→Stalking complaint: Nick the interaction ban is the first step to take. If this does not work we will have to think of stronger enforcements. But thik interaction ban will work.
***If Rob13 is "philosophically opposed to interaction bans", both of them work in the small world of Wikipedia bots, Rob13's actions on BRFAs are to validly point out horrific bot-related misbehavior on the part of Magioladitis, and Magioladitis welcomes the removal of Rob13 from BRFAs, that doesn't seem like a very constructive solution to me. It might be possible if we simultaneously ban Magioladitis from anything bot-related, broadly construed, but otherwise no. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 06:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
***If Rob13 is "philosophically opposed to interaction bans", both of them work in the small world of Wikipedia bots, Rob13's actions on BRFAs are to validly point out horrific bot-related misbehavior on the part of Magioladitis, and Magioladitis welcomes the removal of Rob13 from BRFAs, that doesn't seem like a very constructive solution to me. It might be possible if we simultaneously ban Magioladitis from anything bot-related, broadly construed, but otherwise no. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 06:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
* It's quite clear that Magioladitis behaviour is now at the boundary of net positive/net negative to the project. The behaviour on-wiki is clearly a net negative for the project but is offset by outreach and technical contributions to the wider Wikimedia project. I support an interaction ban but I'm also not opposed to a straight site ban (of fixed duration - 6 months to 1 year in the first instance). This behaviour cannot be permitted further. [[User:Nick|Nick]] ([[User talk:Nick|talk]]) 06:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
* It's quite clear that Magioladitis behaviour is now at the boundary of net positive/net negative to the project. The behaviour on-wiki is clearly a net negative for the project but is offset by outreach and technical contributions to the wider Wikimedia project. I support an interaction ban but I'm also not opposed to a straight site ban (of fixed duration - 6 months to 1 year in the first instance). This behaviour cannot be permitted further. [[User:Nick|Nick]] ([[User talk:Nick|talk]]) 06:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
** [[User:Nick|Nick]] the interaction ban is the first step to take. If this does not work we will have to think of stronger enforcements. But thik interaction ban will work. -- [[User:Magioladitis|Magioladitis]] ([[User talk:Magioladitis|talk]]) 06:28, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
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On August 18, this person was searching Wikipedia for the misspellings "whote" and "wite" for the purpose of correcting them. Thesetwo corrections are quite wrong, and they are within the first dozen edits.
The same day, TheOldJacobite started defending against a swarm of this person's poor quality edits at the Zero Dark Thirty article, eventually using 11 different IP6 addresses, all starting with 2605:E000:9161:A500 in the recent months (back in April it was 2605:E000:9152:8F00.) After ten days of the nonsense, Scribolt worked to repair the damage. Unfortunately, this IP6 editor has worn out the patience of the page watchers, and the plot section now suffers for it.
It's only today that I became aware of this editor when they attempted to fix the grammar at some music articles. When I reverted the poor quality changes, I noticed that they were immediately restored with hostile comments in edit summaries and on talk pages. I looked further and saw that this person has been spoiling for a fight at the Ishqbaaaz talk page at which Cyphoidbomb said, "In the future if you could avoid adding multiple edit requests as you did, that would be appreciated." The angry reaction by this person was to add 12 new edit requests.
If there is a protect on an article it is not my fault what means I have to suggested edits. I am not aware that every suggestion has to be acted upon. And the suggestion that has been repeatedly made by so many other WP editors was that a registered user name be established. Again, is it oir is nit not the policy of WP to not look upon non-registered user name participants as just as legitimate as registered who tend to be more long term users and editors of WP. This just goes to my original contention that there exists in WP a two-phere mentality particularly when it comes to contentious actions such as the matter of this board. That in the long run people who use registered user names are perceived differently than non-registered user named.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 07:23, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
At my user page, this person admitted to disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point when they wrote, "I always put something in to see just how unwelding can someone be about their position. Sometimes it is presenting a format out of kilter and sometimes it is a misspelled word."[1]
Please be advised that your characterization is incorrect. It was a test to better understand your personality and how it manifests. That is not the same as being disruptive but you are the status quo so I imagine that will have more influence that whatever position I could take.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 07:36, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think communication with this person could be focused more clearly if a rangeblock were set in place on 2605:E000:9161:A500/64, while allowing talk page access. Binksternet (talk) 03:04, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Thanks, Binksternet. Interestingly (to me), this appears to be the same person who has been busting Drmargi's chops over at Talk:Victoria (TV series), dropping voluminous diatribes that don't genuinely seem focused on arriving at an understanding, rather, it seems like they're stonewalling improvements by draining editors of their time with a lot of confusing, linguistic dick-waving. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:20, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let me know when you have calmed down from your venting of anger because that language really is not even in an anonymous environment suitable. I would think that you as what I perceive your image to be portrayed as a seasoned WP contributor would know that. I hope you do not take this wrongly. Maybe, you had a bad week or day.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 07:16, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For an example of which, see this thread on my talk page. After this gobbledegoop I took a look at some of the IPs edits, and reverted some of them, and the IP retaliated by making bullshit edits to an article I've done a lot of work on. This was 2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6, the first on Binksternet's list.Thanks to Binksternet for chasing down the other IP numbers this person is using. They're obviously NOTHERE and should be blocked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:50, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Beyond My Ken: I originally thought the editor was using a complaint letter generator to respond to Drmargi. I had second thoughts about that, but the language is so bizarre. It's like someone was trying to write lawyer-speak in their native tongue, then mechanically translating it to English. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:49, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Let me understand if this is correct. I am being held responsible for the manner in which the technology works with WP in regard to how an IP address is recognized by WP? Because it is no great conspiracy on my part about how that functions. I enter the sight and whatever it recognizes it does on its own. I believe it is recognized by WP that users do not have to register to be a contributor? Or by the surprise about the number of "IP's" that this is not true? I have held on to this ability and now it seems I am being accused of being to proud and combative not to register a username? A review of actions by this board show that this trait seems to be prevalent with those that find fault with others. I recognize that within those that have a very high interest in WP find that a blasphemous statement but I cannot help what is prevalent and had no improved over the years despite WP stating that a contributor or even a user must register a username to be part of this community. There seems to be a cookie cutter app used by many at WP that seems to believe that registering a user name is the answer to the situation? How can on the one hand say it is official WP policy and guideline not to require a registered username yet on the other hand such as in this situation because of the technology of WP issue multiple IP's then turn around and say that there seems to be some thing wrongs with that many IP's? And it is merely the technology in motion? I guess there may be a finer point to this that you may be angry that this has happened? Again, that is not my responsibility and something I have absolutely no control. If there is anger about that it should be directed at WP's technology. But that may be immaterial as you all seem to be upset. And nothing will change that.Or is that going to be interpreted as a statement of being challenging to the status quo?2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 05:22, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The complaints have been about your edits and your comments, not about the number of IP addresses used - those are presented simply so that a range block can be made to stop you from editing further, if that is the WP:CONSENSUS of this discussion. And thanks very much for presenting precisely the problem with your language, which is nearly incomprehensible. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
sp suppose = supposed?(For the onlooker: the IP came to my talk page, quoted a 2 year and 4 month old comment I had made in which I had misspelled "security", and asked "sp securty=security?" Soon after the IP was making retaliatory edits to an article I've edited heavily.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
That is an interesting addition to this proceeding. Is that often done? Although he came from over the hill can never said that I found the man all that appealing. paranoid, yes. And to think that his "official presidential papers" will probably never be housed at his presidential library because of his legal problems. Now will someone else be adding a pic of Raygun?2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 07:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would find that someone saying the issue is totally over edits rather than IP's failing to recognize that within WP is an element that prides itself not on letting people function without registered usernames name but someone perceiving that the use of a registered username solves the problem at hand. Now this may have something to do with the availability of more experienced WP users using the app that uses canned language. When you combine someone's experienced as expressed on the pages that this person creates (not the articles) listing their accomplishment with this "command" as set forth by this canned language there does tend to be presented an air of authority. And as such wrapped around the content of that canned language that a registered user name somehow obliterates any perceived misunderstand is really someone not understanding the full impact of just what it is that they have done. Either you know that it is going on or oblivious to that fact which then calls question to your ability to evaluate and respond. Now, again, to the status quo that is blasphemous. There is a potential conflict there that you may not be aware that is going on and as a more advanced WP user you should just as you expect less expereicned WP users not to step on your toes. 2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 06:14, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
No, it's about your problematic edits and your combative behavior. The only thing a registered username would do in this instance is to make it slightly easier to block you. Binksternet (talk) 06:20, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Remember that you are speaking for the status quo. You see nothing wrong with your approach or behavior. Do you truly understand the impact of canned apps? The reaction makes it appear you see nothing wrong with the status quo? And again, bringing up that statement is to the status quo blasphemous. How dare you say that there is something wrong with us when we are the authority>2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 06:41, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Irrelevant
