Case Study 29 - Transcript - Jehovahs Witnesses - Day 152 - 04082015

ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONAL
RESPONSES TO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE
Public Hearing - Case Study 29

(Day 152)
Level 17, Governor Macquarie Tower

Farrer Place, Sydney
On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 10am
Before
The Chair: Justice Peter McClellan AM
Commissioner: Professor Helen Milroy
Counsel Assisting: Mr Angus Stewart SC
.04/08/2015 (152) 15640

Transcript produced by DTI
1 MR STEWART: As your Honour pleases, the next witness is
2 Mr Allan Pencheff. His witness statement should be at
3 tab 6 of the statements bundle and I believe that is
4 Mr Pencheff, appearing from Brisbane on video.
5
6 MR PENCHEFF: Yes.
7
8 THE CHAIR: Mr Pencheff, can you hear me?
9
10 MR PENCHEFF: Yes.
11
12 THE CHAIR: It will be necessary for you to be sworn. Do
13 you have a Bible there?
14
15 MR PENCHEFF: I do, yes.
16
17 <ALLAN CHRISTOPHER PENCHEFF, sworn: [10.05am]
18
19 <EXAMINATION BY MR STEWART:
20
21 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Pencheff, would you state your full
22 name, please?
23 A. Allan Christopher Pencheff.
24
25 Q. Do you have a copy of your statement for the
26 Royal Commission dated 10 July 2015 available to you?
27 A. I do, yes.
28
29 Q. Are there any corrections you wish to make to that
30 statement?
31 A. In terms of corrections, I - having read over the
32 documents you have provided, it has brought back to my mind
33 some information that I hadn't recalled, but not in terms
34 of corrections, no.
35
36 Q. So the point is, you would say more, now, than what
37 you said, but not say it differently; is that it?
38 A. Yeah, as I said, that information reminded me of what
39 happened 12 years ago, whereas, it had been in my memory,
40 quite dull at the time of the statement.
41
42 Q. Thank you for that. Perhaps some of that detail will
43 emerge in the things I am to ask you about. Do you, then,
44 confirm your statement as true and correct?
45 A. Yes.
46
47 MR STEWART: I tender the statement, your Honour.
.04/08/2015 (152) 15641 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

1
2 THE CHAIR: That will be exhibit 29-018.
3
4 EXHIBIT #29-018 STATEMENT OF ALLAN CHRISTOPHER PENCHEFF
5 DATED 10/07/2015
6
7 MR STEWART: Q. You have been a Jehovah's Witness for
8 the past 41 years, as I understand it; is that right?
9 A. That's correct.
10
11 Q. How did you come to be a Jehovah's Witness?
12 A. I was contacted when I was 19 in the door-to-door
13 ministry that the Witnesses conduct and started Bible
14 study. I then studied the Bible with them for a period of
15 time, was convinced of what I was being taught and, in
16 turn, became a baptised, dedicated Witness.
17
18 Q. When were you first appointed an elder, Mr Pencheff?
19 A. I don't remember the exact date, but I would say it
20 would be around 35 years ago. I was baptised in 1973, so
21 I'm thinking it was about six years later.
22
23 Q. So about 1979 or so?
24 A. In that time frame, yes.
25
26 Q. Have you served continuously as an elder since then?
27 A. Yes.
28
29 Q. What is your current congregation, Mr Pencheff?
30 A. Manly, Queensland.
31
32 Q. For how long have you served as an elder in that
33 congregation?
34 A. Seven years.
35
36 Q. How big is that congregation?
37 A. Approximately 100 publishers.
38
39 Q. Do you recall the dates on which you were an elder in
40 the Loganholme congregation?
41 A. I was there for 14 years. I left in 2005. So I guess
42 that takes it, what, back to around 1991 through to 2005.
43
44 Q. How big was that congregation when you served there?
45 A. I think around - between 120 to 150.
46
47 Q. Thank you. In your statement, Mr Pencheff, at

1 paragraph 4.1, you say that, to the best of your
2 recollection, you have only dealt with a couple of cases of
3 child sexual abuse within the church in your time, "as they
4 are a very rare event amongst Jehovah's Witnesses". Now,
5 you will have heard that it has been presented in these
6 proceedings that there were 1,006 alleged perpetrators of
7 child sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witness Church in
8 65 years - did you hear that?
9 A. Yes, I did see that.
10
11 Q. And in respect of a substantial number of those
12 alleged perpetrators, there may be several allegations; do
13 you accept that?
14 A. Sorry, can you repeat that, sorry?
15
16 Q. In respect of substantial numbers, or at least some of
17 those alleged perpetrators, there may be several
18 allegations, in other words, more than one case.
19 A. So more than one person accusing the perpetrator; is
20 that what you are saying?
21
22 Q. Yes.
23 A. I guess so. I wouldn't know.
24
25 Q. But even on the figure of 1,006, that amounts to
26 15 perpetrators per year, on average, which is more than
27 one a month. On that basis, would you still say that it's
28 an extremely rare event amongst Jehovah's Witnesses?
29 A. Considering the number of congregations and the number
30 of cases, yes.
31
32 Q. If we look specifically at [BCG]'s case, as
33 I understand it, you were an elder at the Loganholme
34 congregation when [BCH] - that's [BCG]'s father - joined
35 that congregation; is that right?
37
38 Q. He came to you from St George, after he had been
39 reinstated by Mareeba; is that right?
40 A. I believe so, yes.
41
42 Q. As I understand it, you then came to chair a judicial
43 committee at Loganholme looking into the possible
44 disfellowshipping of [BCH] once again; is that right?
45 A. Yes.
46
47 Q. I would like you to have a look at tab 40?

1 A. Yes.
2
3 Q. If yours is the same as mine, that would be a letter
4 dated 1 November 2002 from Watchtower Australia to the
5 presiding overseer at Loganholme; is that the one you have?
6 A. It is, yes.
7
8 Q. That was in the period that you were an elder at
9 Loganholme. This particular letter is addressed to "Dear
10 Brother Harrop". Was he the presiding overseer at that
11 time?
12 A. Yes, he was.
13
14 Q. Did you become aware of this letter?
15 A. Yes.
16
17 Q. You will see on the second page the branch - sorry,
18 before you go to the second page, just looking at the first
19 page, who do you understand this letter to be coming from
20 at the branch?
21 A. In terms of individual or persons, there's no person's
22 name attached. It usually would come from the service
23 department.
24
25 Q. Do you see it says "LLC", the reference that is given
26 at the top, next to the date?
27 A. Yes.
28
29 Q. Do you know what that reflects?
30 A. No.
31
32 Q. But you would expect that it would come from the
33 service department?
34 A. Yeah, the service department in the branch.
35
36 Q. You will see that the branch says:
37
38 We are writing to you in connection with
39 Brother [BCH] who we understand associates
40 with the Loganholme Congregation. [He] was
41 disfellowshipped in the Mareeba
42 Congregation in 1989 and reinstated in
43 1992 ...
44
45 And then it goes on in the second paragraph to mention that
46 he "has recently been prosecuted for sexually interfering
47 with two of his daughters some years ago". Then various

1 aspects of the history are set out. But now, if you look
2 at the second page and the third-last paragraph, the one
3 that begins "Two elders" - do you see that?
4 A. Yes.
5
6 Q. So it says:
7
8 Two elders should be appointed to approach
9 Brother [BCH] and inform him that they are
10 aware that he has been charged by two of
11 his daughters ... of sexually molesting
12 them. The elders should also inform him
13 that they are aware it is a matter of
14 public record ...
15
16 And so it goes on. Were you then one of the two elders who
17 was appointed to look into this matter?
18 A. I was.
19
20 Q. Was that the cause of a judicial committee then being
21 established?
22 A. Yes.
23
24 Q. That's a judicial committee you served on?
26
27 Q. If you would then look at tab 41, on the face of it,
28 it is a memorandum from Legal, V Toole, to the service
29 department, 23 January 2003. I take it this didn't come to
30 your attention at that time, back when you were dealing
31 with the matter?
32 A. No, that was a branch memorandum; it wasn't sent to
33 the congregation.
34
35 Q. If one looks at the last paragraph on page 3, the
36 legal department is saying, as I understand it - and I want
37 to know what your understanding was at the time - that the
38 charge against [BCH] for your judicial committee was one of
39 lying; is that right? Do you see the last sentence says:
40
41 The primary issue before present committee
42 is the charge of lying.
43
44 A. Yeah, that's correct. The initial allegations by
45 [BCG] had already been established, so we were dealing with
46 whether he was continuing to tell the truth.
47

1 Q. I will come back to what had been established and what
2 hadn't in a moment. Would you take a look at tab 42. This
3 is the form, being the formal record of his now second
4 disfellowshipping - that's [BCH]'s - on 11 March 2003; is
5 that correct?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7
8 Q. I take it that that is your signature at the foot of
9 the page?
10 A. It is, yes.
11
12 Q. You were chairman of that judicial committee?
14
15 Q. In the middle of the page it sets out the reasons for
16 the disfellowshipping?
17 A. Yes.
18
19 Q. The previous disfellowshipping - that's the one in
20 1989 - was, amongst other things, in respect of child
21 sexual abuse against one of his daughters, [BCG]; is that
22 right?
23 A. I wasn't - I have - I believe so based on what I've
24 read, yes.
25
26 Q. And you disfellowshipped him now for lying; is that
27 right?
28 A. Yes. Yes, lying in relation to the allegations his
29 daughter was making.
30
31 Q. So in your reasons you say he denies the child abuse
32 allegations of his three daughters and lies about it; is
33 that right?
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. So you, as I understood it, accepted that the child
37 abuse allegations in respect of the other daughters were
38 true?
39 A. Well, in this instance, there were three individuals
40 making the same claim, so on the basis of that, we were
41 forced to believe that it was true, yes.
42
43 Q. So you accepted the evidence that was presented to you
44 in relation to that and accepted that he had abused
45 daughters in addition to [BCG]?
46 A. Based on their three testimonies, yes, but we - the
47 courts would later establish that legally.

1
2 Q. Are you able to explain why the allegations by the
3 other daughters were not considered for the
4 disfellowshipping - in other words, why was he not
5 disfellowshipped the second time for, as it would be put,
6 I understand, porneia, in relation to his other two
7 daughters, rather than for lying?
8 A. In the letter from the branch it asked us just to
9 leave the other allegations from the other daughter until
10 the legal case had been finalised. We were mainly to look
11 at his current honesty with regard to what had happened
12 and, as a result, when we questioned him, we felt we didn't
13 have to wait to disfellowship him after it had been legally
14 established; we could take action now on the basis of him
15 lying about it.
16
17 Q. Then, if we have a look at tab 43, which is a document
18 dated 23 March 2002, and it has three names across the
19 bottom, including two signatures. I see there is not
20 a signature adjacent to your name. Was this, nevertheless,
21 the recorded decision of your judicial committee?
22 A. Yes, that's an expanded explanation.
23
24 Q. Notwithstanding your signature is not there, are we to
25 understand that you engaged in and supported the reasons
26 that are set out in this document?
27 A. Absolutely.
28
29 Q. Are you aware whether you signed another copy of the
30 document?
31 A. No, I am surprised I haven't signed this one and
32 I can't - I wouldn't - it must have just been an oversight.
33
34 Q. Did you, as chair of that committee, actually write
35 the document?
36 A. I believe so, yes.
37
38 Q. So there is no respect in which you disagree with it?
39 A. No, no, I fully agree with it.
40
41 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Pencheff, a moment ago you said that
42 you were forced to the conclusion that he was lying, and in
43 this document you see towards the end of it you say, if you
44 look at it with me:
45
46 ... we had no choice but to disfellowship
47 him.

1
2 What are you meaning? Are you saying that it was difficult
3 to come to that conclusion, or what?
4 A. No, not at all. As you know, we use the Bible
5 principle of there being two or three witnesses to an
6 allegation. In this case, there were three, so that drew
7 us to what was a logical conclusion that something had
8 happened, and we then decided that rather than wait any
9 longer, we could remove him from the congregation to
10 protect him and any other potential victims - or protect
11 the congregation, rather, or any other potential victims.
12 So we were - we weren't hesitant; we were just looking for
13 the right grounds based on the direction we had been given
14 at the time.
15
16 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Pencheff, just in relation to what
17 you said a few minutes ago about why your judicial
18 committee did not investigate the complaints of abuse of
19 the other daughters, and your answer was that you had been
20 instructed by the branch to leave those alone because they
21 were the subject of the criminal trial - at least that's as
22 I understood you; is that right?
23 A. Yes. If you go back to the document, the first letter
24 that you read or you commented on --
25
26 Q. That's at tab 40.
27 A. Tab 40, yes.
28
29 Q. The letter of 1 November 2002.
30 A. That's correct. Yes.
31
32 Q. Yes. And what are you referring to in that letter?
33 A. I will just go through. At the top of the page, the
34 first paragraph, it said:
35
36 We do not want you to follow-up on the
37 matter involving [BCG] since it has already
38 been handled to the extent possible at this
39 stage. We simply provide it as background
40 information to assist you to be aware of
41 the kind of actions that Brother [BCH] has
42 exhibited in connection with past
43 wrongdoing.
44
45 And then it says:
46
47 As mentioned already, Brother [BCH] has

1 pleaded guilty to sexually abusing another
2 of his daughters, [BCL]. We understand
3 that the incident occurred in 1988 when
4 ... was approximately 6 years of age.
5
6 Et cetera. Then:
7
8 This is the first we have heard of this
9 accusation --
10
11 A little further down --
12
13 which, we understand, has never been
14 handled. We therefore want the elders in
15 your congregation to handle the matter and
16 we suggest that you proceed in the
17 following manner.
18
19 Two elders should be appointed to approach
20 Brother [BCH] and inform him that they are
21 aware that he has been charged by two of
22 his daughters ... of sexually molesting
23 them. The elders should also inform him
24 that they are aware that it is a matter of
25 public record that he has entered a plea of
26 guilty to three charges of sexual assault
27 ... and to one charge of sexually
28 interfering with [one of his daughters]
29 when she was 6 years of age. He should be
30 asked to explain his actions. We would
31 like to think that he would be forthcoming
32 with sufficient information to enable the
33 matter to be handled judicially. If he is
34 not prepared to cooperate and provide the
35 elders with an admission of his wrongdoing,
36 even though he has already done so on
37 public record, he should be told that when
38 he is sentenced on January 24, 2003,
39 without any further contact with the
40 elders, he will likely be
41 disfellowshipped ...
42
43 Once the two brothers have met ... we would
44 like them to contact the legal department
45 before proceeding any further ... If you
46 have any questions ... please do not
47 hesitate to contact us.

1
2 I think a bit earlier there were some comments, too.
3
4 Q. Mr Pencheff, the bits that you've read, including the
5 bit that you cut short at the end of the last sentence you
6 read, which said "he will likely be disfellowshipped for
7 sexually abusing [BCL]", in other words, another daughter
8 as a child, as well as for being dishonest, seems to
9 suggest that the branch was telling you that you should now
10 handle the matter that had not previously been handled, in
11 other words, the abuse of [BCL] - in other words --
12 A. I will just read back a little further, because
13 I didn't highlight the point, but I felt in that letter the
14 direction was clear. Just give me a moment. I think
15 I was - had reference to that - the first paragraph that
16 I read, that we weren't to follow up on the matter
17 regarding [BCG]:
18
19 We provide this as background to assist you
20 to be aware of the kind of action that he
21 has exhibited.
22
23 The second daughter was not involved with Jehovah's
24 Witnesses at the time and the matter was before the courts,
25 so based on that, it wasn't - we were to leave it to when
26 the court took action, to make that final decision. So we
27 were more looking at his honesty in this particular
28 instance as opposed to dealing with the second allegation.
29
30 Q. It certainly suggests, Mr Pencheff, doesn't it, that
31 in the view that your judicial committee took of matters,
32 a charge of dishonesty is more serious and pressing to be
33 investigated and resolved than a charge of sexual abuse of
34 a daughter?
35 A. No, the two go hand in hand. We were looking at his
36 honesty in regard to the sexual abuse of the daughter. We
37 weren't looking at whether he stole something from the
38 corner shop; we were talking about some serious allegations
39 to which he had already confessed and now was denying, so
40 we were very serious about that matter. But we were
41 leaving the legal side of it, or the legal system to
42 establish it legally. We couldn't establish it by talking
43 to his second daughter, because she wasn't one of Jehovah's
44 Witnesses at the time, so we had to go by what the legal
45 system would come up with and what the gentleman involved
46 here was prepared to say about it. But the two were
47 extricably [sic] linked. We weren't divorcing one from the

1 other.
2
3 Q. I have to say that your professed seriousness with
4 regard to how you dealt with the question of the abuse of
5 [BCL] is not supported by the reasons that you gave.
6 A. In what way?
7
8 Q. It put the dishonesty front and centre and not the
9 sexual abuse.
10 A. But can't you see that the two are the same, it's
11 dishonesty in regard to that, and we left the matter to the
12 legal system to establish it legally?
13
14 Q. Perhaps we will leave that, Mr Pencheff, as a matter
15 for submissions in due course. Can I ask you to have
16 a look at tab 46. This is a letter that came from the
17 branch in May of 2006 to the judicial committee at
18 Loganholme, but on the basis of what you told us earlier,
19 am I to understand that you had left Loganholme by that
20 time?
21 A. Yes, I left in 2005, so I never saw this
22 correspondence.
23
24 Q. There is further correspondence with regard to the
25 Camira congregation, and then subsequently the Kalamunda
26 congregation, from where [BCH] was seeking reinstatement.
27 I take it you were not involved in any of that?
28 A. No. After 2005, that would have been all handled by
29 the then Body of Elders in Loganholme.
30
31 Q. Do you nevertheless know what the ultimate outcome has
32 been? In other words, has [BCH] been reinstated, or not?
33 A. To my understanding, no.
34
35 MR STEWART: Thank you, your Honour. Those are my
36 questions.
37
38 THE CHAIR: Does anyone else have any questions?
39
40 MS DAVID: No, your Honour.
41
42 MR COYNE: Yes, your Honour.
43
44 <EXAMINATION BY MR COYNE:
45
46 MR COYNE: Q. For the record, my name is Coyne.
47 I represent Mr Pencheff and others. Could we bring up
.04/08/2015 (152) 15651 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Coyne)

1 tab 46, please. You have a copy of that, do you?
2 A. I do, yes.
3
4 Q. That was the letter that you were just directed to?
5 A. Yes.
6
7 Q. Your committee disfellowshipped [BCH] in 2003; is that
8 right?
9 A. Yes.
10
11 Q. So if you look at that letter, if you go to the
12 second-last paragraph of the first page, that is what is
13 stated there at the beginning of that paragraph:
14
15 [BCH] was disfellowshipped again in 2003.
16
17 A. That's correct, yes.
18
19 Q. If you then go to the following paragraph, it says:
20
21 After corresponding with the branch office,
22 the judicial committee decided to
23 disfellowship him on the charge of lying.
24 The S-77 report stated that he "has
25 continued to change his story depending on
26 what he thinks is the most expedient at the
27 time" and that on 3 separate occasions he
28 denied the charges but later confessed.
29 They wrote ...
30
31 When they say "they wrote", that's talking about your
32 committee; is that correct?
33 A. Yes, that's a quotation from those earlier documents.
34
35 Q. And you have said:
36
37 ... he "has 3 daughters claiming he
38 molested them and he continues to deny
39 their claims and lies about it to the
40 judicial committee and law courts to suit
41 his own ends". Although the judicial
42 committee were aware of further allegations
43 of sexual abuse being raised by two other
44 daughters, it appears that they did not
45 make any statements to the elders at the
46 time. Apparently, they received legal
47 advice not to disclose this information as
.04/08/2015 (152) 15652 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Coyne)

1 it may have prejudiced the legal case
2 against their father.
3
4 Correct?
5 A. Yes, that's what it reads, yes.
6
7 Q. Is that your understanding of the advice received by
8 the committee when you were dealing with this matter?
9 A. Yes.
10
11 Q. At the next paragraph, it says:
12
13 In summary, it is our understanding that
14 the allegations of sexual abuse made
15 against Mr [BCH] have been clearly
16 substantiated.
17
18 A. Right, yes.
19
20 Q. That's your understanding of the view of the
21 committee?
22 A. Yes, definitely.
23
24 MR COYNE: Thank you. Nothing further, your Honour.
25
26 THE CHAIR: Thank you, Mr Pencheff. That concludes your
27 evidence and you are excused.
28
29 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
30
31 <THE WITNESS WITHDREW
32
33 MR STEWART: Your Honour, the next witness will be
34 Mr Rodney Spinks.
35
36 THE CHAIR: Mr Spinks, it will be necessary to have you
37 sworn to tell the truth. I see you have a Bible with you;
38 is that right.
39
40 MR SPINKS: Yes
41
42 <RODNEY PETER SPINKS, sworn: [10.35am]
43
45
46 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Spinks, would you state your full
47 name, please?
.04/08/2015 (152) 15653 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

1 A. Rodney Peter Spinks.
2
3 Q. Do you have a copy of your statement for the
4 Royal Commission dated 10 July 2015?
5 A. Yes.
6
7 Q. Are there any amendments you wish to make to the
8 statement?
9 A. No.
10
11 Q. Do you confirm the statement to be true and correct?
12 A. Yes.
13
15
17
18 EXHIBIT #29-019 STATEMENT OF RODNEY PETER SPINKS DATED
19 10/07/2015
20
21 MR STEWART: Q. What is your current occupation,
22 Mr Spinks?
23 A. I'm a full-time volunteer minister at the headquarters
24 of Jehovah's Witnesses here in Sydney.
25
26 Q. In particular, what position or role do you occupy at
27 those headquarters?
28 A. In the service department, caring for service desk
29 responsibilities as a senior service desk member.
30
31 Q. Are you the senior service desk member?
32 A. We explain it that way so everyone can understand it.
33 I'm the longest serving, consulted by other service desks.
34 I have no different title but, yes, the senior service
35 desk.
36
37 Q. That's a full-time responsibility, is it?
38 A. Correct.
39
40 Q. Is that an employed position?
41 A. No, no salary. I'm provided with accommodation, basic
42 necessities. No salary.
43
44 Q. Is that through being a member, or are you a member of
45 the worldwide Order of Special Full-Time Servants of
46 Jehovah's Witnesses?

1
2 Q. That's an organisation that provides for people in
3 full-time positions such as yourself; is that right?
5
6 Q. So do you live at the branch office premises?
7 A. Yes, my wife and I have a room there.
8
9 Q. Is there some sort of stipend attached to that?
10 A. Around $10 per day, yes, for - to cover incidental
11 personal hygiene expenses, et cetera.
12
13 Q. As I understand it, you have been at the branch office
14 since 2007; is that right?
16
17 Q. And you have been associated with the Jehovah's
18 Witnesses since 1965?
19 A. Yes, that's when my parents first became Jehovah's
20 Witnesses.
21
22 Q. And you were baptised as a member of the Jehovah's
23 Witnesses more than 40 years ago?
24 A. Yes.
25
26 Q. Would it be fair to say that membership of the
27 Jehovah's Witnesses has been a defining feature of your
28 whole life?
29 A. Absolutely.
30
31 Q. You served as a ministerial servant from the early
32 1980s; is that right?
33 A. Yes.
34
35 Q. And as a congregation elder since 1987?
36 A. Yes.
37
38 Q. In your statement, you say you were a member of the
39 Beenleigh East congregation from 1978 to 1990. When were
40 you an elder there, at Beenleigh East?
41 A. I was first appointed as an elder in Beenleigh.
42
43 Q. And when was that?
44 A. I think from recollection it was 1987.
45
46 Q. Do you recall when it was in 1990 that you left
47 Beenleigh?

1 A. Yes. September/October 1990 I moved to
2 North Queensland.
3
4 Q. You have mentioned there is a service desk at the
5 branch office. How many people work at the service desk?
6 A. In the eight and a half, nine years I have been there,
7 it has varied according to workload. Recently, five
8 members specifically service desk. It has been more, but
9 currently five.
10
11 Q. How many people work at the branch office in total?
12 A. Again, it varies. They are all volunteers. Between
13 350 to 400 at any time.
14
15 Q. How many are actually accommodated there?
16 A. Most of those. We have a few commuters, but the
17 majority of those would be accommodated there.
18
19 Q. So since 10 July and now, 4 August, has the number of
20 people at the service desk changed considerably?
21 A. No, not "considerably". I think one older member has
22 gone to other duties, but it has been a similar number in
23 the time that I've been there - maybe one or two more at
24 various times.
25
26 Q. Perhaps you can clarify for me, is there a distinction
27 between the service department and the service desk?
28 A. A small distinction. The service department is the
29 entire group that effectively interface with the
30 congregations. So the duties all relate to what we would
31 call the service or ministry. So the five I have spoken of
32 specifically deal with congregation spiritual-type matters,
33 but we have a desk, an assistant caring for conventions,
34 for the formation of new congregations, for maintenance of
35 the jw.org website, et cetera.
36
37 Q. And the legal department, is that separate from the
38 service department?
39 A. It's located separately within the branch office
40 there, with its own staff.
41
42 Q. So what other departments are there beside service and
43 legal?
44 A. So there is - we have a large printery, so there is
45 a significant number of the volunteers that are engaged
46 with our large printing presses. We have a large shipping
47 department, where - trucks coming and going and literature

1 coming in and out. In addition, we obviously have
2 a graphics department for the preparation of materials.
3 A number of support services - large housekeeping
4 contingency, we have a large kitchen and dining room that
5 are all well staffed. We have volunteer engineering,
6 gardening, et cetera, and we also have a large design/build
7 office for construction of Kingdom Halls and branch offices
8 in the regions. So they are all - that's just a few of the
9 departments. There are others, too.
10
11 Q. The 350 to 400 volunteers who reside at the branch
12 headquarters, if I might refer to it as that, are they
13 separately members of congregations, or is there
14 a congregation there? What do they do for their ordinary
15 weekly worship?
16 A. They are all members of different congregations,
17 I guess from Sydney City to Penrith to - down to
18 Wollongong. So a few in each congregation within
19 travelling distance.
20
21 Q. Can you explain, what is the responsibility of the
22 service department as a whole and, in particular,
23 distinguishing it from the legal department?
24 A. So how we would define it, internally, and I'm happy
25 to expand on that, but the service department deals with
26 the theocratic or spiritual aspects, particularly of the
27 work. The primary role of the legal department is
28 obviously there are corporations, there are property
29 issues, et cetera, and also advice in relation to legal
30 matters that the service department might deal with. So
31 there is certainly an integration between the legal
32 department and the service department on some matters.
33
34 Q. Perhaps you can help me, because in some of the
35 correspondence it's not clear - to me at least - who it has
36 come from, who has generated it. So a number of the
37 documents or correspondence have the initials "SD". What
38 are we to understand that to refer to?
39 A. That certainly comes out of the service department.
40
41 Q. But not necessarily the service desk?
42 A. No.
43
44 Q. And in others, sometimes in combination with "SD",
45 there are the initials "SSA". How are we to understand
46 that?
47 A. So work flow related, so depending on what work flow

1 an individual is working on, it's all electronic now, the
2 work flow comes in electronically and out electronically,
3 so it's what I would refer to as a work flow assignment
4 method for distributing the work around the department.
5
6 Q. This particular initial "SSA" goes back a long time, I
7 imagine long before it was all digitally or electronically
8 done, but perhaps I'm wrong. Can you just explain that,
9 because there is "SSA", I've seen "SSD", "SSG", "SSB". Are
10 those particular individuals given that cypher, or how does
11 it work?
12 A. It would certainly be a particular individual on a day
13 or a week, perhaps a month. The work flow, for example,
14 that I've generated in the time that I've been there has
15 been with four or five different desk symbols, depending on
16 which particular work. But it's true to say that on
17 a particular day the department would know who is handling
18 the SSA work flow.
19
20 Q. So if there was a particular letter on a particular
21 date which said "SD:SSA", you would be able to go back and
22 know who was responsible for that letter?
23 A. I would know who did it now, and probably in recent
24 history. It would be extremely difficult to work out which
25 individual - one, whether they are still there, and, two,
26 which individual it was that was using that desk symbol at
27 the time, but that would be possible.
28
29 Q. Some of the documents have the letters "CA" on them.
30 What does that represent?
31 A. I believe it relates to correspondence. It's not one
32 I've commonly seen, but I believe that that is a general
33 correspondence desk, meaning when general inquiries come
34 in.
35
36 Q. Would you take a look at tab 26. You will see that
37 this is a disfellowshipping or disassociation S-77 form in
38 relation to [BCH] recording the date that he was
39 disfellowshipped and later reinstated. It has in the top
40 right-hand corner "CA 18 Jan 1993". What are we to make of
41 that stamp?
42 A. That's the elder that opened the mail on the day.
43 Each letter that came in physically would be opened by the
44 elder at the correspondence desk, and he has date stamped
45 it. So that would be whoever was opening correspondence on
46 18 January 1993.
47

1 Q. But the "CA" representing that it was the
2 correspondence desk, or representing that it was
3 a particular elder?
4 A. To my knowledge - sorry.
5
6 Q. Carry on.
7 A. To my knowledge, there has only ever been, certainly
8 in my time - it's not a large task - one elder opening the
9 mail, so whoever it was at that time, that's certainly way
10 before my time, but it would have been the elder who was
11 opening the mail that day.
12
13 Q. So that's really to be taken as a receipt stamp for
14 when the particular document arrived at, or at least was
15 opened at the branch office?
16 A. Yes, primarily as a date stamp to say that's the date
17 we received it.
18
19 Q. Now, "SSB", I take it is another work flow
20 designation, as with "SSA"; is that right?
22
23 Q. And "LLC"?
24 A. "LLC" would generally be from the legal department, if
25 it starts with an L.
26
27 Q. And then "LLB" similarly, I assume?
28 A. Yes.
29
30 Q. And "LLF"?
31 A. Yes.
32
33 Q. What about "SF"?
34 A. That would be out of the service department.
35
36 Q. On the same basis as "SSB" or "SSA", or designating
37 something different?
38 A. Just - I'm not sure why the different designation
39 there. Sometimes, the additional symbol related to an
40 elder who was a secretary. That has not been constant.
41 But "SF" is definitely a service department desk symbol
42 that has been used.
43
44 Q. I would like to take you to paragraph 26 of your
45 statement. You will see you say there:
46
47 If congregation elders become aware of

1 a child abuse allegation, they are
2 instructed to contact the Legal Department
3 in relation to reporting requirements and
4 then the call is transferred to the Service
5 Department.
6
7 So just to understand that, does that mean that if the
8 authorities are to be informed, that is a matter for the
9 legal department to advise on, and not the service
10 department; is that right?
12
13 Q. So the service department does not involve itself in
14 giving advice with regard to informing authorities?
15 A. Correct.
16
17 Q. So would there be any circumstances, in your
18 experience, in which the service desk would be involved in
19 advising elders in a congregation to report an allegation
20 to the authorities?
21 A. The legal department advises in relation to mandatory
22 reporting, because they would be fully aware of which
23 States and what the requirements are. It wouldn't be
24 correct to say that the service department doesn't advise
25 elders on that at a spiritual level, because invariably the
26 opening discussion with elders, once they come through to
27 the service department, is, if we're dealing with a current
28 allegation or abuse that is alleged to be currently taking
29 place, the first part of the conversation is in relation to
30 where is the victim, what has been done to protect the
31 victim. So certainly at a theocratic level and out of
32 concern for the family, that is certainly part of our
33 discussion, but not the mandatory reporting requirements.
34
35 Q. I just want to understand that, then. You say the
36 first issue to be addressed is where is the victim in
37 relation to a current allegation. How does that then
38 relate or transform itself into a reporting issue? How do
39 you deal with that with regard to reporting to authorities?
40 A. Right. It relates simply to what needs to be done to
41 ensure that a child, a minor, is not left in a position
42 where they could be exposed to further abuse - not from
43 a legal perspective or requirement, but from the fact that
44 the guardian/parent, the elders and each of us are
45 primarily concerned about what is being done to protect the
46 child. This abuse that has been reported - is the child
47 currently in a situation where that could continue?

1
2 Q. And advice that is given by the service desk to the
3 elders when they make a call, on this first-call basis, is
4 that advice then put in writing to them or confirmed in
5 writing?
6 A. I would say no, because we go through the same process
7 each time, simply referring the elders to the printed
8 advice that has been given in that regard, and so we just
9 simply go through that same process. Generally,
10 correspondence starts when we give that generic advice to
11 the elders, remembering that often when the elders call in
12 they have very little, if any, information; they may be
13 passing on a second- or third-hand - or some rumour, some
14 allegation. So in that first instance, we don't always
15 even have names or details. So we provide the same advice
16 each time from the published material, then ask the elders
17 to provide us with, in writing, the details that we can
18 assist them with.
19
20 Q. Let me just understand that. This generic advice you
21 supply on each occasion, what is it? What is the substance
22 of that advice?
23 A. If I can, I would read from the Elders' Handbook the
24 bit that - by rote - I read each time.
25
26 Q. By all means, please refer us to it. So that would be
27 at tab 120 - I take it that's Shepherd the Flock of God
28 that you are referring to?
29 A. Yes. Because I've been permitted to use the hard
30 copy - excuse me on the Ringtail reference, but it is
31 page 131.
32
33 Q. Yes.
34 A. So we refer the elders - they've already obviously
35 called in, and then obviously the sentence at the end of
36 paragraph 18 says:
37
38 The branch office will then give direction
39 based on the circumstances involved in each
40 situation.
41
42 So we ask the elders at that point just to give us what
43 basic information or detailed information that they have.
44 Then, reading the following portion, have the elders have
45 their handbook and follow along, where it says "Child abuse
46 is a crime":
47

1 Never suggest to anyone that they should
2 not report an allegation of child abuse to
3 the police or other authorities.
4
5 And myself and the other service desk elders, we always go
6 and get a second elder, so that we can both assist, so
7 these calls are taken with two elders from the
8 congregation, two elders in the service department. We
9 then say, I think as I've mentioned in my statement, and
10 I say with absolute conviction, that I'm a father, I'm
11 a grandfather of two little children, and you brothers, if
12 there is any concern that a child, a minor, remains in a
13 situation where they are in threat of harm - to go back to
14 the guardian/parent and assist them to do all they can,
15 including going to the authorities, if that's what the
16 parent - the guardian/parent is willing to do, including
17 going to the authorities, and remind them that they - the
18 individual, that they will have the full support of the
19 elders in doing that.
20
21 Then we read on:
22
23 If you are asked, make it clear that
24 whether to report the matter to the
25 authorities or not is a personal decision
26 for each individual to make and that there
27 are no congregation sanctions for either
28 decision. Elders will not criticise anyone
29 who reports such an allegation to the
30 authorities. If the victim wishes to make
31 a report, it is his or her absolute right
32 to do so.
33
34 So in reality, in the vast majority of phone calls that we
35 get, they would relate to historical events or events where
36 the guardian/parent has already extracted the child from
37 the situation. But we repeat the advice in every case: do
38 whatever it takes to make sure that the child is not in a
39 situation where they can come to harm. And I quite
40 passionately express that to the elders, because I know
41 what I would do if that was my grandchild, and I know from
42 the elders that we've heard from over the last few days,
43 that that's what they would do.
44
45 Q. Mr Spinks, that's the generic advice that you give,
46 and then it is over to the elders as to what they do. Is
47 that how we are to understand it?

1 A. That's correct, although they would ring us back if
2 they needed further discussion.
3
4 Q. So you don't give specific advice in a particular
5 situation and say "You should do this or that"; you put it
6 at the level of generic advice, as you have explained to
7 us?
8 A. Yes, I think we've consistently said, and we
9 appreciate that that is a matter under discussion, but
10 we're not claiming to have said that we have instructed
11 elders to go to the authorities, and I'm certainly not
12 stating that that's the case now.
13
14 THE CHAIR: Q. The material we have, as you know,
15 indicates more than 1,000 allegations, not one of which has
16 been reported to the authorities. I assume you know that
17 in different States there will be varying responsibilities
18 to report under the civil law when you know or believe that
19 someone has committed a serious offence. Can you help us
20 to understand why it should be that none have ever been
21 reported to the authorities?
22 A. Again, your Honour, we are not going to at any point
23 suggest that we have telephoned the authorities or have
24 instructed elders to do that, but as the Commission would
25 be aware, almost 400 of those 1,000 cases, over 65 years,
26 have had the intervention of the authorities, and we are
27 not taking the high ground there and saying that we have
28 telephoned the authorities, but realistically, almost 400
29 of those have been dealt with by the authorities, of which
30 less than half have resulted in convictions. If I can,
31 with respect, I don't want to in any way diminish the
32 number, because I hate it as much as you do in saying it.
33 Those 1,000 cases over 65 years - and I took great respect
34 at your observation the other day that this is not
35 a competition, so I'm loath to say anything that would -
36 none of us want to go there. This is about making sure
37 that organisations, Jehovah's Witnesses especially, do all
38 we can, and more than we've done, to make sure that we are
39 addressing this, and we welcome the opportunity. Those
40 1,000 cases, as the Commission is aware, 199 of those
41 relate to individuals - and I don't want to diminish the
42 number, I'm just presenting the facts - 199 of those relate
43 to individuals that were either not Jehovah's Witnesses or
44 likely may not have been Jehovah's Witnesses at the time.
45 More than half of the allegations - well over half of the
46 allegations - are familial, and in the context with no
47 comparison, where we're looking at ministers, clergy, those

1 allegations include everyone who has ever walked into
2 a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses; every individual who
3 has ever studied the Bible with us in prison; every person
4 out of the community that associates with us where we've
5 become aware that there is a child abuse allegation, we
6 have followed it up, recorded it and that's the reason
7 there are those numbers. In the last - and I take no pride
8 in this number; it disappoints me and it is why we want to
9 cooperate fully - in the last 10 years, according to the
10 statistics - that we've not done with the accuracy that the
11 Commission has done, and so that is a lesson for us, too -
12 in the figures that the Commission has provided, in the
13 last 10 years, two elders have committed child abuse
14 offences - in 10 years, two elders. And both were dealt
15 with by the police. In the last 10 years, four ministerial
16 servants have been involved in child abuse offences, and
17 three of them have been dealt with by the police. And that
18 includes child pornography - not just sexual assault, but
19 child pornography.
20
21 Now, I only say those to put some context to it. We
22 agree totally, we're not trying to disguise the figure. We
23 have willingly handed over - perhaps one of the only
24 organisations that has kept extensive records on visitors
25 and parishioners, and we just look at it in that context,
26 your Honour.
27
28 Q. Well, I don't want to get into a complex discussion
29 with you about this, but you do understand that the way
30 your church is structured means that you have an internal
31 process which looks at allegations of abuse and, for that
32 reason, the collection of your files will capture abusers,
33 whoever they might be - you understand that?
34 A. Yes, I do.
35
36 Q. And the fact that you have an internal process of
37 adjudication means that within your church you are
38 establishing a true belief in the guilt of someone of
39 a criminal offence; do you understand that?
40 A. Yes, I do.
41
42 Q. And you understand that carries with it obligations.
43 Irrespective of whether a matter otherwise goes to the
44 police or other authorities, it carries with it an
45 obligation upon those who make the decision that an offence
46 has been committed to tell the authorities that they have
47 come to that belief. Do you understand that?

1 A. I've been made aware of that since the Commission
2 started, your Honour.
3
4 Q. Because at the end of the day, whatever might be the
5 church processes and consequences, the State has an
6 interest in ensuring that the criminal law is enforced.
7 A. Absolutely.
8
9 Q. And that hasn't been the case in the past, I assume?
10 A. I think we've acknowledged the fact that, as an
11 organisation, while we've cooperated with the authorities
12 and certainly in mandatory reporting, but I think we've
13 acknowledged the fact that we have not had a practice,
14 against the wishes of the victim or otherwise to directly
15 report to the police. I acknowledge that.
16
17 Q. Even when you know that an offence has been committed?
18 A. We've acknowledged the fact that we've not taken away
19 from the family, and while we are happy to accept whatever
20 recommendations come - and I think your Honour would be
21 aware that we have no issue with mandatory reporting. That
22 doesn't excuse anything, it's not suggesting that we're
23 transferring the responsibility. But our challenge as it
24 has been for religious organisations, and I read it - as
25 I have waited over the last number of days, I read it in
26 the publication that is given to victims here at the
27 Commission from NSW Health, that says, "The victim should
28 be given the right to determine whether it is to go to the
29 authorities or not", and that booklet that is handed to the
30 victims says, "And their wish in that matter should be
31 respected." Now, that's religiously the approach that we
32 have taken for the reasons that have only been sort of
33 briefly described, but what we recognise is once there is
34 mandatory reporting, regardless of our strongly held
35 religious belief that individuals should have the right to
36 determine what is done with that information, that's how we
37 feel, it's based on scripture, but we accept, when the
38 State says, "You are required to mandatorily report that
39 offence", that Jehovah's Witnesses will do it, and if and
40 when there are mandatory reporting requirements with some
41 sort of uniformity across this country, we will willingly
42 and happily comply. In the meantime, we've got that
43 ethical challenge of respecting the individual's right, as
44 the New South Wales brochure says, and as the scriptures
45 say.
46
47 Q. There is a subtlety in the proposition I put to you

1 that may have escaped you. You see, what is happening
2 within your church is you are actually determining whether
3 or not you believe an allegation to be true. Do you
4 understand?
5 A. Yes.
6
7 Q. And if you determine that it is true, the state of
8 knowledge of your elder ceases to be knowledge of an
9 allegation but becomes knowledge or belief that something
10 has actually happened by way of a criminal offence. Do you
11 understand?
12 A. Yes, I do.
13
14 Q. I know that you may have some idea of mandatory
15 reporting, but what I was seeking to direct your attention
16 to was that, in those circumstances, there will be some
17 State laws - they won't be uniform across the country; they
18 will differ from State to State - which will impose
19 a criminal sanction on a person who knows and does not
20 report; do you understand?
21 A. It's been very well explained to me in recent weeks,
22 your Honour. So, yes, I do.
23
24 Q. But you won't get, at the moment, anyway, a national
25 response to this; it will vary from State to State. Do you
26 understand?
27 A. Yes, I think I've come to that conclusion, too.
28
29 Q. What that means is that people like you and others in
30 the church need to have a very good look, maybe with the
31 help of your lawyers, at what the law actually provides.
32 A. Yes.
33
34 Q. What you are doing is, in many respects, different to
35 what other churches might be doing, because you are
36 actually taking allegations and resolving, as you see it,
37 the truth of the allegation by reason of your process.
38 A. Yes, I understand.
39
40 Q. You understand?
41 A. Yes, I do.
42
43 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Spinks, you will understand that your
44 service desk, located in New South Wales, if it receives
45 information from elders in a congregation also in New South
46 Wales, then there may be, under compulsion of the criminal
47 law, section 316, an obligation on the service desk to

1 report to authorities, never mind the elders. Do you
2 understand that?
3 A. As I mentioned to his Honour, that has been recently
4 brought to my attention, yes.
5
6 Q. So prior to that having been brought to your
7 attention, I take it there may be cases where the elders at
8 the service desk have received information from elders at
9 a congregation which, under threat of criminal sanction,
10 should have been reported, but wasn't?
11 A. Well, I'm not qualified to answer, but if I understand
12 your question, if you are suggesting that when a victim
13 reports perhaps to a guardian or an associate and that is
14 reported to an elder who reports to another elder, who
15 contacts the legal department, is transferred through to
16 the service department, and that each step of the way there
17 are legal sanctions that could result in criminal
18 prosecution - if that's what you are saying, yes, I do
19 understand what you are saying.
20
21 THE CHAIR: Q. It doesn't quite work like that. You
22 will need to have - and everyone needs to have - a good
23 look at it. The section in New South Wales speaks in terms
24 of knowledge or belief.
25 A. Mmm-hmm.
26
27 Q. Now, that is a state of mind.
28 A. Mmm-hmm.
29
30 Q. Not created by hearing of an allegation - do you
31 understand?
32
33 THE CHAIR: But I think maybe, Mr Stewart, we need to put
34 this into the ultimate report. I'm not sure we're going to
35 get very far.
36
37 MR STEWART: Yes, your Honour.
38
39 Q. I just have one further question in relation to
40 clarify what it is that I am meaning, Mr Spinks.
41 A scenario, for example, of someone against whom
42 allegations are made then confesses to the elders in his
43 congregation, who then report that confession to you, or
44 one of your colleagues at the service desk, and on the
45 basis of that, you would have the belief that the
46 allegation was true - not so?
47

1 THE CHAIR: You would have the knowledge.
2
3 MR STEWART: Q. You would have the knowledge that the
4 man had confessed?
5 A. Can I ask you to repeat? I apologise. Could you just
6 repeat that again?
7
8 THE CHAIR: Q. What is being put to you is that there
9 may be an allegation.
10 A. Yes.
11
12 Q. But when the allegation is confirmed by the alleged
13 abuser confessing --
14 A. Yes.
15
16 Q. -- admitting that he did the act --
17 A. Yes.
18
19 Q. -- then it ceases to be an allegation, but it becomes
20 an offence of which the person receiving an understanding
21 of the confession has knowledge.
22 A. I understand that.
23
24 Q. And the Act will then operate.
25 A. Yes. And, your Honour, with respect, does that apply
26 just to ministers, or would that apply to every person --
27
28 Q. It applies to anyone.
29 A. To every person in the State of New South Wales.
30
31 Q. Yes, who has the relevant knowledge.
32 A. Thank you. Thank you.
33
34 MR STEWART: Q. Just getting back to the generic advice
35 you offer, you will appreciate that - and particularly in
36 relation to the right, as you put it, of the victim to
37 report to the police - there may be a distinction, on the
38 one hand, between a situation where a child has been
39 a victim and is still a child, in other words, a recent
40 allegation, and they are still a child; and, on the other
41 hand, an adult reporting with regard to some allegation
42 some time back when he or she was a child; do you see that
43 distinction?
44 A. I do.
45
46 Q. Dealing, then, with the first scenario, as
47 I understand it, you would see that as being up to the

1 parent of the child to exercise that right, or not, to
2 report to the authorities; would that be right?
3 A. Scripturally, that would be our position.
4
5 Q. In circumstances where, let's say, for example, the
6 allegation of abuse is against the father, and the mother
7 doesn't want to report, for whatever reasons, but one can
8 imagine easily there may be reasons that she doesn't want
9 her husband to go to gaol, and so on, but the child remains
10 vulnerable as a consequence, as I understand it, you, at
11 the service desk, would not advise the elders to report to
12 the authorities?
13 A. Again, we have been transparent in what we are saying:
14 we have not instructed elders to say, at arm's length in
15 the office, "You must go and tell the authorities." The
16 language that we have used, as I've explained - and we ask
17 them repeatedly to do it, if that's the situation, "Could
18 you go back to the guardian/parent and reinforce with them
19 that if the child remains in a dangerous position that we
20 need to do all we can to make sure that the child is
21 protected." Now, I could make a statement now to the
22 effect that, well, we know that that has always happened
23 and that no child has been harmed further - I would love to
24 say that. But I can say that, to my knowledge - and
25 certainly in the time that I've been there - we have not
26 allowed a situation to go unaddressed if the elders had
27 that as a concern, and it has been my knowledge only - and
28 again, I'm not suggesting evidence to this effect or
29 listing off names - I'm saying to my knowledge the care of
30 the guardian/parent would have already extricated the child
31 from that situation, and repeatedly in situations over the
32 years, that's with the assistance of the elders, the
33 assistance of the congregation elders. But the short
34 answer to your question: have we instructed elders to go
35 to the authorities? We've transparently said we have not
36 done that.
37
38 Q. And, Mr Spinks, have you followed the evidence of this
39 case study over the last week and a bit?
40 A. I have.
41
42 Q. So you would have heard one elder after another -
43 that's a congregational-level elder - saying that they
44 depend on advice and direction from the service desk?
45 A. Yes.
46
47 Q. You accept that that is, in reality, what happens -

1 they do depend on advice and direction from the service
2 desk?
3 A. I do.
4
5 Q. Is there not a gap then created between the generic
6 advice you give and their expectation of being advised and
7 directed where it leaves, from your side, them with
8 discretion as to how to handle it, but from their side
9 leaves them with an expectation of direction with regard to
10 how to handle it?
11 A. If I understand the point there correctly, I do agree
12 that we have said clearly that we haven't given that
13 instruction to the elders, so for me to say that there is
14 an expectation that the elders would have received that as
15 an instruction and acted on it would be inconsistent. So
16 the point you make is correct.
17
18 Q. Just taking this point a little bit further, if we
19 take a look at your paragraph 30, you are dealing here -
20 perhaps we can scroll down a bit so we can see the heading
21 of this section, "Branch Office response: Victim Safety
22 and Support" You say there that you ask the current
23 circumstances, as you explained previously - that's in
24 paragraph 28. Then if we go down to paragraph 30, you say:
25
26 I explain that, as a father and
27 a grandfather, if this was my child or
28 grandchild, I would do everything necessary
29 to ensure that the child is safe. For the
30 elders, that may involve supporting the
31 parent/guardian in contacting the
32 authorities or personally contacting the
33 authorities.
34
35 Then you cite an August 28, 2002 letter, and you extract
36 a quote from that letter. Do you see that?
37 A. Yes.
38
39 Q. That letter is at tab 105, if we could take a look at
40 that. Do you see that is a letter from the branch "To All
41 Congregations in Australia". Do we understand that to be
42 to the elders of all congregations, or would it go to all
43 the publishers?
44 A. When it is not addressed to the Body of Elders, when
45 it is addressed to All Congregations, it goes to all
46 publishers as a letter read out at the congregation and
47 posted on the noticeboard.

