of Conversation --
CONFIDENTIAL
6EGRE"T
SECRET
I.
~~
WASHINGTON
o~
('>0
SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
William Crowe, Ambassador to the UK
Samuel R. Berger, Assistant to the President
for National Security Affairs
Mary Ann Peters, Director for European
Affairs, National Security Council
(Notetaker)
Anthony Blair, Prime Minister
Sir John Kerr, Ambassador to the U.S.
John Holmes, Private Secretary to the
Prime Minister
Jonathan Powell, Chief of Staff to the
Prime Minister
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
(U)
The President: If you see me with all the cards they give me,
you know it is going to be ~ long meeting because I have not done
my homework. If I .do it, I reduce it to this one card.
(U)
With regard to Northern Ireland, ,I would like to tell you that
when it comes time that you think it would be helpful for us to
say something about a cease-fire or decommissioning, let me know.
We may have to wait for the Irish election. I have some pull and
can call in chits; just let me know. --i-E"t"'
Prime Minister Blair:
3ECRE'f
SECRE'l'
SECRET
The President:
I will think about the parade problem.
The
conflict reminds me of the Middle East. Do yuu have a resolution
in mind? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
One problem is that the people are farther along
than the leaders.
For people like Sinn Fein and Ian Paisley, the
conflict is their whole life. ~
Ambassador Crowe: At Drumcree, however, all those peace-loving
people went indoors and shut their blinds.
(U)
The President:
Those were the same people in the streets
cheering us -- they need leadership. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Some of my rich yuppie friends cancelled trips to
Belfast to play golf. J21
Ambassador Crowe:
The President has been strongly supportive of
investment in Northern Ireland.
K)
SE(gET
6EGf<E~r
SECRET
The President:
You need a place for the politicians to go to be
relevant.
They have to have a life
"
other than
their ability to stop the process.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Mr. Holmes: /
The President:
Sinn Fein needs to be on board with the substance
of the resolution, whatever the details of the relationship to
Ireland. What is the role for the DUP and Paisley? If we leave
the extremes out, they can undermine the solution.
I was struck
by that when I met Paisley.
I didn't get a word in edgewise for
20 minutes, but I didn't care. ~
Mr. Holmes:
/r~I=E=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,s=e=ct=io=n=1.=4(=b=)(=~~1------------------11
I
The President:
You mean if you give them a meaningful devolved
government? .JB1
Mr. Berger:
We are maintaining contact with the unionists -- I
called Trimble recently. ~
The President:
He is impressive.
Ambassador Crowe: But not at Drumcree. And the SDLP needs Sinn
Fein.in the talks so they cannot criticize the compromises Hume
makes.
(S)
The President:
You know where we are.
can do, let me know at the right time.
If there is anything I
(.e)
Mr. Berger: Mo Mowlam was over last week and we had a great
meeting. .Jce)
The President:
She is good, great on TV. Her happy face
inspires confidence. She seems soiid and not full of herself;
you don't need another person over there posturing like a
peacock.
-\-e1
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRE'!'
CmJFI DEN''fIAL
CONfiDENTIAL
'/
SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
We should talk about NATO.
I have the impression
that most leaders in Paris are in favor of a group of five,
adding Romania and Slovenia to the other three. We have
reservations about that.
COHFIDEN'fIAL
Reason:
1.S(b)i
Declass:lfy On: ,:
CONFIDENTIAL
2
. COHFI DEN'fIJltL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
L -______
Ambassador Kerr:
Mr. Berger:
They're shifting because of Slovenia and because
they are grateful for Romania's deal with Hungary. ~
The President:
I see Kohl next week; he should know where you
are on this.
JkM
Prime Minister Blair:
Mr. Berger:
We need to be reassuring and embracing in our
language; perhaps not using the example of waiting room. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Mr. Berger:
The President:
We are working on it and thinking of the package
we can put forward.
Bill just whispered, "Are Romania and
Slovenia ready? This is a military alliance." ~
Ambassador Crowe:
context. J.e1
The President:
We have a disagreement with our partners on the
continent but I am sure a larger group would turn up the heat on
the Baltic issue and we are not prepared to handle that yet.
This is a problem that needs time to sort itself out; we need to
give it a few years.
If you give it away now, you have nothing
to fill the time. ~
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFiDENTIAL
,CONFIDENTIAL
Mr, Holmes:
The President:
Mr. Holmes:
j)21
Ambassador. Kerr:
E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)
The President:
I would have thought that, but the republican
caucus actually favors letting in more countries.
I don't want
to misrepresent the Hill; I think the republicans will follow
their leadership on this. Some are against enlargement because
of the fear of provoking a nationalist response in Russia -- that
is a silly argument. )ef
Prime Minister Blair: Yes.
Je1
Mr. Berger:
New polling data shows that NATO is just not a
grass-roots issue in Russia.
ket
they are just being
Prime Minister Blair: What a surprise
normal and caring more about the economy. --+er
The President:
.(..e')
Ambassador Kerr:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Mr. Budd:
The President:
That is where we are. We hope things will get
better.
It concerns me that we are getting to the point that
there are no Western-educated politicians in the government.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIDEH'I'IAL
CONFI WENTIAL
_ CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
We have made an attempt to address this within
NATO -- the European Security and Defense Identity. Except for
AFSOUTH we are happy with that. And we are trying to work out
AFSOUTH. -ter
On the Middle East, Saddam has literally violated the no-fly
zone. We would be stupid to take action against those flights
that 99 percent of the world think are okay. But the UN
resolutions- are at stake; we have to do something about his
challenge of the no-fly zone. Our idea is that he can have as
many humanitarian flights as he wants but we need to-have advance
notice.
The only problem is that if you tell him that and he
does not comply, you have to respond.
That puts a burden on us.
But if we believe in the UN resolutions, it is the best we can
do. ....(..G1Ambassador Crowe:
P?i
Mr. Berger:
There has been a refinement in our thinking. A
conversation between our two militaries produced a range of
options. -tet
The PresideDt:
This is not a question cf how to win, but how to
avoid a loss.
There is no way to win with world public opinion
but we are not prepared to let Saddam walk away from the
resolutions. We are not looking for a victory; this is not like
our response to the attempt on President Bush's life. There is a
sanctions committee in the UN but we don't trust them.
We don't
want him to think he can sucker punch us into shooting down
innocent civilians. ~
:'
CONFIDENTIAL
. CONFIDENTIAL
Mr. Holmes.:
Prime Minister
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Mr. Budd:
Prime Minister Blair:
Mr. Berger:
If he knocks and a door opens, he will knock again
next time . .~
The President:
together. ::fC)
Ambassador Crowe:
fof'
The President:
I concur with your analysis on Iran.
It is
imperative we stay together.
I want to discuss it on its merits,
not in terms of money. Others are saying that all is well as
long as they don't blow up our people, and we can all make money.
But we have a larger responsibility. You know about terrorism
because of the IRA. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I agree.
The President:
In terms of yesterday's NATO conference, there is
less than meets the eye.
I think what we are really doing is
reorganizing ourselves to face the new challenges, getting rid of
the intellectual clutter to free ourselves for the future.
If
you believe we need to combat proliferation, ethnic hatred and
terrorism and that we need a common policy on the environment,
then we have to be organized to deal with these transnational
problems. The world looks to us to be honest about these
problemsi we may not always be right but we have to be honest.
The pressure to go for the commercial benefits is enormous. )1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
COWFIPEWTIAL
CONFI DEH'fIAL
The President:
Under the terms of the 1984 agreement, the UK and
China made a deal that you asked us to endorse.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I
)e(
The President:
Mr. Berger:
It would be useful to come up with agreed benchmarks
such as early elections under fair conditions, civil liberties.
If we are all sending the same message, it will be more
effective. We are not there yet. ~
Prime Minister Bla'
Mr. Steinberg:
Mr. Holmes:
COHFIDEN'l'IAL
)I)
.CONFIDE~TTIAL
The President: We will be doing our best to stick with you -you have a big dog in this hunt.
jZ(
Ambassador Crowe:
The President:
once.
(U)
(U)
I went beagling
The President:
Red Army. ....ke1'"
Mr. Holmes:
The President:
We don't want to put them in a box publicly, but
privately we can try to persuade them. ~
Mr. Berger:
There will be 25,000 reporters there.
The danger is
that you set the bar too high with a press that wants a
confrontation, as do some people in Hong Kong.
If our benchmarks
are not clear, we could be drawn into a confrontation. +eJ
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The press tried to get me to comment yesterday.
I ducked the question because it is not our business.
I know
Kohl and Chirac are for it.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I
I
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
COHFI DEN'!' IM
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
But it
e good to un erstan w at t e consequences and
alternatives are.
It is usually discussed at the theological
level rath~~than in practical terms.
That is what I would want
to know.
~)
Mr. Tarullo:
It is difficult for us to say anything because they
think we are concerned about the euro displacing the dollar as a
reserve currency. ~
The President:
If it leads to lower growth, it will not be good
for us or the rest of the world. At Denver we are going to talk
about an Africa initiative; but if we, you and Japan don't have
economic growth, we cannot help Latin America or Africa.
Your position is principled; the Tories' is ideological. Yours
is the best way to go forward since the theological arguments are
hard to understand. ).R1
Mr. Alan: What is lacking is a strategy for job creation and
structural adjustment. ~
The President:
Our labor ministers held a conference in Detroit,
but it didn't accomplish much because of economic conditions.
Delors put out a white paper at the time but nothing happened.
I
think we should acknowledge we tried it a few years ago; it is a
grea t idea.
(,e')
I'd like you to come to Washington soon on an official visit.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
York.
(U)
(U)
Mr. Tarullo:
She is teaching English, but I think she is going
to be a psychologist.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
c;mIFIDEN1'I}'rL
Ambassador Kerr:
It is amazing the extent to which his daughter
has a private life.
(U)
The President:
The press has been wonderful in honoring the
request Hillary and I made to them, with one or two exceptions.
Children deserve a chance to grew up in private.
I think the
press respected this because we did not put Chelsea in the
poli tical spotlight.
(U)
We will see each other in Denver. We are staying at an old
cowboy hotel.
Do you know where you are staying?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
I am not sure.
(U)
The President:
We are arranging a dinner at a place called The
Fort that specializes in buffalo meat, which is low fat.
When I
had lunch with Boris, he served roast pig and told me real men
hack off the ears and eat them. And once he served 24 courses,
including moose lips.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
conference.
(U)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
John Smith, Tony Campanile,
Lyle Harrison, Marc Koehler, Marianna
Papadimitriou and Mary Ann Peters
DATEr TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
Hello.
The President:
(U)
Tony?
Bill?
The President:
(U)
Fine.
(U)
for comin
The President:
Reason:
1. 5 (b)/
Declassify on: ;
(U)
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
GOHFIDE~J'I'IAL
The President:
I'll be happy to do that.
immediately.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
That's great
The President:
This is crazy.
I don't know why they're doing
this now, when you're trying to put all this together. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes, I agree with that. We'll get in touch with
them today and convey this in the strongest possible terms.
If
they are thinking about proceeding like this while you are
working in good faith, it makes no sense, it's crazy. +&r
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I've got it and I'll get on it.
doing otherwise? ~
>:'0. 13526,
~,ti'n
1.4(b)(d)
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The President:
I thought the Econoflist this week had some
interesting suggestions on how to proceed with the currency but
change some of the Maastricht requirements.
They argue that
France cannot make it anyway with 12 percent unemployment; but
they acknowledge that the Bundesbank would not agree to such
changes.
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
It's just pretty hard to ask a Socialist
government -- it was hard to ask Chirac's government -- to do
nothing except cut spending when you have 13 percent
unemployment.
~
Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely right, and if you're doing it
while kee
the franc hi h
ou're reall
the
econom .
The President:
Well, I don't believe they can solve their
economic and unemployment problems through the budget anyway.
They need structural reform. Maybe Socialist governments can
actually do this better than Conservative governments. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
COHFIDEN'PIAL
CONFJ DENTIAL
CONF IDEN'PIAL
The President:
He must be?
(U)
(U)
The President: Well the way their constitution works, Chirac has
foreign policy and he has economic policy, so they normally bot~
come.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Well, I suppose he will, won't he?
should be interesting. Have you met him?
It
Absolutelyri ht.
CONFI DEN1'IPrL
CONFiDENTIAL
CONFIDEN''fH\:L
)Q1
The President:
I think they are afraid that global corporations
and global money movers will take away the capacity of the
nation-state to preserve the social contract, but I don't think
that's true.
There was a fascinating piece in the Economist on
how the Czech experiment failed.
The market outran the capacity
of the regulators and they have negative growth now. You ought
to have somebody pull that for you, just because it makes the
case for reform without the Thatcher/Reagan idea of getting rid
of government. A little article on how the Czech economy, the
jewel of the post-communist period, could be in all this trouble
ironically because there was not enough regulation.
l-e1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The Economist?
(U)
(U)
LUf'U /BENT/At
CONPIDEN'fIAL
The President:
The problem here is that because union membership
is declining, even if you have more jobs, people worry that
their families are vulnerable, especially because there is no
universal h.ealth care. But without growth and lower unemployment
it's hard to get these things done.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, that's right. You could have a more"
universal system of health care in your country without wrecking
the system.
(U)
The President:
Of course we could. We'd save money. But we're
going to take another pop at it this time, at least for the
children. Anyway, I can't wait to see you in Denver and I'll
call the appropriate people and send the message publicly and
privately.
kef
Prime Minister Blair: That would be very kind, Bill; it would
really help.
It will be great to see you in Denver.
(U)
The President:
Yes.
kef
Y21
-1
The President:
Yes.
I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
We have to have a
unified position or it doesn't mean a thing. So I'll stick with
you as far as I can and see you in Denver. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)"
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, we are; it was great to see you and
Hillary. One of my few moments of real enjoyment.
(U)
The President: Well, you get to be a real person.
Denver. Bye-bye.
(U)
COHFIDEN'I'IM
See you in
Luhl
CONFIDEWPIAL
uJLJ'ijj iHL
7
CONFIDENTIAL
Bye-bye.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFI DEN'fIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
-
The President
Prime Minister, Tony Blair
Notetakers: Doug Mueller, Wylma Robinson,
Pat O'Shaughnessy, Bonnie Glick
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
You are?
(U)
The President:
Yes.
I am looking at people skateboarding at
the beautiful beaches of Santa Monica.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
then?
(U)
CONFIl3EH'FIAL
Reason: 1.5(b)
Declassify On:
CONFIDENTIAL
CONPIDEN'PIl's:L
The President:
Is there anything we can do to help you with
Trimble? Probably not. kef
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
one more time.
).e"r
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I could try to come on over to see you or
something. -+e1
cmlFI DEN'E' L"rL
CONFIDEN'PIAL
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3
And I am
really glad you are going to become EU president in January
because my sense is that we can get some grudging progress for
CONFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
4
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
(JZ)
The_President:
point.
That's right.
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
One of the things that would help is to raise
the economic fortune of the Palestinians.
Hello?
The President:
I know that you can't come to us on September 9
because of the Scottish devolution and 13-15 doesn't work for
CGHFIDEN'fIl's:L
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
,
CONFIDENTIAL
6
.'
me, but we need to set up some time.
we find the time.
(V)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Just those two days for me.
out another time.
(V)
(V)
Is it going down
)1
The President:
You may have some to spare now, but you can
never tell what you'll need in five years.
JK)
Prime Minister Blair: However, it has not always been like this
in Scotland.
In the 50's it was mostly Tory. What I am trying
to do is build ,new bases of support, one of the most difficult
things to do.
There are two referendums, one in Scotland and
one in Wales.
yM
The President:
So you stay there and handle it. Your
preference is to get the visit done in the month of September.
(V)
I think so.
(V)
The President:
That is my strong preference.
people and we'll get it done.
(V)
I will talk to my
CONFI DEH'fIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
cown DEl?ITIAL
The President:
Tell Steven Spielberg I hate coming all the way
out here and not get to see him because he is hanging out in
Chequers.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
I will certainly.
(U)
The President:
I always suspected that beneath that ruffled,
intelle-ctual demeanor was a real Tory aristocrat working.
(UrPrime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
I know.
I told you before that he really wants
to help rebuild the movie industry in Great Britain because he
is so grateful for its influence. He got a lot of- input from
early Br{tish film makers.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Lots of possibilities here, but also
important to them that the U.S. and the British work closely,
especially because some of the other countries and some of the
stuff from the EU is not very sensible. The French and the
Italians have weird rules and prescriptions on film making.
It
would help if we can get some decent British movies.
(U)
The President:
Bye.
We'll be in touch.
(U)
Bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
(U)
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
(U)
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
The President:
It's awful, it's really awful. We're up here on
Martha's Vineyard vacationing, and we're with a lot of people
who knew her.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: We saw her again just weeks ago when we
hosted her for lunch with Prince William, he's a great kid. ~
The President:
le1
CONFIPENTfAL
CONFI DEN'FIAL
with her, she said that were it not for the boys, she'd be off
the board.
The country is stunned.
(.et'
The President:
yx
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, someone we knew and liked. She had
a remarkable gift. She was beginning to get her life together.
j..e}
The President:
Yes, Hillary had a nice visit with her a few
weeks ago when she was here. We liked her a lot.
I just think
that anything you can do for those boys, I don't know how
CONFIDEN'fIl'rL
........ ~,i". -.
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~~~TON
LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ;'i;
..
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CONFIDENTIAL
3
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
~I
______________
The President:
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
E.O.13526, section 1.4(d)
Hillary and I just wanted to tell you all we were thinking of
you. .-keI
Prime Minister Blair: Your words yesterday were greatly
appreciated.
Thank you. So you are on holiday now?
(U)
The President:
I'm having a good holiday.
It's the longest
vacation we have had in ten years. We're getting ready to send
Chelsea: off to university.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President: She is, but that's all part of it, it's what you
raise them for.
(U)
cmlFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFI DEN'fIAL
The president: No, we have one more week here, then we go back
to Washington for a week to ten days, then we will go to
California to take her out there.
(U)
You're doing well in Northern Ireland, no?
The President:
tha t . -+-c+-
The President:
circumstances.
The President:
Do you think there is anything we can do to
Trimble to stroke him? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
cm~PIDEH'3'IM
f~"~' --'OONF!HENTlAE~->
'~L~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
--.-:----,-~.-,
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CONF1BENTfAt
The President:
I think they're worried about being rendered
irrelevant in 20 years, given the way the demographics are
going, it's better to make a deal now rather than later. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If you look at it, their popular majority is
eroding over time with the increasing birth rates, so now is the
time.
You'll have to come up with some sort of creative dual
relationship.
kef
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
That's consistent with what you are doing in
Scotland and Wales, anyway. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The.President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
No one wants to get up and put a sandwich in a
lunch tin to go to the factory if you have this going on.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
with you?
So all is well
You're getting re-engaged in the Middle East? kef
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDENHAL
CONFIDENTlhL
We're in a
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
difficult position'L-~.~==================______~ but we don't
want to be someone on the outside just seen as complaining.
We've got a good set of ideas. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Now
progress.
or some
CO}IFIDJ1::HTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIUENTfAL
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
(U)
Goodbye Bill.
Bye.
(U)
End of Conversation --
COHFIDEN'PIAL
Thanks for
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair
Notetakers: Sean Rice, Larry Wright, Tom
Crowell, James Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
The President:
(U)
(U)
(U)
The President: She's very happy. She called last night and we
had a good talk.
It's a three-hour difference, so she always
calls late, but she knows I'm always up late. She had her first
:'lECRE't'
Reason:
1.5{b;d)
Declassify On';
....
l0~::_
Yl
. ~.::,~:~~ Y:::.:(_L~;J-,.>~i
.sECRET
chemistry test.
(U)
The President:
Did he give any hint of whether he would run for
another term? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yeah.
(U)
SECRET
bt:br"{c i
SECRE'f'
The President:
The President:
+&t
The President:
I believe that a lot of things do happen without
his knowledge.
When they changed their economy, they did not
have the intermediate controls in place that a normal economy
has. We have a process going with the Vice President,
Chernomyrdin, Wisner and Koptev, that I think will work. They
say they're cracking down, but he is careful about what he says
in public, maybe because he doesn't want to be seen to be
SECRE'f
3ECREf
SECRET
---~
":
SECRET
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
'---_--'I yJ
The President:
The Iranians -- and I sometimes think the
Chinese ar.ethis way, too -- think we're so motivated by money
that we'll eventually cave in.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
to do. .k51.
The president:
One thing we ought to do is to some way get the
developing countries involved in a regime -- where they don't
have the same controls as we -- to develop an alternate energy
future.
There are things they can do now that won't hamper
growth, but they can do it now so that when they become
developed, they'll already have a different energy structure.
The trick is to get them involved without their thinking that
we're trying to choke off their growth; we need their growth for
our own sake. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRE'f
The President:
Yes, we will.
Well, carry
(U)
Thanks.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRE'l'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, Peter Huggins,
Lyle Harrison, James Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
Hey, Tony.
(U)
(U)
How's it going?
(U)
The President:
The speech went over pretty well, and we've
gotten some reasonable press. Some environmental groups are
pretty positive, some said we should have tighter deadlines.
We've gotten more business support than I thought, but the
traditional industries have dumped on it. The best we can hope
for right now.
I tried to leave open the language on developing
nations.
I was pretty explicit about the kind of joint projects
I think we ought to have, but using the language you gave me, I
was general on it. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
CO~TnDENTIl'rL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b,d)
Declassify On:
lCJA,>~,3j.9.ki;.r'. .--..
- - -- --.~'~;
CON'PIDEN'I'IAL
The President:
here. )J21
The President:
The President:
do. )Cl
CONPIDEN'l'IAL
COHPIBENl'IAL
Thanks, Bill.
The President: We will work on this other thing and see John
Prescott when he gets here. Thanks for working with me on this,
man.
(~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Not at all.
OK, bye.
I'll be in touch.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
(U)
(U)
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
[1
'.".
10
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, David Higgins,
Anthony Campanella, Peter Huggins, James
Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hey,
~Jny.
3:23~3:32
p.m. EDT
(U)
Okay.
(U)
I am due to speak to Wim Kok tomorrow.
CONPI DENT IM
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reas 0 n : 1 . 5 (b ; d) .. "~'h.ft'7.i~;:'-"~"'~-=~~--~"'\:
Declassify On:
J.O/ti~~~ONLIB~RYPH0TOCOPY ,,.,t
%?:;;:;:;~~~:~>,,~.;c ~?\~=;'~~;"k'o-:-;;;:::,:.:'~;~_}_:-:<:. !:~,~r,.~,
COUFIDEN'fL'lL
The President:
On joint implementation?
Yes.
kef
The President:
What 1 can say there is we know we need to leave
some room on language for implementing on how developing
countries would participate, but what about targets? That's
what I am really worried about. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The big problem we have here is that I not only
talked to you, Kohl and Hashimoto -- and I want you to talk to
as many as you can -- but I also briefed Senate leaders this
afternoon and I will brief the House on what I am trying to do.
It will raise more questions than it will answer if I cancel the
speech tomorrow.
I see what you're doing, what you want me to
do:
say what I have to say, but leave as much wiggle room as
possible for you.
jef
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
"
cmrFIDEHTIAL
The President:
The problem is I will lose all credibility if I
don't give some target range.
I have to say what our position
will be.
I will try to figure out a way to give it flexibility,
and, on jotnt implementation, I think I can do precisely what
. you want. ...{-et'
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Alright.
Thanks.
Alright, Bill.
(U)
(U)
All the very best.
Good-bye.
Good-bye.
-- End of Conversation --
'.
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Lyle Harrison, J. Laurence
Wright II, Jeff Rathke, Anthony Campanella,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hello?
Hello?
(U)
The President:
Tony, can you hear me?
last time.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
No problem.
(U)
The President:
I am on the airplane and usually it works, but
sometimes it doesn't.
Thank you for the letter you sent me
earlier this week.
I want to talk throu h what I am thinkin
about this issue.
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5(b
Declassify on:
The President:
I think this is very important.
Jacques Chirac
is in Vietnam right now, and I am trying to call him.
I will
talk to Yeltsin and several others over the next two days.
If
there is anything you can do to promote unity among the allies,
I would appreciate it.
I understand their position and the
popular sympathy in the Middle East for the people of Iraq.
I
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
We may need to talk again several times over the
next week, but I won't bother you unless I have to. We will
have to work together on this.
~
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, absolutely right. And the more that
can be done to publicize the work that UNSCOM has done over the
last six years, the better. )e1
The President:
Yes, I did.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Let's
in touch
The President:
Thank you for the meeting and the time you spent
with Hillary.
She just loved it. It looked like it was very
successful.
(U)
CONTIDE1H:' IAL
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CmJFIDEH'i'IAL
(U)
CONFTDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE
INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL,
E.O.13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, document no. 12
DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: George Chastain, Tony
Campanella, James Smith, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
(U)
The President:
I'm doing great. I know it's later there, but I
wanted to check in with you.
I've been on the phone a lot the
last three or four days.
I think we've made a lot of progress
in Kyoto and John Prescott has been very helpful. We have made
quite an effort to come to a common posjtion, and I've
1""------,
authorized our negotiators to show more flexibility.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I
The President:
They're getting closer.
If we can get all the
big I Annex I countri es to agree, mC' jb<:o~ get the developing
cOtqFI DElffIAL
Reason:
1.S(d)
Declassify On::
LUNtO'!UtN IIAL
CONFIDEN'fI:AL
countries to do more.
They agree on joint implementation
projects, but they're still resisting Article 10~
They seem to
think that we'll coerce them into joining. fe1'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Really?
in~Jrmation than I do.
y6
~
'------~/
The President:
The President:
Yes, we will get a lot of abuse, and I'm going
to get a lot of abuse at home. And I can't get it ratified
unless we get commitments under Article 10 from developing
countries. ;e1
Prime Minister Blair:
'-------~/
The President:
I do, too. We have one more day, and maybe we
can talk tomorrow, if we need to. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I hope it is okay. /
CONFI DEN'3'IAL
CONFIElEH'fIAL
The President:
Thank you.
l'he President:
Pr~me
Minister Blair:
The president:
Fine.
Is everything fine
~ith
you?
IU)
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Okay, I will try to find out exactly what
is happening on Kyoto and we can talk again tomorrow if there is
(U)
a continuing problem.
The President: Okay, I'll be available.
Goodbye, my friend.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
James Smith, George Chastain,
Bonnie Glick, Tom Crowell, Larry Wright,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello
Tony!
The President:
I'm doing alright, I'm slogging on.
i t ' l l be alright.
I think
The President:
I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Iraq
and Northern Ireland.
~. ".,
. CONl!"IVI!:M"fIAL
The President:
i':~~\:':'~'-'-_.c:-~~::":';;__ .-'~j,/r .
CeNFIBEM!IAL
The President:
I generally agree with that, but there's not a
lot of time left, we waited a long time, until the end of the
Muslim holy period.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President: /
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(d)
I
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Ok.
(U)
What is your sense about the timing of
The President:
It's going to take a couple of weeks to get
together, but not much longer. I would imagine we will be ready
to move with it not.J.,o;.ng__ ii!l.~t~H?-ybll'-r~ner::e~, .~
.
CONFIDENTIAL
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GONFIDEU'fIAL
The President:
violence? -tet
The President:
right? j.e}
The President
CO~TFIDENT IAL
The President: Well, I worked like hell on the Middle East last
week, but I didn't get very far. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
.
The President:
Yes.
OK, bye.
End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'fIAL
We'll talk a
SEeKEr
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
The Vice President
Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State
Samuel Berger, Assistant to the President
for National Security Affairs
Donald K. Bandler, Special Assistant to the
President and Senior Director for European
Affairs, Notetaker
Tony Blair, Prime Minister
John Holmes, Principal Private Secretary to
the Prime Minister
John Sawers, Notetaker
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
I agree, and some others do as well, but not
everyone thinks the ceasefire,w~~~LUL--LUL~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~,
SECRET
Reason:
1.5 (el),
Declassify On:; .
SECRE'3'
The President:
I agree. We will continue our contacts and
dialogue with Sinn Fein.
I also intend to keep seeing Trimble
and the other key Unionist leaders when they come to town.
Y21
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRE'f
SECRET
The President:
I agree that their willingness to open eight
sites is interesting and offers some hope that our approach
could lead to an acceptable formula.' ~.
Samuel Berger:
The President:
Yes, that might be acceptable if a few political
people were there in addition to the essential UNSCOM team. ~
Secretary Albright:
SECRET
Samuel Berger:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
The President:
SECRE'f'
i&f
SECRET
SECRE'F
SECRE'l'
(U)
, Secretary Albright:
panicky reaction.
The President:
But such a paper could also give us a margin of
maneuver.
