AN. AFTERNOON CHAT WITH MR~ JA~IES PAYN.

By l\i.A.RY A.NGELA DICKENS. ,

'_~_Y'."ITis difficult; to imagine a pre-eminently noticeable in his talk. He is

~ pleasaIlter room a room at as closely in' touch with the literary world
once brighter, more comfol't- of the moment as though 11e still stood in
able, and more sllggestive. the thicl{ of the fight ,vith his way yet to
011 011e side are long windows make. He is eager over the younger men-
opelling 011 to a veranda and their excellencies, their successes full of
leading into a delightful garden beyond bright sympathy with their triumphs.
the garden of a square truly, but boasting "Go and look at those candlesticks," he
trees as beautiful as need be. Throllgh these tells you, "on the table there, with the ink-
windo\ys the sunshine streams. It rests upon stand. Tlley ,vere given me by Merrimall
books, pictures, and Stanley 1Vey-
details of all kin eIs, man; they ,vere
each with its own . ..' two of the young
charm of associ- .... .
...
men to whom I
ation, and it rests happened to be
fillally upon the able to be of 11se
OvVller of all these ill their early
things the very days. Have you
cen tre· of t h e : read' The So,v-
cheery atmos- ers' ?" he inter-
phere of the room polates ea g er I y.
-M r. J a ill e s .. "Isn't it a good
Payn himself. '.' . bool{ ? There's
Full of fun, full a horribly lauda-
of genial kindli- tory inscription
11.ess, with an in- on the inkstand.
timate knowledge But I tell them
of literary matters the best part -of
present and past, the affair is that
Mr. Payn is the they should be
ill 0 s t delightful able to give silver
companion possi- ~~ndlesticks and
ble. He will pass inlrstands." He
from one subject ", speaks the last
to another, t h r o w - ' . .•... ".: · words wi th a
iug sidelights of ;. .'\. ' . '. ,. , .. . .•. " genial laugh; its
all kinds on every- '" . . . . . . echoes make ·a
thing he touches , background while
-sidelig h ts of l~~~;~~..,,;~,;~!? . . you read the lines
experience, sicIe- "'~rcmt'~;'wto by] .. . '[El~~~t~~~·;;'y.' from Pope en-
lights of keen in- l\[R. JAMES PAYN. graved upon the
tuition, sidelights il1kstand, and Y011
of spontaneous and al",ays l{indly hUmOl11\ 11nderstand sOluething of, what its owner
Thel'e is hardly a brancll of literature vvitll nl11st have been to the givers as they made
which IVIr. Payn is 110t practically acquainted ; their struggling way up the steep hill of
there is certainly no branch of the subject Sllccess.
on which he has not something to say ,veIl N or is it only his own proteges, so to
worth tIle hearing. Many men have experi- speak, who excite Mr. Payn's enthllsiasm.
e11ce, thongll in few men is it so vivid as it Most' men can excite' themselves over
is ,vith Mr. Payn. BlIt few men, bringing their own" finds." But all good work, all
with them so much from the past, have so " movement" in the right direction, be it
l{een all ap-preciation of the present. It is llllderstood enlist Mr. Payn's eager illterest.
his extraordinary "up-to-datelless " which is II e reads all the "new men," and he has
435
 4~6 THE WINDSOR lIfAGAZINE.
something to say of them all. And it is homebird in every feather," is neither here
essentially characteristic of Ilim that even nor there. Nature interposed, and ill-health
when that something is not approval it is so brought about the lad's removal from Wool-
expressed that it hardly sOllnds like con- wich. A university career followed, with
demnation. Mr. Payn has been a reviewer the Cllurch as a goal. It was during these
of books for many years, as everybody knows. years that James Payn published his first
And yet " I never \vrote a bad notice in my boo}{, a volume of poems called "Stories
life," he declares, "except in one case where from Boccaccio." Poetry was his first, and
I thought the ·book was immoral. When I perhaps always his dearest, literary love. He
don't like a book I simply leave it alone; drifted away from her however, as men have
when I like it, I like to say so." In Ilis done before and since, urged by such· sordid
