UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION

2030 Southwest 145th Avenue

Miramar, Florida 33027

File Number:

282A-MM-6740884

Typist Name:

Eileen T. Houghton

Name of Document File:

6740884_101815_0750_RAJA-Walk-thru

Date of Recording:

October 18, 2015

Time of Recording:

7:50 A.M.

Type of Recording:

Video

Participants:

NR KS CK LF TW TG DP:
KT:
UF:

Abbreviations:

Officer Nouman Raja, Palm Beach Gardens Police

Detective Kenny Smith, Palm Beach Sheriffs Dpt
Sergeant Chris Karpinski, Palm Beach Sheriffs Dpt
Lawrence Fagan, PBA Attorney for Raja
Tom Wills, State Attorneys Office
Todd Grossman, Internal Affairs, Palm Beach
Gardens Police Department
Detective Pfeifle
Keith Thomas, Crime Scene Videographer
Unknown Female/police crime scene employee

[UI] - Unintelligible
[OV] Overlapping voices

[PH] - Phonetic
[SC] - Simultaneous talk

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

[Note: Video starts with a view of the Palm Beach County Sheriffs Office large van in
the parking lot with participants of interview CK is UI briefly radio transmission
heard]
KT:

Okay gentlemen.

CK:

Do you know how to park this thing [UI] truck?

[brief UI conversation]

CK:

Excuse me.
[No time stamp on video program time stamp states 12 seconds in video - CK moves
away from conversation no conversations occurring all participants in view
standing in parking lot CK returns to interview area]

CK:

Were recording.

KS:

[UI]. [to CK] I dont, but Ill get it during this. You ready?

CK:

Yes, sir.

KS:

[laughs] Alright, my name is Detective Kenny Smith, ID 6655. Im a Detective with the
Palm Beach County Sheriffs Office Violent Crimes Division. Todays date is October
18, 2015. The approximate time is 07:50 hours. We are currently in the area of 4300
PGA Boulevard, on the I-95 southbound off-ramp onto PGA Boulevard. Im presently
investigating an officer-involved shooting. The incident occurred at approximately 03,
[UI] 0315 hours on todays date, 10/18/2015. The event under investigation took place in
and around our current location. These circumstances are being documented under
PBSO Case Number 15-133920. Its also being investigated under Palm Beach Gardens
Case Number 15-005522. Present with me are the following officials: Witness Officer
is, can you state your full name and your ID with ---

NR:

Yes.

KS:

--- Palm Beach Gardens?

NR:

Officer Nouman Raja, R-A-J-A, ID Number 438, Palm Beach --2

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

Uh-huh.

NR:

--- Gardens P.D.

KS:

And can you also spell your first name?

NR:

Nouman, N-O-U-M-A-N.

KS:

Alrighty. And representing the State Attorneys Office is Tom Wills.

TW:

[shakes head yes]

KS:

And you dont have an ID Number I dont believe. Legal counsel is?

LF:

Lawrence Fagan, PBA Counsel on behalf of Officer Raja.

KS:

Okay, and also present from Palm Beach Gardens Internal Affairs is.

TG:

Uh, Todd Grossman.

KS:

Todd Grossman?

TG:

Yeah, G-R-O-S-S-M-A-N.

KS:

Awesome. And other investigators are gonna be Sergeant Karpinsky, K-A-R-P-I-N-S-KI, ID 6682. And also Detective Pfeifle, P-F-E-I-F-L-E, and ID Number?

DP:

9585.

KS:

9585. Crime Scene Videographer is Keith Thomas. I have no idea what your ID Number
is, Keith, but youre back there. [pause] Okay, at my request, Officer Raja has agreed to
provide a sworn videotaped recorded description of his recollections and actions
regarding this criminal investigation. Officer Raja, have you had the opportunity to
speak privately with legal counsel, Mr. Fagan?

NR:

Yes, Ive had.

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

Okay. Officer Raja, are you aware that a represent-, representative from the Internal
Affairs Division will be monitoring this re-enactment, and this is not a, considered a
garrity-compelled statement.

NR:

Yes.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

I understand.

KS:

Officer Raja, are you aware this is a voluntary procedure, and that you may decline to
continue at any time?

NR:

Yes, I do.

KS:

Okay. Do you feel as though you are emotionally prepared to provide an accurate reenactment?

NR:

Mmm, I believe so.

KS:

Okay. Do you have any questions about the re-enactment procedure before we begin?

NR:

[looking at LF] N---

LF:

[to NR] No.

NR:

--- no, no, no.

KS:

Everything good?

NR:

Yes, sir.
[background traffic/engine noises heard]

KS:

Okay.
[background traffic/engine noises continue]

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

Im gonna wait one second [due to background noises]. Okay. Having all this in mind,
do you wish to proceed with the re-enactment?

NR:

Yes, I do.

KS:

Okay. Do you swear or affirm [NR raises his right hand] that the evidence you are about
to provide will be the truth, the entire truth, and nothing but the truth?

NR:

I do.

KS:

Okay. What I want you to do is I want you to go into as great as detail as you can ---

NR:

Okay.

KS:

--- why you are here, how you came about this, but first I just have a few preliminary
questions.

NR:

Sure.

KS:

You currently work for the Palm Beach County Police Department?

NR:

Yes sir, I do.

KS:

How long have you worked for them?

NR:

Uh, since April of 2015.

KS:

April of 2015?

NR:

Yes, sir.

KS:

Any previous law enforcement before that?

NR:

Yes, sir, I was a Sergeant with Atlantis Police Department, ---

KS:

Okay.

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

--- and I started in Atlantis, I think, 2007, and I came, uh, I just wanted more uh, once I
topped out there, I wanted more.

KS:

Okay. What are your current duty assignments here with Palm Beach Gardens?

NR:

Im currently assigned to road patrol on the midnight shift, late night, uh, 7:30 P, uh 1930
to 0630.

KS:

Was that your shift uh.

LF:

[to NR] Well, would you keep your voice up, I cant hear you.

NR:

Okay, sorry.

KS:

Was that your shift that you were working last night also?

NR:

Yes, last night was my Friday. We work four day on, four day off schedule. Last night
was my last day on.

KS:

Okay. Um, what do you normally wear in your duties?

NR:

On a normal days, uh, we, a full uniform with a badge and a name tag. And for the last,
uh, since September 30th or so, weve had a lot of RICO burglaries in our area and
everything, and we were getting hit with them a lot. So starting last week we started with
this, we were setting up decoy cars, and at midnight Im uh, Alpha1 cover shift. So
basically I have beat 1, which is far out west and theres not really that much happens. So
they also use me as a cover unit if, go on 94 here, and go pick this call up and everything.
So since I dont n-, in my beat theres only PGA National and Marisol, the two
communities, so at midnight I would go set up the decoy cars and everything like that. I
would dress down in street clothes, and Ive been doing this for the last four nights. And
I would either take this van, or we have a gold Crown Victoria [camera swings to the
right to view van] unmarked, and I would take that and basically drive around, uh,
residential neighborhoods and everything with blacked-out, you know, windows down
and seeing if I, see if we see any, uh, burglaries occurring.

KS:

Okay. Did you have anything on you this evening after you dressed down, um, showing
that youre a police officer?

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Yes.

KS:

Did you have a badge or anything with you?

NR:

Uh, in-, inside, and first of all, uh, I always uh, have my wallet badge with me. [NR pulls
his wallet out from his back jeans pocket]

KS:

Alright.

NR:

With the uh, police ID, which is per policy. Uh, and on top of that, inside my van, I had
my tactical vest with had Police on the front, Police on the back, my name actually
stitched onto the vest, Officer Raja. And I had my duty holster with me inside the thing.
And the whole thing was uh, tonight specifically while I was in the van was, at the start
of our rotation at the, in our line-up we were told that the nightclub down, right down the
road on PGA and RC is called Lux, and across the road is Downtown at the Gardens is
Dirty Martini.

CK:

Lust?

NR:

Lux. L-U-X.