It would show how much UNSCOM has accomplished in
reducing his stocks and capacity -- but not his future
potential. .J..!Cf'
Secretary Albright:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4( d)
The President:
:3ECRET
(U)
aECRET
SECRET
ECRET
EGRET
SECRET
10
SECRBT
ggCRE'f
11
jEeRET
12
SECRE'P
13
3ECRE'f
SECRET
14
End of Conversation
SECRE!
COMPIDEN'I'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: K.C. Brown, Cindy Lawrence,
Anthony Campanella, Joel Schrader and James
Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
The President:
Hey, Tony.
I saw you on the Prime Minister's
question time on C-SPAN yesterday.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
You got one hateful comment on Iraq from one of
your back benchers, and one hit you on welfare reform.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
It doesn't much matter which row they
come from, they're very often stingers.
(U)
The President:
here.
J..e1
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
',;.
INTONLIBRARYPHOTOCOPY ,);
CONFIDENTIAL
.-ter
The President:
Well they just replayed it on C-SPAN last night.
So, how are you doing? }e1
Prime Minister Blair:
I'm doing fine.
We have two big problems
to take care of at the moment: Northern Ireland and Iraq.
The President:
Yeah. He was very good.
told me to and he was very good. +&r'
The President:
You're doing right. Absolutely right.
I'll
support you on this. Even our Irish guys have been great.
Kennedy and Dodd say there is no choice and they promised to get
in touch with Adams to say [gap]. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
The President: Let's hope they behave while they are out.
That's the key, isn't it? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I agree with that. On Iraq, I just talked to
Sandy Berger. We have an agreed upon proposal to take to Kofi
Annan about how to do this. The Russians keep saying... can you
wait a second? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
Yes, he's got to go outside.
I have a door
right here.
I will let him out. (Pause)
Sorry. Hillary is at
another place working. We are not together. We're at Camp
David. Here's the problem we all have to watch. Because of
European public opinion and Arab public opinion, we don't want
to look blood thirsty and have to go the last mile. Saddam
needs a face saver. Kofi Annan would love to go in and save the
day, which is fine with me. The problem from my point of view
is, we can give them some sort of change in appearance here on
how to deal with the presidential palaces but it can't undermine
the integrity of the inspections and turn it from a professional
process to fundamentally a political one. We are trying to
arrive at language, whereby they open Presidential sites to
UNSCOM but palaces would be treated differently. Palaces would
be open to diplomats and political personages.
I think we are
agreed, at least that is what Sandy said. Apparently the actual
palaces would be subject to UNSCOM and then Annan could name
diplomats to go with them. But if you take UNSCOM out of the
decision making and let Annan make all the decisions, the
pressures on him would be enormous for a different standard.
Annan is talking about taking Ekeus with him. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
COHFIDENTIAL
might not be all bad, even though Ekeus is viewed as softer than
Butler because he didn't put heat on the presidential sites.
The truth is Ekeus was there at the beginning and he had so damn
much work ,to do on other places that it was an acceptable
compromise at the time. He wasn't really at the point because,
he was full up on other sites.
It might work out all right. My,
worst nightmare is being isolated because we can't agree to
something that looks perfectly all right on the surface. We
simply have to insist on technically qualified inspectors.
Look, I wouldn't know a chemical lab from a football field.
We
have a good opening position but the trouble is there is no
place to go after the opening. You and I have to work closely
together on this.
I called King Hassan and had a long talk with
him. He has been a good friend of the United States and of
mine.
The President:
I agree.
CONFIDEN'fIAL
I agree.
(U)
CONFIDENl'IAb
The President:
It puts him in a terrible position.
It looks
good to him because he gets to be a peacemaker and the real
issues are technical. Let me go back to the history a bit. The
history is that UNSCOM originally was set up answerable to the
Security Council and not to him, and he doesn't particularly
like that. There was a working group and an oversight board.
But there is a permanent staff at UNSCOM.
The real problem is,
for example, that if it were put under the Secretary General and
out from under UNSCOM, all decisions would come to him:
it
would be up to him to determine which site to inspect, where and
when.
They would have to go back to him and he would decide
when the files got closed, and which sites need future
monitoring. What we tried to do is say, look we don't want to
make those decisions either. We only care that independent,
making the inspections.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4 d
CONFIDEH'fIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
have this, they say the Israelis, but no one else has shown a
willingness to use them or share them with anyone else. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
A huge complex.
The President:
On biological agents, you hardly need a room the
size of a photographer's darkroom to do it. 121
Prime Minister Blair: That's right.
Is he now saying the only
outstanding issue is not the presidential sites but simply who
authorizes inspections? +e1
The President:
It is my understanding ... I've had so damn many
conversations today, I am not sure I remember.
I'm not sure I
know the answer on monitoring and corning back again. My
understanding is what he says is the outstanding issue is who
gets to come into the presidential sites. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Sites or palaces?
Jef
The President:
Both, I think. He has a higher standard for
palaces than sites, but he is basically saying he will let
someone corne in and look at both categories.
;zi
The President:
Yes and basically he thinks Kofi will be
responsive to political pressures if he does that and will take
us off line.
Saddam thinks Butler is a stooge of America, but
hell, I never even talk to Butler. He is a tough guy and I like
what he is doing.
I've reached the conclusion after eliminating
CONFIDEN'F Hili
CONFI DEN'fIAL
The President:
Je1
Awful.
L -_ _~~~~~~~~~~_ _ _ _~
The President:
I am going to talk to him tomorrow-or maybe
tonight.
If I get any clUe, I'll let you know. Listen Tony,
what's the most direct contact you have had with Iraq since
1991? For instance, has the British Foreign Minister talked to
Tariq Aziz?
.JRf
Prime Minister Blair:
I honestly don't know.
check and get back to you. Jer
I'll have to
The President:
If I weren't constrained by the press, I would
pick up the phone and call the son of a bitch. But that is such
a heavy-laden decision in America.
I can't do that and I don't
think you can. ..J..e"}
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENI IAL
'Phe PresidepL:
I agree.
The President:
I can't tell you how critical it is.
It costs
us a hell of a lot of money to do all this moving around we are
. doing, not counting the political costs. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFI DEN'3'IAL
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
CONFIDENTIAL
ke1
(u)
CONi luCNT AL
COHFIDEN1'IAL
PARTICIPANTS:
President Clinton
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Larry Wright, Tony Campanella,
Bob Ford, Tom Crowell, Jim Smith, Peter
Huggins
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hi Bill.
Hey.
We
CONFIDE~lTIAL
Reason:
1.5 ( b , e D . .
. '
DeclaSS2fy On,
~ '"'-.-
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The President:
President Clinton:
CONFIDEN'fIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b )( d)
President Clinton:
they?
~---~
President Clinton: What are they thinking?
is payback for what happened before?
President Clinton:
ever you do?
COHFIDEN'fIAL
CONE IDEN'fIAL
President Clinton:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
I The only thing
we've done so far, because we thought it would be what you
wanted, is we got in touch with Sinn Fein and told them they
have to make a statement and have the IRA make a statement.
Prime-Minister Blair:
President Clinton:
This is so stupid,
this.
Let me get
in touch wLth Bertie and we'll get back together.
I want to do
it in a way that's possible to keep this going.
Prime Minister Blair:
ou Bill.
President Clinton:
I agree.
Let me get on this and we will be
back in touch.
I am really sorry Tony this happened to you.
Prime Minister Blair:
the way through this.
President Clinton:
Thanks, man.
End of Conversation
COlqPIDEH'f TAL
3E C!<:E 'I'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Peter Huggins, Bonnie Glick,
Tom Crowell, Lawrence Butler, Gwenyth
Todd and Joe Marty
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
Hello Bill.
(U)
but not
We picked up
to wait.
1'&)
1G1
UNSCOM is
The President:
This is twice he's done this.
again, it's our fault, not his. Jer
ke1
If it happens
SECRET
The President: Well, if Kofi calls you before me, call me.
if he calls me, I will contact you.
I am just going to be
hanging around here today_
(~
And
SECRET
SECRE'l:'
The President:
--<-e-J
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I'll do that.
The President:
I want to work with you.
I don't want to
undercut you.
I'm pleased. Youfre doing well so far, we will
just stay in touch. This Iraqi thing might break in the next
six hours. -te1'""
Prime Minister Blair:
whatever time...
(e)
The President:
Alright.
(U)
Goodbye.
Thank you.
(U)
Goodbye friend.
-- End of Conversation --
SECRE'P
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Peter Huggins, Torn Crowell,
Jeff Rathke, Lawrence Butler and Gwenyth
Todd
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hi, Tony.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
You're faint.
(U)
(U)
Yeah.
(U)
-k-e"}
The President:
Well, I haven't.
CONFI DEN'fIAL
The President:
Yeah, I don't think he wanted to talk on the
phone, and our guys are guessing on it, too. it
Prime Minister Blair:
,The Preside'nt:
sure. -teT-
The President:
The President:
Yeah, and it's weird, because Kofi is not coming
back until Tuesday.
It's going to leak. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
ke1
What kind of
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
Yeah, no.
Y21
-ft"
The President:
I don't know, I just heard he will stop in Paris
and then fly on to New York City.
~
Prime Minister Blair: He may say he won't talk or speak to
anybody, but on the other hand, we have got to know what is
happening.
(-eJ
The President:
Yeah.
(U)
Prime Minister
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONPIDENTIAL
eONFI15EM'fIAL
The President:
That's what I worry about -- I talked to
Madeleine and Sandy before I talked to you. Let me see what I
can find out -- they think it can work if it is strictly
administered by Kofi, but we need to know what Butler's going to
say about it.
J,.e1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Yep, uh-huh.
(U)
The President:
Yep, but if we can't get it, we have to say what
we were going to say anyway.
(0
Prime Minister Blair:
I think we'd better get working on that
right away.
I hate being in this position for the next thirtysix hours.
~
The President:
That's really bad. Let me call my crowd back
and see what they say, what we can work out.
I don't like being
in this position. -+etPrime Minister Blair:
I can try to contact Kofi and tell him
that when he gets to Paris he needs to call us right away, that
we really need to know what is going on.
I think I will try
that. -fer
The President:
Okay.
)
L-________________- - - - - - Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yep.
(U)
cmlFIDEN'PIAL
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
Okay.
(U)
:_I___________________________________
_iL_p_r_i_m_e__M_i_n_i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__
The President:
Yeah.
----~:J
(U)
(C)
The President:
The President: That bothers me. Kofi's wait gives him a chance
to spin it, and I don't like that. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
'--------~
The President: Yes, Madeleine does.
there, too. ;ef
Prime Minister Blair:
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - - - - - - -
The President:
Yeah.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
I'll do it.
The President:
Alright.
(U)
Thank you.
(U)
Thanks, Bill.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONP1DEN'PL"rL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Pat O'Shaughnessy, Bonnie
Glick, Tom Crowell, Jeff Rathke, Lawrence
Butler and Don Bandler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello?
(U)
Hi, Bill, how are you doing?
The President:
Let me tell you what I
document.
First of all, the ood thin
How stand
I think we
have to study this document and listen carefully to what Kofi
says tomorrow.
je}
.
It is important that the commission rush a group of qualified
experts -- I think that we have to test the agreement soon. You
know, we have to get whatever the agreement is:
show up at one
of these sites and start looking around.
I'd like to do it
before I have to move the whole U.S~ Navy around again. Now,
COHFI DEN'l' 1M
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason: 1.5 (bi; d) - _ ;;..ri,---_ ~~sr'-' ~~~ .----~--------"',.
Declassify On:! 2/~80 - . _ ]
; __-<~ .-'~:r~~ LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY ).
.<?:..~::,-::;~-::~ __._,,_~ . c-';';:;";~_~"-' "->""..::___ ~ __/:;~-';'/
eOMFIBEM'I'IAL
-+et-"
The President:
First of all, you need to get this thing and look at it. What I
would like is to be in a position in the next two or three hours
to talk to Yeltsin and Chirac. ~
I want to compliment Kofi and say we understand they have agreed
to free and unfettered access,
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONn DEH'I'IAL
CONFIDEU'fIAL
The President:
The President:
Exactly, my view is that we may have another
twenty-four to thirty-six hours of word wrangling.
We just have
to see. )Q1
- Prime- Minis-ter Blair:
That's my
-ret
The President:
I'm not going to say anything for three or four
hours -- I may not be able to, but I'm going to try.
The trick
is to embrace the effort, pocket his commitment, and thank Kofi
for getting it, and he has never done this before.
or four hours,
gOlng
flesh
The President:
CONFIDEN'3'IAL
three
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
Tony, I don't know the answer to that.
We
haven't studied the agreement closely, and Kofi isn't here, so
.we can' t cail him. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
You and I don't want to rain on it, because if
we hadn't been tough, we wouldn't have had the damned deal. We
can't completely embrace it until we see the details.
We don't
want to be in the position of buying a pig in a poke and then
say, "Holy cow -- we don't know what happened to it." ket
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
CONFIDEN'fIAL
eONPIDEN'FIAL
The President:
That's why I just have to leave everyone where
they are, because we have to have a test.
I have to leave our
troops in place. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
We're having a vigorous agreement here. Any
time in the next two hours you want to talk, after you have seen
it, let me know.
)4
The President:
I wish you would.
I understand Yeltsin can take
my call in one hour. Chirac said he can't take my call for twoand-a-half hours.
That's a long time. He called here earlier,
while I was still in bed, and said he didn't want them to wake
me.
I don't think it's evasion, I think it's just the schedule.
It may be better not to talk to them right away. You get the
document and parse it a little, and see if there are any holes
in the road.
I'll try to call you before I talk to Yeltsin and
Chirac. Otherwise, I'll just talk to Yeltsin. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The moment I get the document I will look
at it carefully. And we can talk later. je1
The President:
Goodbye.
(U)
Thanks, bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
GONFIDaFfIAL
CON FI DEN'fIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: James Smith, Pat O'Shaughnessy,
Tom Crowell, Bonnie Glick, Jeff Rathke,
Nancy McEldowney, Rexon Ryu
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
The President:
Hold on.
The President:
~_~___.:.,~~/.r-----/.'
COWFIl)EHTIPrL
The President:
The President:
I couldn't agree more. We believe he'll appoint
a guy with technical expertise, who will have credibility with
Butler, but it certainly needs to be. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I couldn't agree more. You've identified the
same things I'm worried about. Sandy suggested a
which
is quite good; our position on this shoul b to
and
test. We need to clarif , then test.
CONFIDENTIPrL
;ef
COl>TFI DEN'FIAI:;
The President:
One thing that we thought of doing, is to get
Butler back in the ballgame, because we don't want him out; Kofi
is supposed to consult with Butler and the head of the IAEA, and
presumably that will keep him from underminin the inte rit .
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
I understand. We need to ask all these
questions, but no matter how good his answers, we need an early
test.
kcJ
Prime Minister Blair:
Has
anyone spoken to Kofi?
The President:
I spoke to him last night at 8:30 my time, which
was 4:30 his time. He was a little groggy, but he wanted to
demonstrate to us that the agreement would fully meet the P-5
instructions he took to Baghdad.
I said that's great, but at
that time I hadn't seen the agreement. He promised to call me
when he got to Paris.
I don't know if he's in Paris, but I
CONFI DEN'l'IAL
COHFIDEH'FIAL
.(.e-)-
Jer
to.
II tel
The President:
I'll talk to him after I talk to you . And i f I
get anything, I may talk to you after I talk to him. .....(-e1
CONFIDEN'f'IlW
CONI"IDEM'fIAL
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Thanks.
-- End of Conversation --
CCMFIDEN'l'IAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Tom Crowell,
Joel Schrader, Jeff Rathke, James Smith
and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Tony?
Great.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
The President:
Let me tell you where we are and we may be able
to do something together. You mean you have aid to facilitate
some of these things? ~
COHFIDEN'P IAL
3/~~'rON LIBRARyR~91()c()pyl
'-
'~
.. '
GO~JFIDEHTIAL
Yes.
Let me tell
Right.
CONn DEN'fIAL
'~.'
': .. ,.,
The President:
I think there might be a way to do that. What
I'd like to do ... if I could give them the overall proposal
first, then we could get together and put this to them.
I think
if we could coordinate that way, it would give them a way to get
started on it. By putting more money on the table, it would
create a
if they're looking for a reason -- an excuse to go
forward, it would be good. k1
Prime Minister Blair: Right. You reckon you will put your
proposal forward in the next couple of weeks? ~
The President:
Absolutely.
jf
Yes.
fer
Yes.
The President:
Yes. We're ready to go back to them and I think
we have some chance of getting them to move.
~
cmlFImmTIAL
CONPIDEH'PIAL
The President:
Yes, I thought we ought to fight if off. My own
view is that Saddam got what he asked and we got what we asked
for, and not to politicize UNSCOM.
~
,--_____--'7
-J/
L -______________________________
The President:
Jer
Yes.
Absolutely.
The President:
That's right.
cONn DENTIAL'
,.,'.
'I
,."
. r-' .
,.-., ,
~--.
,','
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,~.
eOMF'I DElffIAL
The President:
So far I'm feeling pretty good about it.
keeping my fingers crossed. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I'm
the next
The President:
be down. ...(..e1""
leaded for a
ear to
Let us put our proposal to them and let's see if we can get
together and meet and we can push ahead. That can give them the
boost to move to permanent status talks.
s,e1
Prime Minister Blair: Right, okay, Bill, just one other thing
on Northern Ireland. ...(-e1""'
The President:
l..;L:;
'~j"
'u
"- 1 ,I,''i_
t','
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
You do?
~------------------~I
The President:
We'll do that.
The President:
Let me ask you this: have you gotten a good
reaction to Straw's extradition decision?
cr
The President:
I will do my best to bang their heads together
and caution them on good conduct, but attacks are likely to come
from quarters none of us can control.
J,.e)
'~LIN:r<2~..L.WMRY.PHP:r6CpPY
.- I_
. f .__
COHFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
You really think you can go back to the original
timeframe and get something done by May?
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes, I do.
ke1
In May.
The President:
.~
When?
fCl
ke(
The President:
Then they think they'll get a bigger turnout for
their referendum, too? ;ef
Prime Minister Blair:
A bit of that,
We
COI?lFIDENTIAL
Yeah, okay.
CONf'IDEN''fIAL
The President:
(U)
(U)
Me, too.
COHFIDEN'PIAL
You'll be alright.
Anyway, we
We are looking
The President:
She's great. You need to decide, we all do, if
anything would be served by me going to Ireland after
Birmingham. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
It is a mess.
-+er
COMFIDEN''f'IAL
10
CONFI DEN'FIl'rL
The President:
. Yes, alright.
Okay, Bill.
End of Conversation --
CONP ID'EH'fIAL
(U)
(U)
SECRE'P
!i2v
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Peter Huggins, Sean Rice,
Tony Campanella, Jim Smith and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
I like Bonn.
I spent the
(U)
I went to
I like i t as well.
(U)
The President:
f5"!
(U)
~.-
....
\~"'.: ~.-. ~
5ECRE'l'
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
The President:
)81
The President:
That's interesting, but remember, Tony, he was
18 points down in the last election, but I'm afraid in this last
term they haven't been able to restore any growth. He looked
good in the beginning.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
ECRET
3EC~El'
The President:
Scharping?
Yes, Scharping.
I
~B11~ali~r~:~=;~;=;i~~~~~~~~~~============~~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)( d) I
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
~hat kept us going in 1992.
~
That is
Prime Minister Blair: There was a sort of buzz about the place.
We .had a good time. Bill, thanks for everything you've done on
Ireland.
(.21
The President:
J.&'r
ou did. I dee 1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
PrimeMinister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
bECRET
reciated it.
SECRET
ECRE'F
The President:
I tried to use public and private meetings.
met with all of them. Well almost all of them.
The President:
The President:
The President:
ECRE'f
SECRE'f
SECRE"T
5
SECRET
SECRET
SEGRE'T
6
SECRET
SECRET
SECRET
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SEq RET
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SECRE'P
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The President:
Sunday.
(U)
(U)
The President:
Yes, for the United States. No American
president has even been to Africa. Carter went to Nigeria and
Liberia and Roosevelt and Reagan stopped over there.
It's
unconscionable what we. haven't done in Africa.
(C)
Prime Minister Blair:
I think it's a fascinating continent.
I'm really excited for you.
(U)
The President:
(U)
(U)
(U)
The President:
Okay.
(U)
End of Conversation --
EGRE'P
3ECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Peter Huggins, Anthony
Sampanella, Robert Ford, Karen Harris and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hey Tony.
(U)
(U)
-tet
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
3ECRET
The President:
.-fCf
Prime Minister Blair:
-+G+
The President:
I had a good round on Saint Patrick's Day.
really got to know each of them. ~
The President:
There is something else I would like to discuss:
the meeting I had with Mandela when Bandar magically showed up .
....f-B-r
II
E.O.13526,section1.4(b)(d)
The President:
1~________________-tl=E~.O~.~1~35=2=6,~s=ec:t=io=n~l=.4~(d~)~I____________________~I~)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I
.sECRET
----------:::...:;;
."
SECRE'l'
SECRET
GECRE'l'
SECRT
'-r-'---~.'-'---:'-~,
"
The
That's my theory.
The President:
...(-et"
The President:
ah good. By then we should have a clear path on
what to do by then. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)
The President:
Good.
SECRE'f
J.e1
ke)
Okay.
Good.
+e-I
))21".
SECRE'P
Bye.
Alright, Bill.
~ay
hello to Hillary,
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
SECRE'f
3EeRE'!'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Peter Huggins, Joseph Wright,
James Smith, Anthony Campanella and Robert
Ford
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello.
EDT
(U)
Hi, Bill.
Hello, Tony.
(U)
(U)
~~~--~==~~~~~
I East. I
The President:
Yeah, I saw some of Trimble's guys made a big
show when you voted. )Qf
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I wonder if there is anything I can do from this
end.
I will have some announcements when I go to Birmingham;
there are a number of things we can do, even if they don't want
me to go to Ireland.
One of the things we could do is have
SECRET
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (b!, d)
Af!;;" _. JO~;;:"-------"'~-'--'-"~"'(,
Declassify On:' 4/~?~
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,
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. . . . __ ~_~
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SECRE'l'
The President:
In terms of my going there, I have no feelings
at all on it.
I just want to win the vote.
This thing could be
a parochial vote and those unionists could say, "this is our
lives and our futures, we have to decide." .k81"
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Why don't we do an informal poll at the end of
the first week in May, see where the undecided voters are by
religion, and see if that would help.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Good.
.(.G-1-
~------------~I
I
The President:
J81
SECRET
SECRE'F
ggCFlE'l'
3ECRET
SECRET
SECRE'f
SECRET
SECRET
- - - - - - -
The President:
here. -ter
he~p
with
The President:
It will be a great victory.
You know, it will
be interesting to see where the splits are between the
Protestants and Catholics.
I know you must have someone up
there working the polls. We ought to be able to calibrate
everything.
The important thing is just to win the referendum.
~
Bye.
Right.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
SECRET
Love
cmlFIDENTIlrL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Sean Rice, James Smith, David
Higgins, Marianna Papadimitriou, Jeffrey
Rathke
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
(U)
The President:
love Durham.
(U)
(U)
The President:
I did.
I liked it so well I brought Hillary
back to see the cathedral and walk around the town.
I took her
to York and Durham on one of our trips.
(U)
COHFI DEN'I'IAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b(d)
. Ai.",~~,''---~--~---~-;,;,
Declassify On:! 5/g;~~ .',
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t(:~~_tON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
CONFIDEN'FIAL
(U)
(U)
The President:
I'm doing wonderful.
I'm looking forward to
being with you.
I'm glad you and Major went up there together.
It was good.
(U)
Prime -Minister Blair:
The President:
(U)
(U)
was
The President:
I think they didn't want to give Paisley and his
crowd a new pretext -- "that's the guy that gave Gerry Adams a
visa and broke the eggs," and all that stuff. j.Q-'(
Prime Minister Blair:
COH"FIDEN'FIAL
cmIFIDEH'f IAL
it's all
The president:
.JKf
Prime Minister Blair:
I'm not
()21
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The President:
If we say it in Birmingham, it might still have
enough echo to get there.
fer
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I agree.
It certainly would. And
the stuff you've been saying today, or someone in the White
House has been saying today, about money and investment -there's something leading the news now about that. ~
The President:
kef
COWFIDEN'HA::b
I I
The President:
The President:
(C)
I don't know.
.ke!
The President:
The President:
I agree with that. Yesterday, I had a group in
to see me that I think is called WAVE.
It's a group of victims
who lost children, brothers, and parents. They were mostly, but
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIlSEN'fIAL
The President:
The President:
I will do it,
CONFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDEl1''l?IM
~--------------~
The President:
....(.ef"
The President:
In terms of you and me making another economic
statement, I will do whatever you think is best for the vote.
If you want to do it in Birmingham or down in London.
yc(
'Prime Minister Blair: Well, I think there are two sorts of
stories from your angle: one is investments; the other is a firm
message to the IRA. ~
The President:
Jf
The President: See, by the time I get there, we are only a week
from the vote.
So it probably is good to do it sooner rather
than later so it does not seem like some desperate election
move.
tet
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I'll have our guys get in touch with you. Maybe
we could do two separate announcements -- a Sinn Fein one and an
economic one. You organize it, and I will read whatever script
you want me to read. .+eI
~
~
The President:
That's all it is. What did you make of
Netanyahu? Madeleine said you were very good.
J1
Prime Minister Blair:/
COHFIDEN'FIlrL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
I spent a lot of time with him in the last year.
After Madeleine's first session, I thought he was a hard
negotiator and not a no-negotiator.
Then he called and asked
Dennis to come over, and I thought that was a good sign. And
now Dennis is there and his spokesman put out a statement saying
he is not coming Monday. I never thought he would, but I
thought he would come once I got back from Europe.
I don't know
yet what's going on, but I may want to call you again once I
find out. Je}
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDEN'fL"iL
}e1
This may
cop, where
COMFIDEH'fIAL
It vanishes. ~
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
on It more.
He calls me
)R1'
The President:
That's exactly where the Israelis are.
percent of them want that.
(e)
Eighty
The President:
Okay.
I agree.
Prime Minister Blair: And, as ever, many thanks for all your
help. Love to Hillary.
(U)
The President:
CONFIDENT lAL
Yes.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
Bye.
Yes, goodbye.
(U)
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
COHFIDEN'3'IAL
tONFIDElif'i'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Larry Wright, Bonnie Glick, Pat
O'Shaughnessy, James Smith, Peter Huggins,
Jenny McGee, Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
I just spent the last 48
(U)
The President:
;z1
CONFIDEN'fIAL
j,
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
JWf
It has
layed ver
well here.
The President: Yes, but you have to follow the locals. You've
done all you can.
I was glad to see in my morning intelligence
that there is movement in the polls your way.
I think the
undecided may break your way. +&r
Prime Minister Blair:
It is possible.
L-~______________________________________~I
CONFIDEN'FL"<L
Paul McCartney?
The President:
That's great.
.J!2:'J
(Y1'
fer
Did he really?
j.C1-
fer
COHFIDEN'FIAL
C'ONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
Well, let me tell you also that Hillary and I
had a wonderful time at Chequers.
It was wonderful for us.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Oh Bill, I can't tell you how great it
was to have you. And for the kids, Euan's friend went back to
school the next day in a daze.
I told my people that it was a
real tribute to you that you were prepared to sit down and spend
time with them in that way. We loved having you and had a great
time, we really did.
(U)
The President: Even in the darkest days back in '94 and early
'95, when people thought we were finished, you can always spend
time with kids and you'll never know how you'll have an impact
on a young person that will change everything for them. A
little extra time is the best investment you can make.
Besides
that, it's interesting for me.
And in the work we do, you can
lose contact with people younger than you. A year'younger is a
year younger than you.
You don't even think about it, and then
you turn around and find out it's been a year since you've
.talked to anyone who is 25.
I liked it:
they were delightful
young men.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Yeah, I'm glad you did.
are still on cloud nine.
(U)
The President:
You ought to be proud of yourself. You've done
every damn thing you COUld. When the vote happens, we'll be on
pins and needles over here.
I guess we should know something by
mid-day our time tomorrow. What kind of vote counting operation
do they have over there? lei
Prime Minister Blair: Well, this is Northern Ireland.
Everything is done differently.
They won't start counting until
Saturday morning. We will know Saturday afternoon some time.
(C)
The President:
yef
~~~~~~~~~~--
CONFIDENTIAL
ce)HFI DEN'? IM
will know by this time tomorrow evening. We will let you know,
and when the result comes through, let's just hope it is the
right one .. ---f.-r
The President:
thing.
(C)
All right.
(U)
Alright, Bill.
The President:
We had
great time.
(U)
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
'-- End of
Conversation --
CONFIDEN:fIAL
Goodbye.
(U)
GOJ?rFr'DE~JT IAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: David Higgins, Sean Rice,
George Chastain, Joel Schrader and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi Bill.
(U)
Well, congratulations.
The President:
You got 71 percent.
