Bank Notes Secrets
Bank Notes Secrets
You’re about to learn an “under the radar” technique for making money from
the mortgage meltdown, and how more than a dozen FAT CAT Wall Street
These FAT CATS hope you never learn about this opportunity so they can
keep raking in the easy money. But we are going to come clean and show you
how any average investor can profit from this same situation.
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Earnings Disclaimer
Statements regarding the potential for earnings, profits or income that are
included on our website are estimates and are not meant to guarantee or
represent that you will experience similar results.
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Table of Contents
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The Dirty Little Secret about the Fat Cats of Wall Street
You’re about to learn an “under the radar” technique for making money from
the mortgage meltdown. And you’ll learn the dirty little secret about how
more than a dozen FAT CAT banking executives are raising hundreds of
millions of dollars to take advantage of – and profit from! – the mess they
helped create.
These FAT CATS hope you never learn about this opportunity so they can
keep raking in the easy money. But we are going to come clean and show you
how any average investor can profit from this same situation.
So, let’s get a better understanding about you. Are you someone who:
• Has been chasing short sales that have taken you months to
complete
that haven’t performed the way you’ve wanted, and you’re looking
looking for a way to use your skills and knowledge to create new
• Has the gift of gab and is looking for your next calling in the
• Is ticked off that FAT CATS should be able to make off with
millions after having created the mess that we’re in (and that even
If you said yes to any of these, then you’re in the right place.
I wrote this book because I’ve had friends come up to me with sob story after
because I’ve had other friends tell me that they’re trying to chase real estate in
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not able to close enough of them, or to close them quickly enough, to make
Let me make something very, very clear to you right now. If you don’t have
your network of contacts doesn’t include bankers and investors who are
working in the world of discounted real estate debt, then you’re missing out
Don’t believe me? Then listen to what some of the FAT CATS have to say
about it.
Jon Daurio is the CEO of Kondaur Capital, one of the largest investors of
discounted bank notes, based out of the offices of one of the largest creators of
discounted bank notes, and formerly the world’s largest subprime lender,
Here’s how big Daurio believes it is: “I figure there are about $12 trillion in
outstanding mortgages, about half of which are not securitized. So that's about
$6 trillion dollars. Say 10 percent of those loans are scratch & dent, so the
take every single one of those mortgages and throw them into a bucket called
“Discounted Notes”.
1
Orange County Register, Monday, March 16, 2009. “Ex-subprime exec works flip side of
the market”, http://www.ocregister.com/articles/span-style-font-2334783-weight-bold
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Assumes that the average mortgage size is $175,000 – as calculated across 34million
mortgages profiled in the OCC’s Mortgage Metrics Report for First Quarter 2009, available
here: http://www.occ.gov/ftp/release/2009-77.htm
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It’s not a bucket. It’s a veritable trough.
Here’s what one of the other FAT CATS – one of Daurio’s competitors – has
to say about feeding from that bucket. “It has been very successful — very
hedge fund set up to invest in discounted bank notes. He continues, “In fact,
The top brass at PennyMac used to run a small mortgage lender called …
Countrywide.
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New York Times, March 4, 2009. “Ex-Leaders of Countrywide Profit From Discounted
Loans”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/04/business/04penny.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=print
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And now?
“[They] stand to make millions from the home mortgage mess,” said the New
So if the smartest men on the planet who made a killing recently from the real
estate boom –Angelo Mozilo, who used to run Countrywide made $470
Million over 5 years during the boom – see this as an opportunity, then do you
Again?!
If you answered “No” and you think that it’s time for YOU to get a piece of
This is your time to get even. Don't let the guys who made the mess be the
As the old saying goes: “If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.”
The quicker you understand what I’m about to share with you, the more
Chances are you won’t be able to compete with the BIG FAT CATS in the
push around, after all. But here’s an interesting little secret – in fact it’s THE
The FAT CATS can’t become millionaires and billionaires … without your
help!
What the FAT CATS need, in fact, is for you and other investors to buy from
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You see, some of the most successful FAT CATS out there are actually trying
to get investors like you to pay as much as possible for notes that they want to
sell TO YOU! That’s how they make their money … by buying low and
selling high to people who don’t know much about notes. Some of them will
do anything they can to get you to pay as much as possible for their notes.
Now, what I’m NOT telling you is to avoid these FAT CATS like the plague:
not at all. In fact, what I’m going to tell you is that you can – and should – buy
as much as you can from them. It may sound odd, but you’ll actually find
some of your best deals from FAT CATS, because they need to sell their
notes. And because they have so many that they want to sell (some of them
have thousands of notes in their portfolio that they are looking to sell at any
given time), they don’t always know the situation on a single note as well as
you do.
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The Second Dirty Little Secret in the Discounted Note Business
The key to success – the second dirty little secret in the discounted bank note
information business. The way you really make your money in the
discounted note business is that you KNOW MORE about what you’re buying
Sure, sure, if you have investors who only ask for a 5% rate of return on their
money you might be able to make money simply because your cost of money
is lower than the seller’s, but when you really get down to analyzing the best
deals that anyone ever does in this business, it’s almost always because the
information the buyer has about a certain note is better than the information
So is there any chance that you might know MORE than one of these FAT
Absolutely.
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Let me give you a concrete example. One of my students bought a note – one
wrote to me the other day. He went on to explain how, in one case, he ended
up making a rate of return on his money that was a LOT higher than he
originally anticipated when he first looked at how much they wanted for their
note.
His point to me was this (and I’ll translate his “code” for you below): “They
sold me a loan that was coming out of BK13 and completely missed the
amount due in arrears through the trustee. All of this info was readily
Now, hang on a second before you tell me that you’re overwhelmed with the
lingo he just used above. In very simple terms, what he said was the
– (1) their normal mortgage payment to the lender, and (2) an additional
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payment to the bankruptcy court to cover all their late payments and accrued
interest.
