Talk:Count On Me

Latest comment: 2 years ago by BD2412 in topic Requested move 12 April 2022

Move request

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Understand Bkonrad's opinion, but seeing as no one has actually disagreed that MOS:CT means that all "Count on" titles should be moved to "Count On" I'm not sure it matters that much whether the dab page moves before the articles. If the articles aren't moved in a timely fashion or they are opposed at RM, someone ping me and I'll reverse this page move. Jenks24 (talk) 14:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)Reply



Count on Me (disambiguation)Count On Me (disambiguation) – Per MOS:CT, the following words should be capitalized: particles of phrasal verbs. If I "count on" someone, "count on" is a phrasal verb. Of course, as I disambiguation page this can also be more simply named Count on me (disambiguation) without worry of capitalization rules. In either case, I can then move or request moves for those titles in the disambiguation page to follow the Manual of Style. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 00:33, 7 June 2014 (UTC) Note: In the article for phrasal verb, there is an external link [1] which identifies "count on" as a phrasal verb. The definition of "count on" would equate with how its used in these titles. --StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 00:53, 7 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

All titles that could be affected by a change from "Count on" to "Count On" are listed above. (If you want to run the search yourself, you can click this link.) — Jaydiem (talk) 16:42, 11 June 2014 (UTC)Reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

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There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Count on Me which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:44, 21 July 2015 (UTC)Reply

The record of that RM discussion is now at Talk:Count On Me (Whitney Houston and CeCe Winans song)#Requested move 21 July 2015. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:34, 14 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Follow-up on move request from June 2014

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Hello world... just wanted to mention that today I made the following page moves, all of which refer back to the Count On Me page move of June 2014, an archive of which is visible above.

— Jaydiem (talk) 02:52, 26 February 2019 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 12 April 2022

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is a clear absence of consensus for a move at this time. BD2412 T 06:20, 26 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

– Per MOS:CT and the RM discussion that was just closed at Talk:You Can Count on Me#Requested move 24 March 2022. In that discussion it was concluded that "on" is being used as a preposition rather than a particle in that title. MOS:CT says to only capitalize a word that has the form of a preposition within a phrasal verb if that word is not being used as a preposition. This would revert an RM conclusion of 2014. (I don't know whether the guidance in MOS:CT about prepositions in phrasal verbs has changed since 2014.) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:08, 12 April 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Colonestarrice (talk) 08:55, 9 May 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 02:49, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Regarding whether this aspect of MOS:CT changed since mid-2014, it appears that it has not. Here is a link to the 22 July 2014 version, and I don't see any obvious difference about this. It seems that the old discussion merely focused on whether "count on" is a phrasal verb or not, without discussing whether "on" is a preposition or not. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:04, 12 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
@BarrelProof: why was the MOS changed in this regard? Was it a conscious decision with consensus, or just one of the random BOLD changes that seem to happen on guideline pages over time? It seems to me that the 2014 formulation best matches what we should be doing, as there is a big big difference between the [count on] [me] formulation versus the [count] [on] [me], which as Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars says, would suggest someone doing some 1,2,3,4 counting on the person concerned. And there isn't much of a good reason why phrasal verbs shouldn't be capitalised, whether they contain a preposition or not.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:19, 25 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Amakuru: Sorry if my remark was hard to understand. This part of the MOS did not change (as far as I can tell). It appears that we were just not focusing on part of what it said. Here is a link to the 22 July 2014 version, and I don't see any obvious difference about this. I suggest to have a look at the recent discussion at Talk:You Can Count on Me#Requested move 24 March 2022. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:06, 25 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

*Oppose, and the previous RM referenced at the start of this request should be reopened and reverted. "Count on" is very definitely a phrasal verb, and all major dictionaries say so quite clearly: Oxford [3], Cambridge [4], Collins [5] and Macmillan [6]. Richard3120 (talk) 18:50, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply

Actually, what BarrelProof says above may be correct – this is definitely a phrasal verb, but the particle could be a preposition here rather than an adverb. I'm going to look into this further. Richard3120 (talk) 19:02, 16 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
What BarrelProof said is correct, but for all listed, they are phrasal verbs. You can count on fingers. To add up? Preposition. To be able to hold the rope? Phrasal verb. SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:05, 17 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
Yes, it's a phrasal verb, but MOS:CT only says to capitalize such words in phrasal verbs that are particle verbs, not in phrasal verbs that are prepositional verbs. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:43, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.