Protestant vote was yet?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
(U)
(U)
The President:
Do you think it was as high as that? I just
talked to Trimble and he was still moaning about the vote. He
sounded upbeat but he said he lost in his constituency.
jQ1
Prime Minister Blair: Overall, the most accurate poll was 55
percent. Yes, it was about five percent of the nationalist vote
that went no as well,so that brought figures down a bit. ~
The President:
I just did the math and it seems the vote is 53
percent of the nationalists and 49 percent for the Unionists.
Is that about right? ).G1'
emU'I ElENl'IAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
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CON'FIDEN'PIFtL
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The President:
I don't know.
I was just calling to
congratulate a few of the guys and he told me about it.
I have
to check my schedule on whether I see him or not but we can
always have the message delivered. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
."_~?'-~-,.~~.~''--''':;"_'-':-''''':'--''..1-~-:''-~-'''-''--':--'"~~!,\.
j:
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'CONF'IDEN'I'IAL
The President:
shouldn't he?
Sure.
(U)
The President:
CONFIDENTIAL
Je1
The President:
I'll hammer it hard.
I thought if I can advance
a specific agenda -- I will work on getting a Sinn Fein person
to work on decommissioning. You just let me know if I can say
to him, "I want you to tell where those remains are and whoever
tells won't be subj ect to criminal liability." ~
Prime Minister Blair: Okay, I will get someone to come back to
your guys in the next few days.
~
The President:
(U)
The President:
I offered him a helluva deal to see if he will
do it.
I scraped together every penny, every pop gun I could in
72 hours.
I still think there is "a chance he won't do it.
f/2:)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE CONVERSATION
PARTICIPANTS:
PRESIDENT CLINTON
BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BLAIR
LOCATION:
NOTE TAKERS:
DATEmME:
\ .!.NT~.kIBRA~'Y:PfIoTqco~i
.'. 1
, -... --__ __ ;.
:,1
:
.
:~~
1:.: ....
THE PRESIDENT: Let me tell you where we are. We are having terrible trouble with
Janet Reno. I think the FBI must be working on her. If you know anything about this
Starr business, you know law enforcement agencies are not really under direction of the
President. What she is saying is that this is coddling terrorists and making concessions
to get a trial. That is a policy statement and not her call, and I can disagree. Then she
raised all these questions as to whether it was legally sufficient. If you say there is no
British or Scottish objection to the character or legality of the trial, it is your law; it's not
our judgment to make. What I am trying to get her to do is give me an opinion saying
she disagrees as a matter of policy, but Justice can find no fault from the point of view of
the law. Then I think we are OK.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Ri ht.
THE PRESIDENT:
I.
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THE PRESIDENT:
,THE PRESIDENT:!
. -_ _hIE~.~O~.~13~5~2~6,~s~ec~ti~o~n~1.~4~(d~)~_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~I'
CONFJDENTML
THE PRESIDENT: How long has Helmut been in, 16 years? That's a hell of a long
time.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: That's right.
E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)
THE PRESIDENT: If the vote is close enough, he should do that. I still think Netanyahu
would have been better off doing that.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Me, too.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: I agree with you. Just today we had the announcement of
job losses here as a result of Asia. It's the first time it's been brought home.
THE PRESIDENT: I am really very concerned about it. The first place it hit us was in
agriculture. We export about half our grain and about 40 percent goes to Asia and we
are down 30 percent this year.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Gee. Thirty percent.
THE PRESIDENT: And we can't get new markets because of bumper crops and the
. climate change caused by el Nino. I think with 1.4 percent growth, unemployment will go
up a little. I just don't see any set of scenarios where we do better unless we get Japan
turned around. I would guess that you're seeing increased flows to Latin America like we
are. Thank God for Latin America, they are doing quite well.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Absolutely right.
PRESIDENT CLINTON:
i,
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.
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GONFIOENTb\L DRAFT
THE PRESIDENT: Anyway, I think our first order of business should be to deal with the
Japanese government. The Chinese are hanging in there and have not devalued, but
their target was revised downward. I feel I they will hang in there several more months.
There is a limit to the pounding they can take, expectations have been raised. You can
see, it is so palpable, they are proud as hell they have stayed strong and have not had to
devalue. But at some point, they'll have a hard time hanging on. I think the quicker we
could have some sort of EU-US initiative - This was this huge real estate boom, but the
Japanese stock market lost 50 percent of its value in the last five years. We're just not
getting any reinvestment in growth. The way they have done all tax changes to date,
people are saving the money, and they're spending all this money on a world-class big
infrastructure that hasn't done anything. I know they are frustrated because, basically,
they-have taken a whole series of half-measures and it has not helped them. They have
dragged Asia down.
THE PRESIDENT: Talk to Prodi. They've been very good at working with us, by the
way. Bob Rubin sent a/l our best people over there, but their political mechanism is
inadequate.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR:
THE PRESIDENT:
L I_ _ _
---"-I=E.=O=.=13=5=26;,=se=ct=io=n=l=.4~(d",",)='.I_ _ _.....l
THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, the reform movement had a false birth under Hosokawa. Did
you ever meet him?
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: No.
THE PRESIDENT:
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Yes, and maybe not the last. Jospin was here last week. He
really loved his time in Washington.
CONFIDENTIAL
DRAFT
THE PRESIDENT: I will follow up on Kosovo and get you a briefing on the Middle East.
It's a little more ambiguous than the last time we talked. Netanyahu has moved on some
issues and there is a chance we can break through. I didn't think he was bargaining in
good faith, but now I have seen some change and we might have a shot at it. We'll work
out Irish schedule and get the Attorney General to sign off on the legal adequacy as
soon as possible.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Again Bill, 101 percent support.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, I appreciate it, goodbye.
PRIME MINISTER BLAIR: Goodbye.
CONFIDEN'f'IhL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Tony Campanella, Robert Ford,
Cindy Lawrence, Sean Tarver, Matthew Sibley
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Yes.
(U)
(U)
Declassify On:
,i
(U)
(U)
Isn't that a
COMFIDEN'fIAL
Reason:
1. 5 (d)
(U)
(U)
I ate at a
it had a
had a
(U)
cm:rFIDE~H'IAL
(U)
The President:
I spent the weekend up in Long Island with him.
We talked about you. He and Tom Hanks came here last month and
showed me their movie "Saving Private Ryan," about Normandy,
before it was in the theater.
It's an enormous film, really
. good.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
je1
The President: Well, you know, it's the second time we've met;
it was much more relaxed this time.
The first time was in
Germany and I was on a campaign swing for Kohl
ou can
ima ine, but we had a good talk
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
GOHFIDEH'f IAL
COHFIDEHTIAL
The President:
I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) I
The longer you hang
around this business, it becomes apparent that very few people
make it this far by accident. They don't just give these jobs
away.
J.Ri
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
I called you to talk about Kosovo.
It is
getting worse. The headlines show that, but Milosevic is going
for a military solution. Serb security forces are not only
suppressing Albanian militants, but are also engaging in a
systematic campaign against the civilian population.
I think we
are getting closer to a major humanitarian disaster. ~
Milosevic has a sense of doing this under the threshold for NATO
military response because he believes that NATO will respond
only with a UN resolution, but Russia guarantees to block it.
My view is, at a minimum, we need to make him think again. We
need to finalize planning that we started, identify forces and
think about some sort of ultimatum to get him to stop the
offensive and restore autonomy for Kosovo.
~
I believe we ought to make it clear that, while we would like to
get UN authority, we can do it without it.
I know you differ
here, and Albright talked to Cook about asking the UN Security
Council for the necessary authority.
U21
Let me tell you we are headed to a collision on Kosovo and what
is going on in Russia.
I talk to Bob Rubin about every day.
I
am still quite concerned about their economy and about the
stability of the Yeltsin government. His health is
deteriorating and a lot of noise is being made about controls on
freedoms to get order in society. ..(.e)
CONFIDEN'PIAL
.4
The President:
Let me ask you this then. Shouldn't we try to
get Chirac and Kohl to sign off on ultimatums we would give
Milosevic? Word of planning would be somewhat helpful.
Convince Chirac and Kohl that a UN resolution is not legally
necessary.
I know how Chirac is on this, but it will hurt
Yeltsin if we put him in a position of having to sign off or
block now. .J.e1
Prime Minister Blair: /
/J
[------------------The President:
We can nose around it. His economic problems
are horrible and his internal political problems are awful.
I'm
very worried about this.
Yeltsin was going to go on vacation in
COMPI DEN'I'IAL
COWFIDEN'fIAL
August, but then he had to come early, even though his health
needs the rest.
I am going over there and meet with him for a
few days in September, but I'm very worried about this. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
].
'------------/
The President:
I don't know, we have to work on that.
We have
to work through another option, apart from a Security Council
resolution.
They would have to raise holy hell, but, in the
end, if we handle it in the right way, it would be the best of
three bad alternatives. Better than forcing them to veto it .
. Better than forcing him to eat it. My problem is I am afraid
what happens if we let it deteriorate more. There is a rumor,
news story, of 500 people in a mass grave.
It may not be true,
but the other side is trying to force us in, too. We have all
those problems you and I discussed before. People want us to be
their air force to get independence. But I think the near term
problem is we went through all this with the Bosnian civil war
and I don't want to replay it with another Muslim population .
..+er
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes, that is exactly what's doing it and
Primakov gave it to him. ).e1
Prime Minister Blair: /
The President:
down. Kinkel's
impact on their
basically it is
J,e)
COWFIDENTL"rL
COHFIDEHTI1'.L
The President:
I think they over read the IAEA refusal to
recommend ending the inspection regime and going to monitoring
on nuclear.
The IAEA said they had just a few more things to do
here.
It would have been reviewed in August for monitoring in
October but, for whatever reason, they reacted the way they did.
Now is not the time for us to overact.
They probably hope we
will do that and spend a lot of money moving the fleet back in,
but I don't want to do that right now.
We'll monitor it
closely, but, on the other hand, don't let them think they can
wish this away. ~
CONF'I DEN1'L"xL
CONFHlEN'fIAL
The President:
I think we might, but hopefully we'll have our
course on Kosovo by then. Two other things.
L-----1:1=E=.O=,=1=35=2::6=,s:=ec=:ti=:o=n=1.::4(:::;b::::)(=d)"==!.._ _ _.......J1
The President:
1)
Yes.
keJ
Thanks.
Thanks Bill.
Thank you.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDENTIAL
(U)
(U)
(U)
CO!<fPIDCN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair
Notetakers: David Higgins, Tony Campanella,
George Chastain, Jenny McGee, Chris Jansen
and Ralph Sigler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:'
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
The President:
Tony. Well, I just called to tell you I was
thinking about you.
You've had a miserable day.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
(U)
Aer
The President:
Do you believe the person who gave the warning
made a mistake or did it deliberately? )Q7
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Jer
: '. i-'e
J.
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COlifl"IDElif'f IAL
---ll (,0'
L . . -_ _ _ _
The President:
It is probably more important now than before.
You need to decide as time goes by if we need to visit the site
and make a stop.
(.t')
Prime Minister Blair: Absolutely.
I've visited some of the
victims and families tonight.
It was pretty harrowing. kef
Pretty tough, isn't it? ~
The President:
The President:
I just had to sit with all those people, with
their families, who got murdered in Africa.
There's nothing you
can say, but it matters to them to know the leader of their
country came to see them, so you did a good thing. Even if you
felt like you have five thumbs. ~
Prime Minister Blair: /
C~----The President:
Je'(
~--------------~
The President:
Do you think they will? They could do more good
in less time by helping you get these guys.
tGt
//J
1....
_________
The President:
~I____________________~
The President: Not just Gerry Adams, but did the IRA condemn
it?
What do you want them to say? --fE-)Prime Minister Blair:
'--------~/
CONl"IDENTIAL
COHPIDEH'PIAL
The President:
If who proposes?
The President: And they will agree? Both will agree? You
would like the IRA to say, look, what happened is a part of the
past, it's allover, and if the chief constables can agree on
new security measures, they will support them? I'll see what I
can do.
(Q1"
Prime Minister Blair:
L-______________________________________________------------------
The President:
%
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I've got it.
I will get on this right away.
I
guess I'll have to wait until morning to call them, but I'll be
up late tonight. ~
The President:
Okay.
Do they have a
com IDEN"fIAL
The President:
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
...(..G-J-
yz)
yzr
The President:
I've been up to my ass in this Africa bombing,
because there's a lot more than meets the eye on what happened
in Africa.
If we were on a secure line, I could tell you more.
But I'll see what I can do.
I'll put Sandy on this tomorrow.
I'll make some calls tomorrow. )e(
The President:
Damn right.
]
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
If Sinn Fein really forms an alliance with the
Unionists, that leaves the other group out. You'll have a
localized version of what's happened around the world, where
terrorists are not associated with or funded by governments.
In
this case, what you've got is a cell.
~
I don't know who's giving them money, but we're going to
increasingly have to deal with terrorists with no ties to any
nation-state, including Iran, if the precedent there keeps on
track. But in the case of a lot of Middle East and African
countries, we could be dealing with these people, like in those
old James Bond movies with SPECTRE and Dr. No. We're going to
have a twenty-first century version of those.
ycr
We're already dealing with drug cartels. The Colombian Army has
been defeated in battle four times in the last year with narcodealers.
They do not have the physical capacity to extract
these people.
They don't engage in terrorism; they just kill
people who get in the way of people making money.
If you can
CQ~JFIPEN'PIAL
CQNFIDEN'P IAL
The President:
If you could bust these guys in a hurry, even
pick up just one or a couple of these guys.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Okay,
Thanks, man.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
CONFIDEU'PIAL
Goodbye.
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: David Higgins, Lyle Harrison,
Cindy Lawrence, Liz Rogers, Jim Smith and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hello, Bill.
(U)
The President:
Hi, Tony.
I am sorry the other phone was not
working.
Thank you for your statement.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
Not at all.
It is important it is done.
~~~~~
The President;
Yes. We thought they were having a big meeting
there today, but we won't know for sure for a few hours.
This
place we hit is maybe the biggest terrorist camp in the world,
with 500-600 people there at a time. We thought we had good
intelligence that the leaders planned to meet there, but
unfortunately i t was reported in the international press; there
was no hint in our press of any consideration of an attack. l81
There was a report yesterday of rumors, and more than rumors,
that we were concerned that they planned to attack a third
embassy.
We also took down one of their cells in the Balkans,
so they are annoyed at us anyway. I'm sure you know this guy
signed a Fatwa and said that he would kill thousands of our
people.
J.81.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
SECRET
SECRET
The president:
Yeah.
SECRET
The President :
Yes.
(U)
-The President:
(U)
Goodbye.
End of Conversation
SECRE'f
Goodbye.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Joel Schrader,
Liz Rogers, Jenny McGee, Jim Smith and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hi.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
How are things?
(U)
(U)
The President:
This is my best state. You know, if I'd been in
Wyoming, they probably would have been shooting at me. You
never can tell.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Good, I'm pleased about that.
you had all this stuff with the hurricane, too.
(U)
The President:
That's all right.
a lot worse.
(U)
cmlFI DENTIAL
Reason:
1.5(b,Q)
Decla"ify On, .
I'm sorry
8/2t;;-;;;::::;:::':oPY~1
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COHFIDEHTIPrL
Go ahead.
(U)
COHFIDEN'fIAL
The President: I
I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
I'll do it. When do you want me to call him?
Today, tomorrow, as quickly as I can?
(e)
Prime Minister Blair:
yC)
The President:
The President:
Let me ask you this. What's the date that Gerry
does the actual decommissioning? When does the IRA actually
have to turn some guns over? A week after that?
~
CONE IEJEN'l'I1'l:L
COHFIDEN'FIAL
Prime Minister Blair:
1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Let me ask, what kind of understanding are you
trying to reach on the volume of weapons and type of ammunition?
$)
Prime Minister Blair:
IE.O.
The President:
So it's something de Chastelain can say is
sUbstantial and must be significant.
I got it.
I'll call him .
.Je)
The President: Now, what the hell do you think is going on over
in Russia? I've got Strobe Talbott, my Deputy Secretary of
State, over there in Russia. We're watching it closely. Our
stock market took a big hit with this rumor that he would
resign. Yeltsin's in the dacha, Chernomyrdin's working on
confirmation.
There are rumors that Yeltsin would resign once
Chernomyrdin is confirmed.
I don't know, but I know this:
They
are absolutely insistent that I come.
I can't initiate my not
going.
It's kind of a mess. That could sink their economy or
politics sure enough.
kCl
CONFIDEHTL~iL
Russia.
The Economist a couple of weeks ago had a great little
piece on the missing social agenda. The charities are taking
over a lot of it, but the reason ordinary people felt so totally
insecure was they really don't think there's any social safety
net. --fC!
I think it's worth going over to try to work through this.
We've got to reassert our commitment and reassert the importance
of the weapons agreements we can still make, but tell them
they've still got to embrace democracy and free markets and have
tough Russian solutions to tough Russian problems.
The President:
These social pressures, nationalism, retrograde
socialism, were present in Poland, Hungary, and to a lesser
extent, the Czech Republic.
For all kinds of reasons, they were
able to make the transition with a lot less fallout.
Russia is
a big country that could basically suck in a lot of stuff from
Warsaw Pact nations.
I am appalled to the extent there are not
'the functioning intermediary institutions without which neither
a democracy nor market economy can succeed.
I'm quite concerned
now that a working majority of the populace is for the
suspension of some democratic freedom just to have a strong
leader who'll get the damn show on the road again and make the
trains run on time.
They're disappointed in the executive but
also disappointed in the Duma going too much the other way. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
If you think about it, it's quite interesting
how many places in the world there are -- including in your
discussion. with me -- where, at least to outsiders, the econom~c
answer or the political answer seems clear. And if you could
eOMFlDEWf lAL
COlU'IElENl'IAL
just get over the hard knock of doing it, i t ' l l be better on the
other side, but the political system is unable to cross the
hurdle.
Both of us have been rather fortunate that our
political systems are still functioning well enough to do what
has to be done. ~
The biggest economic tragedy is not Russia, but Japan. Even
with their massive infrastructure and understanding of the
modern economy, they still can't put together the political
decisions that are manifestly in their interest.
I don't know
if Europe is on the upsurge of growth.
There's still some
internal growth that could be generated by France and Germany by
internal changes. ~
I don't know how much longer we can s'ustain our growth without
some more growth in Japan. We're absorbing 30 percent of
Chinese exports now, 50 percent more than our world GDP share,
and there's a huge increase in Japanese exports.
They can't buy
our imports, and the Chinese can take a lot more but they have
certain controls.
I'm worried that if we have three quarters
rather than one quarter of economic slowdown, there'll be an
increase in the trade deficit. We'll see a whole round of
protectionist pressure build up again, which will affect Europe,
if only indirectly. jQt
I think the Japanese issue is still the biggest economic issue.
The Russia issue is a political issue.
If they get a
dictatorial leader, they'll be much harder to deal with on
Kosovo and other things, I'm afraid.
I think it's worth my
going over there.
I'll meet with the Duma leaders from other
parties and have a little no-BS conversation about what's going
on here and hopefully reduce a little of their paranoia about
America and the West.
It may not be a conventional success, but
I'll go as long as they want me to come -- unless Yeltsin
resigns in the next two days -- if nothing else but to talk to
Chernomyrdin, who is physically and mentally quite alert and
strong, personally. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
IE.O.
The President:
What I'm worried about with Yeltsin is -- in my
last conversation I had with him, he said all the right things,
even on the things we disagree on, he said all the right things,
at least from his point of view, but he really seemed profoundly
tired in a way I had never heard him before.
I am afraid his
energy, his will to go on may be sapped.
~
COHFI DgNT ll'd,
COHFIDHTIAL
yz)
IE.O.
Hello?
Hello?
Bill?
(U)
The President:
Yeah, I can barely hear you.
It sounds like
four other people are having a conversation on the same line.
(U)
(U)
..kef
Prime Minister Blair:
1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I got it. And I'll get to work on it.
Honestly, I think politically for him, for Gerry, it might be
easier for him to do the decommissioning if it comes about with
me being there.
There's a perception in Northern Ireland, and
I've tried not to do this, but there's a perception that I've
tilted more toward him than Trimble.
In that case, it could be
CONFIDEN'l?IAL
COHFIDEH'FIAL.
The President:
-*'t
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Goodbye.
Prime-Minister Blair:
(U)
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEHTIAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WAE=iH I NGTON
The President
Prime Minister Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
The President:
Hello.
Tony?
Yes.
Well, good.
(U)
How are you?
I'm up at Balmoral
Is it still light?
(U)
It is a beautiful evening.
The President:
I bet it is.
I'm doing fine, working.
I just
got off the phone with Kohl on Russia. How are we doing on
Ireland? -+er
Prim Minister.Blair: Many, many thanks indeed for speakin
with Gerr Adams. Where we are?
COHFIDEH'fIAL
Reason: 1.5(b,-d)
. _ . _ ..~ ______ ---,.---::----",.'
Declassify On:! 8 / ~~. -j"';'>~
~~
:
,
'f,:;
~-.:::~_:.. ~:~~'.
~_l-!.<'._r.-,
CONFIDEN'fI1II:L
The President: Well, you know do you think we can get them to
meet next week, while I am there? )J2f
Prime Minister Blair:
Not impossible.
je(
The President:
It would be huge and help me enormously here
with what I am dealing with.
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
They could obviously do it in Belfast, or they
could go to Omagh with us.
It would be profoundly symbolic.
~
C@JFIDEN'l'IAL
COUFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
I'm not asking you to promise.
I had a tough
talk with Gerry Adams.
It was probably worth doing even though
he didn't say yes on five and six.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
-The President: When I see you, I really hope we have some time
to talk about Russia and Kosovo too. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I agree with that.
do is get him confirmed, and
Yes, likewise.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
cmfFI DEN'fIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IPtL
THE WHITE HOUSE
DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE
INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL,
E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
ISCAP APPEAL NO. 2013-090, documeut no. 34
DECLASSIFICATION DATE: October 14, 2015
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Cindy Lawrence, Robin Rickarad,
Matt Sibley, Joel Schrader, James Smith, Don
Bandler and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Tony.
(V)
I'm fine.
(V)
The President:
anyway.
(V)
That's my gut,
This morning?
Yes.
(V)
(U)
(U)
Thanks.
What's up?
Anyway,
(V)
CONFIDElf'PlkL
Reason:
1.5{b,d)
Declassify On:
9/2lL.!;l:8' ___f"~~,,--~<~~-_c.---~-L\
~:'~T~NLmRA~Y PHOTOCOPY
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President:
y1
The President:
In theory that is what they agreed to.
willing to do any kind of schedule? keJ
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Are they
-+er
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The IRA never disarmed and it can't look like
the Unionists forcing them to do so? yc)
The President:
+Gt
GONF! DEN'l'IAL
IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I
IE.o.
COHFIDE1H' IAL
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
It was wonderful.
-f+-
The President:
I agree with that. Everybody is so up. The
trip to the Irish Republic was unbelievable.
There were 50,000
in Limerick.
Bertie is in a strong position to weigh in with
Sinn Fein.
ter
=-oJ
--~
The President:
Let me ask you something.
I've been thinkin
about all the possible permutations and angles.
The President:
I understand why the schedule is not enough.
Then he is giving them something concrete that he can't take
back and he is gettin something symbolic.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
COHFI DEN'l'IAL
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
Let me ask, I understand you announced that you
will leave your army in the barracks while your police do the
actual patrols. Are they putting any pressure on you to make a
symbolic withdrawal of British forces? fer
Prime Minister Blair:
1L-____~IE=.=O=.=13=5=26=,=s=ec=t=io=n=1=.4=(b=)=~=)~I______~
The President:
Would that matter to Gerry? Jim Steinberg
doesn't think you could work a deal with him.
I tried to
him to ex lain to me what the roblem was
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
This is a big hang-up and they are not ready to
cross the psychological divide.
I understand and sympathize
with them; I am kind of an expert in that.
But they did make a
deal.
I wonder, it seems to me the biggest barrier was they
have talked themselves into this position that is linguistically
accurate, but politically unrealistic. ~
The deal said they would get in the Executive branch when they
get the votes, and they would decommission in two years.
They
never disarmed, but here they would be disarmed to get something
they are legally entitled to anyway.
What if we could get the
schedule out and there was a symbolic decommissioning, for
something outside the agreement, so they would not look like
they were coerced by the Unionists? +er
The President:
Do you want me to raise this with him in a whatif way? I won't tell him I talked to you about this. ~
CONFIDENTIAL
~~:,~.f'':'"':~~~~~-:'c-~ ~-~'--- "--~.~,
CONFIDEN'fIAL
\~--------------~
The President: Are there any other sort of permutations or
circumstances that might permit them to do it? keJ
Prime Minister Blair:
LP_r_~_.m_e
__M
__i_n_i_s_t_e_r__B
__l_a_i_r_:__/ ____________
The President:
------------------------~
J&r
COHFIDEN'l'IAL
yn
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
(;tl
The President:
I agree. The chemistry is a lot better than
what I thought. We cOincidentally have a big Irish celebration
here in about 30 minutes. They are applauding George Mitchell.
I might nose around with some of the Sinn Fein supporters to see
what I can do to nudge them a bit. These Americans still have a
littl:e bit-of influence because they have money. ).e1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
schedule. Jc.ef
The President:
I agree. From Trimble's point of view, he is
not asking for much. He is asking for something symbolic in
return for something tangible.
From Adams point of view, it is
not such a good deal since he gets a year and a half in return
for something he has a legal right to right now. Either you
have to get Trimble to change by getting a different good deal,
or get Adams to change. Jim Steinberg says we tried that latter
course, and he didn't seem very excited about it.
It might be
worth going back to Adams and Bertie to see if they can't figure
out how to identify who has done this. ~
Just because they disbanded, I don't think it is enough for
those 29 people, that beautiful teenaged girl who was blinded,
COUFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
The
ood news
I am glad
that you are hosting this G-7 meeting and Russia will be able to
be part of it.
It think it would be a good idea to talk to them
practically about the lessons learned from other countries with
financial problems.
I am
to call Yeltsin now that he has
Primakov in place.
The fundamental problem
was they
proper y Wl
putting in place the
building
that created a vacuum. All the oligarchs
and mafia are shipping money out of the country. They want to
come back with a solution that they can put old Humpty Dumpty
back together again and they can't do that. ~
On the other hand, it is equally true that there are
international dimensions here. We have to rethink the IMF deal.
It seems to me that we need to develop some sort of pro-growth
strategy for the rest of the world. You have 40 percent of the
world in recession now.
In the end, you and I can't keep our
growth going.
I just want you to do anything you can to walk
the Russians through this and maybe cut them a little slack on
some of these macro issues, but hey, you have to build a
skeleton before you can have the body of an economic power. You
might want to call Yeltsin after this meeting. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Yeah.
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
I am going to give a speech in New York on
Monday on the general outline of what we see. Deputy Finance
Ministers in the G-21 have been working for over a year. We
have the basis for some work. Maybe I can talk to you when you
get here on the 21 st My instinct is that the G~7 should call
for them to at least present recommendations to us and to get
heads of state together and show some leg here. Bob Rubin
continually cautions me that we don't want to unrealistically
raise expectations if we don't know where we are going.
The fundamental difficulty is that you can't get out of the fact
that these countries have to do certain things. On the one
hand, there is incredible fluidity in capital movements, while
on the other hand there is a pro-growth strategy.
If they are
not willing to have the infrastructure, all this pro-growth
strategy won't matter.
If we get them juiced up again, the
money will flow out and be in somebody's Swiss bank account.
It's a tough knot to untie.
The IMF tried to modify their
approach in Indonesia, but it doesn't necessarily work in the
context of massive, breathtakingly rapid capital flow.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
I've reviewed what the G-21 people are working
on. A lot of it is technical and arcane, but in aggregate it's
pretty good stuff.
It can make a big difference.
It will
remain arcane and complex and dense to the world as long as it
is operating at the level of deputy finance ministers. My
instinct is maybe we ought to talk next week before you corne to
New York and we do this conference, because maybe while we are
CONE'IDEN'HAL
CONfIDEN'f'IAL
...+-e-r
The President:
It might help. Cardoso is cratering and is
facing reelection in October.
I am just sick about that.
I
think he will get reelected, but it will be tough.
Let me do
the Irish thing and you can chew on all of this.
I think you
should call Yeltsin after the meeting. Let's try to talk again
on this. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
time.
(U)
Thanks again.
Okay, Bill.
Good.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
(U)
Bye, bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
cmlFIDEN'l'IAL
.. ,r
COHF'IDEN'l'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
SUBJECT:
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair
Notetakers: Mariana Papadimitriou, Doug
Bayley, Matt Sibley, Joe Schrader and
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
(U)
Hello Bill.
I'm fine.
(U)
I'm in China.
(U)
Is it hot there?
