ANIKET SINGH THAKUR Enroll. No. R19515031004
ANIKET SINGH THAKUR Enroll. No. R19515031004
PROJECT REPORT
On
"E-MARKETING"
SUBMITTED TO
BARKATULLAH UNIVERSITY, BHOPAL (M.P.)
IN PARTIAL FULLFILLMENT
OF THE DEGREE OF
BACHELOR OF BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION (BBA)
SESSION: - 2020-21
By
ANIKET SINGH THAKUR
ENROLLMENT NO. R19515031004
DEPARTMENT OF BBA
VISMT to the best of my knowledge the above dissertation is his own work and
it has not been submitted to Indore. She worked under my supervision for this
earlier.
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
with guidance help motivation and valuable advice at every stage for
Signature:
Name:
Roll No:
VIDYADAYINI INSTITUTE OF SCIENCE, MANAGEMENT
AND TECHNOLOGY BHOPAL (M.P.)
DEPARTMENT OF BBA
DECLARATION
I do hereby declare that the project work entitled "E-MARKETING"
Submitted by me for the partial fulfillment of the requirement for the award of
Plan, is an authentic work completed by me. The report being submitted has not
been submitted earlier for the award of any degree or diploma to any Institute or
University.
Date
Signature:
Name:
Roll No:
VIDYADAYINI INSTITUTE OF SCIENCE, MANAGEMENT
AND TECHNOLOGY BHOPAL (M.P.)
DEPARTMENT OF BBA
CERTIFICATION OF ORIGINALITY
This is to certify that the project report entitled "E-MARKETING"
requirement for the award of the degree of Bachelor of Plan, is an original work
student and has not been submitted whether to this University or to any other
study.
Sr.no. Topic
1 Introduction
1.1 Company profile
1.2 About the Topic
1.3 Objectives of Project
1.4 Detail about study
1.5 Literature review
2 Research methodology
2.1 Research objective
2.2 Research design
2.3 Method of Data collection
3 Data analysis & Interpretation
4 Limitations of the study
5 Benefits of Study
6 Future Prospects
7 Conclusion
8 Contribution & Learning from Project
9 Bibliography
10 Annexure
1. Introduction
Company Profile
Introduction
Hikeparleague is established in year 2010 with the aim of giving
services to students by organizing class level competition, judging
their aptitudes, making them capable to achieve their job. Giving
exposure to making them selected in interviews. Making them
capable so that they themselves evaluate their current scenario and
find best solution by their point of view.
Vision & ValuesVision
'The most successful and admired Online company, by providing
knowledge with top class competitive quality services to students.’
Values
Values that we observe while we work:
Integrity
Innovation
Student Care
Team work
Simplicity
Key Strengths
Quality
24x7 service
Background
Having goods and services marketed on the internet seems second
nature now, but actually internet marketing is a relatively new
phenomenon. When the internet first started and more of the public
began to access it, companies began to realize that they could utilize
the internet to provide information to potential customers. The first
examples of internet marketing were simply text websites. They were
very basic and simple with no pictures or graphics. As the internet
started to develop, more and more companies realized that they had a
global audience at their disposal. Websites became more complex.
They contained pictures of products and graphics intended to keep the
customer interested. When businesses first started going online in the
early to mid 1990s, commercial web sites were often nothing more
than online brochures and product catalogues. Although credit card
payment processing was available, Internet users were concerned
about putting their credit card details on the net, so relatively few
transactions occurred online. By our standards today, these first
websites seem archaic. However, they served their purpose as people
began to turn to the internet for information about companies and
what they had to offer. If someone wanted to buy something, they
would call the company on a phone number provided by the website.
Eventually, the technology existed so that companies could sell their
products right from their website. All these have changed with the
development of new encryption methods and secure site technology.
Online purchasing hasexploded in the past three years and is expected
to grow exponentially over the coming decade. Many of the Internet
marketing pioneers who began selling online five years ago have
become millionaires. Books and courses that reveal their Internet
marketing secrets are readily available for purchase. There’s never
been an easier time for starting an Internet business. E-commerce
began to grow very quickly once methods to securely provide your
credit card number became available. Consumers could now order
products right from their home. Companies could reach customers
all over the world. Online auction sites became very popular as
people could sell their items to each other for a small fee. There also
was an increased use of the internet as a source of advertising.