The seller on this note completely missed the second payment that was
being made by the borrower to the bankruptcy court, and didn’t even know
about those payments. But my student caught that (as an advanced student of
consumer bankruptcy, and knew what to look for when he was buying the
note). And so he decided to buy the note at a deeply discounted price that he
“The second payment,” he pointed out to me, “raised our yield on the note by
5 percent.” That’s like suddenly discovering that your 2% interest rate on your
1-year CD is now yielding 7% because the bank found some special program
Would you be happy if you found that out?! My student certainly was. And he
knows that he can – and continues to – make money from these FAT CATS.
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With what I teach you, you’ll find a whole lot more tricks that will level the
playing field in your favor and against those FAT CATS that you can
And yes, I did say “immediately start buying from”. It took one of my
students exactly 12 minutes to start buying his first note from one of these
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Introduction
Buying or finding notes – finding notes is when you don’t use your own
money and get paid by bringing a buyer and seller together – is the largest and
Those that “get it” are seeing profits beyond what they ever expected. In this
book I’ll share 5 case studies with you from 4 different people who have been
Buying notes enables you to take advantage of one of the “biggest and
baddest” bank failures in this country’s history. You can buy what those banks
One of the best things about this investment strategy, though, is that you can
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Let me repeat this, because it’s one of the best things about this type of
investing.
What You Don’t Need to Worry About with Discounted Note Buying:
• Termites and other pests that bore away a property investor’s asset
• Realtors who don’t want to help you get your short sale closed
need to even leave the comfort of your own home. If you dream of
working from home, then buying Discounted Bank Notes is for you!
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Getting Started
I’ve had hundreds of people ask me about the value of buying notes. “Is it
hard?” they ask. Or “Do banks really sell notes at a discount?” What they’re
in banks, doing a lot of internal strategy work for Chase, and before that as a
management consultant working for large banks to help them analyze and
I applied that approach to the world of real estate – and the world of note
First of all, it’s an area that although few individual investors may have heard
about it or know how it works, there are huge companies and funds that are
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I already gave you the example of the former Countrywide executives at
One of the keys to success is adapting to changing markets. One of the most
significant changes in the past three years has been mortgage default rates.
Obviously that’s had an impact on home prices, and foreclosure rates have
skyrocketed.
California, one of the worst-hit states, saw 637 Foreclosures6 in the second
What’s going on behind the scenes, though, is even more important than what
you read about in the headline stats. Every foreclosure begins as a non-
performing loan at a bank. And only if the bank “gives up” does that loan get
taken all the way to foreclosure and then sold as Real Estate Owned (REO) if
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MDA Dataquick, April 22, 2009 “Golden state mortgage defaults jump to record high”
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Many banks don’t “give up”, though, and end up working those non-
performing loans as best they can. “Working out” is the common expression
losses when the loan goes delinquent. So “working out” a loan typically
What happens when those banks face massive foreclosure volumes, as they’ve
been facing over the past two years, is that they become incapable of
“working out” those loans. That is what has spurred Pennymac and a host of
other investment companies to pile into the market over the past two years in
The less capable the banks are of working out their own non-performing
loans, the more willing they may be to sell off those loans and to get rid of
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San Diego County saw Notices of Default rise from 3,055 in January 2009 to
3,673 in April 2009, an increase of just over 20%7 in a single quarter. That’s
volume.
discounted bank notes. And it’s one of the top 10 funds targeting discounted
The International Monetary Fund (the IMF) has estimated that the US could
notes.8
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Ward Hanigan hosts a Foreclosure Forum with detailed stats for San Diego county on his
website: www.foreclosureforum.com
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Calculated Risk blog, April 4, 2009: http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/04/report-imf-
to-warn-of-4-trillion-in.html
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In other words, there would need to be 1,333 Pennymacs to buy up all the
toxic assets that US banks may currently have, according to the IMF.
If you feel like you’re chasing too few good REO deals, or wasting your time
Stop chasing short sales and go focus on the big gorilla in the room right now:
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What’s Possible When You Invest in Discounted Bank Notes
Once you focus on notes, you completely turn the investment process on its
head, because you enter a world of scale, rather than deals. What’s possible
single individual at a bank that can provide you with deal after deal
note buyers you see a lot of big companies – they understand the
individual buyers of notes, no matter how many big funds and big
companies exist in this market. Picture this: the note market is like
a staircase with 4 stairs. And notes are like a slinky, going down
those stairs. The top stair is the big banks that have more than
$100M in loans. The next step down is the smaller banks and
large individual investors that have $1-20M in loans, and the last
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step are individuals who invest out of their IRAs and invest in 1-10
loans. The big banks start with a large package of notes – maybe
investment company (so the slinky goes down a stair). Then that
goes down another stair) and then the slinky finally makes it to the
bottom stair (to the individual investors who know where to stand
• Volume. If you know where to look, what to ask for, and who to
can get set up for a steady pipeline of deals to invest in. It’s that
simple.
For you as an investor, you have the opportunity to create a new lead source
that generates massively more leads than any of your other investment
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And the best part of all is that you can do it without having to leave the
comfort of your home or office. No more driving the neighborhood for fixer-
uppers!
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The Benefits of Discounted Bank Notes
geography
markets …. ever
Simplify and multiply your lead generation: two very successful investors I
know have used a single bank relationship to build significant wealth. One
bought non-performing notes for seven years from one bank before it was
acquired by Citibank. Another spent an entire year buying more than 1 note
per week from National City Bank. That same person just raised $50M to buy
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In terms of multiplying your lead generation – there are over 8,000 banks the
FDIC regulates, and another 800 that are regulated by the Office of Thrift
Supervision.