1
2 Q. On the second page, page 2, is the quote that you have
3 extracted, which says:
4
5 We have long instructed elders to report
6 allegations of child abuse to the
7 authorities where required by law to do so,
8 even where there is only one witness.
9 ... In any case, the elders know that if
10 the victim wishes to make a report, it is
11 his or her absolute right to do so ...
12
13 Of course, what that doesn't say is that the elders should
14 themselves contact the authorities in any particular
15 circumstances?
16 A. Correct.
17
18 Q. Do you accept that, indeed, it implies the contrary -
19 in other words, it implies that it is really up to the
20 victim or, in certain circumstances, the victim's parents,
21 but really, it's not saying anything to the elders about
22 the elders reporting?
23 A. Yes. You are right. I don't know that I'm saying
24 that. I believe that the sentence in paragraph 30 is not
25 a letter to the congregation but me explaining to the
26 Commission what I do. As I've written there, I explain
27 that as a father and grandfather, not the Watchtower Bible
28 & Tract Society writing - as a father and grandfather
29 I know what I would do, and I'm explaining that for the
30 elders that may involve supporting the parent/guardian, or
31 personally contacting the authorities, because in the same
32 way that, as an organisation, as a faith, we are respecting
33 the rights of the individual, we also respect the
34 individual consciences of the elders who, as we've seen,
35 they are all family men, children, grandchildren,
36 whatever - we respect their conscience. We don't dictate,
37 in that sense, what the elders can --
38
39 Q. But if the elders are to have reference to the
40 material, as opposed to what you have said to them on the
41 phone, you would accept that, certainly in relation to this
42 letter, there is nothing that would encourage them under
43 any particular circumstances to report, themselves, to the
44 authorities?
45 A. I think we've said very clearly, in several questions
46 you have asked now, we've not claimed to have instructed
47 the elders to go to the authorities, and we acknowledge

1 that. It's somewhat different to, as we've said, when the
2 elders call in, encouraging them to do all that they can
3 with the parent/guardian, their own conscience, et cetera,
4 to do what needs to be done to protect the child. I can
5 see the clear difference that you are making and I accept
6 it fully.
7
8 Q. Just understanding where this letter fits in, is it
9 current? It is a 2002 letter. What significance are we to
10 give it? The reason why I ask that is: is it not the case
11 that the current position is governed by Organised to Do
12 Jehovah's Will of 2005 - that's the baptismal handbook for
13 all publishers; am I right?
14 A. Correct.
15
16 Q. And then, also, Shepherd the Flock of God, 2010, which
17 is the handbook for elders; is that right?
18 A. Correct.
19
20 Q. And then the letter of 1 October 2012. Do those
21 documents not supplant this 2002 letter, or is there an
22 expectation that this 2002 letter still has some currency?
23 A. That's pretty subjective to say. I mean, the letter
24 wouldn't be on notice boards now, but I don't see anything
25 in that sentence there that is any different to what we
26 would do now. But I'm not sure of the point you are
27 making.
28
29 Q. I am just seeking to understand why you draw on a 2002
30 letter in support of the point or part of the point you are
31 making in paragraph 30, when, as I would understand it -
32 but I'm giving you the opportunity to show me where I've
33 gone wrong - that letter is in the relatively distant past
34 and has no currency?
35 A. I think that was an expectation on our part that you
36 wanted us to establish that what we are now clearly saying
37 in the publications is what we said in 2002, and we have
38 long instructed elders - so elders have been contacting the
39 legal department for beyond the last couple of decades. So
40 I think we've simply tried to say, as we have with the
41 other documents we've provided, that we've tried to
42 establish a pattern of these principles over a period of
43 time. But what you say is true: we could have easily put
44 a more recent reference there.
45
46 Q. If we can go back to your statement, this time at
47 paragraph 32, you will see that you say there:

1
2 Spiritual comfort provided by elders to
3 a victim is not viewed as a substitute for
4 professional therapy.
5
6 You will have heard me ask some questions of Dr Applewhite
7 about this. It is still the case, though, that there are
8 restrictions imposed by the Jehovah's Witness Church on its
9 members with regard to the types of therapy that they can,
10 at least with the blessing of the church, engage in?
11 A. I disagree with that completely. If I can show my
12 reason for saying it, and that's in chapter 4 of the
13 Elders' Handbook.
14
15 Q. That's tab 120.
16 A. Yes. Page 55.
17
18 Q. That's at Ringtail 56.
19 A. So when this point was previously brought up, with
20 respect, I thought to myself when I read that paragraph,
21 I would like to write it for a publication that was to be
22 presented for the general public, so I acknowledge the fact
23 that this is written in the language of and written for
24 elders, but it says there are times, paragraph 25 - the
25 section is on helping child abuse victims, by the way:
26
27 There are times when an emotionally
28 distressed Christian may seek professional
29 help. Whether a Christian or his family
30 pursues treatment from psychiatrists,
31 psychologists or therapists is a personal
32 decision. An elder should not assume the
33 responsibility of recommending a specific
34 practitioner or facility. He may draw
35 attention to or discuss material in the
36 publications that provides cautions
37 regarding therapies that may conflict with
38 Bible principles.
39
40 So he draws attention to some references. It continues:
41
42 While participating in group therapy by
43 a professional therapist is a matter for
44 personal decision ...
45
46 And then there is a caution, again:
47

1 There could be a revealing of confidential
2 facts about other members of the Christian
3 congregation during such sessions if
4 a Christian does not exercise discretion.
5
6 So there are some comments to the elders to say, "Those are
7 personal decisions." As you are probably aware, there are
8 a good number of psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists,
9 welfare workers, that are Jehovah's Witnesses and have good
10 knowledge. There are, on occasion, a professional that has
11 no respect for an individual's faith in or belief in Bible
12 principles, and we absolutely respect their right to make
13 that decision. Whether that's, in that individual case,
14 the best person to help a devout Christian who wants
15 psychiatric help, wants therapy, but doesn't want their
16 faith mocked or undermined - that's the balancing comment
17 in there. But we have no objection to professional
18 treatment and I would say that a good number of those that
19 have been affected by past child abuse have sought and
20 received help - the ones that I'm aware of.
21
22 Q. Mr Spinks, let's break this down a little bit. In the
23 latter aspect, the bit about:
24
25 While participating in group therapy by
26 a professional therapist is a matter for
27 personal decision, there could be
28 a revealing of confidential facts about
29 other members of the Christian congregation
30 during such sessions ...
31
32 Is this not to be understood as a caution to members that
33 if they are to participate in group therapy, they must not
34 reveal confidential facts?
35 A. I'm not sure where you are reading that. To me, the
36 word "discretion", or "a matter for personal decision" -
37 I see the point that you are trying to make and where you
38 are trying to lead, but what I read is "a matter for
39 personal decision" and "a matter for discretion". It says
40 "there could be a revealing of confidential facts" -
41 I don't see the "don't", or "can't", or whatever. I see
42 "discretion", and I see "a matter for personal decision".
43 But I agree, the sentence could be better written to be
44 read in this context.
45
46 Q. Let's look at it. The first half of the sentence
47 says, in essence, whether or not to participate in group

1 therapy by a professional therapist is a matter for
2 personal decision by the publisher in question - that's
3 what the first part says, not so?
4 A. Correct.
5
6 Q. So that's what the personal decision is about - it's
7 whether or not to participate; do you agree?
8 A. Yes.
9
10 Q. And then it says - the reference to "discretion" at
11 the end of the sentence is not a discretion in the sense of
12 it is a matter for their discretion as to what they reveal
13 or not. It says that if they do not exercise discretion,
14 they will reveal these things which they must not reveal -
15 discretion in the sense of caution, not authority.
16 A. I understand exactly the point you are making.
17 I don't question it. I don't read it that way, but I'm
18 happy for you to read it that way.
19
20 Q. Is it not the case that the expectation is that elders
21 would read it in the way in which I have put it, rather
22 than in the way in which you have put it?
23 A. That has not been my experience at all.
24
25 Q. Okay. Let's look at the other part of it. It says:
26
27 He may draw attention to or discuss
28 material in the publications that provides
29 cautions regarding therapies that may
30 conflict with Bible principles.
31
32 So I take it there are therapies that conflict with Bible
33 principles?
34 A. Yes.
35
36 Q. What are those?
37 A. I would have to take the references out, again, to be
38 accurate, but there are certainly some therapies, by their
39 nature or religious practice, that may involve what the
40 Bible would refer to as spiritistic-type practices.
41 Mainstream therapy, normal psychiatric, psychological
42 therapy, that's not what is being referred to. It is
43 making a reference to publications that have highlighted
44 perhaps some of the more extreme and radical therapies that
45 have been done, and says "he could draw their attention to
46 it".
47

1 MR STEWART: Would this be a convenient time, your Honour?
2
3 THE CHAIR: We will have the morning adjournment.
4
5 SHORT ADJOURNMENT
6
7 MR STEWART: Your Honour, just prior to resuming the
8 examination of Mr Spinks, I might take the opportunity to
9 say something about Mr Geoffrey Jackson. He is a member of
10 the Governing Body and he is currently in Australia --
11
12 THE CHAIR: That is the Governing Body in New York?
13
14 MR STEWART: That's right. Some weeks ago it came to the
15 attention of the Royal Commission that Mr Jackson, a member
16 of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses in New York,
17 was in Australia. We wrote to the lawyers acting for
18 Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia and asked if their client
19 would procure a statement from Mr Jackson and make him
20 available as a witness. The reply that was received was
21 that Mr Jackson was in Australia for private, compassionate
22 reasons and, also, that since the Governing Body was not
23 involved in the implementation and administration of
24 policies and procedures in relation to child sexual abuse,
25 he would not be able to give relevant evidence.
26
27 The Royal Commission then left the matter at that
28 point, but subsequently came to the view that Mr Jackson's
29 evidence would likely be useful for this hearing,
30 particularly in relation to the formulation of policies and
31 procedures by the Governing Body and the possibility for
32 change of policies and procedures in the future. We
33 therefore wrote last week asking whether the lawyers for
34 the Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia would accept service
35 of a summons on Mr Jackson. The reply that was received
36 reiterated that for reasons of compassion related to why
37 Mr Jackson was in the country, it would, as it was put, be
38 unconscionable for him to be required to prepare to give
39 evidence and to give evidence.
40
41 Taking that into account, Mr Jackson has not been
42 summonsed to give evidence. We would, however, welcome
43 evidence from him, or another member of the Governing Body,
44 particularly with regard to the setting of policies and
45 procedures and the possibilities for change of those
46 policies and procedures, and the door is open for the
47 Jehovah's Witnesses in Australia or the Watchtower Bible &

1 Tract Society of Australia to present such evidence for
2 this hearing, including by video conference.
3
4 THE CHAIR: Gentlemen, I don't know which of you two
5 should respond to that. Could I make it plain, if it is
6 not plain already, that the Commissioner and I have concern
7 about the process of investigation and determination of
8 allegations within the Jehovah's Witnesses and whether it
9 is a safe and effective process for the determination of an
10 allegation by a person that they have been sexually abused
11 by someone within the church.
12
13 Now, I understand the theocratic foundation for the
14 present position - at least, I think I do. But at the
15 moment, we do not have a witness, as I understand it, who
16 can tell us what the way forward might be to enable the
17 church to bring its processes to the point where, rather
18 than run the risk of increasing the trauma on those who
19 have been abused, the processes can assist in alleviating
20 the trauma. It is of fundamental importance to people who
21 have been abused that when they go to the relevant
22 authorities - and in this case, it is the church, because
23 the church demands a complaint be brought to the church -
24 their story is accepted and they have the opportunity to
25 tell the whole of their story to a forum which they can
26 have trust in, and which will enable them, then, to pass,
27 as it were, some of the burden to that institution, which
28 requires, in this case, that it report, or that person
29 report.
30
31 Now, these are very significant issues. They are not
32 small issues, they are significant issues. At the moment,
33 we are, as I say, facing the situation where we can see
34 a problem, but we do need assistance from the church in
35 what is the solution. We rather thought that Mr Jackson
36 might be able to assist us in that respect.
37
38 I understand the reason for compassion being extended
39 to him. I have no difficulty with that. And for that
40 reason, I have not issued a summons requiring him to
41 attend. But at the moment we face a serious issue with
42 which only the church can help us.
43
44 Whether that needs a response now, I don't know, but
45 we would like you to reflect upon that situation.
46
47 MR TOKLEY: Your Honour, may I respond on behalf of the

1 persons I represent. Your Honour's points are being taken
2 on board, are being addressed, and are being given the most
3 earnest consideration by the authorities. Mr Jackson would
4 probably not have been of any assistance in any event,
5 because his role and his responsibility is in relation to
6 the translation of matters; it's not in relation to these
7 sorts of matters.
8
9 However, Mr O'Brien, who will give evidence before
10 your Honour, is able to assist your Honour in regard to
11 some of the matters your Honour has raised. I can assure
12 your Honour that to the extent to which Mr O'Brien is
13 unable to assist your Honour, we will do everything that we
14 can to ensure that the Commission is given the assistance
15 that is required from us and to help the Commission.
16
17 THE CHAIR: The assumption I make at the moment is that if
18 there is to be change, it's change that has to be
19 ultimately sanctioned, if not directed, by New York. Am
20 I right?
21
22 MR TOKLEY: Your Honour, ultimately it is a matter for
23 submission. We understand your Honour's point and we
24 understand your Honour's particular concern about the
25 environment in which these matters are reported. So that
26 has not been lost upon us at all. The question, I think,
27 at the end of the day, is the adaptability of the present
28 structure to the individual circumstances of any particular
29 person and whether that present structure is inappropriate,
30 so it must be done away with, or whether the appropriate
31 structure can be modelled for the purposes of an individual
32 person's case. I think that's probably one of the more
33 difficult questions that the Commission will have to deal
34 with at the end of the day.
35
36 THE CHAIR: It is. But if there is to be change, again,
37 I had assumed that change has to be either directed or
38 sanctioned in New York.
39
40 MR TOKLEY: Your Honour, it may be the case - it depends
41 upon what change is contemplated. My instructions are, my
42 understanding is, that the local branch has significant
43 flexibility in adapting the judicial committee procedure to
44 the individual case. As your Honour I think has heard, and
45 will hear, the Elders' Handbook is for elders worldwide,
46 but the autonomy of the branches enables the branches to
47 tailor these matters for individual cases. That's part of

1 what Mr Spinks's evidence is about today, so that it may
2 be --
3
4 THE CHAIR: I'm still at a loss, because, as I understand
5 it, the ultimate framework comes from New York.
6
7 MR TOKLEY: No, your Honour, the ultimate framework comes
8 from the scriptures, in the sense --
9
10 THE CHAIR: All right. But as interpreted by New York.
11
12 MR TOKLEY: Perhaps as interpreted, but also, we would
13 say, as set down in the scriptures, so that the structure
14 may not be changeable, but --
15
16 THE CHAIR: You see, that's a serious issue. If the way
17 the scriptures are being interpreted and applied is
18 creating additional trauma for people who are sexually
19 abused by members of the church, that is a serious problem.
20
21 MR TOKLEY: Understood, your Honour. I think again,
22 ultimately, it is a matter for submissions. I think our
23 submission at the end of the day will be that the structure
24 itself doesn't create or exacerbate the trauma that has
25 been suffered. What is required is for the structure to be
26 adapted to the individual person so as to ensure --
27
28 THE CHAIR: That may be your submission, but I should put
29 you on notice that that is not a submission which, at the
30 moment, I think is going to deal with the problem we have.
31
32 MR TOKLEY: I understand, your Honour. Perhaps at the end
33 of all of the witnesses that are to come, if I could put it
34 this way, your Honour's concerns will be hopefully
35 addressed, but certainly, to the extent to which they are
36 not, I can assure your Honour that the Jehovah's Witnesses
37 will cooperate in addressing such matters.
38
39 THE CHAIR: Let me, I suppose, illustrate it in a direct
40 way. We have now conducted more than 3,800 private
41 sessions as part of the Royal Commission's work, which are
42 people who have been abused coming and telling us their
43 story, with the expectation that their story will be
44 accepted. We have a variety of requests from people as to
45 the person, Commissioner person, who actually receives
46 their story, and there are some who will say, "I only want
47 to talk to a woman."

1
2 MR TOKLEY: Yes, your Honour.
3
4 THE CHAIR: There are others who say "I only want to talk
5 to a man."
6
8
9 THE CHAIR: If you are in the process of receiving these
10 sorts of allegations, one needs to be able to say that we
11 can meet a request like that in order not to impose trauma
12 on the person when they come to tell their story.
13
14 MR TOKLEY: Understood, your Honour. The very point
15 your Honour makes is, to a certain extent, covered in the
16 Elders' Handbook - to a certain extent. I don't say
17 completely, but to a certain extent, in paragraph 24 of the
18 Elders' Handbook, where a sister within the faith may go to
19 another sister within the faith to disclose matters.
20
21 THE CHAIR: Yes, but that's not what I'm talking about.
22 I'm talking about the process - and I think you know I'm
23 talking about the whole process.
24
25 There is a second step in this, and that is the need
26 to have the survivor confront the abuser.
27
29
30 THE CHAIR: All of our learning in the civil courts tells
31 us that that process is likely to create, for some people,
32 extraordinary trauma.
33
35
36 THE CHAIR: We need to look at that process as well.
37
38 MR TOKLEY: Yes, your Honour. I do not for one second
39 cavil with your Honour. Accepting what your Honour has
40 said, it is our understanding that the more sensitive the
41 response at every step along the way, the less the chance
42 of inflicting or imposing further trauma or exacerbating
43 the situation for the survivor. So that our response is
44 that at every step along the way it needs to be sensitive
45 to the individual needs of that person, bearing in mind
46 both our understanding of secular rights - that is, the
47 right for the individual to report the matter - and, at the

1 same time, to respect the individual's desire for
2 scriptural counselling, or for the matter to be dealt with
3 within the faith. So those considerations need to be
4 balanced in dealing with the matter.
5
6 THE CHAIR: That doesn't answer the problem we have,
7 because the starting point for the discussion is an
8 adherent is required to report. So it is not a question of
9 seeking to have their allegation determined by the church;
10 the obligation, as we understand it, falls upon them to
11 bring that allegation to the church, and then the church
12 imposes its structure.
13
14 This is a discussion that we will need to have further
15 down the track.
16
18
19 THE CHAIR: But I just want to make it plain that these
20 are really significant issues. We had thought that perhaps
21 Mr Jackson might be able to help us with them, but if he
22 can't --
23
24 MR TOKLEY: He can't, your Honour, no.
25
26 THE CHAIR: -- then so be it. We had Dr Applewhite, last
27 Friday, and you realise where her evidence ended up --
28
29 MR TOKLEY: Yes, I do, your Honour.
30
31 THE CHAIR: -- in terms of the church's process. Although
32 she came to say that they were good, the ultimate position,
33 as we understand what she said, they are flawed. Those
34 flaws are the things that I'm talking to you about now.
35
36 MR TOKLEY: Yes, I understand, your Honour. We do
37 understand. Obviously, these matters have to be addressed
38 and have to be addressed to assist the Commission. I don't
39 wish to take up more of your Honour's time now and I am
40 conscious of the --
41
42 THE CHAIR: Anyway, if Mr Jackson can't help.
43
44 MR TOKLEY: He can't, your Honour.
45
46 THE CHAIR: Then, there we are.
47

1 MR TOKLEY: But Mr O'Brien will be of assistance, and
2 Mr Spinks will be of assistance, your Honour. Thank you.
3
4 THE CHAIR: Yes.
5
6 MR STEWART: As your Honour pleases.
7
8 Q. Mr Spinks, I want to address the mechanics a little
9 more of the responding to reports and allegations process,
10 and just understand it. Is it right that the procedure and
11 principles are to be found in the following four documents:
12 Organised to Do Jehovah's Will, 2005; Shepherd the Flock of
13 God, 2010; the 1 October 2012 letter; and then the 2013
14 Guidelines for Branch Office Service Desks?
15 A. Those are certainly the documents, but just the
16 component that is missing from that is that, as the October
17 1, 2012 letter says, the elders contact the branch office,
18 and I think if that is poorly described - which it would
19 seem that it is, by my statement; I apologise for that -
20 but if I could, again, just --
21
22 Q. Just before you carry on, for now I'm just trying to
23 seek to identify the documents that we have reference to.
24 Is that the corpus of documents, the ones that I've
25 identified? We'll look in a moment at what they say with
26 regard to other discretionary factors or so on, but are
27 those the documents where we are to find the applicable
28 principles and procedure?
29 A. In addition to the Bible principles and the fact
30 that - would I be permitted just to read the one sentence
31 that I was going to refer to, if I could, please?
32
33 Q. Yes, of course. So that is at tab 124.
34 A. Yes. Page 131 of the Elders' Handbook.
35
36 Q. I beg your pardon. I thought you were referring to
37 the October 2012 letter. Is it the handbook you are
38 referring to?
39 A. Yes.
40
41 Q. Tab 120. Yes, which page?
42 A. Page 131.
43
44 Q. Yes, Ringtail 132.
45 A. Paragraph 18, which, as we read, starts with
46 "immediately call the branch office", the last sentence of
47 paragraph 18 says:

1
2 The branch office will then give direction
3 based on the circumstances involved in each
4 situation.
5
6 So yes, those are four current documents, based on the
7 scriptures, but that is a pivotal sentence there, where the
8 branch office will give direction based on the
9 circumstances involved in each situation.
10
11 Q. I will come to that in a moment. As I explained, I'm
12 trying to identify the documents and then we can go on to
13 see how the documents are applied and what discretion there
14 may be for the branch office, and so on. But those are the
15 documents, are they - the ones I've identified? Organised,
16 Shepherd, the October 2012 letter, the 2013 guidelines -
17 those are the four documents and the scriptures you have
18 identified. Are there any other documents you identify
19 that one should have reference to to find the procedures
20 and principles that are to be applied in responding to
21 reports and allegations of child sexual abuse from the
22 Jehovah's Witness Church?
23 A. I apologise for just not saying directly "Yes" to your
24 question, "Are those the only four documents?", because we,
25 or I, have identified that those are the current documents
26 that have relation to child abuse, and I think we've made
27 the point that we have published extensively with regard to
28 child abuse - some of those articles are referenced in the
29 handbook and the letter. Those articles are extensively
30 used - right from the 1980s, 1990s, to current - those
31 articles are used and specific quotes from those are used
32 in addition to the various seminars and additional letters.
33 So do those four letters represent the complete direction
34 that is given to elders, the answer is no, but those are
35 relevant documents and listed as the current ones that
36 primarily deal with some of the key issues.
37
38 Q. Well, those articles and so on that you refer to are
39 dealing with how parents should deal with child sexual
40 abuse with their children, and so on. They are not sources
41 for procedure and principles as to how the organisation
42 responds to allegations of child sexual abuse, are they?
43 A. Yes, they are. For example - it is in the submission
44 documents, I believe, and please forgive me if I misquote -
45 the November 1, 1995 Watchtower introduced - and it may
46 have been before that, but that's the one in my role over
47 the last couple of decades that has stuck in my mind -

1 introduced using a letter for the victim or survivor to be
2 able to document the allegation. So would it be better if
3 all those - would it be better if all those quotes were
4 listed one after the other in this book, the hundreds of
5 thousands of these books to elders in every culture?
6 I think it probably would be. So that's just one example
7 of a reference. There are others.
8
9 Q. I understand that may have introduced something that
10 is new, but is it not the case that that then is picked up
11 in one of the four documents to which I referred?
12 A. If it is, that's just - my memory fails me, if that's
13 the case. But if the November 1, 1995 Watchtower is in
14 those letters, it's just gone from my memory, I'm sorry.
15 But I'm certain it's in the submission documents.
16
17 Q. Doesn't this present a bit of a difficulty to an elder
18 in a congregation somewhere who is faced with an allegation
19 of child sexual abuse, if it is so difficult to determine
20 where this material is, that is still current, on which he
21 can rely?
22 A. Well, it would be if he didn't ring the branch office.
23 But that's why his first instruction, on every occasion, is
24 to contact the branch office, and these are the
25 references - remembering, with respect, that most of these
26 elders we've spoken to, family men, have dealt with one of
27 their issues in their entire decades as elders. Some of
28 them may never be confronted with it in their lifetime. So
29 that instruction for elders to ring the branch office,
30 where we assist with the myriad of references - I think
31 Dr Applewhite acknowledged that we have flooded the website
32 and our publications with references. So what you say is
33 true. That's why they ring the branch office.
34
35 Q. What about a victim of child sexual abuse - do you
36 accept that to such a person there should be a clear policy
37 and procedure as to how the organisation will respond and
38 how that victim is to raise an allegation?
39 A. I think that's an extremely valid point and one that,
40 in our discussions over the last two weeks from hearing the
41 Commissioner's comments, that for us to take these
42 references from various places and have them consolidated
43 into a much clearer format - I absolutely agree.
44
45 Q. Because you will accept that the current position is
46 that a victim wanting to report an allegation would be left
47 very uncertain as to how it all works?

1 A. Would they be able to turn to a document that steps
2 out sequentially what is required? I would say not. Would
3 they, in referencing currently on the jw.org website, and
4 I know there are no absolutes, but I would be surprised if
5 a single Jehovah's Witness in this country does not
6 regularly access the jw.org website - type in "child
7 abuse", and all the references are there, many of which
8 encourage the benefits of confiding in somebody, talking to
9 the elders. But is there a document? There is not.
10
11 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Spinks, you have heard the discussion
12 I had with Mr Tokley about this?
13 A. I did, yes.
14
15 Q. I understand what you say, that there are lots of
16 references, but inherent in what Mr Tokley has said is that
17 an individual would not know what confronts them, because,
18 as he puts it, it is necessary to consult and mould process
19 to the individual case?
20 A. Yes.
21
22 Q. So that taking them to documents, but with the
23 expectation that each case will be treated differently,
24 doesn't really help very much, does it?
25 A. Your Honour, I respectfully agree that what the
26 Commission has clearly identified is that there is no
27 shortage of references and research material, but does that
28 need to be presented in a more user-friendly and
29 appropriate - I totally agree.
30
31 Q. Well, it is more than that. You understand the
32 concerns that the Commissioner and I have about your
33 current accepted processes - and I stress again,
34 I appreciate that they have been developed with an
35 understanding of the Bible. But do you see the conflict
36 that is emerging between what you are adhering to there and
37 what we have learnt in more recent years about the process
38 of verifying an allegation of sexual abuse?
39 A. I absolutely understand the point, your Honour.
40
41 Q. That's the one that needs to be addressed in a really
42 significant way. I mean, is it appropriate to continue to
43 require victims to confront their abuser in order for there
44 to be a determination within the church? Or are you, in
45 fact, running the risk of further traumatising people who
46 are already traumatised by their abuse?
47 A. I totally agree, your Honour. If I could, with

1 respect, the last thing I want in any way is to appear
2 defensive. That's not my intention. We have looked in
3 this Commission at two situations that, as they have for
4 others, have distressed me to hear it through step by step.
5 Are there things that would be done differently today? As
6 I watched that, I went back to the branch - because I know
7 what I've done, I know what I'm aware of: have we asked or
8 expected a victim to confront their abuser without them
9 wanting to do that? I can't find a record of us having
10 done that.
11
12 Q. That's not the point. That's not the point. Your
13 whole teaching, of course, requires adherence from your
14 members to your principles. Correct?
15 A. To Bible principles, yes.
16
17 Q. That's what is happening. I don't think you deal with
18 the problem by saying, "No-one resisted confronting their
19 abuser." You have heard evidence here about the trauma
20 that it inflicted upon someone who was required to. And if
21 the church has the expectation, and that's the only way the
22 allegation can be dealt with, then you have a problem. It
23 won't be answered by saying, "No-one in our files has said
24 they don't want to confront their abuser." That won't
25 happen.
26 A. I apologise for interrupting. I apologise if I've
27 misrepresented that, your Honour, but from the mid-1990s,
28 here in Australia, we have used the statement - I went back
29 myself through the case files over the last number of
30 years, and one after the other found where we have
31 directed, and the elders have simply asked the survivor,
32 the victim, to provide in writing their allegation, where
33 we have not directed the victim to confront their abuser.
34 I think some of the basis for that misunderstanding is
35 that, one, we've been looking at cases from over 20 years
36 ago - that's true; and, secondly, we've, since the
37 mid-1990s, perhaps not as professionally as others or
38 efficiently as others, but we've recognised that a victim
39 or a survivor should not have to confront their abuser, and
40 we do that --
41
42 Q. Well, that needs to be put in your documents.
43 A. Absolutely.
44
45 Q. It's not there at the moment.
46 A. Well, again, with respect, your Honour, that's exactly
47 the question I asked myself, and I said if I had to say to

1 you, where is that clearly stated? And I found the
2 document. But I have a concern about, at this stage of the
3 Commission, presenting an outline that was presented to all
4 the elders in Australia, that should have been in the
5 documents, that is not, that says don't get the victim to
6 confront the abuser. Now, I'm not suggesting that - if
7 there's a process, if that could be just introduced into
8 the documents for your consideration --
9
10 THE CHAIR: Yes, please. If there is any document that is
11 going to help us, we would like to see it.
12
13 MR STEWART: I call for it.
14
15 THE WITNESS: Your Honour, how that came to be found was
16 through my assistant - we had the note in our previous
17 Elders' Handbook from 1991, but none of us had it until we
18 found one of the older members of the department that had
19 actually photocopied and reduced it and stuck it in his
20 book. So I went and found it. It's called a 337A form -
21 a 337A form printed May 1998.
22
23 THE CHAIR: Q. We would like to see it. But I get the
24 impression it hasn't been widely known?
25 A. It's part of - we have - have we produced that to
26 elders? No. They were taught it in 1998, and if it was
27 written in the book here, that would be very helpful. But
28 I'm happy to produce it.
29
30 Q. Please do. That's not the only issue, you know, that
31 we have to confront.
32 A. I appreciate that.
33
34 MR STEWART: Q. Just in relation to what is printed, you
35 see, the difficulty, it seems to me, with what is published
36 over time and with you not committing to, or not being able
37 to commit to, just what the corpus of documents is that is
38 the source for these policies and procedures, is it's a bit
39 like trying to put your finger on a ball of mercury: just
40 when you think you have it, it pops up somewhere else. So
41 just when one thinks one understands what is being said on
42 a particular point, then an article from 1975 Awake! will
43 be produced to say, "Oh, but look, we also say this". How
44 is anyone to know just what the position is?
45 A. It is a very valid comment and I can only repeat
46 again: has the Commission highlighted to us? In my
47 discussions with our branch committee over the last two

1 weeks, we have looked and said, "Why don't we get these
2 points into a document?" We see the point. I accept it
3 and acknowledge it.
4
5 Q. That, of course, raises the next point. These
6 documents that I have referred to, at least - excluding the
7 scriptures that I assume can't be changed - but also the
8 Awake! and Watchtower articles - those are determined and
9 published from New York; is that right?
10 A. Correct.
11
12 Q. What scope do you, at the branch office, have to
13 publish your own material which might set it all out nice
14 and clearly?
15 A. As long as we don't stray from the scriptures, which
16 is the primary role of the Governing Body worldwide - if we
17 don't stray from the scriptures, the Australia branch has
18 full authority to produce documents, to clearly set out for
19 seminars, letters to elders, letters to publishers, what
20 needs to be made clear locally. So the Australia branch
21 committee certainly has that authority.
22
23 Q. Who will be the judge of whether your document meets
24 that requirement of not transgressing the scriptures?
25 A. Well, I think anything I say is going to appear
26 immodest, Mr Stewart, but I think the one thing Jehovah's
27 Witnesses can do, whether others agree with it, is make
28 application of the scriptures to the way - to our way of
29 life. So if your point is: does that need approval from
30 the Governing Body or from another source? I would say if
31 we - whatever we do, if it is in harmony with scripture, it
32 is a matter that can be dealt with by the local branch
33 office.
34
35 Q. But if you are to publish something new which sets out
36 how child sexual abuse allegations are to be dealt with
37 within congregations in Australia, would you need to get
38 the clearance or the go-ahead from the Governing Body that
39 what you have set out is fine, because it is not in
40 conflict with the scriptures?
41 A. I think the documents would show that we correspond
42 openly with the Governing Body on matters of
43 interpretation. I think my point is clear, that if
44 recommendations from this Commission, and some things that
45 we can obviously see ourselves - so, for example, if there
46 is a legal requirement, whether it's because of mandatory
47 reporting or because of a criminal law that is less

1 familiar to me than you, but if there are legal
2 implications and we are working outside of those, you can
3 be certain that an adjustment will be made here in
4 Australia and a document produced relative to Australia,
5 including collating those, as you see it - and correctly
6 so - references from decades, that would be better into
7 a single document tailored for the law, the culture, the
8 expectation here in Australia. Absolutely.
9
10 Q. And you would only do that through engagement with the
11 Governing Body?
12 A. That's - as many things could be done here in
13 Australia, what I'm saying is we have such great respect
14 for the Governing Body, we would have no issue at all with
15 corresponding with them back and forward. I am confident
16 there would be no issue, if we don't stray from the
17 scriptures, that they are happy for each branch committee -
18 remembering that those members of the Governing Body are
19 simply, as well, unpaid members of the organisation that
20 are selected from elders from different countries. So
21 that's not the issue. The issue is: is it in harmony with
22 the scriptures and is it appropriate here in Australia.
23 And the Australia branch committee would have that.
24
25 Q. Just on the question of harmony with the scriptures,
26 is it not the case that over time, within the Jehovah's
27 Witness Church, there's been a development or change in
28 understanding of certain scriptures?
29 A. Yes.
30
31 Q. So it's not the case, then, that the scriptures
32 clearly have the same meaning to everyone; it may be that
33 meanings and understandings change over time - is that
34 right?
35 A. I think it is fair to say if we feel that we've got
36 something wrong or have misapplied a scripture, we not only
37 adjust it, but we publish it for all the world to see. So
38 that's true.
39
40 Q. The point is that if the Australia branch, in
41 consolidating and publishing a new procedure, regarded
42 themselves to be in harmony with the scriptures, it may be
43 that the Governing Body took a different view?
44 A. I couldn't say that wouldn't be the case, but I think
45 the point clearly is that whether it's a branch committee
46 as experienced as ours here in Australia, some of them
47 perhaps with more years' experience than some of the

1 members of the Governing Body, I don't think that would be
2 the issue. But if you are saying the need for open
3 communication, that's exactly - that's there. But the
4 Australia branch committee would have that responsibility.
5
6 Q. I'm taking it one step further. Practically, in
7 effect, you would need the agreement of the Governing Body
8 to any new process or procedure that you published,
9 wouldn't you?
10 A. I don't think that's correct, because --
11
12 Q. Because if they disagreed, it would mean that you were
13 not in harmony with the scriptures?
14 A. I think it's such a hypothetical, Mr Stewart, that if
15 we did something that is in harmony with scripture - for
16 example, if mandatory reporting was required here in
17 Australia, we don't need the approval of the Governing
18 Body, because the scriptures give us the approval to
19 comply. So I would say, with respect, the only
20 communication, other than the fact that we have got great
21 respect and would communicate openly from the Governing
22 Body, would be if we had clearly misapplied the scriptures
23 somewhere.
24
25 Q. Let's take a different hypothetical. If you, in
26 Australia, through your considerable experience and
27 learning, came to the view that there had been
28 a misunderstanding of the scripture that applies and
29 requires the two-witness rule, and your conclusion was that
30 it did not, before you could make that part of your
31 process, you would have to get the go-ahead of the
32 Governing Body, wouldn't you?
33 A. I don't think anyone in Jehovah's Witnesses in
34 Australia is ever going to write to the Governing Body and
35 suggest that we have misunderstood Jesus Christ's clearly
36 recorded words in the gospel, but it is a difficult
37 hypothetical, because no-one is going to write that letter.
38
39 Q. I am just understanding what "in harmony with the
40 scriptures" means. I take it that the four documents that
41 I have referred to which set out the procedure, those are
42 in harmony with the scriptures?
43 A. I think we've done our best. If there's something
44 that's not, please, if you brought it to our attention or
45 anyone of Jehovah's Witnesses did, we're happy to look at
46 it. But our understanding is that the material we prepare,
47 we do our best to make it in harmony with the scriptures.

1
2 Q. In some respects, it sets out what the scriptural
3 requirements are - such as, for example, the two-witness
4 rule?
5 A. They are referred to in the letters, yes.
6
7 Q. And there are many other aspects where the scriptural
8 requirement is actually identified and referenced - not so?
9 A. I think you can see that right through our documents.
10
11 Q. So is it the case that, as I would understand it, the
12 Australia branch would not be able to adopt and publish
13 a new procedure that was not in harmony with the four
14 documents that I have mentioned?
15 A. I'm just trying to get my head around the
16 hypothetical, but if there was something in the 2012
17 letter, for example, that was not applicable in Australia,
18 that letter, while the spiritual concepts and essence of it
19 have come from the Governing Body, that letter is produced
20 in Australia and if there was something that was not
21 applicable in Australia, the Australia branch committee is
22 obligated to adjust it.
23
24 Q. Well, the letter is produced in Australia, but it's
25 done on the basis of almost word-for-word what was produced
26 to you from the Governing Body in the United States - not
27 so?
28 A. And that's because that letter is based on scriptural
29 principles, so I didn't - I certainly, personally, didn't
30 see anything in that letter that needs adjusting for
31 Australia.
32
33 Q. Well, let's take something, for example, that
34 presumably - you can correct me if I am wrong - is not
35 based on scriptural principle. In tab 120, the Shepherd
36 the Flock document, at page 131, which is what you were
37 looking at previously, paragraph 18, it says in the case of
38 child abuse:
39
40 You --
41
42 that's the elder --
43
44 should immediately call the branch office
45 for direction.
46
47 That's a very clear direction. If, in Australia, you took

1 the view that that's not the best way and that the elder
2 should immediately do something else and only thereafter
3 call the branch office, would you be free to adopt and
4 publish a procedure which differed with that direction?
5 A. Mr Stewart, it's a pretty vague hypothetical,
6 because - but I follow your example. I would struggle to
7 understand why, as, for all the reasons that you have spent
8 a week demonstrating, when a congregation elder, perhaps
9 once in his life, has to deal with an allegation of child
10 abuse, why we would use an example - would we change that
11 in Australia? Like, the clear - that's going to be
12 applicable around the country.
13
14 If I can, this - as I said, there are hundreds of
15 thousands of elders that have this publication - in the
16 Highlands of New Guinea, in Eastern Europe, Asia, whatever.
17 There are things that are specific to the countries -
18 sensitivities, cultural issues, legal implications. For an
19 elder that, once in his lifetime, deals with an allegation
20 of child abuse, we're always going to say, "Why don't you
21 ring the branch office?" But I appreciate you using it as
22 an example, and if there was an applicable example, we
23 would have the authority to adjust that for Australia.
24
25 Q. Well, that's the point I'm getting at, Mr Spinks,
26 because by saying my hypothetical is unrealistic doesn't
27 answer the question. You understand that the substance of
28 the question is to try to determine what are the bounds of
29 the Australia branch's authority to determine something
30 different from what is set out in these documents that have
31 come down from New York. That's what I am trying to
32 understand from you.
33 A. Yes, I appreciate it, and I apologise if
34 I misunderstood that in any way. But I can only restate,
35 again, that the Australia branch does have that authority.
36 So, for example, in the United States, they have a much
37 stronger ecclesiastical privilege - lawyer/client
38 privilege, perhaps - even than we do here in Australia.
39
40 Q. Sorry, just to clarify, that's in the law, you are
41 talking about; not in the church?
42 A. Yes, I'm talking about in the law. No, no, in the
43 law. So, by its very nature, that means that the Australia
44 branch committee is responsible for ensuring that the
45 scriptural policies are followed in harmony with Australian
46 law. Now, in the United States there are all different
47 mandatory reporting requirements. That branch office would

1 have to do the same. There are very few requirements in
2 some of the Eastern European countries or the Pacific
3 Islands, so those branches have to do their best.
4
5 Q. The reason for that is because the scriptures say, as
6 I understand it, that you must obey the law. So if the law
7 requires you to do something different in one country from
8 another, then that is in accordance with the scriptures and
9 you will do it differently - not so?
10 A. Primarily, certainly that's the case, to make sure
11 that --
12
13 Q. But I'm addressing a different question, which is as
14 to, in your wisdom, deciding that something should be done
15 differently - the scope that you have to actually adopt
16 that. So I will take a different example. In the same
17 document at page 90, so Shepherd the Flock, tab 120,
18 page 90, paragraph 3, this is now within the judicial
19 hearing procedure, and it says:
20
21 Hear only those witnesses who have relevant
22 testimony ...
23
24 and so on, and it says:
25
26 Observers should not be present for moral
27 support.
28
29 If, in Australia, you decided that a person complaining of
30 sexual abuse is entitled to have a support person present
31 and, therefore, an observer, would you have scope to do
32 that?
33 A. We already do it, Mr Stewart. We already do it. That
34 paragraph, if I can, is not talking - and I think this is
35 where some of the confusion comes in, again. That
36 chapter 7 is the judicial hearing procedure for all manner
37 of - this is not a child abuse manual and it wasn't
38 intended to be presented that way. This is a shepherding
39 manual. It deals from --
40
41 Q. Yes, we understand that.
42 A. Okay. So that context is not child abuse and, in
43 fact, where it makes direct reference to child abuse, it's
44 generally inserted.
45
46 That paragraph is talking about a general judicial
47 process, and --

1
2 Q. We understand that, Mr Spinks. Can we get to the
3 point here --
4 A. Could I just make the point: that paragraph is
5 talking about the accused. It's talking about the accused.
6 It says "Hear only those --"
7
8 Q. I understand it talks about the accused, but it would
9 seem to go further. It says:
10
11 In the hearing, observers should not be
12 present.
13
14 A. I think I've already made the point that we wouldn't
15 have - in this day and age and for a long time, we would
16 not have a victim or a survivor of child abuse in a
17 judicial hearing. This is talking about the accused. This
18 is talking about --
19
20 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Spinks, I am sorry to interrupt you,
21 but I can't see how this paragraph is talking about the
22 accused. It is talking about witnesses who have relevant
23 testimony regarding the alleged wrongdoing. Now, that is
24 people who are bringing evidence against the accused. How
25 is it a paragraph about the accused?
26 A. I apologise, your Honour. The middle sentence -
27 I appreciate it is about witnesses, it says:
28
29 Those who intend to testify only about the
30 character of the accused ...
31
32 That is our point. I appreciate again --
33
34 Q. That's character evidence, and that might be good or
35 bad for the accused. But that is the second sentence.
36 Then the third sentence is a general statement about
37 witnesses not hearing the details of the testimony of other
38 witnesses - that's a general proposition. And then:
39
40 Observers should not be present for moral
41 support.
42
43 How is this a statement directed to the accused?
44 A. I apologise again, your Honour, if that sentence is
45 poorly written, and I can see --
46
47 Q. It is not the sentence. The whole paragraph is

1 talking about witnesses to the wrongdoing.
2 A. And again, your Honour, we would not expect a victim
3 or survivor of child abuse to be in the judicial setting in
4 this day and age. Did that happen in those incidents 24,
5 25 years ago? Yes. Is that clearly set out, other than in
6 the document that we have asked to tender, the 1995
7 Watchtower? Could this paragraph be better written to say
8 this is all about the accused? I agree totally. Our
9 application of it, in practice, in the service department,
10 has always been for the accused, who is trying to defend
11 himself against allegations, to not have observers there
12 for moral support, other than the specific witnesses. We
13 don't want the survivor there as a witness at that judicial
14 hearing.
15
16 Q. Mr Spinks, the document itself, you understand, is
17 very confusing, to say the least?
18 A. I do. I do.
19
20 MR STEWART: Q. Just to go back to something you said,
21 Mr Spinks, this particular document - I'm looking on the
22 reverse of the title page, at Ringtail 0004 - is published
23 in 2010 by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of
24 Pennsylvania, published in New York, and this particular
25 one that I have before me is a 2012 printing of it. This
26 applies or was issued to elders throughout the world; is
27 that right?
28 A. Correct.
29
30 Q. So this document, or its equivalent, does not change
31 from country to country?
32 A. It's in multiple languages, but it would be basically
33 the same.
34
35 Q. Uniform?
36 A. Yes.
37
38 Q. I notice you use the word "lands" rather than
39 "countries". Can you explain that?
40 A. I should know my geography better. How many lands are
41 there in the world, Mr Stewart? How many countries? I've
42 got an idea --
43
44 Q. I'm not here to answer your questions, particularly
45 such difficult ones.
46 A. I apologise. You have asked me the question. I'm not
47 certain how many countries there are in the world and how

1 many lands, but it's simply - yes, I can't answer the
2 question, but --
3
4 Q. What is a land? When you say there are Jehovah's
5 Witness congregations in X number of lands, what do you
6 mean? Do you not mean countries?
7 A. It would include islands, so I think that is
8 probably - it is probably not a significant point, but it
9 would be 239 different islands or countries. I didn't
10 write it. I'm not certain what it means.
11
12 Q. So you don't know why the language of "lands" is
13 adopted by the Jehovah's Witnesses rather than "countries"?
14 A. Well, I don't think we refer - we use "islands", so
15 whether there's some --
16
17 Q. Indonesia, for example - is Indonesia one land or
18 however many it is, a thousand, lands, however many islands
19 there are in Indonesia.
20 A. No, you've got me, Mr Stewart. I couldn't explain.
21 I don't know the reason.
22
23 Q. All right. That was just by the way. Can we look at
24 paragraph 35 of your statement. This is now dealing with
25 the investigation stage, as I understand it, responding to
26 reports and allegations. You say that two elders, with the
27 consent of a parent/guardian, would talk to the victim with
28 the parent/guardian present. Now, firstly, is it necessary
29 that two elders undertake this role?
30 A. No, but I think what we have presented there is what
31 would normally happen. But could there be a situation -
32 I reread that 1998 document and it said one of the elders
33 and a parent or a witness, so - generally, two elders
34 investigate matters, but could it be a mother, a sister in
35 the congregation, a close friend and one of the elders,
36 yes.
37
38 Q. So the generic advice and direction is that two elders
39 must investigate, but you are saying that need not be
40 followed?
41 A. Absolutely.
42
43 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Spinks, one of the concerns that has
44 been expressed to us - and I'm sure you are aware of this -
45 is that - and I assume this is true of most of your
46 churches - the elder is likely to know, or know well, an
47 alleged abuser, if it is a male.

1 A. That's true.
2
3 Q. How do you think it is for a young person having to go
4 to talk about intimate details of their abuse to a person
5 who they know is a person well known to the abuser?
6 A. Extremely challenging; perhaps - I just want to take
7 your point on board, your Honour. Perhaps lessened a
8 little by the fact that these same elders - we're not
9 talking about in a church confessional with robes or
10 whatever; we're also talking about men that have been
11 family friends to the young ones, they've had meals in each
12 other's homes, so the challenge is also - in other
13 ways facilitates that level of friendship and trust that
14 exists. But I acknowledge the challenge that you are
15 raising, certainly.
16
17 Q. What do we do about it?
18 A. I think the point that we have made - and I'm not
19 suggesting that I have got answers to these deep questions
20 that the Commission is raising, but I think one of the
21 points that we've made is that whether it's a male or a
22 female or a male and female together - a man and a woman
23 together - at that stage, whoever it is needs to have the
24 genuine concern of the victim, to be kindly, sensitive,
25 compassionate. That same would apply whether that is a man
26 or a woman, but --
27
28 Q. That's undoubtedly true of anyone in this role, but
29 that's not addressing the issue. The issue is that the
30 person who is being asked to accept and believe the
31 allegation is known to be a close or good friend of the
32 alleged abuser, and that's, as we discussed, inherent in
33 the process, isn't it?
34 A. Yes, your Honour, and I imagine that's going to be the
35 same in any community where the individuals - in a
36 faith-based organisation where the individuals know and
37 care for one another, that's a challenge that I understand,
38 that you are raising.
39
40 Q. I'm not sure that it is in all, by any means, but,
41 again, I stress: your adherents are required to bring
42 their allegations to the church, aren't they?
43 A. In a broad sense I'm happy to say yes, because we know
44 that's the case. I think the one thing that has got lost a
45 little in some of the assertions that have been made is
46 that I don't see published anywhere, and I know to be the
47 case, that - we don't demand or scripturally enforce

1 a victim of rape, a victim of child abuse - it's actually
2 a misapplication. There have been a few scriptures
3 misapplied, but that's a clear misapplication of Leviticus
4 chapter 5 verse 1, as an open reading of it would show, but
5 we don't require a victim to come forward if they choose
6 not to, and that's why we have, in some cases - helping
7 victims who are not yet ready to reveal who the perpetrator
8 is.
9
10 THE CHAIR: Yes.
11
12 MR STEWART: Q. Does it have to be an elder who
13 undertakes the investigation? Let me put that differently:
14 does it have to be an elder to whom an allegation of child
15 sexual abuse is made? In other words, you have said it
16 might be an elder with someone else, perhaps a sister from
17 the congregation or whomever, but does it have to be an
18 elder at all?
19 A. I think, again, if you re-read the case studies, you
20 will find numerous examples of where the parents or
21 guardians have provided the statement without intervention
22 from the elders, so that the clear answer to that is, no,
23 that doesn't have to --
24
25 Q. Well, they have provided it to the elder?
26 A. So, if you are saying, then, at some point are the
27 elders involved in the investigation process, the answer is
28 yes.
29
30 THE CHAIR: Q. Why is it necessary to have elders from
31 that particular church carry out this function, as opposed
32 to going outside, to people who aren't known?
33 A. I think it's a very - I think it is an excellent
34 suggestion and one that has been discussed at length by us
35 over the last couple of weeks when that has been raised.
36 I think we've taken one step towards it. We've got a lot
37 of other steps to take, as you have highlighted, but one
38 step is, at least when it gets to the judicial stage, to
39 make sure that that has outside involvement. But I think,
40 again, it's a very good point, your Honour.
41
42 Q. Is there any possibility of having women join in the
43 decision-making process?
44 A. Scripturally - I appreciate that's the pivotal
45 question and that comes to the question of is it likely
46 that women will take on the role of elders in the
47 congregation, and, scripturally, that's not the

1 arrangement.
2
3 Q. Your answer to my question is: there is no
4 possibility of women being involved in the decision-making
5 process; is that right?
6 A. I'm happy to say a clear yes. Will Jehovah's
7 Witnesses find a way to adjust the scriptural process of
8 the elders being men in the congregation, and my answer to
9 that is no.
10
11 Q. You understand the Bible, I assume, in its social and
12 political context, when it was written?
13 A. I do.
14
15 Q. And social and political contexts change over time,
16 don't they?
17 A. They do.
18
19 Q. Does the approach of Jehovahs to the application of
20 the Bible, as a consequence, change as society changes?
21 A. If you are referring to Jehovah's Witnesses, I - we
22 won't change what is a clear scriptural arrangement. So
23 are there things that we would all do - that we do
24 differently now that are based on Bible principles?
25 I think your Honour has highlighted a very clear one, in
26 that do Jehovah's Witnesses apply the Mosaic law from an
27 ancient civilisation that dealt with the theocratic, the
28 civil and the criminal all as one code? No, we don't,
29 because, as Mr de Rooy said, Christ ended the law. A clear
30 distinction between theocratic and the law. So have things
31 changed over the time? Yes. Will some of those clear
32 instructions in the scriptures change from the Christian
33 era? I don't believe they will for Jehovah's Witnesses,
34 because of the application of the arrangements in the
35 Bible.
36
37 And so I have reasoned through this myself,
38 your Honour, that - will Jehovah's Witnesses adjust what we
39 see as clear instructions in the scriptures? Will Muslim
40 people change what they believe in the Koran? Will
41 Aboriginal people change what they believe is in their
42 culture? I think there are just some things that are so
43 deeply a part of their faith and belief system, that what
44 we need to do is make sure that we conform with the law,
45 that we do our best to harmonise with the culture. But do
46 some of those things fit neatly into 21st Century
47 Australia - I understand the point that you are making.