" Literary Recollections" Mr. Payn has told considerations as a desire to see himself more
us about the first newspaper notice Ilis own frequently in print and a respect for pecu-
work ever received a good notice of course. niary remuneration. He had an interval of
" It was like ten thousand tonics in a single uphill struggle, in the course of wllich Ilis
dose," he says. " When I became a reviewer work won the recognition of the editors of
myself, and had to deal with a yOllng author Household Words and Oha1nbers's Journal.
who had genlline merit in him, I never He became a regular contributor to both
failed to recall tIle encouragement I had these papers. Before very long he succeeded
myself received when I most needed it." Mr. Leitch Ritcbie as editor of Ohambers's
But those who know him may be- forgiven Journal. He wrote many books and a gl'eat
for doubting whether this incentive to justice l1umber of miscellaneous articles. He" ad-
,vas ever in the least needed by Mr. Payn, Ol~ vanced in public favour," he says of himself,
whether the root of the matter does not lie "but only in a moderate way." Then he
considerably deeper ·in his O'VIl natllre prodllced "Lost Sir Massillgbel'd." TIle
indeed. For in every word Ilcspeaks, as book was a conspicuous success, and J aIiles
surely as in every word he writes, rings tllat Payn had" arrived," as the slang pIlrase IIRS
kindliness of truest penetration to Wllich the it. He llad "arrived," and he had "come
good reveals itself more swiftly and distinctly to stay." He had con1e to occupy a prolni-
than the bad. nent and almost ullique position in the
It is \vell worth noticing, ill connection literary life of his time. And yet, ba it
,vith J aInes Payn the revie"rer, that thiH observed that tllis mall of many "lines,"
critic, absolutely incapable as he is of writing this novelist, journalist, critic and pub-
a malicious line, has the strongest possible lisher's reader, altogether falls foul, first and
opinion on' the subject of signed critiques. . foremost, of the assumption that lIe was ever
"It's a· mistal{e," he says emphatically. what is currently understood as "a great
" TIle fashion seems to be going out, and I'm ,vorker," tllat he ever worked for long hours,
glad of it. The critic ought to be impersonal. or in any way made a slave of himself.
YOll don't speak of a man, even wIlel1 YOll "I llover did imaginative worl{ after one
praise him, exactly as you speak to him it's o'clock," he says. " I }{ept the afternoon for
impossible. And if you write a criticism of Iuore mechanical worl{; and I never worked
YOll1' friend's work and SigIl it with your at all after fonr or five. After that time I
name, you're speaking directly to biln. It llsed to go down to the club and play whist.
must influence your point of view. It's It's a question of concentration," lle adds,
inevitable; it can't be helped." warluing a little to his subject as it becomes
Turning from the work of other poople more abstract. "If a man \valks about and
to his O\Vll work, Mr. Payn becomes very stares out of \vindow he won't get through
ID1ICh less eager, less explicit, alld altogetller nillcb, al1d 11e'11 have to spend more hours at
non-enthusiastic. You feel rather as though, it. Alld some men, YOll know, llav'e a way
in effecting tIle transition, you had put out of saying, ' Hullo! 11ere's a fine day 1 Let's
YOllr light with an extinguisher 1 The actllal go up the river 1' And that doesn't answer.
facts of his career profoundly dull reading, After all Trollope's principle ,vas the right
in Mr. Payn's opinioll are as follows: one rogular work, regular hours. Bllt he
He ,,"as born at Cheltenham, and educated tllrned out exactly the same quantity of
. originally for the army. Wlly tIle arlny worl{ every day, alld that, I am bound to
should have been tIle professioll cllosell for a say, I 11cver did. I dOll-'t Bce how be
boy who preferred the fireside and "The managed it."
_Mysterie3 of Udolpho" to a day's hunting, He pauses a moment, and then, with his
and who, to quote his own ,vords, "was a mind still running on the question of hard
 •