(U)
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b,d)
Declassify On:i 10/QJ4,Q.~_.j,'_;';;~--'~"'~----~----:-~.,
t::INTON
LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
~ ~
_
1
/J
COWFIDEHTL"xL
into a veto.
I KO. 13526, section 1.4( d)
CONFIDEN'l'IM
On the
COHFIDEN'FIAL
.Y:!
Prime Minister Blair:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
Yes, he is great.
He
He
(-C)
plan. The
of keeping
have IMF
the
Gordon said what I have been saying all along. We have got to
modify the Bretton Woods convention and implement some sort of
bank regulatory system that has the effect of doing what bank
regulation does in each of our countries and the stock market
regulatory systems do, so that we can control the boom and bust
cmIFIDEN'FIAL
CONFrDEN'I'IAL
1-)
Europe is
The big three
CmJFIDEN'fIA'b
But they did not disagree with the central idea that
was succinctly put in Gordon's comments, which is what we have
all been trying to say.
I think there is still a chance we can
do something more quickly if we want.
The big front line test
now is what happens to Brazil. Cardoso won the election but he
has a lot of people in the run-off elections, three weeks from
Sunday, or whenever.
They have less than $40 billion in cash
reserves now, and I don't think he can stall for three weeks
without saying what his reform proposal is.
If. Brazil goes
south we are all going to suck eggs big time.
~
-r
CONFIDEN'fIAL
6
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
Do you think we will get any grief for not
having the Russians there? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
rfl
Vl
The President:
I agree. That is why I want to go in there
today and be very aggressive.
If Europe and Japan will support
this and we have a united G7 front, we will be in pretty good
'hape.
I
The President:
They might like it if we could put outside
pressure on them without appearing to.
That would be the best
of all possible worlds.
I need to go over now and give a talk.
I will be back to you within 48 hours to let you know where we
go from here.
How long are you going to be in China? kef
CONFIDEN'fIAL
CONtIDEN'PIAL
The President:
Back on Kosovo, we will be in touch with the
French.
If the Contact Group meets Thursday we have to go
forward with the ACTORD no matter what the Russians say. We
will tell them we won't have to do this if your deal works.
This guy, all he understands is pressure and he lied before, and
pressure will increase the chances that the deal will work. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
couple of days.
(U)
The President:
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
- -
"c-
--~------~""~;
CON'f'rO~N'nAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Liz Rogers,
Robin Rickard, George Chastain, Jim Smith,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(UD)
The President:
Good.
(U)
..'"
I saw Mr.
(U)
;::
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~T~h~e~=p=r=e=s=i=d~e=n=t~:__~I~t~h~ink
'.6'.~
~
o
~
it is.
In a way,
CONFIDENTIAL
Classified by: Glyn T. Davies
Reason: 1.5(b,d)
.
Declassify On: i 10/1J~9~~.;,.;::'--~-c------~~~.
~~~~~c~~::~~:,~~~:~:~~:,J~
,."i
The President:
first.
Maybe.
lS lS aggrava e
y the fact that their economic
situation is worse than when they signed on to peace. The
Israelis close borders at the drop of a hat and they never
concluded all these economic things, the roads and airport and
industrial park, they have been on the verge of doing for months
and months.
~
Ul)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I think it might be important, depending on what
each side asks for.
During the next four days I might need to
call you again a time or two. Where will you be? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I will be here and anything I can do to
be helpful I will, just give me a call anytime.
I will speak to
the Europeans or anything. ~
The President:
(e)
Yes.
(U)
CONFIDElfl'L"tL
well.
I understand de Chastelain's group got the lead on the
decommissioning issue, but I heard you think it will have to
wait until next spring.
If there's anything I can do to help .
.)-e"r
IE.O.
And as soon as
happens, he
start cheating, but they'll argue it's not enough.
~
We really need to carefully coordinate our positions to keep
maximum pressure on him so we don't have to take military
action. We don't want to look weak three months from now.
It
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFIDEHTL''xL
looks so good right now, just the right thing being done in the
right way. We really, really need to coordinate our positions;
I'm convinced we can avoid military action if it is always
hanging there.
But it would take 3-4 months to try to get
everybody where they were. And all the forces of the last 3
months will reassert themselves. Milosevic will cheat a little
here and there and undermine the integrity of this thing.
That
is my only sort of yellow caution light, but otherwise it's
terrific.
It's good to have some good news. -+et
The President:
I like that. ~
GOHFIDEN'fI}'rL
IE.O.
COHFIDEN'l'IAL
The President:
the seed issue I a ree. On an of these
finance problems,
E.O.13526, section 1.4 d
they could
have done this for a pittance of what they have to. We have two
different issues here. The longer we wait, given the amount of
leveraged money that is out there,.the greater chance of a more
serious collapse that will take more money to fix.
I do believe
we need to have a hardcore bright line to help Brazil and keep
Latin America from getting into this. The risks of our not
being successful are greater than when we helped Mexico. But
the risk will be minimized if simultaneously we have a
comprehensive short-term strategy, including these countries but
not limited to these countries.
~
At least have a framework agreement that in the long run wiil
sort of stabilize confidence and make people think this can be
made to work.
I believe the global version of what we're trying
to do in our respective countries is riding on this.
If this
comes apart at the seams, we'll have hell putting this back
together and putting in a coherent social component.
That is
what I believe. I think it is very, very serious. Much more
than what I say in my public remarks, because I have to keep
people jollied up here. ~
We just literally this minute got Gordon's proposals in.
Everybody here will be ready to see him by tomorrow and I will
CONFIDEN'FIAL
CGNFIDEN'PIAL
Prime-Minister Blair:
The President:
If you have gotten Tietmeyer and the French
central bank moved off where they were at the meeting of 25
countries (G-22) over here where Gordon spoke so well -- it
sounded like we'd read the same book just before speaking, we
don't want to give them a chance to change again. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
COUFIDEN'FIAL
GGHFI DEN'fIkL
-- the timing.
Yes, I will.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
CONFIDEnTIAL .
Goodbye.
(U)
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Prime Minister Blair
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Hello?
Hi, Bill.
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I am doing great.
(U)
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Classified by:
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Reason:
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CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
Exactly.
iT
The President:
I couldn't agree with you more.
I have not
mentioned the prospect of using our exchange rate stabilization
fund.
I wanted to get IMF funding through Congress, and the
Germans are not yet for it.
I keep thinking that if we work at
this, we can get a lot done, but I have to figure out a way to
get them into it. We got to do it, and the central bank is
notoriously independent.
CONFIDEN1'L\L
Cot1FIlJEN'fIAL
;ef
If we've
Let's see how far we get on Monday.
The President:
(.Q1
got something to say. How are you doing on Ireland?
It will be helpful i f you can intervene
Prime Minister Blair:
I'm seeing de Chastelain, who is
some time in the near future.
CONFIJ3EM'l'IAL
CONfIDENTIAL
).,Q1
The President:
Yes, I think so.
I would say we have a better
than 50-50 chance to get a deal, to get them into final status
talks. Well, take care.
~
Prim~
MiniSter Blair:
Take care.
(U)
The President:
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
Goodbye man.
(U)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Frank Jarosinski,
Elizabeth Rogers and Robin Rickard
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi Bill.
Thank you.
Congratulations.
It was terrible.
(U)
+e!
The President:
I was going home every morning at two or three.
The last go around dragged on for 36 hours, like the Irish
thing. But to be fair, the difference was you were integrating
both into one political system. Here we were dealing with two
diverging political systems.
CONFIDEH'fL"tL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5(b,d)
De cl ass i f y On:': 1 0/2 ~,O 8ioo?"""'~~~_O"-'-~--~~"'~,
CONFIDEN'fIlltL
,.
When you were doing the Irish thing, you were actually in it
with them -- you had some leverage. All I can do is give them
money and my time. Here I just had to talk them through it and
wait it out.
It took 85 hours.
In the end, everybody pats me
on the back; but they have to take all the flak; Arafat took
some too. -t+If it works, I think we have a chance to break the whole thing
open.
If this is faithfully implemented, this mra~k~e~s~t~h~e~______,
ultimate resolution of bilateral issues easier.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d) I
e
Israe-lis know in the end they have to have an agreement.
good, but we still have along way to go. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I feel
The President:
It is a lot like the Irish thing, there are a
lot of similarities. But you are in it with them. You have
more moral authority.
You have to make a decision to release
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
I I t is an
prisoners.
I don't. I
interesting thing.
(C)
Prime Minister Blair:
I was absolutely fascinated watching this
on the news.
It was a real roller coaster, wasn't it? ~
The President:
It was amazing. We had the agreement, then it
got undone. We had a deal. You see there were two prisoners.
Most can't understand, but ou know what symbolic significance
prisoners have in Ireland.
COHFIDEN'fIAL
I can imagine.
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
The beautiful thing about it was Hussein, who
looks l.ike he is at death's door. ;e1
Prime Minister Blair:
He is an amazing man.
The President:
Someday we should write a book together about
these two things, about our role as shrinks. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I could tell when I saw the signing
ceremony.
I could just tell what must have been going on -- the
nightmares to not let it disintegrate. You see they needed a
figure there.
This is what you will have done. You will have
brought them to see in the end that both of them had to do the
deal. -t-)The President:
I don't have any question that I did the right
thing, but it was tough for them.
I tell
is one
thing I would like you tOrrd=o~.~~I~w~i~s~h~~o~u~~~~~~~o~f~f~a~____,
letter to both of them.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
~~==~====~------------~
Prime Minister Blair:
I am supposed to phone him, but I will
write him a letter.
I will definitely do that. Aef
The President: Call him, but if you write a letter, it can be
released.
I know we need to talk about finances and Kosovo a
bit, but, the other thin;
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CQNn DENT IAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
~~~~__~~__~--:---:-__~~~~~~~________~__~~~I
Okay,
Bill, I will certainly do that. And once again, well done. It
was a real personal triumph. ~
. The Presiderit:
Thank you.
(U)
The President: I got it. Last night Wes Clark literally stayed
up all night working on him. Milosevic agreed to a specific set
of things that most reasonable people would conclude if he did
between now and the day of the ACTORD, the 27 th , he would be in
compliance. The one thing that is most important is that
nothing we and the French say between now and then should look
like anything other than that we are prepared to put the planes
in the air. We are on the same wavelength. {et
I think that he will do enough to comply for us all to agree
that he's done what he has to do. In the last several days, he
has done a lot of things to comply but also some backsliding.
We just have to hang in there. -+etcmlFIDKNTIAL
CONFIDEH'FL7I,L
I agree absolutel.
t,.ef -
+e1
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDEN'l'VlrL
The President:
One thing I can't figure out how to do, is to
find a device that all of us can live with directly or
indirectly to put limits on the degree of speculation while
leaving markets open to trade, investment, and even appropriate
hedging against currency reevaluation up or down. We can't have
over a trillion dollars a day changing hands without some
regulatory limits. We car.'t afford to have hundreds of millions
of dollars moving on a 90 percent leverage where they only have
to put up 10 percent. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
You just can't have 90 percent leverage -- the
compounding is devastating. You also have to have some way to
buy the private sector into this to stop hemorrhaging outflows
from these countries.
Some don't feel this way, but these
capital credit controls for the short term can work -- just like
if the market drops more than 10 percent in a day, we can
suspend trading. But they don't work over the long or medium
COl?lFIDEH'fIAL
.JK}
The President:
One thing
particularly if there are
that our absolute outside
meeting, leaving open the
or Ja-nuary _or if we think
Absolutely.
Absolutely right.
The President:
It will empower them and makes them members of
the club. I think it is very good politics. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
It is why I am anxious to do it.
s otted it absolutel .
You
The President:
Alright.
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
COtilfIElEHlIAL
Yes, he is.
You probably don't
No.
:J
I haven't
The President:
There are center left governments in every
country in Europe now.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
It is interesting with its possibilities,
but it also poses problems.
(e)
The President: Now that we have the responsibilities we have to
bear the burdens of the consequences. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I'll have Rubin follow up with Gordon Brown. We
may want to do a conference call next week. We can put out our
general statement on architecture of the precautionary financing
facility and ratify it when it is done.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d)
us greater credibility.
)1
CONFIDEN'FIAL
Absolutely.
i t will give
_ COMf'IDEliffTAL
,'
The President;
!z')
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
CONFIDEH'l'IAL
COHFIDEN'PIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASH I NGTO N
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, Frank Jarosinski,
George Chastain, Jenny McGee and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
(U)
The President:
Fine, how are you doing? It's election day, so
I am just sitting around. Essentially, the elections are going
well.
These are good times, but the Republicans are in the
majority and have more money than we do. Not since 1922 has the
president's party gained seats, but we are doing well and the
exit polls look good.
They have outspent us, but we essentially
have a good message going.
(U)
I understand that you have been briefed on Bill Cohen's message
on Iraq.
I really appreciate all that you have said publicly,
but I still think that we have to take decisive action this time
to respond to Saddam's challenge. It is clear to me that Saddam
really wants to force the Council to lift sanctions without
giving up his weapons of mass destruction and missile program.
The Vice President talked to Crown Prince Abdallah today in
Saud'i Arabia, and he promised the support that we need. Bill is
discussing the details with him tonight in Riyadh.
~
We are working on a resolution for the Council, and I hope that
it can be finished in a couple of days. But it seems to me that
we need to be in a position to act soon, rather than drag it
out. We need to be in touch with Chirac.
I still have
questions about what they would say about the use of force.
The
COHFI DENT IA1
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1/5(b,d)
... '
Declassify On: _. 1l/0Y~-GB~,J'7C:'';;':''-~-'O-~~"-~'-~--'-~""'\.
-:r
i?:~:~;~!:4;:~:~;;~.,.);"i;-;~.:;~-.>-~,-:\~.~.~~:.~:_---/.,~.~",\.
COPlFIDENTIAl
The President:
I agree with you. Kofi seems to be keeping his
distance since Saddam shafted him. What do you think about
sooner rather than later?
~
Prime Minister Blair:
COIU'I15EWf IAL
The President:
~
~
The President:
I don't know. I was thinking of over the next
several days.
It will take time to set things up and to develop
a case against him.
I've got to know who is dancing with us and
who is not.
I just wanted to check your temperature on it and
ask you to call Chirac. On the details, we need to be in very
close touch and work together. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Thanks.
All right.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
CONFIDENTIAL
(U)
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair of the United Kingdom
NOTE -TAKERS:
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
Hey, Tony.
Fine.
(U)
(U)
(U)
The President:
Is it cold in Vienna?
(U)
Amazingly
The President:
I just wanted to check in with you on Iraq and
Ireland before I go to the Middle East this weekend. On
November 15, we said we would hold off on any strike while we
test Saddam's promise to cooperate with UNSCOM. So far, the
results have been mixed. There has been a lot of monitoring,
which is easy for the Iraqis to accept. But, UNSCOM was blocked
at Ba'ath party headquarters this week. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
_______________________
___
2
~he
The President:
No.
It's
The President: We think we can get them out in 24 hours.
a much quicker turn-around. This may be part of what he is
miscalculating. He may think he will have more notice than he
would.
yt'll
TQf
.sECRE'f
ifj)
The President:
We can do it.
(l~s,
~)
Right.
The President:
No, we don't. My gut is that he most likely is
going to say that he got some cooperation, but not full.
This
will make us think really hard on whether we can in good
conscience vote for this comprehensive review, and if we don't,
he will provoke a crisis over that.
It seems to me that it is
pretty substantial that he didn't let them go into Ba'ath party
headq~arters.
Anyway, you will have to talk to your folks, and
we may have to talk again in a few days when I am in the
Mideast. -+&JPrime Minister Blair:
Okay.
The President: Anyway, the other thing I wanted to tell you was
that I talked to Trimble and Adams on Tuesday.
I missed Hume
because he had to leave for Oslo.
I made it clear privately and
publicly in a speech that decommissioning is essential,
J.Z!
The President:
I did all I could.
can do, just let me know. ~
~ 3ECRE'I'
/'
SECRE'f
Oka, Bill.
The President: After the first of the year, after I get all
this crap behind me, I would like to talk to you about this.
?-f
Prime Minister Blair:
I'd like to talk to you about a bunch of
things because there is a lot going on here in Europe.
yei
The President:
~----------------The President:
I had impressions watching his campaigning that
they adopted rhetoric similar to ours, but they didn't think it
through. You had a program to implement and so did I, and
that's a big difference. ~
prime Minister Blair:
Now,
ere are other prob
Turkey, such
as human rights. Anyway, you might nose around Vienna and see
if you can send him help. +eT
Prime Minister Blair:
Sure, I
opportunity at dinner tonight.
The President:
There rna
be an
Tp('eECRE'P
TOSE,CRET
'7-
Alright, Bill.
Bye.
Bye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
~SECRE!
(U)
TH E WH ITE HOUSE
WAS HI NGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair
Notetakers:
James Smith, Roger Merletti,
Frank Jarosinski and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
Kosovo.
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (d)
'-" >9-J~"-'''''''--"~-=~-~-'--''-''''~'--':''>~~' ,
Declassify on:! 1 /~'
l'
'f i .." ,- 'i~()NJJB~RYPHo;rocOPY' '1
I
--.k :
~:~L-:~_-.. __..L~..-,..:~.-:-'
be determined not to let him undermine the KVM and work over
Walker. I don't want to be slow or indecisive. I will try to
get Congress to go along with me and not stop it.
(R:')
Domestic politics aside, my problem about ground forces is that
if we send them in without some type of agreement beforehand -it doesn't have to be as detailed as Dayton --
CONPIDEN''fIAL
The President:
One thing is to go to them and say, "Look, if
you want us to do any more you have to help, too.
They
probably have as many violations of cease-fires as Milosevic,
though his are more egregious.
"For a long-term resolution you
have to come to the table too, you can't have it both ways, and
you never take any responsibility.
J,K1
U
/I
The President:
Blair~~s.
(U)
The President:
It is a very difficult problem and I don't
pretend to have all the answers. We have to be careful not to
be weak and move decisively with NATO now, knowing it won't
solve the problem without a political resolution.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4 d
to sell
COMn OEM! IAL
ln an lmposslble posltlon.
I may not be able
time with Congress, but I certainly can't do
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
That is good.
L -_ _-------------~
The President:
I agree.
The President:
The President:
GONFIDEH'f'IM.
Can I do anything?
(U)
The President: I'm really worried. Gerry Adams was here not
long ago, and I had a firm talk with him. I am really getting
kind of frustrated by them not doing anything. yel
.
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
),Q1
Yes, it does.
LP__r_i_ffi_e__M_i_n_l_.s_t__e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__: ____________________________________==:::>
r::IE-.O-.-c-1':-35::":2-::-6,-s-ec-ti=-o-n-1.-4(-b:-)(--'d)I
CONFIDENTIAL
, CONFIDEHTL'I:L
The President:
All right.
What else? ~
The President:
Let me tell you what we're going on and what the
lay of the land is. We tried to negotiate to get a solution to
the EU restrictions in '92.
I would still like to do it. The
problem now for me is, I don't have any flexibility for
delaying.
Congress was going to impose them by statute, and
that-was trouble that I headed off. But the only way I could do
it was by sending them a letter that said I would do it, and
basically there is a little time left.
February 1 plus 10 days,
then there is probably another week after that before customs
could enforce it.
If there is any way you think your guys have
flexibility and work out a solution I would like to do it, but
one operation here lost nearly a billion dollars since this all
happened.
The law is pretty clear.
I don't want to do anything
to cause you problems.
In principle, I don't want Congress
legislating in the trade area. We had to send a letter that we
would do it, and now time has run out. So if there is anything
we can do, I will do it.
I don't want to cause you any trouble
but we're sort of stuck on it. Jer
Pr ime Mini ster Blair:
The President:
I know it does.
I've been fooling with it a
long time and also some people who are pushing it have enormous
influence in Congress and I know them well.
We sort of delayed
this for years and if there is any way we can resolve it, it
would be a good thing.
yef
Let me ask you another thing.
another year in office,
CONFIDENTIfJ,
(C)
.C ON F I DEIfy I f.L
Je1
Okay.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
The President:
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
..- :;
CONE'IDElfrIAL
Bill, we.' 11
cm;rFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WAS
DECLASSIFIED UNDER AUTHORITY OF THE
INTERAGENCY SECURITY CLASSIFICATION APPEALS PANEL,
E.O. 13526, SECTION 5.3(b)(3)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
James Smith, Roger Merletti,
David Higgins, Matthew Sibley, Elizabeth
Rodgers, Robin Rickard, Michael Manning,
Larry Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
time.
(U)
Al had a wonderful
(U)
COHFIDENTIAL
Reason:
1.5(d
Declassify On:
CONFIDEH'fIAL
The President:
Yes.
Let me tell you, the Prime Ministers of
both Macedonia and Albania were here today and they make .us look
like old men.
They are 31 and 33 years old.
The President:
I agree.
(C)
The President:
First of all, I agree with everything you say
about maintaining pressure on Belgrade and the Kosovars on the
interim settlement.
I'm encouraged by Saturday's talks.
There
is no other way it works over the long run unless we can get a
peace agreement and troops on the ground. -tc+-
CONFI DENT IA L
..k81"
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Great. Let me say, there's one other thing that
would help me.
If you put out that we talked, say that we have
this under active consideration. That is what I just said
publicly.
If you could not say that I have made a definite
decision. Because the Congress is Republican, at every public
hearing we have, they start moping and saying that I expect them
to fall in line afterward because they never refuse to support
the troops.
If you could say I haven't made a decision, that
would give me another day to massage the congressional psyche
and break it loose here. kef
Prime Minister Blair:
Don't worry, that is absolutely fine.
That is very good indeed. Thanks, as ever.
~
The President:
Well, you are doing great.
press in the New York Times.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Well,
(U)
The President:
You got good press in the New York Times and I
got a good editorial in the Guardian.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Guardian. (U)
The Pres iden t : They said I was more 1 iberal than you.
know if that is good or bad.
(U)
I don't
Prime Minister Blair: Well, it's good for you. Your state of
the Union, as I suspected, had a big impact around Europe.
I
was in Vienna last week with center-left leaders.
It made a big
impact there.
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
JR7
The President:
Yes.
-i-et"
Prime Minister Blair:
I think that is absolutel
to be a big part of our discussions.
IE.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)1
COHFIDEH'FL"rL
. ~-;~--.ft~F'c'=~~c~~~-"'~!
'~~INTON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY
. ~~~_:~~~.-..::_ ;~"~~.!~~,",,-_';_:::::~~~J...."""
r.~;....'i.,-
right.
It has
CONFIDEHT L,\L
The president:
I agree with that.
I think when we do the next
G-8 meeting we really ought to give some thought to setting up
our trade position and also think about what wrinkles need to be
in the finance system position as well. We will have a lot to
talk about in advance, but the G-8 will give you a forum and me
a forum and our crowd a forum to elevate some of these issues.
J..&r
Prime Minister Blair:
I agree completely.
vtI
The President:
Yes, he just left here. He is going home on
life support. You know he did his best, but I will be surprised
if he pulls out of this. -+et
Prime Minister Blair:
I just saw him a couple of days ago and
thought he was looking better.
(e)
The President: He had a severe relapse. Noor brought him over
here.
I just think that this is the way these conditions are.
They overwhelm your system and you have nothing left.
Y1
Prime Minister Blair:
other thing.
CONFI DEN'' lAL
(,,~~?-ffi;~~i""~-,-,..=~p~,--..-c;""1
INTON LIBRARY
t
,. . PHOTOCOPY' ..",.
.. - ~"
'.'-,~.. "'~~"..~~.'
.
. -.--~.
..,.....-.',.'..""7",.~;'.~\~~~.:':'>-.<-
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CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
(C)
The President:
I hope so.
The President:
We need him.
(C)
Yes.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
COUFIDEN'l'IAL
,-
(U)
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
British Prime Minister Blair
Notetaker: Bonnie Glick, David Higgins,
Robin Richard, Joel Schrader, James Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Okay.
Fine.
(U)
How are you?
(U)
(U)
Kosovo
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
CONFIDENTIAL
Reason: 1. 5 (d)
Declassify On:i
2/~_,~~~-~~~~,,~~-~~
';:-.
_.
-.
;, ~~I
CONFIDEN'fIAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
'I
you?
The President:
Prime Minister Blair:
--,
,~fi~'~~~;(,
'r~: ,!~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY'
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President:
I agree with that. That is good.
I think we are
doing all right on getting the enabling force together.
I don't
know if Milosevic is playing brinkmanship or not. He seems to
believe he loses Serbia if he lets NATO in there. ke1
Prime Minister Blair:
Yeah.
L l_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - -
IL--_ _ _ ______
The President:
That's right.
(U)
COh'PIDEN'fIAL
The President:
I'm with you.
have no choice.
~
Prime MinioterBlair:
- I . - - I_
The President:
)
_
I agree.
yt)
CGNF I DEN'3?IAL
~)
So Bill, let's
conFIDENTIAL
The P:r:e,sident:
Six months o:r: so ago
when I spoke to you, I was in a big flght with my T:r:easu:r:y guys'
about the need to have leade:r:s get togethe:r: on it and cha:r:t a
cou:r:se whe:r:e we change the o:r:ientation of the IMF a little bit
and get into the necessity fo:r: inte:r:national standa:r:ds fo:r:
banking. We :r:eally a:r:e moving in steps, in increments towa:r:ds a
B:r:etton Woods II arrangement. I think we realized we :r:ushed into
getting money into them without them having the internal
protection'they needed. But a lot of T:r:easu:r:y folks treat this
like Einstein looking for the theory of relativity or biologists
looking for the cure for cancer: when they find it they will
tell us. I felt our Treasury kept resisting a big meeting six
months ago because markets we:r:e so shaky that if we met and did
not come up with an answer it would foster instability. They
don't feel that way anymore.
(Q1
We have to find a wa
thing kicked off.
We do need some
forum in which leaders can clearly articulate where we are, what
we have done, and where we are going.
o 0 peop e are upse
the composltion of
the commlt ee of the 25 nations (G-22) meeting because they are
not a sanctioned IMF type group. Maybe the G-7 cuts a lot of
people out of the loop and a lot of those nations think Europe is
over-represented. I am not hung up on that myself but, we do
need to find a way to have higher visibility to let the world
know we are working toward a more stable position. We ou ht to
tr to resolve this when the G-7 meets in Germany.
.
~
'"~
~
......
CONFIDEHl'IAL
Yes,
I like that.
The President:
I got
track, but we need to
you back after I talk
right frame of mind.
).e1
it.
I'm with you.
I think we are on same
figure out how to keep going.
I may call
to him, but I will try to get him in the
~I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _~/
The President:
I am worried about Russia as well.
have spent some quite intense discussion time on this.
CONFI DNTI}U
1.4(b)(d)i
COpFIDENTIAL
The President
Prime Minister Tony Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
(U)
The President:
I'm fine, I guess.
I just got a bunch of stuff
going on here, but everything is all right. How are you doing?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
I am fine.
you about this damn thing.
Jef
Yes, May 6.
CONFIDENT 13\L
The President:
They are significant.
One of the things I've
tried to do before, and I hope this year will pass, is a new
initiative to get more money through trade and investment.
They're extremely vulnerable to drug lords, and bananas will be
essentially a holding action.
I think that maybe this is
something the European Union and United States can do together
and get them more help down there.
I am worried about both
Caribbean and Central America because of this storm.
(..e)
The President:
I agree with you.
I'm trying to pass a billion
dollar trade initiative and all the right-wing Republicans
bailed out on me yesterday.
They spent all that money, billions
Ir.:E:-:.0;::-".-:1735==2:-::6-,s-ec-'-tl:-'o-n71."':-4(7b7":)(-:7ld)I
COHFIDEN'fIPrL
Minister Blair:
The President:
I got it. Look, basically what is at stake here
is I've had to fight back 80 percent of both parties in Congress
who want to legislate something worse than what I did. The
whole credibility of the WTO is at issue here. But what is
important, in order for me to do anything, is for the WTO to
decide sooner rather than later.
I should have some flexibility
if they decide that it should be X million dollars less. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
That is why it's important not to talk about it.
Because if we do I will have everybody allover me.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
\
The President:
Yes.
(U)
(U)
st.
Patrick's Day
CmJFIDENTIAL
1'----_ _ _--'--_-----'1
The President: Let me ask you this.
Is there some way to
manifest the commitment by something they say to you or me?
Then a week later, some big declaration on decommissioning.
there some way to do it that way? le1
Is
'------~~
The President:
Right now, they're saying trust me.
could make these statements, then dick around. Jk1
But they
The President:
J,R:}
GOHFI DEWl'Ilffi
CGNFIDENnAL
I
The President:
I completely agree. If you have any more
instructions or advice between now and st. Patrick's Day, I'll be glad to have it. But, I got it. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I think we have a chance to get the Kosovars to
all right on the Kosovo agreement. J21
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes.
Really?
(C)
(91
That would be great.