1
2 Q. I take it that if it was the case that there was
3 a conflict between what science might tell us about human
4 behaviour and the way these things should be dealt with and
5 your understanding of the Bible, then the Bible would still
6 prevail?
7 A. All scripture is inspired of God. We - like many
8 Christians, we are not fanatically trying to find
9 references to make life difficult; we are applying
10 scripture as we read it, in the best way we can, to
11 sensitively integrate with modern society.
12
13 Q. But you understand the point: there may well be
14 areas, and we're in one such area, where science has taught
15 us a lot in recent years about sexual abuse and how to
16 appropriately respond to it, but if that science was in
17 conflict with your understanding of the Bible, then the
18 Bible would prevail; is that correct?
19 A. Absolutely the Bible will prevail. And if I could,
20 your Honour, that's why hundreds of Jehovah's Witnesses are
21 in prison in South Korea; in Taganrog, Russia; Azerbaijan;
22 Eritrea, because they won't budge on a clear Bible
23 principle that will endure forever.
24
25 Q. So if the law of the country was to prescribe a mode
26 of behaviour which was in conflict with your understanding
27 of the Bible, what would happen then?
28 A. We would apply the words in the book of Acts, 5:29, to
29 obey God as ruler rather than man, and as we did here
30 during the Second World War, as thousands of Jehovah's
31 Witnesses did when they refused to come under the Nazi
32 regime. The fact that the government at the time makes
33 a law, Jehovah's Witnesses will always obey scripture, and
34 that's why we have 28 successful outcomes in the European
35 Court of Human Rights, because we won't budge where there
36 is a clear Bible principle that happens to be in conflict
37 with a government of the day.
38
39 THE CHAIR: We might take lunch.
40
41 MR STEWART: Your Honour, with your leave, just before we
42 do, I might ask Mr Spinks to think about something at
43 lunch, because he may be able to help us after lunch.
44
45 Q. Mr Spinks, taking this procedure and the principles
46 that govern the procedure, what I would like to ask you to
47 identify is what elements of it are based on the

1 scriptures, such that they could not be changed. So one
2 that springs to mind is the two-witness rule, for example -
3 maybe I am mistaken on that, you can explain to me later.
4 But what elements are there that are required by the
5 scriptures, so that we understand the constraints within
6 which you work in developing a proper system.
7 A. Okay.
8
9 THE CHAIR: Yes. We will take lunch.
10
11 LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT
12
13 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Spinks just before we get to the
14 question I asked you before lunch, perhaps we can deal with
15 the document you mentioned earlier. I hand you a copy of a
16 document. Is this the document you were referring to,
17 Mr Spinks, when you said there was a 1998 document that you
18 were able to find?
20
21 Q. On the third page, in the second paragraph numbered 2,
22 in other words, beneath the heading "Before Forming a
23 Judicial Committee", is that the paragraph you had in mind?
25
26 Q. So it asks the question:
27
28 When is it not advisable for the witness to
29 confront the accused alone? What should
30 the elders do?
31
32 Then the answer is given:
33
34 When he is a party to the wrongdoing, is a
35 victim, or is extremely timid. Children
36 who are victims of molestation should not
37 be required to confront the accused. In
38 some cases two elders or an elder and the
39 witness can confront the accused.
40
41 This document you found in the circumstances you explained
42 earlier; is that right?
43 A. Correct.
44
45 MR STEWART: I tender the document, your Honour.
46
47 THE CHAIR: What is the document? What do I call it?

1
2 MR STEWART: I'll ask the witness, your Honour.
3
4 Q. How should we properly title this document, Mr Spinks?
5 A. We know it as an S-337 form, which is the six-monthly
6 outline that the circuit overseer, the travelling overseer,
7 meets with all the elders in his circuit to discuss, so
8 it's the circuit overseer's outline for the elders'
9 meeting, S-337.
10
11 THE CHAIR: We'll make the document 29-020.
12
13 EXHIBIT #29-020 CIRCUIT OVERSEER'S OUTLINE FOR THE ELDERS'
14 MEETING, FORM S-337
15
16 THE CHAIR: What is the paragraph you just took us to?
17
18 MR STEWART: The third page, the second
19 paragraph numbered 2. In other words, beneath the heading
20 "Before Forming a Judicial Committee (4 minutes )" and
21 there is a paragraph numbered 2.
22
23 THE CHAIR: I'm not sure I've got the right document.
24 I see, the second "2".
25
26 MR STEWART: Yes, your Honour.
27
28 THE CHAIR: Very well.
29
30 MR STEWART: Q. Are we to understand, Mr Spinks, that
31 this applied in the six-month period, September 1998
32 through to February 1999?
33 A. The circuit overseer would have met with each Body of
34 Elders successively through that six-month period.
35
36 Q. That paragraph doesn't appear, I take it, in
37 subsequent S-337 forms?
38 A. No, each one is completely different.
39
40 THE CHAIR: Q. So I understand the paragraph, the
41 question is - this contemplates one of your members asking
42 a question, "When is it not advisable for a witness to
43 confront the accused alone?"; is that right? Now, "What
44 should the elders do?" "When he is a party to the
45 wrongdoing, is a victim or is extremely timid" - I'm not
46 sure I'm understanding - "Children who are victims should
47 not be required to confront the accused". Can you help me

1 to understand the English of this?
2 A. Certainly. So just the format, if I could briefly, is
3 a question and answer discussion. So the circuit overseer
4 would present the question, open it up for responses, is
5 the usual format for these meetings, and then the bracketed
6 section is for him to either redirect or help the elders to
7 see that this is the correct response. So in that it
8 says - so we're now talking about the witness, victim,
9 whichever. It says:
10
11 When [that person] is a party to the
12 wrongdoing ...
13
14 in one instance, so perhaps a shared sin, if that were the
15 case. That wouldn't be appropriate. Secondly --
16
17 Q. Sorry, what wouldn't be appropriate?
18 A. Well, for example, we wouldn't be suggesting that the
19 party to adultery, for example, would be required to
20 confront the accused in that setting. That's one scenario,
21 that where the witness is actually a party to the
22 wrongdoing, involved in the wrongdoing, that wouldn't be an
23 expectation. And then "or is a victim", so - "or is
24 extremely timid". They are just some examples of settings
25 where it wouldn't be appropriate.
26
27 Q. "Children" - what about women who were abused as
28 children? In other words, adults who come forward with an
29 allegation that they were abused when they were a child?
30 A. Then, they'd be a victim in that first sentence.
31
32 Q. Now, in some cases, it is said, two elders or an elder
33 and the witness can confront the accused.
34 A. Mmm-hmm.
35
36 Q. So does that mean that if an elder does it, they would
37 do it with the witness - is that the way that works?
38 A. It's difficult for me to go back and interpret it
39 fully, but how we would read that and read it at the time
40 is that either two elders could confront the accused or one
41 elder and someone who is a witness to a particular type of
42 wrongdoing.
43
44 Q. And the elders, again, would be men?
45 A. The elders are men.
46
47 Q. So in the scenario we contemplate, the child, or adult

1 abused as a child, has to put their story in the hands of
2 two men; is that right?
3 A. I think we've given examples through all the recent
4 case studies that that's not an expectation that we have.
5 Each of the cases that I reviewed, back from recent times
6 back, show that either the parents, caring guardian, a
7 friend, whoever it is, can work with the victim to have
8 that put in writing. We don't see that there's a situation
9 where the victim, unless they choose to do so - perhaps in
10 the case of a mature minor, or a survivor, might choose to
11 do that, be happy to do it, but, otherwise, a statement - a
12 written statement, either provided by the victim or the
13 survivor, or recorded by a witness and an elder, or two
14 witnesses, would be sufficient.
15
16 MR STEWART: Q. That is under the heading "Before
17 Forming a Judicial Committee", so that applies during that
18 stage - is that right - the investigative stage?
19 A. That's what that's referring to there, yes.
20
21 Q. The next heading is "Judicial Committee Hearing
22 Procedure". You'll see in paragraph 2 that the instruction
23 is to explain what is to be done if the accused does not
24 admit guilt, and then in parentheses it says: "The alleged
25 wrongdoer has right to face his accusers." Are we to
26 understand that in the judicial committee process, if the
27 accused does not admit guilt, then the victim must make the
28 allegation to the abuser?
29 A. No, that's not correct. That's covered in questions
30 that you've raised previously, in the process of the
31 judicial committee, where it says if, for some other
32 reason - the letter presented to the accused is sufficient
33 to face the abuser. So we wouldn't expect that a victim or
34 a survivor would have to face the abuser, except in some
35 instances where they wished to do that, and I'm aware where
36 that's happened on occasion, although it would be
37 exception.
38
39 Q. Would it be the case that one would expect circuit
40 overseers, who were presenting this discussion with elders
41 in the particular six-month period, to have conveyed to the
42 elders that the alleged wrongdoer has the right to face his
43 accusers in the judicial committee procedure?
44 A. I think I understand. Could you just repeat that for
45 me again, please?
46
47 Q. The people to whom this was presented - I understand

1 this is an outline for a discussion, a led discussion by
2 circuit overseers. The persons to whom this was presented,
3 the elders at that time, would, from this, I take it, have
4 understood that the alleged wrongdoer has a right to face
5 his accusers in the judicial committee hearing procedure?
6 A. I think by default - this was in 1998, so the previous
7 Elders' Handbook, the KS91, would have spelt out that
8 procedure, and that may have already been mentioned through
9 the course of the Commission. This statement here and the
10 comment I referred to from the 1995 Watchtower is clearly
11 our realisation, or the beginning of our realisation, that
12 there are situations that are exceptional, and no more
13 exceptional than a child abuse situation or a survivor or a
14 victim. So this is actually stating that there need to be
15 exceptions to that usual judicial process.
16
17 Q. Well, it's only stating it in respect of the
18 pre judicial hearing component. You agreed with that
19 earlier?
20 A. That's the sub-heading there, yes.
21
22 Q. Getting back to the question I asked you just before
23 the adjournment, have you been able to identify those
24 components to the procedure that are scripture-based in
25 such a way that it would not be open to you to divert from
26 them?
27 A. I took the question away with me. I'm happy to
28 comment on it. It's a reasonably wide question. I think
29 you used specifically what you called the "two-witness" --
30
31 Q. I used that as what occurred to me to be an example of
32 such a scriptural principle that can't be departed from.
33 A. That's correct. So if the question is are Jehovah's
34 Witnesses likely or open to changing what we see as a
35 scriptural requirement, repeated by Christ Jesus himself,
36 that before you could take judicial action, in the absence
37 of other evidence or confession, that that aspect of the
38 process would need to be held in abeyance. Do I think
39 there is flexibility to change that? I don't see how,
40 because it's a clear scriptural injunction.
41
42 Is it right to say that because of that one-witness
43 rule nothing can be done and nothing is done - that's
44 certainly not the case, and the 2012 letter spells that out
45 as well.
46
47 Q. Perhaps we can come to those aspects in a minute. I'm

1 just asking you to identify those aspects of the process
2 which are scripturally based such that you are not in a
3 position to change them even if you wanted to. So you've
4 identified the two-witness rule as one component. Are
5 there others?
6 A. I'm probably struggling - if you have a suggestion,
7 I'm happy to listen to which component, but it seems to me
8 that scripturally the two things that have been raised by
9 his Honour and yourself - the process of having women
10 involved in the judicial process as elders, as it were, or
11 the requirement, within our rules of evidence in handling a
12 matter, in the absence of a confession or circumstantial
13 evidence or other indicators, would we act judicially on
14 one witness as the courts would do, the answer would be no,
15 and I don't see that changing, in harmony with the
16 scriptures.
17
18 Q. Mr Spinks, we've already identified that. I'm now
19 trying to see whether there is anything in addition to
20 that. For example, I take it that it's a requirement of
21 the scriptures that it is the elders who act judicially and
22 not anyone else?
24
25 Q. I take it that it's a requirement of the scriptures
26 that elders must be men, and can't be women?
28
29 Q. Are there other components of the process that the
30 scriptures require - for example, that the accused has a
31 right to face his or her accuser?
32 A. I think we've discussed that. We have no expectation
33 of a victim or a survivor having to face their - and
34 there's nothing unscriptural about that. They could do
35 that in the form of a letter, as we've explained, or a
36 statement or other witnesses. The investigation, the
37 judicial process, would gladly accept that.
38
39 Q. So your understanding of the scriptures is that that
40 is not a requirement of the scriptures, that the accuser
41 makes the accusation to the accused?
42 A. I think, clearly, as with any rules of evidence, the
43 accuser has that opportunity - whether that's via a letter,
44 a statement being presented with the facts. That conforms
45 perfectly with the scriptural requirement.
46
47 Q. What about in respect of outcomes, is there a

1 scriptural requirement with regard to what are the possible
2 outcomes from a judicial process?
3 A. I think the scriptures are clear, that 1 Timothy 5 -
4 sorry, 1 Corinthians chapter 5, where it talks about
5 "removing the wicked person" - so will Jehovah's Witnesses
6 continue with the practice of excommunication, despite the
7 fact that it's a rare arrangement in 21st Century
8 Australia? Yes, we will, because it's scriptural. Will we
9 continue with the scriptural practice of reproving of
10 individuals who have shown themselves sufficiently
11 repenting, or reinstating into the congregation individuals
12 who are sufficiently repentant? That's all clearly set out
13 in the scriptures.
14
15 Q. Are there any other aspects of the judicial process
16 you'd like to identify as being based on the scriptures
17 such that you could not depart from it?
18 A. No, I can't think of a specific thing, but I'm happy
19 to comment if there was something specific that you had in
20 mind.
21
22 Q. Perhaps something will arise. Can I ask you to take a
23 look at tab 126, which should come up on the screen before
24 you. This is a letter from the World Headquarters to "All
25 Branch Committees" and one would anticipate it to have gone
26 to all branch committees throughout the world; is that
27 right?
29
30 Q. It attaches - if we can look at the next page -
31 Guidelines for Branch Office Service Desks, and this deals
32 with, amongst other things, dealing with allegations of
33 child sexual abuse; is that correct?
35
36 Q. So in your branch office service desk giving guidance
37 to elders and congregations when they called, you, in turn,
38 will be guided by these guidelines; is that right?
39 A. That's correct - most of it - yes, that's correct.
40
41 Q. If you'd take a look at page 9, which is the
42 second-last one for Ringtail purposes, I think it is 84
43 and, in particular, question 14, if that can be scrolled
44 down. This, as I understand it, sets out revised
45 guidelines on interviewing a young child who is a victim of
46 child abuse; is that right?

1
2 Q. And if you read 46, it says:
3
4 When the elders call the branch office
5 regarding a child abuse matter, they may
6 ask about the need to interview the victim.
7 In such cases, help the elders to balance
8 the need to investigate with the dangers of
9 inadvertently further traumatising a young
10 child abuse victim. For example, has the
11 accused already confessed to the
12 wrongdoing? Is there more than one accuser
13 thereby already sufficient evidence to
14 handle the matter judicially? ... In such
15 cases, there is likely no need to interview
16 the young child.
17
18 So, if there isn't the further evidence referred to then,
19 if the investigation is to proceed to the next stage, there
20 would have to be an interview with the child; is that
21 right?
22 A. If that's what the parents - if that was the wish of
23 the parents, that's what these guidelines afford. If the
24 parents still wanted to pursue that matter, that's some
25 suggestions there, that's correct.
26
27 Q. Equally, if the elders wanted to pursue it?
28 A. Well, the elders aren't authorised - I think that's
29 made clear: the elders are never authorised to act with
30 regard to a child without the consent or request of the
31 parents.
32
33 Q. But isn't the result that in circumstances where the
34 allegation is made, and maybe very credibly, if there isn't
35 other evidence and to interview the child would be too
36 traumatic for the child, so the elders are reluctant to do
37 that, they would then be left not being able to act
38 judicially; is that right?
40
41 Q. That's not a good place to end up, is it?
42 A. Absolutely.
43
44 Q. So what can, or should, be done about that?
45 A. I think we come back to the same question of, at that
46 point, the parents would be made well aware that the elders
47 are limited, with regard to judicial action, in some

1 circumstances, and they would be transparent with the
2 parents with that. The parents would be reminded that it's
3 their absolute right to take this to the authorities, and
4 the elders will support them in it. That is repeatedly the
5 advice given and, if I can add, in each of the calls that
6 we've taken at the branch office in the time that I've been
7 there and prior, we also have the elders - if the offender
8 is known in the congregation, the elders also inform the
9 offender that the parents have been told they will have the
10 full support of the elders in taking the matter to the
11 police.
12
13 Q. That suggests, in some sense, it's better if the child
14 can't be interviewed, or shouldn't be interviewed, because
15 then the matter is more likely to go to the authorities
16 than otherwise?
17 A. We're always happy if the matter goes to the
18 authorities. I think you - we never suggest that the
19 spiritual handling of the matter within the congregation,
20 in harmony with Bible principles, is ever a substitute for
21 the matter being reported to the authorities. We never
22 suggest that.
23
24 Q. If you look at paragraph 49, it says:
25
26 Conduct the interviewing in a loving
27 manner.
28
29 There is then a scriptural reference:
30
31 Although it is preferred to have only one
32 elder conduct the interview, another elder
33 should be present as an observer.
34
35 As I understand it, it is the requirement that two elders
36 are nevertheless present?
37 A. That's - generally that's the case. If the parents
38 are happy with that arrangement, it would be - the reason
39 I'm probably struggling a bit to do it, because we've never
40 done it, Mr Stewart. I appreciate that that's here and
41 it's an option. It's a worldwide document. We've never
42 done this in Australia, but I still think they are
43 reasonable suggestions, should that option be taken. So
44 I'm not stepping away from what's there. It does say
45 another elder as an observer. We've not pursued matters
46 that way, but that's the suggestion that's being made
47 there, certainly.

1
2 Q. You would accept that, for the most part, neither
3 elder would have had any specialised training in
4 interviewing children who have suffered trauma?
5 A. That's - that's quite probable.
6
7 Q. And you would accept that such a specialist from the
8 authorities would know how to avoid the contamination of
9 evidence, avoid being suggestive, or closing down evidence?
10 A. Yes.
11
12 Q. In the case of a child, then, shouldn't there
13 automatically be a report to the child protection
14 authorities, at a minimum?
15 A. That comes back to the same question which we've
16 answered. I'm certainly happy with that arrangement.
17 I have my own personal views and conscience on it. Have we
18 as an organisation directed to elders to do it, or have we
19 done that? I think the answer is clearly no. Despite the
20 fact that there have been many instances of police
21 involvement, we have not claimed to have done that as an
22 organisation.
23
24 Q. Because, if that was the first step, then there would
25 be no need for the elders to be interviewing the child,
26 would there?
27 A. I think that's fair to say, correct, yes.
28
29 Q. Just on the question of sufficiency of evidence in
30 order to act judicially, I understand that what's required
31 is a clear and unambiguous confession, or two or three
32 witnesses to the same event or to separate incidents of the
33 same kind of wrongdoing?
35
36 Q. That remains the position today, as I understand what
37 you've said?
38 A. That's the broad principles, yes.
39
40 Q. Of course, you accept that in the case of sexual
41 abuse, more often than not, there will be no second
42 witness?
43 A. To the assault, correct.
44
45 Q. Do you accept it's also the case that sex abuse
46 allegations by children are almost always justified?
47 A. I've - I've certainly read that to be the case.

1 I have no reason to question that in most cases, yes.
2
3 Q. It is in The Watchtower's own publications. Is that
4 what you're referring to?
5 A. It probably is, but I've certainly read it externally
6 as well: I have no question over that. I agree with what
7 you're saying there.
8
9 Q. I will refer you quickly to tab 80 - I have the wrong
10 reference, but it's a Watchtower publication which I can
11 come back to. As I understand you, you identified this
12 sufficiency of evidence as being scripturally based and you
13 can't depart from that; is that right?
14 A. For taking a specific action, judicial action, that
15 requires, by our rules of evidence, those things that you
16 refer to, yes.
17
18 Q. Insofar as a second witness is concerned, is that
19 requirement covered by, for example, scientific evidence?
20 A. Certainly.
21
22 Q. So if there was some external forensic scientific or
23 direct evidence which is not of an observer to the
24 incident, but someone who observes some corroborative
25 aspect to the incident, that would be sufficient, would it?
26 A. We go much further than that, Mr Stewart. The answer
27 is yes. We've disfellowshipped people for being in an
28 inappropriate setting with a child, where there is an
29 allegation or they have been warned. So I think, if I can
30 clarify, that while we've acknowledged the concern over the
31 fact that two witnesses are required to say that a specific
32 act took place with regard to sexual assault, and we
33 completely understand the limitations there, but a witness
34 to say that an individual came out of the child's room,
35 where they weren't entitled to be - I recall one incident
36 where an individual was knelt down with a child in the toy
37 section of a department store, and it was dealt with
38 because there was an allegation and he had been warned. So
39 I think the thing to have real clarity on is that we're not
40 so naive as to think there is going to be a second witness
41 to a specific act of sexual assault, but we, as the case
42 files will show, have disfellowshipped people for being in
43 an inappropriate setting where there is some allegation.
44 Two witnesses are not required to that specific act. But
45 is there a limitation at times for proceeding further
46 judicially in some regards? We acknowledge that.
47

1 Q. If I can take you to the Shepherd handbook at page 72,
2 tab 120, at the foot of the page, paragraph 39 deals with
3 if the accused denies the accusation. This is in the
4 section dealing with the investigation, so prior to the
5 judicial committee being formed. You'll see about five
6 lines from the end it says:
7
8 If the accuser or the accused is unwilling
9 to meet with the elders or if the accused
10 continues to deny the accusation of a
11 single witness and the wrongdoing is not
12 established, the elders will leave matters
13 in Jehovah's hands.
14
15 So are we to understand that if there isn't a second
16 witness or other evidence sufficient to satisfy that
17 requirement as you've explained, and there isn't a
18 confession, and the accused refuses to meet with the
19 elders, then the matter is left?
20 A. That's not correct. I think as you're aware, that
21 section is specifically dealing with judicial action where
22 scripturally - I feel obliged, if I can, just one verse,
23 just to show why I say that. If I can just flick it over,
24 I think it's in - if I can, 1 Timothy, chapter 5 - should
25 I continue?
26
27 Q. Go ahead?
28 A. After verse 19 talking about two or three witnesses,
29 verse 24 says:
30
31 The sins of some men are publicly known,
32 leading directly to judgment, but those of
33 other men become evident later.
34
35 Verse 25 says:
36
37 ... those that are otherwise cannot be kept
38 hidden.
39
40 So the matter is not concluded --
41
42 Q. I am sorry to interrupt you, Mr Spinks. I should have
43 clarified my question or put it more clearly. What I mean
44 is insofar as judicial action is concerned, the matter is
45 concluded; is that right?
46 A. If there's no second witness or evidence to a
47 disfellowshipping offence - not necessarily the specific

1 sexual assault or act, but corroborating evidence, as I've
2 mentioned, such as inappropriate contact with a child where
3 an allegation exists, that would be considered as
4 evidence - the individual may not be disfellowshipped for
5 the specific sexual act that's being alleged, but, as has
6 previously been described, they would be, or could be,
7 disfellowshipped for brazen conduct, which, as described in
8 the Elders' Handbook here, is conduct that is shocking to
9 us in general, the community, and in violation of Bible
10 principles. So even things like sexting a child,
11 pornography, an inappropriate setting.
12
13 So to your specific question about two witnesses to a
14 specific sexual assault, we know that that would be an
15 exception, but there are often circumstances surrounding
16 that - in fact, perhaps more often than not - that
17 substantiate the claim of the victim.
18
19 Q. I want to deal with outcomes in relation to the
20 judicial process. As I understand it, once a judicial
21 committee is formed and deals with an allegation, the first
22 outcome is guilt or innocence - in other words, is it
23 established or isn't it; is that right?
24 A. Correct.
25
26 Q. The second outcome is, if guilt, there is an inquiry
27 as to repentance?
28 A. Correct.
29
30 Q. If there is repentance, then there is reproval and not
31 disfellowshipping; is that right?
33
34 Q. If there isn't repentance found to exist, or
35 sufficiently, then there is disfellowshipping?
36 A. Correct.
37
38 Q. Insofar as repentance is concerned, those requirements
39 are set out, are they, in the Shepherd handbook, so that's
40 tab 120, page 91 and onwards through to page 94; is that
41 right?
43
44 Q. As I understand it, it's not part of that assessment
45 of repentance any assessment of risk of reoffending?
46 Perhaps I can qualify that - other than a belief in what
47 the offender says in that regard?

1 A. I think that would be the case in any judiciary, that,
2 without having a crystal ball or being able to look back,
3 any claims of regret, repentance, would have to be
4 determined at the time, but what you say is correct.
5
6 Q. The difference in a civil court setting, for example,
7 is that there are likely to be expert reports from
8 psychologists and others as to the risk of reoffending.
9 That wouldn't be part of your judicial process --
10 A. That's true.
11
12 Q. You would have heard Dr Applewhite give evidence that
13 once somebody abuses, once their internal mechanisms of
14 control have allowed them to cross that line once, she
15 said, "I don't have confidence in those internal mechanisms
16 of control for the future."
17
18 Is that view, which is supported by some of the
19 writing, something which has been taken on board by the
20 service desk?
21 A. I think even what's written - whether we understand
22 that as well as the expert witness I think is a valid
23 point, but do we understand that somebody who has abused a
24 child can offend again? Yes, very clearly. Does that move
25 us to say that we will never allow a child abuser to return
26 to the congregation, that we do not believe, despite our
27 Christian faith in the power of God's word and people's
28 capacity to change, that someone could never be
29 rehabilitated - I think if that was the case, no-one would
30 be released from prison, there'd be no programs in place.
31 So we are not naive as to the fact that a child abuser can
32 reoffend, and that's written in our own publications. Are
33 we going to stop rehabilitation when an individual,
34 including [BCH], if that's what it was, when he was
35 disfellowshipped from the congregation for a comparable
36 period to which he was in prison - he still remains
37 disfellowshipped, because he has never apologised to his
38 daughters, he has not made restitution, he hasn't admitted
39 it. But he was released from the prison and into the
40 community, rehabilitated. His neighbours don't know who he
41 is. My point is I understand the challenges of what you're
42 saying, but unless we're going to say child abusers are
43 never to be released into the community, never released
44 from prison, then we, Jehovah's Witnesses, will keep doing
45 our best, take on board what we've learnt through this
46 process and beyond, and adjust our procedures, but it would
47 be un-Christian of me to say that even though nobody else

1 that I'm aware of does it, we'll stop allowing a child
2 abuser to return as a restricted attender at the meetings.
3
4 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Spinks, I think you've missed
5 Mr Stewart's point?
6 A. I apologise.
7
8 Q. What he's pointing out to you is that the civil
9 authorities have available to them a number of mechanisms
10 from the learning of science in relation to the evaluation
11 of the risk and, also, as you probably know, there are
12 processes of treatment.
13 A. Yes.
14
15 Q. Which may be controversial, but nevertheless they are
16 used. What he was pointing out to you was that none of
17 those mechanisms are available to the church; correct?
19
20 Q. So the decisions you're making are being made without
21 the benefit of the learning that's accumulated now over a
22 number of decades?
23 A. Yes, I take that point. Thank you.
24
25 Q. Well, it's a good point, isn't it?
26 A. Your Honour, I take it, and again I don't want to be
27 disrespectful. From a personal point of view, I don't
28 think our system has the authority or, as you say, rightly,
29 the expertise. But for my personal dilemma, again as a
30 father and grandfather, I'm struggling - I'm happy to see
31 the deficiencies in our system and 100 per cent motivated
32 to be a part of the solution, absolutely. Where I'm
33 struggling is the fact that the individual was released
34 back into the community without any constraints. The end
35 result is that the only people that are refusing to let him
36 be rehabilitated in our community are Jehovah's Witnesses.
37 He is out there in the wider community, but I see the
38 limitations of what we have.
39
40 Q. Mr Stewart is not pointing out the particular. He's
41 asking you to consider the matter in general. Do you
42 understand?
43 A. I do, and I agree.
44
45 Q. To say it again, what he's saying to you is that the
46 processes that society has aren't used by the Jehovah's
47 Witnesses to evaluate the risk that's involved.

1 A. And I agree, I accept that, your Honour.
2
3 MR STEWART: Q. Do the Jehovah's Witnesses engage at all
4 in treatment for offenders? In other words, where someone
5 is found to have offended, and perhaps faced up to it,
6 confessed to having offended, do the Jehovah's Witnesses
7 engage at all in assisting that person in getting
8 treatment?
9 A. Professional treatment, medical, psychiatric - I think
10 we've answered that. No, the role of elders in the
11 congregation is a spiritual one and we don't claim to have
12 that expertise.
13
14 Q. I think in some other churches, for example, they
15 would say the same of their priests but they have,
16 nevertheless, set up programs for offenders, and supported
17 offenders through those programs. I'm just wondering
18 whether the Jehovah's Witnesses have done anything like
19 that?
20 A. No.
21
22 Q. I take it not?
23 A. No.
24
25 Q. The reference I missed earlier was tab 82, page 6,
26 Ringtail 241, I think. You'll see it's the Awake!
27 publication, October 1993. Under "Common Misconceptions"
28 on the left-hand side, the second one:
29
30 Misconception: Children fantasise or lie
31 about sexual abuse.
32
33 And if we scroll down a bit further, it says:
34
35 Even the most skeptical of researchers
36 agree that most claims of abuse are valid.
37
38 Then various references are put there.
39 A. Yes.
40
41 Q. Mr Spinks, I'd like to deal with some of the figures
42 that you raised earlier. In that regard, I have some
43 documents to show you. I'll just explain what this bundle
44 of documents is, and I'll tender it in due course. The
45 first document is a "Summary of Watchtower Australia Case
46 File Analysis"; in other words, this is the staff of the
47 Royal Commission assisting me - it's their final version of

1 the summary after the correspondence, which then follows
2 that, had passed between the Royal Commission and the
3 lawyers representing Watchtower Australia. So this is the
4 position we've landed up with on the figures. To deal with
5 a couple of the figures you raised, you said, as
6 I understood it - I'm reading from the transcript -
7 page 15663 - you said earlier:
8
9 ... almost 400 of those 1,000 cases, over
10 65 years, have had the intervention of the
11 authorities ...
12
13 Now, that, as I understand it, will be a reference - if you
14 have a look - the first letter behind the summary is of
15 16 July 2015; do you see that?
16 A. Yes.
17
18 Q. Then the second letter is 20 July 2015; do you see
19 that?
20 A. Yes.
21
22 Q. If you go to page 9 of that letter, so it's a letter
23 from Milton Bray & Associates representing Jehovah's
24 Witnesses in Australia to the Royal Commission, and in
25 particular in paragraph 10. You'll see that it is said
26 there:
27
28 My client is unable to provide any
29 assurances as to the accuracy or
30 completeness of the number (161) that you
31 indicate have been convicted of a child
32 sexual abuse offence. Nevertheless, by
33 searching key words (ie police, child
34 services, authorities, charge, court,
35 welfare etc) in the Case Files and upon
36 careful review of the information contained
37 therein, my client was able to establish
38 that 383 alleged perpetrators have been
39 dealt with by either the police or secular
40 authorities in the respective States or
41 Territories in which they reside.
42
43 Not that I'm quibbling about the difference of 17, but just
44 so that I understand, is this the figure you're really
45 referring to, the 383?
46 A. Yes. I don't know that I actually knew the exact
47 figure. I think, as you're aware, I came from hospital to

1 be at the process. I haven't been involved in any of this
2 correspondence, but the figure that was given to me was
3 somewhat under 400, so I'm certain that would be the case.
4
5 Q. All right. I didn't know that you had not been
6 involved in this correspondence or in looking at these
7 figures. Perhaps it is the case that I should ask someone
8 else about them; would that be right?
9 A. I want to be helpful. I unfortunately wasn't
10 available. I understood - I was informed that these
11 figures were presented a week or so before the commencement
12 of the Royal Commission. I think as you're aware I was in
13 hospital for the week, so I got a few informal figures that
14 I can't verify, I don't know what they are based on, and so
15 I can't really comment on that.
16
17 Q. Just in relation to the other figures you gave,
18 though, you said that only two elders and four ministerial
19 servants have committed child sexual abuse in the period in
20 the last 10 years; is that right?
21 A. That's - that's what I was informed.
22
23 Q. So that is to say that there are reports of incidents
24 in that period of 10 years amounting to two elders and four
25 ministerial servants having committed child sexual abuse;
26 is that right?
27 A. Again, what I'm reading, if you're pointing to table 3
28 on page 5 - what I'm reading is a heading that says,
29 "Number of alleged incidents over the past 10 years", so
30 beyond that, I'm not certain. That would seem to me to
31 make reference to incidents of the past 10 years. Beyond
32 that, I'm not certain.
33
34 Q. Yes, all right. That's fine. I just wanted to
35 clarify that. So that's not the number of the reports.
36 There have been 289 reports in the last 10 years. Of
37 those, most of them relate to incidents that occurred in an
38 earlier period - do you accept that?
39 A. We're not comparing the two elders - the 280, or
40 whatever it was, that's total reports. I'm sure that's
41 right. I'm not certain.
42
43 Q. I'm just clarifying what it is that you were saying.
44 Your evidence was that 199 of the 1,006 cases related to
45 individuals who were not Jehovah's Witnesses at the time.
46 In fact, the position is that they were not Jehovah's
47 Witnesses at the time of the first report, but they were

1 subsequently, and in many of those cases, there may have
2 been subsequent reports of subsequent allegations?
3 A. I'm a certain that a good percentage of those, if
4 those are people - again, I'm only being cooperative and
5 helpful in saying this - I'm certain that a good percentage
6 of those would have went on to be Jehovah's Witnesses.
7 I think the issue was that they were people at the time who
8 weren't Jehovah's Witnesses. What you say is probably
9 true.
10
11 Q. At the time of the first report in relation to them?
12 A. I don't know the figures on it. But I have no reason
13 to question what you're saying.
14
15 Q. Mr Spinks, you also furnished a second statement dated
16 24 July 2015. Do you have that statement?
17
18 THE CHAIR: I think we should mark these documents.
19
20 MR STEWART: I beg your pardon. I wish to tender that.
21
22 THE CHAIR: We'll make the documents together, the summary
23 of case file analysis and those documents, together exhibit
24 29-021.
25
26 EXHIBIT #29-021 BUNDLE OF DOCUMENTS INCLUDING SUMMARY OF
27 CASE FILE ANALYSIS AND CORRESPONDENCE
28
29 MR STEWART: I'm advised that redacted copies will be
30 distributed and published. The copy that has been given to
31 your Honour and my learned friends for now is, as yet,
32 unredacted.
33
34 THE CHAIR: Very well.
35
36 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Spinks, do you have a second
37 statement, 24 July 2015?
38 A. Yes, I do.
39
40 Q. Do you confirm that that's true and correct?
41 A. I do. I wonder if I could ask, with respect, if we
42 could have a brief convenience break. Would that be
43 possible?
44
45 MR STEWART: I'm about to end, unless you need it
46 immediately.
47

1 THE WITNESS: No, thank you.
2
3 MR STEWART: Q. So you confirm this is true and correct?
4 A. Yes.
5
7
9
10 EXHIBIT #29-022 STATEMENT OF RODNEY PETER SPINKS DATED
11 24/07/2015
12
13 MR STEWART: At the witness's request, might we have a
14 short adjournment?
15
16 THE CHAIR: Yes. Let me know when we're ready.
17
18 SHORT ADJOURNMENT
19
20 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Spinks, I want to come back to one
21 last aspect about reporting before I finish, and it's this:
22 as I understand it, within your faith - and you, indeed, as
23 a person - if you saw someone breaking into your
24 neighbour's house and your neighbour was away, the first
25 thing you would do is report it to the police, wouldn't
26 you?
27 A. Yes, that's true.
28
29 Q. And if you received reliable information - and I
30 understand this is hypothetical; you've never been in this
31 position, but if you received reliable information that a
32 murder was planned, the first thing you'd do is report it
33 to the police?
34 A. That's true.
35
36 Q. But if you receive a report that a child has been
37 abused within a family, for example, in your community, you
38 don't report it to the police. Can you explain the
39 distinction? Why would that be?
40 A. I would say, again, as I read from the New South Wales
41 booklet, as I strongly believe myself, as the scriptural
42 principles highlight, we respect the rights of the
43 individuals - the family, the survivor in the case of an
44 adult, as in the two cases that are being considered - to
45 make that determination. We've not said that we've had a
46 procedure or process of automatically reporting it to the
47 authorities. The Commission has brought to our attention

1 that, in addition to mandatory reporting, there are other
2 legal implications to having that information, but
3 I understand your point. Our process has been to respect
4 the rights of the individual, or the family, and I think,
5 as has been previously quoted from 2 Corinthians 1:24, it
6 says that we are not the "masters over your faith, but we
7 are fellow workers for your joy", and Galatians 6:5 says
8 that each of us shall carry our own load of responsibility.
9 It has been mentioned that we control every aspect of
10 family life. That's not the case. We respect the rights
11 of families to make some of those decisions. But I do
12 understand your point.
13
14 Q. Is it not the case, Mr Spinks, that it is because
15 child sexual abuse is regarded as a sin within the
16 Jehovah's Witness faith - a very serious sin, I'll grant
17 you that, but it's regarded as a sin but hasn't been
18 recognised to be a crime.
19 A. That's totally wrong. Not only is that printed, that
20 we view child abuse as a sin and a crime, there is no worse
21 sin and crime than child abuse. So I understand the basis
22 for you expressing that, but that is totally the opposite
23 to the truth with Jehovah's Witnesses.
24
25 MR STEWART: No further questions.
26
27 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Spinks, help me to understand the role
28 of women in the Jehovah's Witness Church. There are some
29 fairly strict biblical New Testament injunctions about the
30 role of women. Are they adhered to by your church?
31 A. I promise to give a short answer, your Honour. We
32 have such respect for our wives and women. We see
33 scripturally that the role of teaching in the congregation
34 is for the elders, for the men. Who does the bulk of the
35 preaching work and adds some momentum - my wife, the other
36 wives.
37
38 We have a reputation for showing great respect for our
39 wives. I understand what you're saying in 21st Century
40 Australia for a religious or faith-based organisation to
41 say that the men are going to be elders - I understand the
42 challenge, but that's our scriptural stand.
43
44 Q. But are you saying to me that women can't be teachers
45 in the church?
46 A. I think - when that was discussed previously, if we're
47 saying as in a church situation, the priest at the pulpit

1 or whatever, we understand scripturally that's the role of
2 the elders. Are the women involved in teaching, in the
3 public preaching work, in the bulk of the ministry? Yes,
4 they are. They do the bulk of that work. I'm
5 not trying --
6
7 Q. Are they allowed to speak in the church?
8 A. I think anyone who has been to one of our congregation
9 meetings would say a resounding "yes" to that.
10
11 Q. Corinthians says they can't?
12 A. No, the context there is the elder/minister/priest
13 standing up and giving a Bible lecture to the
14 congregation - that's the role of the elders. The women,
15 as with all others, non-elders amongst the men, our
16 children, they all participate, question and answer,
17 commenting freely, and presentations off the platform.
18
19 Q. Look at 1 Corinthians, 14:34 and 35 for me. Have you
20 departed from the scripture in your current practice?
21 A. Not at all, your Honour. I think --
22
23 Q. Would you read them out so everyone knows what we're
24 talking about?
25 A. 34 and 35?
26
27 Q. Yes.
28 A. Very good.
29
30 Q. Well, you had better start at 33 I suppose?
31 A. Okay. It says:
32
33 For God is a God not of disorder but of
34 peace.
35 As in all the congregations of the
36 holy ones, (34) let the women keep silent
37 in the congregations, for it is not
38 permitted for them to speak. Rather, let
39 them be in subjection, as the Law also
40 says. (35) If they want to learn
41 something, let them ask their husbands at
42 home, for it is disgraceful for a woman to
43 speak in the congregation.
44
45 Q. Do you follow that injunction or not?
46 A. If we read the whole chapter - I'm not suggesting that
47 we do, but if we read the whole chapter - we'll see that
.04/08/2015 (152) 15722 R P SPINKS

1 the reason it starts with "a God not of disorder but of
2 peace", is that there was disruption in the congregation
3 and the apostle Paul, who I might mention was a single
4 lawyer, spoke in the language that we would certainly
5 phrase a little differently today. His point was it was
6 the role of the men to stand up and teach God's word from
7 the pulpit, the platform. So do we try to over-literally
8 interpret that? The gospels are full of the women doing
9 the preaching and sharing in the work in the congregation.
10 That's just a really strong statement addressing a
11 particular situation.
12
13 THE CHAIR: Q. So you don't follow that one?
14 A. We - we do not have sisters, who are elders, teaching
15 from the pulpit, but they are actively involved in speaking
16 and discussions and question and answer.
17
18 Q. Asking questions. So the answer to my question is you
19 don't follow that injunction?
20 A. Well, it's out of context, I am sorry, your Honour,
21 because the context is the priest preaching from the
22 pulpit.
23
24 MR STEWART: Q. Just on that, I think the [draft]
25 transcript may have picked up the wrong reference, is it 1
26 Corinthians 14?
27 A. I think the verses were wrong - 34 and 35.
28
29 THE CHAIR: 33, 34 and 35.
30
31 MR STEWART: Chapter 14.
32
33 THE CHAIR: Chapter 14, yes, 33, 34 and 35;
34
35 Q. I mean, there are other references in a similar vein
36 and you have probably travelled this territory many times,
37 haven't you, because, as you know, many churches don't
38 interpret and apply those injunctions in the literal way
39 that your church does?
41
42 Q. You know that?
43 A. I do.
44
45 THE CHAIR: Does anyone else have any questions?
46
47 MR TOKLEY: I do, if I may.
.04/08/2015 (152) 15723 R P SPINKS

1
2 <EXAMINATION BY MS McGLINCHEY:
3
4 MS McGLINCHEY: Q. Mr Spinks, my name is Ms McGlinchey,
5 and I represent Monty Baker in these proceedings.
6 Mr Spinks, does the Jehovah's Witness Church conduct
7 children's activities, such as Sunday School or Bible
8 classes for children - no, they don't?
9 A. No.
10
11 Q. They don't have any child activities?
12 A. No.
13
14 Q. Even creches?
15 A. No.
16
17 Q. Childcare centres, anything like that?
18 A. No.
19
20 Q. So there is no activity where children are supervised
21 alone with a Jehovah's Witness volunteer?
23
24 Q. Thank you. Mr Spinks, could you look at your first
25 statement, paragraph 66. I just want to ask you some
26 questions about the role of the regular pioneers. As
27 I understand it, from the viewpoint of a layperson, a
28 regular pioneer preaches in the community in public; is
29 that correct?
30 A. Yes, all of Jehovah's Witnesses preach publicly in the
31 community. A regular pioneer is someone who says, "I want
32 to expand my ministry", but what you say is correct, yes.
33
34 Q. So they, the regular pioneers, may preach in a public
35 place, such as a shopping centre or something like that?
36 A. Yes.
37
38 Q. They also go door to door, knocking on people's doors?
39 A. Yes.
40
41 Q. Attempting to engage people in conversation and to
42 communicate to them your understanding of the world; is
43 that correct?
44 A. Yes.
45
46 Q. Or Jehovah's understanding of the world?
47 A. Yes.
.04/08/2015 (152) 15724 R P SPINKS (Ms McGlinchey)

1
2 Q. That may also involve going back on a number of
3 occasions and taking part in family discussions and
4 returning to the home and being invited into the home; is
5 that correct?
6 A. Yes, Jehovah's Witnesses conduct Bible studies with
7 people, yes.
8
9 Q. I'm talking now, in particular, about the role of the
10 regular pioneer - not generally. Do you understand that?
11 A. Sure.
12
13 Q. As I understand it, the regular pioneer strategy, for
14 want of a better word, has been quite successful in growing
15 the flock around the world?
16 A. I don't know how to quantify that. I guess - I have
17 no reason to question it. I guess a missionary, a special
18 pioneer and a regular pioneer, by nature, is going to spend
19 more time in the preaching work.
20
21 Q. There is an application to become a regular pioneer.
22 You can't just decide yourself that you are a regular
23 pioneer; you have to go through a process, is that correct?
24 A. Yes, I mean, anyone can expand their ministry, but as
25 a regular pioneer, that's right, there is an application.
26
27 Q. That application form is attached to your first
28 statement?
30
31 Q. Could we look at that, please. Do you have that in
32 front of you?
33 A. I do.
34
35 Q. There are a number of questions that the applicant is
36 asked, that would be considered in whether they are an
37 appropriate person or not. In question 6(c) you ask:
38
39 Have you ever engaged in child sexual
40 molestation?
41
42 A. Yes.
43
44 Q. The next one, (d):
45
46 If yes, when?
47

1 Correct?
2 A. Correct.
3
4 Q. So you would be expecting a person to disclose that to
5 you and you would ask further questions such as "When"?
7
8 Q. And the next question is:
9
10 Are you now of good moral standing and
11 habits?
12
13 Is that correct?
15
16 Q. Would I be right in assuming that a person who does
17 declare that they have engaged in child sexual molestation,
18 if they are now a person of good moral standing and habits,
19 would not be necessarily prohibited from taking on the role
20 of regular pioneer; is that correct?
21 A. I'm just trying to unravel the question there, but
22 I think in question 6 there is a whole list of things, and
23 the following question, in 7, "Are you now of good moral
24 standing and habits?" - if your question is, if someone
25 says, "Yes, I engaged in sexual molestation", that - a
26 consideration would then be given as to whether they would
27 be allowed to regular pioneer. That's if they honestly
28 answer the question, of course.
29
30 Q. Of course. We're only dealing with if they say "Yes".
31 So answering "Yes" to that question would not prohibit you
32 from taking part in being a regular pioneer?
33 A. The short answer is, yes, it would. The longer answer
34 is, depending on the circumstances, as we've openly
35 provided information. So perhaps if it was decades ago -
36 I don't want to say anything to minimise or compare the
37 nature of offences, but we deal with situations where
38 perhaps a very immature 22-year-old is involved with a
39 mature 16-year-old, they might even end up marrying or
40 whatever, but there are situations where, by definition,
41 it's child sexual molestation. We don't want to condone a
42 child abuser by allowing them to - as the Organised to
43 Accomplish God's Will book says, they should be exemplary
44 and known to be exemplary.
45
46 Q. If a person says "Yes", but they also say they are now
47 of good moral standing and habits, what further inquiries

1 do you make?
2 A. The elders are instructed - there is a letter, by the
3 way, it's in the submission or in the tender documents,
4 I believe it's July 2014, thereabouts, that actually sets
5 out the process. So the elders would then get all the
6 details of that and write to the branch office. So it
7 would be held up at that point. As soon as the -
8 remembering that this is the document that's given to the
9 applicant.
10
11 Q. Yes.
12 A. As soon as that person puts "Yes" to question (c),
13 yes, the application is held up, and then we'd start that
14 process of discussing with the branch office what details
15 are known about that.
16
17 Q. Are there a set of guidelines that you would use in
18 assessing that, or would it just be the judgment of the
19 elders?
20 A. No, they'd contact the branch office. So the full
21 details are provided to the branch office. The principles
22 of the S-66 guidelines that have been just looked at
23 before, and the Bible principles - the same is applied in
24 this situation.
25
26 Q. Are there any external checks that you would
27 undertake. By "external", I mean, for example, a police
28 records check - would you seek one of those?
29 A. I think as our documents show, where - a Working With
30 Children Check is required for Ministers; I think there are
31 about 7,000 now. But for a regular pioneer, we have no
32 requirement at this stage that that's the case.
33
34 Q. Can I just get you to address your mind to a situation
35 which I'm suggesting of a person who has said "Yes" to that
36 question that they have engaged in child sexual
37 molestation; they are also saying that they are now of good
38 moral standing and habits; and I understand that there is a
39 process with head office. But would you, in that
40 circumstance, seek any external tests for that, such as a
41 criminal records history?
42 A. I think we've --
43
44 Q. Is the answer no?
45 A. The answer is no.
46
47 Q. All right. In that circumstance, would you require a

1 person to provide a Working With Children Check?
2 A. That has not been the case.
3
4 Q. So the answer is no?
5 A. Correct.
6
7 Q. Are there any criminal matters which, simply by having
8 a record of that criminal matter, such as rape, that would,
9 in every case, exclude you from being accredited as a
10 regular pioneer?
11 A. Could you repeat that again, please?
12
13 Q. Are there any offences, such as rape, that would, in
14 every case, exclude you from taking up a position as a
15 regular pioneer?
16 A. I think for me to give a - you've asked an absolute
17 question there.
18
19 Q. I have.
20 A. So my answer is, for the reasons I explained earlier,
21 I don't think I could say absolutely that 20, 30, 40 years
22 down the track, on some specific situation - the question
23 is too absolute and hypothetical, so I can't answer in the
24 positive.
25
26 Q. So the answer is either no, or you don't know?
27 A. I think the answer is I'm not suggesting - you asked
28 the question and I've not answered in the affirmative.
29 I think if we had specific circumstances - the short answer
30 is, no, there is no absolute, if that's the answer you're
31 looking for.
32
33 Q. All right. Does the church undergo any kind of risk
34 assessment process where you look at the activities you're
35 involved in and apply - a process by which you assess both
36 the risk to your own people and the risk to the community
37 that your own people may present to them, such as being
38 present in their homes?
39 A. If you're asking about have we engaged or done an
40 external risk assessment, I don't know.
41
42 Q. Do you recognise that it may, in some circumstances,
43 be a risk to the public, sending out people into people's
44 homes who may have previous criminal histories - for
45 violent offences, say?
46 A. I think that's a valid question that applies across
47 the community in every walk of life.