Generate income continuity: an average rehab project may take 2-3 months
invested in, we averaged 4.5 months from when we bought to when we either
Grow your real estate business beyond your usual geography: I recently
attended a real estate conference in San Francisco and met an investor by the
name of Jenny. She said she typically invested in the San Francisco Bay Area.
We started talking about notes and she mentioned she was actually in the
In Columbus, Ohio.
I asked her what made her comfortable about investing that far away from her.
She said she had an opportunity to buy a 1st mortgage of $120,000 for
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$58,000, on a house that she had appraised at $180,000. That’s a discount of
acquired 95 notes in the past three years, or just over 1 every two weeks. I’ve
seen two of the properties in person; have taken back less than 10 as REO’s,
and have managed absolutely no property rehab work. The most we ever did
for a quick sale. I like showing photos of this property on the last page. It was
the 2nd note I bought – 3,000 miles from my home in Lakeland, Florida. The
front door was ajar - this was the kitchen as photographed by a realtor I had
take a look at the property. And we did no property management at all on the
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Take advantage of one of the largest real estate markets in history: the
non-performing loan market is many times the size of the REO market. Take a
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From RealPropertyAlpha: http://realpropertyalpha.com/2009/02/15/credit-quality-problems-
california-100-largest-banks/
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Why Do Notes Work?
sophisticated bankers who sit in plush offices and push paper. If that’s how
you view Notes then you’ll never get into one of the most profitable areas of
real estate, with the highest concentrations of money, and the biggest
track investments that have one of 6 defined exit strategies you can pursue.
• Deep discounts
• Limited paperwork
• Multiple notes per bank: a friend of mine in the industry, we’ll call
him Andrew, had one of his account reps call and fax in an offer to one
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bank over and over and over again to the same bank rep, for about six
months. In the end, the bank rep got so sick and tired of Andrew’s guy
faxing her an offer one of her notes that she finally called the guy and
just told him “fine – send the money – I accept.” A year later, Andrew
had made well over one million dollars on that one bank relationship –
and had bought dozens and dozens of notes from the bank. Unless you
notes from a Wall Street bank at 22% of the notes’ balance, and at
Typically, you can buy or find notes in the range of 40-65% of the
in order to buy a note and get into a deal. It is easy to negotiate. There
in California.
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• The Three “T’s” of Termites, Toilets and Tenants Don’t Apply:
mitigation process for you. You can do a lot of this yourself if you’re
about notes to most people is that you don’t have to deal with things
like tenants, toilets or termites. After all, when you buy a note, you
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The 7 Principles
If you want to succeed in the note business, then heed the following
principles. Not all are intuitive, even if you’re a well-established real estate
investor to begin with. The quicker you grasp these 7 principles, the better
1. Not 1 but 2. Every note that you buy will be tied to a Security
2. Notes are not real estate, they’re personal property. One of the
accrue gains. Since they qualify as personal, and not real property, you
also don’t have the liabilities that come with people tripping on the
sidewalk in front of “your” house. You don’t own any real property.
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3. There’s no equity. If you’re looking to create “equity” in your
investment, then skip over this asset class altogether. What you game
with a note is the difference between what you paid for the note, and
which notes aren’t real property. Since they’re not real property,
between what you buy a note for, and how much of the note’s balance
a non-performing note and make it perform again, then you will end
you’ve lost $1. If you buy a note and deed of trust against a house, and
that house loses $1 in value, you have not lost $1. This is critical to
understand.
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6. It’s not about the deal. Buying or finding notes is about building a
process of finding either 1 or more sources to buy notes from, and then
following a set of steps over and over again in order to make money. If
you’re the type of person who loves “the deal”, and the process of
and performance deeds with fractional interest, then notes aren’t for
you. Notes are for the person who wants to build a business. The
7. Three things you thought were right side up are upside down, and
• Bankruptcy
When you think about bankruptcy, you’d be right to think that it’s
usually a good thing if it were you that were filing it. When it’s your
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borrower that files bankruptcy, it’s a bad thing because it delays your
exit strategy.
• Foreclosure
in 50% or more of all notes you buy. In that case, foreclosure is a good
thing. A little fire under someone’s feet usually prompts them to take
action.
• Short Sales
You’ve heard the horror stories of the 8-month short sale deals, or it’s
property in which the lender tells you that they’ll accept a short sale,
and they tell you exactly where you need to be – AND on top of it all,
they move lightning fast and don’t ask you to give them a single piece
one of the best strategies for closing out a loan investment after you’ve
bought one.
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Two Lessons to Get Going
First off – listen to Nolan Bushnell, founder of Atari and Chuck E. Cheese's,
critical ingredient is getting off your butt and doing something. It's as simple
as that.”
Second, and most important, you need to know what you know. That may
Peter Drucker, the management guru, once said: “A person can perform only
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Lesson # 2 is – Lead from your Strengths. Let’s help you figure out what
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Breaking Down the Discounted Bank Note Business
discounted notes.
money.
In order to apply Drucker’s wisdom, you need to figure out which of the three
components of the business to start out with, in order to get up and running
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It helps to get started on your strongest foot, right? If you wanted to get in
shape and you loved water and were afraid of heights, it wouldn’t be a good
idea to sign up for a workout program that focused on rock climbing rather
To put it another way, let’s identify where you’re most skilled, and where you
have the LEAST amount of work to do in order to excel and make money.
Here’s Peter Drucker again: “We all have a vast number of areas in which we
1. Finding deals
2. Buying notes
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3. Getting out and making money
If your real skill is in talking to people and "connecting", you should focus on
business", you should focus on taking advantage of the Discounted Bank Note
Finally, if you don’t have access to money right now, there are sources for
money that you can turn to, and that we’ll help you to find. It’s a question of
Let me point out something very important here for those of you asking
build a business that will do ALL of these three steps – I don’t want to just
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No matter which of the categories you fall into, you can always partner up
with or hire out to someone with the skills of the other category if you want to
It’s important to recognize that even if you don’t have the skills to be a Note
Finder right now, or if you’re not really operations-oriented, you can still
Really?