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Let me understand this, Zero Dark Forty is faulty despite when the original issue was raised another editor complimented the tight expression? Could you recognize the inherently wrong direction the plot was going before its current status? Can it be recognized that when someone does not understand the context of a subject many times puffery makes it presence. The excess of detail shows that many who worked on this plot before could not wrap their understanding around how understanding the non-westerners was the means to understanding the plot of this film and getting rid of puffery. But instead all this other stuff that is detail, something experienced by the westerners and thus understandable was getting in the way to a -700 word plot. When the issue was raised about plot content another WP editor praised the tightness of the expression. All the detail was there to be used but not the detail that would give a -700 word plot. What was being missed was the experience through the non-western eye. At one time in the plot there was expressed in the same statement that someone was being followed yet were not identified as a suspect although it was clear that they traced the person all the way from being in a position to receive and send messages and being at the compound. Yet all this stuff about spy-craft puffery emerged without getting to the point that cultural and personal habits were key to getting a -700 word plot. If you are unwilling to accept that the approach taken is not the best yet when someone else insists it is there fault for you being upset? It seems that all the responsibility is being placed on the newbie instead of the more seasoned WP user relying on the canned apps. It sounds like there is a serious culture problem within WP as how to approach people. But then again, in the land of status quo, that is blasphemous. You get reprimanded for that. 2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 06:37, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A review of dealings with even suspected sock puppies etc seems to bring people out of the woodwork as if there is some conspiracy to undermine WP. Just because the internet is the love of those that love anonymity does not mean that they are set out to act against anyone's interests and to have postulated that thought is just part and parcel to the other forms of character assassination used at WP.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 06:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It is not my responsibility how WP technology works. You do not seem to accept that? And how do you base you assessment? Perception because you certainly have yet to provide except through that one action naturally would have followed thr other. I know that will make you upset but that is not my responsibility. Do us a favor in d=these discussions. Show up to give examples rather than mere mud throwing. Your other compatriate have done that well enough. We do not need people to come out of the wood work and using these avenues to vent anger only shows how bsse one can be in an anonymous environment. It is not as if you as my neighbor show up at a community meeting to say to my face what is it that you feel is the problem. Venting anger is really counter productive to these presumably civil and courteous proceedings. You have failed the mark. Would you like to return to your venting to clarify what you can cite as examples of support?2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 07:12, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Without commenting on the validity or need for a block, it seems like a rangeblock for 2605:e000:9161:a500:0:0:0:0/64 would take care of this. Based on edits since Sept. 1, 2017, this was the only (or at least primary) range used. Edit: Looks like Ansh666 beat me to the punch. See their comment above. EvergreenFir(talk)07:43, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Our brief user talk interaction[3][4] seems relevant to this thread, as it goes to the IP's mind-set vis-a-vis collaboration. I don't feel my request was unreasonable - your mileage may vary. ―Mandruss☎08:50, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I guess now I am going to ever be the more contentious because WP's forms are not user friendly? On the one hand I am deemed incompetent and yet on the other competent enough to do what is wanted by the status quo. WP really needs to determine just what it want to achieve. Slapping the person on one side of the face is not productive for having done something and then slapped on the other for not having done something?2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 09:34, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Since they are still doing their so-called grammar edits, all of which have to be checked to see that they haven't added errors where none existed (or substituted new errors for old ones), a block sooner rather than later would be good. They are a time sink, and it doesn't really matter whether they are incapable of understanding people's advice and pointers to policy, or if they merely choose to ignore what other editors say. The non sequitur answers here don't help. --bonadeacontributionstalk09:47, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The underlying situation here is that when it comes to blaming someone that usually goes toward the lesser experienced WP participants because the status quo is unwilling to let WP's reputation faulter. Just now, I have found that a seasoned WP editor justified their reverting of a grammatical correction that I made based on the wrong assumption that I had imposed a spelling error when in fact if that editor had reviewed what had been done before hitting the revert app they would have known that I had nothing to do with the misspelling of "released". Just as it has been said time and time again within this forum, WP is not a place for innovation and even within other discussion on this very page it has been said that actions have been taken to protect WP, not find the truth but protect WP. This is what comes from an organization that promotes ONLY from within. Talk about stifling debate. But then that is a blasphemous statement coming from the non-status quo. All the dancing that the status c=quo wants to do will not change that perception.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 10:03, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hey guys, I get the idea from the latest immediate attention to edits I have made that I am not welcomed but at least get off the auto revert app and read what is it that you are reverting especially when you reintroducre misspellings.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 12:12, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mark, you are indiscriminately reverting everything without regard to what has been corrected which includes the misspellings that you reintroduce. I am suppose to present a defense dealing with these bizarre personalities? The guy trhows at me the 3r rule in response to him indiscrimately reverting as if the world is coming to an end. Boy, it really does not take much to ruffle the feather in this pillow case. This is so bizarre and you all call yourself sane. Well, that explains one missing glue bottle.2605:E000:9161:A500:3832:5234:5BA4:7DB6 (talk) 12:26, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
2605, the Wikipedia project's goal is supposedly to give everyone in the world an encyclopedia in their own language, but for some reason the English Wikipedia has almost(?) as much content as the rest of the world's language's Wikipedia's put together. Meanwhile, the other languages are badly underrepresented so we're missing our goal of serving the readers of those languages. Could I suggest that if your native language is not English, that you contribute to your own language's Wikipedia? That way you'd be helping the global Wikipedia effort in a way that monoglot English speakers (most of us here) cannot. 173.228.123.121 (talk) 13:07, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well that turned into a circus. MarkSewath started reverting all the gnomish work that the IP6 person had been performing, with the reverts speeding along at about nine per minute, a speed which makes it impossible to see if you are helping to build the encyclopedia. Mark also accused the IP6 person of being a sockpuppet of Gabucho181,[5] which seems unlikely to me. Callanecc then blocked the IP for two days, which raised a storm of righteous protest from that person, and 90 minutes later Yamla revoked talk page access. To me, this action does not address the core concern which is that our IP6 editor from SoCal is a boorish timesink, making an unknown number of faulty changes to grammar and spelling, and provoking conflict in every interaction with other editors. The style of Gabucho181 is completely different than that. I would be happy to see a block placed on the IP6 range while allowing talk page access. Binksternet (talk) 15:42, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this is not Gabucho181. Gabucho181 is located in South America, does not respond with wallsoftext, and does not have this level of English proficiency. Moreover, Gabucho181 likes to troll directly, antagonizing users and purposefully vandalizing pages. They perseverate typically on cartoons like Dan Vs. or Gravity Falls and have not been known to make grammar changes like this.
Goodness. I read this late last night and there were a couple comments, now it's all taken off. I'm not sure there's much I can contribute other than putting a few thoughts on the record just in case they may be needed in future. My encounter with the now-blocked IP was at Victoria (TV series). In its first episode, a court lady-in-waiting is forced to undergo a gynecological exam by court physicians when the Queen is lead to believe the lady is pregnant by an adversary of the Queen. Despite the fact the lady had no choice in the matter, and events followed which portrayed her as submitting under force, the IP removed the word force from the episode description, claiming that absent physical force in the manner of slaves, she wasn't forced to undergo the examination. I provided the Oxford dictionary (given this is a British show) definition of force, which includes action against will, and he let loose the dogs of war in a series of walls of text that are substantively unreadable. He adopts some lawyer-esque strategies that lead me to think he's either a para-legal worker of some sort or perhaps a law student who knows just enough to be dangerous: everything is on the attack, but at it's heart, simply says, "I'm going to limit the definition of force to a specific sort of physical force, and preclude the description of what happened to Lady Flora as force." As I noted at the time, this materially alters the motivation for the sequence of events that followed, and mis-represents what was done to the lady. His response was simply more words, and the addition of two additional threads picking at additional verbal nits.
My thanks to Cyphoidbomb for his help. I was told this might be an IP from the UK (despite the geolocation to the U.S., the IP uses some British English) who has argued against similar assaults on women, but apparently, that's not the case. Cyphoid stepped in when I hit a wall trying to get the issue resolved once it became apparent the IP was not discussing in good faith but simply playing word games. I'd also add, BMK, that User:2605:E000:9161:A500:7C06:FE51:3E78:B311 made one post in the thread, but the rest came from the IP above. Oh, and whoever thinks he's an academic, not on your Nelly. I'm an academic and this guy isn't playing in anything like the same pool. Oh, and one last odd thing: depending upon which geolocation site is used, the IP resolves to either Los Angeles County or Herndon, Virginia via Time Warner Cable. There's probably a reasonable explanation why, but I suspect he's actually in VA, since that location is more precise. ----Dr.Margi✉18:39, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Drmargi:: Thanks, I realized my error some time late last night, after the IP had been blocked. I also agree that when I went through Gabucho181's LTA page last night, it didn't seem much like this IP's behavior at all. Still, the IP did need to be blocked as an obvious troll and a timesink, despite the small percentage of their edits which were helpful. A net negative for sure. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:35, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the person's tendency to prefer British English, I believe this comes from learning English in India. Many of the articles that interest the person are related to Indian culture. Binksternet (talk) 20:02, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Funny you say that; I suspected the same thing just based on his syntax and word choice. ----Dr.Margi✉20:30, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can someone check into WP technology to understand why is it that I am bale to edit? I would not want people to think that I have somehow cracked the system. This is how I have access WP all along with all the varied assigned IP's. See Mark--no conspiracy.2605:E000:9161:A500:BC89:17B1:2FD6:DD67 (talk) 22:19, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You truly do not get it? I am doing absolutely nothing differne than in the past several months when editing WP. I go onto the website and this is what happens. It issues me a new account with a clean contiubtions list page. You make it out to sound as if I hav cracked the system. WP needs to lok ointo their syetm because there is a failure! Are you all conspiratorical idiots?
As the user is evading a block, I have applied a /64 range block for the same length of time as the block on the single IP address. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 22:59, 7 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was a latecomer to this, I’m afraid; the block evasion was obvious so... Having looked at this wall of text more closely, I see that the user has been disruptive and a block is warranted on those grounds. No comment on whether this is Gabucho181. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 10:45, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. A note for those who reverted this user’s edits here for ‘evading a block’, the block had in fact expired at 12:45 today. Nonetheless it was further disruptive behaviour hence the further 72 hours rangeblock (which expires on 15:18, 12 October). --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 15:47, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I read about this "discussion" on the internet and could not believe that it was true; is the proper way that Wikipedia deals with people that it feels are threat? That seams rather limited in your scope to exclude someone from defending themselves and at the same time being label contentious. It would seem that if you accuse someone then you have to leave the system open for rebuttal.76.169.36.143 (talk) 18:49, 9 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
MarkSewath has been CU-Blocked so I guess we can discount his input here. That does not resolve the IPs disruptive behaviour however. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:08, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
To the blocked IP
To the blocked IP: You are laboring under a fundamental misapprehension. When an editor is blocked, if they have an account, that account is mechanically prevented from editing. If they are using a single IP, that IP is mechanically prevented from editing. If they are what we refer to as an "IP-hopper" -- that is, someone who is either deliberately or through the action of their ISP-provider, using a different IP every time they log on, then a range-block can be applied to mechanically prevent IPs in a particular range from editing. However, the block is not for the specific account, IP, or IP range, the block is for the person doing the editing, which is this case is you. If, through no fault of your own, or by your deliberate machinations (it doesn't matter which), you are able to log on and find that you are not mechanically prevented from editing, you have a moral obligation not to take advantage of that situation. That is, you, yourself should restrict yourself from editing.