KS:

Lux.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

They were having a hip-hop concert tonight that there was supposed to be a huge crowd
gathering tonight, so we decided to, if you open the back of the van up, youll see eight
riot shields, this and that gear, the loud speaker, crime scene tape, and uh, sticks, uh, you
know. And our thing was this. Hey, if anything happens, if, you know if, if that uh, if
theres a big incident at Lux, if theres a big fight and we need to clear the crowd, were
gonna forget about the 21, and report with the van immediately to Lux, so officers have
quick access to it. And uh, so, and number two thing that was also was discussed was
this. While Im in street clothes, while Im in this, I do not do any takedowns. I do not do
anything, but just in case of emergency and something happens, you know, thats why I
have the vest and everything identifying on me. Im supposed to call the road unit to
come out to handle any situation.

KS:

Okay. Um, just to go back --7

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Mmm-hmmm.

KS:

--- kinda quick, for other people that arent police officers, ---

NR:

Yes, Im sorry.

KS:

--- if you would, just in the future, stop using the signal codes and stuff, cause somebody
may not understand it, so.

NR:

Okay, I wont.

KS:

We use 94, which we know is back up, and ---

NR:

Yeah.

KS:

--- 21, which is burglaries.

NR:

Yes.

KS:

So, if, if you can just use plain talk ---

NR:

Okay, no problem.

KS:

--- for the future just in case cause some of the non-police officers may not understand
what you were talking about ---

NR:

Okay.

KS:

--- at that point. Um. [to CK] You satisfied with that, or you wanna go into the reenactment or?

CK:

[to NR] You, you said, uh, youre supposed to call the backup during situations. What
situations are you ---

NR:

Like, ---

CK:

--- supposed to call backup for?

8

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

--- like, for example, if Im in one of the residential neighborhoods and I see a burglary
occurring or something like that, or a suspicious vehicle or suspicious person. To call a
marked unit to give em my position where Im at and tell em hey, this is where this
person is, too. And then once a marked unit comes out there, and makes an initial stop,
comes in contact, you know, Ill throw my vest on if I need to and everything like that
and then go ahead and make contact with em.

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

And uh, what, who, is there a person in charge of the tactical operation if you will?

NR:

Uh, it was a lil---

CK:

Like that operation?

NR:

--- it wasnt really a tactical operation. It was just decided just amongst our, the early
shift and late shift. So, uh, Sergeant Anderson, Sergeant Stragg, and Sergeant Garcia,
who wasnt here tonight, are all aware of this, and they were monitoring. And one of the
things was, I actually bring my laptop with our GPS unit everywhere. So one of the
things was lets, hey so you guys know exactly where Im sitting, watching what area and
everything. And every time I was doing this, I was, I would go to my laptop, log it in,
hey, Im over here, and I would write in my notes that, uh, white undercover van or the
gold Crown Victoria, this is where Im at doing this.

CK:

Okay. So when this operation began, ---

NR:

Yes.

CK:

--- did your whole shift sit down and uh, the Sergeants go over what the plan was, what
youre to do, stuff like that?

NR:

E-, e-, exactly. We, we, ---

CK:

And all these rules that youre saying?

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

--- we verbally discussed everything, absolutely.

CK:

Okay. Okay.

NR:

It was a verbal agreement.

KS:

And also you said you got your GPS in your laptop.

NR:

Yes.

KS:

So does everybody have access to wherever ---

NR:

Yep.

KS:

--- you are through GPS on their laptops so [UI]?

NR:

Every single, every single officer, ---

KS:

Okay.

NR:

--- every single Sergeant and dispatch has a huge screen, and dispatch that has the GPS
charts shows exactly where every unit is. So if something happens, if Im in my car, I
cant get the radio, I can always say, find my GPS location. Thats an officer safety.

CK:

And its in this van now?

NR:

Its in this van right now.

CK:

And its on?

NR:

Its on right now. My laptops in there, too. I actually have my, uh, one of, I, I, I took
like two or three T-shirts just in case somebody walked past, so, you know, I threw one
on top of the laptop. I threw one on top of the police vest, so you cant see ---

CK:

Right.

NR:

--- the police stuff and things like that.

10

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

Okay. Okay.

KS:

[to CK] You ready?

CK:

[to KS] Yes, sir.

KS:

Okay, now, what Id like you to do is go into what happened this evening? Start as far
back as have to.

NR:

Okay.

KS:

Try to go into as much detail as you can.

NR:

Okay.

KS:

If you need to stop, stop. If you need a break, tell us, and let us know. Okay, and then
try to be as elaborate as you can with ---

NR:

Okay.

KS:

--- what happened, how it happened, why it happened, and what, and what not.

NR:

Absolutely.

KS:

Okay?
[00:37:45 [time stamp on video]

NR:

Uh, well tonight at, uh, I couldnt really start uh, this oper-, operation if you wanna call it,
till midnight because I was actually a back-up officer on a domestic call in Evergreen.
And the second I cleared the domestic call as the back-up officer, I, uh, went to the
station, changed out and everything and threw, and got into the van and had the van
prepped and everything like that. And I sent, uh, Sergeant Anderson a message, cause
one of the things was we had uh, we were assuming that these people that were doing a
lot of the burglaries are coming from, uh, the Jupiter area from, uh, the Heights. And
weve checked, uh, and weve seen a couple of these suspicious people that weve, you
know, checked out with before and everything like that, walking south on Military,
walking south on Central. So I started my day with, I started on PGA. I went down
11

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

Military all the way down to Hood Road. I went into, uh, Donald Ross Village, drove
around there, and then came down Central, down PGA. And then I came back here and
went to the gas station and got myself a drink and some snacks, which are still inside the
van. And I started to hit, uh, do the communities. And I was, as I was doing this, I was
sending messages to Sergeant Anderson on the laptop, hey, Im going to this community,
this community, this is what I just did, this is what I just did, so hes aware of the whole,
so the, the, the chain of commands going, --KS:

Yeah.

NR:

--- so hes aware of my, uh, location at all times. Uh, I did the first community was uh,
The Isles. I did The Isles and I was about to go into Evergreen, which is on Hood and uh,
uh, Military, on the, uh, on the northeast corner. Uh, and I was just about to go there and
everything, and I remember that one of the, two units responded to a domestic
disturbance at The Marriott and the Lux Club is located on the first floor of The Marriott.
They responded to like on the fifth floor or something like that, to a domestic disturbance
that was pretty heated. And uh s-, uh, Sergeant Anderson went there, too. And, uh,
Sergeant Anderson was there. I remember him calling on the radio, Hey, we have a
disturbance going on downstairs in Lux in the night club. Have officers respond. So, I,
you kept on hearing, uh, different officers res-, I had the radio on like officers, Im on the
way, Im on the way. So in my mind Im like, okay, this might be that call that you
know, it, it just might break loose. So let me s-, take the van, get out of where I was and,
and start heading down in this direction to be close to it just in case, if you know,
something broke I have the riot gear and everything like that that we discussed about. So
I turn on Military, from Military to PGA and I was going eastbound on PGA, and as I
was coming here and everything, I saw this vehicle stopped here. Didnt see anybody
inside, nothing. [camera pans to the right to show a vehicle next to the white van] And I
called out, uh, I believe on the radio, and I said that Ive got uh, uh, I thought it was a
disabled vehicle on the side of the road, or an abandoned vehicle. So, I saw this vehicle
and everything, and I was like, okay, Ive got this vehicle on the side of the road, and you
know, Im gonna check out with it and make sure everythings okay. And, you know,
when I drove past it, there was no, I could not see anything, any occupants inside the
vehicle. Or if I ---

CK:

You mean, you drove past it which way?

NR:

Eastbound.

12

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

Eastbound. [pointing to his left] So I went down to the next light right there, I made a Uturn, came in here, and I was, as I was coming out I was like, you know, its like alright,
its just an abandoned vehicle. This is the on-ramp. Im just gonna pull in front of it like
this and park in front and put my flashers on and give dispatch the tag to see if I can see
the owner. Maybe they walked to the gas station, or have it towed.
Do what we need to do. But, you know, its like and, and this is where I, I, like, like I,
Im kinda like kicking myself in the ass like, you know, its like thinking about hindsight.
Its like on, you know, golden rule, its like, you know, always act like a vehicles always
occupied. Never take that chance of like, you know, this vehicle not being unoccupied.
If I knew the vehicle was occupied, I would never put myself in a fatal frontal situation
like this by pulling in front of it. [camera pans to the right with car and van in view] And
I didnt think there was anybody in there. And as I got close to the vehicle, and uh, the
door swung open and, uh, this guy jumps outside immediately. He got out of the van and
then hes like, Im okay, Im okay, man. And at which point I said, Hey, man, police,
can I help you? And the second I said police, he jumped back and I clearly remember
him drawing and dont, pointing a gun at me. I saw that silver muzzle, and he had, I can
swear on this, he had a Laser Max laser and the guide rod on the gun, and I saw that red
light, with that Laser Max flashing at me. And I immediately just shouted, Drop the
gun, and [sighs] Im sorry. Thats like.