1
2 Q. Mr Spinks, I'm not asking you about across the
3 community; I'm asking you about Jehovah's Witness
4 practices?
5 A. Again, your question - your question is fairly
6 sweeping and I think it does apply to the broad community.
7 Are you saying is there a risk in any case of somebody who
8 has committed a sin or a crime in their past being some
9 risk to the public? I'd have to say absolutely, yes - with
10 Jehovah's Witnesses or any other organisation or
11 individual.
12
13 Q. All right. Could I ask you to look at paragraph 73 of
14 your first statement, about elders. Mr Spinks, you set out
15 in that statement a number of considerations and
16 characteristics of a person - of a man - before they can
17 become an elder. I think number 6 is "presiding over his
18 own household in a fine manner". That comes from
19 Timothy 3:2, but it's not a complete stating of what
20 Timothy says on that point, is it?
21 A. Can I read it in context?
22
23 Q. Yes, of course.
24 A. So it's an open expression in the middle of a series
25 of verses. What was your question?
26
27 Q. Timothy 2 says, in describing the characteristics of
28 an overseer or an elder "a man presiding over his own
29 household in a fine manner", as you've stated, and then
30 there is a comma and it says:
31
32 ... having his children in subjection with
33 all seriousness.
34
35 What does that mean to you?
36 A. What does having your children in subjection mean?
37
38 Q. To you?
39 A. I would suggest exactly as it says. I don't think any
40 caring parent would see it otherwise - that children are
41 subject to the care and authority of their parents.
42 I wouldn't imagine than any of us, as kind, loving parents,
43 would see it any other way.
44
45 Q. It doesn't say "kind, loving parents" - it says
46 "having children under the subjection of the father".
47 That's a very strong word?

1 A. I think it's out of context, because if you read on
2 to verse 5, it makes the application of it, where it says -
3 and don't miss the word in the middle of it
4
5 (for if any man does not know how to
6 preside over his own household, how will he
7 care for the congregation of God?)
8
9 The point is, if a man has unruly children who don't obey
10 the parents' instructions, "Don't cross the road", "Don't
11 take drugs", then if a man does not have the capacity to
12 have his own family in a loving setting, then how can he -
13 how can he do that for the congregation? So I personally
14 would just be a little cautious about reading into that a
15 manner or - that's just totally not in harmony with the
16 scripture. For myself, I would say that.
17
18 Q. To me - and correct me if I'm wrong - the word
19 "subjection" implies power and control, perhaps excessive
20 power and control.
21 A. Well, I don't know what sort of family I think you're
22 referring to there, but that's certainly not the case in my
23 family. I like to think that my son has turned out to be a
24 beautiful adult - he was subject to me when I told him
25 "Don't take drugs and don't get mixed up in the wrong
26 crowd." If that's subjection, I'll accept it and be happy
27 to continue.
28
29 Q. Well, [BCG] has given evidence about being under the
30 excessive control and power of her father, who was an
31 elder.
32 A. Again, you probably need to be cautious to make sure
33 that we stick with the facts. He wasn't an elder, so if
34 you could be cautious with that.
35
36 Q. I'm sorry, if that's correct?
37 A. Apology accepted.
38
39 Q. He was a ministerial --
40 A. Thank you. In addition, if anybody in this
41 Commission, or anybody of the thousands in Australia that
42 are listening in and think that [BCG]'s father was anything
43 but a tyrant, some horrific - some horrific recollections
44 that she makes have nothing to do with all the kindly
45 families in the broader community. He treated her in a
46 diabolical manner, and - no excuse for what he did. I'm
47 just grateful that he ultimately felt the consequences of

1 that, and what [BCG] says, she has every right to say, and
2 we have no question over that.
3
4 Q. Would you agree - if this is within your knowledge -
5 that the idea that children should be under the subjection
6 of their fathers is, in the wider community, a very
7 old-fashioned concept?
8 A. I'm shocked to hear you say it, is all I can say, and
9 I apologise. I'm shocked to hear you say it, because
10 I don't think there would be a parent - and I have two
11 beautiful grandchildren who I would take the same approach
12 with, and I love them to pieces - would expect that you're
13 going to let your child run on the street because you don't
14 have that measure of authority, until they become of an age
15 where they can make good moral decisions. So if your
16 suggestion is that parents should have no authority in
17 relation to their children --
18
19 Q. I think you know I'm not making that suggestion.
20 A. I'm struggling with the word "subjection" being
21 misapplied.
22
23 Q. You are biblical literalists, and that's what is in
24 the Bible. It doesn't say "loving authority", it doesn't
25 say "care". It says "subjection". The point that I'm
26 trying to make - and I'll get to it a little bit quicker -
27 is: do you think that by following biblical structures
28 such as that, that perhaps children would not feel able to
29 make complaints about their fathers if their father is the
30 source of abuse, or to make complaints generally?
31 A. I think, with respect - please don't think I'm
32 contending with you; you're expressing viewpoints and I'm
33 expressing mine back.
34
35 Q. No, I'm asking you a question.
36 A. It's such a broad, sweeping, ill-informed comment.
37 That what you're doing is taking a tyrant of a man, who has
38 been to prison, that we won't let back into our
39 congregation, who mistreated his daughter, and insinuating
40 that loving --
41
42 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Spinks, I think the question is being
43 put to you generally, not specifically. We had this
44 difficulty before. Can you answer it in the general, which
45 is what was put to you, rightly or wrongly, is that by
46 using the word "subjection" and creating a relationship of
47 subjection there is a real risk that a child will feel

1 unable to complain about the actions of their father.
2 I have to tell you that I can understand the proposition.
3 Is there an answer to it?
4 A. Again, your Honour, I just invite anyone to visit our
5 families. I can say no more than that - just meet the
6 families, see Jehovah's Witnesses. That's not the way -
7 was [BCG]'s father - are some fathers like that way in the
8 community generally? Absolutely, and I loathe it. But
9 Jehovah's Witnesses love their children, support them, care
10 for them. I just - I understand the point, and if parents
11 are authoritarian with their children, or subject their
12 children to unloving conduct, then I reject that and
13 I loathe it.
14
15 MS McGLINCHEY: Nothing further. Thank you.
16
17 THE CHAIR: Anyone else?
18
19 MS GALLAGHER: I have a few questions.
20
21 <EXAMINATION BY MS GALLAGHER:
22
23 MS GALLAGHER: Q. Mr Spinks, my name is Gallagher and
24 I represent [BCB]. Are you aware of [BCB]'s experience
25 with Jehovah's Witnesses?
26 A. Yes, I heard her testimony.
27
28 Q. You would know, wouldn't you, that she was involved in
29 a situation where the abuser was brought to her home with
30 two elders?
31 A. Mmm.
32
33 Q. Of course, that is something, are you saying now,
34 would probably not occur?
35 A. I'm certain it wouldn't. The fact that she was
36 22 years of age is irrelevant. I think it was an
37 inappropriate setting, yes.
38
39 Q. Did you watch her evidence, or listen to her evidence?
40 A. Yes, I listened to it.
41
42 Q. So you're aware that she and her husband, who was
43 fairly young at the time, both handed themselves over to
44 the elders, in the sense of trusting them with the process?
45 A. Yes, I understand that.
46
47 Q. And the process - and this is unsatisfactory, I think
.04/08/2015 (152) 15732 R P SPINKS (Ms Gallagher)

1 you'd agree - was not explained to her or her husband?
2 A. I understand that. I have no reason to question what
3 she said. I accept what she said.
4
5 Q. Of course, that's an unsatisfactory turn of events for
6 them, in the sense that the process of the inquiry, the
7 investigation wasn't explained?
8 A. If, certainly, that's her recollection, I have no
9 reason to question it, and it wasn't a good setting.
10
11 Q. No. So you agree it's unsatisfactory?
12 A. That was at the time, absolutely.
13
14 Q. As it stands now, just as practicalities, if a young
15 child comes forward, or there is complaint from a young
16 child, of course they would not face their abuser - is that
17 so?
19
20 Q. So there's a statement, or the allegation would be put
21 in writing in some way; is that right?
22 A. That can be the case, yes.
23
24 Q. Would that allegation be taken by an elder?
25 A. It can be the parents. I think there are several
26 examples of that in the case files that you may have read.
27
28 Q. No, I haven't.
29 A. Sorry, it's in the case files.
30
31 Q. So what if a parent were an alleged abuser, what would
32 be the situation?
33 A. Well, then, it would need to be the guardian/parent,
34 or who ever the child had come to, to seek support.
35
36 Q. So not an elder?
37 A. I think we've made it clear that the statement can be
38 taken by two Witnesses. Elders are involved in the
39 process, we've made that clear. Who actually is the best
40 person - and, again, I think you'll find in the case files
41 there are some examples where parents have provided that.
42
43 Q. I'm just envisaging a situation where a child may
44 still be embarrassed in relaying detail about sexual
45 assaults to them, and may minimise the abuse because of
46 that embarrassment. That's a possibility, isn't it?
47 A. Yes, it is.

1
2 Q. It's the case, isn't it, as Mr Stewart was asking,
3 that if one repents one's conduct if one is an abuser, then
4 the punishment is reproved - is that correct?
5 A. That's extremely simplified, but if the individual was
6 genuinely repentant - and my experience has been that that
7 would generally relate to historical cases - it would be
8 very difficult for anybody to conclude that somebody who
9 had recently abused a child - it would take an enormous
10 convincing that that person - that their repentance could
11 be commensurate with the degree of deviation.
12
13 Q. Yes, but the current process lends itself, doesn't it,
14 to the possibility of the abuse being minimised by the
15 person who is alleging, because of the way the statement is
16 taken - that's a possibility, isn't it?
17 A. Certainly that's a possibility.
18
19 Q. And that, because of the lesser punishment handed out
20 for somebody who repents, then they may indeed confess to
21 harm that they know to be inaccurately conveyed?
22 A. I think I followed you through there. Look,
23 everything you're saying is just plain commonsense.
24 I agree with it.
25
26 Q. Certainly, there is an inducement to confess to
27 wrongdoing, isn't there, in the sense of the punishment is
28 less; one isn't disfellowed?
29 A. Disfellowshipped.
30
31 Q. Disfellowshipped?
32 A. Again, each situation would be different, but can
33 I suggest that we've seen situations where people don't
34 tell the truth. It happens in all walks of life, and
35 there's no question that that's happened amongst Jehovah's
36 Witnesses. So if somebody doesn't tell the truth, if
37 somebody deceives and covers up what they are, what you say
38 is that that can impact on the outcome with Jehovah's
39 Witnesses as it can with any judiciary.
40
41 Q. If you might address yourself to my question: the
42 prospect of lesser punishment, if you like, acts as an
43 inducement to confess to wrongdoing - do you agree that
44 that's a possibility?
45 A. So you're suggesting that somebody could pretend to be
46 confessing and repentant to try and not be
47 disfellowshipped, is that a possibility? You'd have to say

1 yes.
2
3 Q. Just as to another practicality, if an allegation of
4 wrongdoing - sexual misconduct in relation to a child were
5 to come to your knowledge and the investigative procedure
6 within the church wasn't embarked upon, but the police were
7 called straight away --
8 A. Yes.
9
10 Q. -- the investigative procedure within the church would
11 halt at that time; is that so?
12 A. Yes, and the documents would show that. Yes, that is
13 the case.
14
15 Q. And the elder, if it is an elder, would be stood down,
16 waiting for the outcome of the police inquiry; is that
17 right?
18 A. He's deleted as an elder.
19
20 Q. Pending the outcome?
21 A. No, he's deleted as an elder. So what you're saying
22 there is if we have an investigation where there's evidence
23 or confession, or whatever, we hold up any further
24 involvement with the individual, at the request of the
25 police, we've had experience with that. We respect their
26 role and we step back. But he would be automatically
27 deleted and announced initially.
28
29 Q. But that's not a permanent deletion; is that so?
30 A. No, that's a permanent deletion.
31
32 Q. Is that the same as disfellowshipped?
33 A. No, no. So I think we're again - with total respect
34 for everything that's happened, I think we call it
35 deletion, the church may call it, if it happens, defrocking
36 or laicising or whatever, but where an elder or ministerial
37 servant is involved in child abuse offences, they are
38 immediately defrocked, deleted. But the judicial process
39 of disfellowshipping the person, expelling them, would hold
40 up - we don't want to interfere with the police
41 investigation.
42
43 Q. Mr Spinks, I'm talking about before the church has
44 conducted any investigation. If the church did not conduct
45 an investigation itself, and just immediately called the
46 police, would that person still be deleted?
47 A. I think we'd need to - as you would appreciate, we'd

1 need to verify that there actually is an allegation. But
2 I think that would be such a rare situation where the
3 police are dealing with a child abuse allegation and we
4 don't immediately delete the person. And the reasons are
5 this: remember, we're not talking about the paid clergy
6 and pensions and all those sorts of things; we're talking
7 about a volunteer local minister, who should not be an
8 elder until the whole matter is resolved and he can be
9 irreprehensible again, if it is proved to be a false
10 allegation, which would rarely be the case.
11
12 Q. Do you agree it would be best practice, where an
13 allegation is made of child sexual abuse, for the phone to
14 be picked up and the police called and the person deleted
15 until the process has taken its course outside the church?
16 A. I think even the police or the authorities would have
17 a little issue with what you're suggesting there - before
18 an allegation is even established, that an announcement or
19 a deletion is going to take place, but certainly, I think
20 we're probably actually covering the same point from a
21 different perspective. We're not going to leave an elder
22 as an elder where there is a matter involving child abuse.
23
24 Q. Where you say the police would have difficulties in
25 proceeding where an allegation hasn't been established,
26 ultimately, of course, it might become a matter for a jury
27 to determine whether a matter has been established.
28 A. Mmm.
29
30 Q. Do you understand that proposition?
31 A. The person would be immediately deleted. When the
32 police have evidence - whether it fits in with our rules of
33 evidence or otherwise, if an individual is dealt with by
34 the police, he would be immediately deleted as an elder.
35 I may have misunderstood where you're heading with that.
36
37 Q. So it would take, perhaps, the person being charged
38 for the deletion to occur, or --
39 A. Well, again, I need to know the specifics. I don't
40 know of a situation where the police have dealt with
41 somebody for child abuse and we haven't deleted them as an
42 elder.
43
44 Q. In relation to prevention within the church, I take it
45 that every Jehovah's Witness would be aware and live by -
46 certainly would be aware of the two-witness rule; is that a
47 fair assumption?

1 A. I think anybody that reads the Bible or reads our
2 publications associates with Jehovah's Witnesses would be
3 aware - Jehovah's Witnesses know their Bibles pretty well,
4 but whether every person that comes to a Kingdom Hall,
5 I can't comment on that.
6
7 Q. Of course, you'd agree that sexual assaults, given the
8 nature of the offending, would occur just with two people
9 present; do you agree with that proposition?
10 A. I think we've been there. Absolutely.
11
12 Q. So that creates the perfect protection for an
13 offender - do you agree with that proposition?
14 A. It's a broad, sweeping statement, but I think
15 I covered that in saying that we don't have an expectation.
16 It would be naive. We don't have an expectation that there
17 are going to be two witnesses to a child abuse or sexual
18 assault, and I think, as I've stepped out, we understand
19 that the two-witness Bible requirement relates to just one
20 specific step. I don't want to digress. The October 2012
21 letter sets it out in detail in paragraph 11 of the
22 process. Even where the allegation is only one witness,
23 the elders take precautions and there are warnings given
24 so --
25
26 Q. Yes. I think it's noted:
27
28 However, even though the elders are not
29 authorised to take congregation action
30 where there is only one witness, the elders
31 should remain vigilant with regard to the
32 conduct and activity of the accused.
33
34 But I'm talking about prevention, I'm talking about moving
35 forward in the sense that the two-witness rule would
36 effectively create a shield for an offender who is part of
37 the church who knows, "I can do what I want, it's not going
38 to be proved without two witnesses." Do you agree that
39 that is something that might go on in the mind of an
40 offender?
41 A. I can't speak for what goes on in the mind of an
42 offender but --
43
44 Q. If you could take yourself there --
45 A. I'd rather not. But you're hypothesising, and I agree
46 with the hypothesis.
47

1 Q. I think you indicate at page 15708 in answer to a
2 question posed by counsel assisting at about line 16 - and
3 this was just in regards to telling parents that they have
4 an absolute right to go to authorities if they want to.
5 You understand that in [BCB]'s case, don't you, that she
6 wasn't told by the elders that she could go to the police -
7 are you aware of that?
8 A. Well, I can't --
9
10 Q. Can I make you aware of that? Do you accept that that
11 was her situation?
12 A. 23 years ago or whatever, I think that's been
13 established that that was her testimony. I don't question
14 that.
15
16 Q. The situation is now, is it, if you could clarify:
17 are victims actually told that they have an absolute right,
18 or do you just leave it to them to work out in accordance
19 with Galatians? Forgive me if I am pronouncing it
20 incorrectly.
21 A. I'm just not sure - again, I'm happy to answer the
22 question again, but I think --
23
24 Q. I'll withdraw it, I'm sorry. Galatians says, doesn't
25 it, that basically one must bear one's own load - is that
26 correct?
27 A. Again, I explained that, that has nothing to do with
28 not telling the individual that they have every right to go
29 to the police. That has everything to do, as I've
30 mentioned --
31
32 Q. What is church policy, if I might inquire?
33 A. Would I be permitted just to finish that sentence? If
34 not --
35
36 Q. I don't want to waste your time, or indeed that of the
37 Commission. If I might clarify my question. I just want
38 to know what the church policy is now.
39 A. I'm happy to repeat it again.
40
41 Q. Right.
42 A. In every allegation of child abuse - I'd open it and
43 read it again, but I think the Commissioner might get
44 frustrated with me - but in every allegation of child
45 abuse, the elders are informed, reminded, as they've got
46 written there, to make sure that the survivor or victim,
47 victim's family, are told that they have the absolute right

1 to deal with it with the authorities and that the elders
2 will support them in that. So we have repeatedly said
3 that.
4
5 Q. Certainly. And that's at a time when the elders may
6 indeed have established, to their own satisfaction, that
7 they believe the allegation?
8 A. Look, again, for the sake of the Commission, I'm sorry
9 to repeat myself, but chapter 12 of the Elders' Handbook,
10 if you recall, specifically says at the time they first
11 hear of the allegation. So there may be no evidence, it
12 may be hearsay. The first thing that they do is contact
13 the branch office, and they are given that advice and the
14 elders relay that advice.
15
16 Q. His Honour touched upon this, as to knowledge and/or
17 belief as to whether or not a crime has been committed.
18 Are you aware of the gravity of the criminal sanction if
19 one has a knowledge or a belief about a crime having been
20 committed and one doesn't go to the authorities? I'm
21 talking about the elders.
22 A. I think the Commissioner - his Honour did an
23 outstanding job of making it very clear to me, and I've
24 acknowledged the fact that while that is a relatively new
25 understanding to me, I don't claim to understand the law,
26 what I've recognised and humbly accepted is that every
27 individual in New South Wales - and that's something that's
28 going to face elders and our branch office more than every
29 individual - that there is a law there that has a bearing,
30 and I understand that.
31
32 MS GALLAGHER: Thank you, your Honour.
33
34 THE CHAIR: Q. Did you hear the evidence of Mr Davies
35 from Queensland?
36 A. I did, most of it, your Honour, yes.
37
38 Q. Did you hear his concerns about your processes and the
39 risk to prosecution?
40 A. I did. I heard what he said. Yes.
41
42 Q. If someone is accused of a crime - it may be sexual
43 abuse or indeed any other crime - which comes before the
44 elders, that accusation comes before the elders, is the
45 person accused required to answer to the elders?
46 A. The elders would never - I may have just missed the
47 first part, but the elders would never - or the policy or

1 procedure is that they would always follow up an
2 allegation.
3
4 Q. I understand that, but is the accused required to
5 answer to the elders - answer their questions?
6 A. I would say in the congregation setting the answer is
7 yes. Then, if the individual failed to do that, it would
8 be difficult for me to understand how he would continue in
9 the congregation, or that the parents or victim wouldn't be
10 encouraged to deal with the matter through another course.
11
12 Q. So, in order to, as it were, protect him or herself
13 within the setting of the church, the person would be
14 required to answer the question of the elders; is that
15 right?
16 A. I think the clear Proverbs 28 verse 13 says confess
17 your sins. Is there a scriptural obligation for them to
18 confess their sins? Could they refuse to do that? I guess
19 the answer would be yes.
20
21 Q. What about not confessing your sins but articulating
22 your defence; would you have to do that?
23 A. The accused?
24
25 Q. Yes.
26 A. Yes. If there was - if there was an allegation
27 against an individual and he refused to answer that
28 allegation, the individual would be disfellowshipped from
29 the congregation ultimately, because again, as the charge
30 of brazen loose conduct is an absolute disregard for the
31 authority and standards, so he would be disfellowshipped if
32 he refused.
33
34 Q. It's probably murky territory for you, but do you
35 understand where we've stepped into now in terms of the
36 conflict or potential conflict between your processes and
37 the civil law?
38 A. Yes, I do understand the reasoning and
39 I'm appreciative of it. I acknowledge what you're saying.
40
41 Q. What's the answer?
42 A. I - well, I'm looking - I think we're looking forward
43 to the recommendations of the Commission. We're favourable
44 to mandatory reporting and we're favourable to documenting
45 and addressing our policies wherever we can. That's a
46 pretty sweeping statement but, as I said, we are motivated
47 to do what we can within the scriptures to make sure that

1 we make whatever changes are needed, your Honour.
2
3 THE CHAIR: You gentlemen will be able to help us on that
4 question, too. Mr Tokley?
5
6 <EXAMINATION BY MR TOKLEY:
7
8 MR TOKLEY: Q. I have just one topic I wish to have some
9 re-examination on. I'll only be a couple of minutes,
10 I think. Mr Spinks, my name is Mr Tokley, as you know.
11 I represent the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of
12 Australia as well of three other persons, including
13 yourself, before this Commission. You gave some evidence
14 earlier today about persons who are members of the
15 Jehovah's Witness faith, including psychiatrists,
16 psychologists, therapists and welfare workers. Do you
17 remember that answer?
18 A. Yes.
19
20 Q. Are policemen and women also members of the Jehovah's
21 Witness faith?
22 A. Yes, there are Jehovah's Witnesses in all - various
23 aspects of the police force, yes.
24
25 Q. Do you, in the service department, deal with members
26 of the police force as part of your work?
27 A. Yes. We have a good rapport with the police for
28 matters in both directions. Without digressing, we've had
29 extensive dealings with the police in regard to the murder
30 of the High Court judges [sic] and the bombing of the
31 Kingdom Hall. So up until 8 o'clock this morning, we have
32 a good relationship with the police force. I had a meeting
33 earlier this morning.
34
35 Q. I take it there is no policy or scriptural reference
36 which requires that the service department or, indeed, any
37 other Jehovah's Witness not cooperate with the police?
38 A. It's exactly the opposite. If I can just be permitted
39 just for one moment to show - because I feel that it's not
40 been clear - it's been referred to but --
41
42 MR TOKLEY: Does your Honour have any objection to
43 Mr Spinks referring to the --
44
45 Q. I take it that it's the Bible you're referring to?
46 A. Yes, just a verse from the Bible.
47
.04/08/2015 (152) 15741 R P SPINKS (Mr Tokley)

1 THE CHAIR: Q. We're about to embark upon a complicated
2 question, but go ahead.
3 A. I'll make it brief.
4
5 Q. You'll run into the problem of, if the law is a
6 problem and the police are trying to enforce the law, it's
7 a problem for Jehovah's Witnesses. That's the problem you
8 will run into.
9 A. I think this says the opposite, your Honour, if I
10 could be permitted to read it.
11
12 Q. You said what I just said before lunch, but anyway.
13 A. Romans, chapter 13, if I could just be indulged to
14 read the verses, because this is our absolute conviction.
15 It says:
16
17 Let every person be in subjection to the
18 superior authorities, for there is no
19 authority except by God; the existing
20 authorities stand placed in their relative
21 positions by God. Therefore, who ever
22 opposes the authority has taken a stand
23 against the arrangement of God; those who
24 have taken a stand against it will bring
25 judgment against themselves ...
26
27 Verse 4 says:
28
29 ... for it is God's minister to you for
30 your good. But if you are doing what is
31 bad, be in fear, for it is not without
32 purpose that it bears the sword. It is
33 God's minister, an avenger to express wrath
34 against the one practising what is bad.
35
36 So Jehovah's Witnesses have absolute regard for the law in
37 these areas. We want to be law abiding. If, as has been
38 raised, there are areas of our processes that are not in
39 harmony with the law in this matter, we will change them.
40 We will make the adjustment. We will continue to cooperate
41 with the police. We love the police. We want to cooperate
42 with the police and if there are laws that require us, we
43 will change our arrangements to conform - to support the
44 police.
45
46 THE CHAIR: Q. Mr Spinks, it's a complicated question.
47 Before lunch you rightly pointed out that the Jehovah's

1 Witnesses did not comply with the Nazi obligations, and
2 that has occurred or is occurring throughout the world.
3 You can't literally apply that Bible passage to all
4 circumstances, can you?
5 A. I read before Acts 5:29 that talks about obeying God
6 as ruler rather than man. If a government, as the Nazis
7 did or as South Korea does, says I have to go and kill
8 people, then I'll default to God's law and I'll go to
9 prison for the consequences.
10
11 When the Australian law says, "You report every case
12 of child abuse, regardless of the wishes of the victim",
13 Jehovah's Witnesses will fully comply with it. There is no
14 question about us obeying the law.
15
16 Q. I understand that, but you have to make a judgment is
17 the point, don't you? As a Jehovah's Witness you have to
18 make a judgment?
19 A. Not with regard to the law in relation to things that
20 don't conflict with Bible principles, because reporting a
21 child abuse at any level does not conflict with Bible
22 principles, and we would happily comply.
23
24 MR TOKLEY: Q. I take it from what you've said in answer
25 to his Honour's questions that you draw the distinction
26 between those legal requirements of a government, which are
27 regarded as being in conflict with the scriptures, which
28 you will not observe - and that's why you gave the examples
29 of Nazi Germany and Korea; correct?
30 A. Yes, that's correct.
31
32 Q. And those legal requirements which are in harmony with
33 the scriptures, which Jehovah's Witnesses will comply with?
34 A. Absolutely.
35
36 Q. And that's the distinction that you seek to draw?
38
39 MR TOKLEY: Thank you. Thank you, your Honour, I have no
40 more questions.
41
42 MS DAVID: Your Honour, I did have a question, but I note
43 the time.
44
45 THE CHAIR: No, you ask your question.
46
47

1 <EXAMINATION BY MS DAVID:
2
3 MS DAVID: I have three, but I'll try to limit it, given
4 the time.
5
6 Q. For the record, my name is Ms David and I represent
7 [BCG]. It's on this point of cooperation, and this is with
8 the other - counsellors, psychologists and persons who
9 would assist victims. I just want to be clear that it is
10 not just in circumstances where the victim or the parents
11 of a victim raise that they want to go to the authorities
12 that you will advise them that it's their right to do so.
13 Is it the case that you positively tell them that there are
14 a variety of options and authorities that they may wish to
15 speak to? Do you positively counsel them in that regard?
16 A. Again, I can't speak in the absolute, but my
17 understanding would be that in every case we positively go
18 to the parents and say, "If you choose to, you'll have our
19 full support." Do we go and say, "You must go to the
20 police"? We don't do that.
21
22 Q. I'm really asking you if there is somewhere in between
23 there. It just concerns me, with respect, some of the
24 language that you have used - that you will cooperate; you
25 know, you respect their right if that's what they want to
26 do. Do you tell them that that is an option that is
27 available to them?
28 A. In every situation, to my knowledge, we do.
29
30 Q. And that is what you counsel the elders?
32
33 Q. And that is a new practice?
34 A. Why do you say that?
35
36 Q. I represent [BCG].
37 A. Oh so did the elders do that --
38
39 Q. No, in fact, she has made a statement that she was
40 instructed to the contrary - when she raised it some years
41 later with the elders, she was, in fact, advised that she
42 would be disfellowshipped if she did, and other matters.
43 I guess what I'm concerned with is that victims and their
44 parents or guardians are aware not only that they have that
45 right, but of persons who they might go to?
46 A. I think I've answered that question. Did that happen
47 24 years ago? I have no intention of disrespecting [BCG]'s
.04/08/2015 (152) 15744 R P SPINKS (Ms David)

1 recollection.
2
3 Q. If I could seek the Commission's indulgence for a
4 minute, just in relation to the issue of support - because
5 what concerns me is that in your statement, and I'm not
6 going to go to each paragraph, but on a number of occasions
7 you have said that you take steps, you advise the elders to
8 protect and support the victim. Again, I come back to
9 [BCG]. It is plainly clear from her statement that she did
10 not feel supported and she did not feel protected through
11 that process. Do you agree with that, from having heard
12 her evidence?
13 A. I do, I agree that that is what her evidence was,
14 absolutely, I heard it, yes.
15
16 Q. And you heard from the elders that they believed that
17 they gave her support?
18 A. I heard that, too.
19
20 Q. There is a clear disconnect there, isn't there?
21 A. There are two different recollections.
22
23 Q. No. What I want to suggest to you is that it's not a
24 difference in recollection. There is a clear disconnect,
25 because while a well-meaning elder might believe that he
26 has provided support, what it really highlights is that
27 they are completely inexperienced and unable to provide the
28 sort of support that a victim of child abuse needs? Isn't
29 that what that indicates?
30 A. I think that's the longest question I've heard all
31 day.
32
33 Q. All right.
34 A. If I can, I think what you're saying is if I had the
35 power to be able to go back 24, 25 years --
36
37 Q. No.
38
39 THE CHAIR: Q. No, no, Mr Spinks.
40 A. I'm sorry.
41
42 Q. What's being put to you is that this is not a question
43 of recollection. It's the fact that the report from the
44 survivor, as to the way she felt, which is her own truthful
45 account --
46 A. Yes.
47

1 Q. -- is something which the elders obviously did not
2 understand or appreciate, and that may be because of the
3 limitations that old men, like me --
4 A. And me.
5
6 Q. -- might have in dealing with intimate allegations
7 from a young woman about what has happened to them. Do you
8 understand the point?
9 A. I do, and I accept that.
10
11 Q. Well, accepting it is one thing, but then what is
12 built into your process, if you accept it, is the risk, in
13 every case when we are talking about abuse of this nature,
14 that the survivor will feel unsupported and, indeed, may
15 well be traumatised by the process. You understand?
16 A. I do.
17
18 Q. And that's a very serious position for the Jehovah's
19 Witnesses to be in, and a matter of concern to the
20 Commission. Do you understand?
21 A. I do understand.
22
23 MS DAVID: Q. The case of [BCG] highlights that there
24 are gross inadequacies in the way that the Jehovah's
25 Witness congregation deals with these matters,
26 notwithstanding their good intentions. I'm not suggesting
27 that. I'm just saying that clearly, from [BCG]'s point of
28 view as an example - I'm sure representing many other
29 victims - change needs to occur to ensure that there is a
30 comprehensive regime in place to look out for her, not that
31 the elders don't have that capacity? Do you agree with
32 that?
33 A. Again, it was such a long question. I understand -
34 I understand the criticism and I think, again, I would say
35 I do understand what you're saying.
36
37 Q. And that is an area that you need to look at seriously
38 within your processes, to ensure that you can properly
39 support and protect a victim such as [BCG]?
40 A. And continually do so - continually reevaluate and
41 accept those observations.
42
43 Q. And to accept those observations - precisely.
44 A. Yes, I agree.
45
46 MS DAVID: Thank you.
47

1 MR STEWART: Your Honour, there is one matter I should put
2 to Mr Spinks briefly.
3
5
6 MR STEWART: Q. Mr Spinks, it is just in relation to
7 your evidence in the last short while. You said that
8 elders are informed to make sure that the survivor or
9 victim's family are told that they have the absolute right
10 to deal with it with the authorities. If I can take you to
11 your Shepherd the Flock handbook, tab 120, page 131, you
12 explained earlier, looking at paragraphs 18 and 19, from
13 here is what you explain, the generic advice you give, and
14 it's based on what is written here. You'll see in
15 paragraph 19, just below the bold, it says:
16
17 If you are asked, make it clear that
18 whether to report the matter to the
19 authorities or not is a personal decision.
20
21 I suggest to you that that's where the truth lies: the
22 truth, in fact, is that you tell your elders, "If you are
23 asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to
24 the authorities or not is a personal decision", and that
25 it's not something that you tell them in every case. It's
26 not something that the elders are instructed to tell the
27 families in every case, that it's their absolute right to
28 deal with the authorities. Do you accept that?
29 A. No.
30
31 THE CHAIR: Q. Is that another document that needs to
32 change, then?
33 A. Yes. Earlier, I think, I recounted under oath what we
34 do and what we say, and have acknowledged that we certainly
35 need to put these references together and document what is
36 actually done, and I apologise that that's not the case.
37
38 THE CHAIR: Very well, thank you for your evidence. You
39 are excused.
40
41 <THE WITNESS WITHDREW
42
43 THE CHAIR: We'll adjourn until 10am in the morning.
44
45 AT 4.06PM THE COMMISSION WAS ADJOURNED
46 TO WEDNESDAY, 5 AUGUST 2015 AT 10AM
47