The President: Bob Dole went over there today for me. He's
been a champion of theirs.
I'd say we have a pretty goud
chance.
I'm worried about the possibility of the Kosovars
saying yes, Milosevic saying no, and NATO will blink.
I'm
really worried. We need to suck it up. You and I may have to
do another round of calls. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
stuff,
j)2')
All right.
Thanks a lot.
(U)
The President:
I'll see you.
If you have anything more on the
other issues, let me know, directly or indirectly, through our
channels.
(U)
CONFlDEN'i'IAL
C~FIDEN'fIAL
(U)
Okay, Bill.
Good-bye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
., ..' ..:...!....
lil{l
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASH INGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Tom Crowell, George Chastain,
Robert Ford, Matt Sibley, Lawrence Butler
and Miriam Sapiro
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
The President:
I got back a couple of days ago and then had to
turn around and go to Arkansas. But it was a good trip.
The
thing I found interesting was that despite all the horrible
problems they have had with the hurricane and the legacy of all
of the civil wars, those places are very well governed, with
enormous potential.
They're all very poor, except for Costa
Rica, but they're very well governed. The biggest problem is in
the aftermath of all the civil wars a lot of guns were left
there, something that you know about. There are also a lot of
criminal gangs in the rural areas that make them less than safe
so it is hard to get tourism going there.
In El Salvador there
were former rebels and soldiers in suits listening to my speech.
It was quite nice.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
I thought we could have a quick word on
Northern Ir'eland before they all get there.
(U)
The President:
I agree.
(U)
COUFIDEN'1'IAL
Reason:
1.5(d)
Declassify On: 13/1~{.Ji~~,.;.{,,-~~-~-:--~-----,:\'
CotfPIDEN'fIAL
The President:
First, I completely agree with that. George
Mitchell believes that there can't be very much time between
what Trimble does and the movement on decommissioning. They
need to give some sort of private assurances that they can
pocket. If they can't give i t to Bertie or DeChastelain, to you
or someone.
I am beginning to get a little concerned. )k1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I agree.
I will do whatever I can to help get
this done.
We will just have to see, but I am quite hopeful.
(,e'(
CONFIDEN'I'IAL
The President:
That's fine.
I don't mind.
I am determined not
to let this. get away_
We need this badly, and I would like to
resolve this in the first half of this year, if we can. This
will give us the momentum while all the other things are going
on.
I will do whatever you want me to.
I will do whatever it
takes. )ef
Prime Minister Blair:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
Yes, I told D'Alema you can do whatever you
should. We have never had a problem with the EU having a
different position than the United States. EVen going back
before my presidency, we were sponsors of the resolution leading
to the Oslo accords.
We have to sa those issues will have to
be resolved in the last phase.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
principle.
Exactl.
That is m
osition as a matter of
Yes.
Okay, thanks.
I think you are right where you
The President:
If not, then don't
need to be.
If you think it helps, do it.
do it. ..(-e)
Prime Minister Blair:
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
~----------------------------------~
The President:
The President:
You are going to do something here with the DLC,
aren't you?
(C)
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes, in April.
The President:
Our guys are worried about it raining on NATO's
parade. We got huge press coverage here yesterday. They went
to Harry Truman's home to sign the documents for the NATO event
with Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic. +et
Prime Minister Blair:/
I think so.
ke1
(Q1
The President:
Yes, Hillary and I spent a wonderful week there.
As a matter of fact, it was ten years ago this week.
Y21
I love it. It is one of my favorite
Prime Minister Blair:
cities in the world.
I will think about it and get back to you.
JKJ
CONFIDEN'fIAL
COHPIDEN'PIAL
The President:
If the Kosovars say yes, and they have been
difficult, we may even get Milosevic to the point where he will
say yes -- if we stay tough and if we are prepared to use force.
But if not, he will jerk us around. ).e1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yeah, I will do that. Do you want me to buy a
cashmere sweater from him with duties? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
bananas.
.(.e)
The President:
I wish we could get this resolved before your
elections, you know.
IZ5
Prime Minister Blair:
CONPI DEN'fIAL
(91
The President:
I thought I could have my whole wardrobe of
Scottish cashmere brought down to him.
The Irish wouldn't like
it.
Hell, I think even the Irish sweaters I have are Scotti~h.
Okay, I will see you.
~
COUPI DEWPIAL
(U)
SECR]!;T
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Doug Bayley, Frank Jarosinski,
Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
(U)
I'm fine.
(U)
The President:
(U)
The President:
I'm sorry; I have been through all kinds of hell
with this Kosovo thing. You ought to get a transcript of George
Mitchell's comments to them.
I gave him a Medal of Freedom
here. He said, "I don't want to talk about what I did, but what
needs to be done." He said, "I hope that about a thousand
people will ignore me while I make these remarks to the
parties." It was devastating. He was great.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I did exactly what you asked me to. Hell, I
don't know.
It looks to me like Gerry needs some sort of cover
SECRE'f
Reason:
1.5(d)
Declassify On:
8ECRET
J.Gt
..(-e)
The President:
You have to table some fix for this and let us
pressure Adams to take it.
I don't think there is anything else
we can do. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRE'f
SECRE'I'
Absolutely . .....fBi
The President:
The President:
I agree with that.
I had a meeting with a lot
of members of congress and several Republicans said that it
sounds bad -- if he were out there practicing ethnic cleansing
again we would support it, but if we take the initiative and he
moves against the people it will look like we caused it.
(S)
Sr:CIZEI
3ECRET
I
I
The President:
The reason we did not take any other action is
because the peace process was going on. ~
Prime Minister Blair:/
The President:
......l-51
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I agree with that. Let me ask you this. How
are the Tories reacting at home? Are they supporting you? .-\-B1
,prime Minister Blair:
3ECRE'f'
SECREr
The President: Yes, I will call them when I get off the phone
with you.
I understand they are even chiding us a little bit
about whether we are moving quickly enough.
(S)
The President:
I am still very worried about it. And I am
worried about them because the Duma seems incapable of doing
anything positive to help themselves along.
We could save them
a lot of money if they could ratify START II.
Then I could go
immediately to START III. And then I could pass this bill to
accelerate threat reduction with the nuclear stockpile that
could occupy as many as 20,000 or half the military scientists
over the next two years. But the Duma seems incapable of doing
a lot of this stuff.
I don't think we have any choice
whatsoever. We don't want to polarize them further, but we need
to take some form of action. 121
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
You got it. One thing we have to figure out is
a strategy that will keep the money there that we pump in. All
the money disappeared in 48 hours the last time. ..(..et
Prime Minister Blair:
SEeRE'!'
SECRE'f
The President:
Why don't we plan on talking tomorrow or the
next day and we will work on Kosovo right now.
~
Prime Minister Blair.
Okay, we will be in a position to
discuss it again tomorrow. ~
The President:
Okay man. Sorry I didn't do more on Ireland,
but I tried.
I even got Trimble and Adams to sit in my private
office alone for a while.
JQ1
Prime Minister Blair:
kef
The President:
I think the public vibes were very good indeed,
but I didn't have the feeling that I helped you move the ball
forward on the substance of it. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)!
________________________________------------~
The President:
I don't think Gerry wants it to get off the
tracks and that is heartening.
I know damn well Trimble does
not, but he wants his leadership position as well.
(e)
~
'-------~/
The President:
If you could have a referendum on this, the
people could come up with 15 permutations. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I
IE-O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
The President:
That's another thing I thought about.
I think
the IRA people with personal history have a lot more ideology on
this whole decommissioning issue than the facts warrant. They
seem to think that if they unilaterally do this, it is like
saying that what the struggle is all about and what they said
all those years is illegitimate. They are loading a lot of crap
that does not need to be loaded. The only way to get off the
psychological hook is to make it part of a bigger disarmament or
find some proposal people could ratify and let their reps off
the hook.
The atmospherics seem great, but I didn't have any
specifics that I could glean.
I don't see Trimble having a
viable option.
I did not mean to be so negative but I don't
SECRE'F
3ECREl'
think Sinn Fein thinks they can say different words and make it
happen. I don't think words alone will do it.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
(U)
The President:
I agree. If there is a problem with Chirac or
Schroeder I will have to call you back.
(C)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I am here.
Bye, Tony.
(U)
(U)
-- End of Conversation
TH E WH ITE HOUSE:
WASH INGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Miles Murphy,
Ralph Sigler and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
I'm fine.
I'm in Berlin.
(U)
The President:
I know, Gerhard just told me you were there.
Holbrooke is on his way back. Milosevic stiffed him. He
wouldn't agree to a cease-fire. He was belligerent and it seems
to me he's strongly poised to unleash reater violence in
Kosovo.
SECl":t!:T
Reason:
1.5(a,b,d)
Declassify On:
3/23/0_9~,c~~,~ __~---~(
r"...A,?.::-.----,"~- .. ~;::--,:.
,'
'~:r~~LffiRA~~ PtlO:OCOPy__
,""
SECRE'P
The President:
The President: \
The President:
Yes, we sat around the room today saying, "Geez,
this is re~11y bad. We could lose what we did in Bosnia but we
have no option." If we don't, he will just clean them out, kill
a bunch of people and do bad things.
SECRE'f
SECRET
L-~IE=.=O=.1=3=52=6=,s=e=ct=io=n=1.=4(=b=)(::::d)::!....I_...J1 ~
( C)
~resident:
The President:
Our media
The President:
I
Prime Minister Blair:
I "0.13526,
""'0" 1.4(d)
SECRET
SECRf:T
The President:
fer
The President:
There have never been any natural boundaries.
couldn't agree more. ~
The President:
Great, if you want to call me any time of the
day or night, call me.
I don't expect to sleep much tonight.
(C)
The President: Yeah. They have better air defenses and we have
people in the vicinity that are vulnerable. The stakes are high
but the potential benefits are enormous. jQ1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I hope Milosevic can find a way out. He
compares it to the Ottoman Empire and how they stopped them In
Bosnia, and now he stands up to the Empire of the West.
It is
crazy.
()21
Prime Minister Blair:
L -_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _- - - - The President:
Okay.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
SECRE'f
(U)
SECRE'f
.'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy,
Jenny McGee, Jim Smith and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi Bill.
Hey Tony.
(U)
(U)
yzi
(U)
Pretty much.
The President:
I think your statements have been
seem to have a real consensus.
reat.
We
Reason:
1 . 5 ( a, b, d)-
Declaosify On"
4/~~::::~CPHO:OCOPY
fC)
SECR!!:!
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
The President:
The President:
Where? -+T
ye)
---:----~
The President:
Can you have your people send the names to our
people so we know who they are? I want to stage a meeting here
to give them some American publicity. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
SECRE'P
-+er~
SECRE'!'
The President:
Why?
The President:
The President:
-teT
Prime Minister Blair:
'--------_--..1
The President:
3ECRE'!'
gECRE'f
The President:
-+e-r
I
~
\~--------------------~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
(91
The President:
there? ..ke7
ye1
What
OK, I'll
~--------------~
The President: All he ever wanted was an aggravated bonfire.
To all of us linear thinkers it doesn't seem like much of a big
deal. -+er
Prime Minister Blair:
EGRET
, \\
SECRE't'
, iE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) i
The President:
.(e)
The President:
The President:
Okay, I will follow up and give you a
have to call you tomorrow anyway.
Thanks, Tony. )K1
Okay, thank you.
(U)
End of Conversation --
SECRET
~:"~_~~::'--~_ -~O~~--~--~:~\
';<~~~~~,LIB~YPHOTOCO,PY,_J
-..:.....,-.-.~-z~<...--,- "-.-,:,"_-:-":0>- .,-;-.:,.,._J._-t...r.'-"-_......:o_~.:-. __ ._,~ .,
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1':1
report~
GONFIDEHTIAJ:j
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Prime Minister Ahern
Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Miles Murphy,
Matt Sibley, Bob Ford and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Reason: 1.5(d
Declassify On
COUFIDEN1'IAL
The President:
It's naIve for them to beiieve you can have a
break or a pause or wait for Easter without this thing getting
out. It's not possible.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Tony, what are you going to do the rest of the
day?
Are you going to bed?
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
,-
'CO~IFIDEN'fViL
The President:
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
cmlFI DEN'fIAL
3EeRE'!'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy,
Jenny McGee and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Yes, hi Bill.
(U)
(U)
No.
(U)
IL____~I=E=.O==.1=3=5=26=,=se=c=ti=on==1.=4=(d=)=_________~1(C)
The President:
Reason: 1.5(a.b,d)
Declassify On
4~~_~--' ~_O' ~,
Prime
Blair:
~--------------------~
The
the
hit
hit
our
President: The press today has got this big article saying
CIA tried to tell us he would accelerate his attacks if we
him. Hell, we knew that but that's an argument for having
him 30 -day s earlier. I t;::.-,-,h""i~n,""k,--"w:..;:e=-'-,r"-,e",--"-",o~n",n",a,--,h.:.:a=-v"-e",--",t""o---->t,-,,a,-,l,-,k-,--,,,",,,-_--,
allies on where we are.
The President: Are you having to run all these targets by your
Attorney General? k8f
Prime Minister Blair:
'-------------)
The President: Holbrooke believes strongly we should be hitting
the media, power grids, and oil stuff with little collateral
damage. Shutting down the TV networks will have an impact.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
SECREl'
The President:
The refineries. I approved all that stuff.
There is some chance of collateral damage, but it seems to me
really.remote. }81
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Well.
SECRET
(U)
I'm around anytime you want, Bill.
Thanks, Tony.
(U)
(U)
3ECRE'
Alright.
(U)
SECRET
(U)
ECRE'l'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Bob Ford, Sean Tarver, James
Smith and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
How are you doing?
Did you
The President:
I hope I did help and Sinn Fein will start
negotiations.
The initial spin on it was okay. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
It looks like we got permission tonight from all
the NATO guys to do most of what we wanted to do, but I wanted
to say that I think we need better procedures here.
They tell
me Wes Clark is spending half or more than half his time every
day trying to schmooze the Allies. There should be'a mor
orderly way to pick the targets and vet them.
1.5(a.b,~l
, " ..
Declassify On:!
' .
<
<
4/~
. ~ .. ,..-~q-:,--~-
. ' .''','
,~";.' . ' 1m-ON
LLBRARY
PHOTOCOPY
i,
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':.,
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.,' j.
<
and
--"--'-'L--=-';;'
No.
j81
My God.
}21
The President:
That's why we keep this close.
I am not
accusing anybody, these are just the facts.
But the more people
that know, you increase exponentially the potential for leaks or
intercepted conversations, anything of that kind. So we need to
try to keep this closehold.
(5)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
SECRET
3ECRE'f'
The President:
I will have Sandy follow up with your guys and
we will figure out who contacts whom. We'll talk to Solana and
get a newprocedure approved. We need to approve targets
quickly and hit them. We need to be relaxed about this,
determined but relaxed. We're not in a panic.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
If it looks like we're afraid someone is going
to wimp out on us, we would never get a decent deal.
~
Prime-Minigter Blair:
The President:
We've unsettled him some. We've had some
substantial strikes. We're not where we need to be yet, but we
need to keep after it.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes. And it would be very well received here;
we cannot act like we're bombing timidly and making a plea for
peace.
That's not a position we can afford to be in. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
That we have to hit them harder.
In fact, a
couple of senators have come out in favor of ground troops.
Though that could be a Trojan Horse. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
We'll have our people come up with a strategy
for who you and I should call.
I will call Schroeder to see if
he will agree to a new procedure on target setting.
This is too
slow; we are encumbered by weather now, but as a practical
measure you will have more influence with Europeans than I will.
We can't afford to have Clark spending half his day, every day
trying to get approval to do his job rather than doing his job.
DEeRE'!'
SE'CRE'F
The President:
I agree.
The President:
Alright.
Thanks.
121
I
I
~-------------------~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I am happy to do it.
It's lasted so long that I
yz)
may miss it when it's gone. But I doubt it.
Prime Minister Blair:/
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
agCRET
E:CRE'f
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
(U)
The President:
(U)
I'm okay. \
The President:
Reason:
1.5(a,b,d)
Declassify On:! 4/91J),>,,-_~,;.;:"--'~-- ~ ...
__
-.
. . . . .---'--'--:..~ _ _ -7-'".~_
'.'- - -~I
SECRET
Presentationally,
I agree absolutely.
SECRE'f
The President:
I agree. You can be sure all these offers he
makes will not meet that standard. More and more of the
Europeans are of the mind that we may have some definitional
problems down the road.
I'd like to talk about two things that
are related.
One is the refugee issue.
It seems to me we are
doing a little bit better, with NATO taking the lead organizing
with Macedonia and Albania. But we have got to do more and
quickly in finding places to resettle them and the conditions of
their return.
Different countries have different conditions,
camps. J.&r
I don't know, but I know we have to create a release valve to
take the pressure off Albania and Macedonia.
SECRE'f
3ECRE'f
The President:
This is an open line; we have to be careful what
we say. You and I have discussed this before. _ ()
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I agree with that. The problem we are having
here is whether we're taking people in Guantamano or the
continental United States, then they like it and say they don't
SECRE'l'
SECRE'l'
The President:
I agree with that.
I wonder if our public
affairs people should talk specifically to each other.
ke1
Prime Minister Blair.:
The President:
Let's see if we can get this organized.
would make a huge difference. ~
It
L - - - -_
The President:
Let's have our own media people talking. We can
offer to have all 19 join the conference call.
If not, we ought
to have the major countries agreed.
Prime Minister Blair:
The president:
5ECRE1'
Je1
'r--------------------------------------------
)91
SgCRgT
The President:
I do, too, but we have a ways to go.
People can
say to us you don't have a clear strategy, but we have had clear
goals, but you have got to have the proper mix of long-term
goals and enough flexibility to deal with day-to-day realities.
Getting our presentation a little better has helped some, with the clearing of the weather, the targeting process being worked
out.
I thought your memo was terrific, by the way. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
-+BY
Prime Minister Blair:
Okay, Bill.
The President:
Goodbye.
Okay.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRE'
SECRET
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Matthew Sibley,
Robert Ford, Robin Rickard, Lawrence Butler
and K. C. Brown
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Tony?
(U)
Hi Bill.
(U)
(U)
Good.
I am
(U)
SECRET
Reason: 1.S(a,b,d)
.
Declassify On:
4/12~_ =,;,r'-~"----'-'-=-~~"\!-:
.
,
~:~~~_~IBRA~YPHOTOC~~~;_J .. :
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SECREr
(U)
(U)
The President:
That's right. The EU is wrong on the trade
issue but right on the general concern for the Caribbean. The
EU is in the right on the larger economic well being, on the
longer-term interests of the Caribbean. lef
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRET
SEeRE'!'
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
In Central America they are all concerned, I
was just down there and talked to all these guys. They are
sensitive because of the hurricane. What few bananas they have,
they want to sell.
I told them we will help them get through
this, but that we would have to diversify their economies too .
.J.Zi
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The Central Americans. and the Caribbeans sound
like a boys school argument. They ought to be thinking about
making common cause and not pissing down each others' leg to see
who has the biggest bananas. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
____________~1
The President:
OK, on Kosovo, just want to check in and
reconnoiter where we are. We had greater military impact with
the air actions.
I think if we could do a couple more weeks I
think that we could really have it. The G-8 statement is good.
Have you received the report on the G-8 ministers? We are
hoping to get a statement here involving the Russians.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
Ll_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __
The President:
That was good. Madeleine is going to see Ivanov
on Tuesday or Wednesday.
I also think that Kofi gave a good
statement.
k81
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRET
and respond to it. Any time that I try to get our banks to do
something the Treasury Department gets squirrelly on me.
It is
always a fight with those guys.
I would like to send you this
list and let you evaluate it. ~
We have to decide whether we want to have a more aggressive
diplomatic initiative and if so, how to intensify the military
action to enhance the likelihood that diplomatic efforts will
succeed, assuming we can achieve all our ob'ectives that Kofi
signed off on and bring Russia into it.
J.8J
I don't want to take too much time going over this now but this
is a big problem for us. We went through this in Somalia when
the UN took over command and control. We had a messy deal
during the first part of the Administration. We stayed on in
Somalia when the UN took it over and it was a messy deal.
I
lost some American boys over there and one of them was dragged
naked through the streets of Mogadishu. We made some mistakes
there in what we did and did not do. We basically had serious
command and control problems where the Americans were supposed
to do two things -- the same things we'd have to do if it were a
non-NATO force in Kosovo -- in Somalia we were supposed to be
there doing humanitarian relief and act as a mUltinational peace
force.
One of the factional leaders who since has died, killed
a bunch of Pakistani peacekeepers -- something like 15-20. We
were the only presence there that had the capabilities to figure
out who did it and to go and get him. So the UN wanted us and
tasked us to go and get him, Aideed. The UN tasked us to do
that while doing humanitarian relief. They tasked our guys to
go'into a hotel and get him. Our guys landed on the top of a
hotel in the middle of the day -- he got away and then all of a
SECRS'!'
GECRE'P
The President:
This was the lowest point of my presidency.
It
was a goddamned nightmare.
I felt personally responsible for
that kid's body being dragged through the streets. So I see
this as a practical measure about k2.eping people alive. We were
prepared to take risks. We had all these glitches because of
the command and control problems. The Russians are allergic to
NATO and Milosevic is allergic to NATO. Keep in mind Tony, I
know you know this, if we go in, we can't go in with one foot.
If we get a multi-national force we have to go in at least with
the commitment to protect the Serbs in Kosovo at a minimum as
well as the Kosovar Albanians. There is enormous grass roots
support right now for the freedom fighters.
This will be a big
force protection issue -- command and control will be critical
with huge political implications. We may have all kinds of
problems where we have both sides pissed at us.
They will be
politically important as well in any country.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
,i
SECRE'l'
The President:
It is horrible.
The President:
We need to talk on a secure line or talk when
you get here.
There are arguments both for it and arguments
against it.
We will need to look at in the context of where it
is going to be five years from now. We need to keep our crowd
together and keep at him and get a diplomatic solution with a
mechanism that includes the UN and Russia.
I will follow up on
this.
I am in the country all next week and will get that
economic list out to you. Tell Jose Maria I said hello. Did
you show him Napoleon's pistol and Charles' sword? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I took him to Rothschild House today to
see the most amazing works of art.
(U)
The President:
(U)
(U)
The President:
I will come back to t'he Scottish golf course.
You were the best first-timer that I ever saw play.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
keep in touch.
(U)
The President:
(U)
Right, good-bye.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
SECRE'E'
Let's
ECREf
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
(U)
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, Roger Merletti,
Frank Jarosinski, James Smith,
Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME:
The President:
Hello, Tony.
(U)
Hi, Bill .
.JRl"
The President:
Yes.
First of all, I didn't mean to take you
out of a meeting there, but I thought it was important I talk to
you as soon as possible. Aznar was here last night and he was
really good, and I know he is there.
181
Wes Clark asked for another 300 airplanes, and we've got these
Apaches corning in, but the truth is we're just going to have
more and more planes filling the air and restriking old targets
or hoping the weather gets better so we can hit tanks and
soldiers, unless we can get into Phase III targets. We have got
to make these people start paying a higher price. ~
~
was hoping while you're there, you and Aznar could convince
range of targets.
That would require hitting national level
headquarters, military-industrial targets, the TV towers (which
he has resisted), some of the presidential targets, the power
plants, the Socialist Party headquarters, which also has a
radio-TV broadcasting facility there.
I really believe we are
making a mistake not .turning the heat up on these guys. )-21
SEeR]!!'f
Reason:
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SECRE'f
The President:
SECRE'f'
SECRET
The President:
I completely agree.
(U)
SECREr
The President:
Let's talk about all the points you've made.
First of all, we're agreed on targets.
On fuel and other
things, we are now banning Yugoslav ships from our ports and the
export and reexport of goods to Yugoslavia.
I hope you can
succeed in tightening EU exports, freezing government and
private projects and the assets of the leadership. You and I
should propose NATO search ships going into Yugoslav ports to
make sure there's no arms or fuel. 121
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Agreed.
(U)
Je1
Prime Minister Blair:
'-------~
The President:
Do you want to send someone in? I think there
would be some resentment if I sent an American over there.
Maybe we should talk to Solana and have him ask for more help on
presentation? Do you have someone you can deputize? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
ECRET
3ECRE't'
The
him
The President:
I would support that strongly, and then he could
do the conference call every day, your guy.
keJ
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Okay.
I am completely agreed.
Should we call
Solana separately or together. Separately.
I will tell him we
discussed this, I think your take is right and ask him to work
with you on it. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
(U)
ou back.
The President:
That's why I agreed to do this. With all the
problems, I figured you wouldn't have 19 elected officials with
their asses hanging out to dry. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
\L-_ _ _ _ _~~
SECRE'f
The President:
(U)
Alright, Bill.
(U)
.Aef
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Absolutely.
Alright.
-- End of Conversation --
3ECRE'l'
SEGREg:'
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PARTICIPANTS:
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Prime Minister Blair
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Okay.
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The President:
Good.
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Goodbye.
(U)
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-- End of Conversation --
SECRET
\~~
__~~~~~~~~~__~~~~r-I-t
Absolutely right.
The President:
That's what I said yesterday.
I was very strong
with the newspaper editors -- you know I completely agree with
you. We're on the same page. We'll get the briefing sorted out
there.
Good.
(U)
Yes, I think.
(U)
The President:
Do you want to spend the night at the White
House? Or at Blair House, if you want.
I won't get in until 1
a.m., and you may want to be in bed by then, but it's your
option. You can sleep in the same bed Churchill did. +&T
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
CONFIDEN'fLAL
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
)Q1
The President:
That's a very good idea. When you come here,
I'd like to develop a strategy on how to work with the others,
including some of the smaller countries.
I think a little
effort on the side could get us a strong voice in making those
folks feel included. Between the two of
I think we can
touch most people . . ,.all of that ... I
E.O. 13526, section l.4(d)
The President:
The President:
That is what I think.
In Detroit, we had 40,000
Albanians and a whole bunch of Serbs. The Albanians were
outside demonstrating, and I said we have no fight with the
Serbian people; they were our allies in World War II and most
don't have a clue what Milosevic has done in their name in
Kosovo.
I said that was the proper way to express disagreement,
not by killing. We have to be upbeat and resolute.
It is
important to be determined, but not too damned grim, either. We
have to keep spirits up. We're in this world where people
expect instantaneous results. We need to act like this started
the day before yesterday and not twenty years ago. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
If you want me to do any more, like talking to
I thought it would be less
Solana or Wes Clark, let me know.
abrasive to everybody if I didn't lead the charge, and it seems
to have worked out well; but I'll be happy to follow up. +eY
COlQ'FIDEH'I'IAL
COlH'IDEM'fIAL
The President:
I'm sure that's right. There's no reason to
believe these people are trained to deal with this situation.
J..0"
Prime Minister Blair: That's totally right.
This is a
situation they haven't dealt with before. ~
The President:
We will plan on being together on Thursday.
You
decide whether Blair House is more convenient.
It probably will
be fQr your retinue, but you can stay here and put another aide
upstairs if you want.
~
Prime Minister Blair: That is really kind, Bill.
I will get
this note to you on secure fax, and probably we should have a
word over the weekend on the secure phone. ~
The President: Alright, we'll do that.
I understand we made a
little progress on those operational changes you and I wanted
and I am a little encouraged by that.
k8t
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I think if we really work we can
unblock any obstacles there. We still know where the difficult
points are. ~
The President: We're finally getting some indication they're
feeling it and there's a lot of internal debate within the high
councils. That is important and we need to bear down.
I will
get your fax, and we will talk over the weekend. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Goodbye.
IU)
IU)
End of Conversation
COHFIDEN'PH'W
SECRE'F
...
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Doug Bayley, Miles Murphy,
James Smith, Lawrence Butler and K. C. Brown
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
(U)
The President:
Great.
I thought your trip went very well, and
everyone loved the DLC event we did later.
So I think your trip
went great.
I called to follow up a little bit on the memo you
gave me and what we're doing here.
Let me make three or four
points to respond to your memo and tell you what we are doing,
then we can talk about whatever else we need to. ~
First, on your statement I
I E.O.13526, section 1.4(d) I
We've got a small group working to develop an integrated
strategic plan that will merge our military and strategic
objectives and focus on putting pressure on Milosevic,' his
cronies, integrating military targets, covert action,
psychological operations and public affairs. And it is my
understanding we're already in touch with you. We'll have a
detailed plan ready sometime this weekend and share it with your
people. We will coordinate two to three times a week in a
telephone conference with people in a group led by John Sawers
and Sandy Berger.
So, we'll deal with that issue.
J81
SECRET
Reason:
1.5 (a, b, d)
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affairs thing is in much better shape now; the war room you and
I set up has a 24-hour capability and a rapid-response element,
and I think Joe and Alistair are talking two or three times a
day, including~ith the people in Brussels.