Companies began to place ads on other websites to promote their
products. Today pay per click advertisements benefit both the
publishers of the websites and the company which has goods to sell.
Affiliate programs are also very popular. They allow website owners
to advertise products on their website and if a customer purchases the
item, then the website owner gets a percentage of the sale. The
internet has even been used as a primary source of advertising.
Companies have created innovative advertising programs, sometimes
referred to as viral marketing. Viral marketing seeks to create a buzz
about a product through word of mouth. Some viral marketing plans
even use alternate reality games in order to promote a particular
product. The Internet is changing the way we do business, the way
we market, sell, service, distribute, communicate, and work.
Businesses are already beginning to communicate with customers,
distributors, suppliers, shareholders, and employees in a way that is
truly one-to-one and real-time. “Personalized” web sites are
delivering tailored messages to an infinite number of target markets.
These sites can change based on the user’s buying and surfing habits,
past usage of the site, demographics, relationship to the company, and
a multitude of other attributes which could be collected from the users
online or culled from corporate legacy databases. The Internet has
also become the most economical distribution system of information
available. Companies can ship “bits” weightless electrons around the
world at the speed of light, for a fraction of what it costs to ship
heavy “atoms” at the speed of freight. In just a few years the Internet
will be as essential of a business tool as what the phone and FAX are
today. Intranets, real-time transaction processing, and “customer self-
service” are just the beginning. We are transitioning from static sites
to dynamic and personalized sites, from broadcasting to narrow
Casting, from information dissemination to actual commerce. But, we
can also look forward to an “information glut” of unimaginable
proportions, Web sites that run into the millions of dollars to build
and maintain, and massive data warehouses about consumers that are
networked together across companies and continents. The big story of
the past few years has been the incredible rise in the mobile user base
in India. Growth now in terms of new user additions is the fastest in
the world. And there are plenty of new consumers still waiting to be
tapped. India has the potential to lead in mobile data usage. Given
that PC-based Internet growth has been slow (even though that is now
changing), the mobile Internet offers a great opportunity for service
providers in India. India has excellent mobile data networks on both
the GSM and CDMA platforms. In fact, given that the focus for the
operators is on new subscriber acquisition, the mobile data networks
potential has been largely untapped. Mobile phones with Wi-Fi are
already available for less than Rs.18,000. These prices will fall
further. Get a wireless access point at home and combine with a
broadband connection, and suddenly, the mobile can now access data
networks bypassing the operator and data charges. This will create the
opportunity for an increasing array of data services. It is the
incremental web which will be the driver for the mobile. If one stops
thinking of the mobile as a poor man’s computer and instead thinks of
it as a new interactive device, then the potential of what is possible
starts to become apparent. The future will see the emergence of such
innovative data services in India.
Concept of Marketing
“The Process of planning and executing the conception,
pricing promotion and distribution of ideas, goods and services to
create exchanges that satisfy individual and organizational goal.”
- American Marketing Association
Marketing management is analysis planning, implementationand
control of programs designed to create, build, maintain
mutually beneficial exchanged and relationship with target marketfor
the purpose of achieving organizational goal.
-Philip Kotler
Concept of E-Marketing
E-Marketing is the use of information technology in the processes of
creating, communicating and delivering value to customers managing
customer relations E-Marketing is the fusion of IT with traditional
marketing.
There is no doubt about it – the Internet has changed the world we
live in. Never before has it been so easy to access information,
communicate with people all over the globe and share articles,
videos, photos and all manner of media. The Internet has led to an
increasingly connected environment, and the growth of Internet usage
has resulted in declining distribution of traditional media: television,
radio, newspapers and magazines. Marketing in this connected
environment and using that connectivity to market is e- Marketing. E-
Marketing embraces a wide range of strategies, but what underpins
successful e-Marketing is a user-centric and cohesive approach to
these strategies. While the Internet and the World Wide Web have
enabled what we call New Media, the theories that lead to the
development of the Internet were being developed from 1950s.
Scope of Study
This study helps to understand the about the concept of e-Marketing.
The study will help the management of Hikepar League informing the
future policies regarding sales promotion strategy. This is like
descriptive method of understanding about how to promote your
products or services while using internet. It will also describe what
are the methods and strategies of e-Marketing with advantages and
disadvantages also.