# 13 [2] - 15740:16, 1:24 [1] - 15721:5 15659:44 43 [1] - 15647:17
15742:13 28 [4] - 15670:24, 46 [3] - 15651:16,
#29-018 [1] - 15642:4 131 [5] - 15661:31, 2 15670:35, 15700:34, 15652:1, 15708:2
#29-019 [1] - 15654:18 15682:34, 15682:42, 15740:16 49 [1] - 15709:24
#29-020 [1] - 15702:13 15691:36, 15747:11 2 [7] - 15671:2, 280 [1] - 15718:39
#29-021 [1] - 15719:26 132 [1] - 15682:44 15701:21, 15702:19, 289 [1] - 15718:36 5
#29-022 [1] - 15720:10 14 [5] - 15642:41, 15702:21, 15704:22, 29 [1] - 15640:22
15707:43, 15723:26, 15721:5, 15729:27 29-018 [1] - 15642:2 5 [7] - 15698:4,
2" [1] - 15702:24 15707:3, 15707:4,
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$10 [1] - 15655:10 15 [1] - 15643:26 15717:18, 15728:21 29-021 [1] - 15719:24 15730:2, 15747:46
150 [1] - 15642:45 2002 [9] - 15644:4, 29-022 [1] - 15720:8 55 [1] - 15673:16
0 152 [1] - 15640:23 15647:18, 15648:29, 56 [1] - 15673:18
15670:35, 15672:9, 5:29 [2] - 15700:28,
15663 [1] - 15717:7 3
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16 [2] - 15717:15, 15672:29, 15672:37 3 [5] - 15645:35,
1 15738:2 2003 [5] - 15645:29, 15652:27, 15652:37, 6
16-year-old [1] - 15646:4, 15649:38, 15693:18, 15718:27
1 [13] - 15644:4, 15726:39 15652:7, 15652:15 3,800 [1] - 15679:40 6 [6] - 15641:3,
15648:29, 15672:20, 161 [1] - 15717:30 2005 [6] - 15642:41, 30 [5] - 15670:19, 15649:4, 15649:29,
15682:13, 15682:17, 17 [2] - 15640:27, 15642:42, 15651:21, 15670:24, 15671:24, 15716:25, 15726:22,
15683:45, 15684:13, 15651:28, 15672:12, 15672:31, 15728:21 15729:17
15717:43
15698:4, 15707:3, 15682:12 316 [1] - 15666:47 6(c [1] - 15725:37
18 [7] - 15658:40,
15707:4, 15712:24, 2006 [1] - 15651:17 32 [1] - 15672:47 65 [4] - 15643:8,
15658:46, 15661:36,
15722:19, 15723:25 2007 [1] - 15655:14 33 [3] - 15722:30, 15663:25, 15663:33,
15682:45, 15682:47,
1,000 [5] - 15663:15, 2010 [3] - 15672:16, 15723:29, 15723:33 15717:10
15691:37, 15747:12
15663:25, 15663:33, 15682:13, 15695:23 337A [2] - 15687:20, 66 [1] - 15724:25
19 [4] - 15642:12,
15663:40, 15717:9 2012 [9] - 15672:20, 15687:21 6:5 [1] - 15721:7
15712:28, 15747:12,
1,006 [3] - 15643:6, 15682:13, 15682:17, 34 [5] - 15722:25,
15747:15
15643:25, 15718:44
1965 [1] - 15655:18 15682:37, 15683:16, 15722:36, 15723:27, 7
10 [13] - 15641:26, 15691:16, 15695:25, 15723:29, 15723:33
1973 [1] - 15642:20
15654:4, 15656:19, 15705:44, 15737:20 35 [8] - 15642:20, 7 [2] - 15693:36,
1975 [1] - 15687:42
15664:9, 15664:13, 2013 [2] - 15682:13, 15696:24, 15722:19, 15726:23
1978 [1] - 15655:39
15664:14, 15664:15, 15683:16 15722:25, 15722:40, 7,000 [1] - 15727:31
1979 [1] - 15642:23
15717:25, 15718:20, 2014 [1] - 15727:4 15723:27, 15723:29, 72 [1] - 15712:1
1980s [2] - 15655:32,
15718:24, 15718:29, 2015 [8] - 15640:31, 15723:33 73 [1] - 15729:13
15683:30
15718:31, 15718:36 15641:26, 15654:4, 350 [2] - 15656:13,
1987 [2] - 15655:35,
10.05am [1] -
15655:44 15717:15, 15717:18, 15657:11 8
15641:17 15719:16, 15719:37, 383 [2] - 15717:38,
1988 [1] - 15649:3
10.35am [1] - 15747:46 15717:45 8 [1] - 15741:31
1989 [2] - 15644:42,
15653:42 21st [3] - 15699:46, 39 [1] - 15712:2 80 [1] - 15711:9
15646:20
10/07/2015 [2] - 15707:7, 15721:39 3:2 [1] - 15729:19 82 [1] - 15716:25
199 [3] - 15663:40,
15642:5, 15654:19 22 [1] - 15732:36 84 [1] - 15707:42
15663:42, 15718:44
100 [2] - 15642:37, 22-year-old [1] -
1990 [3] - 15655:39, 4
15715:31
15655:46, 15656:1 15726:38 9
105 [1] - 15670:39 23 [3] - 15645:29, 4 [5] - 15640:31,
1990s [1] - 15683:30 9 [2] - 15707:41,
10AM [1] - 15747:46 15647:18, 15738:12 15656:19, 15673:12,
1991 [2] - 15642:42, 15717:22
10am [2] - 15640:31, 239 [1] - 15696:9 15702:20, 15742:27
15687:17 90 [2] - 15693:17,
15747:43 24 [8] - 15649:38, 4.06PM [1] - 15747:45
1992 [1] - 15644:43 15693:18
11 [2] - 15646:4, 15680:17, 15695:4, 4.1 [1] - 15643:1
1993 [2] - 15658:46, 91 [1] - 15713:40
15737:21 15712:29, 15719:16, 40 [5] - 15643:47,
15716:27 94 [1] - 15713:40
12 [2] - 15641:39, 15719:37, 15744:47, 15648:26, 15648:27,
1993" [1] - 15658:40
15739:9 15745:35 15655:23, 15728:21
1995 [4] - 15683:45,
120 [9] - 15642:45,
15684:13, 15695:6,
24/07/2015 [1] - 400 [6] - 15656:13, A
15661:27, 15673:15, 15720:11 15657:11, 15663:25,
15705:10 abeyance [1] -
15682:41, 15691:35, 241 [1] - 15716:26 15663:28, 15717:9,
1998 [6] - 15687:21, 15705:38
15693:17, 15712:2, 25 [4] - 15673:24, 15718:3
15687:26, 15696:32, abiding [1] - 15742:37
15713:40, 15747:11 15695:5, 15712:35, 41 [2] - 15642:8,
15701:17, 15702:31, able [20] - 15647:2,
124 [1] - 15682:33 15745:35 15645:27
15705:6 15658:21, 15676:25,
126 [1] - 15707:23 26 [2] - 15658:36, 42 [1] - 15646:2
1999 [1] - 15702:32
.04/08/2015 (152) 1
15677:36, 15678:10, 15695:3, 15697:4, 15646:44, 15677:24, 15665:15, 15671:47, 15693:13, 15697:29,
15680:10, 15681:21, 15698:1, 15698:15, 15679:44, 15685:33, 15673:22, 15688:3, 15723:10, 15740:45
15684:2, 15685:1, 15700:15, 15705:13, 15730:37, 15739:26 15697:14, 15711:46, adds [1] - 15721:35
15687:36, 15691:12, 15707:33, 15707:46, accepting [2] - 15740:39 adhered [1] -
15700:43, 15701:18, 15708:5, 15708:10, 15680:39, 15746:11 acknowledged [7] - 15721:30
15705:23, 15708:37, 15710:41, 15710:45, access [1] - 15685:6 15665:10, 15665:13, adherence [1] -
15714:2, 15717:37, 15716:31, 15716:36, accommodated [2] - 15665:18, 15684:31, 15686:13
15731:28, 15741:3, 15717:32, 15718:19, 15656:15, 15656:17 15711:30, 15739:24, adherent [1] - 15681:8
15745:35 15718:25, 15721:15, accommodation [1] - 15747:34 adherents [1] -
Aboriginal [1] - 15721:20, 15721:21, 15654:41 act [11] - 15668:16, 15697:41
15699:41 15731:30, 15733:45, Accomplish [1] - 15706:13, 15706:21, adhering [1] -
absence [2] - 15734:14, 15735:37, 15726:43 15708:29, 15708:37, 15685:36
15705:36, 15706:12 15736:3, 15736:13, accordance [2] - 15710:30, 15711:32, adjacent [1] -
absolute [16] - 15736:22, 15736:41, 15693:8, 15738:18 15711:41, 15711:44, 15647:20
15662:10, 15662:31, 15737:17, 15738:42, according [2] - 15713:1, 15713:5 adjourn [1] - 15747:43
15671:11, 15709:3, 15738:45, 15739:43, 15656:7, 15664:9 Act [1] - 15668:24 adjournment [3] -
15728:16, 15728:23, 15743:12, 15743:21, account [2] - acted [1] - 15670:15 15676:3, 15705:23,
15728:30, 15738:4, 15745:28, 15746:13 15676:41, 15745:45 acting [1] - 15676:17 15720:14
15738:17, 15738:47, abused [12] - accredited [1] - action [10] - 15647:14, adjudication [1] -
15740:30, 15742:14, 15646:44, 15677:10, 15728:9 15650:20, 15650:26, 15664:37
15742:36, 15744:16, 15677:19, 15677:21, accumulated [1] - 15705:36, 15708:47, adjust [6] - 15689:37,
15747:9, 15747:27 15679:19, 15679:42, 15715:21 15711:14, 15712:21, 15691:22, 15692:23,
absolutely [19] - 15703:27, 15703:29, accuracy [2] - 15712:44, 15737:29 15699:7, 15699:38,
15647:27, 15655:29, 15704:1, 15714:23, 15664:10, 15717:29 actions [3] - 15714:46
15665:7, 15674:12, 15720:37, 15734:9 accurate [1] - 15648:41, 15649:30, adjusting [1] -
15684:43, 15685:39, abuser [23] - 15675:38 15732:1 15691:30
15686:43, 15689:8, 15668:13, 15680:26, accusation [5] - actively [1] - 15723:15 adjustment [2] -
15696:41, 15700:19, 15685:43, 15686:8, 15649:9, 15706:41, activities [3] - 15689:3, 15742:40
15708:42, 15715:32, 15686:19, 15686:24, 15712:3, 15712:10, 15724:7, 15724:11, administration [1] -
15728:21, 15729:9, 15686:33, 15686:39, 15739:44 15728:34 15676:23
15732:8, 15733:12, 15687:6, 15696:47, accused [34] - activity [2] - 15724:20, admission [1] -
15737:10, 15743:34, 15697:5, 15697:32, 15694:5, 15694:8, 15737:32 15649:35
15745:14 15704:28, 15704:33, 15694:17, 15694:22, Acts [2] - 15700:28, admit [2] - 15704:24,
absolutes [1] - 15704:34, 15714:25, 15694:24, 15694:25, 15743:5 15704:27
15685:4 15714:31, 15715:2, 15694:30, 15694:35, acts [1] - 15734:42 admitted [1] -
ABUSE [1] - 15640:18 15726:42, 15732:29, 15694:43, 15695:8, adaptability [1] - 15714:38
abuse [83] - 15643:3, 15733:16, 15733:31, 15695:10, 15701:29, 15678:27 admitting [1] -
15643:7, 15646:21, 15734:3 15701:37, 15701:39, adapted [1] - 15668:16
15646:31, 15646:37, abusers [2] - 15702:43, 15703:20, 15679:26 adopt [3] - 15691:12,
15648:18, 15650:11, 15664:32, 15714:42 15703:33, 15703:40, adapting [1] - 15692:3, 15693:15
15650:33, 15650:36, abuses [1] - 15714:13 15704:23, 15704:27, 15678:43 adopted [1] -
15651:4, 15651:9, abusing [2] - 15649:1, 15704:32, 15706:30, add [1] - 15709:5 15696:13
15652:43, 15653:14, 15650:7 15706:41, 15708:11, addition [7] - adult [4] - 15668:41,
15660:1, 15660:28, accept [27] - 15712:3, 15712:8, 15646:45, 15657:1, 15703:47, 15720:44,
15660:42, 15660:46, 15643:13, 15665:19, 15712:9, 15712:18, 15682:29, 15683:32, 15730:24
15661:45, 15662:2, 15665:37, 15669:47, 15737:32, 15739:42, 15706:19, 15721:1, adultery [1] -
15664:5, 15664:13, 15671:18, 15671:41, 15739:45, 15740:4, 15730:40 15703:19
15664:16, 15664:31, 15672:5, 15676:34, 15740:23 additional [3] - adults [1] - 15703:28
15669:6, 15671:6, 15684:36, 15684:45, accused" [1] - 15659:39, 15679:18, advice [24] -
15673:25, 15674:19, 15688:2, 15697:30, 15702:47 15683:32 15652:47, 15653:7,
15676:24, 15683:21, 15706:37, 15710:2, accuser [5] - address [3] - 15682:8, 15657:29, 15660:14,
15683:26, 15683:28, 15710:7, 15710:40, 15706:31, 15706:40, 15727:34, 15734:41 15661:2, 15661:4,
15683:40, 15683:42, 15710:45, 15716:1, 15706:43, 15708:12, addressed [9] - 15661:8, 15661:10,
15684:19, 15684:35, 15718:38, 15730:26, 15712:8 15644:9, 15660:36, 15661:15, 15661:20,
15685:7, 15685:38, 15733:3, 15738:10, accusers [3] - 15670:44, 15670:45, 15661:22, 15662:37,
15685:46, 15688:36, 15746:9, 15746:12, 15704:25, 15704:43, 15678:2, 15679:35, 15662:45, 15663:4,
15691:38, 15692:10, 15746:41, 15746:43, 15705:5 15681:37, 15681:38, 15663:6, 15668:34,
15692:20, 15693:30, 15747:28 accusing [1] - 15685:41 15669:44, 15670:1,
15693:37, 15693:42, accepted [8] - 15643:19 addressing [6] - 15670:6, 15696:38,
15693:43, 15694:16, 15646:36, 15646:43, acknowledge [7] - 15663:39, 15679:37, 15709:5, 15739:13,
.04/08/2015 (152) 2
15739:14, 15747:13 15668:12, 15668:19, alone [4] - 15648:20, 15668:5, 15682:19, appropriate [8] -
advisable [2] - 15668:40, 15668:41, 15701:29, 15702:43, 15683:23, 15686:26, 15678:30, 15685:29,
15701:28, 15702:42 15669:6, 15677:10, 15724:21 15692:33, 15694:26, 15685:42, 15689:22,
advise [5] - 15660:9, 15681:9, 15681:11, amendments [1] - 15694:44, 15695:46, 15703:15, 15703:17,
15660:24, 15669:11, 15684:2, 15684:18, 15654:7 15715:6, 15731:9, 15703:25, 15725:37
15744:12, 15745:7 15684:38, 15684:46, amounting [1] - 15747:36 appropriately [1] -
advised [3] - 15670:6, 15685:38, 15686:22, 15718:24 apologised [1] - 15700:16
15719:29, 15744:41 15686:32, 15692:9, amounts [1] - 15714:37 approval [3] -
advises [1] - 15660:21 15692:19, 15697:31, 15643:25 apology [1] - 15688:29, 15690:17,
advising [1] - 15698:14, 15703:29, ANALYSIS [1] - 15730:37 15690:18
15660:19 15704:28, 15708:34, 15719:27 apostle [1] - 15723:3 area [2] - 15700:14,
affected [1] - 15711:29, 15711:38, Analysis [1] - appear [3] - 15686:1, 15746:37
15674:19 15711:43, 15713:3, 15716:46 15688:25, 15702:36 areas [3] - 15700:14,
afford [1] - 15708:23 15713:21, 15733:20, analysis [1] - appearing [1] - 15742:37, 15742:38
age [6] - 15649:4, 15733:24, 15735:3, 15719:23 15641:4 arise [1] - 15707:22
15649:29, 15694:15, 15736:1, 15736:3, ancient [1] - 15699:27 Applewhite [4] - arm's [1] - 15669:14
15695:4, 15731:14, 15736:10, 15736:13, AND [1] - 15719:27 15673:6, 15681:26, arrangement [6] -
15732:36 15736:18, 15736:25, Angus [1] - 15640:43 15684:31, 15714:12 15699:1, 15699:22,
ago [11] - 15641:39, 15737:22, 15738:42, announced [1] - applicable [5] - 15707:7, 15709:38,
15642:20, 15647:41, 15738:44, 15739:7, 15735:27 15682:27, 15691:17, 15710:16, 15742:23
15648:17, 15655:23, 15739:11, 15740:2, announcement [1] - 15691:21, 15692:12, arrangements [2] -
15676:14, 15686:36, 15740:26, 15740:28 15736:18 15692:22 15699:34, 15742:43
15695:5, 15726:35, allegations [32] - answer [47] - applicant [2] - arrived [1] - 15659:14
15738:12, 15744:47 15643:12, 15643:18, 15648:19, 15667:11, 15725:35, 15727:9 article [1] - 15687:42
ago" [1] - 15644:47 15645:44, 15646:28, 15669:34, 15681:6, application [9] - articles [5] - 15683:28,
agree [30] - 15647:39, 15646:32, 15646:37, 15683:34, 15692:27, 15688:28, 15695:9, 15683:29, 15683:31,
15664:22, 15670:11, 15647:2, 15647:9, 15695:44, 15696:1, 15699:19, 15699:34, 15683:38, 15688:8
15674:43, 15675:7, 15650:38, 15652:42, 15698:22, 15698:27, 15725:21, 15725:25, articulating [1] -
15684:43, 15685:25, 15653:14, 15663:15, 15699:3, 15699:8, 15725:27, 15727:13, 15740:21
15685:29, 15685:47, 15663:45, 15663:46, 15701:32, 15703:3, 15730:2 Asia [1] - 15692:16
15688:27, 15695:8, 15664:1, 15664:31, 15706:14, 15710:19, applied [5] - aspect [5] - 15674:23,
15711:6, 15715:43, 15666:36, 15667:42, 15711:26, 15721:31, 15679:17, 15683:13, 15705:37, 15711:25,
15716:1, 15716:36, 15671:6, 15677:8, 15722:16, 15723:16, 15683:20, 15702:31, 15720:21, 15721:9
15731:4, 15733:1, 15680:10, 15682:9, 15723:18, 15726:28, 15727:23 aspects [7] - 15645:1,
15733:11, 15734:24, 15683:21, 15683:42, 15726:33, 15727:44, applies [5] - 15668:28, 15657:26, 15691:7,
15734:43, 15736:12, 15688:36, 15695:11, 15727:45, 15728:4, 15690:28, 15695:26, 15705:47, 15706:1,
15737:7, 15737:9, 15696:26, 15697:42, 15728:20, 15728:23, 15704:17, 15728:46 15707:15, 15741:23
15737:13, 15737:38, 15707:32, 15710:46, 15728:26, 15728:27, apply [9] - 15668:25, assault [8] - 15649:26,
15737:45, 15745:11, 15719:2, 15746:6 15728:29, 15728:30, 15668:26, 15697:25, 15664:18, 15710:43,
15745:13, 15746:31, alleged [15] - 15643:6, 15731:44, 15732:3, 15699:26, 15700:28, 15711:32, 15711:41,
15746:44 15643:12, 15643:17, 15738:1, 15738:21, 15723:38, 15728:35, 15713:1, 15713:14,
agreed [1] - 15705:18 15660:28, 15668:12, 15739:45, 15740:5, 15729:6, 15743:3 15737:18
agreement [1] - 15694:23, 15696:47, 15740:6, 15740:14, applying [1] - 15700:9 assaults [2] -
15690:7 15697:32, 15704:24, 15740:19, 15740:27, appointed [5] - 15733:45, 15737:7
ahead [4] - 15688:38, 15704:42, 15705:4, 15740:41, 15741:17, 15642:18, 15645:8, assertions [1] -
15690:31, 15712:27, 15713:5, 15717:38, 15743:24 15645:17, 15649:19, 15697:45
15742:2 15718:29, 15733:31 answered [5] - 15655:41 assess [1] - 15728:35
Allan [2] - 15641:2, alleging [1] - 15686:23, 15710:16, appreciate [12] - assessing [1] -
15641:23 15734:15 15716:10, 15728:28, 15663:9, 15668:35, 15727:18
ALLAN [2] - 15641:17, alleviating [1] - 15744:46 15685:34, 15687:32, assessment [4] -
15642:4 15677:19 answering [1] - 15692:21, 15692:33, 15713:44, 15713:45,
allegation [60] - allow [1] - 15714:25 15726:31 15694:27, 15694:32, 15728:34, 15728:40
15648:6, 15650:28, allowed [4] - answers [1] - 15698:44, 15709:40, assignment [1] -
15660:1, 15660:19, 15669:26, 15714:14, 15697:19 15735:47, 15746:2 15658:3
15660:28, 15660:37, 15722:7, 15726:27 anticipate [1] - appreciative [1] - assist [12] - 15648:40,
15661:14, 15662:2, allowing [2] - 15715:1, 15707:25 15740:39 15650:19, 15661:18,
15662:29, 15664:5, 15726:42 anyway [3] - approach [5] - 15662:6, 15662:14,
15666:3, 15666:9, almost [5] - 15663:25, 15666:24, 15681:42, 15645:8, 15649:19, 15677:19, 15677:36,
15666:37, 15667:30, 15663:28, 15691:25, 15742:12 15665:31, 15699:19, 15678:10, 15678:13,
15667:46, 15668:9, 15710:46, 15717:9 apologise [12] - 15731:11 15681:38, 15684:30,
.04/08/2015 (152) 3
15744:9 15644:4, 15676:10, 15744:14, 15747:10, ball [2] - 15687:39, become [8] -
assistance [7] - 15676:17, 15676:18, 15747:19, 15747:24, 15714:2 15644:14, 15659:47,
15669:32, 15669:33, 15676:21, 15676:34, 15747:28 baptised [3] - 15664:5, 15712:33,
15677:34, 15678:4, 15676:47, 15677:1, authority [14] - 15642:16, 15642:20, 15725:21, 15729:17,
15678:14, 15682:1, 15686:28, 15687:4, 15675:15, 15688:18, 15655:22 15731:14, 15736:26
15682:2 15688:17, 15688:20, 15688:21, 15692:23, baptismal [1] - becomes [2] -
assistant [2] - 15688:37, 15689:4, 15692:29, 15692:35, 15672:12 15666:9, 15668:19
15656:33, 15687:16 15689:8, 15689:13, 15715:28, 15729:41, based [21] - 15646:23, Beenleigh [4] -
assisting [3] - 15689:22, 15689:23, 15731:14, 15731:16, 15646:46, 15648:13, 15655:39, 15655:40,
15716:7, 15716:47, 15689:40, 15689:46, 15731:24, 15740:31, 15650:25, 15661:39, 15655:41, 15655:47
15738:2 15690:4, 15690:17, 15742:19, 15742:22 15665:37, 15683:3, beg [2] - 15682:36,
Assisting [1] - 15690:26, 15690:34, automatically [3] - 15683:6, 15683:8, 15719:20
15640:43 15691:12, 15691:17, 15710:13, 15720:46, 15691:28, 15691:35, beginning [2] -
associate [1] - 15691:20, 15691:21, 15735:26 15697:36, 15699:24, 15652:13, 15705:11
15667:13 15691:24, 15691:31, autonomy [1] - 15700:47, 15705:24, begins [1] - 15645:3
associated [1] - 15691:47, 15692:11, 15678:46 15706:2, 15707:16, behalf [1] - 15677:47
15655:17 15692:23, 15692:29, available [6] - 15711:12, 15718:14, behaviour [2] -
Associates [1] - 15692:35, 15692:38, 15641:26, 15676:20, 15721:40, 15747:14 15700:4, 15700:26
15717:23 15692:43, 15693:29, 15715:9, 15715:17, basic [2] - 15654:41, behind [1] - 15717:14
associates [3] - 15699:47, 15707:8, 15718:10, 15744:27 15661:43 belief [11] - 15664:38,
15644:39, 15664:4, 15709:42, 15716:45, avenger [1] - basis [10] - 15643:27, 15664:47, 15665:35,
15737:2 15717:3, 15717:24, 15742:33 15646:40, 15647:14, 15666:9, 15667:24,
assume [7] - 15721:40, 15730:41, average [1] - 15643:26 15651:18, 15659:36, 15667:45, 15674:11,
15659:27, 15663:16, 15741:12 avoid [2] - 15710:8, 15661:3, 15667:45, 15699:43, 15713:46,
15665:9, 15673:32, Australia" [1] - 15710:9 15686:34, 15691:25, 15739:17, 15739:19
15688:7, 15696:45, 15670:41 Awake [3] - 15687:42, 15721:21 below [1] - 15747:15
15699:11 Australian [2] - 15688:8, 15716:26 BCB] [1] - 15732:24 beneath [2] -
assumed [1] - 15692:45, 15743:11 aware [35] - 15644:14, BCB]'s [2] - 15732:24, 15701:22, 15702:19
15678:37 authorised [3] - 15645:10, 15645:13, 15738:5 benefit [1] - 15715:21
assuming [1] - 15708:28, 15708:29, 15647:29, 15648:40, BCG [9] - 15645:45, benefits [1] - 15685:8
15726:16 15737:29 15649:21, 15649:24, 15646:21, 15646:45, beside [1] - 15656:42
assumption [2] - authoritarian [1] - 15650:20, 15652:42, 15648:37, 15650:17, best [11] - 15643:1,
15678:17, 15736:47 15732:11 15659:47, 15660:22, 15730:29, 15731:1, 15674:14, 15690:43,
assurances [1] - authorities [57] - 15663:25, 15663:40, 15746:23, 15746:39 15690:47, 15692:1,
15717:29 15660:8, 15660:14, 15664:5, 15665:1, BCG] [3] - 15744:7, 15693:3, 15699:45,
assure [2] - 15678:11, 15660:20, 15660:39, 15665:21, 15674:7, 15744:36, 15745:9 15700:10, 15714:45,
15679:36 15662:3, 15662:15, 15674:20, 15686:7, BCG]'s [6] - 15643:32, 15733:39, 15736:12
AT [2] - 15747:45, 15662:17, 15662:25, 15696:44, 15704:35, 15643:34, 15730:42, better [9] - 15674:43,
15747:46 15662:30, 15663:11, 15708:46, 15712:20, 15732:7, 15744:47, 15684:2, 15684:3,
attached [3] - 15663:16, 15663:21, 15715:1, 15717:47, 15746:27 15689:6, 15695:7,
15644:22, 15655:9, 15663:23, 15663:26, 15718:12, 15732:24, BCH [15] - 15643:34, 15695:40, 15709:13,
15725:27 15663:28, 15663:29, 15732:42, 15736:45, 15643:44, 15644:39, 15722:30, 15725:14
attaches [1] - 15664:44, 15664:46, 15736:46, 15737:3, 15645:9, 15645:38, between [13] -
15707:30 15665:11, 15665:29, 15738:7, 15738:10, 15648:41, 15648:47, 15642:45, 15656:12,
attempting [1] - 15667:1, 15669:2, 15739:18, 15744:44 15649:20, 15651:26, 15656:27, 15657:31,
15724:41 15669:12, 15669:15, Azerbaijan [1] - 15651:32, 15652:7, 15668:38, 15670:5,
15669:35, 15670:32, 15700:21 15652:15, 15653:15, 15685:36, 15699:30,
attend [1] - 15677:41
15670:33, 15671:7, 15658:38, 15714:34 15700:3, 15717:2,
attender [1] - 15715:2
15671:14, 15671:31, B BCH]'s [1] - 15646:4 15740:36, 15743:26,
attention [11] -
15671:44, 15671:47, BCL [3] - 15650:7, 15744:22
15645:30, 15666:15,
15677:22, 15678:3, background [2] - 15650:11, 15651:5
15667:4, 15667:7, beyond [4] -
15709:3, 15709:15, 15648:39, 15650:19 BCL] [1] - 15649:2
15673:35, 15673:40, 15672:39, 15714:46,
15709:18, 15709:21, bad [3] - 15694:35, bear [1] - 15738:25
15675:27, 15675:45, 15718:30, 15718:31
15710:8, 15710:14, 15742:31, 15742:34 bearing [2] -
15676:15, 15690:44, Bible [44] - 15641:13,
15715:9, 15717:11, Baker [1] - 15724:5 15680:45, 15739:29
15720:47 15642:13, 15642:14,
15717:34, 15717:40, balance [1] - 15708:7 bears [1] - 15742:32
August [3] - 15640:31, 15648:4, 15653:37,
15720:47, 15736:16, balanced [1] -
15656:19, 15670:35 beautiful [2] - 15664:3, 15671:27,
15738:4, 15739:1, 15681:4
AUGUST [1] - 15730:24, 15731:11 15673:38, 15674:11,
15739:20, 15742:18, balancing [1] -
15747:46 became [2] - 15675:30, 15675:32,
15742:20, 15744:11, 15674:16
Australia [49] - 15642:16, 15655:19 15675:40, 15676:47,
.04/08/2015 (152) 4
15682:29, 15685:35, branch [60] - Brother [6] - 15678:40, 15678:44, 15721:39
15686:15, 15695:23, 15644:17, 15644:20, 15644:10, 15644:39, 15684:10, 15684:13, certain [16] -
15699:11, 15699:20, 15644:34, 15644:36, 15645:9, 15648:41, 15685:19, 15685:23, 15671:20, 15680:15,
15699:24, 15699:35, 15645:32, 15647:8, 15648:47, 15649:20 15686:29, 15689:26, 15680:16, 15680:17,
15700:5, 15700:17, 15648:20, 15650:9, brothers [2] - 15689:31, 15689:44, 15684:15, 15689:3,
15700:18, 15700:19, 15651:17, 15652:21, 15649:43, 15662:11 15691:11, 15691:37, 15689:28, 15695:47,
15700:22, 15700:27, 15655:6, 15655:13, brought [8] - 15693:10, 15697:44, 15696:10, 15718:3,
15700:36, 15709:20, 15656:5, 15656:11, 15641:32, 15667:4, 15697:47, 15698:19, 15718:30, 15718:32,
15713:9, 15722:13, 15656:39, 15657:7, 15667:6, 15673:19, 15700:2, 15703:15, 15718:41, 15719:3,
15724:7, 15725:6, 15657:11, 15659:15, 15677:23, 15690:44, 15704:4, 15704:10, 15719:5, 15732:35
15727:23, 15731:24, 15661:38, 15670:21, 15720:47, 15732:29 15704:39, 15705:44, certainly [35] -
15737:1, 15737:19, 15670:40, 15678:42, budge [2] - 15700:22, 15709:37, 15710:12, 15650:30, 15657:31,
15741:11, 15741:45, 15682:17, 15682:46, 15700:35 15710:40, 15710:45, 15657:39, 15658:12,
15741:46, 15743:3, 15683:2, 15683:8, built [1] - 15746:12 15710:47, 15711:41, 15659:7, 15659:9,
15743:20, 15743:21 15683:14, 15684:22, bulk [3] - 15721:34, 15714:1, 15714:29, 15660:31, 15660:32,
bibles [1] - 15737:3 15684:24, 15684:29, 15722:3, 15722:4 15717:35, 15718:3, 15663:11, 15665:12,
biblical [3] - 15721:29, 15684:33, 15686:6, BUNDLE [1] - 15718:7, 15719:23, 15669:25, 15671:41,
15731:23, 15731:27 15687:47, 15688:12, 15719:26 15720:43, 15721:10, 15675:38, 15679:35,
big [2] - 15642:36, 15688:17, 15688:20, bundle [2] - 15641:3, 15721:14, 15727:32, 15682:15, 15688:21,
15642:44 15688:32, 15689:17, 15716:43 15728:2, 15728:9, 15691:29, 15693:10,
bit [13] - 15650:2, 15689:23, 15689:40, burden [1] - 15677:27 15728:14, 15729:7, 15697:15, 15703:2,
15650:5, 15661:24, 15689:45, 15690:4, BY [8] - 15641:19, 15730:22, 15733:22, 15705:44, 15709:47,
15669:39, 15670:18, 15691:12, 15691:21, 15651:44, 15653:44, 15733:26, 15733:29, 15710:16, 15710:47,
15670:20, 15674:22, 15691:44, 15692:3, 15724:2, 15732:21, 15733:40, 15734:2, 15711:5, 15711:20,
15674:23, 15684:17, 15692:21, 15692:35, 15741:6, 15744:1, 15735:13, 15736:10, 15723:4, 15730:22,
15687:38, 15709:39, 15692:44, 15692:47, 15747:4 15738:5, 15743:11, 15733:8, 15734:17,
15716:33, 15731:26 15707:26, 15707:36, 15744:13, 15744:17, 15734:26, 15736:19,
bits [1] - 15650:4 15708:4, 15709:6, 15746:13, 15746:23, 15736:46, 15739:5,
15727:6, 15727:14,
C 15747:25, 15747:27,
blessing [1] - 15747:34
15673:10 15727:20, 15727:21, CA [3] - 15658:29, 15747:36 cetera [6] - 15649:6,
board [4] - 15678:2, 15739:13, 15739:28 15658:40, 15659:1 Case [2] - 15640:22, 15655:11, 15656:35,
15697:7, 15714:19, Branch [3] - 15682:14, Camira [1] - 15651:25 15716:45 15657:6, 15657:29,
15714:45 15707:25, 15707:31 cannot [1] - 15712:37 cases [20] - 15643:2, 15672:3
boards [1] - 15672:24 branch's [1] - capacity [3] - 15643:30, 15663:25, Chair [1] - 15640:37
Body [25] - 15651:29, 15692:29 15714:28, 15730:11, 15663:33, 15663:40, chair [2] - 15643:42,
15670:44, 15676:10, branches [3] - 15746:31 15667:7, 15678:47, 15647:34
15676:12, 15676:16, 15678:46, 15693:3 capture [1] - 15664:32 15686:35, 15698:6, CHAIR [72] - 15641:8,
15676:22, 15676:31, Bray [1] - 15717:23 care [5] - 15669:29, 15701:38, 15703:32, 15641:12, 15642:2,
15676:43, 15688:16, brazen [2] - 15713:7, 15697:37, 15729:41, 15704:5, 15708:7, 15647:41, 15651:38,
15688:30, 15688:38, 15740:30 15730:7, 15732:9 15708:15, 15711:1, 15653:26, 15653:36,
15688:42, 15689:11, break [2] - 15674:22, care" [1] - 15731:25 15717:9, 15718:44, 15654:16, 15663:14,
15689:14, 15689:18, 15719:42 careful [1] - 15717:36 15719:1, 15720:44, 15667:21, 15667:33,
15689:43, 15690:1, breaking [1] - 15734:7 15668:1, 15668:8,
caring [4] - 15654:28,
15690:7, 15690:18, 15720:23 15656:33, 15704:6, caution [3] - 15676:3, 15676:12,
15690:22, 15690:32, brief [2] - 15719:42, 15729:40 15673:46, 15674:32, 15677:4, 15678:17,
15690:34, 15691:19, 15742:3 carries [2] - 15664:42, 15675:15 15678:36, 15679:4,
15691:26, 15702:33 briefly [3] - 15665:33, 15664:44 cautions [2] - 15679:10, 15679:16,
bold [1] - 15747:15 15703:2, 15747:2 carry [4] - 15659:6, 15673:36, 15675:29 15679:28, 15679:39,
bombing [1] - bring [5] - 15651:47, 15682:22, 15698:31, cautious [3] - 15680:4, 15680:9,
15741:30 15677:17, 15681:11, 15721:8 15730:14, 15730:32, 15680:21, 15680:30,
book [5] - 15684:4, 15697:41, 15742:24 15730:34 15680:36, 15681:6,
CASE [1] - 15719:27
15687:20, 15687:27, bringing [1] - cavil [1] - 15680:39 15681:19, 15681:26,
case [76] - 15643:18,
15700:28, 15726:43 15694:24 ceases [2] - 15666:8, 15681:31, 15681:42,
15643:32, 15647:10,
booklet [2] - Brisbane [1] - 15641:4 15668:19 15681:46, 15682:4,
15648:6, 15653:1,
15665:29, 15720:41 broad [5] - 15697:43, cent [1] - 15715:31 15685:11, 15687:10,
15662:37, 15663:12,
books [1] - 15684:5 15710:38, 15729:6, centre [2] - 15651:8, 15687:23, 15694:20,
15665:9, 15669:39,
bottom [1] - 15647:19 15731:36, 15737:14 15724:35 15696:43, 15698:10,
15671:9, 15672:10,
bounds [1] - 15692:28 broader [1] - 15730:45 centres [1] - 15724:17 15698:30, 15700:39,
15673:7, 15674:13,
bracketed [1] - brochure [1] - Century [3] - 15701:9, 15701:47,
15675:20, 15677:22,
15703:5 15665:44 15699:46, 15707:7, 15702:11, 15702:16,
15677:28, 15678:32,
.04/08/2015 (152) 5
15702:23, 15702:28, 15652:23, 15717:34, 15727:36, 15731:13, 15697:9, 15697:42, clarify [7] - 15656:26,
15702:40, 15715:4, 15740:29 15731:47, 15733:15, 15698:31, 15715:17, 15667:40, 15692:40,
15719:18, 15719:22, charged [3] - 15733:16, 15733:34, 15721:30, 15721:45, 15711:30, 15718:35,
15719:34, 15720:8, 15645:10, 15649:21, 15733:43, 15734:9, 15721:47, 15722:7, 15738:16, 15738:37
15720:16, 15721:27, 15736:37 15735:4, 15735:37, 15723:39, 15728:33, clarifying [1] -
15723:13, 15723:29, charges [2] - 15736:3, 15736:13, 15735:6, 15735:10, 15718:43
15723:33, 15723:45, 15649:26, 15652:28 15736:22, 15736:41, 15735:35, 15735:43, clarity [1] - 15711:39
15731:42, 15732:17, check [1] - 15727:28 15737:17, 15738:42, 15735:44, 15736:15, classes [1] - 15724:8
15739:34, 15741:3, Check [2] - 15727:30, 15738:44, 15743:12, 15736:44, 15737:37, clear [34] - 15650:14,
15742:1, 15742:46, 15728:1 15743:21, 15745:28 15738:32, 15738:38, 15657:35, 15662:23,
15743:45, 15745:39, checks [1] - 15727:26 child's [1] - 15711:34 15740:13 15672:5, 15684:36,
15747:31, 15747:38, CHILD [1] - 15640:18 childcare [1] - Church [6] - 15643:7, 15688:20, 15688:43,
15747:43 child [116] - 15643:3, 15724:17 15673:8, 15683:22, 15691:47, 15692:11,
chairman [1] - 15643:7, 15646:20, Children [5] - 15689:27, 15721:28, 15698:3, 15698:22,
15646:12 15646:31, 15646:36, 15701:35, 15702:46, 15724:6 15699:6, 15699:22,
challenge [6] - 15650:8, 15660:1, 15716:30, 15727:30, church's [1] - 15699:25, 15699:29,
15665:23, 15665:43, 15660:41, 15660:46, 15728:1 15681:31 15699:31, 15699:39,
15697:12, 15697:14, 15661:45, 15662:2, children [21] - churches [4] - 15700:22, 15700:36,
15697:37, 15721:42 15662:12, 15662:36, 15662:11, 15671:35, 15666:35, 15696:46, 15705:40, 15707:3,
challenges [1] - 15662:38, 15664:5, 15683:40, 15703:27, 15716:14, 15723:37 15708:29, 15710:31,
15714:41 15664:13, 15664:16, 15703:28, 15710:4, circuit [7] - 15702:6, 15733:37, 15733:39,
challenging [1] - 15664:18, 15664:19, 15710:46, 15722:16, 15702:7, 15702:8, 15739:23, 15740:16,
15697:6 15668:38, 15668:39, 15724:8, 15724:20, 15702:33, 15703:3, 15741:40, 15744:9,
chance [1] - 15680:41 15668:40, 15668:42, 15729:32, 15729:36, 15704:39, 15705:2 15745:9, 15745:20,
change [25] - 15669:1, 15669:9, 15729:40, 15729:46, CIRCUIT [1] - 15745:24, 15747:17,
15652:25, 15676:32, 15669:19, 15669:20, 15730:9, 15731:5, 15702:13 15747:23
15676:45, 15678:18, 15669:23, 15669:30, 15731:17, 15731:28, circumstance [2] - clearance [1] -
15678:36, 15678:37, 15670:27, 15670:29, 15732:9, 15732:11, 15727:40, 15727:47 15688:38
15678:41, 15689:27, 15671:6, 15672:4, 15732:12 circumstances [20] - clearer [1] - 15684:43
15689:33, 15692:10, 15673:25, 15674:19, children's [1] - 15660:17, 15661:39, clearly [20] -
15695:30, 15699:15, 15676:24, 15683:21, 15724:7 15666:16, 15669:5, 15653:15, 15670:12,
15699:20, 15699:22, 15683:26, 15683:28, choice [1] - 15647:46 15670:23, 15671:15, 15671:45, 15672:36,
15699:32, 15699:40, 15683:39, 15683:42, choose [4] - 15698:5, 15671:20, 15671:43, 15685:26, 15687:1,
15699:41, 15705:39, 15684:19, 15684:35, 15704:9, 15704:10, 15678:28, 15683:3, 15688:14, 15688:18,
15706:3, 15714:28, 15685:6, 15688:36, 15744:18 15683:9, 15701:41, 15689:32, 15689:45,
15742:39, 15742:43, 15691:38, 15692:9, Christ [2] - 15699:29, 15708:33, 15709:1, 15690:22, 15690:35,
15746:29, 15747:32 15692:20, 15693:37, 15705:35 15713:15, 15726:34, 15695:5, 15705:10,
changeable [1] - 15693:42, 15693:43, Christ's [1] - 15690:35 15728:29, 15728:42, 15706:42, 15707:12,
15679:14 15694:16, 15695:3, Christian [9] - 15743:4, 15744:10 15710:19, 15712:43,
changed [4] - 15698:1, 15698:14, 15673:28, 15673:29, circumstantial [1] - 15714:24, 15746:27
15656:20, 15688:7, 15703:29, 15703:47, 15674:2, 15674:4, 15706:12 clergy [2] - 15663:47,
15699:31, 15701:1 15704:1, 15705:13, 15674:14, 15674:29, cite [1] - 15670:35 15736:5
changes [2] - 15707:33, 15707:45, 15699:32, 15714:27, city [1] - 15657:17 client [3] - 15676:18,
15699:20, 15741:1 15707:46, 15708:5, 15714:47 civil [6] - 15663:18, 15717:28, 15717:37
changing [2] - 15708:10, 15708:16, Christians [1] - 15680:30, 15699:28, close [2] - 15696:35,
15705:34, 15706:15 15708:20, 15708:30, 15700:8 15714:6, 15715:8, 15697:31
chapter [10] - 15708:35, 15708:36, Christopher [1] - 15740:37 closing [1] - 15710:9
15673:12, 15693:36, 15709:13, 15710:12, 15641:23 civilisation [1] - code [1] - 15699:28
15698:4, 15707:4, 15710:13, 15710:25, CHRISTOPHER [2] - 15699:27 collating [1] - 15689:5
15712:24, 15722:46, 15711:28, 15711:36, 15641:17, 15642:4 claim [4] - 15646:40, colleagues [1] -
15722:47, 15723:31, 15713:2, 15713:10, church [42] - 15643:3, 15713:17, 15716:11, 15667:44
15739:9, 15742:13 15714:24, 15714:25, 15664:30, 15664:37, 15739:25 collection [1] -
Chapter [1] - 15723:33 15714:31, 15714:42, 15665:5, 15666:2, claimed [2] - 15664:32
character [2] - 15715:1, 15717:31, 15666:30, 15673:10, 15671:46, 15710:21 combination [1] -
15694:30, 15694:34 15717:33, 15718:19, 15677:11, 15677:17, claiming [2] - 15657:44
characteristics [2] - 15718:25, 15720:36, 15677:22, 15677:23, 15652:37, 15663:10 comfort [1] - 15673:2
15729:16, 15729:27 15721:15, 15721:20, 15677:34, 15677:42, claims [3] - 15652:39, coming [4] -
charge [8] - 15645:38, 15721:21, 15724:11, 15679:19, 15681:9, 15714:3, 15716:36 15644:19, 15656:47,
15645:42, 15649:27, 15725:39, 15726:17, 15681:11, 15685:44, clarified [1] - 15657:1, 15679:42
15650:32, 15650:33, 15726:41, 15726:42, 15686:21, 15692:41, 15712:43 comma [1] - 15729:30
.04/08/2015 (152) 6
commencement [1] - 15651:17, 15652:7, complaints [3] - 15713:8, 15724:6, 15701:39, 15702:43,
15718:11 15652:22, 15652:32, 15648:18, 15731:29, 15725:6, 15732:12, 15702:47, 15703:20,
commensurate [1] - 15652:40, 15652:42, 15731:30 15734:3, 15735:44, 15703:33, 15703:40
15734:11 15653:8, 15653:21, complete [2] - 15737:32, 15740:30 confronted [1] -
comment [8] - 15678:43, 15687:47, 15683:33, 15729:19 conducted [2] - 15684:28
15674:16, 15687:45, 15688:21, 15689:17, completely [5] - 15679:40, 15735:44 confronting [1] -
15705:10, 15705:28, 15689:23, 15689:45, 15673:11, 15680:17, conference [1] - 15686:18
15707:19, 15718:15, 15690:4, 15691:21, 15702:38, 15711:33, 15677:2 confronts [1] -
15731:36, 15737:5 15692:44, 15704:26, 15745:27 confess [5] - 15685:17
commented [1] - 15704:31, 15704:43, completeness [1] - 15734:20, 15734:26, confusing [1] -
15648:24 15705:5, 15712:5, 15717:30 15734:43, 15740:16, 15695:17
commenting [1] - 15713:21 complex [1] - 15740:18 confusion [1] -
15722:17 Committees [1] - 15664:28 confessed [5] - 15693:35
comments [3] - 15707:25 complicated [2] - 15650:39, 15652:28, congregation [58] -
15650:2, 15674:6, committees [1] - 15742:1, 15742:46 15668:4, 15708:11, 15642:29, 15642:33,
15684:41 15707:26 comply [6] - 15665:42, 15716:6 15642:36, 15642:40,
COMMISSION [2] - committing [1] - 15690:19, 15743:1, confesses [1] - 15642:44, 15643:34,
15640:17, 15747:45 15687:36 15743:13, 15743:22, 15667:42 15643:35, 15644:40,
Commission [33] - Common [1] - 15743:33 confessing [3] - 15644:42, 15645:33,
15641:26, 15654:4, 15716:27 component [4] - 15668:13, 15734:46, 15648:9, 15648:11,
15663:24, 15663:40, commonly [1] - 15682:16, 15705:18, 15740:21 15649:15, 15651:25,
15664:11, 15664:12, 15658:32 15706:4, 15706:7 confession [7] - 15651:26, 15655:35,
15665:1, 15665:27, commonsense [1] - components [2] - 15667:43, 15668:21, 15655:39, 15656:32,
15671:26, 15676:15, 15734:23 15705:24, 15706:29 15705:37, 15706:12, 15657:14, 15657:18,
15676:27, 15678:14, communicate [2] - comprehensive [1] - 15710:31, 15712:18, 15659:47, 15660:19,
15678:15, 15678:33, 15690:21, 15724:42 15746:30 15735:23 15662:8, 15662:27,
15681:38, 15685:26, communication [2] - compulsion [1] - confessional [1] - 15666:45, 15667:9,
15686:3, 15687:3, 15690:3, 15690:20 15666:46 15697:9 15667:43, 15669:33,
15687:46, 15688:44, community [18] - concept [1] - 15731:7 confidence [1] - 15670:46, 15671:25,
15697:20, 15705:9, 15664:4, 15697:35, concepts [1] - 15714:15 15674:3, 15674:29,
15716:47, 15717:2, 15713:9, 15714:40, 15691:18 confident [1] - 15684:18, 15692:8,
15717:24, 15718:12, 15714:43, 15715:34, concern [9] - 15689:15 15696:35, 15698:17,
15720:47, 15730:41, 15715:36, 15715:37, 15660:32, 15662:12, confidential [4] - 15698:47, 15699:8,
15738:37, 15739:8, 15720:37, 15724:28, 15669:27, 15677:6, 15674:1, 15674:28, 15707:11, 15709:8,
15740:43, 15741:13, 15724:31, 15728:36, 15678:24, 15687:2, 15674:34, 15674:40 15709:19, 15714:26,
15746:20 15728:47, 15729:3, 15697:24, 15711:30, confiding [1] - 15714:35, 15716:11,
Commission's [2] - 15729:6, 15730:45, 15746:19 15685:8 15721:33, 15722:8,
15679:41, 15745:3 15731:6, 15732:8 concerned [5] - confirm [4] - 15722:14, 15722:43,
Commissioner [6] - commuters [1] - 15660:45, 15711:18, 15641:44, 15654:11, 15723:2, 15723:9,
15640:38, 15677:6, 15656:16 15712:44, 15713:38, 15719:40, 15720:3 15730:7, 15730:13,
15679:45, 15685:32, comparable [1] - 15744:43 confirmed [2] - 15731:39, 15737:29,
15738:43, 15739:22 15714:35 concerns [6] - 15661:4, 15668:12 15740:6, 15740:9,
Commissioner's [1] - compare [1] - 15679:34, 15685:32, conflict [14] - 15740:29, 15746:25
15684:41 15726:36 15696:43, 15739:38, 15673:37, 15675:30, congregational [1] -
commit [1] - 15687:37 comparing [1] - 15744:23, 15745:5 15675:32, 15685:35, 15669:43
committed [9] - 15718:39 conclude [1] - 15688:40, 15700:3, congregational-level
15663:19, 15664:13, comparison [1] - 15734:8 15700:17, 15700:26, [1] - 15669:43
15664:46, 15665:17, 15663:47 concluded [2] - 15700:36, 15740:36, congregations [13] -