Now, if you are actually interested in helping Wikipedia, you will follow this restriction, because by evading your block (which is what editing when you're blocked but not mechanically prevented from editing is called), you risk longer sanctions, up to and including eventually being banned from the site, in which case any edit you make can be reverted at any time by any editor regardless of its value. If you want to participate here, you must honor your block.
If, however, you're only interested in trolling and being disruptive, one of the best ways to show that is not to honor your block by continuing to evade it simply because there are holes in the system. You may believe that it's our responsibility to physically prevent you from editing when blocked, but it's actually your responsibility to show the Wikipedia community that you value being a part of it enough to follow the community's rules and policies.
So, the ball is entirely in your court. I have no doubt that you can continue to find ways of editing here illicitly, but by doing so you are sending a gigantic "Screw you" message to every editor here who endeavors to follow the rules to the best of their abilities. Such behavior will inevitably end up with your being banned, either by name or by description as a "Long Term Abuser." It may take a while, since Wikipedians are notorious for being fair-minded and giving editors many more breaks than I, personally, would give them, but it will happen.
That is a question that is best answered by those that offer their dick-waving to support those that accuse others of their dick-waving as so expressed by Cyphoidbomb. Personally, I find it impossible to dick-wave or even come close to it having been the end result of baying for blood that comes from the civil disturbances that have been experienced in Africa. Gender-reassignment is just a continued inconvenience to make things look pretty as the human mind is probably the last that we will truly understand what caused hurt that has no scare.
And then there are the countless who say that they never said anything. And that statement is absolutely true--they said absolutely nothing about how inappropriate some expressions used to thrust their accusations into the minds of others. Does WikiMedia want its subordinate bodies to reflect so badly upon the mother organization and its corporate sponsors. I guess there is a wisdom to having an organization of volunteers that no one person has to take responsibility for letting things get out of hand and making it adamantly absolutely that slights of character assassination are not appropriate forms of logic that weight the course of the organization. And that an organization that is unable to let stand the irritant of a paper cut so that people do not have to be mindlessly sacrificed.
So much for those that offered themselves up as the greatest accumulation of the human mind since Dr. Frankenstein; and the other part that allowed themselves to be welcomed into the fold without overt declaration. But information that evolves from boasting is so much easier to find its own faulty base. Maybe, you all were not expecting that is how the cards got played. Let us hear it again from those that prefer emotion.2605:E000:9161:A500:4916:5F95:A9A5:D8C8 (talk) 06:19, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Disruptive IP editor associated with WikiInAction
In the past few days, an anonymous user (or users) posting from a range of IP addresses (listed below) has reverted at least one article with prior consensus, and claimed that volunteer editors are secretly being paid by me (a disclosed paid contributor) to approve changes I have proposed on talk pages, among other lesser and equally spurious charges. To be very clear, these allegations are false, without evidence, and disruptive to normal processes.
Brian Krzanich, CEO of Intel and a current client, where the IP has derailed an edit request I posted just yesterday; see Talk:Brian Krzanich
As purported evidence, the IP editor points to rather unhinged threads on Reddit's WikiInAction, including here and here. Finally, the IP editor also has a similar argumentative style and claims that my work violates EU disclosure laws as did the indef'd Inlinetext, who had previously tried to derail my proposed edits to the Mandell page in April (see here) although I have no way to know if there is in fact a connection.
Here are the IP addresses that have so far engaged in this behavior:
I (quite purposefully) do not spend much time at AN/I, so I am not quite sure what to do here. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. WWB Too (Talk · COI) 18:36, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Response : I am not connected to what is published on Reddit. I am not IP 103.xxx or the other user he has named. I have strong objections founded in policy to the way WWB_Too is conducting his paid editing business by using unsuspecting Wikipedians who insert his content in good faith. I agree with the Reddit poster that User:GabeIglesias was paid to insert content on behalf of WWB_Too after all established editors avoided doing so. Such behaviour on Wikipedia only demeans the article subjects and highlights that they are using paid editors to overcome the strong anti-paid editing sentiment of the ordinary unpaid volunteers who are the backbone of this movement. If at all I am to be blocked, let DocJames block me. 101.57.250.211 (talk) 02:18, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Think this is yet another example of a Public Promotion company subcontracting WP editing to a cheap Indian firm. Block IP range. Aspro (talk) 22:10, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What exactly are you implying here ? Which is the Public promotion company ? Who has subcontracted WP editing to a cheap Indian firm ? Which is that cheap Indian firm ? These are serious allegations designed to belittle editors of Wikipedia who opt not to open accounts. 101.57.250.211 (talk) 02:10, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what's going on beyond simple harassment of a disclosed paid editor, but I merged the new draft for Brian Krzanich's article, after making a couple of content changes to maintain some controversial yet noteworthy information. My comments are on the talk page. TimTempleton(talk)(cont)23:28, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There is no harassment of WWB_Too. Apparently he used an undisclosed paid editor to insert his paid content draft on Robert A. Mandell which another IP 103.30.143.51 objected to and reverted. Are we to assume that it is now policy that drafts suggested by disclosed paid editors can be directly inserted into articles without achieving consensus on talk pages first ? Do such drafts by disclosed paid editors get some special status under policy ? If so, why not just handover all editing activiy to paid editors so that unpaid volunteers can all go home. Also, I am an Intel stock holder and I would like to know if Intel is indulging in such kind of manipulative activities on Wikipedia ? 101.57.250.211 (talk) 02:10, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I will let the smart people address all this talk of servers and whatnot. In the meantime, I reverted the IP and reinstated the new/merged version of the Krzanich article, with thanks to timtempleton. Drmies (talk) 02:23, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - No. As presented at WP:DRN, it was a conduct dispute involving allegations of undisclosed paid editing. DRN is not a forum for such disputes. WP:COIN is, and this noticeboard is. The thread at DRN was closed as a conduct dispute. Besides, DRN does not accept disputes that are also pending here. Deal with it here (or don't deal with it). Robert McClenon (talk) 03:32, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oh really. And you just happened to be passing through India when you decided to troll and harass editors here. Your easy familiarity with the Wiki suggests to me that you have history here; do you have, or have you had in the past, an account here? --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:14, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Is 'Oh really' a statement or a question ? Yes, I just happen to be travelling around India just now. No, I did not decide to troll and harass editors here. I have no history here. As a Wikipedia administrator surely you have complete access to Wikipedia's history records from which you can answer your own questions (which in any case I am not obliged to respond to under very strong EU privacy regime). Instead of throwing around terms like "harass", "troll" and "disruptive" why not address the issue of how Wikipedia administrators see Wikipedia's European readers are protected against ghostwritten paid content on Wikipedia articles. Why is there no in-article disclosure under WP:COVERT, or are we Europeans expected to go about reading user and talk pages to discover commercial affiliations of American content writers ? What is the evidence for this paid editor's mischievous allegation that I am associated with Wikiinaction ? What is the evidence that WWB_Too is acting on behalf of Brian Krzanich (as distinguished from Intel) ? For regulatory anti-trust reasons I flatly state It is not conceivable that Brian Krzanich has authorised WWB_Too to rewrite his Wikipedia article. It is a very serious issue for Brian Krzanich if he has done so. Accordingly I state that WWB_Too is lying if he states he is acting for Brian Krzanich. If other admins like "Drmies" (who never went to law school to understand the issue I highlight) are now openly inserting paid edits from Mr. Krzanich by "demanding cuts" and "at least a week in the condo on the Gulf Coast" from the paid editors, it is a serious issue for us dour Europeans. In case of Mr. Krazanich (BTW did I mention I am an Intel stakeholder) I believe that the blatantly advertising text inserted is supplied by Intel (not Krzanich) via North of Nine Communications, and the copyright of the text probably vests in Intel. Accordingly, I had asked WWB_Too for a copy of all the contracts involved which he has refused to provide. Instead WMF's user "Drmies", who claims to to be a senior administrator / arbitrator (without a law degree), was induced to add Intel's copyrighted material against expectations of reward. Usually when "pump and dump" scams take place by rewriting Wikipedia entries it implies that the corporate behind it is in deep (usually regulatory) trouble. NB: "INTEL" is not listed by Nof9 as their client on the North of Nine Communications website, further evidence that WWB_Too is lying (or puffing himself up). 101.57.254.247 (talk) 02:30, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There is a attempt by Intel's new PR company to misuse the Brian Krzanich article to spin doctor Intel's numerous controversies like his role in systematically using conflict minerals to lower costs till it became illegal to do so in 2010. Nof9 (talk) 05:09, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
AB10002 - paid editing + potential legal threat
AB10002 (talk·contribs) is a single-purpose account that has been targeting the Julie Payette article for a few months now. They have stated that "our team is watching the page and constantly removes the false allegations". The supposed "false allegations" are verified by multiple reliable sources and have been widely reported in the Canadian media; some are not even remotely controversial, such as basic information about her marriages [6] or minor criticisms about her appointment process [7]. The "team" behind AB10002 appears to think they have the right to control what content appears on Payette's Wikipedia page. Their most recent edit [8] made an accusation that "person(s) have attempted to deliberately smear the reputation of this public figure by posting false irrelevant information..." (edit summary was cut off). Given the legal phrasing used and the editor's apparent governmental connections, to me this sounds like a potential accusation of defamation and an attempt to intimidate editors into relinquishing control of what content appears on the page. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 10:45, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I smell an Aboriginal fighting weapon. This is the sort of non-content (Person had a road accident. It was an accident. So what?) that Ivar the Boneful has been edit-warring to re-insert into this BLP with the only edit-summary being "RV paid editor". Black Kite (talk)18:31, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's entirely possible for their edits to be problematic for WP:COI reasons and yet still at least partially correct. The thing about the car accident has never actually had a compelling reason presented why it needed to be in the article at all — sure, it's sourceable, but nobody's ever answered my talk page question about whether it was noteworthy or relevant to note in her biography. As I noted in that comment, it's sourceable that politicians show up at community events to announce government donations and hand over plastic novelty cheques — but there's no noteworthy or relevant reason why documenting each individual instance of that needs to happen in an encyclopedia, so the mere fact that it's sourceable isn't a sufficient condition by itself. What needs to be shown is not just that the car accident is sourceable — what needs to be, but hasn't been, shown is a reason why it matters to an encyclopedia article about her. Yes, it's true that a person with a direct COI doesn't get to control the content of the article — but it's also true that the information hasn't been demonstrated as needing to be there at all. So, yeah, I think there's a curved hunting weapon in the vicinity too. Bearcat (talk) 18:53, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"most probably a sock" ... well feel free to open up an SPI, Dr. K., though I think you might find it pretty difficult to explain how an Australian editor is doing so using an IP address traceable to New York City. You might wish to consider the old saying about glass houses – someone on the article talkpage has already pointed out that you seem to have made several edits identical to those of AB10002. Or perhaps you just both share a similar distaste for the mention of divorce? Dr.K. 21 July, AB10002 6 October – quite the coincidence! It's quite interesting that you've managed to magically find your way to this ANI thread despite not being notified and no mention of it being made in any edit summaries – and yet AB10002 was notified of it. It's almost as if you logged in as AB10002, saw the notification, and quickly switched accounts to maintain the illusion of neutrality. That boomerang just keeps on spinnin'! Ivar the Boneful (talk) 19:32, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would HIGHLY suggest that you do not cast aspersions on editors being socks without some rather concrete proof as you just did. To be blunt, the edits regarding the traffic incident were indeed inappropriate and should been removed, per the talk page discussion. If AB10002 hadn't removed it, another editor would. Also not every sordid detail of their life needs to be in the article, especially if it doesn't add to the actual substance of the article. This discussion regarding what should and should not be on the page needs to go to the article talk page. RickinBaltimore (talk) 19:39, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) @Ivar the Boneful: In my reply above, I mentioned that the IP was most probably a sock, but neither did I specify whose sock I suspected it was, nor did I did use your name. I am not sure why you automatically thought it was you I had in mind. As far as the rest of your aspersions, you just upgraded that big aboriginal hunting implement in the sky with a radar-homing sensor, and it is not pointing to me at all. I leave it up to you to guess its direction. Dr.K.19:53, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can I suggest you strike that particularly ludicrous assertion, Ivar the Boneful? I would suggest that you alternatively open an SPI against Dr. K, but since you have absolutely zero convincing evidence, there's probably no point in doing that; indeed, the only likely action that is going to be taken here is against you for casting aspersions. Which would be unfortunate for someone whom, looking at your contributions, is mostly a positive. Black Kite (talk)13:43, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What began as a content dispute at the list of current world boxing champions has devolved into a conduct dispute filled with lies and personal attacks. At talk, I have tried to discuss the (albeit bizarre) intricacies of the WBA's world title rulings with User:David-golota, but all he does is make repeated accusations of ownership:
All of which are ludicrous. Anyone who observes my edits at the article will see that I have never displayed WP:OWN behaviour—for many years I have collaborated with plenty of editors in making routine stats-related updates. A week ago, User:David-golota removed official WBA terminology ([9]), which I reverted with an edit summary ([10]). His next revert and edit summary accused me of ownership ([11]), which is instead what he himself seems to be doing. His way or the high way, others be damned.
What I am claiming is WP:V (namely the official WBA site, which supports my stance), but he chooses to ignore that. Along with the constant ownership lies, he also thinks every one of my posts is a personal attack. I can't get through one interaction with him without an accusation of personal attacks—whereas again, it is his antagonistic tone that needs serious work. Granted, I have indeed said "Screw you" in response to him labelling my edits as "BS". A bit of tit-for-tat, but that's about it as far as personal attacks go on my side.
From thereon, it's just the same thing over and over again—he won't back down from his false accusations, and I won't discuss anything with him until he stops with the battleground antics. All the while, the actual content dispute doesn't move an inch. Every time I do respond, it's a personal attack as far as he's concerned. I even tried reaching out and calling him "Buddy" (which isn't an insult where I come from), but he took great offence to that. So I'm at a loss. There isn't going to be a handshake from either party, virtual or otherwise. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:12, 13 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Follow-ups from User:David-golota:
"Your level of arrogance is beyond what I ever thought anybody could have on this site." – That's some pretty bold stuff right there, and verging on personal attack. Or, he's looking in a mirror and seeing himself. In my first post at the talk page, all I did was lay out my rationale. He then came in with all guns blazing, and hasn't stopped since. He's somehow got it into his head that I've hurled scathing insults at him, which isn't true (besides my abovementioned "Screw you" response; just the one, freely admitted). Since he was the first to bring up tone, and isn't letting it go, I'm not sure what he actually wants—for me to grovel at his virtual feet and tell him he's right?
"You refuse to read the links from WBA official website because of my tone?" – I've presented my sources, but all he's concerned about is conduct and my tone. How is discussion meant to advance with two issues at hand? I've said repeatedly that I'll discuss the actual content dispute if he drops the conduct dispute, but he brings up the latter every time. Likely any response I give at this point will rejected as WP:OWN.
I'm tempted to go for WP:3O to see if it's just me against whom he has an agenda, but I absolutely will not back out of the content dispute just because he's not a fan of my words. As far as I know, WP:DRN isn't the right place, as that's not for conduct disputes. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 02:19, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I never reported anybody, as I do not like to escalate. But today is the day, because today my quite sleepy talkpage was suddenly bombarded by a few comments, that I consider openly insulting. Then I discovered it was not only about me. Sorry, if I miss some formalities, I'll explain as I can.
1) Personal attack. The user concerned, Ninjaoust, seems to have been very dissatisfied that I deleted quite insignificant and dubious addition to Romanization of Persian. So he created a sockpuppet and tried to insinuate me of lacking of civility on my talk page[13]. Then he saw it was not enough, and started, as an IP, to openly insult me[14]. Finally he decided to do formalities, and left a "warning"[15]. And again he could not help but indirectly insult me, that is he did what he tried to accuse me of. All three messages I see quite impolite and insulting. I am not sure whether it was the same person (need to be investigated, but the duck test is enough for me for now), or Ninjoust just campaigned his friends to do so. The latter would be even worse, as it would look like a deliberate group attack on me. In any way, I see such attention towards my persona as unnerving and such comments as quite unpleasant.
2) Sockpuppetry. As per above. I suppose I need to open an investigation?
3) Disruptive editing. As another user quite showed, Ninjoust is known for many disruptive edits, particularly creating and promoting hoax transliterations/alphabets.
I'm not sure what has to be done, I never reported on the AN. I just felt that it had to be reported. Insults I can stand, but issue #3 clearly has to be addressed some way. Of course, I could have talk to the user myself on this issue, but I'm hesitant. My feeling he won't understand and won't listen to me.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 14:50, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I can save a little time here. The sockpuppet is confirmed as Ninjoust's sockpuppet (no comment on the IP addresses). I've not blocked the main account yet - I would have gone for a short block, but I'll leave that for others to have a look at the alleged disruptive edits. Oh, and you should ignore the latest post your talk page, as that was someone else entirely. -- zzuuzz(talk)17:18, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, this hasn't addressed the disruptive editing behaviour of the editor in question, nor the slow, but ongoing, content additions to multiple national anthem articles where there are no reliable sources for the anthems, and certainly no sourcing for the transliterations which don't follow any known universal system I'm aware of. Every time there's an edit, multiple IPs and other meat(?) come out to reformat the articles, etc. Since when is Wikipedia a circular source for anybody to translate a primary source in a language other than English (that's just the few instances where there is even some form of reliable primary source)... most particularly small language groups that can't be WP:V? That's all the stuff of Wiki Source, anyhow. I've been meaning to report this activity for some time, but just haven't had the energy. I can go on reverting until the cows come home, but the hub of activity keeps kicking in and I've reached the end of my tether. Apologies: I'm not trying to pout, but I'm going through chemo and my input has been limited recently (not in it for the sympathy, either !)... --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:07, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Communication and sourcing issues
Hichem algerino has been editing for years. If you look at User talk:Hichem algerino, you will see warnings going back to 2014 about creating unreferenced articles, but this is still going on. Hichem has ignored dozens of messages about this, including other editors saying if it doesn't stop they may mass delete his creations (that was back in 2015, no improvement), threats of blocks for continually adding unreferenced information from 6th July 2016, an actual block showing on 30 July 2016, more warnings about a potential block for adding unreferenced information on 25 August 2016, same on 12 December 2016, 31 May 2017, 2 July 2017, and about 20 messages from me, mainly on different articles, just since August, all about creating unreferenced articles or completely blank articles. Hichem has been reminded that WP:Communication is required but only seems to have responded to one of the more than one hundred talk page messages, and that was to say 'I will try' (to add sources). I appreciated that but there has been no change in behaviour or further communication, he continues to create unreferenced articles. I feel I've exhausted all other avenues to solve this. Boleyn (talk) 17:44, 14 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