Details about Study
Before we start detailed study about E-Marketing first try to
understand that why we need E-Marketing concept in today’s era.
Marketing through Internet is becoming very important. It is very cost
effective and measurable. And the main feature of it is Global reach
with 24x7x365 scenario with real-time feedback which attracts each
and everyone to use it.
Why E-marketing?
Exceptional opportunity for knowledge-rich organizations
Cost-effective to build a global brand & reputation
Instrument for business development
Many benefits
• Internal communication
• Knowledge management
• Market intelligence
• Project management
There are different forms of E-Marketing from themsome are
described below:
E-mail Marketing
Automatic digest, Flash alert, Newsletter / Electronic magazine
o Active promotion of website content
Key success factor:
o Development of permission-based mailing lists
Metrics:
o Open rate
o Click-through rate
o Conversion rate
Pay per Click Marketing
Ad copy and selecting the right keywords is essential, rather than,
deep pockets. Developing effective copy within a limited space is a
unique skill. You need to identify what the customer is thinking and
how he will try and find you. PPC charges are steadily increasing so
it's more important than ever to manage your campaigns effectively &
efficiently.
Blog Marketing
Just because a website looks like a website doesn't mean it's just a
website. It could be a blog too. Blogs have lots of great tools build
into them that make search engines like them a lot more than a static
website. Features like category tags, RSS feeds and the 'pinging' of
new content to other sites means you can't afford to ignore the value
of blogging as an internet marketing strategy.
Viral Marketing
Hot Mail was one of the first examples of viral marketing
Another “e” term for “word-of-mouth” advertising
Bulletin boards, e-mail, chat rooms are the major conduits
for viralcampaigns
Affiliate Marketing
This basically refers to selling other people’s product in
return for a commission. This is probably the fastest way
anyone can get started with earning money online. Not going
to explain how this is done as you’re going to find out how
later.
Partnership and affiliate programs are booming
Cooperation between online companies
Commission programs and banner exchange programs lead
this channel
Banner Advertising
Volatile history with sharply declining click through rates
New forms such as java, active x
Pop-ups, pop-under and other new delivery methods are
gaining acceptance
Branding is possible with banners
E-Marketing Mix
The e-Marketing Strategy is normally based and built upon the
principles that govern the traditional, offline Marketing - the well-
known 4 P's (Product - Price - Promotion - Positioning) that form the
classic Marketing mix. Add the extra 3 P's (People - Processes -
Proof) and you got the whole extended Marketing mix. Until here,
there are no much aspects to differentiate e-Marketing from the
traditional Marketing performed offline: the extended Marketing mix
(4 + 3 P's) is built around the concept of "transactional" and its
elements perform transactional functions defined by the exchange
paradigm. What gives e-Marketing its uniqueness is a series of
specific functions, relational functions, that can be synthesized in the
2P
+ 2C+ 3S formula: Personalization, Privacy, Customer Service,
Community, Site, Security, Sales Promotion.
These 7 functions of the e-Marketing stay at the base of any e
Marketing strategy and they have a moderating character, unlike the
classic Marketing mix that comprises situational functions only.
Moderating functions of e-Marketing have the quality of moderate
operate upon all situational functions of the mix (the classic 4 P's) and
upon each other.
1. Personalization
The fundamental concept of personalization as a part of the e-
Marketing mix lies in the need of recognizing, identifying a certain
customer in order to establish relations (Establishing relations is a
fundamental objective of Marketing). It iscrucial to be able to identify
our customers on individual level and gather all possible information
about them, with the purpose of knowing our market and be able to
develop customized, personalized products and services.
For example, a cookie strategically placed on the website visitor's
computer can let us know vital information concerning the access
speed available: in consequence, if we know the visitor is using a
slow connection (eg. dial-up) we will offer a low volume variation of
our website, with reduced graphic content and no multimedia or flash
applications. This will ease our customer's experience on our website
and he will be prevented from leaving the website on the reason that
it takes too long to load its pages.
Personalization can be applied to any component of the Marketing
mix; therefore, it is a moderating function.