AN AFTER1VOON OHAT WITH MR. JAMES PAYN. 4-37

.
work as represented by long hours, he goes not that they are so very dreadful, as far as
on: "Bllt then I never made engagements I see, for the villains always come to a bad
ahead; that's the mistake so many of us end. Boys like excitement and adventure
make nowadays. Of COllrSe it's a tempta- in their stories; that's what they read for."
tion. What everyone wants is pernlanent The position of publisher's reader is one
employment, and permanent employment of involving experiences many and various, and
the genuine }{ind isn't easily fOll11d. If Mr. Payn is not the man to let experience
you've orders four years ahead that's a very go by him without extracting its last iota of
fair substitute for a permanency. But it's a humour or pathos.
mistake. You may be ill you may very " I've made my mistakes," he says frankly,
easily be ill but even without tllat any "and I've had my successes. 'Vice Versa'
nUD) ber of tllings may interfere, and there was 011e of my successes. It had been
you are, bonnd, wllether you can turn Otlt refused by ever so many pllblisbers before I
good work or bad; the mere idea ,vould be llad it. There's a delightful book 1 I never
enough to make Ine ill at once." laughed so much in my life as I laughed
During tIle past ten or fifteen years the over that. And' John Inglesant' was one
spread of education has revolutionised litera- of my failures. Yes, I refused 'John
ture, tII011gh perIlaps rather as a trade than Inglesant' and tIlen I forgot all about it ! "
as all art. And on this subject Mr. Payll's 'fhe story of tllis episode is so good that
conclusions are particularly illteresting. it must be given in Mr. Payn's own words,
"Everybody reads nowadays," he says, although, as he says, he has told it already
"and the differellce in the delnand for ill disguised fOl'Il:\.
bool\:s I mean within my Inemory is enor- "A paragraph appeared in one of the
mous, enormous! There's a lle\V public papers," says Mr. Payn, "asserting in round
altogether. It doesn't affect tIle classics terms thali I had had the stupidity ,to refuse
much, bIlt it has created a tremenclous flood , J ohn Inglcsant~ , I was extremely indig-
of second and tllird-rate books and magazines. nant at the libel, as I considered it, and I
That's what tIle mass of the Pllb'l.ic 'vants- showed it to my cIlief when he happened to
second and third-rate literatllre. -:people lil(o come illtO my rOOIn.
to find tIleir own floating ideas expressed for " 'Look here,' I said, 'what these fellows
thenl; tlley like the imagination that doesn't are saying 1 Did YOl1 ever see anything so
go over their heads. . Look at tIle popularity infamOllS? I can't stand it I I shall write
of Tnpper that's the ,vay to account for it. and cOlltradict it ! '
There's an immense pllblic for the co]nmon- " 'I don't tllillk I would trollble to do
place immense!" . that,' was tIle soothing reply. 'What does it
"As to the 'N e\v Woman' literature," lnatter? . They will sayanythhlg, you kI10'Y.'
Mr. Payn continues genially, "tllat appealfl " , Oh, but I really IDllSt !' I said. ' It'8
to a very small pllblic. Have I ever seen a altogetller beyond a jol{c. I shall ,vrite to
, N e,v W omall '? 'Vhy, 110 " .~ this with the the Inan and give hiln a piece of my mind.'
cheeriest laugh "and to tell yori tIle trlltll, " 'I don't thinJr I would if I ,vere you,'
I don't believe she exists, or if. ,she ,does there persisted my chief. .
are not more tllan half a dozenspecimens of " , WIlY not ?' I demanded.
her." " 'Because well, because you did refuse
On the s11bject of onc mucll-discusscd "John Inglesant," YOll l{now.'
point in connection with the infltlence of " 'I did notIling of the kind,' I pro-
literature, Mr. Payn 1138 exce3dillgly definite tested. 'Refuse" Job 11 Inglesant I" I refuse
and distinct opinions. Indeed sucIl a thing " ,T Ollll In_glesant !" I never heard of such
as a half-hearted opinion is wholly incom- a thing! ' .
patible with his temperament. The idea " 'Let's have up the letter-book,' was the
that tIle young ruffians ,v110 pres.ent theu1- mild suggestion. .
selves as precocious candidates for prisoll "So tlle letter-book was brought," con-
discipline have been assisted ill their. criminal cludes Mr. PaY11,vith a delicious mixture of
developlnent by the "pcn11Y dtteadflu, " in ruefulness and cl1joymel1t, "and tllcre it was
which they are popularly Sllpposed to steep in black alld white! I had refused 'JOllll
their young SOlUS, is regarded by Mr. PaJIl as Inglesant,' and my pllblisher had never said
a fallacy of the most patent description. a word of it to. me. Wasn't it good of
"If boys are bad, bad they ,viII be, what- llim ? " .
ever they read," h,e says. " And the average A cllaracteristic last word. As such let
boy gets no harm from tIle 'dreadfuIs ' - it stand .