He seems well intentioned but I suspect there may be something of a language barrier. I’ve dropped a line in French on his talk page; let’s see where we go from there. I’ll have a look at his creations as well (I’ve added a couple of sources to Djamel El Okbi to start with). --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 10:56, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Malcolmxl5, I saw your message to Hichem algerino and I agree that the language may well be an issue. However, Hichem has still not communicated here, and has been able to explain his referencing on his own talk page, which shows he does understand and his answer does not indicate he understands the importance of reliable sourcing. His English is certainly good enough to understand the main point of the messages, and I think his understanding is probably clear. Hichem, can you please communicate here? Do you understand that articles must have references? Will you start responding to messages? There are plenty of people here happy to help you, but we can't have editors persistently creating articles which aren't verified. It might be worth you reading WP:V. Best wishes, Boleyn (talk) 15:54, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As i told Malcolmxl5 i could not find sources on the Net i tried so much but without value, sometimes it is based on sources from French Wikipedia or some videos from YouTube and dzfoot.com However, i will not create new pages without source --Hichem algerino (talk) 18:05, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Boleyn, I was looking at the latest unreferenced issue raised, 1999–00 Algerian League Cup, the sources Hichem is using are in the external links section rather than the references section, a minor error. The previous one, 2013–14 MC Oran season - Hichem was working on that for a few days and by the time he finished, there were two citations and a source embedded in the main body of the article. Similarly, for the one prior to that, 2013–14 CR Belouizdad season, it now has 14 citations and a source embedded in the main body of the article. So, it’s getting done but perhaps not before the articles are reviewed. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:25, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Some have had sources added, but most, like [16] still have no sources two months after a message has been sent to Hichem, a message he hasn't bothered to answer. This is the case for many of the articles. I would also say that Hichem has been asked on more than one occasion if the links he has added to an 'external links' section are actually his sources, but he hasn't taken the time to answer. This may be an oversight, but I don't know that they were his sources, or if he had any sources. This is no big issue for one or two answers, but is a big issue for dozens. Hichem, you are still not demonstrating that you understand WP:RS, WP:V or that WP:Communication is required. Please comment on this. Malcolm is offering you good advice and support, which is great, but I have spent hours reviewing your articles and messaging you, all of which you have ignored. We need to know if you will stop creating articles without WP:RS. Boleyn (talk) 18:22, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hichem algerino, you are continuing to edit but not replying to this thread. You will have received pings plus should have this watchlisted. As the concern is partially around a lack of communication, this is particularly concerning. I again remind you that WP:Communication is required. ANI is a serious process, and I think everyone always prefers if the issues can be properly discussed and resolved, and a block avoided. Please communicate so we can help. Boleyn (talk) 06:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hichem algerino, you have now agreed not to create articles without sources, can you please engage in this thread, hopefully so we can close this with no action needed? The questions you have not responded to, are do you understand that sources need to be clear (not labelled as 'external links' if they are actually your sources) and reliable (not Youtube and other Wikipedias aren't good either, see WP:RS and WP:V. Will you start to respond when other editors take the time to message you, and do you understand that WP:Communication is required on Wikipedia? If you will keep to these in future, we have no problem, but you do need to take part in this thread. Boleyn (talk) 14:51, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Boleyn, I do not have anything to add i do not know what the problem is now. i said I will not open any new page without a source and about [17] there is no source because it is an individual work of me and it is impossible to find a source And relied on the arrangement of the Algerian Ligue Professionnelle 1 already located in Wikipedia look here Algerian Ligue Professionnelle 1 season by season --Hichem algerino (talk) 16:52, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for responding, Hichem. I'll try to word my unanswered questions differently so hopefully you will understand them. Do you understand that you should answer messages other editors send you? Do you understand that you shouldn't create articles without reliable sources? Do you understand that your own work, Youtube and other Wikipedias are not acceptable sources? Best wishes, Boleyn (talk) 15:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You don't have to respond to every message (although it's polite to do so, especially if they have asked you a question). However, according to WP:Communication is required: If you are getting multiple complaints on your talk page or on an article talk page about your editing, you are expected to either stop the action that is causing the complaints, or discuss it with the community of editors at the appropriate venue. That would cover the dozens of messages sent to you about sourcing. Boleyn (talk) 16:31, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hichem algerino, thank you for adding sources to some off your articles, this is much appreciated. However, you have still not answered the three questions above, can you please answer them? Thanks, Boleyn (talk) 06:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Persistent disruptive behavior by IP 67.165.17.94
For a few months I and a few other editors have been dealing with issues related to 67.165.17.94(talk·contribs·WHOIS) including sockpuppetry, repeated insertion of erroneous information, and repeated insertion of unreferenced or improperly referenced content on articles related to elections and political parties on Wikipedia, and so far have been unable to bring a stop to such disruptive behavior despite attempts to direct them to stop. There's countless examples of this, but as an example, these include:
Insertion and restoration of erroneous information on articles
The latest incident involves the color of the Peter Pilz List – they keep attempting to restore what they call the "correct" color for the list, despite the fact that the light green used in the polling graph/article was literally my own arbitrary addition which I since realized was erroneous given that the party's paraphernalia is white/gray and it's mostly represented with white/gray in media sources. Despite this, they're insisting that that same light green is somehow the "correct" color – despite my acknowledgement that my own addition of light green on Wikipedia was in fact my error and that the party color is white/gray. (I've previously ignored 3RR in similar cases with this IP with the same justification that their edits were blatantly incorrect, despite their repeated attempts to restore them.) Mélencron (talk) 17:20, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This is very reminiscent of the behaviour of serial sockpuppeteer Greekboy12345er6. All of the cases will be stale, but it might be worth looking at them and seeing if it quacks to you as well. RolandR (talk)19:53, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There is a group of teens on reddit who do this as a form of graffiti and time-sinks. Just teenage hi-jinks. Nothing to worry about. Nof9 (talk) 05:16, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Country of film production – long-term edit warring from east UK
Somebody using IPs from the east part of the UK (around Norfolk) has been disrupting film articles for more than a year. This person edit-wars about the country of production as listed in the infobox. The vandal is currently blocked as Special:Contributions/94.185.135.206 and globally blocked as Special:Contributions/81.106.30.36, but many more IPs are involved. A fine selection of IPs showing the pattern of multiple reverts may be seen at Scott Pilgrim vs. the World – a film article that this person keeps returning to.
In August, this person edit-warred from France using Special:Contributions/46.218.99.78. Later that month they returned to the Norfolk area.
So the question is how do we stop this person? A a handful of rangeblocks could be set in place but there would be collateral damage, I think. Any ideas? Binksternet (talk) 19:51, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You aren't going to be able to use rangeblocks here. These are BT Broadband ranges, the biggest provider in the UK. Even blocking a /24 would have collateral and as you can see these aren't on the same /16 (or even the same /8!), let alone /24. They're also very dynamic - my BT IP flips around all of those 81x and 86x ranges as well as a couple of others. If the vandalism has a set pattern I'd suggest an edit filter at WP:EFR. Black Kite (talk)20:24, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
As a UK person, I know geolocation does not work in the UK - all you get is the location of the ISP office, not the editor. My IP would suggest South London, when I'm in North Lancashire. Ronhjones (Talk)21:49, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Depends on the website used, the provider, and the type of connection. The two used on the Geolocate links on IP talk pages are this one, which has my current IP spot on to a couple of miles, and this one, which is 200 miles off. However if all of those IPs above are (or were, as they're dynamic) coming up with a similar location, it's probably likely to be fairly accurate. Black Kite (talk)22:05, 15 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This sounds suspiciously like
The owner of this account is suspected of abusively using multiple accounts.
Targeting specific, anonymous vandals can turn out to be impossible. Have you thought about adding some protection to the recently vandalized articles? Dimadick (talk) 05:41, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
In my experience, BT customers are often allocated IP addresses from a large pool of /23s and /24s. You certainly can't range block a /16 from a BT, but these smaller ranges are sometimes clear of collateral damage. At a glance, 86.157.160.0/23(talk·contribs·WHOIS), 86.157.161.0/24(talk·contribs·WHOIS), and 86.157.135.0/24(talk·contribs·WHOIS) look like him. 81.156.136.0/23(talk·contribs·WHOIS) looks like him, too, but it's stale. The others are harder to nail down, but they're likely /24s. I guess if it keeps up, I could probably do a series of range blocks. The problems I see are that 1) he doesn't seem to edit all that often (only on two days this month so far?), 2) it could potentially take a large number of range blocks to even be useful, and 3) page protection might be a better choice if specific articles are being regularly targeted. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:38, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
What NRP means here by 'collateral damage' is not that range blocks wouldn't block a large amount of IPs, it means that there is little editing currently in those ranges. As NRP points out, to be effective you would need a number of range blocks covering a huge amount of potential IP's given the UK ISP's method of allocation. And BT is more problematic than most, given how often it changes around its broadband allocation (on a whim sometimes). We don't really want to be blocking indefinitely huge amounts of IP's just because currently there is little activity. We arnt talking a school block here. Some form of edit filter would be better if possible, if not, its something that might need to be lived with until the point where ENWP makes it compulsory to register to edit. Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
More to the point, BT Broadband operates on the principle of every subscriber's router being available for every other subscriber to use if they're out of range of their home router, to create seamless nationwide wi-fi coverage, so provided you switch your home router (to which your system will default) off, your IP address will literally change every few seconds. A workable rangeblock on a BT range means knocking out the entire country. ‑ Iridescent09:29, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Won't XFF filtering/targetting work here if BT can be persuaded to come onboard ? Or has that 2013 program been abandoned? Nof9 (talk) 05:19, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Kevin Deutsch, part II. Single-purpose accounts, neutrality, self-published, COI, NOTHERE issues.
User:Ballastpointed was blocked for 1 week, but things have not improved, and the sock / meatpuppet account User:AlexVegaEsquire instantly stepped in as soon as Ballastpointed was blocked (diff). As such, I'd ask for sanctions to be taken against either both or neither of them. I'm not asking for a Sockpuppet investigation because, thanks to tags, it seems likely that Ballastpointed is the user's mobile phone account - almost all their edits are tagged as such - and AlexVegaEsquire is their desktop account. So they likely have different IPs even if they're the same person. But it doesn't matter, because WP:DUCK applies - both accounts are single-purpose accounts who have never edited anything other than Kevin Deutsch. Talk page collaboration has also stopped, not that it ever went very far to begin with. For example, I responded quickly to an Oct 10 edit on the talk page (diff), no reply, I cautiously make my edit on Oct 12, which is promptly reverted within hours (diff).
Without getting too deep into the content dispute, suffice to say there's a fundamental failure to agree on what sources say. Ballastpointed / Alex seem to deny not merely the claims against Deutsch (which is fine, and good per WP:BLP; Wikipedia shouldn't state in its own authorial voice what happened), but also deny the claims happened at all and bury the scandal under the rug, despite this scandal being by far the most notable thing about Deustch - for example, repeatedly removing from the lede that Deutsch was accused of inventing convenient quotes for his news stories, despite multiple sources accusing him of just that (example source if you're curious). Again, Wikipedia shouldn't necessarily say he did actually fabricate the quotes, but reporting the accusation and the fact that the quotes/sources were unable to be confirmed is perfectly legit. They also like to quote WP:SELFPUB sources very extensively... I think that the article already over-quotes Deutsch himself as is, when he is not a neutral source and is making a number of self-serving claims.