2. Privacy
Privacy is an element of the mix very much connected to the
previous one - personalization. When we gather and store information
about our customers and potential customers (therefore, when we
perform the personalization part of the e-Marketing mix) a crucial
issue arises: that of the way this information will be used, and by
whom. A major task to do when implementing an e-Marketing
strategy is that of creating and developing a policy upon access
procedures to the collected information. This is a duty and a must for
any conscious marketer to consider all aspects of privacy, as long as
data are collected and stored, data about individual persons.
Privacy is even more important when establishing the e-Marketing
mix since there are many regulations and legal aspects to be
considered regarding collection and usage of such information.
3. Customer Service
Customer service is one of the necessary and required activities
among the support functions needed in transactional situations.
We will connect the apparition of the customer service processes to
the inclusion of the "time" parameter in transactions. When switching
from a situational perspective to a relational one, and e-Marketing is
mostly based on a relational perspective, the marketer saw himself
somehow forced into considering support and assistance on a non-
temporal level, permanently, over time. For these reasons, we should
consider the Customer Service function (in its fullest and largest
definition) as an essential one within the e- Marketing mix.
As we can easily figure out, the service (or assistance if you wish)
can be performed upon any element from the classic 4 P's, hence its
moderating character.
4. Community
We can all agree that e-Marketing is conditioned by the existence of
this impressive network that the internet is. The merely existence of
such a network implies that individuals as well as groups will
eventually interact. A group of entities that interact for a common
purpose is what we call a "community" and we will soon see why
it is of absolute importance to participate, to be part of a community.
The Metcalf law (named after Robert Metcalf) states that the value of
a network is given by the number of its components, more exactly the
value of a network equals the square of the number of components.
We can apply this simple law to communities, since they are a
network: we will then conclude that the value of a community rises
with the number of its members. This is the power of communities;
this is why we have to be a part of it. The customers / clients of a
business can be seen as part of a community where they interact
(either independent or influenced by the marketer) - therefore
developing a community is a task to be performed by any business,
even though it is not always seen as essential. Interactions among
members of such a community can address any of the other functions
of e-Marketing, so it can be placed next to other moderating
functions.
5. Site
We have seen and agreed that e-Marketing interactionstake place on a
digital media the internet. But such interactions and relations also
need a proper location, to be available at any moment and from any
place - a digital location for digital interactions.
Such a location is what we call a "site", which is the most widespread
name for it. It is now the time to mention that the "website" is merely
a form of a "site" and should not be mistaken or seen as synonyms.
The "site" can take other forms too, such as a Palm Pilot or any other
handheld device, for example. This special location, accessible
through all sort of digital technologies is moderating all other
functions of the e-Marketing - it is then a moderating function.
6. Security
The "security" function emerged as an essential function of e-
Marketing once transactions began to be performed through
internet channels. What we need to keep in mind as marketers are the
following two issues on security:- Security during transactions
performed on our website, where we have to take all possible
precautions that third parties will not be able to access any part of a
developing transaction;- Security of data collected and stored, about
our customers and visitors. A honest marketer will have to consider
these possible causes of further trouble and has to co-operate with the
company's IT department in order to be able to formulate convincing
messages towards the customers that their personal details are
protected from unauthorized eyes.
7. Sales Promotion
At least but not last, we have to consider sales promotions when we
build an e-Marketing strategy. Sales promotions are widely used in
traditional Marketing as well, we all know this, and it is an excellent
efficient strategy to achieve immediate sales goals in terms of
volume.
This function counts on the marketer's ability to think creatively: a lot
of work and inspiration is required in order to find new possibilities
and new approaches for developing an efficient promotion plan.
On the other hand, the marketer needs to continuously keep up with
the latest internet technologies and applications so that he can fully
exploit them. To conclude, we have seen that e-Marketing implies
new dimensions to be considered aside of those inherited from the
traditional Marketing. These dimensions revolve around the concept
of relational functions and they are a must to be included in any e-
Marketing strategy in order for it to be efficient and deliver results.
E Marketing Strategies
The Offer: Product strategies – Existing products sold
online ornew products offered to the customers
The Value: Pricing strategies – Dynamic pricing and
Onlinebidding
Distribution strategies – Direct marketing and Agent E
Businessmodels
Marketing Communication strategies
Relationship Management strategies – CRM software +
customerbehavior = comprehensive database
Your website needs a design and for this you need a web designer.
Correct web design, colors and correct placement of web elements on
your web page are important aspects for your site to succeed.