CK:

Thats ---

LF:

Yep, yep.

CK:

--- take a deep, take a deep breath. Lets do this.

NR:

Mmmm-hmm.

CK:

Okay? Do you need a drink?

NR:

No, no, no, Im, Im [UI].

CK:

Do you need, okay? Listen, I want you to take your time. I want you to be okay. Listen,
[to KS] uh, why dont we walk over here.

KS:

Can you go over here --13

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Yeah, yeah.

KS:

--- and show us where you were when this happened?

CK:

[UI].

NR:

Ab-, ab-, absolutely.

[00:33:22 00:33:14 [time stamp on video] - all walk towards the van and other
vehicle still in the street]

KS:

And when you got out of the van, ---

NR:

I, uh.

KS:

--- which way did you go?

NR:

Right here. [standing in front of the van] I came right here.

CK:

Hold on one second.

KS:

Yeah.

CK:

Come back here.

NR:

Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

KS:

Yes sir, come back here.

NR:

[walking back towards the open van door]

KS:

[to CK] Go ahead.

CK:

[UI].

KS:

Now when you got out of the van, which way did you go?

14

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

In front. This is just like how it was.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

Do.

KS:

Yeah, uh, ---

NR:

Oh, okay.

KS:

--- go ahead and.

NR:

I immediately jumped out and I came right here. [moves around the driver door to the
front of the van] And at that point, I didnt, I didnt have uh, what I had on me, the only
thing I had on me, because I was, uh, in plain, like my gun was still inside, my duty gun.
My vest was inside. And the only thing I had was my backup gun, my, uh, departmentapproved backup gun in, uh, in a waistband holster inside with the shirt tucked in like
this, and I said, and I immediately said, Hey, man, police, can I help you? And at
which point thats when he jumped back and I saw him draw the gun right at me right
after I said the word police, and it was just like fuck. And it was just I, I, I kinda got like
caught with my pants down at that point. And it just immediately its like uh, I
apologize. [NR becomes emotional] Its just like, you know, your family flashed in front
of you, your kids flashed in front of you, and youre just like fuck, and its just, and just
immediately I do that. I was like, Drop the gun! Drop the gun! And he, and he didnt,
he was right there. And I remember pulling the trigger, I think two to three times, and he
started running. And as he was running, I had my cell phone and I dialed and I still
remember putting my code in, and just like this, I had the gun and Im keeping an eye on
this guy. And I put my code in and dialed 9-1-1, and I called dispatch right, cause my
radio was in the van. And the whole time Im like giving him commands. Im yelling
and screaming at the top, Im like, Drop the gun! Drop the gun! Drop the gun! And as
hes running, he gets about like right just a little past where the guard rail starts, and hes,
he does this number. And I see his whole body spin, and I saw like a flash, a silver flash,
it was like a metallic flash come at me, and in my head I immediately fuckin said, aim,
aim! And I was like aim! And I was like, and I picked that front side right in the center
mass and I just pulled the trigger three times and I saw him drop, and I saw something
silver fall. And, at which when I was still on the phone with dispatch, dispatch was like,
Get your radio, get your radio. And I just held what I had right there, I couldnt really
see where he dropped, what happened, if he moved or anything. And Im like, I dont
15

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

see him, I dont have a visual on him, I dont have a visual, and I started to walk
backwards and everything, and came back to the van, grabbed my radio, grabbed
everything and called out on the radio. And that happened, and Sergeant Spragg was the
first one and I cant remember if it was one of the Taurus, new Taurus were responding.
And they actually thought it happened in Double Tree. And I got on the radio and its
like, Guys, Im right here, Im right here, and they quickly turned in right here, and uh,
it was Arlotta, Niko Arlotta [PH]. And Arlotta had his rifle slung up and Spragg, I think,
Im like, Guys, I lost sight of him right there.
CK:

Well do me, do me a favor.

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

I want, I want, this is for you, ---

NR:

Im sorry.

CK:

--- uh, just take a deep breath, okay?

NR:

Im just, uh.

CK:

Cause Im, Im having trouble. Youre, youre a fast talker.

NR:

Yeah, Im just.

CK:

And youre explaining everything. I wanna be able to understand and make sure
everyones good. But I wanna also give you a break to try and get some oxygen in you.

KS:

Yeah. [laughs]

NR:

Im, Im sorry, its just the, the whole kids ---

KS:

Thats fine.

NR:

--- thing that gets to me.

CK:

No, okay.

16

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

Absolutely.

CK:

Thats, thats perfect. Uh. [to KS] Did you have a question?

KS:

I do. I do.

NR:

Yes.

KS:

Now while you were goin through this, at any time did that individual fire at you? Did,
do you know if the gun went off?

NR:

[sighs] I dont, uh, honestly. I, I was screaming at the top of my lungs. I was screaming
drop the, and the only thing I can think of was like, like, Im saying Drop the gun. I
announced myself as the police. Why the fuck is this guy pointing a gun at me? What
the f-, like. It was just.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

I dont know if he fired a round at me. I dont remember.

KS:

Okay. Um. At any point, did you have any contact with that individual? Any kind of
personal contact did you?

NR:

No, no, no.

KS:

When you were walkin up?

NR:

No as, uh, again, like he jumped up and he said, Hey, Im okay, and I said, and I came
out I said, I said, my exact words were like, and [UI] was speaking a lot, Im like, Im
like, Hey, man, police, can I help you? And immediately he, and he does a step back
and kinda like, well, and just draws the gun and uh, basically as youre standing right
here, do you mind if I? [pointing in direction behind him]

KS:

Yeah, absolutely. Where was, uh.

CK:

[in distance] Well, hold on one second ---

KS:

No, no, no.

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File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

--- I gotta come close.

NR:

Sure, sure.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

You said you got out of the van here. You had ---

NR:

Im-, immediately.

CK:

--- indicated earlier you put your flashers on? You said something about putting your
flashers on?

NR:

No, no, that, my game plan, my game plan, as I was coming from PGA ---

CK:

Okay.

NR:

--- was this, I thought it was a disabled vehicle, so I was gonna pull in front of the van ---

CK:

Okay.

NR:

--- in, in front of that, see, and put my flashers on, walk out and, you know, see whats
goin on, and call out the tag and call a tens-, uh, or call a tow truck ---

CK:

Okay.

NR:

--- if I needed to get the, the vehicle removed. I thought it was a broke down vehicle.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

There was nobody in it.

CK:

Okay. And is there a reason why you stopped here instead of pulling up ---

KS:

Yeah.

CK:

--- in front of the disabled?

18

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Cause the guy jumped, the guy jumped out.

CK:

He jumped out his.

NR:

Exactly, uh.

CK:

While you were in the car, he jumped out?

NR:

He jumped out, and I immediately jumped out, too.

CK:

Okay. Um. You were dressed exactly like this?

NR:

Exactly.

CK:

Nothing more, nothing less?

NR:

Exactly.

KS:

[OV] [UI].

NR:

Exactly.

CK:

Except for the radio mike?

NR:

Exactly like this, and I had my holster which was covered.

CK:

Was your ho-, it was covered?

NR:

It was covered, it wasnt out.

CK:

When you have your gun in your waistband, does, is, is it obvious that youre carrying a
gun?

NR:

No [UI]. [shaking his head no] Mmm-hmm.

CK:

Theres no big bulge like.

19

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Mmm-hmm. Theres, I have, I have a big stomach so it kinda overhangs over the holster.
[laughs]

CK:

I got you [UI].

KS:

Were you wearing that same hat?

NR:

Ex-, exactly, ---

KS:

Okay.

NR:

--- just like this.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

--- just like this.

CK:

Okay. And you said you started firing. Was that around this area?

NR:

Uh. [turn around] I, I believe I, uh, uh, uh [sighs] [walking towards victims car] Im
trying to think, its like, I, I remember he came out, I said, Drop, ---

KS:

[coughs] Mmm-hmm.