I should note that in fairness, some of Ballast / Alex's contributions have been fine, and others are stylistic preferences on emphasis that editors can legitimately disagree over. I had hoped that they might chill out. However, their general style of instantly reverting to their preferred revision isn't the way Wikipedia should work. I might have been willing to let it go for some of the more minor changes, but when I tried waiting them out, they used that as an opportunity to cautiously include more dramatic revisions (example diff; this was from October 8 when I tried letting an October 5 edit stand), so I think this edit war will last forever as is. If you think that the most recent revision looks harmless or too minor to care about, it might be, but Ballast will use it as an opening to revert the article to how it looked a month ago eventually, which was a straight-up puff piece that excised almost all of the scandal. They are WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia or reflect the sources, they're here to fluff Kevin Deutsch's article.
As a side note. In my opinion, these two users are most likely Deutsch himself. It perfectly fits the pattern of someone obsessed with just one article and making it as admiring as possible and adding in links to Deutsch's blog (diff) and using the same phrasing as Deutsch from his website (e.g. crowing about his fifteen year career... as if that's something unusual among journalists. blog, diff). Ultimately, this is largely irrelevant, but I just figured I'd throw this out there. (They have denied having a COI, for the record. They just "care about accuracy".) SnowFire (talk) 04:24, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm unclear as to why my accurate edits continue to be reverted. They are clear, concise, accurate, objective, contain indisputable facts, and comply with Wikipedia's living persons policy. Alternatively, the edits made by @snowfire are inaccurate, presumptive, conclusory, and violate the LP policy. I believe his edits constitute vandalism, and that he is an author of one or more of the sources for this article. He could also be a party with a grudge against article subject. Either way, he has a clear/obvious conflict of interest, as is demonstrated by his one-sided edits. I request an objective party arbitrate this dispute.
As I have stated numerous times, I have no connection to article subject. I am simply a person with interest in the controversy (having learned of it via Wikipedia). I don’t see why my revisions are being subjected to vandalism when they are neutral and harmless. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ballastpointed (talk • contribs) 21:58, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Power~enwiki: True, that would be one way to do it... but per my comments in the AFD, I think that Deutsch is notable enough, and would rather normal editor discipline be applied here to stop the edit war. SnowFire (talk) 23:50, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I would support deletion at this point. The back and forth is completely absurd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ballastpointed (talk • contribs)
@Buaidh: I am sorry about that. The history and recent contributions (NPA in the template discussions, for instance) are very troubling. I have left a warning note on their talk page, and I hope this will stop similar behaviours from this user. Alex ShihTalk05:40, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Not multiple socks, it’s multiple different people, as you can see from the different ip addresses. It’s a cohort of over 70000 people. You can’t win — Preceding unsigned comment added by FFalex (talk • contribs) 05:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment from non-administrator: Obviously I can't do anything to act on this note, but why not cascade-protect anything to do with mangoes or Australian education and ask good faith editors to suggest edits in the talk page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by TomBarker23 (talk • contribs) 13:30, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Current page protection hasn't been enough to stanch the flow, regarding the use of a poem in an Australian school. JNW (talk) 10:59, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Requesting Assistance on Persistent Disruptive editing by user
Requesting assistance. A non-registered user of IP-address 116.15.94.199 had been repeatedly reverting contents without any specific rationale (except for one, but should have raised it up on discussion instead of a forceful reverting action) or raising any rationale up on the discussion. This is despite warnings by multiple users and a block applied a year ago (as dated on the block log). Failed attempts had been made to reach out to the user via the talk page or the edit descriptions (basically much of the actions appropriate under a extended confirmed-user privilege). Lyg 2001 (talk) 11:18, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Suspected IP sock of blocked User:PavelStaykov who is an edit-warrior, made personal attacks against me in English on the edit summary. Check here please: [19]. He is calling me terrorist and Macedonian Muslim. Jingiby (talk) 12:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Reporting Gugi2001 for edit-warring and disruptive editing
Problems started with a sweeping change by Gugi2001(talk·contribs·deleted contribs·logs·filter log·block user·block log) to the Enis Bytyqi article ( link) with the edit summary being "Correction!". It was full of issues: typos, broken grammar, unexplained removal of references, addition of broken links. For that reason, I reverted the change before successively implementing constructive changes from the user's massive edit (1, 2, 3).
Gugi2001's next revert ("Correction the apps and goals!") occurred another ten days later
Since then an IP editor has twice (1, 2) tried to reinstate Gugi2001's changes. I don't think it is too far a stretch to assume this is the same user: Gugi2001 last edited three days ago, the IP made changes a day later.
I realise I should probably have reported this much earlier, and to the edit-warring noticeboard. I am also aware of the fact that I reverted more often than I should have.
I am now reporting Gugi2001 here for multiple issues:
Edit-warring, at the same time lack of any communication, no response to attempts to discuss changes on Talk pages
It looks like the article Donald B. Smith is causing this problem. Obvious WP:NLT is obvious, and Cbssport17 should have discussed this rather than making a threat. Possible WP:COI or WP:AUTOPROB here as well. Unfortunately, Wikipedia cannot use first hand knowledge and has to rely on what secondary sources have said.-♦IanMacM♦(talk to me)05:23, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Meanwhile I was trying to update the article with Smith's wife's death using his official county bio, through edit conflicts. I have also condensed the lawsuit material and added a second news source. There was no need for a threat at all, so silly. Yngvadottir (talk) 05:31, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Don't agree here. Cbssport17 removed the investigation info and replaced it with election info. here left a misleading ES not mentioning the removal. Jim1138 (talk) 06:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I hadn't seen that particular edit. That's about the upcoming election; I was trying to find results of the last one, which is what's encyclopedic. Yngvadottir (talk) 06:12, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Hence I added that he was cleared. I don't want to overload the article with references to this matter, and I cut it back considerably on BLP grounds as well as pure UNDUE, but I've searched for references to the elections he's won, to use as counterbalancing refs, and haven't found any, just repeated statements that he has been reelected each time. I hope more experienced BLP/political editors will further balance the article. I just dove in. Yngvadottir (talk) 07:27, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Hammersoft: Yes, I'd noticed, since in 2013 that editor also uploaded a slew of images to Commons that I was getting up the courage to mass nominate as likely copyvio/inadequate licence: commons:Category:Donald B. Smith. The other Cbssport accounts either have not edited or seem to me to have no relevant edits. Maybe a lost password situation; to supplement your ping I'm going to message Cbssport7 on their user talk. Yngvadottir (talk) 20:41, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
All of their image uploads on Commons are now up for deletion, most of them in a group nomination. It's blatantly evident they were just uploading images they found on the Internet for most of it. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:44, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
A downside; in that nomination, we're going to lose File:Sheriff Don Smith 14.jpg. This would be a correct deletion, as we can't confirm the provenance of the image. I'm quite certain it came from the U.S. Army, but I can't prove it. Also; regardless of the legal threat, it appears Cbssport17/Cbssport7 has a direct conflict of interest and is likely in violation of WP:PAID. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:01, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
SALT needed, potentially NOTHERE
Hi all,
Sorry for putting this here, Twinkle's RFPP module is crashing for me.
Over the past year or so, User:Shahriar al mahmud has repeatedly attempted to create autobiographies which are WP:NOTWEBHOST violations. Just recently Shahriar Al Mahmud and his userpage were created, both of which I've tagged for speedy deletion. SALT may be needed on all capitalisation forms of the name as previous talk page warnings have indicated that he has used camel case to avoid SALT protection.
@DrStrauss: Done. This could probably have been done by contacting individual admin though, instead of coming to AN/I. And I am puzzled that you cannot use RFPP without Twinkle. Why? Anyway, thanks for the heads up. Alex ShihTalk08:36, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am here to report Bachcell, an occasional editor who needs to be warned about inappropriately asserting his POV at talk pages and AFD. Some of my diffs may be older but Bachcell only edits maybe once or twice a month. However, during that brief time he expresses political beliefs and opinions almost never based on policy.