I think that's good
and we're trying to bring in the guy who used to work as my
communications director to work our operation here for 30 days
to make sure we've melded our political and diplomatic efforts
together. On all those areas, we're doing pretty well. JBf
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
The last item you raised is the need to do joint
planning on the ground force option.
I personally believe it
can be done under the umbrella of the assessment. As I told
you, we're working with our guys; they're so afraid it will
leak. We have to work through it, because there's no point in
doing this in detail unless we know how it will mesh together.
I will keep working on that, but I think we've made reasonable
progress on what we discussed and I wanted to see where you are
on that.
.k51
SECRET
vn
The second thing -- and Sandy raised the red flag on this -- I
asked him to make it clear to Chernomyrdin that having Russians
and Greeks, Ukrainians, or other Orthodox denominations could
not become a de facto partition, because the EU has taken a
strong position on this, as has the United States and as has
NATO. As long as there's no partition, I think we could work
that out. Basically, that's a read-out of what D'Alema said.
ft}
Prime Minister Blair: Right. That is very helpful, Bill.
First, I think on the bit with the press side, and NATO and
SHAPE working together, we have a lot of people working well
with your people. That is working better and will get better
still. On the military side, I think that is great, to help
SACEUR with what he is doing. On the video conferencing, I
think that's fine.
The thing to do is have a constant updating
of all the different issues so they know exactly where we are,
feeding through the information we are getting to your guys, and
vice versa. ~
The President:
I agree.
j,21
SECRE'f
The President:
Yes.
SECRE'f
SECRET
;zl
....
One thing you need to have your best Russia people dealing with:
if it comes to a troop option, what the hell are we going to do
with Russia if it leads to the collapse of our relationship.
The President:
are you? .ke7
Where
The President:
Do you think the IRA has decided they are never
going to decommission? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
SECI<ET
3ECRE'f
'--,::_-,-;::;--;-,--_ _ _....11
The President:
...+GY
The President:
Great.
I go to Germany next week.
Germany is
the one country where we have people flying and doing
humanitarian operations and there are refugees, and Schroeder
has the EU Presidency. My guys asked me not to go down to
Aviano because it,would be too disruptive, so I'll honor that.
J,Z)
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes, I think Germany is just the right
place to go next week.
If you give a message of public support,
it will be very important.
J21
The President:
Yes,
He's been good to stay with us.
There's a
big article in the paper today, "Germans Seek to Separate Serb
Leader From support." It's in The New York Times.
I can't
tell, but it looks like they're trying to set him up for war
crimes.
I want to talk to Gerhard about it.
I'll have somebody
fax that to you.
k&t
Prime Minister Blair:
Okay.
Just before we go.
our people should think about. I
Three things
1
gCRET
SECRE'f'
The President:
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRET
(U)
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Prime Minister Blair
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Hello, Tony.
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Hi, Bill.
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I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
force.
We sald he has to
commit to get all his forces out, then we can talk about a
presence symbo}ic of Serbian sovereignty. )21
I
The only other thing is, the G8 political directors yesterday
was pretty good, except they talked about an international
authorized by the UN.
u
e1ne 1S trY1ng to have it redrafted to avoid
any 1mp 1cation that we're undermining the common requirements
of NATO. That is kind of where the diplomacy is. Sandy and the
rest of the Foreign Policy Team will review this 30-day
strategic campaign plan -- and I got your message the other day
-- and we'll share it with you. And we're making the
arrangements for the secure video teleconferencing between our
teams. So, we're kind of rocking along here. But I'm concerned
with Milosevi9's peace initiative and his release of the POWs
and the collateral damage, which is getting publicity. I'm
worried about Allied unity. I feel good about continuing this
for months, if necessary, but we've got to keep everybody else
in harness. Milosevic is in more trouble than we think, or he
wouldn't be going to all this trouble to stop the bombing.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
SECRET
Yes.
+SJ
3ECRE'l'
The President:
+Bt
I I thlnk It's necessary to have constantly -~a~n~d"I~am~-tr=r~y7l~n~g~t~o get it sorted at this end -- people who go up
and talk to those refugees -- everyone has a horror story to
tell.
The most horrible things have been going on in there.
I
don't know whether public opinion in other countries is
different -- ours is pretty solid -- but most people, if they
think the campaign is beginning to work, will hold with it.
k5i
SEC'tl::E'f
;-
SECRE'f
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
J2f
The President:
I think we should stick where we are.
The
Europeans feel strongly about it.
I don't feel strongly, I
could go either way, but I have been publicly strong about
leaving it in the country, because I don't want to be accused of
having a campaign for a greater Albania and disrupt the frontline states.
I think we ought to hang in there. The rest of
the EU have been pretty adamant against independence and we
ought to hang in there with them on that. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
True. \
The President:
First of all, I strongly agree with that, and we
hammered Chernomyrdin on that. Let me tell you how I look at
this; I think it might also be helpful on the presentational
aspect in Europe.
I rarely talk about Kosovo now that I don't
talk about Bosnia.
It took us almost four years to get that
together and get Dayton. We defeated ethnic cleansing, but we
did not reverse it, because so many refugees were not going
home. The Kosovars have to be able to go home. We not only
have to defeat. it, we have to reverse it. When I remind people
of our work in Bosnia, I think it reinforces it.
I've got a
full-time person now doing nothing but Kosovo public affairs and
getting these stories out. What I think we need to look at is,
either we should have some more of those people -- should we put
more people on it? It's delicate; it's in other countries where
this problem exits.
I don't want to mess on people's turf.
Maybe talk to D'Alema and others about it.
It would help if
there were more of these people in the Italian press and other
3Ee~ET
SECRET
lng
SECRE'P
3ECRET
Prime Minister-Blair:
The president:
These numbers
"J
Kosovo 1S about
that is, it's
it's not unimaginably large. ,-----.
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The President:
:3EGRET
It would be a
L -_ _ _ _ _ _
The President:
I agree.
xei
The President:
Yes.
.J.G-'J
Prime Minister Blair: Her presence and the pictures that will
come out of that -- all the time, we've got to repersuade
people, remind them, really. You know the public attention
span. We had a terrible nail bomb thing going off in London
ut for four ays,
Kosovo ceased to be in people's minds. We have to persuade them
about it. Littleton happened and obviously the whole of America
s tar t s to ref 0 cus .
.4-Gt"
=--:::------:---------.1
~.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
rl
Alright, my friend.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation.
SECRB'P
Speak to
WASHINGTON'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Joel Schrader, Jenny McGee,
Miles Murphy and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Yes.
(U)
...(-e}
J.Q-'r
Reason:
1. 5 Ca, b, dL ' .
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SECRET
No doubt, Bill.
The President:
I am with you.
SECRET
,
"
SECRET
The President:
That is right.
They asked, 'What about the
Russians and Chinese saying this was barbaric?#
I said it was
not barbaric but a tragedy.
We ought to take that word and turn
it on them. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Let me ask a couple of questions.
In Germany, I
did what you suggested.
I did an hour interview with the press
people from Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Macedonia and
Albania. Did it get press coverage? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
-t-etThe President:
I think we all need to do more of that, reaching
into other countries.
One other thing, when I was there, I did
a lot of spade work with our people working on humanitarian
stuff about Macedonia, with the view as quickly as possible of
turning Maedonia into a way-station and you know telling them we
would move all of the refugees through there.
We would need to
get Turkey to~gree to take about 100,000, get safe passage for
them to Turkey.
I believe we have enough money to do this.
If
my supplemental passes the Senate this coming week, and I think
it will, what we would like to do is go to Turkey, with whatever
help we get from Europe, and build these camps.
We could build
camps for 20,000 which are quite comfortable with public space,
schools. They are tents, but nice tents. Also, if worse comes
to worse, they can be winterized with wooden floors and heaters.
They would be quite adequate.
Obviously, it would be better to
get them to Turkey anyway because the climate is better. )1
SECRE'l.'
f.
SECRE'f
necessary, we
from the EU.
Santer in the next
The President:
too.
If
8ECRET
Albania.
The President:
Does -it? .~
(S)
The President:
US)
Prime Minister Blair: I still think that in the end, the public
understands t~at in war these things happen. We have this
operation in NATO and SHAPE workin better now.
ECRE'f
Yes.
SECREt
.(.e)
13gCRE'J:'
The President:
I'll keep working on all of this and if I need
to call you again I will.
yn
Prime Minister"'Blair:
The President:
Okay Bill.
Thank you.
(U)
(U)
-- End of Conversation
SECRE'f
SECRE'F
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, Joel Schrader,
Miles Murphy, Sean Tarver, Roger Merletti,
James Smith and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
I am fine.
So.
(U)
(U)
What's happening?
(U)
I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
JQ1
2
we're right to be stepping up the pressure.
%
The President:
This planning process has got to proceed,
because we only have a few days before deciding what else to do
but I think 45,000 troops for KFOR is quite good. The more
people we have deployed in the area, the more quickly we can
move.
I agree entirely with you; we obviously can't afford to
lose and have to keep doing everything necessary to make him
think that we're ready to intervene and no matter what we can't
afford ,to lose. But the combination of the impact of last
week's strikes and the fact that the NAC has voted to let NATO
increase the number of targets that will be hit and the nature
of them and the buildup will give us maximum pressure.
I agree
with you, I don't care what happens to him, whether he stays
there or goes someplace as you've said, like Belarus, it's all
right with me if we get our objectives met. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
The President:
wouldn't do that.
I think he would.
J&r
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, he has and I think they will come
along with us.
The problem is, until you see a real plan,
3ECRE'f
SECRET
yr
The President:
The military consensus is 175,000 to 200,000
troops, at least that's what our people say, so we could
probably do it with less. But one thing we've found out is the
more we send in, the fewer will die. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Absolutely.
i81
The Fresident:
So the more unattractive we make it, the safer
it is for everyone. ~
Prime Minister Blair: /
The President:
The President:
J21
SECRE'f
.3ECRE'f
away and
walk
V1
As I say, you
Just this
SECRET
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The President:
:;,gCRE'f
(U)
(U)
SECRE'f
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Doug Bayley, George Chastain,
Frank Jarosinski, Miles Murphy, Don Cheramie
and Lawrence Butler
June 3, 1999, 6:42 - 6:57 p.m. EDT
Oval Office
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hi, Tony.
(U)
The President:
Yes, I hope it will.
best answer.
(U)
(U)
The President:
I agree.
Academy speech. +eI
SECRE'f
Reason:
1.5 (a;b, d ) .
.
.~~~ __'_-~'?-."'
Declassify on:! 61!::~r "'J':-,.;.r~ - - - ,
Ii
!".
1-
3EeRE~
Sure.
(U)
The President:
Just tell them they can dance around a Maypole - you'll hold it up for them while they dance. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
should only rejoice when
We
SECRET
3ECRE'f
Yes.
Un
I don't like that very much.
+et
Okay, Bill.
The President:
Okay.
Right.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRET
(U)
8ECRE'f
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Pr.ime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Bonnie Glick, Michael Manning,
Miles Murphy and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hi, Tony.
(U)
The President:
This is exactly what I was afraid of. A bombing
pause and then they would try to steal the peace now that we
have won the war. The position is that the Russians and Chinese
won't let a Security Council Resolution go through until there
is a bombing pause, but we won't pause unless there is clear
evidence of withdrawal.
Funny, but I understand the Serb
position; they don't want a vacuum so when their withdrawal
starts, they want us to come in. Yesterday, our guys said ~you
begin withdrawal, we will pause and try for one day to get a
Security Council Resolution.
If the Chinese and Russians won't,
we'll get a NATO accord and move in immediately." .k81
That was our position yesterday. Today, the Serbs came back and
said they couldn't live with this.
They want a Security Council
Resolution that links the authority to deploy and the authority
to run the country under the UN; if there is a delay, we'll
return to our pre-conflict force levels before we invaded until
the Security Council works it out. That's a nightmare and we
can't let that happen.
They're trying to steal the peace after
we won the conflict.
I know you agree with that.
I am going to
3ECRE':P
Reason:
1.S(a,b,d)
Declassify On:
6();'{9!!.fl~:-:----~----- -------~-,<, .
SECRET
call D'Alema.
I don't know what to do except tell our guys to
hang tough. Ahtisaari delayed his China trip.
I)t)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
J31
yi)
I
The President:
+&r
The President:
and
I
The President:
Yes.
)Sf
SECRET
The President:
I agree.
nervous as hell all da .
from us.
I agree.
The President:
I'll tell you what I'll do.
I'll call Sandy now
and talk to our guys and then I'll try to call D'Alema, and
decide who else I should call.
If there is any other problem,
I'll be available.
It's sunny here.
I may go out, but I'll
have phones with me. ~
SECREg:}
SECRE~
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
"'~""'--~~------.-
--- ----
- -
~ ........ !
SECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
WAS H 11\1 (:iTO 1\1
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Tony C~mpanella, Michael
Manning, Robin Rickard, Roger Merletti
and Lawrence Butler
June 7, 1999, 9:55 - 10:06 a.m. EDT
Oval Office
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Yep.
Hi Bill.
(U)
The talks broke off.
Do you see
what I mean?
k81
The President:
Yes.
The President:
Yes.
I completely agree with everything you've
said.
The key here is where the Russians are on this.
We
I am completely in
8ECRE'P
The President:
Yep. We are in the same place Tony, and we've
got to tough it out and get a good UN draft. Ma be I am
sensitive, but let me say something.
OK?
Prime Minister Blair:
)-51
OK Bill. /
I
The President:
with you.
?l
The President:
I agree to that.
hold to it? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
morning.
aECRET
Yes.
If anything
Thank you.
OK.
(U)
Alright.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
SEeRE,],
f'~"'"
-'~'---" v
.
. I'
'!~\,ti-"tQ~ LiBRARY PHOTOCOPyt
c"
"cc
Thank you.
SECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
The President:
Hey, I just called to say thanks, it's been a
good run.
Life's greatest curse is the answer to our prayers;
now we have to figure out how to get all those people back in,
without getting blown up by all those landmines.
I had Elie
Wiesel here -- do you know him?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
(U)
The President:
He's a Holocaust survivor, and an advisor.
I
sent him to some of the camps, and he said, ~boy, there is so
much anger there.
Every Kosovar believes he knows the Serb who
ousted him."
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes, it's going to be tough, isn't it?
tell you what, it could be a lot worse.
(U)
The President:
(U)
SECRET
SECRET
(U)
[Laughs]
The President:
We're trying to think through the
obvious questions, about how fast we can get people back in and
clear out the landmines, and we need to flush out Macedonia
first. -1-e:I
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The President:
I am, too.
There are not a lot of places he can
go, given his indictment by the war crimes tribunal. Maybe
Russia or Belarus would take him, or maybe he'd get a Pinochet
deal and leave him in Serbia. ~
Prime Minister Blair: /
/~--------~-------------------~==~~~~I
IE.O.13526, section 1.4(b)(d~
L -_ _ _ _ _.
The President:
Yeah, we can't do that.
We need to look at
basic humanitarian conditions, and make sure the lights are on
by winter,/
SECRE'P
.~
SECRET
'----------~/
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)
I
The President: The commander of the overall military is going
to be British, isn't h.e? I think he's good. I haven't met him,
but I've seen him on TV. -+er
Prime Minister Blair:
2ECRET
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
SECRET
The President:
Yeah, when we come to Cologne, we should have
major questions to answer as a body. We need to boost Yeltsin
and his pro-reform forces.
I wish we could resuscitate
Chernomyrdin, and I realize this may be more water than we can
carry.
J,.e1
I'd like to have him and Ahtisaari there to receive our thanks.
We may want to think about this.
They did a hell of a job for
us.
I think we also ought to think about some other things at
Cologne. We need to have good positions coming out of Cologne
for debt relief, and because of compound interest and falling
incomes, I think it will be a big deal there. We also need to
do more on the AIDS issue. According to our people, one percent
of the people in the world have AIDS.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
In Africa the numbers are staggering, and
in a country like South Africa it's just massive.
(ei
The President: And you've got 60 million people more or less,
and 35 million in Africa, and the number is going to double in
the next four years. kef
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yeah, let's see where they are with the World
Bank. Russia collapsed politically and economically after .1995.
It also deteriorated with Yeltsin's health problems even though
he was reelected in 1996. )Qt
[Line drops and is reestablished.]
The President:
Hi, Tony.
Solana is on TV.
(U)
(U)
Okay, yes.
~ECRE'P
(U)
The President:
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
aEGRE'f
CON'FIlJEM'fIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, George Chastain,
Robert Ford, Joel Ehrendreich, Jim Smith,
Roger Merletti
June 21, 1999, 2:26 - 2:33 p.m. EDT
Ljubljana, Slovenia
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hello, Bill.
(U)
Tony?
(U)
All I've
Prime Minister Blair: We don't know how much more than that at
the moment.
It appears one of them was a sergeant, and they
were trying to demine a school, and a mine went off.
I'm afraid
we're going to see quite a bit of this before it's all through.
(U)
COHFIDEN'fIAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (d)
Declassify on:;
J.
COl,PIDEfi"'fIAL
The President:
Yes.
They said it might have been more like a
booby trap than a traditional mine.
It's difficult to tell
whether they're deactivated.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: And it was in a school, I think. Well,
they're pretty sick, actually. As more comes out about these
Serb soldiers, it really is unbelievable.
(U)
~~~~~~~~~~~
The President:
There was a show
are at America and me. Our guys
interviewed with yesterday seems
close to showing the truth about
They're going to have to come to
. Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I think in the near term we have to check the
schedule by which our people are moving in. There was also a
special about the French troops trying to separate the Serbs and
the Kosovars. JR1
Prime Minister Blair:
Okay, Bill.
Goodbye, Tony.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
CmtFIDEHTL".L
(U)
CONFIDBNTL"tL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
The President
Prime Minister Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Pretty grim.
(U)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
Classified by: Glyn T. Davies
Reason: 1.5(qJ
Declassify On:!
i.
~~.
5~~:C:::~:Haroco}l.
l
">-,
~.~-~~:~:_ "-/~- ~
__ "';!!-.:
.J~'
.-i
..- ' .
~-._';'_ ,_.!-./>.;--:~:
,."
CONFIDEN'flhL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
do now? j...G-Y
The President:
Yes.
L - - - -_ _ _ _
The President:
That way the IRA doesn't look like it's
surrendering to the unionists? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes.
The President:
It looks like you could manage this marching
thing if you could solve the bigger problem.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President: Which means i f they meet all the local people's
conditions, they could march. JRf
Prime Minister Blair:
I
The President:
Yes.
J,e1
The president:
Do you want me to call them in a couple of hours
-- Adams and Trimble? ~
Prime Minister Blair: /
I
The President:
Right now?
L-----------------~/
The President:
IrE-.O-.1"C":3-52-6-,-se-c-ti-on-1,-4(-b-)(---'d)l
CONFI DEN''l'IAL
CGNF I DEN'fIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
I
The President:
If they're in a meeting, I will wait until they
finish to call them. ~
Prime Minister Blair: /
The President:
The President:
J&r
Yes.
The President:
Thanks, Bill.
Goodbye.
(U)
(U)
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
CO~IFIDEN'fIAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
MEMORANDUM~-F-TELEPHONE-C:ONVERSATI~O~N~--------------~
SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Jarosinski
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
The President:
You are where you were last time we talked,
aren't you?
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
"'===:;======~:;;""'=~--":"----'
The President:
I know.
take my call now? .Jrf?'r
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Make a counterproposal?
Yes.
I E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)I
The President:
Yeah.
CmJFI DEN'fIAL
The President:
The President:
(~
The President:
The President:
The President:
Yes . \
[
The President:
Is there anything I
can say to Gerry Adams? Anyth~ng
e
states can offer
them to help them politically to move closer to where Trimble
is? You know I actually have far more popularity within the
Catholic community than the Protestant community. Most of the
Protestants think I am a turncoat.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
.JR!I
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
cmIFIDEN'fIAL
____________________________~I .ye1
~I
Yes.
COHFI DEN'fIPrL
The President:
Let me ask you this.
a halt until tomorrow morning?
(Z)
The President:
Okay, I will start to call them. My national
security people are in if you need to call me in the middle of
the night.
I know what to say now. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
)X'r
The President:
Okay, I am getting ready to get on the plane, so
(U)
let me see what I can do.
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Alright, Bill.
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'l'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Joel Schrader, Miles Murphy,
Matt Sibley, Amy Swarm and Roger Merletti
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello Tony?
(U)
(U)
The President:
It's fine.
(U)
CONFI DEH'l'IAL
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5(d
Declassify On:
Glyn T. Davies
G'" -- .
7/8
(",
:':,
'.
The President:
I talked to Adams about that for a long time.
I
spent the better part of a year trying to convince him that
ought to be his position without success. And last night I do
believe, rightly or wrongly, his belief is that he made some
significant commitments esterday about what he is
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CGNFIDEN'PIAb
Yes.
.,
~ '-.'~
CON'FIDEN''fIAL
The President:
The President:
Did they commit to follow Chastelain's
timetable? ..)-e}
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The President:
that. JGt
The President: What about the argument they can all take the
government down later, and we will all support it. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
CONFIDEH'fL'\L
c mr FI DEN'J'IAL
The President:
Yes.
The President:
My view is that is what you ought to work on.
Is there anything you can do, any stick or carrot, to shore
Trimble up? ~
Prime Minister Blair: /
The President:
I do believe they are trying to help on that; I
think Gerry was open to it. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Is that an argument
The President: Well let me ask you this.
for you to go back to a hard deadline?
(Yl"
Prime Minister Blair:
'--------------/
CGNPI DENT IAL
CONFIDgNTIAl,
The President:
It's crazy. The whole thing is just nuts, but I
think yourbest chance is to get, based on what you say, I do
think they will accelerate the timetable.
The President:
For one thing, there has to be some
definitiveness to the commitment.
I didn't know they weren't
.{.et
more definite.
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes.
tGr
CONFI DENT 1M
CONFIDEN'flt,L
The President:
The President:
(U)
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'PIAL
cmlFIDEHTIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Robin Rickard, Joel Schrader,
Don Cheremie and James Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hey, Tony.
(U)
Hello.
Well.
CONFIDEWfIAL
Classified by:
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1.5 (dJ
Declassify On:' 7 / !~"~' _fic~i;.,:'------ ------.--~~~.
--""
-}--.-<,..,~,~"
. .,'~
I think we're
CONPIDEH'fIAL
The President:
Yes.
of October? ~
The President:
It would be interesting to see if they would do
it earlier if they can get in earlier.
~
The President:
The President:
I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CO~tFI DENTIAL
The President:
Gerry tonight?
~.
~--------------~
The President:
.-+er
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes, he has.
;e1
The President:
I will have Jim check to see if the Irish have
talked to Gerry.
If they have, I will call him.
In any event,
I'll talk to David. When I call him, what should I say? That I
hope he takes this deal? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
'--------------~
The President:
Yes. And you will make this agreement public
tomorrow? This proposal? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.}
our
"
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
Got it.
The President:
Okay.
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CQI>IFI P8HTIAL
_CONFIDENTIAL
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Miles Murphy, Robin Rickard,
Don Cheremie, Doug Bayley and James Smith
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Well, congratulations.
(U)
~========~----------~
F?
JQr
CONFIDENTIAL
Classified by: Glyn T. Davies
Reason: 1/5 (d,)
Declassify on:!
CONFIDEN'l'IltL
I had no idea.
~--------------------------~/
The President:
i t . ...J!C(
The President:
The president:
I'll keep doing it. Trimble said it will be a
real hard sell, but I think I could do it. He was really in a
very good place. That is all I know.
~
[The line dropped and was reestablished.]
The President:
Sorry.
My fault.
CmlFIDg~ITL"<L
(U)
(U)
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President: Well, I don't know what else to say, but I think
this is great. You did great. We've just got to nurse them
now, to get them there. Gerry was happy
clam. He said he
had to make Trimble look good, one thing
I E.O. 13526, section IA( d)
j)21
JR5
The President:
Right.
k1
That will be good.
U?)
CONn j,)~NT H! L
It
CONPIDEN'fIAL
Prime Minister Bl . .
The President:
Yes, even the ones who are mad at me for being
too pro-Sinn Fein, my dumping allover them will give them a
little confidence. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President: Yeas, I will see about that. You have your
people call me back with a list. Talk to Trimble; whoever he
wants me to call, I will call.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
(U)
Thanks, I will.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
CONFIDEN'fL".L
(U)
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
5298
,.13
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Ralph Sigler, Liz Rogers,
Michael Manning, Rob Williams, Joel
Ehrendreich and Lawrence Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
(U)
(U)
The President:
I've been going through the poorest parts of
America.
People have got to realize that not everyone here is
rich.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
can say so.
(U)
The President:
I don't know exactly what kind of financing you
do to encourage British investment.
I've gotten quite a bit of
stearn behind the idea of offering the same incentives to "invest
in poor -- really poor -- neighborhoods that I've given them to
invest in developing economies overseas.
So it turns around the
argument that people gripe about giving incentives for overseas
but not giving them the same incentives to invest in our own
CONFI DEHT L1l,d;,
Classified by;
Glyn T. Davies
Reason:
1. 5 (d)
Declassify On:j 7 ;iJ~'9" ~",r",~__----"-"'"--~;"\
;t::~:~~":~RARY PHOTOCOPY ,I
>,
:;_ -;':'"
:'~
_.
.f,-~-~,:.
COMFI DEN'fIAL
reservations.
The President:
Interesting.
Yes, I agree.
It's getting a
)<1
CGHFIDEHTI}\L
The President:
What does the Good Friday Accord say on the
timing of prisoner releases?
(~
"""
,...;
-..
.:::=
'"'
'"
'IS
rrl
"l
.....
o~
The President:
Yes.
CONFI DEN':FIAL
COHPIDEN''l.'IAL
. The President:
Yes, I agree with that but I don't know what
that does for you on the other side. 1er
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes, well I'll look at what is ... I think the IRA
might give some kind of commitment that there would be a
statement after July 15. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
CQWFIDg~ITL'lrL
COWFWENTIAL
tf)
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
CONFIDEN'i'IAL
CQNFIDEfi'I'IAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Liz Rogers, Michael Manning,
Rob Williams, Joel Ehrendreich and Lawrence
Butler
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
Hi, Bill, sorry to trouble you again.
The President:
CONFIDEN'fIAL
JR1
CQNFIDENTIAL
The President: Won't the IRA say this is just changing the
sequencing again. Basically they have a matter of mistrust.
They still think they're going to get jacked around on the
executive on this, don't they? Jei
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Let me ask you this. What about the legislation
itself? I hear the SDLP has problems with it.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
But do you think the legislation problems would
go away if you had any statement from the IRA?
~
Prime Minister Blair:
I think s
_
/
The President:
Let me call you back. When are you going to
bed? It must be getting pretty late there now.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
CQNFIDEN'T lAL
Tte President:
(U)
Okay, goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
GO~lFIDEH'fIAL
(U)
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Doug Bayley, Don Cheramie,
Robin Rickard, Bob Ford, James Smith and
Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello?
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
J;if
Prime Minister Blair:
(f)
The President:
I just had Barak here, and he said how much you
had done to help.
He admires you so much. We had a great talk.
(e)
.J.e1
The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
CONFIDElffIAL
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5 (d!)
Declassify On:i
(IZ)
am
CeitH'IB~M'fIA:L
The President:
The President:
The other nice trivial thing is that the British
Open is humiliating every golfer in the world. The average
score yesterday was 79.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
Yes. They have made i t has hard as they could.
They enjoy making people miserable.
It's quite good, though.
(U)
(U)
The President:
Where are we? I hope I gave a helpful statement
yesterday.
I said that I had failed to persuade them to work it
out, too, and we should just go on from here. ;e1
Prime Minister Blair:
GONFIDENTIM
COHFIDEH'fIAL
The President:
There's nothing to do now, is there?
Mitchell going to do something to help a bit? .,.kef
Prime Minister Blair:
Is George
The President:
COHFIDE~J'l'VrL
Yes.
ye1
CONnDK~JTPL
CONFI DEHTIAL
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
They should be asked whether they have ever
actually talked to these people about what they would do with
their lives when this is over. They may have some ideas, but I
can't help but believe that is a big problem here.
If Gerry
thinks it's silly, at least you've opened it with him and he
should consider doing something. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
weekend, too.
We will do that.
I
COHFIDENTIJ'.L
CONFIDEN'1'L",L
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
The President:
Do you think I should come over there?
what you were going to say?
rer
Prime Minister Blair:
Is that
.....(.ff
The President:
day trip.
JQ1
I can do an overnight or a
The President:
I'll call George and some of our congressmen
over the weekend.
I'll get on that. Maybe I can do that, if
George can come up with something different.
It wouldn't be
very different, but it could look different. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
No, I didn't.