NR:

--- drop. I, it m-.

LF:

But I cant hear you.

KS:

Yeah, but hold on.

NR:

Im, Im sorry, Im, uh, Im thinking, and I, I, I c-, I know if, I, I know when he had the
gun pointed at me around the car and everything, I fired, I know that, I. [sighs]

KS:

Do you remember exactly where he was at when he, he.

NR:

[points straight ahead]

KS:

And let me go back. You said that you got out, you jumped out, --20

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Yes.

KS:

--- and you came around here.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

KS:

When did the gun come into play, and where did it come from?

NR:

See, he jumped out immediately and said, Im okay, man. Uh, he said, Im okay, Im
okay, and I said, Hey, man, police, can I help? Can I help you? And second, I said,
uh, I, I remember. [walking to drivers door of victims car]

KS:

Please dont touch anything.

CK:

[UI] yeah, dont touch.

NR:

Yeah [UI] exactly, Im not touching anything.

KS:

You can go near it, just dont touch.

NR:

No. The, I remember clearly seeing this, the gun was right here. I remember seeing it
above the door level, and it was in this area right here pointing at my, directly at me. And
I remember seeing, it was a silver gun. I could clearly see the hole of the muzzle, and I
could see that Laser Max laser in the guide rod flickering. [makes noises] It was like
flickers red, uh, red, on and off, on and off.

KS:

Okay. [pause] So, he was in this area right here? [pointing to drivers seat area]

NR:

Yeah, yeah, he was in this vicinity, ---

KS:

Uh-huh.

NR:

--- somewhere in this vicinity.

CK:

Okay. Do you want to [handing NR a small red cone], why dont you ---

NR:

Oh. [takes red cone]

21

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

Okay.

CK:

--- do you recall where you were standing? I know you had some difficulty. Do you
know approximately where?

NR:

[Pointing] Somewhere in, in, in this vicinity somewhere. I dont recall exactly where.

CK:

Okay. Why dont you do this. Somewhere between where and where.

NR:

[sighs] [walking towards white van] Uh, let me see.

[00:26:27 00:26:22 [time stamp on video] NR retracing steps]

NR:

I. [sighs]
[00:26:21 00:26:17 [time stamp on video] NR continues retracing steps]

NR:

I totally.
[00:26:17 00:26:12 [time stamp on video] NR continues retracing steps]

NR:

If, if I, uh, if I had to say something I would probably say about like in the, in the, in this
region right here. [NR pointing to area between victims car and white van] This would
be, this would.

CK:

Well, I dont want you to have to say anything, thats why I asked you ---

NR:

Uh-huh, uh, exactly.

CK:

--- approximate, so.

NR:

I, I, I, I g-.

CK:

If youre safe saying where your attorney is standing [LF standing at front of victim car],
and somewhere between there ---

NR:

It, it, it, its --22

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

--- and somewhere, you just let me know.

NR:

--- it, its somewhere in this area ---

CK:

Okay.

NR:

--- right here.

CK:

Put this at the western boundary of any possibility of where you were standing.

NR:

[placing pink cone on ground in front of him] Okay, Im gonna put it about here, about
here, lets say.

CK:

[handing NR another pink cone] And put this at the eastern.

KS:

Eastern.

CK:

And take your time and arrange em how you want.

NR:

Okay.
[00:25:43 00:25:37 [time stamp on video] NR retracing steps with pink cone in
his hand]

NR:

See, Im, I know I never went that far.

[00:25:35 00:25:31 [time stamp on video] NR continues retracing area]

NR:

Im gonna probably say about here. [NR places pink cone down on the ground]

KS:

Mmm-hmmm.

CK:

Okay, so somewhere between Number 1 and Number 2 ---

NR:

Yes.

CK:

--- its safe to say this is where you, --23

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

--- uh.

KS:

And thats when you initially came into engagement?

NR:

Well, like verbal engagement or actually [UI]?

KS:

Well, you had spoke to him, when, when did you specifically see the threat?

NR:

Right around this area. When, when, uh, because as it was happening, uh, and I turned
around, and I was in this area when I said, Hey, man, police, how can I help you? And
I said that clearly, and when I said that and he immediately just jumped, and I just, I, I
remember this action right here [NR re-enacting extended arm of victim], and I remember
seeing that fuckin muzzle that handgun on me.

CK:

Okay. [pause] Then what happened ---

NR:

Okay, and.

CK:

--- after that?

NR:

Th-, and then he started running in this direction [NR extends his right arm straight
ahead] right here, just as you could, at like, like.

KS:

Which, which side of the guard rail?

NR:

On the western side of the guard rail.

KS:

So hes in the grass.

NR:

On, on to the grass, on the grass, yes.

KS:

Okay.
[Note: NR, CK, KS, LF and others at the scene start to walk towards the back of the
victims car]
24

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

He started running on the grass and [pause] and if Im thinking, and I start, and this is
where I grabbed my phone and I started running after him with my gun still pointing in
his direction screaming, and I was calling 9-1-1 and I was yelling. It was like, Drop the
gun. Drop the gun, drop the gun. And, uh, I was screaming at the top of my lungs.

KS:

What was he doing at that point?

NR:

He was running, and right when he got about, uh, I think it was.
[Note: NR, CK, KS, LF and others are walking with NR as NR describes the events of
the shooting]

NR:

Cause this is where I started to walk. I, I remember I was around that area by that pole
when I decided to walk back to get my radio again, cause Dispatch was like, Go get
your radio, Raj, go get your radio. And [NR continues walking] [sighs] I.

KS:

Just be careful right here, too.

NR:

[NR swerve to avoid yellow cones on ground] Oh, oh, Im sorry, Im sorry.

KS:

Yeah.

NR:

And I remember over here is where I was, and he must have been [pause], uh, do you see
this plant right here? [NR pointing to plant in the distance]. This, this big bush?

KS:

The, the big clump?

NR:

Yeah, the big clump? Just where the ditch is right there in front of it, kinda like? He was
in that area and thats when he did the spin. Then I was yelling like, Drop the gun, drop
the gun. And I saw him go like this [NR pulls his right arm up]. And, and I remember
saying to myself, aim, I still remember, and I was like aim! And I put that front site right
in the center mass and I squeezed. I, I, think, I believe, two rounds.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

And I saw him drop at which point, and when he dropped and everything, and I started
going up, and I couldnt see him. And I was like, I lost sight of him, I lost sight of him.
25

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

And theyre like, Go get your radio, go get your radio, and I started to go and I was like
just pelling back and everything. And the guys came and I was like, Look, I lost sight of
him right there. I dont know where he went to. And I think, uh, one of the officers was
up north and hes like, I think I see something up there, and this and that, so. And then
Sergeant uh, Spragg or Sergeant Anderson, one of the sergeants, he was like, Raj, come
show me exactly where was the last point you saw him. So I started walking up the
guard rail. As I started walking up, we saw him right there.
KS:

Okay. What happened after that?

NR:

Well once we saw him and everything, his l-, he was laying face down, and both his
hands were tucked underneath him. So Sergeant Anderson came to my left, he brought a
shield. He was shield c-, I was shield covered behind him, and Sergeant Spragg came to
the north side of us from the, almost at the tree, and he had a rifle out. And we said,
Okay, we need to approach to make sure that, you know, hes still not armed, and whats
goin on and everything. So we slowly approached him and everything like that. But
before that, uh, when they came, I ran to my van. I immediately put on my vest, and I
immediately clipped on my, uh, thigh holster, my duty gun. So once, uh, once we start to
approach him and everything like that, he still wasnt moving, we gave him, I, I think, I
think we gave him a couple verbal commands. He didnt respond. And Sergeant Spragg
said, Raj, go ahead and holster, hand, go hands-on with him. I holstered immediately
and they said they, theyve got cover. I grabbed one arm and pulled it out. I grabbed the
other arm and pulled it out, and then we said lets, and Sergeant Anderson or Spragg
said, Flip him and make sure hes not laying on top of the gun, and we just pulled him
back, flipped him back, and saw there was no gun visible and everything, then Sergeant
Spragg said, Okay, call Fire Rescue. Alright, its clear. And I came back here and
there was a rescue truck here, and I was covered in his blood, and I was like, Uh, can
you just get this off me. And they took like hydrogen peroxide and just started pouring
it all over me, started washing me.