No, it doesn’t.
Take Sherry Nickels. She has been a Note Finder for several years – her role
is to put a note buyer in touch with a note seller, and then to let the seller sell
and the buyer buy. She gets paid once they complete a trade.
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She has been doing very well for herself. And she has never needed to have
any money to buy a note or a bunch of notes, herself. (To find out more about
Sherry and the way she makes money in this business, head to our
http://www.notebuyingprofits.com/members/?p=1665.)
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What’s in it for Me?
Well, let me share a couple of examples with you about people who have been
doing this business, and let you hear from them what they think.
Rick used to buy properties at auction in North Georgia. Then, two things
happened in 2007 and 2008: a) the appreciation he was used to getting on the
houses that he would rehab or fix up, dropped to close to nothing, and; b) his
wife came down with cancer, and all the cash he had saved up he ended up
Now here are a couple of things about buying properties on the courthouse
three thousand dollars,” says Rick – because you never really know what
someone else wants to pay for the house. So everyone would ask Rick, “Well,
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“Well, I didn't have more money,” says Rick. That was the situation he was
in.
himself: “I really want to do one note.” So he developed his own strategy for
He went to the bankruptcy court and did some research, and found people
with multiple mortgages against their property who were in bankruptcy. Now,
one of the things about this strategy is that what Rick doesn’t like to admit is
that he was on the brink of bankruptcy himself. He did this strategy, “Because
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No. Rick had less than $5,000 available to invest.
So here was Rick’s first note deal. He bought a 2nd note (which means that it
was the 2nd note behind a larger one that was called a “First”.) The first was a
$78,000 note that the borrower owed $64,276 on. And Rick was buying the
2nd note – the balance on it (the amount the borrower owed on the note), was
$20,000.
Guess how much Rick bought the 2nd note for – the one that had a balance of
$20,000?
$2,000.
That’s 10% of the balance on that note. That’s what he paid for it. He received
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Well, I hear you saying. Discount is great, but what did he DO with it after
that?
Well, Rick had his servicer offer the borrower a modification on the note – in
other words he agreed to accept a lower payment than what they were
payments. The note had actually increased in price every month, because the
rate on their mortgage had increased so that the borrower was supposed to be
paying $347 per month. Instead, Rick told his servicer to give the message to
the borrower that he would be willing to accept the regular monthly payment
the borrower originally had paid, which was only $297 per month.
The borrower was thrilled, and started making those $297 payments again.
So, the numbers once again: Rick paid $2,000 for the note, and is collecting
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If he had invested that $2,000 in a CD at the bank, Rick would have been
The Numbers
receiving a monthly interest payment of
Purchase: $2,000
… hang on to your seat here … $3.33 Cash monthly: $297
(at a 2% interest rate).
Yield: ~180%
Rick is receiving a monthly payment worth 89 times what the bank would
have paid him on a 1-year CD! Oh, and the first note – what happened with
that one? Well, the borrower was making payments on the 1st the entire time.
How much work does he have to do to maintain or what’s called “service” his
note? None. It’s done for him by a licensed and regulated servicing company
Rick’s 2nd deal he got into was also a 2nd note – this one had a balance of
$59,000. The 1st note on the property had a balance of $49,000. And the house
was worth $122,000. Guess how much he bought the 2nd note for in this case?
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$3,500 is what he paid for a 2nd note with a balance of $59,000. That’s a
discount of 94%!
What happened in the end? Well, Rick’s attorney took the property to sale,
meaning that the property was sold on the courthouse steps (if you’ve never
been to a foreclosure auction in your county, get yourself down to the County
Sheriff’s sale).
So the day of the auction, an investor bid $36,987 on Rick’s note. Remember
how much he had paid: $3,500. So Rick made a profit of $32,208 in 92 days.
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Where is Rick at now? “My plan as I build up is to just get one every other
month and then build up to one a month, one or two a month, like next year,
and start getting into larger pools.” The word “pools” refers to larger groups
of notes that are sold in packages. Right now, Rick’s focused on buying one at
Here’s the story of my first note. I was chasing Short Sales at the time (in
2004 and 2005) – and I was looking for houses that I could help the owner
sell, and make some money on the sale. This one house was empty, on a nice
By my estimate, the house was worth about $750,000 or so. The 1st mortgage
foreclosure notices. I noticed that there was a 2nd mortgage on it when I was
doing research on it. The 2nd mortgage was with National City Bank.
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I knew someone who had worked at National City. So the next day I called
her up – this was December 19th, 2005, I have the notes from that call right in
system, which I’ll soon be releasing in order to give you the breakthrough
“Hey, Saprina,” I said. “Didn’t you tell me one day that National City sells
notes?” “Yes,” she replied. “I used to sell notes for them all the time.”
“So do you think they might sell me this one?” I asked her. She asked me for
I ran her through the numbers. Here they are below, by the way.
After she heard the details on the note –she did some quick math on it and
then told me matter-of-factly: “Yes they will sell, and if you’re interested, I
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I was dumbstruck. “You can do what?!”
“Well, I used to work there, so I can tell you exactly what you should offer,”
She had my attention. “Go ahead, tell me,” I told her. She told me to start at
"Yes, but they'll probably counter at around 35-40% of the note balance, so
around $50-60,000." She went on: "they'll settle for somewhere around
The bank agreed to sell it for $23,500. They gave me a $126,500 discount on
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So then what?