Remember to maintain a contact page which mentions your contact
details on the site have a sitemap and design the site for users. It is of
utmost importance that you keep search engine optimization factors
in mind. Have your pages titled. For more on this contact a web
designer.
If you are in business retail or manufacturing a good idea is to have
your site e-com enabled. You must have shopped on the internet, if
not you are among the chosen few. If you have you must be aware
of the shopping cart on the e-commerce site. The shopping cart
enables your visitors to manage their shopping well. You will need a
payment gateway and a merchant account to receive money for sales.
To test out your site integrate it with Paypal and try out the shopping
experience.
1. So your site seems to be ready now. Next step. Make your site
presentable and make it known. So we are now into advertising and
marketing of your website. Here note this that 95% of websites gets
visitors from referred from search engines. These search sites work
like a gateway to the internet world.
5. Give them options to sign up for your newsletter free. You get
their emails and use a mailer program to send out regular mails to
them.
Opportunities of E-Marketing
1. Incremental revenues
The internet is a level playing field in terms of sales and
marketing
Everyone can attract new clients through very targeted and
measurable marketing
Global distribution reach is available to all, not just the
majorbrands that have global networks
Also,
Internationally more than 33% of surfers buy online
E Marketing reduces prices
Huge potential for growth (70% rural population)
E Intermediaries
Affordable computers and internet connectivity
Desire of the customers
Cheaper technology
Purchasing variations
The three most common ways in which online advertising is
purchasedare :
CPM
CPC
CPA.
CPL
CPE
CPV (Cost Per Visitor) or (Cost per View in the case of PopUps and
Under)
Where advertisers pay for the delivery of a Targeted Visitor to
theadvertisers website.
Global Reach
Challenges
Data privacy or Data Protection
Low percentage of computer penetration
Internet connectivity
Low percentage of surfers entering into online transactions
Misuse of Credit cards
Cyber security
Cyber crime
Loss of personal touch in shopping
Legal issues (Trade mark, Domain name, Copyright,
Jurisdictionissues, etc.)
Mistaken purchases or auctions
Literature Review
4 P’s and additional 3 P’s of e-marketing
Conventional
Product : Physical item or service that a company is selling
Price : Amount the customer pays for the product
Place : How the product/service gets to the customer,
sometimes called “place” referring to “where” a
product/service is sold
Promotion : Any means of spreading the word about the
product
Additional
People : Right person, trained well, motivated
Process : Providing services to customers
Publishing : Case studies, testimonials
Cs of E-Marketing
Contract:
The e-marketer’s first goal is to communicate a core promise for a
truly distinctive value proposition appealing to the target customers.
Content:
It refers to whatever appears on the website itself and on hot linked
websites. If chosen appropriately, it can increase both the rates at
which browsers are converted into buyers and their transactions.
Construction:
The promises made by e-marketers are not unique to the Internet, but
the medium’s interactive capabilities make it easier for them to
deliver on their promises quickly, reliably, and rewardingly.
In practice, this means that promises must be translated into specific
interactive functions and Web design features collectively giving
consumers a seamless experience. Such design features as one- click
ordering and automated shopping help deliver the promise of
convenience.
Community:
Through site-to-user and user-to-user forms of interactivity (such as
chat rooms), e-marketers can develop a core of dedicated customers
who become avid marketers of the site too.
Concentration:
Targeting through online behavioral profiling. Advertisers have
known for some time that behavioral targeting is vastly superior to
simple demographic targeting. Knowledge of a consumer’s past
purchases interests, likes/dislikes, and behavior in general allows an
advertiser to target an advertisement much more effectively
Department stores have long kept track of consumers’ past purchases.
They are thus able to project what other types of products a consumer
might be interested in and then send an appropriate coupon or sale
offer. Credit card companies are the ultimate gatherers of behavioral
targeting information. They maintain vast databases of cardholders’
past transactions, and they sell lists of this data to advertisers. The
same type of behavioral model is forming on the Internet. Publishers
and advertisement networks monitor the items that a consumer has
expressed interest in or purchased on a site (or network of sites) in the
past and target advertisements based on this information.