CK:

All over you?

NR:

Yeah.

KS:

Mmmm-hmm.

NR:

On, on my hands and arms.

26

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

And, uh, uh, then I th-, I th-, I think then either sometime around that time and everything
like that, I remember Sergeant Mall [PH] was there, and I was like, Sarg, heres the gun
that I used right here, and I gave him the gun with the holster and the extra mag and
everything just like that, and I think he put em in his trunk.

KS:

Okay. Alright, um.

[00:21:00 00:20:52 [time stamp on video] pause in conversations]

CK:

[to KS] Can I clarify a couple things?

KS:

Go ahead.

CK:

The shirt you have on.

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

Is that the shirt you had on at the time?

NR:

Ex- exactly, just like this.

CK:

Its on inside out.

NR:

Inside out because it uh, its, its a shirt with a American flag on it. [NR pulling up each
of his short sleeves]

CK:

Okay.

NR:

And the, the night before I had a green shirt like this with an American flag, and one of
the officers were like, like that gives you away as a cop, you got a flag on your shirt, I
was like alright, theyre gonna flip it inside out.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

So I flipped it.

27

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

Um, lets talk about conditions. Right now I can see you. Theres no street lights on.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

The suns well, the sun has risen and you can see. You wanna tell me about the
conditions at 3:15.

NR:

Up front, when I was right there with him, I could see him crystal clear. But when he
started to run away from me, all I could see was a silhouette. And I could, I could see his
face, I could see this, and I could see his like body movements and stuff, like, I could. He
was wearing a black shirt, but you could, like he wasnt, like he wasnt really that dark
black-skinned. Like he was, he was, uh, like just maybe a couple of shades darker than
me, so you could make out this is where his shirt stopped, this is where his arm stopped.
And I could see him turn. And I coulda sworn I saw that, like that silver thing, like when
he turned I saw something silver in his hand turn, and thats when I was like aim, and
squeezed off a few rounds. And the whole time Im on the phone with Dispatch.

CK:

You said he pointed, he, he pulled a gun at you at his ---

NR:

Over there.

CK:

--- right outside of his door, ---

NR:

Right up, yeah.

CK:

--- or in uh, in the, uh, ---

NR:

In, in that vicinity, yeah, yeah.

CK:

--- in the [UI] whatever. And you said, you described it was what?

NR:

I saw a silver muzzle. I could clearly see the bore size hole, and underneath it where the
guide rod goes, if the handgun [UI] anything like that. He had a Laser Max laser which
blinks.

CK:

[shakes head yes]

28

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

And Im speaking this from experience because Im a firearms instructor and I, I teach
civilian, I teach at the Police Academy and everything, and I can clearly identify a
firearm when I see one, and this, this specifically when its pointed in my direction.

CK:

And you indicated, you testified that you were, youre pretty quick on the draw.

NR:

Yes.

CK:

You said you drew it out quick.

NR:

Uh, uh, I was.

CK:

Are you pretty quick with?

NR:

I, I practice like theres no.

CK:

[UI].

NR:

I practice all the time.

CK:

And he pointed his gun at you at, out there?

NR:

Out there. Exactly, he pointed, he [UI] like uh, when I said, Hey, man, police, can I help
you?, and thats when he pointed the, jumped back and pointed the gun at me and
everything, but.

CK:

Okay. Why didnt you shoot him there?

NR:

[sighs] I, I, I thought I, I shoot, shot him there. I thought I pulled the trigger.

CK:

Whats that?

NR:

I, I thought I shot him. I thought I shot at him.

CK:

When you first pulled out your gun?

NR:

Yeah. When I first pulled ---

29

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

[OV] Maybe back there.

NR:

--- out the gun, I gave him like, Drop the gun, drop the gun!

CK:

[shakes head yes]

NR:

And when he, and, and when he didnt, I think I s-, I, I believe I shot him there.

CK:

Okay. Okay. How many rounds do you think you fired in total?

NR:

Five.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

Maybe six, or five. I dont [OV] [UI].

KS:

And what kind of gun is it? What kind of weapon?

NR:

Its a Glock 27, 40 caliber.

KS:

The mini Glock?

NR:

Yeah, the mini Glock, yeah, ---

KS:

Yeah.

NR:

--- the mini Glock, yeah.

CK:

Did you, did you, when he pointed the gun at you, and you pulled your gun and you
thought you fired, could you, at any point, either there or down there, see if, uh, muzzle
flash. Youre familiar with muzzle flash?

NR:

Yes, absolutely, I.

CK:

Youre a firearms instructor?

NR:

Yes, I.

30

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

Did you ever see that come out of his gun?

NR:

I didnt s-, I didnt even see my own muzzle flash. I didnt even hear my, uh, own gun go
off. All I remember was just the motion of pulling that trigger. I didnt, I didnt even
know if I, I, I couldnt even hear my own band. I think I was just so like, Drop the gun,
drop the gun. I dont think I even heard my own gun go off.

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

Would you describe your demeanor, or I shouldnt say demeanor, ---

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

--- for lack of a term here. As police officers, we often, uh, uh, patrol with uh, kind of a
heightened sense of alertness.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

Because, ---

NR:

Yeah.

KS:

Or awareness.

CK:

--- does that make sense?

NR:

I was uh.

CK:

Do you think that youre level was, how would you describe your level of alertness when
you first saw this car, and then before he pulled the firearm out?

NR:

I, first of all, I didnt even know he was inside the car.

CK:

Right.

31

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

And, and thats, thats exactly what Im talking about. Im kicking myself in the ass and
I know hindsights 20/20. And I preach this at the Academy. Always, you know, when
you see an abandoned vehicle, when you see something like that, always treat it like
theres somebody inside cause you never know. And I go and do the cynical [UI]. Like
if I knew there was a guy inside, why the fuck, I wouldnt do something stupid like this
by pulling in front of the car like that. Cause I drove by I was, oh, theres nobody, and I
came and made the U-turn and Im watching. Theres nobody inside the car. Im like, oh
man, they probably ran out of gas and walked to the corner gas station or something like
that. So let me just pull in front of it. Ill put my flashers on and everything. Hey, call
out the tag, call out the, you know, like some broke down vehicle and everything, and see
if it needs to be towed or what, and.

CK:

So the only reason you got out there ---

NR:

Was cause he jumped out.

CK:

--- is because he jumped out?

NR:

Yeah. [laughs]

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Okay. Well.

NR:

He caught me off guard and its, again, like I, I preach that stuff and I, why not, uh.

TW:

Officer Raja, at one point ---

KS:

Yo.

TW:

--- you said that when he got out, you said, Hey, man, police. Right?

NR:

Yes.

TW:

Can I help you? At what point did he say, what or what, he said something, correct?

NR:

He said right off, the second he got out the car, I jumped out immediately. He said, Im
good, man, Im good.
32

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

TW:

Even before or after you said police?

NR:

Even, even before. That was the first words. He said, Hey, man, Im good, Im good.
And I responded with, Hey, man, police, can I help you?

KS:

Did he say anything after that?

NR:

No. That was, that, that, that, that was like the clicker, I was like wait a minute. A
normal person would be like, you know, if a normal human being was broken down and
I, I identified myself as a police officer, like wanting to, I was on the [UI] like, no, no,
Im good, Im waiting for someone to come bring the gas, or, or I called a tow truck
already or whatever the case might be. And he immediately just jumped back when I saw
that fuckin gun come at me, and at that point its like, he knows Im a cop. I identified
myself and this guys tryin to kill me and I was, and I, I didnt wanna die.

KS:

Did you have anything out that would identify yourself physically as a police officer?

NR:

I didnt even get a chance to even grab my wallet out because, the funny thing is earlier
in the night I was in, uh, uh, The Isles, when I was doing my patrol in The Isles. As you
enter The Isles, you make the first right. And there was a gentleman walking his dog and
he immediately saw me and, and because I was blacked out in a van driving around, and I
immediately grabbed my wallet and I went like this, I was like, Sir, Im a police officer.
Its okay, were here doing surveillance and everything, so I know to identify myself
right off the bat. But it happened so quick. He drew that gun so quick on me.

KS:

Okay. Okay.

CK:

Do you have the holster for your gun ---

NR:

Yeah.