What I did with the note once we bought it (I bought it with a partner I had at
You see, there was what is called a 3rd note against the property. Another
bank had let the homeowner borrow money for his business, and they had
“secured” (a fancy way for saying they had recorded a mortgage) it against the
Well the bank holding that 3rd note actually paid us $120,000 for our 2nd
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Kevin C.’s 1st Deal
Kevin bought his first note (it was a 2nd note) for $14,500 on a property in
Idaho. How did it go? The balance at the time was $20,665, at a 30%
“I did absolutely nothing with this deal for nearly a month,” he admits,
“because I didn't know what to do and I was waiting for the collateral file and
loan had been bounced all over, they had been making payments to [their
former lender] all along and were not delinquent on their loan. Whoa! I was
taken aback, shocked, and didn't know how to follow up on that, other than to
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Well, to come to the conclusion of the story, Kevin “got the borrower to start
making their regular payments … which they began to catch up on over the
payments in a row.
After a few months, he started thinking, “How can I get cashed out of this
deal, collect my 50% return, and go buy some more notes?” So he had his
servicer offer to the borrowers that they would accept a discounted payoff on
Kevin’s note if the borrower were to refinance their home. The rate on the
note Kevin was holding was 13.75%! (That’s what you sometimes get for
interest rates (around 6.5%), they could refinance both the first and the second
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into a new loan at a shorter term (10-15yrs) and pay less than they are paying
Several weeks later, the servicer called Kevin to state they’d received a
request for payoff from a title company, which meant the borrowers were
refinancing!
The Numbers
“We made $9,592 with a yield of 103%,”
Purchase: $14,500
Kevin told me, “in about 9 months.” He Cash Out: $24,092
After this deal, Kevin began to love 2nd notes. They are inexpensive; they are
hands-on (which Kevin loves – he and his servicing company work closely
with his borrowers) and they can have some of the highest profits of any notes
available.
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Usually, I advise my students to start with small 1st notes, because they’re not
He was a go-getter!
So what was his 2nd deal? It was also a 2nd note. This one cost him only
$2,162 (tell me the truth – do you have $2,162 for a deal that could make you
diligence (Kevin is “anal” and keeps track of his expenses very carefully,
The balance on the note was $7,000, and the borrower owed another $3,400 in
“arrears” – that’s how much they needed to pay in order to bring the note
Kevin’s servicer called the borrowers – a man and his fiancé, and Kevin had
the servicer send a letter asking the borrowers to call so that they could work
No response.
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So Kevin hired an attorney (which merely takes a phone call to a law firm
to foreclose on his loan. The foreclosure attorney sent out a letter to the
The borrowers wanted to pay off their loan. The amount Kevin instructed his
servicer to offer them was a discount on the more than $10,000 that they owed
They took him up on his offer, and one week later, Kevin received a cashier’s
Purchase: $2,162
Purchase fee: $113
He made profit of $3,964 in just under 6 Research: $259
Attorney
months, on a note that he bought for fees: $1,502
Total Cost: $4,036
$2,162.
Cash Out: $8,000
Profit: $3,964
Kevin’s annualized return was 416.42% Hold Time: 6 months
There are three simple steps to making money in the discounted bank note
business:
Step 2 is to Find a Seller of notes. From the last chapter, that may be all of a
Step 3 is to Find a Buyer for those notes (if you don’t want to – or don’t have
As with anything you learn – it’s sometimes more important to know what to
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Imagine a guy who spent weeks or months preparing a perfect plan for
meeting some woman that he was wildly in love with … and never practicing
The same is true for talking to banks and getting non-performing notes.
A student of mine whom I'll call Jefferson (I've masked his real name, but he
certainly exists – you'll see – this story is much too juicy to actually make
up!), recently wrote to me about his experience meeting with people at the
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“All of a sudden this guy starts a conversation and I ask him if he’s here for
“After quick introductions I find out that he’s the head representative for [a
“He asked what kind of paper we buy and (yes I had my script prepared) I told
him non-performing 1st and secured 2nd notes. I threw out terms I learned
from the videos and calls with Dean and managed to have a serious
about 75-80%!”
So just to put this into perspective for you: Jefferson walks into the bathroom
notes.
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He walks out of that bathroom in the Chicago hotel with the business card of a
senior executive at a New England Bank who has just asked him if he would
afterwards that he thought the pricing was a little high, but that “After that
If these scripts and videos can get Jefferson a lead on a $1 Billion worth of
discounted bank notes – do you think they might help you to find 1 or 2 or
even 3 notes from a bank in your local area that you could started with? No
doubt!
Once you’ve learned what to say, and you’re familiar with the lingo (see the
Resources section at the back of this book for a list of the most common terms
you need to know in the Note Business), then you want to be able to find
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You may be lucky and attend a conference and happen to meet a $1 Billion
seller in the restroom. But there are other, more traditional ways to meet
Almost every bank in the country has discounted bank notes – not all are
available for purchase (no mortgages or notes that are in securities, for
example, are available for purchase, which affects approximately 50% of the
for the banks in your home state, and to call the corporate headquarters
number at the bank. What you are looking for is one of three different
departments: either the loss mitigation department (you want to talk to the
head of the department, rather than some low-level gatekeeper); the secondary
the market after a loan has been originated), or; the capital markets “desk”
which refers to a trading “desk” within the company’s trading area – where
they would buy and sell assets of all types. Loans or notes are considered an
explain what it is that you and your company does and are looking for.
This is your "elevator pitch." It's the most important part of building a new
And then you ask what type of "product" the bank has available for sale. By
product, I mean what types and what quantities of notes it has. If you want
"Example Bank Call" section that William S., a student of mine, put together,
and that I’ve edited, to make it easier for you to "crack the code" with a bank.
For even MORE tips on how to find a Note Seller, read through the
chapter in this book. You’ll find at least two additional strategies to get going
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Step 3: Find a Note Buyer
Finally, once you've found someone who Sells Notes, you want to then find a
Buyer for those Notes (assuming that you don’t have the money or the desire
Here are the steps you want to follow in order to secure a buyer.