Convergence:
We will soon enter the next round of the E-marketing battle as
broadband reaches the masses. The Internet will become more
ubiquitous and wireless; televisions will become more interactive;
video/data/voice appliances will converge; brand advertising and
direct marketing practices will integrate; domestic brands, commerce
and marketing will become even more global; and big marketing
spenders will spend more money online. Many companies that are
well positioned today will need to continue to evolve to take
advantage of the opportunities. The success of Internet advertising
companies will largely be driven by how they maneuver among the
coming developments. Rich media, brought on by broadband, will
allow advertisers much greater creativity by bringing in new types of
advertising to the Internet, as well as enhancing some of the more
traditional forms. Broadband technology will allow the convergence
of television and the Internet. Dubbed “interactive TV,” in its
simplest form, will consist of a television with some interactive
capabilities. Basically, a user will see a television screen that is three-
quarters traditional television, but with a frame that has Internet
capabilities. This frame will allow users to access up-to-the-minute
sports scores or news on the Web, for example. More importantly for
E- marketers, it would allow viewers to immediately leap to the
website of an advertiser whose ad was being shown. The user could
find outmore information or order the product right there.
Commerce:
The last emerging fundamental of e-marketing is commerce, whether
it includes offering goods and services directly, or marketing those of
another company for a fee, thus helping to cover the fixed costs of
site operations and to offset customer acquisition costs.
To be successful on the Internet, e-marketers will have to do more
than reproduce their off-line business models on line because these
business models work only at considerable scale. Interestingly, It is
possible for online marketers to be profitable even at lower sales
volume if they exploit efficiencies in e-Marketing and synergies with
the off-line business, with examples as follows.
Research objectives
To study how the satisfaction level at work affects the
customerdecision of being with organization.
To identify business opportunities in current scenario by
marketing using internet.
To identify how much students aware about Internet
To identify Marketing Strategies to be adopted for Hikepar
Leagueto launch a new business
Importance of detailed competitive analysis to develop future
business plan
To identify what type of adverb tenements actually students
preferred
Research design
This project is done with the view of understanding the
workings of advertising at “Hikepar League” of pre-impact
ofthe advertisements on the targeted audiences.
The advertisement recall study method is adopted to
understand the effectiveness of the advertisement which
should be effective.
“A research design is the arrangement of conditions for
collection and analysis of data in a manner that aims to
combine relevance to the research purpose with economy in
procedure”
The study was conducted on the basis of list of respondents
who were targeted for vehicle brand. From that customer
preference were collected and were enable to cover almost all
the leading brands. This
was the research design for the project.
Method of data collection
Primary Data
The study mainly depends on primary data. Questionnaire method
will used to collect data.
Questionnaire Method: A questionnaire was distributed to number of
employees belonging to two different branches of the organization.
They were requested to fill up the form & return it. Data was
collected from these received forms.
PRIMARY DATA
By Survey:
This method implies the collection of information by asking or filling
survey form from students. The information obtained relates to what
is currently happening and is not complicated by either the past
behavior or future intentions or attitudes of respondents.
Sample Space:-
The total sample space for my questionnaire part was 10
Data Collected from the college students of Diploma Engineering of
MS University.
Data analysis & Interpretation
This is my Project through which I can give my own ability and creativity for
building any kind of business plan. I worked to build “Hikepar league” a new
venture first time in India. I have given idea about what type of quality services
customers really needs, which are not properly served by others. I have
contributed by giving survey report before launching the plan, so company can
have idea about how much ahead they can go.
This project has learnt me a lot about a real marketing under guidance of
corporate leaders. I have learnt how to deal with others, how to promote offers,
& company also. I have learnt new strategies of marketing and building Brand
image.
Bibliography
Websites
www.google.com
www.doubleclick.com
www.emarketing.com
Note: This questionnaire is for the purpose of data collection for the
collegeproject for summer training Project in M.B.A.
(1) How much you aware about Internet?
Fully
Better
Moderate
Little
None
(2) How many times you use internet in a month?
Daily
Weekly
15 days
Monthly
(3) For which reason you surf Internet mostly?
Entertainment
Informative
E-Mail / Social Networking sites / Chatting
Soft wares
Not Applicable
(4) Have you taken part in any competitive exam?
(a)Yes (b) No
(a)Yes (b) No
Newspaper
Radio
TV
Internet
(8) On Internet which ad attracts you?
Text Ad
Pop Up Ad
Flash Ad
Banner Ad
Not Applicable
(9) Which one type of study material will you choose if you are
givenboth?