CK:

--- with you?

NR:

No, they have it.

CK:

What is the attachment you have on your belt there?

33

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Uh, this is for my leg holster.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

Thats the one.

CK:

Did you have that tactical belt on at the time?

NR:

Yes. This is the same exact belt I had on.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

This right here. I had it in the waistband holster. And the whole thing with the drop leg
holster was, you know, if I do need to go out or something like that, put the vest on, put
the holster on and then go.

CK:

Okay. Uh, lets talk about two other things.

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

The, uh, when you said you, you swore you shot up there ---

NR:

Uh-huh.

CK:

--- when he first pulled the gun at you? Did you see if it had an impact on him?

NR:

I couldnt tell. I, I was looking [UI].

Did you notice ---

CK:

Oooh, oooh, oooh.

CK:

Were you watching him?

NR:

Uh, uh, uh, uh, my, my aim was, I was watching that gun.

CK:

Did he fall down?

34

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

No.

CK:

Did he stumble? Did he say ouch or you shot me or anything?

NR:

[makes gesture]

KS:

Did he say anything at that point?

NR:

Uh, nothing, nothing was said and nothing was, and he was just pointing the gun right. I
[UI].

KS:

No body reaction to indicate something may have occurred?

NR:

Hes, no nothing, just flight at that point.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

And uh, which hand was he holding the gun in?

NR:

Right.

CK:

Okay.

KS:

And again, do you remember where it came from?

NR:

He was, like again, like my view was blocked by that door a lot ---

KS:

Okay.

NR:

--- so I couldnt tell if he had it in his waist, if it had it in the door, if he had it on the seat,
I dont know.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

I remember seeing that thing coming right at me.

TW:

[UI].

35

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

When he ran, when he ran, was he full sprint back?

NR:

[sighs] I, I saw him running. I, I.

CK:

Was it fast?

NR:

Not, not fa-, not fast. It wasnt fast cause I, Im, uh, cause I, I still had, like he was a f-,
I, I guess he was, you could say if he was in a full sprint trying to run away, he would
probably made it a lot further.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

And.

CK:

Im gonna, Im gonna ask you to do one thing after ---

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

--- I ask you one more question. The blood, you said you got blood all over you.

NR:

Yes.

CK:

How did you do that?

NR:

When we went, once we found his body and everything, and it was only me, Sergeant
Spragg and Sergeant Anderson, and when we saw his body, we flashed a light on him.
We, and we were up here at this guard rail, and right kinda like, uh, where this
emergency truck is sitting at? [camera spans to the right where emergency truck is seen].
And we looked down and we were like, Uh, there he is. He hands were tucked
underneath him.

CK:

Right.

NR:

We couldnt even see his hands. So a Sarg-, one of the sergeants said, We need to go
make sure that he doesnt, his, his, uh, you know, that hes not alive still, hes not holding
onto the weapon, and everything like that. And Sergeant Anderson had the shield out. I
was behind him in shield cover like this, and Sergeant Spragg was a little further from me
with a rifle out, and we slowly approached the body. Uh, I think, I think we gave some
36

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

verbal commands, Show me your hands, show me your hands, and nothing happened.
He didnt move. He didnt even flinch. And at uh, Sergeant Spragg said, Raj, we got
cover. Holster up. We gotta pull his hands out. And so at, I holstered, I pulled his hand
out, I pulled the other hand out, and then uh, Im not sure if it was Sergeant Spragg or
Sergeant Anderson that said, Lets flip em just to make sure that, that hes not laying on
top of the gun. So, I grabbed his arm and I flipped him. There was no gun, nothing
seen, so Sergeant Spragg was like, Okay, hes clear. Lets call, uh, Fire Rescue up, and
I walked about like, Im gonna go wash myself. Im covered in blood.
CK:

And where did you do that at?

NR:

Uh, I mo-, there was a Rescue, there was a fire truck [camera spans to the right where
emergency truck is seen] and a ambulance by, right behind it, with the rescue, and I
walked back there, I was like, I need to wash this off me. And uh, p-, and uh, the
firefighter, she grabbed a bottle of hydrogen peroxide, popped it, and just started
dumping it all over me, and I was just washing myself.

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Now to go back when, when the gentleman was rolled over, ---

NR:

Yes, sir.

KS:

--- did you, did anybody check him ---

NR:

No.

KS:

--- to see if he had any other kind ---

NR:

No.

KS:

--- of weapons.

NR:

No.

KS:

Did you see anything on the ground around him?

37

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

We just, we just kinda like did this and everything, and Sergeant Anderson was like, We
need to get out of this. We need to, we cant com-, we shouldnt contaminate this crime
scene anymore.

KS:

And you didnt see anything ---

NR:

Uh, and the immediate, ---

KS:

--- out of the ordinary?

NR:

--- the immediate area, no.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

Was that truck here when, when this happened?

NR:

No, this truck was like way towards the end. They just needed more lights, so they called
it in.

CK:

Just making sure. And uh, did you have anything, uh, to do with recovering any piece of
evidence around here?

NR:

N-, no its.

CK:

Whether it be shell casings or guns or anything like that?

NR:

The second that happened, the second I washed my hands, uh, Sergeant Anderson was
like, Raj, you need to be with me, and he took me, do you see where those officers are
s-, s-, where those guys are standing right there by that car? [camera spans to the left
where marked police van is seen with officers]

CK:

Yeah. Yes.

NR:

Right there, and I was there for the rest of the, till our command bus.

CK:

You never entered the crime scene again ---

NR:

No.
38

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

--- until you did this ---

NR:

No.

CK:

--- right now?

NR:

Yeah.

KS:

Did you get into a car, or were you still outside?

NR:

No, I was outside the car the whole time till the command bus, our command bus came
and I got into our command bus, and then your command bus came and I switched over
to yours.

KS:

Okay.
[00:10:33 00:10:28 [time stamp on video] - pause in conversations]

LF:

Whats the first thing he did when you yelled police again?

NR:

The second I said, uh, Hey, man, police he immediately just stepped back and I saw, I
remember clearly seeing that gun over that door pointing right at me.

CK:

Tell me, tell me about, you, you mentioned your, uh, I want you to talk about your
emotions at the time of the entire incident, but take it from when you, when he first
popped out of the car. Uh, you thought it was unoccupied you said?

NR:

Yeah, I, uh, uh.

CK:

Tell me about your emotions and, and how they progressed during this?

NR:

Okay, well again, like I said, uh, I couldnt see any occupants inside the vehicle at all. I
thought the vehicle was completely unoccupied thats why I pulled up like I, like, like a
retard in front of the vehicle because my whole plan was Im gonna pull in front. If I put
my flasher on and make sure, you know, let Dispatch know, hey, theres a car abandoned
over here on the side of the road, or theres this, Im gonna go check at the gas station
and everything.
39

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

Right.

NR:

And, but the second as I come, the guy pops out of, out of nowhere, jumps out, and I saw
the [makes noise]. And I immediately, Im just used to, you know, throwing that thing in
park and jumping out of the car. Just like, you know, the training what we do almost
every, on a daily basis. And it just immediately my training just kicked in. I didnt even
have to think about it, and that was like. And its the holster thing, like when I saw that
gun and I drew on him, and I was like, and Im like questioning myself, how did I draw
that quick on this guy? And it went from like, Im gonna say its nothing, its just a car
broken down to holy fuck, Im about to die. And it was just uh, uh, like. You
immediately like think of your f-. [NR becomes emotional] [pause] You know, all I
could think of was just, the night before I went home and my wife saw me in plain
clothes and shes like, What are you doing? I was like, I was doing surveillance last
night. And the first words out of her mouth was, Wheres your vest? Im like,
Honey, its inside the van. Its next to me. If I need it, I can throw it on and
everything. And all I could think of was my fuckin kids, man. [NR gets emotional]
Im sorry.
[00:08:34 00:08:31 [time stamp on video] - pause in conversation]

CK:

[to KS] Do you have anything else [UI]?

KS:

Yeah, [UI] just one more question.

TW:

Yeah, I asked him.

[00:08:26 00:08:22 [time stamp on video] - pause in conversations]

KS:

You okay?

NR:

Yeah. Yeah.

KS:

Okay. Now when he got out of the car, how did he get out of that car? Did it look like
he had just opened up the door and stepped out?