One of the best ways to find a prospective note buyer is to make use of the
There, you will find hundreds of registered buyers, finders and investors all
Another good source for discounted note buyers is the foreclosure auctions
and sales in your county. Almost every county in the United States holds
investors who buy properties at auction can make excellent prospective buyers
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Why? There are 3 reasons why foreclosure auction buyers can make good
checks at a time;
b) they know exactly what a property is worth – and can usually tell you
What if I were to hand you your first Note and tell you that it would cost you
$10,000 or $20,000 or $100,000, because you DO need to pay cash for notes –
you can’t get them financed? What would the likelihood be that you might
need – or want – to borrow money in order to buy that discounted bank note?
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If you answered “probably,” then you have an extra reason to meet your
My very first source of money to buy notes was a foreclosure auction buyer
by the name of Mike. He’s a 65-year old real estate pro – a crusty-been-
properties are worth anywhere within 20 miles of his home because he’s been
Well, Mike got tired of doing all the rehab work himself on his properties, so
he started lending money. He’s been lending to auction buyers for over 10
years now – and he knows exactly what notes are because … guess what …
he secures his loans with a Note and a Mortgage (or Deed of Trust here in
California).
Does he know about foreclosure? Heck yes! He’s had to foreclose on a few
borrowers himself.
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So was he open to lending money to me at 12% and 3 points in order for me to
go out and buy one of my early notes? Absolutely. He lends up to 75% of the
So, enough said. Get out there and take this golden little tip I just gave you
and go find yourself your first source of funds … he or she is probably less
What’s really neat about this strategy of finding, meeting, and getting to know
foreclosure auction buyers, is that you may end up killing two birds with one
stone: finding people who will buy discounted bank notes from you, as well
as people who can lend you money to buy discounted bank notes yourself.
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What are the Biggest Challenges I’ll Face?
Being able to buy notes is dependent upon having access to money. You don’t
have to have the money yourself, you just need to have access to a reliable
source of cash to close deals fast. Some key factors in getting cash include:
1. Play it simple: Notes are not always that easy for people to
http://www.notebuyingprofits.com/members/?p=1719.
2. Don’t be greedy: you probably have read about how cheap money can
be when you have a good deal. 99% of the time that’s dead wrong.
greedy. Find out what your “Money Partner” or your Lender wants,
and then negotiate them down as much as you can. Remember, they’re
holding the key to your getting your deal done, so expect to start with
a higher cost of funds than you end up negotiating later, down the
road.
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3. Start small: Take what comes to you and just get started. Once you
have a track record on even a single loan, you’ll see that things get
easier as you go along. Don’t believe the hype, though, that it’s easier
note buyers have found useful. It’s included when you purchase the
Note Profits System training. Call the office for details: 415-252-
7254.)
with them – give them updates on what exit strategies your servicer is
pursuing on each note, what your progress is with each borrower, and
their trust in you. Every bit of knowledge you gain, every bid you lose
and every banker you speak to, can provide you with potential insight
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(Note: You can always choose to be a Note Finder – someone who puts Note
Buyer in touch with Note Seller and makes a fee on every trade.)
Let me leave you with a story about Rick, a student of mine who, after closing
his first discounted bank note deal, is now sitting with an offer of $1 Million
Toolkit (the basic version) that I’ve created for students, and he changed the
photograph of the property in it, and put in the numbers from his first note
deal. Then he went out and met with a few people he’d heard had some money
Here’s what happened. He had his first meeting with a couple of investors.
“I kind of gave this whole dissertation on what I was doing,” says Rick. “And
a couple months later he comes back and says, ‘Well, I think I got some
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money for you for some pools, but I don't know if you're going to like the
amount.’
Rick was excited. Maybe he could borrow $100,000 – which is what he was
“Well,” the man answered slowly, almost feeling ashamed. “It would just be a
Rick was floored. To start off, he thought?! Wow – he just had received an
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The lesson learned here is not to underestimate the importance of your first
discounted bank note deal. It can open many, many doors for you, including
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How much money can I make buying Discounted Bank Notes?
We’ve covered 5 case studies in this book about the money that I – and
students of mine – have made buying discounted bank notes (my students
done). They’re covered in the chapter called: “So, What’s In It for Me?” so
please reference that chapter for all the details on these case studies.
Case Study #1: Rick purchased a 2nd position Note with a balance of $20,000,
the borrower wasn’t making payments on it. Rick ended up turning no cash
flow into a cash flow of $297 every month. His yield is over 180% a year on
Case Study #2: Rick purchased a 2nd position Note with a balance of $59,000,
another $1,279) and then cashed out of the deal at the foreclosure sale when
an investor paid $37,000 for the property. His profit on the deal was $32,208 –
Case Study #3: My first note was also a 2nd note (the returns on 2nds can be
much higher in terms of percent, than on 1sts, and they require less money to
purchase, but – fair warning here – they typically take more work for you to
work out if you’re working these with your own servicer). So my first note I
84%! It was a 2nd position note in Oakland California that I ended up selling
to a bank that actually held another note against the same property, for
note. It remains one of the best deals we’ve done on a discounted bank note.
Case Study #4: Kevin, an investor out of New Jersey, and a student of mine,
ended up cashing out of his Note by having his servicer convince the borrower
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payoff on his note. Kevin cashed out just over $24,000 from his Note, and
ended up profiting just over $9,500 from this, in just over 9 months.