15718:19, 15718:25, compassion [2] - 15712:40, 15712:45 15743:20, 15743:21, 15643:29, 15656:30,
15729:8, 15739:17, 15676:36, 15677:38 concludes [1] - 15743:27 15656:34, 15657:13,
15739:20 compassionate [2] - 15653:26 conform [2] - 15657:16, 15670:41,
Committee [4] - 15676:21, 15697:25 conclusion [5] - 15699:44, 15742:43 15670:42, 15670:45,
15701:23, 15702:20, competition [1] - 15647:42, 15648:3, conforms [1] - 15688:37, 15696:5,
15704:17, 15704:21 15663:35 15648:7, 15666:27, 15706:44 15707:37, 15722:35,
committee [33] - complain [1] - 15690:29 confront [16] - 15722:37
15643:43, 15645:20, 15732:1 condone [1] - 15680:26, 15685:43, connection [2] -
15645:24, 15645:38, complaining [1] - 15726:41 15686:8, 15686:24, 15644:38, 15648:42
15645:41, 15646:12, 15693:29 conduct [12] - 15686:33, 15686:39, conscience [3] -
15647:21, 15647:34, complaint [2] - 15642:13, 15709:26, 15687:6, 15687:31, 15671:36, 15672:3,
15648:18, 15650:31, 15677:23, 15733:15 15709:32, 15713:7, 15701:29, 15701:37, 15710:17
.04/08/2015 (152) 7
consciences [1] - 15710:8 convinced [1] - 15715:18, 15719:40, 15741:9
15671:34 contemplate [1] - 15642:15 15720:3, 15723:40, course [18] -
conscious [1] - 15703:47 convincing [1] - 15724:22, 15724:29, 15651:15, 15671:13,
15681:40 contemplated [1] - 15734:10 15724:32, 15724:43, 15682:33, 15686:13,
consent [2] - 15678:41 cooperate [7] - 15725:5, 15725:23, 15688:5, 15705:9,
15696:27, 15708:30 contemplates [1] - 15649:34, 15664:9, 15725:29, 15726:1, 15710:40, 15716:44,
consequence [2] - 15702:41 15679:37, 15741:37, 15726:2, 15726:6, 15726:28, 15726:30,
15669:10, 15699:20 contending [1] - 15742:40, 15742:41, 15726:13, 15726:14, 15729:23, 15732:33,
consequences [3] - 15731:32 15744:24 15726:20, 15728:5, 15733:5, 15733:16,
15665:5, 15730:47, context [11] - cooperated [1] - 15730:18, 15730:36, 15736:15, 15736:26,
15743:9 15663:46, 15664:21, 15665:11 15733:18, 15734:4, 15737:7, 15740:10
consider [1] - 15664:25, 15674:44, cooperation [1] - 15738:26, 15743:29, Court [2] - 15700:35,
15715:41 15693:42, 15699:12, 15744:7 15743:30, 15743:37, 15741:30
considerable [1] - 15722:12, 15723:20, cooperative [1] - 15744:31 court [3] - 15650:26,
15690:26 15723:21, 15729:21, 15719:4 corrections [3] - 15714:6, 15717:34
considerably [1] - 15730:1 copies [1] - 15719:29 15641:29, 15641:31, courts [5] - 15646:47,
15656:20 contexts [1] - copy [7] - 15641:25, 15641:34 15650:24, 15652:40,
considerably" [1] - 15699:15 15647:29, 15652:1, correctly [2] - 15680:30, 15706:14
15656:21 contingency [1] - 15654:3, 15661:30, 15670:11, 15689:5 cover [1] - 15655:10
consideration [3] - 15657:4 15701:15, 15719:30 correspond [1] - covered [4] -
15678:3, 15687:8, continually [2] - Corinthians [5] - 15688:41 15680:15, 15704:29,
15726:26 15746:40 15707:4, 15721:5, correspondence [13] - 15711:19, 15737:15
considerations [2] - continue [8] - 15722:11, 15722:19, 15651:22, 15651:24, covering [1] -
15681:3, 15729:15 15660:47, 15685:42, 15723:26 15657:35, 15657:37, 15736:20
considered [4] - 15707:6, 15707:9, corner [2] - 15650:38, 15658:31, 15658:33, covers [1] - 15734:37
15647:3, 15713:3, 15712:25, 15730:27, 15658:40 15658:44, 15658:45, COYNE [4] -
15720:44, 15725:36 15740:8, 15742:40 corporations [1] - 15659:2, 15661:10, 15651:42, 15651:44,
considering [1] - continued [1] - 15657:28 15717:1, 15718:2, 15651:46, 15653:24
15643:29 15652:25 corpus [2] - 15682:24, 15718:6 Coyne [1] - 15651:46
consistently [1] - continues [3] - 15687:37 CORRESPONDENC create [3] - 15679:24,
15663:8 15652:38, 15673:40, correct [86] - E [1] - 15719:27 15680:31, 15737:36
consolidated [1] - 15712:10 15641:44, 15642:9, corresponding [2] - created [2] -
15684:42 continuing [1] - 15643:36, 15645:25, 15652:21, 15689:15 15667:30, 15670:5
consolidating [1] - 15645:46 15645:44, 15646:5, corroborating [1] - creates [1] - 15737:12
15689:41 continuously [1] - 15646:13, 15648:30, 15713:1 creating [2] -
constant [1] - 15642:26 15652:17, 15652:32, corroborative [1] - 15679:18, 15731:46
15659:40 contrary [2] - 15653:4, 15654:11, 15711:24 creches [1] - 15724:14
constraints [2] - 15671:18, 15744:40 15654:38, 15654:47, counsel [3] - 15738:2, credibly [1] -
15701:5, 15715:34 control [6] - 15714:14, 15655:4, 15655:15, 15744:15, 15744:30 15708:34
construction [1] - 15714:16, 15721:9, 15659:21, 15660:11, Counsel [1] - crime [9] - 15661:46,
15657:7 15730:19, 15730:20, 15660:15, 15660:24, 15640:43 15721:18, 15721:20,
consult [1] - 15685:18 15730:30 15663:1, 15670:16, counselling [1] - 15721:21, 15729:8,
consulted [1] - controversial [1] - 15671:16, 15672:14, 15681:2 15739:17, 15739:19,
15654:33 15715:15 15672:18, 15675:4, counsellors [1] - 15739:42, 15739:43
contact [10] - convenience [1] - 15686:14, 15688:10, 15744:8 criminal [15] -
15649:39, 15649:44, 15719:42 15690:10, 15691:34, countries [8] - 15648:21, 15664:39,
15649:47, 15660:2, convenient [1] - 15695:28, 15700:18, 15689:20, 15692:17, 15665:6, 15666:10,
15671:14, 15682:17, 15676:1 15701:19, 15701:24, 15693:2, 15695:41, 15666:19, 15666:46,
15684:24, 15713:2, conventions [1] - 15701:43, 15703:7, 15695:47, 15696:6, 15667:9, 15667:17,
15727:20, 15739:12 15656:33 15704:29, 15705:33, 15696:9, 15696:13 15688:47, 15699:28,
contacted [1] - conversation [2] - 15706:23, 15706:27, countries" [1] - 15727:41, 15728:7,
15642:12 15660:29, 15724:41 15707:28, 15707:33, 15695:39 15728:8, 15728:44,
contacting [4] - conveyed [2] - 15707:34, 15707:39, country [9] - 15739:18
15670:31, 15670:32, 15704:41, 15734:21 15707:47, 15708:25, 15665:41, 15666:17, criticise [1] - 15662:28
15671:31, 15672:38 convicted [1] - 15708:39, 15710:27, 15676:37, 15685:5, criticism [1] -
contacts [1] - 15717:31 15710:34, 15710:43, 15692:12, 15693:7, 15746:34
15667:15 conviction [2] - 15712:20, 15713:24, 15695:31, 15700:25 cross [2] - 15714:14,
contained [1] - 15662:10, 15742:14 15713:28, 15713:32, couple [6] - 15643:2, 15730:10
15717:36 convictions [1] - 15713:36, 15713:42, 15672:39, 15683:47, crowd [1] - 15730:26
15663:30 15714:4, 15715:17, 15698:35, 15717:5, crystal [1] - 15714:2
contamination [1] -
.04/08/2015 (152) 8
cultural [1] - 15692:18 15683:36, 15683:39, declare [1] - 15726:17 15657:2, 15657:22, determine [7] -
culture [4] - 15684:5, 15686:17, 15692:9, dedicated [1] - 15657:23, 15657:25, 15665:28, 15665:36,
15689:7, 15699:42, 15701:14, 15713:19, 15642:16 15657:27, 15657:30, 15666:7, 15684:19,
15699:45 15716:41, 15717:4, deep [1] - 15697:19 15657:32, 15657:39, 15692:28, 15692:29,
currency [2] - 15726:37, 15739:1, deeply [1] - 15699:43 15658:4, 15658:17, 15736:27
15672:22, 15672:34 15740:10, 15741:25, default [2] - 15705:6, 15659:24, 15659:34, determined [3] -
current [17] - 15747:10, 15747:28 15743:8 15659:41, 15660:2, 15681:9, 15688:8,
15642:29, 15647:11, dealing [16] - defence [1] - 15740:22 15660:5, 15660:9, 15714:4
15654:21, 15660:27, 15645:30, 15645:45, defend [1] - 15695:10 15660:10, 15660:13, determining [1] -
15660:37, 15670:22, 15650:28, 15653:8, defensive [1] - 15660:21, 15660:24, 15666:2
15672:9, 15672:11, 15660:27, 15668:46, 15686:2 15660:27, 15662:8, developed [1] -
15683:6, 15683:25, 15670:19, 15681:4, deficiencies [1] - 15667:15, 15667:16, 15685:34
15683:30, 15683:35, 15683:39, 15696:24, 15715:31 15672:39, 15687:18, developing [1] -
15684:20, 15684:45, 15707:32, 15712:4, define [1] - 15657:24 15695:9, 15711:37, 15701:6
15685:33, 15722:20, 15712:21, 15726:30, defining [1] - 15741:25, 15741:36 development [1] -
15734:13 15736:3, 15746:6 15655:27 departments [2] - 15689:27
cut [1] - 15650:5 dealings [1] - definitely [2] - 15656:42, 15657:9 deviation [1] -
cypher [1] - 15658:10 15741:29 15653:22, 15659:41 described [4] - 15734:11
deals [7] - 15657:25, definition [1] - 15665:33, 15682:18, devout [1] - 15674:14
D 15692:19, 15693:39, 15726:40 15713:6, 15713:7 diabolical [1] -
15707:31, 15712:2, defrocked [1] - describing [1] - 15730:46
dangerous [1] - 15713:21, 15746:25 15735:38 15729:27 dictate [1] - 15671:36
15669:19 dealt [16] - 15643:2, defrocking [1] - design/build [1] - differ [1] - 15666:18
dangers [1] - 15708:8 15651:4, 15663:29, 15735:35 15657:6 differed [1] - 15692:4
date [7] - 15642:19, 15664:14, 15664:17, degree [1] - 15734:11 designating [1] - difference [4] -
15644:26, 15658:21, 15681:2, 15684:26, delete [1] - 15736:4 15659:36 15672:5, 15714:6,
15658:38, 15658:44, 15686:22, 15688:32, designation [2] - 15717:43, 15745:24
deleted [9] -
15659:16 15688:36, 15699:27, 15659:20, 15659:38 different [22] -
15735:18, 15735:21,
dated [5] - 15641:26, 15700:4, 15711:37, desire [1] - 15681:1 15654:34, 15657:16,
15735:27, 15735:38,
15644:4, 15647:18, 15717:39, 15736:33, desk [29] - 15654:28, 15658:15, 15659:37,
15735:46, 15736:14,
15654:4, 15719:15 15736:40 15654:29, 15654:31, 15659:38, 15663:17,
15736:31, 15736:34,
DATED [3] - 15642:5, dear [1] - 15644:9 15654:35, 15656:4, 15666:34, 15672:1,
15736:41
15654:18, 15720:10 decades [6] - deletion [5] - 15656:5, 15656:8, 15672:25, 15689:20,
dates [1] - 15642:39 15672:39, 15683:47, 15735:29, 15735:30, 15656:20, 15656:27, 15689:43, 15690:25,
daughter [8] - 15684:27, 15689:6, 15735:35, 15736:19, 15656:33, 15657:41, 15692:30, 15692:46,
15646:29, 15647:9, 15715:22, 15726:35 15736:38 15658:15, 15658:26, 15693:7, 15693:13,
15650:7, 15650:23, deceives [1] - demand [1] - 15658:33, 15658:44, 15693:16, 15696:9,
15650:34, 15650:36, 15734:37 15697:47 15659:2, 15659:41, 15702:38, 15734:32,
15650:43, 15731:39 decide [1] - 15725:22 demands [1] - 15660:18, 15661:2, 15736:21, 15745:21
daughters [15] - decided [3] - 15648:8, 15677:23 15662:5, 15666:44, differently [8] -
15644:47, 15645:11, 15652:22, 15693:29 15666:47, 15667:8, 15641:37, 15685:23,
demonstrating [1] -
15646:21, 15646:32, deciding [1] - 15667:44, 15669:11, 15686:5, 15693:9,
15692:8
15646:37, 15646:45, 15693:14 15669:44, 15670:2, 15693:15, 15698:13,
denied [1] - 15652:28
15647:3, 15647:7, decision [17] - 15707:36, 15714:20 15699:24, 15723:5
denies [2] - 15646:31,
15648:19, 15649:2, 15647:21, 15650:26, Desks [2] - 15682:14, difficult [10] - 15648:2,
15712:3
15649:22, 15649:28, 15662:25, 15662:28, 15707:31 15658:24, 15678:33,
deny [2] - 15652:38,
15652:37, 15652:44, 15664:45, 15673:32, desks [1] - 15654:33 15684:19, 15690:36,
15712:10
15714:38 15673:44, 15674:13, despite [3] - 15707:6, 15695:45, 15700:9,
denying [1] -
David [1] - 15744:6 15674:27, 15674:36, 15710:19, 15714:26 15703:38, 15734:8,
15650:39
DAVID [6] - 15651:40, 15674:39, 15675:2, detail [3] - 15641:42, 15740:8
depart [2] - 15707:17,
15743:42, 15744:1, 15675:6, 15698:43, 15733:44, 15737:21 difficulties [1] -
15711:13
15744:3, 15746:23, 15699:4, 15747:19, detailed [1] - 15736:24
departed [2] -
15746:46 15747:24 15661:43 difficulty [4] -
15705:32, 15722:20
Davies [1] - 15739:34 decision" [1] - details [7] - 15661:15, 15677:39, 15684:17,
department [43] -
days [2] - 15662:42, 15674:42 15661:17, 15694:37, 15687:35, 15731:44
15644:23, 15644:33,
15665:25 decision-making [2] - 15697:4, 15727:6, digitally [1] - 15658:7
15644:34, 15645:29,
de [1] - 15699:29 15698:43, 15699:4 15727:14, 15727:21 digress [1] - 15737:20
15645:36, 15649:44,
deal [19] - 15656:32, decisions [4] - determination [4] - digressing [1] -
15654:28, 15656:27,
15657:30, 15660:39, 15674:7, 15715:20, 15677:7, 15677:9, 15741:28
15656:28, 15656:37,
15678:33, 15679:30, 15721:11, 15731:15 15685:44, 15720:45 dilemma [1] -
15656:38, 15656:47,
.04/08/2015 (152) 9
15715:29 15681:14, 15685:11, 15673:28, 15686:4 15669:36, 15672:4, effectively [2] -
diminish [2] - 15703:3, 15704:40, distributed [1] - 15675:45, 15678:30, 15656:29, 15737:36
15663:31, 15663:41 15705:1 15719:30 15686:5, 15686:7, efficiently [1] -
dining [1] - 15657:4 discussions [4] - distributing [1] - 15686:10, 15689:12, 15686:38
direct [4] - 15666:15, 15684:40, 15687:47, 15658:4 15690:43, 15691:25, eight [1] - 15656:6
15679:39, 15693:43, 15723:16, 15725:3 divert [1] - 15705:25 15693:14, 15704:23, either [9] - 15662:27,
15711:23 disfellowed [1] - divorcing [1] - 15705:43, 15708:44, 15663:43, 15678:37,
directed [8] - 15652:4, 15734:28 15650:47 15709:40, 15709:42, 15703:6, 15703:40,
15670:7, 15678:19, disfellowship [3] - document [38] - 15710:19, 15710:21, 15704:6, 15704:12,
15678:37, 15686:31, 15647:13, 15647:46, 15647:17, 15647:26, 15716:18, 15728:39, 15717:39, 15728:26
15686:33, 15694:43, 15652:23 15647:30, 15647:35, 15747:36 elder [59] - 15642:18,
15710:18 disfellowshipped [21] 15647:43, 15648:23, door [5] - 15642:12, 15642:26, 15642:32,
direction [13] - - 15644:41, 15659:14, 15684:2, 15676:46, 15724:38 15642:39, 15643:33,
15648:13, 15650:14, 15646:26, 15647:5, 15685:1, 15685:9, door-to-door [1] - 15644:8, 15655:35,
15661:38, 15669:44, 15649:41, 15650:6, 15687:2, 15687:10, 15642:12 15655:40, 15655:41,
15670:1, 15670:9, 15652:7, 15652:15, 15688:2, 15688:23, doors [1] - 15724:38 15658:42, 15658:44,
15683:2, 15683:8, 15658:39, 15711:27, 15689:4, 15689:7, down [14] - 15649:11, 15659:3, 15659:8,
15683:33, 15691:45, 15711:42, 15713:4, 15691:36, 15693:17, 15657:17, 15670:20, 15659:10, 15659:40,
15691:47, 15692:4, 15713:7, 15714:35, 15695:6, 15695:16, 15670:24, 15674:22, 15662:6, 15666:8,
15696:38 15714:37, 15734:29, 15695:21, 15695:30, 15679:13, 15681:15, 15667:14, 15669:42,
directions [1] - 15734:31, 15734:47, 15696:32, 15701:15, 15692:31, 15707:44, 15669:43, 15673:32,
15741:28 15735:32, 15740:28, 15701:16, 15701:17, 15710:9, 15711:36, 15684:17, 15691:42,
directly [3] - 15740:31, 15744:42 15701:41, 15701:45, 15716:33, 15728:22, 15692:1, 15692:8,
15665:14, 15683:23, disfellowshipping 15701:47, 15702:4, 15735:15 15692:19, 15696:46,
15712:32 [10] - 15643:44, 15702:11, 15702:23, Dr [4] - 15673:6, 15698:12, 15698:14,
disagree [2] - 15646:4, 15646:16, 15709:41, 15716:45, 15681:26, 15684:31, 15698:16, 15698:18,
15647:38, 15673:11 15646:19, 15647:4, 15727:8, 15747:31, 15714:12 15698:25, 15701:38,
disagreed [1] - 15658:37, 15712:47, 15747:35 draft [1] - 15723:24 15703:32, 15703:36,
15690:12 15713:31, 15713:35, documenting [1] - draw [6] - 15672:29, 15703:41, 15704:13,
disappoints [1] - 15735:39 15740:44 15673:34, 15675:27, 15709:32, 15709:45,
15664:8 disgraceful [1] - documents [43] - 15675:45, 15743:25, 15710:3, 15729:17,
disassociation [1] - 15722:42 15641:32, 15652:33, 15743:36 15729:28, 15730:31,
15658:37 disguise [1] - 15657:37, 15658:29, draws [1] - 15673:40 15730:33, 15733:24,
disclose [3] - 15664:22 15672:21, 15672:41, drew [1] - 15648:6 15733:36, 15735:15,
15652:47, 15680:19, dishonest [1] - 15682:11, 15682:15, drugs [2] - 15730:11, 15735:18, 15735:21,
15726:4 15650:8 15682:23, 15682:24, 15730:25 15735:36, 15736:8,
disconnect [2] - dishonesty [3] - 15682:27, 15683:6, due [2] - 15651:15, 15736:21, 15736:22,
15745:20, 15745:24 15650:32, 15651:8, 15683:12, 15683:13, 15716:44 15736:34, 15736:42,
discretion [10] - 15651:11 15683:15, 15683:17, dull [1] - 15641:40 15745:25
15670:8, 15674:4, disorder [2] - 15683:18, 15683:24, during [4] - 15674:3, elder/minister/priest
15674:36, 15674:42, 15722:33, 15723:1 15683:25, 15683:35, 15674:30, 15700:30, [1] - 15722:12
15675:10, 15675:11, disregard [1] - 15683:44, 15684:11, 15704:17 elders [172] - 15645:3,
15675:12, 15675:13, 15740:30 15684:15, 15685:22, duties [2] - 15656:22, 15645:8, 15645:12,
15675:15, 15683:13 disrespectful [1] - 15686:42, 15687:5, 15656:30 15645:16, 15649:14,
discretion" [1] - 15715:27 15687:8, 15687:37, 15649:19, 15649:23,
15688:6, 15688:18, 15649:35, 15649:40,
15674:39 disrespecting [1] - E
discretionary [1] - 15744:47 15688:41, 15690:40, 15652:45, 15659:47,
15682:26 disruption [1] - 15691:9, 15691:14, early [1] - 15655:31 15660:19, 15660:25,
discuss [3] - 15723:2 15692:30, 15716:43, earnest [1] - 15678:3 15660:26, 15660:44,
15673:35, 15675:27, distance [1] - 15716:44, 15719:18, easily [2] - 15669:8, 15661:3, 15661:7,
15702:7 15657:19 15719:22, 15719:23, 15672:43 15661:11, 15661:16,
discussed [4] - distant [1] - 15672:33 15727:3, 15727:29, east [2] - 15655:39, 15661:34, 15661:42,
15697:32, 15698:34, distinction [8] - 15735:12 15655:40 15661:44, 15662:5,
15706:32, 15721:46 15656:26, 15656:28, DOCUMENTS [1] - Eastern [2] - 15662:7, 15662:8,
discussing [1] - 15668:37, 15668:43, 15719:26 15692:16, 15693:2 15662:19, 15662:28,
15727:14 15699:30, 15720:39, done [31] - 15649:36, ecclesiastical [1] - 15662:40, 15662:42,
discussion [12] - 15743:25, 15743:36 15658:8, 15660:30, 15692:37 15662:46, 15663:11,
15660:26, 15660:33, distinguishing [1] - 15660:40, 15660:45, effect [3] - 15669:22, 15663:24, 15664:13,
15663:2, 15663:9, 15657:23 15663:38, 15664:10, 15669:28, 15690:7 15664:14, 15666:45,
15664:28, 15681:7, distressed [2] - 15664:11, 15665:36, effective [1] - 15677:9 15667:1, 15667:7,
.04/08/2015 (152) 10
15667:8, 15667:42, 15744:30, 15744:37, engage [4] - European [2] - 15708:10, 15711:19,
15669:11, 15669:14, 15744:41, 15745:7, 15673:10, 15716:3, 15693:2, 15700:34 15714:6, 15716:14,
15669:26, 15669:32, 15745:16, 15746:1, 15716:7, 15724:41 evaluate [1] - 15720:37, 15727:27,
15669:33, 15669:34, 15746:31, 15747:8, engaged [7] - 15715:47 15746:28
15670:13, 15670:14, 15747:22, 15747:26 15647:25, 15656:45, evaluation [1] - examples [6] -
15670:30, 15670:42, Elders [3] - 15651:29, 15725:39, 15726:17, 15715:10 15698:20, 15703:24,
15671:5, 15671:9, 15670:44, 15702:34 15726:25, 15727:36, event [4] - 15643:4, 15704:3, 15733:26,
15671:13, 15671:21, elders' [1] - 15702:8 15728:39 15643:28, 15678:4, 15733:41, 15743:28
15671:22, 15671:30, Elders' [10] - engagement [1] - 15710:32 excellent [1] -
15671:34, 15671:37, 15661:23, 15673:13, 15689:10 events [3] - 15662:35, 15698:33
15671:39, 15671:47, 15678:45, 15680:16, engineering [1] - 15733:5 except [2] - 15704:34,
15672:2, 15672:17, 15680:18, 15682:34, 15657:5 evidence [50] - 15742:19
15672:38, 15673:2, 15687:17, 15705:7, English [1] - 15703:1 15646:43, 15653:27, exception [2] -
15673:24, 15674:6, 15713:8, 15739:9 enormous [1] - 15669:28, 15669:38, 15704:37, 15713:15
15675:20, 15678:45, ELDERS' [1] - 15734:9 15676:25, 15676:29, exceptional [2] -
15682:17, 15683:34, 15702:13 ensure [6] - 15660:41, 15676:39, 15676:42, 15705:12, 15705:13
15684:5, 15684:26, electronic [1] - 15670:29, 15678:14, 15676:43, 15677:1, exceptions [1] -
15684:27, 15684:29, 15658:1 15679:26, 15746:29, 15678:9, 15679:1, 15705:15
15685:9, 15686:31, electronically [3] - 15746:38 15681:27, 15686:19, excessive [2] -
15687:4, 15687:26, 15658:2, 15658:7 ensuring [2] - 15694:24, 15694:34, 15730:19, 15730:30
15688:19, 15689:20, elements [2] - 15665:6, 15692:44 15705:37, 15706:11, exclude [2] - 15728:9,
15692:15, 15695:26, 15700:47, 15701:4 entered [1] - 15649:25 15706:13, 15706:42, 15728:14
15696:26, 15696:29, embark [1] - 15742:1 entire [2] - 15656:29, 15708:13, 15708:18, excluding [1] -
15696:32, 15696:33, embarked [1] - 15684:27 15708:35, 15710:9, 15688:6
15696:35, 15696:38, 15735:6 entitled [2] - 15710:29, 15711:12, excommunication [1]
15697:8, 15698:22, embarrassed [1] - 15693:30, 15711:35 15711:15, 15711:19, - 15707:6
15698:27, 15698:30, 15733:44 environment [1] - 15711:23, 15712:16, excuse [3] - 15661:30,
15698:46, 15699:8, embarrassment [1] - 15678:25 15712:46, 15713:1, 15665:22, 15730:46
15701:30, 15701:38, 15733:46 envisaging [1] - 15713:4, 15714:12, excused [2] -
15702:7, 15702:44, emerge [1] - 15641:43 15733:43 15718:44, 15730:29, 15653:27, 15747:39
15703:6, 15703:32, emerging [1] - 15732:39, 15735:22, exemplary [2] -
equally [1] - 15708:27
15703:40, 15703:44, 15685:36 15736:32, 15736:33, 15726:43, 15726:44
equivalent [1] -
15703:45, 15704:40, 15739:11, 15739:34,
emotionally [1] - 15695:30 exercise [3] - 15669:1,
15704:42, 15705:3, 15741:13, 15745:12,
15673:27 era [1] - 15699:33 15674:4, 15675:13
15706:10, 15706:21, 15745:13, 15747:7,
employed [1] - Eritrea [1] - 15700:22 exhibit [4] - 15642:2,
15706:26, 15707:37, 15747:38
15654:40 escaped [1] - 15666:1 15654:16, 15719:23,
15708:4, 15708:7, evident [1] - 15712:33
enable [3] - 15649:32, especially [1] - 15720:8
15708:27, 15708:28, exacerbate [1] -
15677:16, 15677:26 15663:37 EXHIBIT [5] - 15642:4,
15708:29, 15708:36, 15679:24
enables [1] - 15678:46 essence [2] - 15654:18, 15702:13,
15708:46, 15709:4, exacerbating [1] -
encourage [2] - 15674:47, 15691:18 15719:26, 15720:10
15709:7, 15709:8, 15680:42
15671:42, 15685:8 establish [7] - exhibited [2] -
15709:10, 15709:35, exact [2] - 15642:19,
encouraged [1] - 15646:47, 15650:42, 15648:42, 15650:21
15710:18, 15710:25, 15717:46
15740:10 15651:12, 15672:36, exist [1] - 15713:34
15712:9, 15712:12, exactly [5] - 15675:16,
encouraging [1] - 15672:42, 15717:37 existing [1] -
15712:19, 15716:10, 15686:46, 15690:3,
15672:2 established [11] - 15742:19
15718:18, 15718:24, 15729:39, 15741:38
end [14] - 15647:43, 15645:21, 15645:45, exists [2] - 15697:14,
15718:39, 15721:34, examination [2] -
15650:5, 15661:35, 15646:1, 15647:14, 15713:3
15721:41, 15722:2, 15676:8, 15741:9
15665:4, 15675:11, 15712:12, 15713:23, expand [3] -
15722:14, 15722:15, example [30] -
15678:27, 15678:34, 15736:18, 15736:25, 15657:25, 15724:32,
15723:14, 15727:2, 15658:13, 15667:41,
15679:23, 15679:32, 15736:27, 15738:13, 15725:24
15727:5, 15727:19, 15669:5, 15683:43,
15708:41, 15712:6, 15739:6 expanded [1] -
15729:14, 15732:30, 15684:6, 15688:45,
15715:34, 15719:45, establishing [1] - 15647:22
15732:44, 15733:38, 15690:16, 15691:3,
15726:39 15664:38 expect [5] - 15644:32,
15737:23, 15737:28, 15691:17, 15691:33,
ended [2] - 15681:27, et [6] - 15649:6, 15695:2, 15704:33,
15737:30, 15738:6, 15692:6, 15692:10,
15699:29 15655:11, 15656:35, 15704:39, 15731:12
15738:45, 15739:1, 15692:22, 15692:36,
15739:5, 15739:14, ends" [1] - 15652:41 15657:6, 15657:29, expectation [15] -
endure [1] - 15700:23 15672:3 15693:16, 15696:17, 15670:6, 15670:9,
15739:21, 15739:28, 15701:2, 15703:18,
15739:44, 15739:45, enforce [2] - etc [1] - 15717:35 15670:14, 15672:22,
15697:47, 15742:6 ethical [1] - 15665:43 15703:19, 15705:31, 15672:35, 15675:20,
15739:46, 15739:47, 15706:20, 15706:30,
15740:5, 15740:14, enforced [1] - 15665:6 Europe [1] - 15692:16 15679:43, 15685:23,
.04/08/2015 (152) 11
15686:21, 15689:8, 15683:27, 15683:29 failed [1] - 15740:7 15650:13, 15730:47, flaws [1] - 15681:34
15703:23, 15704:4, extent [6] - 15648:38, fails [1] - 15684:12 15745:44 flexibility [2] -
15706:32, 15737:15, 15678:12, 15679:35, fair [4] - 15655:26, female [2] - 15697:22 15678:43, 15705:39
15737:16 15680:15, 15680:16, 15689:35, 15710:27, few [9] - 15648:17, flick [1] - 15712:23
expected [1] - 15686:8 15680:17 15736:47 15656:16, 15657:8, Flock [6] - 15661:27,
expecting [1] - external [5] - fairly [3] - 15721:29, 15657:18, 15662:42, 15672:16, 15682:12,
15726:4 15711:22, 15727:26, 15729:5, 15732:43 15693:1, 15698:2, 15691:36, 15693:17,
expedient [1] - 15727:27, 15727:40, faith [15] - 15671:32, 15718:13, 15732:19 15747:11
15652:26 15728:40 15674:11, 15674:16, figure [5] - 15643:25, flock [1] - 15725:15
expelling [1] - externally [1] - 15680:18, 15680:19, 15664:22, 15717:44, flooded [1] - 15684:31
15735:39 15711:5 15681:3, 15697:36, 15717:47, 15718:2 flow [7] - 15657:47,
expenses [1] - extract [1] - 15670:35 15699:43, 15714:27, figures [9] - 15664:12, 15658:2, 15658:3,
15655:11 extracted [2] - 15720:22, 15721:6, 15716:41, 15717:4, 15658:13, 15658:18,
experience [7] - 15662:36, 15671:3 15721:16, 15721:40, 15717:5, 15718:7, 15659:19
15660:18, 15675:23, extraordinary [1] - 15741:15, 15741:21 15718:11, 15718:13, follow [8] - 15648:36,
15689:47, 15690:26, 15680:32 faith-based [2] - 15718:17, 15719:12 15650:16, 15661:45,
15732:24, 15734:6, extreme [1] - 15697:36, 15721:40 File [1] - 15716:46 15692:6, 15722:45,
15735:25 15675:44 falls [1] - 15681:10 file [1] - 15719:23 15723:13, 15723:19,
experienced [1] - extremely [8] - false [1] - 15736:9 FILE [1] - 15719:27 15740:1
15689:46 15643:28, 15658:24, familial [1] - 15663:46 files [8] - 15664:32, follow-up [1] -
expert [2] - 15714:7, 15684:39, 15697:6, familiar [1] - 15689:1 15686:23, 15686:29, 15648:36
15714:22 15701:35, 15702:45, families [5] - 15711:42, 15717:35, followed [5] -
expertise [2] - 15703:24, 15734:5 15721:11, 15730:45, 15733:26, 15733:29, 15664:6, 15669:38,
15715:29, 15716:12 extricably [1] - 15732:5, 15732:6, 15733:40 15692:45, 15696:40,
explain [14] - 15647:2, 15650:47 15747:27 final [2] - 15650:26, 15734:22
15649:30, 15654:32, extricated [1] - family [16] - 15660:32, 15716:47 following [6] -
15657:21, 15658:8, 15669:30 15665:19, 15671:35, finalised [1] - 15649:17, 15652:19,
15670:26, 15671:26, 15673:29, 15684:26, 15647:10 15661:44, 15682:11,
15695:39, 15696:20, F 15697:11, 15720:37, fine [4] - 15688:39, 15726:23, 15731:27
15701:3, 15704:23, 15720:43, 15721:4, 15718:34, 15729:18, follows [1] - 15717:1
15716:43, 15720:38, face [11] - 15645:27, 15721:10, 15725:3, 15729:29 foot [2] - 15646:8,
15747:13 15677:41, 15704:25, 15730:12, 15730:21, finger [1] - 15687:39 15712:2
explained [13] - 15704:33, 15704:34, 15730:23, 15738:47, finish [2] - 15720:21, FOR [1] - 15702:13
15663:6, 15666:21, 15704:42, 15705:4, 15747:9 15738:33 force [3] - 15741:23,
15669:16, 15670:23, 15706:31, 15706:33, fanatically [1] - first [32] - 15642:18, 15741:26, 15741:32
15683:11, 15701:41, 15733:16, 15739:28 15700:8 15644:18, 15648:23, forced [2] - 15646:41,
15706:35, 15712:17, faced [2] - 15684:18, fantasise [1] - 15648:34, 15649:8, 15647:42
15728:20, 15733:1, 15716:5 15716:30 15650:15, 15652:12, forensic [1] -
15733:7, 15738:27, facilitates [1] - far [1] - 15667:35 15655:19, 15655:41, 15711:22
15747:12 15697:13 Farrer [1] - 15640:28 15660:29, 15660:36, forever [1] - 15700:23
explaining [2] - facility [1] - 15673:34 fashioned [1] - 15661:3, 15661:14, forgive [2] - 15683:44,
15671:25, 15671:29 facing [1] - 15677:33 15731:7 15668:46, 15674:46, 15738:19
explanation [1] - fact [25] - 15660:43, father [13] - 15643:34, 15675:3, 15684:23, form [7] - 15646:3,
15647:22 15664:36, 15665:10, 15653:2, 15662:10, 15703:30, 15710:24, 15658:37, 15687:20,
exposed [1] - 15665:13, 15665:18, 15669:6, 15670:26, 15713:21, 15716:45, 15687:21, 15702:5,
15660:42 15673:22, 15682:29, 15671:27, 15671:28, 15717:14, 15718:47, 15706:35, 15725:27
express [2] - 15685:45, 15690:20, 15715:30, 15730:30, 15719:11, 15720:24, FORM [1] - 15702:14
15662:40, 15742:33 15693:43, 15697:8, 15730:42, 15731:29, 15720:32, 15724:24, formal [1] - 15646:3
expressed [1] - 15700:32, 15707:7, 15732:1, 15732:7 15725:27, 15729:14, format [3] - 15684:43,
15696:44 15710:20, 15711:31, father" [1] - 15729:46 15739:10, 15739:12, 15703:2, 15703:5
expressing [3] - 15713:16, 15714:31, fathers [3] - 15731:6, 15739:47 formation [1] -
15721:22, 15731:32, 15715:33, 15718:46, 15731:29, 15732:7 first-call [1] - 15661:3 15656:34
15731:33 15732:35, 15739:24, favourable [2] - firstly [1] - 15696:28 formed [2] - 15712:5,
expression [1] - 15744:39, 15744:41, 15740:43, 15740:44 fit [1] - 15699:46 15713:21
15729:24 15745:43, 15747:22 fear [1] - 15742:31 fits [2] - 15672:8, Forming [3] -
extended [1] - factors [1] - 15682:26 feature [1] - 15655:27 15736:32 15701:22, 15702:20,
15677:38 facts [7] - 15663:42, February [1] - five [5] - 15656:7, 15704:17
extensive [2] - 15674:2, 15674:28, 15702:32 15656:9, 15656:31, forms [1] - 15702:37
15664:24, 15741:29 15674:34, 15674:40, fellow [1] - 15721:7 15658:15, 15712:5 formulation [1] -
extensively [2] - 15706:44, 15730:33 felt [4] - 15647:12, flawed [1] - 15681:33 15676:30
.04/08/2015 (152) 12
forthcoming [1] - 15738:24 God [13] - 15661:27, 15660:44, 15662:14, 15648:38, 15649:14,
15649:31 Galatians [2] - 15672:16, 15682:13, 15662:16, 15662:36, 15649:33, 15650:10,
forum [1] - 15677:25 15721:7, 15738:19 15700:7, 15700:29, 15669:18, 15669:30, 15651:28
forward [7] - GALLAGHER [4] - 15722:33, 15723:1, 15733:33 handling [3] -
15677:16, 15689:15, 15732:19, 15732:21, 15730:7, 15742:19, guardians [2] - 15658:17, 15706:11,
15698:5, 15703:28, 15732:23, 15739:32 15742:21, 15742:23, 15698:21, 15744:44 15709:19
15733:15, 15737:35, Gallagher [1] - 15743:5 guess [7] - 15642:41, hands [2] - 15704:1,
15740:42 15732:23 God's [6] - 15714:27, 15643:23, 15657:17, 15712:13
foundation [1] - gaol [1] - 15669:9 15723:6, 15726:43, 15725:16, 15725:17, happily [2] - 15665:42,
15677:13 gap [1] - 15670:5 15742:29, 15742:33, 15740:18, 15744:43 15743:22
four [12] - 15658:15, gardening [1] - 15743:8 guidance [1] - happy [19] - 15657:24,
15664:15, 15682:11, 15657:6 gospel [1] - 15690:36 15707:36 15665:19, 15675:18,
15683:6, 15683:17, general [9] - gospels [1] - 15723:8 guided [1] - 15707:38 15687:28, 15689:17,
15683:24, 15683:33, 15658:32, 15658:33, govern [1] - 15700:46 Guidelines [2] - 15690:45, 15697:43,
15684:11, 15690:40, 15673:22, 15693:46, governed [1] - 15682:14, 15707:31 15699:6, 15704:11,
15691:13, 15718:18, 15694:36, 15694:38, 15672:11 guidelines [6] - 15705:27, 15706:7,
15718:24 15713:9, 15715:41, Governing [22] - 15683:16, 15707:38, 15707:18, 15709:17,
frame [1] - 15642:24 15731:44 15676:10, 15676:12, 15707:45, 15708:23, 15709:38, 15710:16,
framework [2] - generally [10] - 15676:16, 15676:22, 15727:17, 15727:22 15715:30, 15730:26,
15679:5, 15679:7 15659:24, 15661:9, 15676:31, 15676:43, guilt [5] - 15664:38, 15738:21, 15738:39
free [1] - 15692:3 15693:44, 15696:33, 15688:16, 15688:30, 15704:24, 15704:27, hard [1] - 15661:29
freely [1] - 15722:17 15709:37, 15725:10, 15688:38, 15688:42, 15713:22, 15713:26 harm [3] - 15662:13,
Friday [1] - 15681:27 15731:30, 15731:43, 15689:11, 15689:14, guilty [2] - 15649:1, 15662:39, 15734:21
friend [3] - 15696:35, 15732:8, 15734:7 15689:18, 15689:43, 15649:26 harmed [1] - 15669:23
15697:31, 15704:7 generated [2] - 15690:1, 15690:7, Guinea [1] - 15692:16 harmonise [1] -
friendly [1] - 15685:28 15657:36, 15658:14 15690:17, 15690:21, 15699:45
friends [2] - 15697:11, generic [8] - 15690:32, 15690:34, H harmony [16] -
15719:31 15661:10, 15661:20, 15691:19, 15691:26 15688:31, 15689:21,
friendship [1] - 15662:45, 15663:6, government [4] - habits [5] - 15726:11, 15689:25, 15689:42,
15697:13 15668:34, 15670:5, 15700:32, 15700:37, 15726:18, 15726:24, 15690:13, 15690:15,
front [2] - 15651:8, 15696:38, 15747:13 15743:6, 15743:26 15726:47, 15727:38 15690:39, 15690:42,
15725:32 gentleman [1] - Governor [1] - half [5] - 15656:6, 15690:47, 15691:13,
frustrated [1] - 15650:45 15640:27 15663:30, 15663:45, 15692:45, 15706:15,
15738:44 gentlemen [2] - grandchild [2] - 15674:46 15709:20, 15730:15,
full [12] - 15641:21, 15677:4, 15741:3 15662:41, 15670:28 Hall [3] - 15664:2, 15742:39, 15743:32
15653:46, 15654:23, genuine [1] - grandchildren [2] - 15737:4, 15741:31 Harrop" [1] - 15644:10
15654:37, 15654:45, 15697:24 15671:35, 15731:11 Halls [1] - 15657:7 hate [1] - 15663:32
15655:3, 15662:18, genuinely [1] - grandfather [5] - halt [1] - 15735:11 head [2] - 15691:15,
15688:18, 15709:10, 15734:6 15662:11, 15670:27, hand [8] - 15650:35, 15727:39
15723:8, 15727:20, Geoffrey [1] - 15676:9 15671:27, 15671:28, 15658:40, 15661:13, heading [8] -
15744:19 geography [1] - 15715:30 15668:38, 15668:41, 15670:20, 15701:22,
full-time [4] - 15695:40 grant [1] - 15721:16 15701:15, 15716:28 15702:19, 15704:16,
15654:23, 15654:37, George [1] - 15643:38 graphics [1] - 15657:2 Handbook [10] - 15704:21, 15705:20,
15654:45, 15655:3 Germany [1] - grateful [1] - 15730:47 15661:23, 15673:13, 15718:28, 15736:35
fully [6] - 15647:39, 15743:29 gravity [1] - 15739:18 15678:45, 15680:16, Headquarters [1] -
15660:22, 15664:9, given [23] - 15644:25, great [4] - 15663:33, 15680:18, 15682:34, 15707:24
15672:6, 15703:39, 15648:13, 15658:10, 15689:13, 15690:20, 15687:17, 15705:7, headquarters [3] -
15743:13 15661:2, 15661:8, 15721:38 15713:8, 15739:9 15654:23, 15654:27,
function [1] - 15665:26, 15665:28, gross [1] - 15746:24 handbook [8] - 15657:12
15698:31 15670:12, 15678:2, ground [1] - 15663:27 15661:45, 15672:12, Health [1] - 15665:27
fundamental [1] - 15678:14, 15683:34, grounds [1] - 15672:17, 15682:37, hear [11] - 15641:8,
15677:20 15701:32, 15704:3, 15648:13 15683:29, 15712:1, 15643:8, 15678:45,
furnished [1] - 15709:5, 15718:2, group [5] - 15656:29, 15713:39, 15747:11 15686:4, 15693:21,
15719:15 15719:30, 15726:26, 15673:42, 15674:25, handed [4] - 15694:6, 15731:8,
future [2] - 15676:32, 15727:8, 15730:29, 15674:33, 15674:47 15664:23, 15665:29, 15731:9, 15739:11,
15714:16 15737:7, 15737:23, growing [1] - 15732:43, 15734:19 15739:34, 15739:38
15739:13, 15744:3 15725:14 handle [5] - 15649:15, heard [16] - 15643:5,
15650:10, 15670:8, 15649:8, 15662:42,
G gladly [1] - 15706:37 guardian [2] -
go-ahead [2] - 15667:13, 15704:6 15670:10, 15708:14 15669:42, 15673:6,
galatians [1] - 15688:38, 15690:31 guardian/parent [7] - handled [5] - 15678:44, 15685:11,
.04/08/2015 (152) 13
15686:19, 15714:12, 15735:39 hospital [2] - 15736:34 15720:22, 15734:20,
15732:26, 15739:40, holy [1] - 15722:36 15717:47, 15718:13 immodest [1] - 15738:36, 15739:6,
15745:11, 15745:14, home [4] - 15722:42, house [1] - 15720:24 15688:26 15739:43, 15741:36,
15745:16, 15745:18, 15725:4, 15732:29 household [3] - impact [1] - 15734:38 15746:14
15745:30 homes [3] - 15697:12, 15729:18, 15729:29, implementation [1] - indicate [2] -
hearing [12] - 15728:38, 15728:44 15730:6 15676:23 15717:31, 15738:1
15667:30, 15676:29, honestly [1] - housekeeping [1] - implications [3] - indicates [2] -
15677:2, 15684:40, 15726:27 15657:3 15689:2, 15692:18, 15663:15, 15745:29
15693:19, 15693:36, honesty [3] - Human [1] - 15700:35 15721:2 indicators [1] -
15694:11, 15694:17, 15647:11, 15650:27, human [1] - 15700:3 implies [3] - 15671:18, 15706:13
15694:37, 15695:14, 15650:36 humbly [1] - 15739:26 15671:19, 15730:19 individual [36] -
15705:5, 15705:18 Honour [85] - 15641:1, hundreds [3] - importance [1] - 15644:21, 15658:1,
Hearing [2] - 15641:47, 15651:35, 15684:4, 15692:14, 15677:20 15658:12, 15658:25,
15640:22, 15704:21 15651:40, 15651:42, 15700:20 impose [2] - 15658:26, 15662:18,
hearsay [1] - 15739:12 15653:24, 15653:33, husband [3] - 15666:18, 15680:11 15662:26, 15664:2,
held [4] - 15665:34, 15654:14, 15663:22, 15669:9, 15732:42, imposed [1] - 15673:8 15671:33, 15671:34,
15705:38, 15727:7, 15664:26, 15665:2, 15733:1 imposes [1] - 15674:13, 15678:28,
15727:13 15665:20, 15666:22, husbands [1] - 15681:12 15678:31, 15678:44,
Helen [1] - 15640:38 15667:3, 15667:37, 15722:41 imposing [1] - 15678:47, 15679:26,
help [19] - 15657:34, 15668:25, 15676:1, hygiene [1] - 15655:11 15680:42 15680:45, 15680:47,
15663:19, 15666:31, 15676:7, 15677:47, hypothesis [1] - impression [1] - 15685:17, 15685:19,
15673:29, 15674:14, 15678:10, 15678:11, 15737:46 15687:24 15711:34, 15711:36,
15674:15, 15674:20, 15678:12, 15678:13, hypothesising [1] - inaccurately [1] - 15713:4, 15714:33,
15677:42, 15678:15, 15678:22, 15678:40, 15737:45 15734:21 15715:33, 15721:4,
15681:21, 15681:42, 15678:44, 15679:7, hypothetical [8] - inadequacies [1] - 15729:11, 15734:5,
15685:24, 15687:11, 15679:21, 15679:32, 15690:14, 15690:25, 15746:24 15735:24, 15736:33,
15700:43, 15702:47, 15679:36, 15680:2, 15690:37, 15691:16, inadvertently [1] - 15738:28, 15739:27,
15703:6, 15708:7, 15680:7, 15680:14, 15692:5, 15692:26, 15708:9 15739:29, 15740:7,
15721:27, 15741:3 15680:15, 15680:28, 15720:30, 15728:23 inappropriate [6] - 15740:27, 15740:28
helpful [3] - 15687:27, 15680:34, 15680:38, 15678:29, 15711:28, individual's [3] -
15718:9, 15719:5 15680:39, 15681:17, 15665:43, 15674:11,
I 15711:43, 15713:2,
15681:1
helping [2] - 15681:24, 15681:29, 15713:11, 15732:37
15673:25, 15698:6 15681:36, 15681:44, idea [3] - 15666:14, incident [4] - 15649:3, individuals [11] -
herself [1] - 15740:12 15682:2, 15682:6, 15695:42, 15731:5 15711:24, 15711:25, 15646:39, 15658:10,
hesitant [1] - 15685:25, 15685:39, identified [9] - 15711:35 15663:41, 15663:43,
15648:12 15685:47, 15686:27, 15682:25, 15683:15, incidental [1] - 15665:35, 15697:35,
hesitate [1] - 15649:47 15686:46, 15687:15, 15683:18, 15683:25, 15655:10 15697:36, 15707:10,
hidden [1] - 15712:38 15694:26, 15694:44, 15685:26, 15691:8, incidents [6] - 15707:11, 15718:45,
high [1] - 15663:27 15695:2, 15697:7, 15706:4, 15706:18, 15695:4, 15710:32, 15720:43
High [1] - 15741:30 15697:34, 15698:40, 15711:11 15718:23, 15718:29, Indonesia [3] -
Highlands [1] - 15699:25, 15699:38, identify [7] - 15718:31, 15718:37 15696:17, 15696:19
15692:16 15700:20, 15700:41, 15682:23, 15683:12, include [2] - 15664:1, inducement [2] -
highlight [2] - 15701:45, 15702:2, 15683:18, 15700:47, 15696:7 15734:26, 15734:43
15650:13, 15720:42 15702:26, 15706:9, 15705:23, 15706:1, indulged [1] -
includes [1] -
highlighted [4] - 15715:26, 15716:1, 15707:16 15742:13
15664:18
15675:43, 15687:46, 15719:31, 15720:6, ill [1] - 15731:36 indulgence [1] -
including [9] -
15698:37, 15699:25 15721:31, 15722:21, ill-informed [1] - 15745:3
15647:19, 15650:4,
highlights [2] - 15723:20, 15732:4, 15731:36 inexperienced [1] -
15662:15, 15662:16,
15745:26, 15746:23 15739:16, 15739:22, illustrate [1] - 15745:27
15677:2, 15689:5,
himself [2] - 15739:32, 15739:36, 15679:39 inflicted [1] -
15714:34, 15741:12,
15695:11, 15705:35 15741:1, 15741:42, imagine [4] - 15658:7, 15686:20
15741:15
15742:9, 15743:39, 15669:8, 15697:34, inflicting [1] -
historical [2] - INCLUDING [1] -
15743:42, 15747:1 15729:42 15680:42
15662:35, 15734:7 15719:26
Honour's [6] - immature [1] - inform [5] - 15645:9,
histories [1] - inconsistent [1] -
15678:1, 15678:23, 15726:38 15645:12, 15649:20,
15728:44 15670:15
15678:24, 15679:34, immediately [9] - 15649:23, 15709:8
history [3] - 15645:1, incorrectly [1] -
15681:39, 15743:25 15682:46, 15691:44, informal [1] -
15658:24, 15727:41 15738:20
hopefully [1] - 15692:2, 15719:46, 15718:13
hmm [3] - 15667:25, increasing [1] -
15679:34 15735:38, 15735:45, information [16] -
15667:28, 15703:34 15677:18
horrific [2] - 15730:43 15736:4, 15736:31, 15641:33, 15641:38,
hold [2] - 15735:23, indeed [8] - 15671:18,
.04/08/2015 (152) 14
15648:40, 15649:32, 15699:39, 15730:10 15650:33 15660:38, 15679:24, 15742:47, 15743:13,
15652:47, 15661:12, integrate [1] - investigation [12] - 15695:16, 15734:13, 15743:17, 15743:33,
15661:43, 15665:36, 15700:11 15677:7, 15696:25, 15735:45 15746:18, 15746:24
15666:45, 15667:8, integration [1] - 15698:13, 15698:27, Jehovahs [1] -
15717:36, 15720:29, 15657:31 15706:36, 15708:19, J 15699:19
15720:31, 15721:2, intend [1] - 15694:29 15712:4, 15733:7, Jesus [2] - 15690:35,
15726:35 intended [1] - 15735:22, 15735:41, Jackson [11] - 15705:35
informed [6] - 15693:38 15735:44, 15735:45 15676:9, 15676:15, job [1] - 15739:23
15660:8, 15718:10, intention [2] - investigative [3] - 15676:19, 15676:21, join [1] - 15698:42
15718:21, 15731:36, 15686:2, 15744:47 15704:18, 15735:5, 15676:35, 15676:37, joined [1] - 15643:34
15738:45, 15747:8 intentions [1] - 15735:10 15676:41, 15677:35, joy [1] - 15721:7
informing [1] - 15746:26 invite [1] - 15732:4 15678:3, 15681:21, judge [1] - 15688:23
15660:14 interest [1] - 15665:6 invited [1] - 15725:4 15681:42 judges [1] - 15741:30
inherent [2] - interface [1] - involve [5] - 15660:13, Jackson's [1] - judgment [5] -
15685:16, 15697:32 15656:29 15670:30, 15671:30, 15676:28 15712:32, 15727:18,
initial [2] - 15645:44, interfere [1] - 15675:39, 15725:2 Jan [1] - 15658:40 15742:25, 15743:16,
15658:6 15735:40 involved [23] - January [3] - 15743:18
initials [2] - 15657:37, interfering [2] - 15650:23, 15650:45, 15645:29, 15649:38, judicial [40] -
15657:45 15644:46, 15649:28 15651:27, 15660:18, 15658:46 15643:42, 15645:20,
injunction [3] - internal [4] - 15661:39, 15664:16, Jehovah's [88] - 15645:24, 15645:38,
15705:40, 15722:45, 15664:30, 15664:36, 15676:23, 15683:3, 15642:7, 15642:11, 15646:12, 15647:21,
15723:19 15714:13, 15714:15 15683:9, 15698:27, 15643:4, 15643:7, 15648:17, 15650:31,
injunctions [2] - internally [1] - 15699:4, 15703:22, 15643:28, 15650:23, 15651:17, 15652:22,
15721:29, 15723:38 15657:24 15706:10, 15715:47, 15650:43, 15654:24, 15652:40, 15652:41,
innocence [1] - interpret [3] - 15718:1, 15718:6, 15654:46, 15655:17, 15678:43, 15693:18,
15713:22 15703:38, 15723:8, 15722:2, 15723:15, 15655:19, 15655:22, 15693:36, 15693:46,
inquire [1] - 15738:32 15723:38 15726:38, 15728:35, 15655:27, 15663:37, 15694:17, 15695:3,
inquiries [2] - interpretation [1] - 15732:28, 15733:38, 15663:43, 15663:44, 15695:13, 15698:38,
15658:33, 15726:47 15688:43 15735:37 15664:2, 15665:39, 15704:26, 15704:31,
inquiry [3] - 15713:26, interpreted [3] - involvement [3] - 15672:12, 15673:8, 15704:43, 15705:5,
15733:6, 15735:16 15698:39, 15710:21, 15674:9, 15676:16, 15705:15, 15705:18,
15679:10, 15679:12,
inserted [1] - 15679:17 15735:24 15676:18, 15676:34, 15705:36, 15706:10,
15693:44 involving [2] - 15676:47, 15677:8, 15706:37, 15707:2,
interrupt [2] -
insinuating [1] - 15648:37, 15736:22 15679:36, 15682:12, 15707:15, 15708:47,
15694:20, 15712:42