Did you
The President:
It's what you're arguing, but on a faster
timetable. He is arguing for a customs union within the Balkans
and some provision where you put them on a clear path to EU
membership as a region. Even if Serbia gets rid of Milosevic,
you can't deal with them on a nation-by-nation basis, because of
the inter-ethnic problems. He basically said they need to come
up with a regional currency to force them together.
It's quite
COWFIDE~l'TIl'.L
CQNFIDKNTL",L
The President:
Goodbye.
Okay.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'FIAL
. CONFIDENTIAL
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
MEMORANDUM OF CONVERSATION
SUBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
United States
The President
Samuel R. Berger, Assistant to the President
for National Security Affairs
James Steinberg, Deputy Assistant to the
President for National Security Affairs
Steven Ricchetti, Deputy Chief of Staff
Gene Sperling, Assistant to the President
for Economic Policy and Director of
the National Economic Council
Antony Blinken, Special Assistant to the
President and Senior Director for
European Affairs, NSC Staff (notetaker)
Great Britain
Tony Blair, Prime Minister
John Sawers, Diplomatic Advisor
Allistar Campbell, Press Secretary
Private Secretary
DATE, TIME
PLACE:
The President:
Tony, you did a very good job on the debt issue.
If we can make it work, that will mean almost 2/3 debt
forgiveness for the poorest countries. This would be a real
step forward.
The Jubilee has enormous appeal -- getting rid of
all the debt for the millennium. But it also has real problems
that we would need to access before we embrace the concept.
For
example, Bob Rubin points out that for countries that may want
to borrow more who get 100 percent forgiveness, wiping out their
debt will be much harder for them because it will effect their
credit rating. Maybe we should look at adding rescheduling
CONFI:lE~JTIAL
Classified by:
Robert A. Bradtke
Reason:
1.5 (~)..
Decla"ify OU,(
. _ .
JUIE~'-'2- _~u-'c-~
"..}_._-__:::--):,", . ,'
COHFI DHTIAL
without taking them out of the credit market. Rubin feels very
strongly about this. But anyway, what we need to do is focus on
the fact that we are doing a huge deal here. This is a major
achievement. We must not let what we are not doing become the
s or. It's what we are doing that's important. je1
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) I
'-
Jim Steinberg:
The problem is specifying who. That is, who are
the 1,000 companies and why are we choosing them.
I think it
woul~be better to callan the private sector as a whole.
kef
The President: That's true but on the other hand this needs to
be organized. We can't just calion companies to act.
~
Jim Steinberg: Well there is a legal question when asking
specific companies.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
Gene Sperling:
The problem of asking specific companies is that
there could be a feeling of coercion. )1
The President:
I think the thing to do would be to designate a
lead person in the business community to do this. That's what
we did on welfare.
I asked Eli Segal to run a voluntary
program.
ter
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIDEN'PIAL
CQl)IFIDEN'FIJrL
This is a critical
CONFIDEN"i'IAL
CotilPIDEN'f'IAL
The President:
European.
J.e1
The President:
weeks.
r...e1
Yes,
Samuel Berger:
If I could just raise one idea. You both should
lay down a marker with the Secretary General on how you see the
job. You should imply a veto right.
In other words, you
together would expect he would not appoint someone without your
approval.
t,.e)
The President:
Anyway, I don't
know your politics in Europe. But I do know that this is our
deal.
If it fails, it will be our failure. My have no
preconceived notions and no conditions on nationality. My only
concern is confidence. ~
Jacques Klein is tough and good. But I keep coming back to the
bottom line -- whoever it is has to be up to the job. ~
John Sawers:
.....(.Gt-
Allister Campbell:
I
IE.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)1
COHFIDEN'PIAL
CONFIDEN:t'IAL
The President:
Y POSl lon lS on
00
navigated the shoals of partisan politics and never
anything.
This requires special additional skills.
have loved to have the job myself.
(x1
Prime Minister Blair:
from scratch.
(U)
I would
The President:
for names so at
The President:
I KO. 13526, section 1.4(d)
John Sawers:
I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
Yes,
The President: We need direct aid too. We've already got some
going for Albania and Macedonia.
I think we need to structure
our assistance in Kosovo in a way that is helpful to the Front
Line States.
For example, using their construction companies.
We need to get people on the ground to start turning our roadrnap
for the Balkans into reality. We need the person, we need the
plan, we need an approach that takes into account the whole
region. What I think we should do on the Stability Pact is for
us and Prodi to convene a meeting in the Balkans maybe in
Sophia. Bring all the people together, the U.S., the EU, the
CONP! DEN'!' IAL
cmIFHlEN'I'IAb
Jet
I
I
1'===~--------------------~
John Sawers:
The President:
I think we all need to watch them.
If we have
something that we can live with, I don't mind letting them
declare victory so we can just get this out of the headlines and
move on. Right now they are in the way and we need to resolve
this.
I want to nail this Russian thing down. The other reason
is that I am truly worried that Yeltsin might make a dangerous
decision. He thinks we are trying to extend our sphere of
influence. He just doesn't understand we are trying to make a
more peaceful Europe and reverse ethnic cleansing. But I think
he wili do the right thing at the end.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIPEN'I'IAlJ
(U)
The President:
Yeltsin is the only Russian leader who truly
hates communism, believes in freedom and integration with the
west.
vz!
GONFI QEHTIM
cor,nSENTIAl
CONFIDEH'fIAL
/,11
SVBJECT:
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Michael Manning, Deana Sutliff,
Roger Merletti, James Smith and Richard
Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(V)
Hi, Bill.
(V)
(V)
(V)
Prime Minister Blair: Yes, I went to Italy and France and had a
good" time. ," Where were you now? (V)
The President: I was in Martha's Vineyard and then New York,
but I'm about to go off to New Zealand for a week, and I wanted
to talk to you before I left. I've been talking to everybody
about this East Timor situation and the rumor mill is rife that
Habibie might be deposed or they're sending some military leader
out there who says he will never give East Timor up. I believe
we all need to put as much pressure as possible on Indonesia to
accept a force and then figure out who'll make it up. The
Aussies are ready to go, they want to send 2,000 or 3,000 people
cmrn DEU'fIAL
Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke
Reason: 1.5 (d)
Declassify On:!
CONFIDENTIAL
there; they don't think it will (take very many people. And, if
the UN approved it, the Chinese might even send some people.
But I think it would be a very embarrassing comparison to Kosovo
if Indonesia runs all the Timorese out of the country or if they
reverse it and we don't do anything. We've got to do something,
it seems to me, so anything you can do to put the heat on
Indonesia would be helpful. Je1
Prime Minister Blair:
I agree.
-tet
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Absolutely right.
Yes.
JCr
The President:
would
Prime Minister Blair:
CONTIDEN'fIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
I~_p_r_i_m_e__M_i_n_l_.s__t_e_r__B_l_a_l_.r__: __I___________________________________~
The Bresident:
No.
The President:
wan e
0 say a word a out
the Balkans.
I got your letter and I understand the pressure
you're under to cut deployment in order to increase readiness
and retention, but I hope you can maintain your position as a
lead nation in both Bosnia and Kosovo, because our partnership
there has been a bedrock of success and the Russians, I believe,
are working out better than we'd hoped. I think the Kosovo
thing is settling down, if we can just hang on. Your letter
indicated you're talking to allies about making contributions to
backfill your forces.
I don't know how that's going, but I hope
we can maintain a good level of cooperation and ability with
whoever goes in there. ~
LP_r_i_ID_e__M_l_'n_l_._s_t_e_r__B_l_a_i_r_:_/
_________________________________________
CONFIDEWl'IAL
~j)
CONFIDEH'fIAL
The President:
setback? 18
The President:
ele~tion
No.
The President:
I'll try to call him before I leave for Asia.
There's not much I can do, but I can encourage him.
(~
Prime Minister Blair:
cmiFIDENTIAL
CONFIDEN':PIAL
The President:
The Catholic?
Yes.
The President:
It was unanimous, wasn't it?
Americans? )..e1
The President:
Don't you think it will just get worse if we
don't resolve the politics of it? ..+-e-r
CONFIDENTIAL
;.
CONFIDEWfL"do
The President: You don't think there's any chance the Mitchell
talks will produce a breakthrough? Jef
Prime Minister Blair:
I think there's some chance, but it's
pretty slim at the moment.
The President:
when. Jct
The President:
So, the main thing you, want me to do now is say
something nice about the Patten report? )X1
Prime Minister Blair:
/kj
The President:
I'll be down in New Zealand, but there's a hellof a lot going on in the world at the moment, and we can always
talk.
I just wanted you to know I'll be out of pocket for the
next week or 10 days.
Jet
Prime Minister Blair: When am I going to see you?
doing the Third Way thing in Florence?
(U)
The President:
Absolutely.
Are you
(U)
(U)
You did?
The President:
(U)
,-_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _,
Is he one of ours?
Let me
I
The President:
Got it.
GOHFIDEHI'IAb
The President:
Thank you.
Okay, Bill.
The President:
Goodbye.
Okay.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFI DEN'FIAL
Je1
SECREr
THE WHITE HOUSE
WASH INCHON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Jenny McGee, Robert Ford,
Joel Ehrendreich, Elizabeth Rogers,
Roger Merletti and Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
I'm fine.
(U)
(U)
The President:
I haven't talked to you in a while and I wanted
to check in on a few things.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
The President:
I'm great.
I've been fighting reactionaries in
Congress, we're winning with the people.
I thought your speech
to your party group was great.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Thanks. We've got an interesting
situation here at the moment because the conservatives have
really moved off to a very far right position.
(U)
The President:
That's what our guys are doing here. One reason
Bush is doing so well is because he criticized one thing on the
right. He is making people think he is saving them from the
right. But, it's a fraud because he is really for them on
everything else.
I have to figure out how to expose the fraud
that Bush is the new Clinton, establishing a new Republican
party like I made a new Democratic party.
It's helping Bush but
it is killing AI. They asked me what I thought, and I said it
SECRE'f
Classified by: Robert A. Bradtke
Reason:
1.5(c,~d)
~~.'
_~~ ___,__ ~~_~-~,
Declassify On:! 10/~9~J~'<'''~' ---c~;
0';, .' ~TON LIBRARY PHOTOCOPY . i'
. 'p! ~~~:.;.__ .__ .;.:---._..~ ..:.,..c..:,_",~~~_~~.~
SEeRE''
was terrible how the right wing was treating him. After all, he
was for them, and his lobbyists organized them to kill our
patients' bill of rights. He was for school vouchers and for
the NRAtrying to kill our handgun measures.
Why were they
being so mean to him? I thought it was terrible how mean they
were being, but they wouldn't give what I said that much press
-- it wasn't what they wanted to say.
That is what we've got to
do. Al has to position himself between Bush and Bradley. Now
it's very interesting. We are at a point where the perceptioos
of major players are at variance with their positions.
It's a
terrible thing and there'~ a limit to how much I can do because,
in our political culture, I can say what I think but it will
hurt if it appears I'm trying to control the outcome of another
election.
I've got to be careful not to tell people how to
vote.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
it?
(U)
Yes.
The President:
Yes, you're right, it is . . What I am doing -the results speak for themselves. The question is not whether
we are going to change, but how we change -- a u-turn or hold on
to what we're doing. Here are the new ideas for the 21 st
century. That is the argument I am making, and the argument
Gore has to make.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
I think he's got to really.
If it comes
down to general positioning, it will get more difficult.
(U)
The President:
The people still don't know what a VP does in
our country.
It's not an accident we've elected only two in our
history. But it's still the best way to become president -someone dies or something happens in the interim.
The Vice
President has become more important in modern American history.
That's how Nixon got to come back as President. Nixon barely
lost, and Bush won when Dukakis collapsed.
It's not such a bad
thing to be a Vice President now.
It's not the handicap it once
was, but you have to capitalize on it. So far we haven't been
able to capitalize on it even though our ratings are slightly
higher than Eisenhower's and Reagan's were at this point. He
ought to be able to do that, I think he is getting it sorted out
now.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
SECRET
The President:
+&l-
He told me that. /
I
The President:
;e1
~_p_r_i_m_e M_~_'n
__
__i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a__i_r_:____________________________________________
~~
The President: She served you well and worked very hard. She
made people laugh when she pissed them off, and that's a great
thing. ).e}
Prime Minister Blair:
I I'll try
'-n-o-t:---;-t-=-o--=o"";f::-f::-e""':r::--=-a-=n-=-ym=-o-=r-:e=-u":"n=-h;--::-e'l-=p""f;:'u::-il;--a-:n-a-l'o-:--:-g"i-e-=s-:.---'I'i"-:w:-::-:"r':-o-':t-=e--:It::-:o:---lh im t ha t I
will try to stay out of the analysis business.
~)
Prime Minister Blair: /
I
aECRET
J
/
:>ECRET
Yes. /
The President:
One thing Gerry said, I've never talked to you
about it, Gerry told me they trusted de Chastelain and would
stay on it if he promulgated a schedule. ~
The President:
You could even have de Chastelain promulgate a
schedule for decommissioning starting on a date that was ten
days after they got in the executive. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes.
I
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)I
The President:
What if de Chastelain promulgated a schedule for
decommissioning and then you said to Trimble that he'd better
:>ECRE'I'
,.,
Yes.
The President: And then Trimble lets them in and says if they
sli , we'll walk out. What about that?
~)
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
The President:
Yes.
\
The President:
LI_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The President:
It sort of takes it away from them.
If you
could let de Chastelain offer the schedule, they could say
something nice about how they respect de Chastelain. But
they've got to be in the government to fulfill this obligation,
then if this date slips then Trimble says I'm walking. And then
it is allan them.
They both have what they asked for, they are
in the executive and then have this date staring them in the
face -- only ten days away.
It seems that would help Trimble
with his constituents if he has a deal in advance and not three
months away. Everybody's used to wandering around their offices
and getting to know each other and trying not to look like the
biggest asshole at the garden party.
This has to happen fairly
quickly.
(.G+Prime Minister Blair:
\====~----------------------~
SECRET
SECRE'P
The President:
That way Adams doesn't have to say anything to
get into the government but they are screwed immediately and
quickly if they don't deliver. Let me run it by Mitchell. ~
Prime Minister Blair:~
\
The President:
Okay. There a couple of other things I'd like
to run through.
First, thank you and Jacques and Gerhard for
running that piece on CTBT in the New York Times. Here's the
problem. My Senate agreed to a truncated schedule. Half of the
Republicans are against this on its merit.
For the others it's
just politics. They are out to screw me because they don't want
to help me and don't want to help AI. But a bunch are genuine
isolationists.
They just say 'piss on our allies n and "to hell
with what they thinki screw anybody who screws with us. n
It's
just sick what a world we are living in here. But I'm trying to
work a deal so this is not voted down.
I'm trying to work on a
schedule.
If they start hearings, we will get them involved in
the process.
Even if they don't ratify while I am president,
it'll be obvious to the world that they are strengthening the
treaty. They will if they are working on safeguards. But it is
just silly intellectually, just awful what they are doing. And
they are hurting themselves. They are giving us a good issue in
the elections.
It is terrible what they have done. But your
piece was very helpful and I wanted to thank you for it. The
problem is that under the-rules of the Senate they are in a
position where a small majority can prevent the vote from being
delayed now. We may get it put off by one vote. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Right.
(C)
SECRET
maneuvers.
out there.
The President:
It's stupid. They won't pay UN dues and they
don't want an aid budget. They want a big military that never
does anything.
They spend more money on defense than I do, but
don't want them to do anything, and I'm the most pro-defense
Democrat President that we've had; They want a bunch of bombs
and missile.s and a defense system, and then they just cut
everybody's taxes. They want to put rich people behind gates so
the starving can't get at them. They basically want an upscale
Brazil for America.
It is awful, but I think we can beat them
back.
I want to say a word about Florence, and then I've got
two other things.
I'm glad we let Cardoso come, but can you
explain to me, in a European context, why we didn't invite Wim
Kok or Guterres from Portugal? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The other guy I thought should have been
invited, who has been a wonderful ally to all of us is Chretien.
r=~~~~~~~~I~E~.O~.=1=3=52=6~,~se=ct=io=n=1=.4=(d~)~I~~~~=-~~~~~I
I agree.
The President:
I'm afraid it will undercut the whole idea of a
global movement.
I will not be in office to work with these
people more than another 15 months, but you and Chretien may be
around another five ears. The other guy in Latin America is
Zedillo,
SECRET'
The President:
Absolutely.
I am in complete agreement.
Yes.
The President:
I do too. And it is also a way for Europe to
get more influence over him in a positive way. )Zl
'-------~~
The President:
The President: Maybe one thing that could come out of Italy is
some sort of statement that will help him.
~
SECRE'f
The President:
Yeah.
I'll take some guidance from you, and I
will talk to him about it.
I think he's trying to do the right
thing but he's been a little foggy about it.
jQ1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I agree.
10
~--------------~
The President: Yes, it is. We're going to have every NGO and
labor union demonstrating against us and we have to have
something that answers what they are saying.
I see rising
protectionism in this country.
In the last two years, we took
on a huge amount of the shortfall of the Asian economy by
increasing imports and running a trade deficit which is unusual
in conventional terms, but the world has changed quite a lot.
For example, in '97 and '98 we bought ten times more steel from
. Japan; China, and Russia than Europe did.
Protectionism is
rising among Republicans and Democrats, and I see it manifesting
itself in other countries. We have to find a way to turn back
the tide of it. We have to try to find mechanisms where we can
discuss all these things together.
Europe is in better shape on
this than we are.
I'm not trying to impose standards on other
countries, but there's got to be a way to work our way through
this. -+e-r
Prime Minister Blair:
~_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _--J~
The President:
I wish you would. We have to see how this plays
out against the media story in America to see if there is more
coverage given to the people demonstrating than to the fact that
we are going to meet.
Two others issues I would like raise.
President Frei of Chile raised Pinochet with me in New Zealand.
He said Pinochet's presence in London is a big problem for the
Chilean government. He thought they had worked out a solution
to get rid of him by putting him in the Senate. They are very
concerned now.
Our position has got to be that this is a legal
matter and whatever you do, we will be in agreement. But Chile
has twice the per capita income of any other in Latin America,
they have had this immense success, and they thought they had
put this nightmare behind them.
SECRBT
ECRE'f
11
.Jet
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I won't say this to anybody.
I'm also aware
what a problem this is for you. My take on where they are is
they thought they had done their version of Mandela's Truth
Commission -- put it in a box and store it there, not live
forever. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
SECRE'f
gECREP
things.
12
I know everyone is getting sanctions fatigue,
The President:
Would it end the suspension because any country
could vote to veto continuing it? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRET
SECRET
13
LP_r__i_m_e__M_i_n_l_'s_t__e_r__B_l_a_l_'r__: __________________________________________
~/:).
I will look
SECRET
14
Look Bill.
The President:
The President:
We've been criticized for not bein
condemning of the coup.
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
ECRE'f'-
more
oS EeRE'!'
15
Two
strong people can do the sensible thing.
I think our objective
ought to be to get them to do the sensible' thing. J&r
Prime Minister Blair:
Okay.
(U)
(U)
The President:
I will see you in Italy and probably at the OSCE
thing in Turkey.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
talk with you.
(U)
Yeah.
The President:
Yeah.
You are in a position, as you get more
influence in Europe, I believe we've got a shot now, because of
the two earthquakes, to resolve the conflict between Greece and
Turkey. To accept Turkey into the EU will lock Turkey into the
West for the next fifty years and that would help solve some
problems if east of there goes sour.
Two areas that I have
wanted to make progress on -- the Aegean and India/Pakistan. We
need to talk again, maybe before the OSCE, and I will tell you
what I have been doing on it. But I think we've got a shot in
the Aegean now.
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
16
SECRE'P
The president:
The Turks and Greeks are getting along better.
The earthquakes made them see. each other as human beings again.
The problem is Cyprus. The Greeks think they were uprooted and
can't go to visit their relatives' graves.
It's got to be a
strictly cold-blooded deal. We've done our part with military
coope~atio~.
We've got to get something that leads them on the
-path to Europe.
Otherwise, they'll never do it because they
think they need to ~get alonif' like the Irish.
tGt
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Okay Bill.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRET
(U)
tONFI DEt.'!' IM
PARTICIPANTS:
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The President:
I am up at Camp David.
I am out playing golf
and it is raining like hell, and the wind is blowing.
(U)
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The President:
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
am behind you.
I appreciate that.
I agree.
.(e)
jl
[Gap)!
The President: Let me ask you one other thing. I hear Chirac
wouldn't go along with the position you wanted to take on
Cyprus.
{.e1
Prime Minister Blair:
CWNFI DEH'I'IAL
[GAP]
(I)
Oh, thanks.
(U)
je1
The President: I tried to make him see that you and I were not
threatening everything he believes in. ye7
Prime Minister Blair: It would be really good to get together
in the next few months. I have so much that I would like to go
through with you. -+e-r
The President:
than February?
Okay, bye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
COHFIDEHTIAL
(U)
COHF'IDEH'fIAL
(~ I, ~ 0 \~<
,-----------------------------------------------~~
I>
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PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
. NOTE TAKERS:
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
(U)
(U)
I'm fine.
I Prodi will be
';':h-:e-:r::-e--:t;:-o::-m:-:-o-::r-:-r-:o-:-w:--a-:n::-d:;--:;=I-:-w:-:;i'l""l~s:::p::-e::-n:::-:;d-=s-=o-=m-:e~t:::l;-:'m::-e::--w""""'i""t-;:h""'h:-:l~'m---1.
I t h ink the r e
will be some investments needed, and we'll carry a lot of it, but
we may need EU help~1~------~--~--~~-------:-~--71 If things.
get resolved, it might come to a head in a couple of months. jQ1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
jQ1
Yes.
ji
Tomorrow, is
(U)
Yes, I do.
Reason: 1.5d
Declassify on
The President:
Yes.
That would be a good deal. Trimble is
coming in the next few days and I will see him. And we are doing
what we can with Sinn Fein on the issue of IRA guns. -ter
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
That's good. The only other thing I wanted to
mention is that I think it is important to bring this Iraq
resolutioh-to a vote tomorrow.
I know the French are going to
abstain, but we've got to get something moving -- this thing is
stuck on idle. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes.
I don't know.
(JZ')
Je1
(U)
I
The President:
I agree.
So is
The President:
Yes.
11m doing fine and I am delighted things
are going well. We have to just keep working .at it -- chippin~
!':I.t.f::::l U
Lf?1::
~------The President:
I E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
preparing to be a father again? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
selves. ...(-e}
It was so unexpected.
The President:
Are you
(U)
~------------~/
I
)k1
~p_r_l_'m
__
e __
M_i_n_i_s_t_e__
r __B_l_a_i_r__
: ________________
The President:
Yep,
__________________
]e1
L ____________________________________________
The President:
The in-crowd is making a lot of votes on
Chechnya. Maybe it will change when people start seeing a lot of
body bags, but as long as they keep getting the votes, they'll
keep'doing'it . ..J...e-r
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
keJ
Really good.
kef
Prime Minister Blair:
Thanks.
(U)
-- End of Conversation
(U)
co'iH'IDEN'FIAL
L ) I
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Michael Manning, Rob Williams,
Roger Merletti,James Smith, Dick Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hi,
B~ll.
Hey, Tony.
(U)
(U)
Same to you.
a'm fine.
(U)
(U)
(U)
(U)
'-------'
The President:
I'm doing great. We're moving into our new home
and staying busy.
I've just been out to the Grand Canyon,
protecting another million acres of land, and Al's doing better.
So I'm feeling pretty good about things right now.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
That's
-- a difficult situation --
Hello, Tony?
(U)
(U)
(U)
"-----"
!{:. _: ..I~~~~~:RARYPH6T6COPY .t
ot;'-i"'-"-'~-~"-
CONFIDEN'f'IAL
Alright.
(U)
(U)
Good.
The President: For one thing, he will. We've worked very hard
this, and I want them to give de Chastelain something credible
wi h.
d n't hink the hav re'e ted it out of hand,
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(d)
It's very helpful
de Chastelain and Mandelson have minimized the sense of a
deadline," certainly publicly, because I think we need to frame
the issue for January not as meeting Trimble's deadline, but as
the need for concrete steps for de Chastelain to say the IRA is
on the way to meeting the timetable in the Good Friday agreement.
I know that Adams is trying to keep everybody together, but one
of the possibilities might be if they could be seen as responding
to you, rather than a unionist deadline. If something could be
done on the Patten report or something -- I want to make the
argument he's doing this in response to that, in addition to the
Good Friday Accord. .(.e1
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
COWHDiWTIU
CONFIDSN1'IAL
The President:
giving? .-tel
The President:
Yes.
(U)
CONE IDENTIAL
"OMFIfJE1<f'fIAL
That's great.
okay, Tony.
Goodbye.
Goodbye.
(V)
(V)
(V)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEH1'IAL
.~~~._fl... ~;,.:,------
- ..
-~~:
SECRE'f
0777
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Frank Jarosinski,
James Smith, Roger Merletti and Dick Norland
DATE, TIME
AND. PLACE:
The President:
(U)
Hello, Bill.
Hello, Tony.
(U)
(U)
It's okay.
(U)
3ECRET
Classified by:
Reason:
1.5d
Declassify on
tA(b)(d)
$~CRE~
The President:
J.81
Prime Minister Blair:
....~
o
......=
'"'"'"'
~
...Q
&l
...,
....
The President:
Everyone else has made compromises
~I
__~__~____~~__~____~__~~~~I
said.
~E~v7.e~r~yb~o~dr,y~e~I~s~e~rld'lrldr7w~h~a~t~t~h~e,ry .
The President:
Okay.
So you want me to call Gerry and take one
more whack at him?
(jf)
Prime Minister Blair:
I think it's a
ood idea.
1.4(b)(d)
The President:
So this statement they were willing to make about
the IRA, they can't even make that public? ~
SECRET
3ECRE'l'
,
lE.o.
Yes,
The President: No, no, I think the IRA may not care if America
withdraws its support, but I think Sinn Fein will be in a lot
worse condition if its friends in Congress lay it all on them.
He may not be able to do anything about it, ma be he even wants
it in some manner. He can't say this,
SECRE'l'
3ECRET
The President:
I agree.
The President:
IE.O.
The president:
SECRET
IE.O.
SECRE'l'
'11---_ _ _ _ _---'
The President: Yes. Even that is silly because they could
always get more if they had any grounds. The radical Irish could
get more. J.-Y
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
--t3"I
The President:
Yes.
-r-n-
NO, no.
The President:
Okay.
Right, Bill.
(U)
(U)
Many thanks.
Goodbye.
(U)
Goodbye.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
(U)
3ECRET
THE WHITE HOUSE
/. C3,
WASHINGTON
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
Frank Jarosinski, Deana
Sutliff, Miguel Aguilo, RO'ger Merletti, Don
Gentile and Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello.
Hi Bill.
Hi Tony.
(U)
(U)
(U)
(U)
(U)
The President:
I did it yesterday.
the Senate in New York.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
interesting.
(U)
(U)
-SEO,Er
Reason: 1.5(d)
Declassify On: - 2/9/10 _
~.
.'
:'"'~:~--.".~-
~~;~~' ~:R1\RY
_-------~
. .......
PHOTOCOPY
)1
SECRET
The President:
He is doing fine.
Yeah.
(U)
EC~ET
ou about mine.
Here
".
;":'~'-'
'.
~.
SECRE'l'
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
Of course I do.
I'm just trying to think about
how to keep this thing together.
JZI
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Let me ask you something. Do you think any
argument they use is looking for a pretext for doing this and
they wanted to make it clear they did not support such things
and wanted to do it partly because of the terrorist incident in
the north? \
2iECR'l'
The President: Well, did Adams give you any -kind of opening
when you asked for an act of reconciliation? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Let me ask you, you and Bertie have agreed on
~hat you've asked Adams to do? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
to Trimble?
vn
Right.
y()
3ECRE'f
The President:
Trimble is coming over here in a couple of days
-- a week or 10 days, but it will be done by then. ~
Prime Minister Blair: Yeah it will be done by then.
need is a two-week breathing space. ~
The President:
you two weeks?
What we
+&t-
The President: Okay. I'll get in touch with Gerry and Martin
and see what we can do.
I'll let you know.
(S)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
No, no.
I think about this more than anything
else, besides the screw-ups in the Middle East. Let me ask you
3ECRE''
BECRE':F
(C)
The President:
I know you're up to your ears in other things
but we've been dealing with this for years and it's sort of a
big deal here. Rodney told me he put some more stuff down on
the table.
In a political season, it would be big over here to
_ get this open sore resolved.
If you could have somebody take a
look at it.
I have never seen him more agitated about anything.
He is just trying to get it resolved. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
(U)
Are
The President: Let me tell you what we are trying to work out.
You want me to come, don't you? -fC+Prime Minister Blair:
proper talk with you.
The President: I'm trying to figure out what the best time is
because we have to do this Third Way thing in Germany and there
might be time to run to Russia. We're trying to resolve
bilateral issues with Russia and kind of get this Chechnya thing
resolved.