NR:

I saw him pop ---

40

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

I mean what was uh?

NR:

--- up fast, like, ---

KS:

Okay.

NR:

--- like I could, like I couldnt tell you like if he stepped to the left foot or right foot,
cause I, cause, you know, my vans a pretty high van and it was blocked. I just saw him
pop out like, like right there, but [UI]. And it just caught me off guard, its like what the
fuck?

KS:

Okay.

TW:

That red laser, you said that, did it flash or was it steady like?

NR:

It was, uh, flickering.

TW:

It was flickering [UI]?

NR:

Yeah.

TW:

Now, you, you said you know about guns.

NR:

Yes, sir. La-, Laser Max is the only company that makes a laser that goes in the guide
wad of the gun, and theyre not a steady laser. Theyre supposed, theyre designed to
flicker like that to give you like hey, hey, this is where Im at.

TW:

And did you see, were you there when, uh, was there, if there was a gun recovered, were
you there, or did you see it afterwards?

NR:

I, I havent seen a gun. I havent seen anything. Im, Im again, like, you know, after we
got the body and everything, after I washed my hands, they immediately took me over
there and Ive been there the, you know, the whole time.

KS:

Now you said you saw the laser, did you see the end point of that ---

NR:

Oh, uh.

41

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

--- laser at any point?

NR:

The, the ---

KS:

Where.

NR:

--- the la-, oh like where was, uh, no.

KS:

Yeah.

NR:

I had no idea.

KS:

Okay.
[00:07:13 00:07:11 [time stamp on video] - pause in conversations]

CK:

Okay. Uh, two more things.

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

Do you remember when you discharged your weapon, you said you believed it was down
there, ---

NR:

Uh-huh.

CK:

--- did you discharge it anywhere over here?

NR:

Yes, I discharged it in the, and this, this is what Im saying, its like when we, when he
was running, and I was going after him, I was yelling, I was like, Drop the gun, drop the
gun, Im gonna fuckin kill you, drop the gun, and Im yelling at this guy to drop the
gun at the top of my lungs. And I see him do one of these numbers come back, and all I
remember saying to myself in my head was like aim! And I even, [UI] I yelled Im like
aim! And I put that front side right into the black silhouette and I squeezed again.

CK:

Do me a favor. As best you can, the same thing --- [CK hands NR another pink cone]

NR:

Uhh.

42

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

--- approximate where you were. Again, I know its just an approximation.
[00:06:32 00:06:29 [time stamp on video] - NR, CK, KS and LF begin walking
towards the victims car and white van]

NR:

I remember [UI].

CK:

[to KS] [UI].

KS:

[laughs]

NR:

Ill, like again do you have this like in the area? [laughs]

CK:

Yeah.

NR:

[UI].

KS:

Yeah. Now which one is this? Cause you had testified earlier that you shot twice.

NR:

Yes.

KS:

This is the second ---

NR:

This is the second, ---

KS:

--- or the first?

NR:

--- the second series.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

The first series, second series.

KS:

Very good.

NR:

Uh, I probably. I was [UI mumbling to himself while holding 2 pink cones]. Oh, I
[UI].

43

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

Woop, let me get out of your way.

NR:

It looks like, uh. [places one pink cone on the ground]

NR:

Ill probably have to say somewhere around, [UI] almost here and [UI]. [NR places
second pink cone on the ground after he walks a short distance].

KS:

Yep, watch [UI] behind you.

NR:

It was somewhere in this. Cause I remember, I remember I came, I remember I didnt

hug the guard rail. I remember I was coming wide. I remember I was coming wide and
Im, and I remember yelling aim.

KS:

So it was in this general area?

NR:

Uh, in this general area.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

Uh, at which point was he pointing the gun at you here?

NR:

[blowing his nose]

CK:

Running, running backwards and he turned.

NR:

He was, he was run, he, he was running from me, and he did one of these numbers. [NR
turning around]

CK:

Where?

KS:

Where at?

NR:

Where I was at.

CK:

Where.

KS:

Where was, where was he at at that point?

44

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Yeah. He, can we? [pointing to area in front]

KS:

Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

[00:05:16 - 00:05:06 [time stamp on video] NR, CK, KS, LF, TW, DP, and TG
start walking towards where the victim was found]

NR:

I would probably say somewhere ---

KS:

Oh, hold on one second.

NR:

--- in, in, in, in this general vicinity. Do you want me to?

CK:

I dont want you getting wet.

NR:

Nah, thats uh, Im already.

CK:

[OV] It looks like its pretty deep. Listen, dont, go in ---

NR:

Okay.

CK:

--- if its a canal, its uh.

NR:

Ill toss em. [holding pink cones in his hands standing at the guard rail]

CK:

Okay.

NR:

You want me to toss em?

CK:

Yeah.

NR:

Alright. Ill.

CK:

And again its just an approximate.

KS:

Right.

45

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

This is approximate. I would say probably from about here to about this area. [NR
throws pink cones past the canal onto the grass]

CK:

Okay. Right.

KS:

So right in that area.

NR:

Right in that, uh.

KS:

Thats where he was when he.

NR:

Thats where he was. He turned around and, and he just, just went like this. And I was
like and I remember yelling, uh, aim! And just.

LF:

When he spun, you saw the barrel again.

NR:

Yeah, I saw that. Yeah, I saw, I saw him, I saw this.

KS:

Okay, [UI].

CK:

[UI].

NR:

No, no, but I saw, I saw, I saw, the biggest thing that this, heres the thing.

KS:

[coughs]

NR:

Again, from like training and experience, and being around firearms and teaching
firearms and everything like that, this is the, heres the thing. If somebodys running, if
theyre looking back, versus when they see a whole body spinning, you see that fist come
up like this. Hes holding a fucking gun, hes trying to kill me.

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Did you see one at that point?

NR:

Yes.

KS:

Okay.
46

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

I, I, saw something in his, I saw something, and then he dropped and thats when I said, I
saw something silver fall.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

The last thing that well have you to do, it sounds silly, lets go back to ---

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

--- the car.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

[turns to KS] Come here.

[00:03:51 00:03:47 [time stamp on video] - above mentioned all walk back
towards the victims car and white van]

KS:

Um.

CK:

[UI] gonna keep up.

KS:

Im trying.

CK:

Well, the last thing Im gonna have you do as, as best you can, physically and verbally
re-enact the moment without getting in your van. You can start ---

NR:

Okay.

CK:

--- at the drivers door ---

NR:

Okay.

CK:

--- and re-enact everything you did and simulate drawing your gun, because I know you
dont have a gun.

NR:

Uh-huh, uh-huh.
47

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

You know, uh. As best you can, re-enact it as if it was just happening now, you know
what I mean?

NR:

Okay. [all walking around to the drivers door of the white van]

CK:

And what ---

NR:

Without getting in my vehicle, yeah.

CK:

--- [UI]. And when I say re-enact it? I want you to uh, I want the volume of your voice
to be the same. I want your ---

KS:

You do it 100 percent.

NR:

Okay.

CK:

--- your speed ---

KS:

The best you can.

CK:

--- and your walk or your run to be the same. And progress all the way through.

NR:

All the way through, okay.

CK:

Yep.

NR:

Alright. So as Im coming, he pops out.

CK:

Keith, youre probably gonna have to keep up when he starts running.

KT: Yeah.
NR:

And I completely go over and Im like, hes like, and he starts, Hey, man, uh, he jumps
out, and hes like, Hey, man, Im okay. Im like, Hey, man, cops, uh, Hey, man,
police, can I help you? And he immediately j-, uh, Hey, man, police, can I help you?,
and he draws the gun on me, I said, Drop the gun, drop the gun, and bang, bang, bang
and he starts running and I start chasing him. [NR running] And Im calling 9-1-1.
48

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

Hey, this is Gardens Alpha 1, this is Raja. I just shot, I just shot a guy, the guy had a
gun, and Im describing the guy. And as hes going right there, he stops and turns
around and he looks at me, and I was just, and Im like Aim! And I bang, bang, bang, and
I fire about two or maybe three rounds over here and I see him drop. And I come up a
little bit more and Im still on the phone. I slow down and I slow down, and then I
couldnt see him anymore. And I was like, Ive lost sight of him, Ive lost sight of him.
I dont know where he is. And theyre like, Go back, get your radio. Go back, get
your radio. And I just started walking backwards, ran back and got my radio.
[00:02:04 00:01:58 [time stamp on video] - all are walking briefly]
KS:

Now in your estimate, the length of time that you just did that roughly? The same
somewhere?