Case Study #5: Kevin’s next note, after the one above, was a very small
purchase for him – it only cost him $2,162 to buy a note with a balance of
$7,000. The big thing about this note, however, was that the borrower was so
far behind on their note that they owed another $3,400 in “arrears” – that’s
how much they needed to pay in order to bring the note “current.” Kevin spent
roughly $360 doing research on the note, then another $1,500 on his
foreclosure attorney, and ended up cashing out just over $8,000 as the
borrowers on the note ended up paying off their more than $10,000 note for
the discounted $8,000 that Kevin had his servicer offer them. Kevin made
Let me give you a series of other case studies related to other notes too, that
include both 1st position notes, as well as to note “finding” as we call it, where
you put buyer in touch with seller rather than buy the note yourself.
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Case Study #6: Tom F, Texas, bought a 1st position note in Kansas City,
Missouri. He paid just over $16,000 for the note – which had a balance of
over $67,000. It was a non-performing note, and the property was worth
City, and Tom’s servicer was able to set up a meeting between Tom’s brother
and the borrower. The borrower wanted to refinance her home – with a friend
of hers who was also an executive at a local bank. Tom’s brother met with the
banker and the borrower, and was able to work out a discounted payoff on the
note that allowed the borrower to keep her house, and that allowed Tom and
his brother to make a profit. The local banker assessed the property’s value at
over $35,000 – and was able to get the borrower a refinance at over $25,000 –
Case Study #7: Owen E., in Laurel, Maryland, works both as a Note Finder,
putting a note buyer together with a note seller, as well as a Note Buyer when
he buys in his own account. I could describe what he did on one of his first
note deals here, or instead, I could let him tell his story in his own words.
Hear more about Owen’s deal (and many other case studies) at:
http://www.notebuyingprofits.com/members/?p=1080.
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Can I lose money?
The quick answer is: yes, you can lose money buying discounted bank notes.
One investor I know – I'll call him Charlie – spent over $600,000 to buy $2.2
Million worth of 1st position notes that he thought were worth over $2 Million.
collections company, and more than half of them were foreclosed out due to
Could this happen to you? If you learn what CAN go wrong, and how NOT to
be suckered into buying anything that comes your way, then you will be much
better prepared to face whatever a Bank or other seller throws at you – and
But you need to learn what can and can’t go wrong when you’re buying or
finding discounted bank notes. You’ll save both time and money, both of
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As W. Somerset Maugham wrote in his 1943 novel The Razor’s Edge – a
story about a war veteran who spends time discovering happiness by studying
eastern philosophy in India – “You waste a lot of time going down blind
When I was learning how to buy discounted bank notes, I spent a weekend
studying how with someone I learned a lot from in Utah back in 2005. He was
a genius when it came to negotiating with banks – and taught me a lot that I
might go out and look for money when we were raising funds to buy, or how
to exit out of a note once we bought one. I could have saved a lot of time
developing my own business had I been able to see the entire process from
start to finish, and learn from someone who clearly laid out that process, and
showed me exactly how to take each step along the way, in order to
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W. Somerset Maugham
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That’s why I put together a simple, easy-to-follow system to help other
investors learn how to buy their own notes, or to be a finder for notes. (The
other reasons I’ve created this system are that the best and most capable
that it gets them (could be you!) notes that they can profit from, and allows me
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What do I do if I get stuck?
This is a question that I get all the time. As a result, we’ve put together a
coaching program that gives a select group of students access to a select group
of coaches specially selected to provide the best training and education and
We have different levels of coaching available, so call the office for more
details: 415-252-7254.
Come see how we can help you avoid making mistakes, and how to jump start
your investing to beat the FAT CATS at their own game in this incredible
mortgage meltdown.
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Strategies to Get Started
Here are some advanced strategies to get launched into buying or finding
Discounted Bank Notes. Following even one of these can give you a leg up on
your competition:
My very first note was bought from National City Bank. I had no
idea what I was doing, but found a friend of a friend who had
made $96,500 in 34 days. Think how you can find someone to help
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you in through the back door of a bank! The FAT CATS use this
• Cheap, Good Help is Here Now: you can spend a lot of time
contacting sellers and looking for notes. You should spend a lot of
time doing that. But you may find that you don’t have the time to if
you’ve got a full-time job, like many students of mine. Take Owen,
working for him out of the Philippines, doing all his bank calls for
• Don’t Forget the Weather: I recently did a bank call with two
OneWest). And it was to find out the contact information for the
you can, name some other person who gave you a referral to the
• Get a Hook and Some Chintz: anyone can pick up the phone and
say “I’m looking for non-performing notes – what do you have for
me” and the banker they just talked to will remember them as well
Think of something that a banker can remember you by. One of the
company name and phone number so that the person at the bank
doesn’t forget them. Stand out. A little pad of paper that a banker
never throws away and that has a catchy little phrase like: “Buying
order to stand out from the crowd. It may sound chintzy, but it
might be the little reminder that’s there on the right day at the right
time – just when that banker is looking for a buyer for their Notes!
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• Follow Up the Hook with Reminders: Follow-up is the name of
the game and the key to success. You remember the story about
Andrew who had one of his reps fax one banker the same offer
over and over again for six straight months? Andrew was the king
of follow-up. He got it. Don’t forget the old maxim: “If at first you
personally.
you always face the “who are you?” syndrome. Instead of trying to
Note Seller, gives you an immediate edge. I’ll sometimes call the
risk management or the finance department and ask for the head of
the division, when I’m really just looking for the person who sells
notes. What I’ll usually get out of the person who’s obviously
behind the wrong door for me, is the name and extension of the
should be talking to, I say “John in credit risk gave me your name
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and number,” or “Jason, your CFO said I should give you a call –
do you have a minute?” Think about it: when was the last time
someone hung up on you when you told them their boss asked you
to call them?