Putin has enormous potential, I think.
I think he's
very smart and thoughtful.
I think we can do a lot of good with
him.
I'm trying to figure how to do all these things and come
to London because Cherie's time is coming close.
I want to come
when it would cause you the least problems and try to leave open
the option, if you need me to, to go to Ireland.
I want to come
and do you the most good.
()
Prime Minister Blair:
It's a good idea in any sort of
circumstances. They would be delighted to see you. Well,
(U)
Cherie is due on May 20.
I mean, anytime is good.
BECKE'!'
SECI'tc';r
(U)
(U)
The President:
(U)
The President:
I would love to come afterwards and get to see
the baby. Let me see what I can do.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Okay Bill, we will be in touch.
love to see you come over.
(U)
The President:
Bye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRE'1'
I would
SFeRET
SUBJECT:
B~itish
(U)
The President
Prime Minister Blair
PARTICIPANTS:
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello.
Hey.
(U)
Bill.
(U)
(U)
How are you doing?
I'm okay.
(U)
(U)
The President:
3ECRE'f
Yes.
Y0
pCRE'l'
.1
The President:
Where is he on this?
The President:
f5t-
The President:
I think you ought to go to Trimble and try to
work it out. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
SECRE'P
3ECRE'f'
The President:
The President:
If we could get to him today you could have this
all resolved by Monday.
(.,g-)
Prime Minister Blair:
~I________________________________~
The President:
If we don't have some move by you and Trimble
today or tomorrow, this thing could unravel over the weekend.
How much does Trimble know about this?
~
The President:
What I'm suggesting is we tell him what they
said and get him to make some noise in tomorrow's papers saying,
you know, there is movement here, something where he can reach
out to them.
Or call Adams or something. You need them to
connect before they go to bed tonight.
I just think that
something has to be done before the papers corne out and all hell
breaks loose...
t&}
Prime Minister Blair:
3:ECr<:EI
Okay.
~ECRE'f
I
The President: Yes, I think to make that really work we need
some sort of signal from Trimble that he believes this is all
possible. .J...91
Prime Minister Blair:
The President: I agree with that, but if Trimble can give them
an excuse to do that it would be great. ~
Prime Minister Blair: /
SECRET
oSgCRgT
The President:
Goodbye.
Fine.
(U)
End of Conversation
SECRi;T
Bye.
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
/1<6 S
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Deana sutliff,
Frank Jarosinski, Sean Tarver, Don Gentile
. DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
Hello, Tony.
(U)
Hi, Tony.
(U)
(U)
Okay,
just talk.
Yes.
(U)
(U)
Classified by:
Reason: 1.5(d)
Declassify On:,
Robert A. Bradtke
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
1.4(b)(d) I
jQ1
The President:
It is really important.
It's not just
political.
You need to talk to him. )Q1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes.
(U)
L4(b)(d) I
The President:
There are a couple of Germans who are qualified,
but he can't get them to accept the job.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
Yes.
(U)
rk~"'-~-ft'7'-';'::' ".~'-'~"-'~'-~"-;;,
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~'~""-::;''-:~_;_:_J:'':-~ -:;-o,J. .. :- -.~~_ o~_ -,_-;:...-~ ___ ,,-'-/.':,.
.COHFIDEN'l'IAL
Yes.
(U)
The President:
I
I just wanted to
The President:
Go.
(U)
ket
-COHFIDEN'FIhL
Okay, Bill.
Good Bye.
(U)
(U)
Good Bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
COHFIDE11!Il'tL
SECRE'l'
1820
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
("
(U)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Yes, sure.
feI
The President:
Let me give you my thoughts. We've got violence
everyday, KFOR attrition, UN operations too slow, and;:.-w.:..:..:::e'--'-"ro..:e"--_ _---.
corning up on spring which is a most dangerous time.
Classified by:
Robert A. Bradtke
Reason:
1.S(d)
i
Declassify on;
rn!e
Ls--e-c-o-n-d~t~h~i-n-g--~i-s~t'h-a-t~-w-e~h-a-v--e~t-o--r-e-d'-o-u'b~l~e--o--u-r--e-f~f-o-r~t-s--w-l~'~t~h~the
deal
The President:
Yes. I
Yes.
' - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '
glbCRE'I'
SECRE'f
"E.O.
The President:
Let me ask you.
13526, section 1.4(d) I J
h' k
J
I
I t In the
trick is and the problem is that authority is too dispersed.
Is
there any way we can get Kofi to somehow empower them? The
problem is that Kouchner works for the UN, KFOR is a UN force,
and we're here not wanting to get in the way, but not wanting to
I
13526, section 1.4(d)
~
s_c__
r_e_w__u_p_.__I ________________________________________________
E.O.
L..
Prime Minis
The President:
I think the other. You know, my sense is the
Stability Pact, because you're putting up the money, would be no
problem there.
What is Kouchner's relationship with the French?
If they tell him what to do, will he do it? ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
I agree with that. We will work on it from our
side and can talk about it.
I just think this is so important.
I think this is part of the calls you'll make next week in
Lisbon. We need to have our people gaming out what we will or
won't do if Milosevic sends people into the northern part of
Kosovo allegedly to protect the Serbs. What are we going to do
if there is a real battle in southern Serbia and what are we
going to do about Montenegro if he invades them?
(~
SECRET
I real 1
The press on
The President:
The President:
I don't know.
(S)
Absolutel.
J,.21
The President:
It's a really rough situation over there and in a"
lot of Central Asian countries bordering there.
It was so
typically Russian ham-handed. -HHPrime Minister Blair:
SECREr
,3ECRE'I'
Okay, Bill.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
SJ;:CRET
See you
soon~
3ECP.'f'
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Deana Sutliff, Jenny McGee,
Miguel Aguila, Don Gentile, Rob Hargis and
Richard Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
Hello.
(U)
I am preparing.
(U)
(U)
The President: You said you wanted to continue my work with the
Third Way, and this is it: helping Blair balance work and
family.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
I could do with a bit of help, I tell you.
Cherie is in great form but just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
I tell you, just the thought and I feel as if my life's about to
begin again.
(U)
The President:
It is going to be interesting. Given the way the
world is changing, it'll be a completely different childhood than'
the one your others had. Anyway, it is a great thing.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair: Right, Bill, we'll put you down on the
babysitting list now, mate.
(U)
The President:
3ECRE'f'
Reason:
1.5(ct)
Declassify on;,
(U)
Sl!;CRl!;'f
~~
I'm going
SECRE'P
That's right.
IE.O.
fjECRE'f
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
The President:
I think to get there we have to somehow
demonstrate, number one, that it is only useful as a defense,
even assuming it works and assuming it meets the criteria I set
out. Basically it's a defense against people who can lob a few
missiles at you rather than a lot. We need to show that those
cooperating in the nonproliferation movement are actually
benefiting, and I need to keep working on it. There's got to be
a way to do that.
I think there is a way to make sure all the
countries that are cooperating on this do benefit.
I need to
keep working on it . .J.8l
Prime Minister Blair:
SECRET
5ECREl'
They're the only country in the world where their life expectancy
is declining because of unsanitary conditions, not because of
doctors~
They still have a fairly large number of good doctors
over there.
It's so embarrassing that it's difficult to talk
about.
I'm convinced it's one of the things that really
demoralizes the country. ~
E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
lair:
I agree.
The President:
I might be completely wrong, but my gut tells me
he could do wonders with his popularity if he could make some
progress on the health care problem.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
SECRE'f
IE.O.
SECRET
The President:
Let me ask you this.
Is there any way to link
the d~comm~ssioning with the Good Friday accord in a concrete way
- that doesn't stick them on the date? Are there any up-front
confidence building measures they can take, short of a bonfire,
which they still see~ reluctant to do?
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
un
Exactly. 1
+&T-
aECRET
The President:
3ECRE'I'
Really?
;e1
'SECRET
ILT_h_e_pr_e_Sl_'d_en_t_:I___
~========================~~
I
The President:
JQ1
+G+-
It isn't realistic.
The President:
I think you're onto some good ideas. We'll keep
talking to them. We have our channels open and when you want me
to do something, I will. I
~~______~__~____~__~~~~____~__~~__~~~~~Ithe same
IE.a.
It is.
The President:
I know you offered to meet with the IRA and they
said no. My only other suggestion is whether you or someone on
your behalf could open a channel of communication with others in
Sinn Fein/IRA besides.
In a way, at some point, it gets hard for
the leadership to make a case, and I have the feeling that the
rank and file read the newspapers and are sophisticated on one
level but in the absence of personally engaging with someone who
can explain what's going on out there, it's pretty tough.
I know
I have told you before, I think a lot of these guys can't imagine
how their lives are going to be different if this thing works
out.
I don't know how to do it, and I don't know if I can help
you, but that's the only suggestion I have.
It's a pretty narrow
funnel you're pouring all this in, and Gerry and Martin have a
heavy load.
Some may think, well, Martin is the Minister of
Education and Martin has a nice life, what/s in it for us? Maybe
3ECRE'f
'", "_
rE
;/J,?~.i" ~ .. - -~---'-~-'-:""\,
,\
SECRET
9
1.4(b)(d) I
L_p_r_i_m_e__M_1_"n
__i_s_t_e_r__B_l_a__i_r_:_____________________________________________
The President: Give some thought to it. I'll have our people
talk to your people about how to establish some sort of dialog
through a British or American contact and talk these things
through and give some thought to what this will be like -- what
are they going to do with their lives, how will it be different?
I may be overstating this, but it strikes me that if we just
could get them to think about how their lives would be different
if this worked out. I now believe Gerry and Martin want this to
work. But, if they brought it to a vote and jammed the vote and
caused half of them to bolt to some other faction -- we don't
want that. It's worth some leakage, but not much. It's easy for
me to say this, because I don't have to deal with the aftermath
of the bombs, but you would be right back in the soup. -8?r
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Yes.
Jf
10
8ECRE1'
!E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) !
The President:
You know how badly I want this to work.
I really
think it's important. You have a good economy and good social
reform. And, if you could get a breakthrough here, I think you
would secure your place and your party's place for a long time to
come. You could help New Labor in ways we can't even evaluate.
I just want to do whatever I can for you before I have to leave
here.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
y1
The P~esident:
I'll see you for sure in Berlin. 1'd like to
come to the UK and to Ireland before I go, but I want to be
flexible on timing.
I want to come see you when I can do the
mos t good.
JZI
/J
L-__________________- - - - - -
The President:
I've got a lot of things to talk to you about.
The main thing I don't want to do is something harmful to the
peace process, and it's not too good for me to look like I'm
taking a sentimental journey. I want to come and do something .
.....(..Gt""
I
!E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) !
y(
How is Hillary?
(U)
Not quite.
And Al?
The President: God, yes. He's doing much better. I expect him
to win. We have a big problem here. The cultural aversion of
white, married, Protestants to voting Democratic is a real
3gCRE'P
SECRET
11
I
The President:
\L---=~====~-------------r~~~~~
E.O. 13526, section l.4(b)(d)
The President:
If you are, you've;got a hell of a cover-up!
are doing the best you can do. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Okay, Bill.
Bye.
(U)
(U)
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
8CCRC'P
You
SECRET
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
(U)
Hello.
Hello, Tony.
Hi.
(U)
(U)
The President:
SECREi'
Reason: 1.5d
Declassify on: i
SECRET
The President:
I heard it all. It sounded good to me.
I like
this idea of third-party verification. That way the IRA keeps
the nominal title to their weapons, so they didn't decommission,
but they did. ~)
Prime Minister Blair:
Exactly.
kB1
I like it.
If the IRA will take it, it's a good
put the government back up as soon as
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
s,.e1
The President:
The President:
That's good.
ft
There we are.
SECRET
The President:
Anything else?
No.
(U)
).QY
The President: You can call me in the middle of the night if you
want, if this thing gets hot. You know I care deeply about it.
I will do what I can. ~
.Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
bye.
(U)
Okay.
(U)
-- End of Conversation --
SECRET
Okay,
CONFIJ;lENl'f'IAL
3363
MEMORANDUM OF TELEPHONE
~ONVERSATION
SUBJECT:
PARTLCIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
(U)
Hey, Tony.
Hello.
(U)
Hi, Bill.
I'm great.
(U)
(U)
(U)
Which one?
(U)
The President:
I can't tell.
I've only seen about five minutes.
But Herbert Long just disappeared along with a castle.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
(U)
It's funny as hell.
(U)
Anyway ...
(U)
The President:
I just wanted to put you in good humor since
you're dealing with Northern Ireland.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIDEHTlhL
The President:
The President:
+G+-
The President: Weren't they saying before -- when you and I were
talking, I had a copy of the other legislation -- weren't they
claiming that they ... ~
----~
CON"FIDENTIAL
CONFIDg~nIAL
L-~_ _-------------~
The President:
Jer
CONFIDEH1'IAL
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
Yes.
jQ1
The President:
fer
The President:
I think you're doing fine.
I'm just worried
about whether we're doing enough and how to do it.
I think
having you there and securing the airport is about what you
should be doing. You don't have enough people to venture out,
and I would hate to see you go out and be shot into fodder.
I
think we need more troops. They will be scared if the Nigerians
come in there in full force and the Indians are willing to do so.
I may want to call you again if you think there is something else
we should do.
Let me know if we can hel . ou. You've done a
good thing.
The President:
I agree with that. You keep chewing on that.
I'll get back to you on that and on the Irish thing.
~
\E.O. 13526, section 1.4(b)(d) \
CONPIDEIJ'PIAL
CONFIDENTIAL
,.=p",r=i=m=e==M=~=n=~='s=t~e=r=B=l=a=i=r:..::~_O:...:k..::.:a::::y,-,~B::..~::..1::..::..1.:..J'
The President: It's too bad the unionists won't let you kick the
can down the road a bit. If you could, the issue would become
relatively less important to both sides once things are up and
running. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
The President:
(U)
She's okay.
(U)
(U)
The President:
Good!
(U)
That's great.
Thanks.
Okay, Bill.
Bye.
(u).
(U)
-- End of Conversation
CONFIDEN'1'IAL
(U)
CONPIDEN'f'IAL
1.40
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Prime Minister Blair
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"he President:
It's different.
(U)
(U)
(U)
Yes, I did.
The President:
[gap]
He didn't promise to unilaterally reduce
below START III levels. He just promised to cut them below START
CONFIDENTIAL
CONP'IDEM'fIAL
(91
The President:
It was a great thing, but too hard. The only
problem we have in this country is that our business community
always kills legislation. Anyway, I am just so afraid that all
the benefits will be squandered if Bush wins the elections.
I
still think we have a 50 percent or better chance to win.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
It shouldn't be. White married'Protestants don't
think they should be voting for Democrats, partly because of the
gun issue that Al and I are taking on. All the specifics people
agree with. [gap] it is crazy. You can take a poll about
loopholes.
Sixty-five percent to 30 percent say yes, but even in
New York where it is more liberal than the rest of the country,
if Hillary were endorsed by this group that did the Million Mom
March, it's like 40 to 40 percent. A lot of the country likes it
when we are in, but they have a hard time admitting it. My job
approval was like 65 percent. Bush is really smart. The
campaign against McCain was the most vicious in modern memory.
He has these right wing foot soldiers do his dirty work, so he
can be nice.
I think Al had not the best couple of months, but
now he is in good form and doing well. And we have the record
and the people.
I think he'll do fine in debates, but I still
think he has a better than 50 percent chance of winning this
thing.
If he doesn't, then you will have to do a lot of heavy
lifting.
I think Al is sort of where I am on this stuff. Of
course, if Bush wins, whatever I do with Putin, they can reverse.
If we just came out and said we are not going to do this now and
we are not going to do it until we have technology everybody buys
into and believes in, but we have to do research -- if I did
that, all I would do is make Al vulnerable. There is an article
by Hugo somebody in one of your papers, saying he thought we were
nuts. ....(.et"
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Hugo Young?
j1
yn
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
It would be a good thing if national missile
defense worked on a broader basis.
If it gives people the
impression that it would work, people would believe that we could
use the thirig and they would be less likely to attack. But
you've got to figure out if you deploy and if you got beyond the
second phase and it could stop 50 or 60 warheads, what position ..
would that put the Chinese in.
I don't think a lot of people say
let's go full tilt on this thing. The goal ought to be to get
rid of these damn offensive weapons and direct our energies
toward that.
In the meantime, we must not do anything in the
interim to increase the chances these weapons would be used.
j1
The President: The main thing is, the United States should take
a position that we have got to do this in the context of our
larger objectives.
I am working with Al in an effort to preserve
the arms control regime.
If we could do it, it would be good.
The problem I have with the Republican approach is they would
deploy this big Star Wars in the sky system and an adversary can
get under it if they want. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
L I_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
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Yes.
(~
The President:
I hope so.
I would still like to come over
there. Now that we have the Northern Irelaqd government back up,
maybe I can go by Ireland again.
yeJ
CONFIDENTIAL
COHFIDENTI."lL
The President:
I didn't want to go until it makes sense all
around in terms of the peace process and your schedule. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
arranged. J.G-r
The President:
I want to see your baby.
babies, you know.
(U)
+c+The President:
I depart the Uni ted States on Monday.. I have an
EU thing in Portugal, then on to Russia, and then a brief stop in
the Ukraine.
I go to Portugal, Berlin, Russia, Ukraine, and then
home.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
(U)
It is a
The President: Yes. All right, tell Cherie hello.
great day for you. The way you keep everybody talking is amazing
to me.
~
Prime Minister Blair: Occasionally it is amazing to me, too.
One day at a time.
~
The President:
(U)
(Ul
End of Conversation
CONFIDENTIAL
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CONFIDENTIAL
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Prime Minister Blair
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Hello, Tony?
Hi, Bill.
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The President:
Really?
(U)
CONFIDENTIAL
CONFIDBlffIAL
Right.
(u)
The President:
Why don't we talk a little and see if there is
any reasonable prospect.
If I could just get either one of
these things resolved.
They are killing me on the FSC and the
other thing.
They know, or at least I know, you tried to help
us on both of these things.
I just can'.t let them shut the
thing down on me. JR1'
Prime Minister Blair: /
L -__________
~------------------------------~/
The President:
There might be.
don't we talk again tomorrow.
Prime Minister Blair:
Je1
Why
Okay.
CONFIJ;;BNTIAL
@OHFIDBHTIAL
The President:
So when we tried to run it by them that you were
trying to help us, they said how can that be, this Anglo-Irish
company is the main beneficiary? Normally I do what I want but
Congress has a big oar in the water.
(gap)
Why don't you talk"
to your folks, and I'll talk to you tomorrow.
Maybe it will be
alright to call Lott, what the hell.
This has been dragging on
so long.
(gap) about as long as I can, and I can't run the risk
they would use that as a pretext against something as profoundly
important as China. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Okay,
The President:
I think that is quite possible.
I know the heat
they are getting, and I know where it is coming from.
But it
might be helpful, if we could have any indication we could get
that or the FSC thing resolved. Both are hanging out there
feeding on each other. And, in the Senate, it is not totally
confined to the Republicans either.
ye1
Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Okay, so I get to see your baby?
will see you tomorrow.
(U)
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIDENTIAL
Alright, I
(U)
..
..:
.;- .
SECRET
TH E WH ITE HOUSE
WASHINGTON
l.4L--
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Rob Hargis, Tina Yarmchuk, Kurt
Van der Walde, and Don Cheramie
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE
The President:
Hello?
(U)
Hello .Bill?
Hey, Tony.
(U)
(U)
We had two
SECRET
The President:
Let me te
you w at my pans are.
I'm In
New Yor , we Just celebrated our 25 th anniversary. What a
romantic background.
I'm on my way back to the off;Lce.
It will
take about 2 hours.
I will call you back when I get there.
I've tried to put something concrete together for two days.
I '11 get back to you when I get to. Washington. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
Biarritz.
The President:
t
The President:
I will.
Right now what we need is a nonjudgmental break. For God's sake, let's get past this and start
talking.
I'll know more later.
~
Prime Minister Blair:
).e1
SECRET
(U)
The President:
Bye.
+er
Bye.
End of Conversation
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Robert Hargis, Don Cheramie,
Tina Yarmchuk, Kurt Van der Walde, and Dick
Norland
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
Hi Bill.
(U)
to work on the
SECRBT
SECREI
3ECRE'f
. SECRET
SECRE'F
SECRET
i.
The presirjent:Okay.
Good-bye.
Bye.
(U)
(U)
End of Conversation
i3BCRBT
eONFIDEN'fIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Jenny McGee, Rob Hargis, Dianne
Ruschaupt, Jill Sandler and Dick Norland,
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE
The President:
Hello?
CU)
Hi, Bill.
(U)
Fine.
(U)
The Pre.sident:
She did great. And it looks tome like Al' s got
the votes, but we don't know if theY'll get counted. --+er
Prime Minister Blair:
+et
The President:
I don't know. They still have to count
5,000 overseas ballots.
It's a very confusing situation. There
was an illegal ballot in Florida, where they use a punch card
system. The Bush people are trying to bully him.
Some votes
went to Buchanan and there are 19,000 ballots for him that were
disqualified, and they were African-Americans. Usually, you'd
just say "tough," but here you've got a situation where Gore won
the popular vote. He picked up five points in five days and
also pulled out a huge minority vote, I just hope he can pull it
out. Last night we had former Presidents Ford, Bush, Carter, and
Lyndon Johnson's widow, and we all made reassuring sounds to the
public. --tel
CONFIDENtpIAL
Classified by:
Robert A. Bradtke
Reason: 1.5 ($1)
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Declassify On:
11~mO~"-"..
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CGUFI8EH'fIAL
Hillary was
The President: Yeah, she was the "Little Engine That Could."
I
wish you were with me, I'm playing golf. The three guys with me
are on the green right now.
~
Prime Minister Blair: The thing I wanted to say to you was on
Northern Ireland.
I think if you still want and are able to
come over, I think you could playa part in putting this
together. We had a bit of a breakdown, but it should not be
terminal because both sides want this to happen now. There are
certain thin s we have to do and certain thin s the re ublicans
have to do.
CGHPI8ENTIAL
COHFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
ker
The President:
The President:
here? J...e7
CONFIDEN'FIAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
)1
The President:
if I can come?
CONFIDBN'3'IAL
(U)
Wonderful.
(U)
Thank you.
(U)
Bye-bye.
(U)
(U) .
Bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
GONFIDEN'fIAL
CONFIDEN'fIAL
PARTICIPANTS:
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers: Sean Tarver, Frank Jarosinski,
Jill Sandler, Clark Lystra, Dick Norland and
Ian Bowles
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE
The President:
Hello, Tony?
(U)
Hello, Bill.
(U)
I'm fine.
I'm fine.
(U)
(U)
The President:
It was great for us.and generally for
encouraging a force for change within Vietnam. They tried to
discourage the people, but they came out in droves. Sixty
percent of the country is under thirty years old, so they are
all kids. Most of them are thinking about tomorrow and there
are not a lot of elderly people. The Chairman of the party in
Saigon was talking. up private sector activity -- he sounded like
the mayor of a big mid-western city.
It was like a chamber of
commerce speech. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
CONFIDENTIAL
That's good.
.CONFIDEN1'IAL
The President:
On the other side, the General Secretary said
first we have to get what happened in the war straight. He said
I'm glad you were against it. Your visit has helped us a lot.
Our Ambassador, Pete Peterson, was in the Hanoi Hilton for six
years.
I said we were debating the nature of the conflict, but .
let's get one thing straight: we were not friends.
Now ~hat
you have a united country, we are still having the same debate
about how much of these things are eternal questions and how you
have to join the debate. )e}
Prime Minister Blair:
returned to.?
(J27
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
I don't know. On the merits, Gore should win,
if we can re-enfranchise enough voters, but even the Florida
Supreme Court, they issued a great decision for Gore but Miami
Dade said "we can't finish by Sunday, so we are not going to do
it at all." So now they have to decide whether they can get
their own order by delaying. They don't need to have any of
this done until December 12th, but you know the Florida
Legislature is Republican. The Republican Congress is
threatening to change the law and they would throw it into the
House. But if they do that, he will be destroyed and he never
will recover. Je1
Prime Minister Blair:
jZ1
Really amazing.
jef
The President:
I think we will work it out and be all right.
It is very important to remember that the whole right wing in
America desperately wants this and they still control the
Congress. There are.other things we can talk about when I see
you because Gore carne back 4-5 percent last week and he started
running his campaign on continuing the progress of the last
CONFIDEN''fIAL
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CONFIDENTIAL
Blimey.
JGr
So here we are.
Jet
We
The President: Yes. Let's talk about that. Did our people
tell you we might be able to come over on the 12th and maybe go
to Belfast and Dublin on the 13 th 'and 14 th? ...(.G)Prime Minister Blair:
The President:
Any time.
ke1
COMFIDENIIAL
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CONFIDENTIAL
Yes.
tet
r will work
..keJ
Prime Minister Blair:
through. --+Gt-
CONFIDE~nL'l.L
That is great.
,CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
The only caveat might be if we have timing
problems because the 12th is the day all the electors are
supposed to be certified and there might be some reason I have
to wait until the next morning to come. But I went to Brunei
and Vietnam and the best I can do is show the' country that
everything is just chugging along.
If in the next week
something goes haywire, I will call you.
ker
Prime Minister Blair:
I certainly think a speech is good and my
instinct is to stay outside of London.
We can get some private
time as well.
That is my instinct. But why don't I go through
it with my folks and we will come back to you with clear
suggestions.
~
The President:
Okay.
The President:
Yes. My thought is the 12th'with you and to go
to Belfast on the 13 th . Maybe Dublin too, or on the 14th -- might
'have to allow two days in Be~fast.
If there is actually some
sort of deal cooked that you need me to bless, we might be able
to allocate a whole day to be there to work this.
I am going to
allow for that, but I think I just have to wait and see. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
I will be in a better position once I
speak to Bertie tonight and take the temperature of the people
over the weekend.
I don't want to land you in something where
you only have a half day. fer
The President:
I won't do that.
Okay.
.JR'f
( C)
Absolutely.
(..e1"
The President:
You know, first of all, thank you for helping
moderate the EU position so that we can all have agreement.
I
think you and Dutch are key for an agreement. The French and
the Germans aren't there yet.
I have to tell you where the
politics are going to be in,the United States. We have Congress
evenly divided.
We have Republicans ,acknowledging, even Bush,
CONFIDEN'fL~L
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.
,
CGNFIDENTL\L
CONFIDEN'FIAL
,COllfFIBEM'fIAL
Yes.
And Schroeder.
( e)
Prime-Minister Blair:
Exactly.
02?
The President:
Politically, he has got to be with the Arabs on
the Middle East dispute, but I told him one real problem you
have here is that it is not clear how much can be controlled in
CQNFIDi:WTI7\ 1.
tONFIDEN'PIAL
this situation.
10 .
L--;--:-_ _--;-_...-----;-_-;----II
am doing my best but yqu see what the problem is, don't 'you?
;er
Absolutely.
The President:
CONFIDRN'PIAL
that?~
Yes, I have.
I will follow
E.O.13526,section 1.4(b)(d)
and
COnFIDEN''fIAL
13526, section 1.4(b)(d)
lE.o.
11
l . . . - - -_ _ _ _ _
----'I
The President:
It is interesting. The Israelis have good
substantive policies, but the level of misunderstanding between
the two sides is pretty high. ~
Prime Minister Blair:
~------The President:
I agree with that. +G+Pr~me
Minister Blair:
We will try.
(U)
Happy as a clam.
Happy Thanksgiving,
(U)
(U)
Okay.
(U)
12
CONFIDEN'fIAL
The President:
Good-bye.
(U)
End of conversation
CONFHl~lTIAL
CONFTDE:N1'I"L
PARTICIPANTS: "
The President
Prime Minister Blair
Notetakers:
DATE, TIME
AND PLACE:
The President:
(U)
Hello?
The President:
(U)
Good.
(U)
Yes, a little.
(U)
(U)
(U)
What's that?
(gap) I know
(U)
The President: That the Sinn Fein view is that before the
election campaigns in the UK, there ought to be a deal on
demilitarization and decommissioning. They want to delay on
Patten and can't embrace it right now. They will not cooperate
directly on the Real IRA. We need to talk to them on the input
they would do.
There need to be more arrests in Omagh. Anyway,
all they said was that they couldn't do more.
Seamus Mallon is
in a particular situation, you know, and the problem is that he
says he will not agree yet on a police force.
He may agree on
one if arrests are made or something and if we find out more we
will tell you, but I think you have to flush them out.
I will
CONFIDE}lTI."tL
---. ,
CONFIDENTIAL
The President:
The President:
OK.
~/
The President:
CONFIDEN'fI.".L
)Z'5
CO~JFIDEN'fIM:.
(91
The President:
OK.
Good-bye.
Good-bye.
(U)
End of Conversation
CONFIDEUnAL i