(Non-administrator comment): these aren't article edits, which is where we're concerned about POV. These are talk page discussions and deletion discussions, where we expect editors to have their own points of view about what is important. Having someone suggest that new guidelines should exist is not objectionable; that's where we get guidelines from. --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:36, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with Nat on this one. Those are venues where we generally expect people to have an opinion and express it. For AFD's its up to the closer to disregard and weight the !votes according to their backing in policy. As an aside, 'All politically motivated terrorist attacks are notable' is way down the list of 'stupid reasons to keep articles' as at least a politically motivated terrorist attack will have media coverage. Even the minor ones. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:49, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think Bachcell's behaviour is of concern. Some of their behaviour suggests WP:NOTHERE namely "Treating editing as a battleground" and using Wikipedia for advocacy and propaganda contrary to WP:NOTADVOCATE. I'm not suggesting a block, but I think some of this behaviour is problematic and needs to be watched. AfD and other discussions are not for expressing personal opinions, but policy-based judgement. Also, accusing other editors of being "apologists" for terrorism is incredibly uncivil. AusLondonder (talk) 14:51, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(Non-administrator comment) I have also been active at this AfD. And I want to point that it is a highly POV AfD on a hotly disputed topic (the French authorities are widely accused by journalists and politicians of diverting the adjudication of possibly terrorism-related crimes by administrative rulings of mental health causation. This is also an academic conversation. As the article cited by Icewhiz puts it, writing about the case at this AfD: "when confirmed diagnosis were present, there was a tendency to try to dismiss the possibility of terrorism altogether." What I am here to say is that there is a potential WP:BOOMERANG here because while Bachcell's opinion was POV, it is arguably not more POV than the TheGracefulSlick's nomination and AusLondoner's iVote, both of which make inaccurate assertions about the article, incident and sourcing that can be read as misleadingly POV. Not to mention the fact that this is one of a long series of AfDs by TheGracefulSlick that administrators have described as being WP:POINTy. Full disclosure, I have a POV on terrorism at variance with that expressed by GracefulSlick.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:02, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Can we stop trying to make this about a petty content dispute? If anyone has issues with an AFD with a fully relevant nomination statement, take it to my talk page. If I was incorrect in believing Bachcell's behavior is problematic a neutral (preferably admin) user can close this. But consider this: Bachcell's inaccurate, often insulting, opinions taint neutral talk page discussions, and I am not the first editor to point this out to him.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 16:30, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that WP:FORUM applies to edits such as this, and let's not forget that WP:NOT applies across the board, to all spaces, though not always in equal measure everywhere. An AfD doesn't run for much longer than a week, usually, so disruption is limited, as opposed to article talk pages. If I were closing an AfD like this, and I think I speak for most admins here, I would just utterly disregard that rather ridiculous post (we have enough conspiracy theories already) since it presents no argument based on policy. I am not sure that The Graceful Slick is making a good case here, but in principle, if this is what Bachcell does on Wikipedia, at some point there's been enough soapboxing. Drmies (talk) 18:10, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTHERE and WP:RGW apply to practically all of Bachcell's edits. I first became aware of this editor nearly 2-1/2 years ago because of their incessant fighting to add unsourced and poorly sourced incidents to List of Islamist terrorist attacks. Bachcell appears to be unable to unwilling to follow WP:V, WP:NPOV, or WP:NOR, three "core" content policies. Sadly, personal attacks such as this one are typical of their m.o. I recommend a close perusal of their talk page, their contribution history, and a perma-block. — Malik ShabazzTalk/Stalk01:59, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yesterday a new editor User:Amy. Firehoof. was created and started making a series of edits to articles related to Wales. These edits were mostly reverted, including by User:Andy Dingley and myself. The edits were problematic, and included this edit which attempted to remove the assertion that a specifically Welsh invention was Welsh, this edit that removed the Welsh language name of North Wales from the article about North Wales (with the alarming edit summary that this was "irrelevant info) and this edit which remove the Welsh name for a Welsh town, claiming that this was "fixing my own typo". Amy. Firehoof. entered into an edit war on Car gwyllt to get their changes into the article, including this change which is both factually inaccurate (see the citation in the article on Wales which establishes it is a country]] and irrelevant to that article. User:Amy. Firehoof. was blocked last night by User:Alexf for edit warring.
I was just writing up an SPI, but it's a lot of typing to do all the diffs and the massive crossover! This duck isn't quacking, it's neighing. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:04, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
This was going to be an ANEW post, but now we've started here...
Amy. Firehoof. appeared last night and walked straight into a triple 4RR edit-war over removing descriptions of anything Welsh as Welsh. This morning, a 31 hour block.
Tonight, a very obvious sock or meatpuppet appears. Repeats a couple of the edits and wikilove the original's talk: page. This is either a sock (during a block) or a meat, and CU might answer that.
When we start seeing POV edits to a local council page, from someone who's userpage claims naively, "Interested in learning more about the United Kingdom", then we have a problem. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:11, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
<ec>> That was rude. No wonder I got an EC. I added to the SPI while trying to create a new one. A veritable barnyard of neighing and quacking.18:12, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Questionable edits.
A few day ago I ran across KingQueenJack (talk·contribs) making questionable, unsourced edits in Carolingian Empire, which is on my watchlist. I went to 3RR and screeched to a halt there. Fortunately, so did KQJ. I invited KQJ to discuss things several times (see relevant talkpages). KQJ did not respond. Checking up on this user, I found the same kind of behavior is repeated in other articles (here and here) and other edits are generally not considered helpful. I think some admin action might be helpful. Kleuske (talk) 18:04, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, since you brought this here we might as well discuss things--I see basic incompetence (note how they changed a book title to help make their date change work: "H. Garipzanov, The Symbolic Language of Authority in the Carolingian World (c.751–843,884–888) (Leiden: Brill, 2008)"). Plus, we've blocked editors for being uncommunicative before. Drmies (talk) 18:18, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Most (if not nearly all) of the recent edits I'm going through by this user appear to be changes to text in Chinese, or at least include changes to text in Chinese. I'm wondering how well or fluent this user is with English... maybe this is what is contributing to the communication issues? ~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs)18:30, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
IP gets reverted, doesn't like it, starts being deliberately disruptive.
Natural gas is a Chinese invention. Fascinating story, well recorded contemporaneously in the West, but China was exploiting and even drilling for natural gas centuries ago.
The "invention by country" categories are a problem. They're a magnet for nationalistic trolls. They're unworkable per WP sourcing rules, I favour deleting the lot. But as that isn't happening (CfDs passim), we're stuck with trying to agree criteria for them via Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Technology#National_invention_categories. Fruitlessly as yet.
Today they reply, with a TL;DR wall of text (dumped needlessly onto my user talk too). But this isn't about what they think (or what I think), it's about what consensus has landed at - and for the country invention cats, we're using (and have used for a long time) a definition including both inventions and discoveries. So China is there for natural gas.
When reverted, they (unsurprisingly) edit-war, but then start getting nasty and adding obvious untruths to unrelated articles. This was added by another IP, and I reverted it as either vandalism or extreme lack of clue (the 2015 final retirement of Avro VulcanXH558 was a massive story in UK airspotting. It did not fly again in 2016, it is not flying again this year.). To re-add such a thing isn't about content accuracy, it's just trying to wind me up personally. See ANI above. I am tired of this sort of rubbish. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I hope that I'm not subject to prejudice, just because I choose not to formally register as a wikipedia user
TL:DR!?!? @Andy Dingley: I am insulted that you didn't read. It's not a "wall of text" it is reason explained! I took the time to vebosely explain to Andy Dingley the difference between discovery and invention and how in the context of technology there may be some confusion. I suspect bigotry, and I don't think that Andy Dingley is unique as a bigot against Wikipedians who choose, for one reason or another, to edit without formally registering for an account. The fact of the matter is whether if it's Jimbo Wales, an unregistered (AKA IP editor) or a rabid turtle that submits edits, all edit submissions should be judged on their own merit.
I read all of your vast screed (which you have dumped in three places) and found it equally confused in all three. You seem to think that being "natural" prevents natural gas from being an "invention", thus not belonging in the category. As you have been told repeatedly, it is included there as a discovery, not as an invention. This is our established practice for these categories.
I agree with you, it is better if I read your screeds rather than ignoring them; and so I do so. That does not make your inability to express yourself concisely any better.
I object to being termed a bigot and I see that as another personal attack from you today. In particular, none of my reaction to you as an IP has differed at all from how I would treat you as a registered editor. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:05, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) User blocked for that unwarranted attack. And suffice it to say this behaviour reminds me strongly of a particular user who disrupts national invention/discovery categories and casts aspersions as to the racial motivations of editors who revert them. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There are so many disruptive editors focussed on national invention categories (one of which is from the same geographical area as this editor) that I simply can't think which one of the many candidates it might be. But they're usually trying to include the tenuous, not exclude the obvious. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:08, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't check WHOIS or geolocation before blocking, calling people "deficient" and "bigot" is enough for me. The one from the same geographical area as this user is the one this reminds me of, though I haven't seen him edit from this city or this ISP. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:13, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have a lot of sympathy for the IP's position. (I don't know whether it's literally true, but the point is still valid even if Lincoln didn't say it “No,” Lincoln says. “Calling a dog’s tail a leg, doesn’t make it a leg.”) If we have a category that's demonstrably incorrect, we ought to fix it and not castigate people who make the "mistake" of assuming that words have meaning. How on earth did we decide that a category covering inventions also includes discoveries? It's tiresome to have to explain to readers that what Wikipedia means by notable isn't what is meant in general usage but at least those terms are close enough that confusion is understandable. If we now have to explain to readers that "inventions" doesn't really mean "inventions", we are reducing our own credibility.--S Philbrick(Talk)20:44, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's a pretty well known issue that these categories are problematic, and yeah there have been discussions seeking solutions for quite some time. That's all well and good; I believe Andy posted a link to one of the recent discussions somewhere above. I don't necessarily agree that the "invention" categories also include scientific (or other) discoveries, and at any rate the treatment is highly inconsistent, but I believe Andy is referring to the various "list of fooian inventions and discoveries", in which inventions and discoveries are pretty much always lumped together. It's not optimal, it's confusing, and it's a mess, but none of that warrants calling someone a bigot because they disagreed with an edit you made. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:53, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Switch the status of the players and the outcome becomes "Yes, the remark was inappropriate, but they were in the right as to the content issue so let's forgive the remark. Some editors need to grow thicker skins." I am bewildered that the double standard is so hard for reasonable people to see. ―Mandruss☎20:59, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
"How on earth did we decide that a category covering inventions also includes discoveries? "
Literally, because one of the warring socks (the pro-German one) advocated it, and it seems the most workable approach. The set of most interest is the set of both inventions and discoveries, so we us that as our basis. If you dislike the category names as "inventions" alone, then that's a choice which has been made, possibly as a de facto, but it's how it is and there is no advocacy on the Technology or Inventions projects to change it. IMHO, it's better to have such a linguistic discrepancy (which isn't unusual) than to have an over-verbose set of category names.
For this specific case, it was explained on the Talk:Natural gas page a month ago (unresponded to) and trailed to the longer discussion on the project page. The IP editor was welcome to discuss that, but they didn't: instead they just kept arguing that the agreement simply wasn't in place and reverting regardless.
Finally I would ask people commenting (and I cannot understand what Mandruss is on about) to read this ANI post: it's not about this categories issue (ANI doesn't do content) it's about an angry editor switching to obvious vandalism to re-insert an unsourced and challenged untruth on an unrelated article. That's just deliberate disruption, and that is an ANI issue. Andy Dingley (talk) 21:49, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have a new VPN IP: I was trying to submitted a minor edit to a wikipedia page and I got some error page. I reset my VPN connection and it worked. But, in hindsight I remembered seeing the word "blocked". When I check out the history of my previous IP it shows that @Ivanvector: has "executed administrative privilege" for an alleged attack. Let me be clear about two things: Firstly, let me be perfectly clear: my new IP was NOT a result of any attempt to circumvent an administrative ban and the edit I made was completely unrelated. Secondly, I make NO personal attacks! Please let me clarify: I call noone bigot! I specifically implied that it is possible that there is bigotry on Wikipedia and I honestly suspect this is so, but I don't know of any current specific examples! I explicitly stated that I did not think that Andy Dingley was a unique bigot who opposed so call "IP Users". I even explained on Andy Dingley's talk page that I, as a matter of practice, I assume good faith. (I clarified here that I, also, do suspect that not all act in good faith).