Googles investor relations for the bank he’s trying to buy from.
emails that person asking them for the CFO’s phone number. He
then calls the CFO and asks who he should talk to for a specific
anyone below that level! Once, this student contacted all 8 people
about this student, so he took some flak for mass emailing. But
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Resource Tool#1 – Note Buyer’s Glossary
Here’s a glossary of terms that you can study and make use of when you’re
dealing with Note buyers and Note sellers of all kinds. This is enough to get
you started.
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DEED OF TRUST: Similar to a Mortgage except it is a 3-party rather
than 2-party agreement, wherein a Trustee holds a
power of sale on the property.
INTERNAL RATE The IRR for an investment is the discount rate for
which the total present
OF RETURN: value of future cash flows equals the cost of the
investment.
LOAN-TO- VALUE: The value of a specific loan relative to the equity (or
value) of a home.
(LTV) For example, a property worth $500,000 has a 1st
Mortgage of $300,000. The LTV of that loan is 60%.
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MORTGAGE: A document that gets recorded at the recorder’s
office, and which stipulates the terms that govern
what a lender can and can’t do in order to ensure
repayment on their Note to a borrower. A Mortgage
is a two-party agreement signed by a borrower and a
lender, and it attaches the borrower’s home as the
“security” that the lender can recover in case the
borrower defaults.
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Resource Tool #2 – How to Talk to a Bank
Here is an example script that you can use with a bank if you are calling for
the first time – remember – in order to get the phone number for the bank –
use the Lane Guide to get the corporate headquarters number. And remember
– smile when you're talking –an upbeat phone voice can open doors that a
downbeat and tired one can't!
You: Hello, how are you? (Emphasize "how are you", it will get the
operator's attention and they'll feel the need to ask you the same)
You: I'm fine! I'm here in sunny [say where you're calling from!]
enjoying the weather! (This may seem a little corny, but believe
me – talking about the weather is an easy way to break the ice and
gets the operator out of that robot mode of operating. You'd be
amazed how something so small can make a world of difference
in a person's attitude.)
(Usually laughter at this point and some idle talk... let it go where
it goes...it's a nice break from there robotic reactions. It breaks
their grind sort of speak. I have even gone into deeper unrelated
conversation, just nice friendly talk before continuing with the
original purpose of the call. Remember to just have fun with it!)
You: Well, I was wondering if you could help me. Before I just ask you
for a particular dept, let me just tell you what it is that I do and
then maybe, with your experience, you can better direct me to the
right person or department. Is that ok?
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(Sometimes the operator will repeat your question in the form of a
statement for his or her own clarity.)
Operator: ...so, you need to get in contact with the dept which deals with
defaulted or non-performing mortgage notes, is that right?
You: Yes. I need to speak with the person or dept which focuses on the
selling of their discounted or non performing notes.
(At this point, the operator will either know who you need to talk
to (rarely) and connect you directly or they will sometimes (8
times out of 10!) put you on hold to ask someone higher up who
may be better familiarized with who or what you are looking for.
This is OK – you want them to go that extra mile for you!)
Now then, once you're connected to the appropriate person, here's the way an
example call might go:
(If they say: "We no longer sell," or "We don't sell defaulted or
non-performing notes", then congratulate them for successfully
getting those non-performers off their books and ask, "Would you
happen to know any other lenders or institutions that are currently
selling their non-performing paper?")
(If they indicate you're in the right place, then read on below…)
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You: Ok, great. Well, can you tell me what you currently have
available?
Principal: Well, we're putting out a tape in the next couple of weeks [a "tape
is a collection of notes and mortgages, usually assembled in an
Excel spreadsheet].
You: Got it. How many Notes are in it – and what is the UPB of the
package? [UPB stands for Unpaid Principal Balance – and means
the total amount outstanding on the Notes]
3. When you take bids, do you prefer fades or do you want an all-
in, no-fade bid? [Fade refers to the percent that a property has
declined in value since the time that the bank assessed its value –
usually indicated in the "tape" they send you]
*** At this point they will ask you to send them some info about
yourself/ your company. Have an answer prepared!
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A Call-to-Action
If you're like me, you sometimes skip to the end of a book before reading the
beginning!
Take a look at a little bit of the news in the markets today, this week, this
month. Ask yourself "Is money chasing banks' 'toxic' mortgages right now? Is
this really an opportunity that big institutions and investors are taking
advantage of?"
It absolutely is. There is rarely a week that goes by – let alone a day! – where
you don't read some news of the latest bank that went under, the "assets" that
But just remember two things (let these be the most important thing you take
and
So as you read about what's going on in the markets, remember that investors
are throwing big money at banks to buy their discounted bank notes. Don't
view those investors as your competition. They're actually good sources for
YOU to buy from. Deals flow from Big to Small: in other words, an investor
buys notes in a big "package" from a bank, and you can pick up an individual
So think of the news differently now. Every little piece of bank news is
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It's not rocket science. But you need to know what you're doing. So get out
there and learn the basics, and then start bidding on Notes!
Remember those numbers that the Fat Cats are throwing around: this is a $600
Billion opportunity.
How big is that? It's as big as the State of Connecticut: if everyone had a
then that would be the bucket that you and I and every other big and small
You just need to know how to find what's in that bucket, and then what to do
11
Assumes that the average mortgage size is $175,000 – as calculated across 34million
mortgages profiled in the OCC’s Mortgage Metrics Report for First Quarter 2009, available
here: http://www.occ.gov/ftp/release/2009-77.htm
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with what's in it. It will make some people extremely wealthy. Don't let this
and sign up now for THE SINGLE BEST NOTE BUYING resource available
anywhere. We'll take you buy the hand, coach you through the learning
process, and help you get started as a new investor to take advantage of
Yours,
Dean Engle
San Francisco, CA
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Contact Information
Notepublishing.com
d/b/a “Notebuyingprofits.com”
Corporate Offices:
425 Divisadero St, Suite 207
San Francisco, CA 94117
Phone: (415) 252-7997
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