15731:39 irrelevant [1] - 15683:22, 15685:5, 15711:14, 15712:5,
interrupting [1] -
insofar [3] - 15711:18, 15732:36 15688:26, 15689:26, 15712:21, 15712:44,
15686:26
15712:44, 15713:38 irreprehensible [1] - 15690:33, 15690:45, 15713:20, 15714:9,
intervention [3] -
inspired [1] - 15700:7 15736:9 15696:4, 15696:13, 15735:38
15663:26, 15698:21,
irrespective [1] - 15699:6, 15699:21, Judicial [4] -
instance [4] - 15717:10
15664:43 15699:26, 15699:33, 15701:23, 15702:20,
15646:39, 15650:28, interview [5] -
Islands [1] - 15693:3 15699:38, 15700:20, 15704:17, 15704:21
15661:14, 15703:14 15708:6, 15708:15,
islands [4] - 15696:7, 15700:30, 15700:33, judicially [7] -
instances [2] - 15708:20, 15708:35,
15696:9, 15696:14, 15705:33, 15707:5, 15649:33, 15706:13,
15704:35, 15710:20 15709:32
15696:18 15712:13, 15714:44, 15706:21, 15708:14,
institution [1] - interviewed [2] -
issue [17] - 15645:41, 15715:36, 15715:46, 15708:38, 15710:30,
15677:27 15709:14
15660:36, 15660:38, 15716:3, 15716:6, 15711:46
INSTITUTIONAL [1] - interviewing [4] -
15665:21, 15677:41, 15716:18, 15717:23, judiciary [2] -
15640:17 15707:45, 15709:26,
15679:16, 15687:30, 15718:45, 15718:46, 15714:1, 15734:39
instructed [12] - 15710:4, 15710:25
15689:14, 15689:16, 15719:6, 15719:8, July [8] - 15641:26,
15648:20, 15660:2, intimate [2] - 15697:4,
15689:21, 15690:2, 15721:16, 15721:23, 15654:4, 15656:19,
15663:10, 15663:24, 15746:6
15697:29, 15719:7, 15721:28, 15724:6, 15717:15, 15717:18,
15669:14, 15669:34, INTO [1] - 15640:17
15736:17, 15745:4 15724:21, 15724:30, 15719:16, 15719:37,
15671:5, 15671:46, introduced [4] -
issued [2] - 15677:40, 15724:46, 15725:6, 15727:4
15672:38, 15727:2, 15683:45, 15684:1,
15695:26 15729:3, 15729:10, jury [1] - 15736:26
15744:40, 15747:26 15684:9, 15687:7 15732:6, 15732:9,
instruction [5] - invariably [1] - issues [8] - 15657:29, Justice [1] - 15640:37
15732:25, 15734:35,
15670:13, 15670:15, 15660:25 15677:31, 15677:32, justified [1] -
15734:38, 15736:45,
15684:23, 15684:29, investigate [4] - 15681:20, 15683:36, 15710:46
15737:2, 15737:3,
15704:22 15648:18, 15696:34, 15684:27, 15692:18 jw.org [3] - 15656:35,
15741:15, 15741:20,
instructions [4] - 15696:39, 15708:8 it" [1] - 15675:46 15685:3, 15685:6
15741:22, 15741:37,
15678:41, 15699:32, investigated [1] - itself [6] - 15660:13,
15742:7, 15742:36,
.04/08/2015 (152) 15
15744:24 15659:14, 15673:10, 15671:42, 15672:8, 15730:42
K
languages [1] - 15677:14, 15688:6, 15672:9, 15672:20, listing [1] - 15669:29
Kalamunda [1] - 15695:32 15695:17, 15698:38 15672:21, 15672:22, literal [1] - 15723:38
15651:25 large [7] - 15656:44, leave [8] - 15647:9, 15672:23, 15672:30, literalists [1] -
keep [2] - 15714:44, 15656:46, 15657:3, 15648:20, 15650:25, 15672:33, 15682:13, 15731:23
15722:36 15657:4, 15657:6, 15651:14, 15700:41, 15682:17, 15682:37, literally [2] - 15723:7,
kept [2] - 15664:24, 15659:8 15712:12, 15736:21, 15683:16, 15683:29, 15743:3
15712:37 last [27] - 15645:2, 15738:18 15684:1, 15690:37, literature [1] -
key [2] - 15683:36, 15645:35, 15645:39, leaves [2] - 15670:7, 15691:17, 15691:18, 15656:47
15717:33 15650:5, 15652:12, 15670:9 15691:19, 15691:24, live [2] - 15655:6,
kill [1] - 15743:7 15662:42, 15664:7, leaving [1] - 15650:41 15691:28, 15691:30, 15736:45
kind [6] - 15648:41, 15664:9, 15664:13, lecture [1] - 15722:13 15704:32, 15705:44, LLB [1] - 15659:27
15650:20, 15710:33, 15664:15, 15665:25, led [1] - 15705:1 15706:35, 15706:43, LLC [3] - 15644:25,
15728:33, 15729:42, 15669:39, 15672:39, left [11] - 15642:41, 15707:24, 15717:14, 15659:23, 15659:24
15729:45 15676:33, 15681:26, 15651:11, 15651:19, 15717:18, 15717:22, LLF [1] - 15659:30
kindly [2] - 15697:24, 15682:46, 15683:47, 15651:21, 15655:46, 15727:2, 15737:21 load [2] - 15721:8,
15730:44 15684:40, 15686:1, 15660:41, 15676:27, letters [7] - 15658:29, 15738:25
Kingdom [4] - 15686:29, 15687:47, 15684:46, 15708:37, 15683:32, 15683:33, loath [1] - 15663:35
15657:7, 15664:2, 15698:35, 15707:42, 15712:19, 15716:28 15684:14, 15688:19, loathe [2] - 15732:8,
15737:4, 15741:31 15718:20, 15718:36, left-hand [1] - 15691:5 15732:13
kitchen [1] - 15657:4 15720:21, 15747:7 15716:28 Level [1] - 15640:27 local [3] - 15678:42,
knelt [1] - 15711:36 latter [1] - 15674:23 legal [30] - 15645:28, level [6] - 15660:25, 15688:32, 15736:7
knocking [1] - law [32] - 15652:40, 15645:36, 15647:10, 15660:31, 15663:6, locally [1] - 15688:20
15724:38 15663:18, 15665:6, 15649:44, 15650:41, 15669:43, 15697:13, located [2] -
knowledge [19] - 15666:31, 15666:47, 15650:44, 15651:12, 15743:21 15656:39, 15666:44
15659:4, 15659:7, 15671:7, 15688:47, 15652:46, 15653:1, Leviticus [1] - 15698:3 Loganholme [9] -
15666:8, 15666:9, 15689:7, 15692:40, 15656:37, 15656:43, lie [1] - 15716:30 15642:40, 15643:33,
15667:24, 15668:1, 15692:42, 15692:43, 15657:23, 15657:27, lies [3] - 15646:32, 15643:43, 15644:5,
15668:3, 15668:21, 15692:46, 15693:6, 15657:29, 15657:31, 15652:39, 15747:21 15644:9, 15644:40,
15668:31, 15669:24, 15699:26, 15699:29, 15659:24, 15660:2, life [7] - 15655:28, 15651:18, 15651:19,
15669:27, 15669:29, 15699:30, 15699:44, 15660:9, 15660:21, 15688:29, 15692:9, 15651:29
15674:10, 15731:4, 15700:25, 15700:33, 15660:43, 15667:15, 15700:9, 15721:10, logical [1] - 15648:7
15735:5, 15739:16, 15739:25, 15739:29, 15667:17, 15672:39, 15728:47, 15734:34 longest [2] -
15739:19, 15744:28 15740:37, 15742:5, 15688:46, 15689:1, lifetime [2] - 15654:33, 15745:30
known [8] - 15687:24, 15742:6, 15742:36, 15692:18, 15721:2, 15684:28, 15692:19 look [39] - 15643:32,
15697:5, 15697:31, 15742:37, 15742:39, 15743:26, 15743:32 likely [11] - 15649:40, 15643:47, 15645:1,
15698:32, 15709:8, 15743:8, 15743:11, legally [4] - 15646:47, 15650:6, 15663:44, 15645:17, 15645:27,
15712:31, 15726:44, 15743:14, 15743:19 15647:13, 15650:42, 15676:29, 15680:31, 15646:2, 15647:10,
15727:15 Law [1] - 15722:39 15651:12 15696:46, 15698:45, 15647:17, 15647:44,
knows [3] - 15666:19, laws [2] - 15666:17, lends [1] - 15734:13 15705:34, 15708:15, 15651:16, 15652:11,
15722:23, 15737:37 15742:42 length [2] - 15669:14, 15709:15, 15714:7 15658:36, 15664:25,
Koran [1] - 15699:40 lawyer [1] - 15723:4 15698:34 limit [1] - 15744:3 15666:30, 15667:23,
Korea [3] - 15700:21, lawyer/client [1] - less [4] - 15663:30, limitation [1] - 15670:19, 15670:39,
15743:7, 15743:29 15692:37 15680:41, 15688:47, 15711:45 15674:46, 15675:25,
KS91 [1] - 15705:7 lawyers [4] - 15734:28 limitations [3] - 15680:36, 15682:25,
15666:31, 15676:17, lessened [1] - 15697:7 15711:33, 15715:38, 15687:43, 15690:45,
15676:33, 15717:3 lesser [2] - 15734:19, 15746:3
L layperson [1] -
15696:23, 15707:23,
15734:42 limited [1] - 15708:47 15707:30, 15707:41,
laicising [1] - 15724:27 lesson [1] - 15664:11 line [2] - 15714:14, 15709:24, 15714:2,
15735:36 lead [1] - 15674:38 letter [54] - 15644:3, 15738:2 15717:14, 15722:19,
land [2] - 15696:4, leading [1] - 15712:32 15644:9, 15644:14, lines [1] - 15712:6 15724:24, 15725:31,
15696:17 learn [1] - 15722:40 15644:19, 15647:8, linked [1] - 15650:47 15728:34, 15729:13,
landed [1] - 15717:4 learned [1] - 15719:31 15648:23, 15648:29, list [1] - 15726:22 15734:22, 15739:8,
lands [6] - 15695:38, learning [4] - 15648:32, 15650:13, listed [2] - 15683:35, 15746:30, 15746:37
15695:40, 15696:1, 15680:30, 15690:27, 15651:16, 15652:4, 15684:4 looked [3] - 15686:2,
15696:5, 15696:12, 15715:10, 15715:21 15652:11, 15658:20, listen [2] - 15706:7, 15688:1, 15727:22
15696:18 learnt [2] - 15685:37, 15658:22, 15658:43, 15732:39 looking [15] -
language [5] - 15714:45 15670:35, 15670:36, listened [1] - 15643:43, 15644:18,
15669:16, 15673:23, least [9] - 15643:16, 15670:39, 15670:40, 15732:40 15648:12, 15650:27,
15696:12, 15723:4, 15648:21, 15657:35, 15670:46, 15671:25, listening [1] - 15650:35, 15650:37,
.04/08/2015 (152) 16
15663:47, 15686:35, 15709:27, 15729:29, 15709:45, 15712:12, 15674:2, 15674:29, 15701:2, 15701:23,
15691:37, 15695:21, 15730:15, 15730:46 15728:7, 15741:28, 15674:32, 15679:19, 15707:20, 15727:34,
15718:6, 15728:31, manner" [1] - 15744:42, 15746:25 15686:14, 15687:18, 15737:39, 15737:41
15740:42, 15747:12 15729:18 mature [2] - 15704:10, 15689:18, 15689:19, mine [2] - 15644:3,
looks [2] - 15645:35, manual [2] - 15726:39 15690:1, 15702:41, 15731:33
15664:31 15693:37, 15693:39 McClellan [1] - 15741:14, 15741:20, minimise [2] -
loose [1] - 15740:30 March [2] - 15646:4, 15640:37 15741:25 15726:36, 15733:45
loss [1] - 15679:4 15647:18 McGlinchey [4] - membership [1] - minimised [1] -
lost [2] - 15678:26, Mareeba [2] - 15724:2, 15724:4, 15655:26 15734:14
15697:44 15643:39, 15644:41 15732:15 memorandum [2] - minimum [1] -
love [4] - 15669:23, mark [1] - 15719:18 meals [1] - 15697:11 15645:28, 15645:32 15710:14
15731:12, 15732:9, marrying [1] - mean [13] - 15660:7, memory [3] - minister [4] -
15742:41 15726:39 15672:23, 15685:42, 15641:39, 15684:12, 15654:23, 15736:7,
loving [6] - 15709:26, masters [1] - 15721:6 15690:12, 15696:6, 15684:14 15742:29, 15742:33
15729:42, 15729:45, material [9] - 15703:36, 15712:43, men [15] - 15671:35, ministerial [6] -
15730:12, 15731:24, 15661:16, 15663:14, 15723:35, 15725:24, 15684:26, 15697:10, 15655:31, 15664:15,
15731:40 15671:40, 15673:35, 15727:27, 15729:35, 15699:8, 15703:44, 15718:18, 15718:25,
lunch [7] - 15700:39, 15675:28, 15684:20, 15729:36 15703:45, 15704:2, 15730:39, 15735:36
15700:43, 15701:9, 15685:27, 15688:13, meaning [5] - 15706:26, 15712:31, ministers [2] -
15701:14, 15742:12, 15690:46 15648:2, 15658:33, 15712:33, 15721:34, 15663:47, 15668:26
15742:47 materials [1] - 15667:40, 15689:32, 15721:41, 15722:15, Ministers [1] -
lying [8] - 15645:39, 15657:2 15745:25 15723:6, 15746:3 15727:30
15645:42, 15646:26, matter [58] - 15645:13, meanings [1] - mention [2] - ministry [5] -
15646:28, 15647:7, 15645:17, 15645:31, 15689:33 15644:45, 15723:3 15642:13, 15656:31,
15647:15, 15647:42, 15648:37, 15649:15, means [8] - 15661:26, mentioned [10] - 15722:3, 15724:32,
15652:23 15649:24, 15649:33, 15664:30, 15664:37, 15648:47, 15656:4, 15725:24
15650:10, 15650:16, 15666:29, 15690:40, 15662:9, 15667:3, minor [3] - 15660:41,
M 15650:24, 15650:40, 15692:43, 15696:10, 15691:14, 15701:15, 15662:12, 15704:10
15651:11, 15651:14, 15697:40 15705:8, 15713:2, minute [2] - 15705:47,
Macquarie [1] - 15653:8, 15660:8, meantime [1] - 15721:9, 15738:30 15745:4
15640:27 15662:24, 15663:9, 15665:42 mercury [1] - minutes [3] -
mail [3] - 15658:42, 15664:43, 15665:30, measure [1] - 15687:39 15648:17, 15702:20,
15659:9, 15659:11 15673:43, 15674:26, 15731:14 met [2] - 15649:43, 15741:9
mainstream [1] - 15674:36, 15674:38, mechanics [1] - 15702:33 misapplication [2] -
15675:41 15674:39, 15674:42, 15682:8 method [1] - 15658:4 15698:2, 15698:3
maintenance [1] - 15675:1, 15675:12, mechanisms [4] - mid-1990s [2] - misapplied [4] -
15656:34 15676:27, 15678:22, 15714:13, 15714:15, 15686:27, 15686:37 15689:36, 15690:22,
majority [2] - 15679:22, 15680:47, 15715:9, 15715:17 middle [4] - 15646:15, 15698:3, 15731:21
15656:17, 15662:34 15681:2, 15681:4, medical [1] - 15716:9 15694:26, 15729:24, misconception [1] -
male [3] - 15696:47, 15688:32, 15706:12, meet [4] - 15680:11, 15730:3 15716:30
15697:21, 15697:22 15708:5, 15708:14, 15712:9, 15712:18, might [28] - 15657:12, Misconceptions [1] -
man [12] - 15668:4, 15708:24, 15709:10, 15732:5 15657:30, 15664:33, 15716:27
15680:5, 15697:22, 15709:15, 15709:17, meeting [2] - 15702:9, 15665:4, 15666:35, misconduct [1] -
15697:25, 15700:29, 15709:19, 15709:21, 15741:32 15676:8, 15677:16, 15735:4
15729:16, 15729:28, 15712:19, 15712:40, MEETING [1] - 15677:36, 15681:21, misquote [1] -
15730:5, 15730:9, 15712:44, 15715:41, 15702:14 15688:13, 15694:34, 15683:44
15730:11, 15731:37, 15728:8, 15736:8, meetings [3] - 15698:16, 15700:3, misrepresented [1] -
15743:6 15736:22, 15736:26, 15703:5, 15715:2, 15700:39, 15700:42, 15686:27
mandatorily [1] - 15736:27, 15740:10, 15722:9 15704:10, 15720:13, miss [1] - 15730:3
15665:38 15742:39, 15746:19, meets [2] - 15688:23, 15723:3, 15726:39, missed [3] - 15715:4,
mandatory [12] - 15747:1, 15747:18, 15702:7 15734:41, 15736:26, 15716:25, 15739:46
15660:21, 15660:33, 15747:23 member [10] - 15737:39, 15738:32, missing [1] -
15665:12, 15665:21, matters [20] - 15654:29, 15654:31, 15738:37, 15738:43, 15682:16
15665:34, 15665:40, 15650:31, 15656:32, 15654:44, 15655:22, 15744:45, 15745:25, missionary [1] -
15666:14, 15688:46, 15657:30, 15657:32, 15655:38, 15656:21, 15746:6 15725:17
15690:16, 15692:47, 15678:6, 15678:7, 15676:9, 15676:15, Milroy [1] - 15640:38 mistaken [1] - 15701:3
15721:1, 15740:44 15678:11, 15678:25, 15676:43 Milton [1] - 15717:23 mistreated [1] -
Manly [1] - 15642:30 15678:47, 15679:37, members [17] - mind [11] - 15641:32, 15731:39
manner [6] - 15680:19, 15681:37, 15656:8, 15657:13, 15667:1, 15667:27, misunderstanding [2]
15649:17, 15693:36, 15688:42, 15696:34, 15657:16, 15673:9, 15680:45, 15683:47, - 15686:34,
.04/08/2015 (152) 17
15690:28 multiple [1] - needed [2] - 15663:2, 15715:16 obligation [4] -
misunderstood [3] - 15695:32 15741:1 normal [1] - 15675:41 15664:45, 15666:47,
15690:35, 15692:34, murder [2] - 15720:32, needs [15] - 15660:40, normally [1] - 15681:10, 15740:17
15736:35 15741:29 15667:22, 15672:4, 15696:31 obligations [2] -
mixed [1] - 15730:25 murky [1] - 15740:34 15677:44, 15680:10, North [1] - 15656:2 15664:42, 15743:1
mmm-hmm [3] - Muslim [1] - 15699:39 15680:44, 15680:45, note [2] - 15687:16, obliged [1] - 15712:22
15667:25, 15667:28, must [11] - 15647:32, 15685:41, 15686:42, 15743:42 observation [1] -
15703:34 15669:15, 15674:33, 15688:20, 15691:30, noted [1] - 15737:26 15663:34
mocked [1] - 15674:16 15675:14, 15678:30, 15697:23, 15745:28, nothing [8] - observations [2] -
mode [1] - 15700:25 15693:6, 15696:39, 15746:29, 15747:31 15653:24, 15671:42, 15746:41, 15746:43
modelled [1] - 15704:27, 15706:26, neighbour [1] - 15705:43, 15706:34, observe [1] -
15678:31 15738:25, 15744:19 15720:24 15730:44, 15732:15, 15743:28
modern [1] - 15700:11 myriad [1] - 15684:30 neighbour's [1] - 15738:27 observer [4] -
molestation [6] - 15720:24 notice [3] - 15672:24, 15693:31, 15709:33,
15701:36, 15725:40, N neighbours [1] - 15679:29, 15695:38 15709:45, 15711:23
15726:17, 15726:25, 15714:40 noticeboard [1] - observers [4] -
15726:41, 15727:37 naive [3] - 15711:40, never [18] - 15649:13, 15670:47 15693:26, 15694:11,
molested [1] - 15714:31, 15737:16 15651:21, 15662:1, notwithstanding [2] - 15694:40, 15695:11
15652:38 name [9] - 15641:22, 15667:1, 15684:28, 15647:24, 15746:26 observes [1] -
molesting [2] - 15644:22, 15647:20, 15708:29, 15709:18, November [4] - 15711:24
15645:11, 15649:22 15651:46, 15653:47, 15709:21, 15709:39, 15644:4, 15648:29, obviously [7] -
moment [13] - 15724:4, 15732:23, 15709:41, 15714:25, 15683:45, 15684:13 15657:1, 15657:28,
15646:2, 15647:41, 15741:10, 15744:6 15714:28, 15714:37, NSW [1] - 15665:27 15661:34, 15661:35,
15650:14, 15666:24, names [3] - 15647:18, 15714:43, 15720:30, Number [1] - 15718:29 15681:37, 15688:45,
15677:15, 15677:32, 15661:15, 15669:29 15739:46, 15739:47 number [25] - 15746:1
15677:41, 15678:17, national [1] - nevertheless [6] - 15643:11, 15643:29, occasion [4] -
15679:30, 15682:25, 15666:24 15647:20, 15651:31, 15656:19, 15656:22, 15661:21, 15674:10,
15683:11, 15686:45, nature [6] - 15675:39, 15709:36, 15715:15, 15656:45, 15657:3, 15684:23, 15704:36
15741:39 15692:43, 15725:18, 15716:16, 15717:32 15657:36, 15663:32, occasions [3] -
momentum [1] - 15726:37, 15737:8, new [9] - 15656:34, 15663:42, 15664:8, 15652:27, 15725:3,
15721:35 15746:13 15684:10, 15688:35, 15665:25, 15674:8, 15745:6
month [5] - 15643:27, Nazi [3] - 15700:31, 15689:41, 15690:8, 15674:18, 15686:29, occupation [1] -
15658:13, 15702:31, 15743:1, 15743:29 15691:13, 15721:29, 15696:5, 15715:9, 15654:21
15702:34, 15704:41 Nazis [1] - 15743:6 15739:24, 15744:33 15715:22, 15717:30, occupy [1] - 15654:26
monthly [1] - 15702:5 neatly [1] - 15699:46 New [17] - 15665:44, 15718:35, 15725:2, occur [4] - 15732:34,
Monty [1] - 15724:5 necessarily [3] - 15666:44, 15666:45, 15725:35, 15729:15, 15736:38, 15737:8,
moral [9] - 15693:26, 15657:41, 15712:47, 15667:23, 15668:29, 15729:17, 15745:6 15746:29
15694:40, 15695:12, 15726:19 15676:12, 15676:16, numbered [3] - occurred [4] -
15726:10, 15726:18, necessary [6] - 15678:19, 15678:38, 15701:21, 15702:19, 15649:3, 15705:31,
15726:23, 15726:47, 15641:12, 15653:36, 15679:5, 15679:10, 15702:21 15718:37, 15743:2
15727:38, 15731:15 15670:28, 15685:18, 15688:9, 15692:16, numbers [2] - occurring [1] -
morning [4] - 15676:3, 15696:28, 15698:30 15692:31, 15695:24, 15643:16, 15664:7 15743:2
15741:31, 15741:33, necessities [1] - 15720:40, 15739:27 numerous [1] - October [7] -
15747:43 15654:42 next [10] - 15641:1, 15698:20 15672:20, 15682:13,
Mosaic [1] - 15699:26 need [31] - 15666:30, 15644:26, 15653:11, 15682:16, 15682:37,
15653:33, 15688:5,
most [12] - 15652:26, 15667:22, 15667:33, O 15683:16, 15716:27,
15656:16, 15678:2, 15669:20, 15677:34, 15704:21, 15707:30, 15737:20
15684:25, 15696:45, 15680:25, 15680:36, 15708:19, 15725:44, O'Brien [3] - 15678:9, OF [5] - 15642:4,
15707:39, 15710:2, 15681:3, 15681:14, 15726:8 15678:12, 15682:1 15654:18, 15719:26,
15711:1, 15716:35, 15685:28, 15688:29, nice [1] - 15688:13 o'clock [1] - 15741:31 15720:10
15716:36, 15718:37, 15688:37, 15690:2, nine [1] - 15656:6 oath [1] - 15747:33 offence [9] -
15739:36 15690:7, 15690:17, no-one [4] - 15686:18, obey [4] - 15693:6, 15663:19, 15664:39,
mother [2] - 15669:6, 15696:39, 15699:44, 15686:23, 15690:37, 15700:29, 15700:33, 15664:45, 15665:17,
15696:34 15705:14, 15705:38, 15714:29 15730:9 15665:39, 15666:10,
motivated [2] - 15708:6, 15708:8, nobody [1] - 15714:47 obeying [2] - 15743:5, 15668:20, 15712:47,
15715:31, 15740:46 15708:15, 15710:25, non [1] - 15722:15 15743:14 15717:32
mould [1] - 15685:18 15719:45, 15730:32, non-elders [1] - objection [2] - offences [6] -
move [1] - 15714:24 15733:33, 15735:47, 15722:15 15674:17, 15741:42 15664:14, 15664:16,
moved [1] - 15656:1 15736:1, 15736:39, none [4] - 15663:20, obligated [1] - 15726:37, 15728:13,
moving [1] - 15737:34 15746:37, 15747:35 15663:36, 15687:17, 15691:22 15728:45, 15735:37
.04/08/2015 (152) 18
offend [1] - 15714:24 15659:8, 15663:15, 15658:45, 15659:8, 15698:32, 15698:39, 15682:45, 15682:47,
offended [2] - 15664:23, 15667:39, 15659:11, 15660:26 15736:15 15691:37, 15693:18,
15716:5, 15716:6 15667:44, 15668:38, openly [3] - 15688:42, outstanding [1] - 15693:34, 15693:46,
offender [7] - 15709:7, 15669:7, 15669:42, 15690:21, 15726:34 15739:23 15694:4, 15694:21,
15709:9, 15713:47, 15671:8, 15678:32, operate [1] - 15668:24 over-literally [1] - 15694:25, 15694:47,
15737:13, 15737:36, 15680:10, 15680:38, opportunity [5] - 15723:7 15695:7, 15696:24,
15737:40, 15737:42 15682:30, 15683:19, 15663:39, 15672:32, overseer [7] - 15701:21, 15701:23,
offenders [3] - 15683:46, 15684:4, 15676:8, 15677:24, 15644:5, 15644:10, 15702:16, 15702:19,
15716:4, 15716:16, 15684:6, 15684:11, 15706:43 15702:6, 15702:33, 15702:21, 15702:36,
15716:17 15684:26, 15684:39, opposed [3] - 15703:3, 15729:28 15702:40, 15704:22,
offending [1] - 15685:41, 15686:18, 15650:28, 15671:40, overseer's [1] - 15709:24, 15712:2,
15737:8 15686:23, 15686:30, 15698:31 15702:8 15717:25, 15724:25,
offer [1] - 15668:35 15686:35, 15687:18, opposes [1] - OVERSEER'S [1] - 15729:13, 15737:21,
office [36] - 15652:21, 15687:41, 15688:26, 15742:22 15702:13 15745:6, 15747:15
15655:6, 15655:13, 15690:6, 15690:37, opposite [3] - overseers [2] - paragraphs [1] -
15656:5, 15656:11, 15693:7, 15695:25, 15721:22, 15741:38, 15704:40, 15705:2 15747:12
15656:39, 15657:7, 15696:17, 15696:32, 15742:9 oversight [1] - pardon [2] - 15682:36,
15659:15, 15661:38, 15696:35, 15696:43, option [3] - 15709:41, 15647:32 15719:20
15669:15, 15670:21, 15697:20, 15697:37, 15709:43, 15744:26 own [17] - 15652:41, parent [6] - 15662:16,
15682:17, 15682:46, 15697:44, 15698:34, options [1] - 15744:14 15656:40, 15672:3, 15669:1, 15696:33,
15683:2, 15683:8, 15698:36, 15698:37, order [5] - 15654:45, 15688:13, 15710:17, 15729:40, 15731:10,
15683:14, 15684:22, 15699:25, 15699:28, 15680:11, 15685:43, 15711:3, 15714:32, 15733:31
15684:24, 15684:29, 15700:14, 15701:1, 15710:30, 15740:12 15721:8, 15728:36, parent/guardian [5] -
15684:33, 15688:12, 15702:38, 15702:41, ordinary [1] - 15728:37, 15729:18, 15670:31, 15671:30,
15688:33, 15691:44, 15703:14, 15703:20, 15657:14 15729:28, 15730:6, 15672:3, 15696:27,
15692:3, 15692:21, 15703:40, 15704:39, organisation [11] - 15730:12, 15738:25, 15696:28
15692:47, 15707:36, 15705:42, 15706:4, 15655:2, 15665:11, 15739:6, 15745:44 parentheses [1] -
15708:4, 15709:6, 15706:14, 15707:25, 15671:32, 15683:41, 15704:24
15707:42, 15708:12,
15727:6, 15727:14, 15684:37, 15689:19, P parents [26] -
15727:20, 15727:21, 15709:31, 15711:35, 15697:36, 15710:18, 15655:19, 15671:20,
15727:39, 15739:13, 15712:22, 15714:29, 15710:22, 15721:40, Pacific [1] - 15693:2 15683:39, 15698:20,
15739:28 15716:11, 15716:28, 15729:10 page [34] - 15644:17, 15704:6, 15708:22,
Office [2] - 15682:14, 15720:20, 15722:8, organisations [3] - 15644:18, 15644:19, 15708:23, 15708:24,
15707:31 15723:13, 15725:44, 15663:37, 15664:24, 15645:2, 15645:35, 15708:31, 15708:46,
offices [1] - 15657:7 15727:28, 15734:3, 15665:24 15646:9, 15646:15, 15709:2, 15709:9,
often [4] - 15661:11, 15734:28, 15737:19, organised [1] - 15648:33, 15652:12, 15709:37, 15729:41,
15710:41, 15713:15, 15737:22, 15737:30, 15683:15 15661:31, 15671:2, 15729:42, 15729:45,
15713:16 15738:25, 15739:19, 15673:16, 15682:34, 15731:16, 15732:10,
Organised [3] -
old [2] - 15731:7, 15739:20, 15741:8, 15682:41, 15682:42, 15733:25, 15733:41,
15672:11, 15682:12,
15746:3 15741:39, 15742:34, 15691:36, 15693:17, 15738:3, 15740:9,
15726:42
old-fashioned [1] - 15746:11, 15747:1 15693:18, 15695:22, 15744:10, 15744:18,
otherwise [7] -
15731:7 one's [2] - 15734:3, 15701:21, 15702:18, 15744:44
15664:43, 15665:14,
older [2] - 15656:21, 15738:25 15707:30, 15707:41, parents' [1] -
15704:11, 15709:16,
15687:18 one-witness [1] - 15712:37, 15729:40, 15712:1, 15712:2, 15730:10
Once [1] - 15649:43 15705:42 15736:33 15713:40, 15716:25, parishioners [1] -
once [9] - 15643:44, ones [7] - 15674:20, ourselves [1] - 15717:7, 15717:22, 15664:25
15660:26, 15665:33, 15682:24, 15683:15, 15688:45 15718:28, 15738:1, part [20] - 15660:29,
15692:9, 15692:19, 15683:35, 15695:45, 15747:11 15660:32, 15672:30,
outcome [6] -
15713:20, 15714:13, 15697:11, 15722:36 paid [1] - 15736:5 15672:35, 15675:3,
15651:31, 15713:22,
15714:14 onwards [1] - 15713:26, 15734:38, paragraph [49] - 15675:25, 15678:47,
one [103] - 15643:18, 15713:40 15735:16, 15735:20 15643:1, 15644:45, 15679:41, 15687:25,
15643:19, 15643:27, open [8] - 15676:46, outcomes [4] - 15645:2, 15645:35, 15690:30, 15699:43,
15644:5, 15645:2, 15690:2, 15698:4, 15700:34, 15706:47, 15648:34, 15650:15, 15710:2, 15713:44,
15645:16, 15645:35, 15703:4, 15705:25, 15707:2, 15713:19 15652:12, 15652:13, 15714:9, 15715:32,
15645:38, 15646:19, 15705:34, 15729:24, 15652:19, 15653:11, 15725:3, 15726:32,
outline [4] - 15687:3,
15646:21, 15647:31, 15738:42 15659:44, 15661:36, 15737:36, 15739:47,
15702:6, 15702:8,
15649:27, 15649:28, opened [3] - 15705:1 15670:19, 15670:24, 15741:26
15650:43, 15650:47, 15658:42, 15658:43, 15671:24, 15672:31, participate [4] -
OUTLINE [1] -
15656:21, 15656:23, 15659:15 15672:47, 15673:20, 15674:33, 15674:47,
15702:13
15658:25, 15658:31, opening [4] - 15673:24, 15680:17, 15675:7, 15722:16
outside [4] - 15689:2,
.04/08/2015 (152) 19
participating [2] - people [29] - 15655:2, 15717:38 pieces [1] - 15731:12 15736:20, 15743:17,
15673:42, 15674:25 15656:5, 15656:11, person [48] - pioneer [15] - 15744:7, 15746:8,
particular [29] - 15656:20, 15666:29, 15643:19, 15664:3, 15724:28, 15724:31, 15746:27
15644:9, 15650:27, 15677:20, 15679:18, 15666:19, 15668:20, 15725:10, 15725:13, pointed [1] - 15742:47
15654:26, 15657:22, 15679:42, 15679:44, 15668:26, 15668:29, 15725:18, 15725:21, pointing [4] - 15715:8,
15658:6, 15658:10, 15680:31, 15685:45, 15674:14, 15677:10, 15725:23, 15725:25, 15715:16, 15715:40,
15658:12, 15658:16, 15694:24, 15698:32, 15677:28, 15678:29, 15726:20, 15726:27, 15718:27
15658:17, 15658:20, 15699:40, 15699:41, 15679:26, 15679:45, 15726:32, 15727:31, points [3] - 15678:1,
15659:3, 15659:14, 15704:47, 15711:27, 15680:12, 15680:45, 15728:10, 15728:15 15688:2, 15697:21
15663:4, 15671:14, 15711:42, 15715:35, 15684:36, 15693:29, pioneers [2] - police [40] - 15662:3,
15671:43, 15678:24, 15719:4, 15719:7, 15693:30, 15697:3, 15724:26, 15724:34 15664:15, 15664:17,
15678:28, 15687:42, 15724:41, 15725:7, 15697:4, 15697:5, pivotal [2] - 15683:7, 15664:44, 15665:15,
15695:21, 15695:24, 15728:36, 15728:37, 15697:30, 15703:11, 15698:44 15668:37, 15709:11,
15698:31, 15703:41, 15728:43, 15734:33, 15707:5, 15716:7, place [7] - 15660:29, 15710:20, 15717:33,
15704:41, 15707:43, 15737:8, 15743:8 15720:23, 15725:37, 15708:41, 15711:32, 15717:39, 15720:25,
15715:40, 15717:25, people's [3] - 15726:4, 15726:16, 15714:30, 15724:35, 15720:33, 15720:38,
15723:11, 15725:9 15714:27, 15724:38, 15726:18, 15726:46, 15736:19, 15746:30 15727:27, 15735:6,
particularly [5] - 15728:43 15727:12, 15727:35, Place [1] - 15640:28 15735:16, 15735:25,
15657:26, 15668:35, per [3] - 15643:26, 15728:1, 15729:16, placed [1] - 15742:20 15735:40, 15735:46,
15676:30, 15676:44, 15655:10, 15715:31 15733:40, 15734:10, places [1] - 15684:42 15736:3, 15736:14,
15695:44 percentage [2] - 15734:15, 15735:39, plain [4] - 15677:5, 15736:16, 15736:24,
party [5] - 15701:34, 15719:3, 15719:5 15735:46, 15736:4, 15677:6, 15681:19, 15736:32, 15736:34,
15702:44, 15703:11, perfect [1] - 15737:12 15736:14, 15736:31, 15734:23 15736:40, 15738:6,
15703:19, 15703:21 perfectly [1] - 15736:37, 15737:4, plainly [1] - 15745:9 15738:29, 15741:23,
pass [1] - 15677:26 15706:45 15739:45, 15740:13, planned [1] - 15741:26, 15741:27,
passage [1] - 15743:3 perhaps [34] - 15742:17 15720:32 15741:29, 15741:32,
passed [1] - 15717:2 15641:42, 15651:14, person's [2] - platform [2] - 15741:37, 15742:6,
passing [1] - 15656:26, 15657:34, 15644:21, 15678:32 15722:17, 15723:7 15742:41, 15742:42,
15661:13 15658:8, 15658:13, personal [16] - plea [1] - 15649:25 15742:44, 15744:20
passionately [1] - 15664:23, 15667:13, 15655:11, 15662:25, pleaded [1] - 15649:1 policemen [1] -
15662:40 15670:20, 15675:44, 15673:31, 15673:44, pleases [2] - 15641:1, 15741:20
past [8] - 15642:8, 15679:12, 15679:32, 15674:7, 15674:27, 15682:6 policies [8] -
15648:42, 15665:9, 15681:20, 15686:37, 15674:36, 15674:39, point [62] - 15641:36, 15676:24, 15676:30,
15672:33, 15674:19, 15689:47, 15692:8, 15674:42, 15675:2, 15650:13, 15661:42, 15676:32, 15676:44,
15718:29, 15718:31, 15692:38, 15697:6, 15675:6, 15710:17, 15663:22, 15670:11, 15676:46, 15687:38,
15729:8 15697:7, 15698:16, 15715:27, 15715:29, 15670:16, 15670:18, 15692:45, 15740:45
pattern [1] - 15672:42 15701:14, 15703:14, 15747:19, 15747:24 15672:26, 15672:30, policy [5] - 15684:36,
Paul [1] - 15723:3 15704:9, 15705:47, personally [4] - 15673:19, 15674:37, 15738:32, 15738:38,
peace [2] - 15722:34, 15707:22, 15713:16, 15670:32, 15671:31, 15675:16, 15676:28, 15739:47, 15741:35
15723:2 15713:46, 15716:5, 15691:29, 15730:13 15677:17, 15678:23, political [2] -
Pencheff [15] - 15718:7, 15726:35, persons [7] - 15680:14, 15681:7, 15699:12, 15699:15
15641:2, 15641:4, 15726:38, 15730:19, 15644:21, 15678:1, 15683:27, 15684:39, poorly [2] - 15682:18,
15641:8, 15641:21, 15731:28, 15736:37 15705:2, 15741:12, 15685:39, 15686:12, 15694:45
15641:23, 15642:18, period [10] - 15642:14, 15741:14, 15744:8, 15687:42, 15688:2, pops [1] - 15687:40
15642:29, 15642:47, 15644:8, 15672:42, 15744:45 15688:5, 15688:29, porneia [1] - 15647:6
15647:41, 15648:16, 15702:31, 15702:34, perspective [2] - 15688:43, 15689:40, pornography [3] -
15650:4, 15650:30, 15704:41, 15714:36, 15660:43, 15736:21 15689:45, 15692:25, 15664:18, 15664:19,
15651:14, 15651:47, 15718:19, 15718:24, Peter [2] - 15640:37, 15694:3, 15694:4, 15713:11
15653:26 15718:38 15654:1 15694:14, 15694:32, portion [1] - 15661:44
PENCHEFF [5] - permanent [2] - PETER [3] - 15653:42, 15696:8, 15697:7, posed [1] - 15738:2
15641:6, 15641:10, 15735:29, 15735:30 15654:18, 15720:10 15697:18, 15698:26, position [17] -
15641:15, 15641:17, permitted [6] - phone [3] - 15662:34, 15698:40, 15699:47, 15654:26, 15654:40,
15642:4 15661:29, 15682:30, 15671:41, 15736:13 15700:13, 15708:46, 15660:41, 15669:3,
pending [1] - 15722:38, 15738:33, photocopied [1] - 15714:23, 15714:41, 15669:19, 15672:11,
15735:20 15741:38, 15742:10 15687:19 15715:5, 15715:23, 15677:14, 15681:32,
Pennsylvania [1] - perpetrator [2] - phrase [1] - 15723:5 15715:25, 15715:27, 15684:45, 15687:44,
15695:24 15643:19, 15698:7 physically [1] - 15721:3, 15721:12, 15706:3, 15710:36,
Penrith [1] - 15657:17 perpetrators [5] - 15658:43 15723:5, 15727:7, 15717:4, 15718:46,
pensions [1] - 15643:6, 15643:12, picked [3] - 15684:10, 15729:20, 15730:9, 15720:31, 15728:14,
15736:6 15643:17, 15643:26, 15723:25, 15736:14 15731:25, 15732:10, 15746:18
.04/08/2015 (152) 20
positions [2] - 15655:6 primarily [4] - 15676:24, 15676:31, 15674:17, 15674:26,
15655:3, 15742:21 preparation [1] - 15659:16, 15660:45, 15676:32, 15676:45, 15675:1, 15716:9
positive [1] - 15728:24 15657:2 15683:36, 15693:10 15676:46, 15683:19, professionally [1] -
positively [3] - prepare [2] - primary [3] - 15687:38, 15714:46 15686:37
15744:13, 15744:15, 15676:38, 15690:46 15645:41, 15657:27, proceed [2] - professor [1] -
15744:17 prepared [2] - 15688:16 15649:16, 15708:19 15640:38
possibilities [1] - 15649:34, 15650:46 principle [5] - proceeding [3] - programs [3] -
15676:45 prescribe [1] - 15648:5, 15691:35, 15649:45, 15711:45, 15714:30, 15716:16,
possibility [9] - 15700:25 15700:23, 15700:36, 15736:25 15716:17
15676:31, 15698:42, present [17] - 15705:32 proceedings [2] - prohibit [1] - 15726:31
15699:4, 15733:46, 15645:41, 15677:1, principles [23] - 15643:6, 15724:5 prohibited [1] -
15734:14, 15734:16, 15677:14, 15678:27, 15672:42, 15673:38, process [59] - 15726:19
15734:17, 15734:44, 15678:29, 15684:17, 15674:12, 15675:30, 15661:6, 15661:9, promise [1] -
15734:47 15693:26, 15693:30, 15675:33, 15682:11, 15664:31, 15664:36, 15721:31
possible [5] - 15694:12, 15694:40, 15682:28, 15682:29, 15666:37, 15677:7, pronouncing [1] -
15643:43, 15648:38, 15696:28, 15703:4, 15683:20, 15683:41, 15677:9, 15680:9, 15738:19
15658:27, 15707:1, 15709:33, 15709:36, 15686:14, 15686:15, 15680:22, 15680:23, proper [1] - 15701:6
15719:43 15728:37, 15728:38, 15691:29, 15699:24, 15680:31, 15680:36, properly [2] - 15702:4,
posted [1] - 15670:47 15737:9 15700:45, 15709:20, 15681:31, 15682:9, 15746:38
potential [3] - presentations [1] - 15710:38, 15713:10, 15685:18, 15685:37, property [1] -
15648:10, 15648:11, 15722:17 15720:42, 15727:21, 15687:7, 15690:8, 15657:28
15740:36 presented [12] - 15727:23, 15743:20, 15690:31, 15693:47, proposition [6] -
power [5] - 15714:27, 15643:5, 15646:43, 15743:22 15697:33, 15698:27, 15665:47, 15694:38,
15730:19, 15730:20, 15673:22, 15685:28, printed [4] - 15661:7, 15698:43, 15699:5, 15732:2, 15736:30,
15730:30, 15745:35 15687:3, 15693:38, 15687:21, 15687:34, 15699:7, 15704:26, 15737:9, 15737:13
practicalities [1] - 15696:30, 15704:32, 15721:19 15704:30, 15705:15, prosecuted [1] -
15733:14 15704:47, 15705:2, printery [1] - 15656:44 15705:38, 15706:1, 15644:46
practicality [1] - 15706:44, 15718:11 printing [2] - 15706:9, 15706:10, prosecution [2] -
15735:3 presenting [3] - 15656:46, 15695:25 15706:29, 15706:37, 15667:18, 15739:39
practically [1] - 15663:42, 15687:3, prison [8] - 15664:3, 15707:2, 15707:15, prospect [1] -
15690:6 15704:40 15700:21, 15714:30, 15713:20, 15714:9, 15734:42
practice [8] - preside [1] - 15730:6 15714:36, 15714:39, 15714:46, 15718:1, protect [8] - 15648:10,
15665:13, 15675:39, presiding [4] - 15714:44, 15731:38, 15720:46, 15721:3, 15660:30, 15660:45,
15695:9, 15707:6, 15644:5, 15644:10, 15743:9 15725:23, 15727:5, 15672:4, 15740:12,
15707:9, 15722:20, 15729:17, 15729:28 private [2] - 15676:21, 15727:14, 15727:39, 15745:8, 15746:39
15736:12, 15744:33 presses [1] - 15656:46 15679:40 15728:34, 15728:35, protected [2] -
practices [2] - pressing [1] - privilege [2] - 15732:44, 15732:47, 15669:21, 15745:10
15675:40, 15729:4 15650:32 15692:37, 15692:38 15733:6, 15733:39, protection [2] -
practising [1] - presumably [1] - probable [1] - 15710:5 15734:13, 15735:38, 15710:13, 15737:12
15742:34 15691:34 problem [10] - 15736:15, 15737:22,
proved [2] - 15736:9,
practitioner [1] - pretend [1] - 15734:45 15677:34, 15679:19, 15745:11, 15746:12,
15737:38
15673:34 pretty [4] - 15672:23, 15679:30, 15681:6, 15746:15
proverbs [1] -
pre [1] - 15705:18 15692:5, 15737:3, 15686:18, 15686:22, processes [10] -
15740:16
preach [2] - 15724:30, 15740:46 15742:5, 15742:6, 15665:5, 15677:17,
provide [9] -
15724:34 prevail [3] - 15700:6, 15742:7 15677:19, 15685:33,
15648:39, 15649:34,
15700:18, 15700:19 procedure [22] - 15715:12, 15715:46,
preaches [1] - 15650:19, 15661:15,
prevention [2] - 15678:43, 15682:10, 15739:38, 15740:36,
15724:28 15661:17, 15686:32,
15736:44, 15737:34 15682:28, 15683:41, 15742:38, 15746:38
preaching [5] - 15717:28, 15728:1,
previous [4] - 15684:37, 15689:41, procure [1] - 15676:19
15721:35, 15722:3, 15745:27
15646:19, 15687:16, 15690:8, 15690:41, produce [2] -
15723:9, 15723:21, provided [12] -
15725:19 15705:6, 15728:44 15691:13, 15692:4, 15687:28, 15688:18
15641:32, 15654:41,
precautions [1] - previously [8] - 15693:19, 15693:36, produced [6] -
15664:12, 15672:41,
15737:23 15650:10, 15670:23, 15700:45, 15700:46, 15687:25, 15687:43, 15673:2, 15698:21,
15673:19, 15691:37, 15704:43, 15705:5, 15689:4, 15691:19, 15698:25, 15704:12,
precisely [1] -
15704:30, 15713:6, 15705:8, 15705:24, 15691:24, 15691:25 15726:35, 15727:21,
15746:43
15721:5, 15721:46 15720:46, 15735:5, professed [1] - 15733:41, 15745:26
preferred [1] -
pride [1] - 15664:7 15735:10, 15740:1 15651:3 provides [4] -
15709:31
priest [2] - 15721:47, Procedure" [1] - professional [8] - 15655:2, 15666:31,
prejudiced [1] -
15723:21 15704:22 15673:4, 15673:28, 15673:36, 15675:28
15653:1
priests [1] - 15716:15 procedures [8] - 15673:43, 15674:10, psychiatric [3] -
premises [1] -
.04/08/2015 (152) 21
15674:15, 15675:41, pursues [1] - 15720:16 15667:3, 15734:9
R
15716:9 15673:30 real [2] - 15711:39, recognise [2] -
psychiatrists [3] - put [28] - 15647:5, radical [1] - 15675:44 15731:47 15665:33, 15728:42
15673:30, 15674:8, 15651:8, 15661:4, raise [2] - 15684:38, realisation [2] - recognised [3] -
15741:15 15663:5, 15664:21, 15744:11 15705:11 15686:38, 15721:18,
psychological [1] - 15665:47, 15667:33, raised [9] - 15652:43, realise [1] - 15681:27 15739:26
15675:41 15668:8, 15668:36, 15678:11, 15698:35, realistically [1] - recollection [6] -
psychologists [5] - 15672:43, 15675:21, 15704:30, 15706:8, 15663:28 15643:2, 15655:44,
15673:31, 15674:8, 15675:22, 15676:37, 15716:42, 15717:5, reality [2] - 15662:34, 15733:8, 15745:1,
15714:8, 15741:16, 15679:28, 15679:33, 15742:38, 15744:40 15669:47 15745:24, 15745:43
15744:8 15686:42, 15687:39, raises [1] - 15688:5 really [11] - 15659:13, recollections [2] -
Public [1] - 15640:22 15698:13, 15704:1, raising [3] - 15697:15, 15671:19, 15671:21, 15730:43, 15745:21
public [9] - 15645:14, 15704:8, 15712:43, 15697:20, 15697:38 15681:20, 15685:24, recommendations [3]
15649:25, 15649:37, 15716:38, 15731:43, rape [3] - 15698:1, 15685:41, 15717:44, - 15665:20,
15673:22, 15722:3, 15731:45, 15733:20, 15728:8, 15728:13 15718:15, 15723:10, 15688:44, 15740:43
15724:28, 15724:34, 15745:42, 15747:1, rapport [1] - 15741:27 15744:22, 15745:26 recommending [1] -
15728:43, 15729:9 15747:35 rare [4] - 15643:4, reason [17] - 15664:6, 15673:33
publication [5] - puts [2] - 15685:18, 15643:28, 15707:7, 15664:32, 15666:37, record [8] - 15645:14,
15665:26, 15673:21, 15727:12 15736:2 15672:10, 15673:12, 15646:3, 15649:25,
15692:15, 15711:10, rarely [1] - 15736:10 15677:38, 15677:40, 15649:37, 15651:46,
15716:27 Q rather [12] - 15647:7, 15693:5, 15696:21, 15686:9, 15728:8,
publications [8] - 15648:8, 15648:11, 15704:32, 15709:38, 15744:6
15672:37, 15673:36, qualified [1] - 15675:21, 15677:17, 15711:1, 15719:12, recorded [4] -
15675:28, 15675:43, 15667:11 15677:35, 15695:38, 15723:1, 15725:17, 15647:21, 15664:6,
15684:32, 15711:3, qualify [1] - 15713:46 15696:13, 15700:29, 15733:2, 15733:9 15690:36, 15704:13
15714:32, 15737:2 quantify [1] - 15722:38, 15737:45, reasonable [1] - recording [1] -
publicly [2] - 15725:16 15743:6 15709:43 15658:38
15712:31, 15724:30 Queensland [3] - re [2] - 15698:19, reasonably [1] - records [3] -
publish [5] - 15642:30, 15656:2, 15741:9 15705:28 15664:24, 15727:28,
15688:13, 15688:35, 15739:35 re-examination [1] - reasoned [1] - 15727:41
15689:37, 15691:12, questioned [1] - 15741:9 15699:37 recounted [1] -
15692:4 15647:12 re-read [1] - 15698:19 reasoning [1] - 15747:33
published [9] - questions [19] - read [39] - 15641:31, 15740:38 redacted [1] -
15661:16, 15683:27, 15649:46, 15651:36, 15646:24, 15648:24, reasons [12] - 15719:29
15687:35, 15688:9, 15651:38, 15671:45, 15650:4, 15650:6, 15646:15, 15646:31, redirect [1] - 15703:6
15690:8, 15695:22, 15673:6, 15678:33, 15650:12, 15650:16, 15647:25, 15651:5, reduced [1] -
15695:24, 15697:46, 15695:44, 15697:19, 15661:23, 15661:24, 15665:32, 15669:7, 15687:19
15719:30 15704:29, 15721:25, 15662:21, 15665:24, 15669:8, 15676:22, reevaluate [1] -
publisher [1] - 15723:18, 15723:45, 15665:25, 15670:46, 15676:36, 15692:7, 15746:40
15675:2 15724:26, 15725:35, 15673:20, 15674:38, 15728:20, 15736:4 refer [11] - 15657:12,
publishers [5] - 15726:5, 15732:19, 15674:44, 15675:17, recalled [1] - 15641:33 15657:38, 15658:3,
15642:37, 15670:43, 15740:5, 15743:25, 15675:18, 15675:21, receipt [1] - 15659:13 15661:26, 15661:34,
15670:46, 15672:13, 15743:40 15682:30, 15682:45, receive [1] - 15720:36 15675:40, 15682:31,
15688:19 quibbling [1] - 15698:19, 15700:10, received [10] - 15683:38, 15696:14,
publishing [1] - 15717:43 15703:39, 15708:2, 15652:46, 15653:7, 15711:9, 15711:16
15689:41 quicker [1] - 15731:26 15710:47, 15711:5, 15659:17, 15667:8, reference [18] -
pulpit [4] - 15721:47, quickly [1] - 15711:9 15720:40, 15722:23, 15670:14, 15674:20, 15644:25, 15650:15,
15723:7, 15723:15, quite [5] - 15641:40, 15722:46, 15722:47, 15676:20, 15676:35, 15661:30, 15671:39,
15723:22 15662:39, 15667:21, 15729:21, 15730:1, 15720:29, 15720:31 15672:44, 15675:10,
punishment [4] - 15710:5, 15725:14 15733:26, 15738:43, receives [2] - 15675:43, 15682:23,
15734:4, 15734:19, quotation [1] - 15742:10, 15742:14, 15666:44, 15679:45 15683:19, 15684:7,
15734:27, 15734:42 15652:33 15743:5 receiving [2] - 15693:43, 15709:29,
purpose [1] - quote [2] - 15670:36, reading [7] - 15668:20, 15680:9 15711:10, 15716:25,
15742:32 15671:2 15661:44, 15674:35, recent [8] - 15658:23, 15717:13, 15718:31,
purposes [2] - quoted [1] - 15721:5 15698:4, 15717:6, 15666:21, 15668:39, 15723:25, 15741:35
15678:31, 15707:42 quotes [2] - 15683:31, 15718:27, 15718:28, 15672:44, 15685:37, referenced [2] -
pursue [2] - 15708:24, 15684:3 15730:14 15700:15, 15704:3, 15683:28, 15691:8
15708:27 reads [3] - 15653:5, 15704:5 references [14] -
pursued [1] - 15737:1 recently [4] - 15673:40, 15675:37,
15709:45 ready [2] - 15698:7, 15644:46, 15656:7, 15684:25, 15684:30,
.04/08/2015 (152) 22
15684:32, 15684:42, 15724:31, 15724:34, 15714:30, 15714:39, reply [2] - 15676:20, request [4] -
15685:7, 15685:16, 15725:10, 15725:13, 15714:43, 15715:33 15676:35 15680:11, 15708:30,
15685:27, 15689:6, 15725:18, 15725:21, relevant [6] - report [35] - 15652:24, 15720:13, 15735:24
15700:9, 15716:38, 15725:22, 15725:25, 15668:31, 15676:25, 15660:19, 15662:2, requests [1] -
15723:35, 15747:35 15726:20, 15726:27, 15677:21, 15683:35, 15662:24, 15662:31, 15679:44
referencing [1] - 15726:32, 15727:31, 15693:21, 15694:22 15663:18, 15665:15, require [5] - 15685:43,
15685:3 15728:10, 15728:15 reliable [2] - 15665:38, 15666:20, 15698:5, 15706:30,
referred [8] - regularly [1] - 15685:6 15720:29, 15720:31 15667:1, 15667:34, 15727:47, 15742:42
15675:42, 15684:11, rehabilitated [3] - religious [4] - 15667:43, 15668:37, required [21] -
15688:6, 15690:41, 15714:29, 15714:40, 15665:24, 15665:35, 15669:2, 15669:7, 15665:38, 15671:7,
15691:5, 15705:10, 15715:36 15675:39, 15721:40 15669:11, 15671:5, 15676:38, 15678:15,
15708:18, 15741:40 rehabilitation [1] - religiously [1] - 15671:10, 15671:43, 15679:25, 15681:8,
referring [13] - 15714:33 15665:31 15677:28, 15677:29, 15685:2, 15686:20,
15648:32, 15661:7, reinforce [1] - reluctant [1] - 15680:47, 15681:8, 15690:16, 15697:41,