With regard to the article Natural gas, I thought it's clear that something that existed before humans could not have been invented by humans. I removed the "Chinese invention" category and not only made a note in the edit summary, but also explained on the talk page. Andy Dingley reverted my removal of the category they added without seeking consensus.
Long story short (maybe TL;DR?) If someone has an ally with admin privileges, it doesn't even matter right or wrong because the "IP" (derogatory for 'unregistered user') is going to get banned. --IPEditor (talk) 23:14, 17 October 2017 (UTC) 135.23.235.144 (talk) 23:21, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Sphilbrick - I agree with you regarding the IPs position and I completely understand the frustration that the IP feels regarding this issue - no doubt. I mean, yeah, calling "natural gas" an invention (in a way) does seem silly, even perhaps ridiculous to some. While I do make civility blocks for repeated personal attacks and agree with the civility block here, that does not mean that I don't see their viewpoint and understand why people who are frustrated over things (such as this category usage dispute) and resort to such behaviors. It's when users come to a noticeboard and begin becoming overly combative that makes me feel that there's a line between this understanding and where we have a responsibility to put an end to combative and disruptive uncivil behaviors if it's clear that it will only just continue. As it is fair to see calling natural gas an invention as silly, it's equally fair to see someone's incivility, personal attacks toward others, and their combative response here and over something like a category placement on a page - as equally silly (and also disruptive, against policy, and when it will only aim a discussion that should be or was originally on the pathway to consensus - to hostility and destructive reasoning). This is where I believe that the line between being understanding of the IP's frustration and incivility and attempting to help and defuse the heated situation ends, and the responsibility we have to reasonably take action to enforce Wikipedia's civility policies and put a stop to open and combative behavior and allow the other editors involved to stop being sucked into a toxic discussion environment begins. ~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs)00:35, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Stalking complaint
Latest example here: [52]. Please protect me. Rob has commented in all my BRFA's, my BAG membership and in many more places. Usually, he is the first to comment. I have evvidence that he as been sending emails about me to others. -- Magioladitis (talk)
...then post that evidence. It simply hasn't happened, and the unsupported accusation is a blatant personal attack. This is only being filed because I said 3 minutes ago that I planned to take this to ANI tonight when I get to a computer. He wanted my name in the section header instead of his. Magioladitis has been wikihounding me blatantly for weeks since he was desysopped. I've tried to have little contact with him, but that hasn't worked. I'll post a comprehensive list of evidence (actual evidence, with diffs and stuff) when I get home tonight. ~ Rob13Talk22:56, 17 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Rob said for me be removed from BAG member "This has been going on for years, and a bot operator that doesn't comply with the bot policy should obviously not be a BAG member" (06:39, 27 December 2016, emphasis is mine). [53]
Rob comments about me: "The behavior over half a decade is far below what's expected of any editor on the project" (20:04, 19 January 2017, emhasis is mine). [54]
Rob comments in a BRFA 2 minutes after I placed the time stamp: [55].
I am not that familiar with the context, but I don't think it is necessary stalking if valid points are being raised. Since both editors work with the technical aspects of Wikipedia, overlaps should be expected, and I think it would be wrong to look away if there are pressing concerns. Alex ShihTalk01:53, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, Magioladitis' own presentation of evidence here reinforces the impression that there's something wrong with his judgment and needs monitoring: first on his list of complaints above is that BU Rob opposed his reconfirmation as a member of BAG, which you might think was a mean thing for Rob to do until you read the discussion Magioladitis himself links, in which eight out of eight editors commenting shared BU Rob's opinion, citing behavior by Magioladitis which, in the context of a bot operator, is downright frightening. One little passage is especially telling. Someone asked:
Two questions:
Why are you running an unapproved bot from your account to make edits like this?
The questions are unrelated to my BAG nomination. BAG checks mainly the technical part of the story. The question asked here is if have the technical skills and related knowledge to be part of BAG. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:02, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
No, Magioladitis, it's not just your technical skills that are at issue, it's your judgment (and, to be blunt, your ability to communicate in the English language, from my long observation). And Exhibit A is that you apparently think that, in considering you for membership in the Bot Approvals Group (whose members individually are empowered to approve bot tasks), we should simply ignore the apparent fact that, at the very moment of your application, you were running an unapproved bot. That's shocking.
I initially wrote up a long thing refuting what Magioladitis wrote about me stalking, but instead, I'll just refer you to "past me". These claims go back months, and I wrote a very detailed explanation of the interactions I had with Magioladitis in the past. You can find that here. As a brief summary: We interact about the normal amount of times for those editing the same area. I've only ever started a single discussion related to Magioladitis, as I intentionally avoid him whenever possible. I've initiated zero interactions with him since the second ArbCom. Every time I've criticized him, the community has agreed with my criticisms. I think that about sums it up. Now onto the evidence that Magioladitis has been continuously harassing me, as promised:
In April 2017, he started a discussion about one of my bot approvals without even discussing the concern with me, in apparent retaliation for my criticism of an unrelated third-party bot task that was violating the bot policy. (link) The community concluded that I could fix the bug in my task as normal and Magioladitis was warned by a BAG member (Headbomb) that he shouldn't retaliate against me in that manner.
In May 2017, he started another discussion about the same bug in the same bot task, despite me not running that bot task at all in between the two discussions. (link) The section was speedily closed with a warning not to harass me.
During the second ArbCom case, two arbitration clerks had to redact large portions of his evidence section because he made unfounded accusations and personal attacks against me, including the "off-wiki coordination"/email accusation he made above. See here and here.
At the risk of trivializing things, up until this point, we have "run-of-the-mill" incivility, abuse of process to harass, etc. After the second ArbCom case, it was ratcheted up quite a bit to wikihounding me everywhere I go.
In September 2017, he suddenly popped up on my talk page to demand an apology and retraction for a comment I made during the first ArbCom case. I stand by my original comment, which was supported by the findings of facts in the case. See here. This proves Magioladitis was literally going through 9-month-old edits and contributions to find something to hound me about.
In October 2017, Magioladitis removed a PROD I placed on a file (now deleted, so I can't show the diff); File:Seleccionada3.JPG. This was his first edit to the file namespace since August 2017, when he (ironically) accidentally rolled back one of my edits on another random file, showing he was going through my contribs at that time as well ([57]). This is an editor who so infrequently edits the file namespace that if you try to retrieve his last 100 file namespace edits, the site returns an error. A discussion on his talk page made clear he had no legitimate rationale for removing the PROD [58].
I'm philosophically opposed to interaction bans, especially one-sided ones. At this point, I just want his harassment to stop. I think a site ban is appropriate given the history here. Magioladitis has had many last chances. ~ Rob13Talk02:44, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It saddens me to be editing this response right now... I can understand how disheartened and perhaps frustrated or angry that Magioladitis is feeling since the ArbCom case that recently closed, but I can't help but be honest here... I feel that these problematic accusations by Magioladitis are only going to continue until action is taken and we (the community) put a stop to it. We've gone through complaints and discussions on different talk pages, numerous ANI discussions, two ArbCom cases - how far do we allow this to go? When is enough enough? Do these continued and repeated discussions involving Magioladitis' behavior show that perhaps we've reached a point where he's stopped becoming net positive for the project? I'm not sure how to feel... it's just truly sad and disappointing... :-( ~Oshwah~(talk)(contribs)03:07, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Unless there's a serious reason to believe an IBAN would not work, besides any objections anyone personally has to the concept of IBANs, I don't see why we don't try one. Magioladitis and BU Rob13 each claim to want to be left alone. It seems the perfect candidate for an IBAN. So let's do it. If one or the other is the instigator of harassment, then the IBAN will lead us to the culprit far faster than more arbitration, and more empirically than an ANI thread. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 05:52, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, please. It's clear that Rob's replies cause me stress in all cases. I don't even want to have positive comments in my BRFA's from him. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:01, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
If Rob13 is "philosophically opposed to interaction bans", both of them work in the small world of Wikipedia bots, Rob13's actions on BRFAs are to validly point out horrific bot-related misbehavior on the part of Magioladitis, and Magioladitis welcomes the removal of Rob13 from BRFAs, that doesn't seem like a very constructive solution to me. It might be possible if we simultaneously ban Magioladitis from anything bot-related, broadly construed, but otherwise no. —David Eppstein (talk) 06:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite clear that Magioladitis behaviour is now at the boundary of net positive/net negative to the project. The behaviour on-wiki is clearly a net negative for the project but is offset by outreach and technical contributions to the wider Wikimedia project. I support an interaction ban but I'm also not opposed to a straight site ban (of fixed duration - 6 months to 1 year in the first instance). This behaviour cannot be permitted further. Nick (talk) 06:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nick the interaction ban is the first step to take. If this does not work we will have to think of stronger enforcements. But thik interaction ban will work. -- Magioladitis (talk) 06:28, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The information regarding the Melbourne City Council Report and a user called MelbourneStar keeps deleting it without a valid reason, they have also falsely accused me of pasting copyright material.
As User:MelbourneStar has mentioned, you should be discussing it on the talk page of the article. Appearance of a copyright violation is a valid reason for reverting an edit. The revert should not be re-reverted, especially in the face of copyright concerns. On Wikipedia, we cannot copy significant amounts of content directly from outside sources. Hamtechperson04:29, 18 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
!)... --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:07, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
The owner of this account is suspected of abusively using multiple accounts.
Done. This could probably have been done by contacting individual admin though, instead of coming to AN/I. And I am puzzled that you cannot use RFPP without Twinkle. Why? Anyway, thanks for the heads up. Alex ShihTalk 08:36, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
User blocked for that unwarranted attack. And suffice it to say this behaviour reminds me strongly of a particular user who disrupts national invention/discovery categories and casts aspersions as to the racial motivations of editors who revert them. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 20:06, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
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