NR:

Three to four seconds ---

KS:

Okay.

NR:

--- if that.

KS:

Okay.

NR:

Maybe five.
[00:01:45 00:01:41 [time stamp on video] pause in conversations]

CK:

Okay, what were gonna do is were gonna take you over to Sergeant ---

KS:

Moleskar [PH].

CK:

--- Moleskar ---

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

--- Im mixing up the names. Um, where he put your gun in the trunk.

NR:

Yes, I, I.

49

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

And the, the only reason Im gonna have you ---

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

--- go over there is to identify that it is your gun.

NR:

That is, okay, will do.

CK:

And then were gonna take it as evidence.

NR:

Okay.

CK:

And uh, ---

NR:

Gotcha, yeah.

CK:

--- thatll conclude everything.

KS:

Uh, we have one other question.

NR:

Yes, sir. [UI].

KS:

Because you had touched the body down there, ---

NR:

Yes.

KS:

--- do you have any problem with giving us a sample of your DNA?

NR:

Oh no, no, no, no problem. No problem, yes, thats alright.

KS:

Okay. Well have one of our [UI] girls do that ---

NR:

Okay, no problem.

KS:

--- prior to your leaving. Um.

NR:

They havent taken a picture of me either yet.

50

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

[OV] [UI].

KS:

You have no problems with that ---

NR:

[UI] no problem, yeah.

KS:

--- well do that too.

NR:

Yeah, yeah, no problem, yeah.

KS:

Do it all at the same time.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

KS:

Alright, well well go over. [to CK] Do you got the key?

CK:

No.
[00:01:00 00:00:40 [time stamp on video] - all walk over to the police car where
NRs gun is in truck trunk is opened]

CK:

Okay.

NR:

Thats it right there.

LF:

Mmm-hmm. Yeah.

CK:

Sergeant Mole reassured me he has no other handguns in the car.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

So this is your gun?

NR:

That is my handgun right there. Thats my off-duty. Thats my personally owned Glock
27.

51

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

LF:

Okay.

CL:

Since, since the incident, ---

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

--- and before you gave it to Sergeant Mall, did you reload your weapon?

NR:

No, sir.

CK:

Did you tamper with it?

NR:

No, sir.

CK:

Did you take casings out or bullets out ---

NR:

[shakes head no]

CK:

--- nothing?

NR:

Nothing, sir.

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Did you pick up anything out here in the road?

NR:

Nothing at all, sir.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

Was, I think I know the answer, I want you to say it.

NR:

Yes, sir.

CK:

Was there any physical contact between you and the suspect?

NR:

No, sir.

52

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

He never grabbed you, you never grabbed him?

NR:

No, sir.

CK:

No tussle besides ---

NR:

Nothing.

CK:

--- the end ---

NR:

Yes, besides the end.

CK:

--- where you flipped him over.

NR:

Exactly, yes, sir.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

Mmm.
[UF/police staff comes over to the trunk holding a box]

CK:

Were gonna inventory this in your presence.

NR:

Okay. Ooops, sorry, sorry, uh.

KS:

[laughs]
[UF/police staff seen wearing blue gloves with the box]

KS:

If you wanna come right over here ---

NR:

Sure.

KS:

--- thatd be fine. Go ahead Larry.

53

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

[UF/police staff seen holding and examining NRs gun in its holster and magazine,
placing magazine in the box. Next, she removes NRs gun from his holster, examining
the gun]
UF:

Alright, you got a Glock 27, 40 caliber, Serial Number is GFO, G gulf, M Mike, 509, U
uniform, 0.
[UF/police staff places gun in the box]

UF:

One live round in the chamber. [picking up bullet] Winchester 40 S&W --- [picks up
magazine to examine] --- magazine. [picks up paper bag]

CK:

Is, is that your, is that your Serial Number on it?

NR:

Yes it is, sir. And that is, uh, uh, and department-issued ammunition, too.

CK:

Okay thats a department-issued gun?

NR:

No, thats my personal gun. I qualified with it ---

CK:

Okay.

NR:

--- [UI] off duty with the department, and thats department-issued ---

CK:

Okay.

NR:

--- ammunition inside the gun.

[UF/police staff continues handling gun]

CK:

And the gun in the van?

NR:

The gun in the van, thats 100 percent department everything.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

54

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

UF:

[holding magazine] Okay, and then the magazine [UI]?

CK:

And I apologize, this is personally owned?

NR:

Yes, this is personally owned, but authorized by the department, and the department, uh,
is qualified with it, and department-issued.

UF:

[UF/police staff handling bullets from the magazine] Winchester 40 S&W rounds. [UF
puts bullets into paper bag]

NR:

How many?

CK:

[UI] if we talk with [UI]?

NR:

Im sorry, how many was it?

UF:

There are three live ---

NR:

Uh-huh.

UF:

--- 40 S&W Winchester rounds in the magazine ---

NR:

Okay.

UF:

--- taken from, uh, the uh, pistol. And then one ---

NR:

One.

UF:

--- live round ---

NR:

In the chamber.

UF:

--- from the chamber.

CK:

How do you usually load your weapons? Do you max out the magazine and then one in
the chamber? Or you do you add that one? How do you do it?

NR:

The magazine is always topped-off one in the chamber.

55

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

Okay. And the firearm thats in the van, the same way?

NR:

The same exact.

CK:

Yeah, okay, so.

NR:

So there will be 20 in the magazine and one in the chamber cause I have a plus five
extender on those magazines.

CK:

Okay. How many magazines do you have in the car?

NR:

[motioning to LF]

LF:

Yeah, I just couldnt hear what you just said.

NR:

Okay, no, no, no, I said on the handgun inside the, my duty gun, theyll be one in the
chamber and 20 in the magazine, so a total of 21.

CK:

And do you have extra magazines in the car?

NR:

Yes, in my vest I have two.

CK:

And theyre 20 also?

NR:

No, theyre not 20. Theyre, I think like 17s or 18s.

CK:

Okay.

NR:

Mmm-hmm.

CK:

Okay.

UF:

Uh, just for information, for the extra magazines, um, I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 live.
They all look like Winchester 40 S&W rounds. [putting above rounds into paper bag]
And that was the extra magazine that was on top of the holster inside. [writing on paper
bag]

56

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

Okay. [pause] You satisfied? Any other questions?

KS:

Nothing that I can think of at this point.

[UF/police staff seen still at the trunk area]

TW:

Uh.

NR:

Yes, sir.

TW:

So when the guys running, in a nut shell, ---

NR:

Uh-huh.

TW:

--- and he turns around, ---

NR:

Uh-huh.

TW:

--- yeah, I dont [UI], he turns around and you said with his right arm?

NR:

Yeah, I saw his right hand come like this. I saw something in his hand pointing in my
direction.

TW:

Whatd you think at that point?

NR:

A gun, hes shooting at me. Hes trying to kill me.

TW:

Thats why you shot at him?

NR:

And, and, exactly, and thats when its like, the thing like, aim came to me, its like aim,
and I remember picking up that front site putting it right in the silhouette and squeezing.

TW:

Have you ever seen this guy before do you know?

NR:

Never.

KS:

You ever seen that vehicle before?

57

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

NR:

Uh, no sir, never.

CK:

When you said, when you, when you said, uh, police, you identified yourself as a police
officer then?

NR:

Yes.

CK:

Any other time during this whole incident did you say, police?

NR:

I, I, Im, I dont know what to tell you.

CK:

Whats that?

NR:

I, I, I dont know what to tell you. I, I, I remember screaming, Drop the gun, drop the
gun. I remember screaming that. Im sure I probably said, Police, drop the gun, uh,
its just.

CK:

You dont remember?

NR:

I dont remember, yeah.

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Okay.

CK:

Okay. Um, happy [UI]?

KS:

Good.

LF:

[shakes head yes]

CK:

Okay.

KS:

Thank you very much [UI].

NR:

Youre welcome.

KS:

Okay.
58

File # 282A-MM-6740884
Date: October 18, 2015
Time: 7:50 A.M.

CK:

[UI]
[End of Video]

59