15661:28, 15682:36, 15669:18 15708:36 15684:46, 15710:13, 15701:4, 15701:37,
15682:38, 15699:21, reinstated [4] - rely [1] - 15684:21 15718:47, 15719:11, 15702:47, 15703:19,
15701:16, 15704:19, 15643:39, 15644:42, remain [1] - 15737:31 15720:25, 15720:32, 15710:30, 15711:31,
15711:4, 15717:45, 15651:32, 15658:39 remains [5] - 15720:36, 15720:38, 15711:44, 15727:30,
15730:22, 15741:43, reinstatement [1] - 15662:12, 15669:9, 15743:11, 15745:43, 15739:45, 15740:4,
15741:45 15651:26 15669:19, 15710:36, 15747:18, 15747:23 15740:14
reflect [1] - 15677:45 reinstating [1] - 15714:36 reported [7] - requirement [16] -
reflects [1] - 15644:29 15707:11 remember [3] - 15660:46, 15663:16, 15660:43, 15688:24,
refuse [1] - 15740:18 reiterated [1] - 15642:19, 15736:5, 15663:21, 15667:10, 15688:46, 15691:8,
refused [3] - 15676:36 15741:17 15667:14, 15678:25, 15705:35, 15706:11,
15700:31, 15740:27, reject [1] - 15732:12 remembering [4] - 15709:21 15706:20, 15706:25,
15740:32 relate [7] - 15656:30, 15661:11, 15684:25, reporting [20] - 15706:40, 15706:45,
refuses [1] - 15712:18 15660:38, 15662:35, 15689:18, 15727:8 15660:3, 15660:22, 15707:1, 15709:35,
refusing [1] - 15663:41, 15663:42, remind [1] - 15662:17 15660:33, 15660:38, 15711:19, 15712:17,
15715:35 15718:37, 15734:7 reminded [3] - 15660:39, 15665:12, 15727:32, 15737:19
regard [26] - related [4] - 15657:47, 15641:38, 15709:2, 15665:21, 15665:34, requirements [10] -
15647:11, 15650:36, 15659:39, 15676:36, 15738:45 15665:40, 15666:15, 15660:3, 15660:23,
15651:4, 15651:11, 15718:44 remove [1] - 15648:9 15668:41, 15671:22, 15660:33, 15665:40,
15651:24, 15660:14, relates [3] - 15658:31, removing [1] - 15688:47, 15690:16, 15691:3, 15692:47,
15660:39, 15661:8, 15660:40, 15737:19 15707:5 15692:47, 15720:21, 15693:1, 15713:38,
15668:41, 15670:9, relation [29] - reoffend [1] - 15720:46, 15721:1, 15743:26, 15743:32
15673:9, 15676:44, 15646:28, 15646:44, 15714:32 15740:44, 15743:20 requires [6] -
15678:10, 15682:26, 15647:6, 15648:16, reoffending [2] - reports [12] - 15677:28, 15686:13,
15683:27, 15707:1, 15657:29, 15658:38, 15713:45, 15714:8 15662:29, 15667:13, 15690:29, 15693:7,
15708:30, 15708:47, 15660:3, 15660:21, repeat [9] - 15643:14, 15667:14, 15682:9, 15711:15, 15741:36
15711:32, 15713:47, 15660:29, 15660:37, 15662:37, 15668:5, 15683:21, 15696:26, requiring [1] -
15716:42, 15737:31, 15667:39, 15668:36, 15668:6, 15687:45, 15714:7, 15718:23, 15677:40
15741:29, 15742:36, 15671:41, 15676:24, 15704:44, 15728:11, 15718:35, 15718:36, reread [1] - 15696:32
15743:19, 15744:15 15676:30, 15678:5, 15738:39, 15739:9 15718:40, 15719:2 research [1] -
regarded [4] - 15678:6, 15683:26, repeated [1] - represent [9] - 15685:27
15689:41, 15721:15, 15687:34, 15713:19, 15705:35 15651:47, 15658:30, researchers [1] -
15721:17, 15743:27 15715:10, 15718:17, repeatedly [4] - 15678:1, 15683:33, 15716:35
regarding [5] - 15719:11, 15731:17, 15669:17, 15669:31, 15724:5, 15732:24, reside [2] - 15657:11,
15650:17, 15673:37, 15735:4, 15736:44, 15709:4, 15739:2 15741:11, 15744:6, 15717:41
15675:29, 15694:23, 15743:19, 15745:4, 15744:36 resisted [1] -
repentance [7] -
15708:5 15747:6 representing [5] - 15686:18
15713:27, 15713:30,
regardless [2] - relationship [2] - 15713:34, 15713:38, 15659:1, 15659:2, resolved [2] -
15665:34, 15743:12 15731:46, 15741:32 15713:45, 15714:3, 15717:3, 15717:23, 15650:33, 15736:8
regards [2] - relative [2] - 15689:4, 15734:10 15746:28 resolving [1] -
15711:46, 15738:3 15742:20 repentant [3] - reproval [1] - 15666:36
regime [2] - 15700:32, relatively [2] - 15707:12, 15734:6, 15713:30 resounding [1] -
15746:30 15672:33, 15739:24 15734:46 reproved [1] - 15734:4 15722:9
regions [1] - 15657:8 relay [1] - 15739:14 repenting [1] - reproving [1] - respect [34] -
regret [1] - 15714:3 relaying [1] - 15707:11 15707:9 15643:11, 15643:16,
regular [16] - 15733:44 repents [2] - 15734:3, reputation [1] - 15646:20, 15646:37,
15724:26, 15724:28, released [5] - 15734:20 15721:38 15647:38, 15663:31,
.04/08/2015 (152) 23
15663:33, 15668:25, 15663:30 15657:4, 15711:34 15711:19, 15711:22 searching [1] -
15671:33, 15671:36, resuming [1] - Rooy [1] - 15699:29 scope [3] - 15688:12, 15717:33
15673:20, 15674:11, 15676:7 rote [1] - 15661:24 15693:15, 15693:31 Second [1] - 15700:30
15674:12, 15677:36, return [2] - 15714:25, Royal [9] - 15641:26, screen [1] - 15707:23 second [30] -
15681:1, 15684:25, 15715:2 15654:4, 15676:15, scriptural [20] - 15644:17, 15644:18,
15686:1, 15686:46, returning [1] - 15676:27, 15679:41, 15681:2, 15691:2, 15644:45, 15645:2,
15689:13, 15690:19, 15725:4 15716:47, 15717:2, 15691:7, 15691:28, 15646:3, 15647:5,
15690:21, 15705:17, reveal [5] - 15674:34, 15717:24, 15718:12 15691:35, 15692:45, 15650:23, 15650:28,
15706:47, 15719:41, 15675:12, 15675:14, ROYAL [1] - 15640:17 15699:7, 15699:22, 15650:43, 15652:12,
15720:42, 15721:3, 15698:7 rule [7] - 15690:29, 15705:32, 15705:35, 15661:13, 15662:6,
15721:10, 15721:32, revealing [3] - 15691:4, 15701:2, 15705:40, 15706:45, 15671:2, 15680:25,
15721:38, 15731:31, 15674:1, 15674:28, 15705:43, 15706:4, 15707:1, 15707:8, 15680:38, 15694:35,
15735:25, 15735:33, 15674:40 15736:46, 15737:35 15707:9, 15709:29, 15701:21, 15702:18,
15744:23, 15744:25 reverse [1] - 15695:22 ruler [2] - 15700:29, 15720:41, 15721:42, 15702:24, 15707:42,
respected [1] - review [1] - 15717:36 15743:6 15740:17, 15741:35 15710:41, 15711:18,
15665:31 reviewed [1] - 15704:5 rules [4] - 15706:11, scripturally [10] - 15711:40, 15712:15,
respectfully [1] - revised [1] - 15707:44 15706:42, 15711:15, 15669:3, 15697:47, 15712:46, 15713:26,
15685:25 right-hand [1] - 15736:32 15698:44, 15698:47, 15716:28, 15717:18,
respecting [2] - 15658:40 rumour [1] - 15661:13 15706:2, 15706:8, 15719:15, 15719:36
15665:43, 15671:32 rightly [3] - 15715:28, run [4] - 15677:18, 15711:12, 15712:22, second-last [2] -
respective [1] - 15731:45, 15742:47 15731:13, 15742:5, 15721:33, 15722:1 15652:12, 15707:42
15717:40 Rights [1] - 15700:35 15742:8 scripture [11] - secondly [2] -
respects [2] - rights [5] - 15671:33, running [1] - 15685:45 15665:37, 15688:31, 15686:36, 15703:15
15666:34, 15691:2 15680:46, 15720:42, Russia [1] - 15700:21 15689:36, 15690:15, secretary [1] -
respond [4] - 15677:5, 15721:4, 15721:10 15690:28, 15700:7, 15659:40
15677:47, 15684:37, 15700:10, 15700:33,
ring [5] - 15663:1, S section [8] -
15700:16 15684:22, 15684:29, 15705:24, 15722:20, 15666:47, 15667:23,
responding [3] - 15684:33, 15692:21 S-337 [4] - 15702:5, 15730:16 15670:21, 15673:25,
15682:9, 15683:20, Ringtail [6] - 15702:9, 15702:14, scripture-based [1] - 15703:6, 15711:37,
15696:25 15661:30, 15673:18, 15702:37 15705:24 15712:4, 15712:21
responds [1] - 15682:44, 15695:22, S-66 [1] - 15727:22 scriptures [43] - secular [2] - 15680:46,
15683:42 15707:42, 15716:26 S-77 [2] - 15652:24, 15665:44, 15679:8, 15717:39
response [6] - risk [16] - 15677:18, 15658:37 15679:13, 15679:17, see [64] - 15643:9,
15666:25, 15670:21, 15685:45, 15713:45, safe [2] - 15670:29, 15683:7, 15683:17, 15644:17, 15644:25,
15677:44, 15680:41, 15714:8, 15715:11, 15677:9 15688:7, 15688:15, 15644:36, 15645:3,
15680:43, 15703:7 15715:47, 15728:33, safety [1] - 15670:21 15688:17, 15688:24, 15645:39, 15647:19,
RESPONSES [1] - 15728:36, 15728:40, sake [1] - 15739:8 15688:28, 15688:40, 15647:43, 15651:10,
15640:18 15728:43, 15729:7, salary [2] - 15654:41, 15689:17, 15689:22, 15653:37, 15658:36,
responses [1] - 15729:9, 15731:47, 15654:42 15689:25, 15689:28, 15659:45, 15666:1,
15703:4 15739:39, 15746:12 sanction [3] - 15689:31, 15689:42, 15666:36, 15668:42,
responsibilities [2] - road [1] - 15730:10 15666:19, 15667:9, 15690:13, 15690:18, 15668:47, 15670:20,
15654:29, 15663:17 robes [1] - 15697:9 15739:18 15690:22, 15690:40, 15670:36, 15670:40,
responsibility [7] - Rodney [2] - sanctioned [2] - 15690:42, 15690:47, 15672:5, 15672:24,
15654:37, 15657:21, 15653:34, 15654:1 15678:19, 15678:38 15693:5, 15693:8, 15672:47, 15674:37,
15665:23, 15673:33, RODNEY [3] - sanctions [2] - 15698:2, 15699:32, 15674:41, 15674:42,
15678:5, 15690:4, 15653:42, 15654:18, 15662:27, 15667:17 15699:39, 15701:1, 15677:33, 15679:16,
15721:8 15720:10 satisfaction [1] - 15701:5, 15706:16, 15683:13, 15685:35,
responsible [2] - 15739:6 15706:21, 15706:25, 15687:11, 15687:23,
role [19] - 15654:26,
15658:22, 15692:44 satisfy [1] - 15712:16 15706:30, 15706:39, 15687:35, 15688:2,
15657:27, 15678:5,
restate [1] - 15692:34 saw [2] - 15651:21, 15706:40, 15707:3, 15688:45, 15689:5,
15683:46, 15688:16,
restitution [1] - 15707:13, 15707:16, 15689:37, 15691:9,
15696:29, 15697:28, 15720:23
15714:38 15740:47, 15743:27, 15691:30, 15694:21,
15698:46, 15716:10, SC [1] - 15640:43
restricted [1] - 15743:33 15694:45, 15697:46,
15721:27, 15721:30, scenario [4] -
15715:2 15721:33, 15722:1, scroll [2] - 15670:20, 15699:39, 15702:24,
15667:41, 15668:46,
restrictions [1] - 15722:14, 15723:6, 15716:33 15703:7, 15704:8,
15703:20, 15703:47
15673:8 15724:26, 15725:9, scrolled [1] - 15704:22, 15705:34,
School [1] - 15724:7
result [4] - 15647:12, 15726:19, 15735:26 15707:43 15705:39, 15706:15,
science [4] - 15700:3,
15667:17, 15708:33, Romans [1] - SD [1] - 15657:44 15706:19, 15712:5,
15700:14, 15700:16,
15715:35 15742:13 SD" [1] - 15657:37 15715:30, 15715:37,
15715:10
resulted [1] - SD:SSA [1] - 15658:21 15716:26, 15717:15,
room [3] - 15655:7, scientific [2] -
.04/08/2015 (152) 24
15717:18, 15717:25, 15650:32, 15650:38, 15688:35, 15691:2, shepherding [1] - 15721:17, 15721:20,
15721:32, 15722:47, 15650:40, 15663:19, 15707:44, 15727:4, 15693:38 15721:21, 15729:8
15729:40, 15729:43, 15677:41, 15679:16, 15737:21 shield [1] - 15737:36 single [4] - 15685:5,
15732:6, 15747:14 15679:19, 15721:16, setting [12] - shipping [1] - 15689:7, 15712:11,
seek [7] - 15673:28, 15746:18 15676:44, 15695:3, 15656:46 15723:3
15682:23, 15727:28, seriously [1] - 15703:20, 15711:28, shocked [2] - sins [4] - 15712:31,
15727:40, 15733:34, 15746:37 15711:43, 15713:11, 15731:8, 15731:9 15740:17, 15740:18,
15743:36, 15745:3 seriousness [2] - 15714:6, 15730:12, shocking [1] - 15740:21
seeking [4] - 15651:3, 15729:33 15732:37, 15733:9, 15713:8 sister [4] - 15680:18,
15651:26, 15666:15, servant [2] - 15740:6, 15740:13 shop [1] - 15650:38 15680:19, 15696:34,
15672:29, 15681:9 15655:31, 15735:37 settings [1] - shopping [1] - 15698:16
seem [3] - 15682:19, servants [4] - 15703:24 15724:35 sisters [1] - 15723:14
15694:9, 15718:30 15654:45, 15664:16, seven [1] - 15642:34 short [7] - 15650:5, situation [32] -
selected [1] - 15718:19, 15718:25 several [4] - 15643:12, 15669:33, 15720:14, 15660:47, 15661:40,
15689:20 served [5] - 15642:26, 15643:17, 15671:45, 15721:31, 15726:33, 15662:13, 15662:37,
seminars [2] - 15642:32, 15642:44, 15733:25 15728:29, 15747:7 15662:39, 15663:5,
15683:32, 15688:19 15645:24, 15655:31 sex [1] - 15710:45 shortage [1] - 15668:38, 15669:17,
sending [1] - Service [2] - sexting [1] - 15713:10 15685:27 15669:26, 15669:31,
15728:43 15682:14, 15707:31 SEXUAL [1] - show [11] - 15672:32, 15677:33, 15677:45,
senior [3] - 15654:29, service [51] - 15640:18 15673:11, 15688:41, 15680:43, 15683:4,
15654:31, 15654:34 15644:22, 15644:33, sexual [44] - 15643:3, 15698:4, 15704:6, 15683:9, 15696:31,
sense [10] - 15671:37, 15644:34, 15645:28, 15643:7, 15646:21, 15711:42, 15712:23, 15704:8, 15705:13,
15675:11, 15675:15, 15654:28, 15654:29, 15649:26, 15650:33, 15716:43, 15727:29, 15721:47, 15723:11,
15679:8, 15697:43, 15654:31, 15654:33, 15650:36, 15651:9, 15735:12, 15741:39 15727:24, 15727:34,
15709:13, 15732:44, 15654:34, 15656:4, 15652:43, 15653:14, showing [1] - 15728:22, 15732:29,
15733:6, 15734:27, 15656:5, 15656:8, 15664:18, 15676:24, 15721:38 15733:32, 15733:43,
15737:35 15656:20, 15656:27, 15683:21, 15683:39, shown [1] - 15707:10 15734:32, 15736:2,
sensitive [3] - 15656:28, 15656:31, 15683:42, 15684:19, sic [2] - 15650:47, 15736:40, 15738:11,
15680:40, 15680:44, 15656:38, 15656:42, 15684:35, 15685:38, 15741:30 15738:16, 15744:28
15697:24 15657:22, 15657:25, 15688:36, 15693:30, side [4] - 15650:41, situations [6] -
sensitively [1] - 15657:30, 15657:32, 15698:15, 15700:15, 15670:7, 15670:8, 15669:31, 15686:3,
15700:11 15657:39, 15657:41, 15707:33, 15710:40, 15716:28 15705:12, 15726:37,
sensitivities [1] - 15659:34, 15659:41, 15711:32, 15711:41, signature [3] - 15726:40, 15734:33
15692:18 15660:4, 15660:9, 15713:1, 15713:5, 15646:8, 15647:20, six [5] - 15642:21,
sent [1] - 15645:32 15660:13, 15660:18, 15713:14, 15716:31, 15647:24 15702:5, 15702:31,
sentence [18] - 15660:24, 15660:27, 15717:32, 15718:19, signatures [1] - 15702:34, 15704:41
15645:39, 15650:5, 15661:2, 15662:5, 15718:25, 15721:15, 15647:19 six-month [3] -
15661:35, 15671:24, 15662:8, 15666:44, 15725:39, 15726:17, signed [2] - 15647:29, 15702:31, 15702:34,
15672:25, 15674:43, 15666:47, 15667:8, 15726:25, 15726:41, 15647:31 15704:41
15674:46, 15675:11, 15667:16, 15667:44, 15727:36, 15733:44, significance [1] - six-monthly [1] -
15682:30, 15682:46, 15669:11, 15669:44, 15735:4, 15736:13, 15672:9 15702:5
15683:7, 15694:26, 15670:1, 15676:34, 15737:7, 15737:17, significant [7] - skeptical [1] -
15694:35, 15694:36, 15695:9, 15707:36, 15739:42 15656:45, 15677:31, 15716:35
15694:44, 15694:47, 15714:20, 15741:25, sexually [8] - 15677:32, 15678:42, small [2] - 15656:28,
15703:30, 15738:33 15741:36 15644:46, 15645:11, 15681:20, 15685:42, 15677:32
sentenced [1] - services [2] - 15657:3, 15649:1, 15649:22, 15696:8 social [2] - 15699:11,
15649:38 15717:34 15649:27, 15650:7, silent [1] - 15722:36 15699:15
separate [3] - serving [1] - 15654:33 15677:10, 15679:18 similar [2] - 15656:22, Society [4] -
15652:27, 15656:37, sessions [3] - SF [2] - 15659:33, 15723:35 15671:28, 15677:1,
15710:32 15674:3, 15674:30, 15659:41 similarly [1] - 15695:23, 15741:11
separately [2] - 15679:41 shall [1] - 15721:8 15659:27 society [3] - 15699:20,
15656:39, 15657:13 set [14] - 15645:1, shared [1] - 15703:14 simplified [1] - 15700:11, 15715:46
September [1] - 15647:26, 15679:13, sharing [1] - 15723:9 15734:5 solution [2] -
15702:31 15688:13, 15688:18, shepherd [1] - simply [9] - 15648:39, 15677:35, 15715:32
September/October 15688:39, 15690:41, 15683:16 15660:40, 15661:7, someone [15] -
[1] - 15656:1 15692:30, 15695:5, Shepherd [8] - 15661:9, 15672:40, 15663:19, 15664:38,
sequentially [1] - 15707:12, 15713:39, 15661:27, 15672:16, 15686:31, 15689:19, 15667:41, 15677:11,
15685:2 15716:16, 15727:17, 15682:12, 15691:35, 15696:1, 15728:7 15686:20, 15698:16,
series [1] - 15729:24 15729:14 15693:17, 15712:1, 15703:41, 15711:24,
sin [7] - 15703:14,
serious [9] - sets [6] - 15646:15, 15713:39, 15747:11 15721:15, 15721:16, 15714:28, 15716:4,
.04/08/2015 (152) 25
15718:7, 15720:23, specifics [1] - staff [2] - 15656:40, 15745:9 15715:5
15724:31, 15726:24, 15736:39 15716:46 STATEMENT [3] - stick [1] - 15730:33
15739:42 spells [1] - 15705:44 staffed [1] - 15657:5 15642:4, 15654:18, still [14] - 15643:27,
sometimes [2] - spelt [1] - 15705:7 stage [9] - 15648:39, 15720:10 15658:25, 15668:39,
15657:44, 15659:39 spend [1] - 15725:18 15687:2, 15696:25, statements [2] - 15668:40, 15672:22,
somewhat [2] - spent [1] - 15692:7 15697:23, 15698:38, 15641:3, 15652:45 15673:7, 15679:4,
15672:1, 15718:3 Spinks [49] - 15704:18, 15708:19, States [6] - 15660:23, 15684:20, 15700:5,
somewhere [4] - 15653:34, 15653:36, 15727:32 15663:17, 15691:26, 15708:24, 15709:42,
15684:18, 15687:40, 15653:46, 15654:1, stamp [3] - 15658:41, 15692:36, 15692:46, 15714:36, 15733:44,
15690:23, 15744:22 15654:22, 15662:45, 15659:13, 15659:16 15717:40 15735:46
son [1] - 15730:23 15666:43, 15667:40, stamped [1] - stating [4] - 15663:12, stipend [1] - 15655:9
soon [2] - 15727:7, 15669:38, 15674:22, 15658:44 15705:14, 15705:17, stole [1] - 15650:37
15727:12 15676:8, 15682:2, stand [5] - 15721:42, 15729:19 stood [1] - 15735:15
sorry [16] - 15643:14, 15682:8, 15685:11, 15723:6, 15742:20, statistics [1] - stop [2] - 15714:33,
15644:17, 15659:4, 15692:25, 15694:2, 15742:22, 15742:24 15664:10 15715:1
15684:14, 15692:40, 15694:20, 15695:16, standards [1] - step [12] - 15667:16, store [1] - 15711:37
15694:20, 15703:17, 15695:21, 15696:43, 15740:31 15680:25, 15680:41, story [8] - 15652:25,
15707:4, 15712:42, 15700:42, 15700:45, standing [6] - 15680:44, 15686:4, 15677:24, 15677:25,
15723:20, 15730:36, 15701:13, 15701:17, 15722:13, 15726:10, 15690:6, 15698:36, 15679:43, 15679:46,
15733:29, 15738:24, 15702:4, 15702:30, 15726:18, 15726:24, 15698:38, 15710:24, 15680:12, 15704:1
15739:8, 15745:40 15706:18, 15712:42, 15726:47, 15727:38 15735:26, 15737:20 straight [1] - 15735:7
sort [5] - 15655:9, 15715:4, 15716:41, stands [1] - 15733:14 stepped [2] - strategy [1] -
15665:32, 15665:41, 15719:15, 15719:36, start [2] - 15722:30, 15737:18, 15740:35 15725:13
15730:21, 15745:28 15720:20, 15721:14, 15727:13 stepping [1] - stray [3] - 15688:15,
sorts [3] - 15678:7, 15721:27, 15724:4, started [2] - 15642:13, 15709:44 15688:17, 15689:16
15680:10, 15736:6 15724:6, 15724:24, 15665:2 steps [3] - 15685:1, street [1] - 15731:13
sought [1] - 15674:19 15729:2, 15729:14, starting [1] - 15681:7 15698:37, 15745:7 stress [2] - 15685:33,
source [3] - 15687:38, 15731:42, 15732:23, starts [4] - 15659:25, Stewart [12] - 15697:41
15688:30, 15731:30 15735:43, 15741:10, 15661:10, 15682:45, 15640:43, 15667:33, strict [1] - 15721:29
sources [1] - 15741:43, 15742:46, 15723:1 15688:26, 15690:14, strong [2] - 15723:10,
15683:40 15745:39, 15747:2, State [8] - 15665:5, 15692:5, 15693:33, 15729:47
South [9] - 15665:44, 15747:6 15665:38, 15666:17, 15695:41, 15696:20, stronger [1] -
15666:44, 15666:45, SPINKS [4] - 15666:18, 15666:25, 15709:40, 15711:26, 15692:37
15667:23, 15668:29, 15653:40, 15653:42, 15668:29 15715:40, 15734:2 strongly [2] -
15700:21, 15720:40, 15654:18, 15720:10 state [4] - 15641:21, STEWART [47] - 15665:34, 15720:41
15739:27, 15743:7 Spinks's [1] - 15679:1 15653:46, 15666:7, 15641:1, 15641:19, structure [7] -
speaking [1] - spiritistic [1] - 15667:27 15641:21, 15641:47, 15678:28, 15678:29,
15723:15 15675:40 statement [45] - 15642:7, 15648:16, 15678:31, 15679:13,
speaks [1] - 15667:23 spiritistic-type [1] - 15641:2, 15641:25, 15651:35, 15653:33, 15679:23, 15679:25,
special [2] - 15654:45, 15675:40 15641:30, 15641:40, 15653:44, 15653:46, 15681:12
15725:17 spiritual [7] - 15641:44, 15641:47, 15654:14, 15654:21, structured [1] -
specialised [1] - 15656:32, 15657:26, 15642:47, 15654:3, 15666:43, 15667:37, 15664:30
15710:3 15660:25, 15673:2, 15654:8, 15654:11, 15668:3, 15668:34, structures [1] -
specialist [1] - 15691:18, 15709:19, 15654:14, 15655:38, 15676:1, 15676:7, 15731:27
15710:7 15716:11 15659:45, 15662:9, 15676:14, 15682:6, struggle [1] - 15692:6
specific [18] - spiritual-type [1] - 15669:21, 15672:46, 15687:13, 15687:34, struggling [5] -
15663:4, 15673:33, 15656:32 15676:19, 15682:19, 15695:20, 15698:12, 15706:6, 15709:39,
15683:31, 15692:17, spoken [2] - 15686:28, 15694:36, 15700:41, 15701:13, 15715:30, 15715:33,
15695:12, 15707:18, 15656:31, 15684:26 15694:43, 15696:24, 15701:45, 15702:2, 15731:20
15707:19, 15711:14, springs [1] - 15701:2 15698:21, 15704:11, 15702:18, 15702:26, stuck [2] - 15683:47,
15711:31, 15711:41, SSA [5] - 15658:6, 15704:12, 15705:9, 15702:30, 15704:16, 15687:19
15711:44, 15712:47, 15658:9, 15658:18, 15706:36, 15706:44, 15716:3, 15719:20, studied [2] -
15713:5, 15713:13, 15659:20, 15659:36 15719:15, 15719:16, 15719:29, 15719:36, 15642:14, 15664:3
15713:14, 15728:22, SSA" [1] - 15657:45 15719:37, 15720:6, 15719:45, 15720:3,
studies [3] -
15728:29, 15737:20 SSB [2] - 15659:19, 15723:10, 15724:25, 15720:6, 15720:13,
15698:19, 15704:4,
specifically [7] - 15659:36 15725:28, 15729:14, 15720:20, 15721:25,
15725:6
15643:32, 15656:8, SSB" [1] - 15658:9 15729:15, 15733:20, 15723:24, 15723:31,
Study [1] - 15640:22
15656:32, 15705:29, SSD [1] - 15658:9 15733:37, 15734:15, 15747:1, 15747:4,
study [2] - 15642:14,
15712:21, 15731:43, SSG [1] - 15658:9 15737:14, 15740:46, 15747:6
15669:39
15739:10 St [1] - 15643:38 15744:39, 15745:5, Stewart's [1] -
sub [1] - 15705:20
.04/08/2015 (152) 26
sub-heading [1] - 15734:33, 15745:23, 15647:31, 15685:4 15686:13, 15721:33, they've [3] - 15661:34,
15705:20 15747:21 surrounding [1] - 15722:2, 15723:14 15697:11, 15738:45
subject [4] - 15648:21, suggesting [12] - 15713:15 telephoned [2] - thinking [1] -
15729:41, 15730:24, 15665:22, 15667:12, survivor [18] - 15663:23, 15663:28 15642:21
15732:11 15669:28, 15687:6, 15680:26, 15680:43, tender [8] - 15641:47, thinks [2] - 15652:26,
subjection [11] - 15697:19, 15703:18, 15684:1, 15686:31, 15654:14, 15695:6, 15687:41
15722:39, 15729:32, 15722:46, 15727:35, 15686:39, 15694:16, 15701:45, 15716:44, third [5] - 15645:2,
15729:36, 15729:46, 15728:27, 15734:45, 15695:3, 15695:13, 15719:20, 15720:6, 15661:13, 15694:36,
15730:19, 15730:26, 15736:17, 15746:26 15704:10, 15704:13, 15727:3 15701:21, 15702:18
15731:5, 15731:20, suggestion [5] - 15704:34, 15705:13, terms [6] - 15641:31, third-hand [1] -
15731:46, 15731:47, 15698:34, 15706:6, 15706:33, 15720:43, 15641:33, 15644:21, 15661:13
15742:17 15709:46, 15731:16, 15738:46, 15745:44, 15667:23, 15681:31, third-last [1] - 15645:2
subjection" [1] - 15731:19 15746:14, 15747:8 15740:35 this" [1] - 15687:43
15731:25 suggestions [2] - sweeping [4] - Territories [1] - thousand [1] -
subjective [1] - 15708:25, 15709:43 15729:6, 15731:36, 15717:41 15696:18
15672:23 suggestive [1] - 15737:14, 15740:46 territory [2] - thousands [4] -
submission [7] - 15710:9 sword [1] - 15742:32 15723:36, 15740:34 15684:5, 15692:15,
15678:23, 15679:23, suggests [2] - sworn [4] - 15641:12, testament [1] - 15700:30, 15730:41
15679:28, 15679:29, 15650:30, 15709:13 15641:17, 15653:37, 15721:29 threat [2] - 15662:13,
15683:43, 15684:15, suit [1] - 15652:40 15653:42 testify [1] - 15694:29 15667:9
15727:3 Summary [1] - Sydney [3] - testimonies [1] - three [12] - 15646:32,
submissions [2] - 15716:45 15640:28, 15654:24, 15646:46 15646:39, 15646:46,
15651:15, 15679:22 summary [4] - 15657:17 testimony [5] - 15647:18, 15648:5,
subsequent [3] - 15653:13, 15717:1, symbol [3] - 15658:26, 15693:22, 15694:23, 15648:6, 15649:26,
15702:37, 15719:2 15717:14, 15719:22 15659:39, 15659:41 15694:37, 15732:26, 15664:17, 15710:31,
subsequently [3] - SUMMARY [1] - symbols [1] - 15738:13 15712:28, 15741:12,
15651:25, 15676:28, 15719:26 15658:15 tests [1] - 15727:40 15744:3
15719:1 summons [2] - system [7] - 15650:41, themselves [6] - throughout [3] -
substance [2] - 15676:35, 15677:40 15650:45, 15651:12, 15671:14, 15671:43, 15695:26, 15707:26,
15661:21, 15692:27 summonsed [1] - 15699:43, 15701:6, 15689:42, 15707:10, 15743:2
substantial [2] - 15676:42 15715:28, 15715:31 15732:43, 15742:25 timid [2] - 15701:35,
15643:11, 15643:16 Sunday [1] - 15724:7 theocratic [5] - 15702:45
substantiate [1] - superior [1] - T 15657:26, 15660:31, timid" [1] - 15703:24
15713:17 15742:18 15677:13, 15699:27, Timothy [5] - 15707:3,
substantiated [1] - supervised [1] - tab [23] - 15641:3, 15699:30 15712:24, 15729:19,
15653:16 15724:20 15643:47, 15645:27, therapies [5] - 15729:20, 15729:27
substitute [2] - supplant [1] - 15646:2, 15647:17, 15673:37, 15675:29, title [3] - 15654:34,
15673:3, 15709:20 15672:21 15648:26, 15648:27, 15675:32, 15675:38, 15695:22, 15702:4
subtlety [1] - supply [1] - 15661:21 15651:16, 15652:1, 15675:44 TO [2] - 15640:18,
15665:47 support [21] - 15658:36, 15661:27, therapist [3] - 15747:46
successful [2] - 15657:3, 15662:18, 15670:39, 15673:15, 15673:43, 15674:26, today [5] - 15679:1,
15700:34, 15725:14 15670:22, 15672:30, 15682:33, 15682:41, 15675:1 15686:5, 15710:36,
successively [1] - 15693:27, 15693:30, 15691:35, 15693:17, therapists [3] - 15723:5, 15741:14
15702:34 15694:41, 15695:12, 15707:23, 15711:9, 15673:31, 15674:8, together [5] -
suffered [2] - 15709:4, 15709:10, 15712:2, 15713:40, 15741:16 15697:22, 15697:23,
15679:25, 15710:4 15732:9, 15733:34, 15716:25, 15747:11 therapy [9] - 15673:4, 15719:22, 15719:23,
sufficiency [2] - 15739:2, 15742:43, table [1] - 15718:27 15673:9, 15673:42, 15747:35
15710:29, 15711:12 15744:19, 15745:4, Taganrog [1] - 15674:15, 15674:25, TOKLEY [25] -
sufficient [6] - 15745:8, 15745:17, 15700:21 15674:33, 15675:1, 15677:47, 15678:22,
15649:32, 15704:14, 15745:26, 15745:28, tailor [1] - 15678:47 15675:41, 15675:42 15678:40, 15679:7,
15704:32, 15708:13, 15746:39 tailored [1] - 15689:7 there'd [1] - 15714:30 15679:12, 15679:21,
15711:25, 15712:16 supported [5] - talks [3] - 15694:8, thereabouts [1] - 15679:32, 15680:2,
sufficiently [3] - 15647:25, 15651:5, 15707:4, 15743:5 15727:4 15680:7, 15680:14,
15707:10, 15707:12, 15714:18, 15716:16, task [1] - 15659:8 thereafter [1] - 15680:28, 15680:34,
15713:35 15745:10 taught [3] - 15642:15, 15692:2 15680:38, 15681:17,
suggest [11] - supporting [2] - 15687:26, 15700:14 thereby [1] - 15708:13 15681:24, 15681:29,
15649:16, 15650:9, 15670:30, 15671:30 teach [1] - 15723:6 therefore [4] - 15681:36, 15681:44,
15662:1, 15663:23, suppose [2] - teachers [1] - 15649:14, 15676:33, 15682:1, 15723:47,
15690:35, 15709:18, 15679:39, 15722:30 15721:44 15693:31, 15742:21 15741:6, 15741:8,
15709:22, 15729:39, surprised [2] - teaching [4] - therein [1] - 15717:37 15741:42, 15743:24,
.04/08/2015 (152) 27
15743:39 travelling [2] - 15662:8, 15662:11, 15700:31, 15704:16, 15726:39, 15727:7,
Tokley [4] - 15685:12, 15657:19, 15702:6 15664:13, 15664:14, 15716:27, 15718:3, 15727:13, 15728:14,
15685:16, 15741:4, treated [2] - 15685:23, 15677:4, 15684:40, 15729:46, 15730:29, 15730:25, 15734:37,
15741:10 15730:45 15686:3, 15687:47, 15731:5, 15747:33 15735:23, 15735:40,
took [8] - 15650:26, treatment [6] - 15690:29, 15691:3, undergo [1] - 15736:14, 15740:1,
15650:31, 15663:33, 15673:30, 15674:18, 15696:26, 15696:29, 15728:33 15741:31
15689:43, 15691:47, 15715:12, 15716:4, 15696:33, 15696:38, undermined [1] - useful [1] - 15676:29
15702:16, 15705:27, 15716:8, 15716:9 15701:2, 15701:38, 15674:16 user [1] - 15685:28
15711:32 trial [1] - 15648:21 15703:32, 15703:40, understandings [1] - user-friendly [1] -
Toole [1] - 15645:28 tried [2] - 15672:40, 15704:2, 15704:13, 15689:33 15685:28
top [3] - 15644:26, 15672:41 15705:29, 15706:4, understood [8] - usual [2] - 15703:5,
15648:33, 15658:39 trucks [1] - 15656:47 15706:8, 15709:35, 15646:36, 15648:22, 15705:15
topic [1] - 15741:8 true [22] - 15641:44, 15710:31, 15711:31, 15674:32, 15679:21,
total [3] - 15656:11, 15646:38, 15646:41, 15711:44, 15712:28, 15680:14, 15705:4, V
15718:40, 15735:33 15654:11, 15658:16, 15713:13, 15718:18, 15717:6, 15718:10
totally [7] - 15664:22, 15664:38, 15666:3, 15718:24, 15718:39, undertake [2] - vague [1] - 15692:5
15685:29, 15685:47, 15666:7, 15667:46, 15720:44, 15731:10, 15696:29, 15727:27 valid [5] - 15684:39,
15695:8, 15721:19, 15672:43, 15684:33, 15732:30, 15733:38, undertakes [1] - 15687:45, 15714:22,
15721:22, 15730:15 15686:36, 15689:38, 15736:46, 15737:8, 15698:13 15716:36, 15728:46
touched [1] - 15696:45, 15697:1, 15737:17, 15737:19, undoubtedly [1] - varied [1] - 15656:7
15739:16 15697:28, 15714:10, 15737:35, 15737:38, 15697:28 varies [1] - 15656:12
towards [2] - 15719:9, 15719:40, 15745:21 unfortunately [1] - variety [2] - 15679:44,
15647:43, 15698:36 15720:3, 15720:27, two-witness [8] - 15718:9 15744:14
Tower [1] - 15640:27 15720:34 15690:29, 15691:3, uniform [2] - various [6] -
toy [1] - 15711:36 trust [2] - 15677:26, 15701:2, 15705:29, 15666:17, 15695:35 15644:47, 15656:24,
track [2] - 15681:15, 15697:13 15706:4, 15736:46, uniformity [1] - 15683:32, 15684:42,
15728:22 trusting [1] - 15732:44 15737:19, 15737:35 15665:41 15716:38, 15741:22
Tract [4] - 15671:28, truth [8] - 15645:46, type [4] - 15656:32, United [3] - 15691:26, vary [1] - 15666:25
15677:1, 15695:23, 15653:37, 15666:37, 15675:40, 15685:6, 15692:36, 15692:46 varying [1] - 15663:17
15741:11 15721:23, 15734:34, 15703:41 unless [3] - 15704:9, vast [1] - 15662:34
training [1] - 15710:3 15734:36, 15747:21, types [1] - 15673:9 15714:42, 15719:45 vein [1] - 15723:35
transcript [2] - 15747:22 tyrant [2] - 15730:43, unloving [1] - verify [2] - 15718:14,
15717:6, 15723:25 truthful [1] - 15745:44 15731:37 15732:12 15736:1
transferred [2] - try [4] - 15692:28, unpaid [1] - 15689:19 verifying [1] -
15660:4, 15667:15 15723:7, 15734:46, U unravel [1] - 15726:21 15685:38
transferring [1] - 15744:3 unrealistic [1] - verse [9] - 15698:4,
trying [15] - 15664:22, ultimate [5] - 15712:22, 15712:28,
15665:23 15692:26
15674:37, 15674:38, 15651:31, 15667:34, 15712:29, 15712:35,
transform [1] - unredacted [1] -
15682:22, 15683:12, 15679:5, 15679:7, 15730:2, 15740:16,
15660:38 15719:32
15687:39, 15691:15, 15681:32 15741:46, 15742:27
transgressing [1] - unruly [1] - 15730:9
15692:31, 15695:10, ultimately [6] - verses [3] - 15723:27,
15688:24 unsatisfactory [3] -
15700:8, 15706:19, 15678:19, 15678:22, 15729:25, 15742:14
translation [1] - 15732:47, 15733:5,
15722:5, 15726:21, 15679:22, 15730:47, version [1] - 15716:47
15678:6 15733:11
15731:26, 15742:6 15736:26, 15740:29
transparent [2] - unscriptural [1] - via [1] - 15706:43
Tuesday [1] - un-Christian [1] -
15669:13, 15709:1 15706:34 victim [53] - 15660:30,
15640:31 15714:47
transparently [1] - unsupported [1] - 15660:31, 15660:36,
turn [4] - 15642:16, unable [4] - 15678:13,
15669:35 15746:14 15662:30, 15665:14,
15685:1, 15707:37, 15717:28, 15732:1, 15665:27, 15667:12,
trauma [9] - 15677:18, unwilling [1] -
15733:5 15745:27 15668:36, 15668:39,
15677:20, 15679:18, 15712:8
turned [1] - 15730:23 unaddressed [1] - 15670:21, 15671:10,
15679:24, 15680:11, up [32] - 15648:36,
Two [1] - 15649:19 15669:26 15671:20, 15673:3,
15680:32, 15680:42, 15650:16, 15650:45,
two [60] - 15644:47, unambiguous [1] - 15684:1, 15684:35,
15686:19, 15710:4 15651:47, 15664:6,
15645:3, 15645:8, 15710:31 15684:38, 15684:46,
traumatic [1] - 15668:47, 15671:19,
15645:10, 15645:16, uncertain [1] - 15686:8, 15686:32,
15708:36 15673:19, 15681:27,
15647:6, 15647:19, 15684:47 15686:33, 15686:38,
traumatised [2] - 15681:39, 15684:10,
15648:5, 15649:21, unconscionable [1] - 15687:5, 15694:16,
15685:46, 15746:15 15687:40, 15703:4,
15649:43, 15650:35, 15676:38 15695:2, 15696:27,
traumatising [2] - 15707:23, 15708:41,
15650:46, 15651:10, under [13] - 15663:9, 15697:24, 15698:1,
15685:45, 15708:9 15716:5, 15716:16,
15652:43, 15656:23, 15663:18, 15666:46, 15717:4, 15722:13, 15698:5, 15701:35,
travelled [1] -
15658:25, 15662:7, 15667:9, 15671:42, 15723:6, 15723:25, 15702:45, 15703:8,
15723:36
.04/08/2015 (152) 28
15703:23, 15703:30, walk [1] - 15728:47 willing [1] - 15662:16 15655:27, 15663:37, word [12] - 15674:36,
15704:7, 15704:9, walked [1] - 15664:1 willingly [2] - 15663:43, 15663:44, 15691:25, 15695:38,
15704:12, 15704:27, walks [1] - 15734:34 15664:23, 15665:41 15664:2, 15665:39, 15714:27, 15723:6,
15704:33, 15705:14, wants [2] - 15674:14, wisdom [1] - 15693:14 15674:9, 15676:16, 15725:14, 15729:47,
15706:33, 15707:45, 15674:15 wish [8] - 15641:29, 15676:18, 15676:34, 15730:3, 15730:18,
15708:6, 15708:10, War [1] - 15700:30 15654:7, 15665:30, 15676:47, 15677:8, 15731:20, 15731:46
15713:17, 15738:46, warned [2] - 15681:39, 15708:22, 15679:36, 15688:27, word-for-word [1] -
15740:9, 15743:12, 15711:29, 15711:38 15719:20, 15741:8, 15690:33, 15690:45, 15691:25
15744:10, 15744:11, warnings [1] - 15744:14 15696:13, 15699:7, words [18] - 15643:18,
15745:8, 15745:28, 15737:23 wished [1] - 15704:35 15699:21, 15699:26, 15647:4, 15650:7,
15746:39 waste [1] - 15738:36 wishes [4] - 15662:30, 15699:33, 15699:38, 15650:11, 15651:32,
victim's [3] - watch [1] - 15732:39 15665:14, 15671:10, 15700:20, 15700:31, 15668:39, 15671:19,
15671:20, 15738:47, watched [1] - 15686:6 15743:12 15700:33, 15705:34, 15690:36, 15698:15,
15747:9 Watchtower [13] - withdraw [1] - 15707:5, 15714:44, 15700:28, 15701:22,
victims [13] - 15644:4, 15671:27, 15738:24 15715:36, 15715:47, 15702:19, 15703:28,
15648:10, 15648:11, 15676:47, 15683:45, WITHDREW [2] - 15716:3, 15716:6, 15713:22, 15716:4,
15665:26, 15665:30, 15684:13, 15688:8, 15653:31, 15747:41 15716:18, 15717:24, 15716:46, 15717:33
15673:25, 15685:43, 15695:7, 15695:23, Witness [19] - 15718:45, 15718:47, workers [3] - 15674:9,
15698:7, 15701:36, 15705:10, 15711:10, 15642:7, 15642:11, 15719:6, 15719:8, 15721:7, 15741:16
15702:46, 15738:17, 15716:45, 15717:3, 15643:7, 15673:8, 15721:23, 15724:30, workload [1] -
15744:9, 15744:43, 15741:11 15683:22, 15685:5, 15725:6, 15729:10, 15656:7
15746:29 Watchtower's [1] - 15689:27, 15696:5, 15732:6, 15732:9, works [2] - 15684:47,
video [2] - 15641:4, 15711:3 15721:16, 15721:28, 15732:25, 15734:36, 15703:37
15677:2 ways [1] - 15697:13 15724:6, 15724:21, 15734:39, 15737:2, world [9] - 15689:37,
view [10] - 15650:31, 15729:3, 15736:45, 15737:3, 15741:22, 15695:26, 15695:41,
website [4] -
15653:20, 15676:28, 15741:15, 15741:21, 15742:7, 15742:36, 15695:47, 15707:26,
15656:35, 15684:31,
15689:43, 15690:27, 15741:37, 15743:17, 15743:1, 15743:13, 15724:42, 15724:46,
15685:3, 15685:6
15692:1, 15714:18, 15746:25 15743:33, 15746:19 15725:15, 15743:2
WEDNESDAY [1] -
15715:27, 15721:20, WITNESS [5] - witnesses [20] - World [2] - 15700:30,
15747:46
15746:28 15653:29, 15653:31, 15642:13, 15648:5, 15707:24
week [6] - 15658:13,
viewed [1] - 15673:3 15687:15, 15720:1, 15679:33, 15693:21, worldwide [4] -
15669:39, 15676:33,
viewpoint [1] - 15747:41 15694:22, 15694:27, 15654:45, 15678:45,
15692:8, 15718:11,
15724:27 witness [39] - 15694:37, 15694:38, 15688:16, 15709:41
15718:13
viewpoints [1] - 15641:1, 15641:2, 15695:1, 15695:12, worse [1] - 15721:20
weekly [1] - 15657:15
15731:32 15642:16, 15653:33, 15704:14, 15706:36, worship [1] -
weeks [5] - 15666:21,
views [1] - 15710:17 15671:8, 15676:20, 15710:32, 15711:31, 15657:15
15676:14, 15684:40,
vigilant [1] - 15737:31 15677:15, 15690:29, 15711:44, 15712:28, wrath [1] - 15742:33
15688:1, 15698:35
violation [1] - 15713:9 15691:3, 15695:13, 15713:13, 15733:38, write [6] - 15647:34,
welcome [2] -
violent [1] - 15728:45 15696:33, 15701:2, 15737:17, 15737:38 15673:21, 15690:34,
15663:39, 15676:42
visit [1] - 15732:4 15701:28, 15701:39, Witnesses" [1] - 15690:37, 15696:10,
welfare [3] - 15674:9,
visitors [1] - 15664:24 15702:2, 15702:42, 15643:4 15727:6
15717:35, 15741:16
volunteer [4] - 15703:8, 15703:21, wives [3] - 15721:32, writing [9] - 15644:38,
well-meaning [1] -
15654:23, 15657:5, 15703:33, 15703:37, 15721:36, 15721:39 15661:4, 15661:5,
15745:25
15724:21, 15736:7 15703:41, 15704:13, Wollongong [1] - 15661:17, 15671:28,
whereas [1] -
volunteers [3] - 15705:29, 15705:42, 15657:18 15686:32, 15704:8,
15641:39
15656:12, 15656:45, 15706:4, 15706:14, woman [5] - 15679:47, 15714:19, 15733:21
whichever [1] -
15657:11 15710:42, 15711:18, 15697:22, 15697:26, written [13] -
15703:9
vulnerable [1] - 15711:33, 15711:40, 15722:42, 15746:7 15671:26, 15673:23,
whole [10] - 15655:28,
15669:10 15712:11, 15712:16, women [15] - 15674:43, 15687:27,
15657:22, 15677:25,
15712:46, 15714:22, 15698:42, 15698:46, 15694:45, 15695:7,
15680:23, 15686:13,
15736:46, 15737:19, 15699:4, 15703:27,
W 15694:47, 15722:46,
15706:9, 15706:26,
15699:12, 15704:12,
15722:47, 15726:22, 15737:22, 15737:30, 15714:21, 15714:32,
wait [2] - 15647:13, 15737:35 15721:28, 15721:30, 15738:46, 15747:14
15736:8
15648:8 witness's [1] - 15721:32, 15721:44, wrongdoer [3] -
wicked [1] - 15707:5
waited [1] - 15665:25 15720:13 15722:2, 15722:14, 15704:25, 15704:42,
wide [1] - 15705:28
waiting [1] - 15735:16 Witnesses [64] - 15722:36, 15723:8, 15705:4
widely [1] - 15687:24
Wales [7] - 15665:44, 15643:28, 15650:24, 15741:20 wrongdoing [16] -
wider [2] - 15715:37,
15666:44, 15666:46, 15650:44, 15654:24, wonder [1] - 15719:41 15648:43, 15649:35,
15731:6
15667:23, 15668:29, 15654:46, 15655:18, wondering [1] - 15694:23, 15695:1,
wife [2] - 15655:7,
15720:40, 15739:27 15655:20, 15655:23, 15716:17 15701:34, 15702:45,
15721:35
.04/08/2015 (152) 29
15703:12, 15703:22,
15703:42, 15708:12,
15710:33, 15712:11,
15734:27, 15734:43,
15735:4
wrongly [1] -
15731:45
wrote [4] - 15652:29,
15652:31, 15676:17,
15676:33
Y
year [1] - 15643:26
years [36] - 15641:39,
15642:8, 15642:20,
15642:21, 15642:34,
15642:41, 15643:8,
15644:47, 15649:4,
15649:29, 15655:23,
15656:6, 15663:25,
15663:33, 15664:9,
15664:13, 15664:14,
15664:15, 15669:32,
15685:37, 15686:30,
15686:35, 15695:5,
15700:15, 15717:10,
15718:20, 15718:24,
15718:29, 15718:31,
15718:36, 15728:21,
15732:36, 15738:12,
15744:40, 15744:47,
15745:35
years' [1] - 15689:47
Yes" [1] - 15726:30
York [9] - 15676:12,
15676:16, 15678:19,
15678:38, 15679:5,
15679:10, 15688:9,
15692:31, 15695:24
young [9] - 15697:3,
15697:11, 15707:45,
15708:9, 15708:16,
15732:43, 15733:14,
15733:15, 15746:7
yourself [6] - 15655:3,
15706:9, 15725:22,
15734:41, 15737:44,
15741:13
.04/08/2015 (152) 30

Case Study 29 - Transcript - Jehovahs Witnesses - Day 152 - 04082015

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ROYAL COMMISSION INTO INSTITUTIONAL

RESPONSES TO CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE

Public Hearing - Case Study 29

Level 17, Governor Macquarie Tower

On Tuesday, 4 August 2015 at 10am

Counsel Assisting: Mr Angus Stewart SC

.04/08/2015 (152) 15640

.04/08/2015 (152) 15641 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15642 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15643 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15644 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15645 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15646 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15647 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15648 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15649 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15650 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15651 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Coyne)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15652 A C PENCHEFF (Mr Coyne)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15653 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15654 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15655 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15656 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15657 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15658 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15659 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15660 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15661 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15662 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15663 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15664 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15665 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15666 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15667 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15668 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15669 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15670 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15671 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15672 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15673 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15674 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15675 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15676 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15677 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15678 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15679 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15680 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15681 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15682 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15683 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15684 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15685 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15686 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15687 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15688 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15689 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15690 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15691 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15692 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15693 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15694 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15695 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15696 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)

.04/08/2015 (152) 15697 R P SPINKS (Mr Stewart)